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Errors in the summary of today's or tomorrow's featured article

The claim that the nuckelavee's name "may be a progenitor of that by which the Devil is sometimes known, Old Nick" has been removed from the article lead, as it isn't entirely accurate (the two phrases may have a common ancestor, but the one wasn't directly derived from the other). The claim should be likewise removed from the TFA blurb. DoctorKubla (talk) 13:40, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, fixed. - Dank (push to talk) 15:13, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

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Errors in the current Did you know...

Ape Escape does not require the Dual Analog Controller, as it is also compatible with the DualShock, which was far more popular, and had already been out for about 18 months by the time Ape Escape came out. Phediuk (talk) 01:13, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources for any of this? IGN says otherwise. Jolly Ω Janner 03:49, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

What do you mean, it "says otherwise"? It outright says "The first PlayStation game to require the DualShock was Ape Escape in 1999." Phediuk (talk) 05:13, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Sorry about that! I got confused between the two terms after looking into it. I guess there aren't any admins lurking tonight. I've changed the article to suit, but I don't have the editing privileges to make the required change on the Main Page. If it's any consolation, the picture used is actually a DualShock. Jolly Ω Janner 05:36, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Corrected now, thank you for bringing this to our attention. Fram (talk) 07:33, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Fram I'm not sure why you pulled it. All that was require was to change Dual Analog Controller to DualShock. The image is of a DualShock controller and I've already amended the article.. You could still stick with the disclaimer at the bottom, though. Jolly Ω Janner 07:36, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Because we for the umpteenth time posted a factual error on the main page for hours. Silently changing it is not good enough. Acknowledging our errors is important. Preventing them is better. Fram (talk) 07:38, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm not suggesting silently changing it. I'm suggesting we change it to the true fact and also post the disclaimer at the bottom. Jolly Ω Janner 07:43, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

That would be overkill (and make the DYK section way too long). The article is still mentioned in the disclaimer. Having it twice in one section is needless clutter. Fram (talk) 07:49, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Okay, but have you considered that the disclaimer it spreading misinformation? Maybe you know more about Playstations than myself, but I had a Dual Analog Controller and used it for all my Playstation games, so I think Ape Escape would use it. My understanding is that Ape Escape was the first game that made use of DualShock's vibration feature. AFAIK you could still play it with the Dual Analog Controller, but just without vibrations. Maybe change the disclaimer to "Ape Escape was not the fist game that required the use of the Dual Analog Controller". Jolly Ω Janner 07:55, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. The correction is merely that Ape Escape does not require a Dual Analog Controller, as the DualShock can also be used (and seems to be the intended controller, since it's the only one mentioned on the back of the case.) It is, however, the first (and perhaps only?) PS1 game that requires analog input, be it from the Dual Analog or the DualShock.. Phediuk (talk) 08:04, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

According to the sources (and your suggested replacement hook and the Ape Escape article at the moment), it required the DualShock, which means that it couldn't use the Dual Analog. Perhaps it worked with the DualAnalog as well (which would have made your suggested replacement hook wrong as well), I tweaked the correction to accept that possibility (even though it is not what the sources say, or the article at the moment). But your suggested disclaimer is a lot worse (if Ape Escape was not the first, then which one was?). Fram (talk) 08:10, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

It can use the Dual Analog controller. You are misinterpreting the source (though it's not very clear). The disclaimer is an improvement, but it's possible people will now think that you could play the game without a controller. AFAIK all PS1 games were compatible with the Dual Analog controller, so there never was a "first" game that only worked with DualShock. Jolly Ω Janner 08:20, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Which only means that your change here was wrong. As for your interpretation of the correction, that seems rather farfetched. 08:26, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

And please indicate how I am misinterpreting the source. "The first PlayStation game to require the DualShock was Ape Escape in 1999." Nowhere does this source indicate or even imply that it could also use the Dual Analog. Fram (talk) 08:29, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

The difference is slight, but it comes down to the words "use of". The original hook said it required the "use of" the Analog Controller, implying that it was the first to use its vibration feature. The IGN article was written in the context of the DualShock controller, not in the context of Ape Escape, so this is probably why they were sloppy in pointing this misunderstanding out. I don't really care enough discuss it much further, since the Main Page does an okay job of clearing it up and hopefully the main contributor to the article can review the issue later. I'm by no means an expert on Playstation, but I do recall using my original Dual Analog Controller to play all my games. Jolly Ω Janner 08:37, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Uh, no, "requiring the use of the DualAnalog" does not imply what you read into it. Remember that the European and US versions of the DualAnalog didn't even have the vibration feature, making your reading of what was implied highly unlikely. Furthermore, what our hook did or didn't imply has nothing to do with whether I am misinterpreting the source or not. You are now claiming that the source was sloppy, not how I was misinterpreting it. Perhaps stick to what is actually verifiable instead of claiming that I spread misinformation (in an edit summary here) or that I misinterpret the source when you can't really support either position and sprout a lot more misinformation in your own replies and suggested replacement hooks. Fram (talk) 08:49, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I distinctly recall that this game required dual analogue controls, in that you were forced to use the twin joysticks for movement and the direction buttons for other functions. It made no distinction between the Dual Analogue Controller and the DualShock in terms of which was required, as the key feature it needed was present on both. This may be a simple case of a user (or source) conflating two similar terms—ie, assuming that "dual analogue controls" = "Dual Analogue Controller". It should be a simple case of rectifying the wording rather than moving once again into babies and bathwater territory. GRAPPLE 08:55, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

In the article, yes. In the DYK section, no. The baby has had its 8 hours in the dirty bathwater, let's at least acknowledge that. It may well be that the source was incorrect (see e.g. this, but the hook did not present the version from the source or the probably correct one, but yet another one which was wrong any way you look at it. Fram (talk) 09:08, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm still concerned by the disclaimer. I found a screenshot of the game's pop-up for the Dual Controller requirement. Stating "the game Ape Escape did not require the Dual Analog Controller" is ambiguous as the game did require some sort of dual analog control. Jolly Ω Janner 09:11, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

After all the above "concerns" you had, I don't really care any longer. If I were you, I would be more concerned with your dismissal of the initial error report where you claimed that the source supported the hook even though it clearly doesn't. Fram (talk) 10:16, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I have removed the "correction" from the main page until we have a consensus that agrees it's the best way to deal with this scenario. Feel free to discuss it at Misplaced Pages talk:Did you know. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:25, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

No idea why you felt the need to do this though. Fram (talk) 10:12, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

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