Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by GraemeL (talk | contribs) at 15:35, 19 June 2006 (→message when editing: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

I am: OUT

• I will reply here unless you ask me to reply somewhere else.
• If I posted something (other than a warning) to your talk page, I probably added it to my watch list. I would prefer replies in the same page as the original post. However, feel free to reply here if you want.

Please click here to leave me a new message.

Archives: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9

how to i use VandalProof

how to i use VandalProof VandalProof

messages on my talk page

Thanks for the note, but I wasn't trying to indent the paragraphs. I tried to set quotes apart from my text by using a single space before the paragraph (since that places the quote in a box). However this prevented my text from wrapping to the page, so I just went with italics instead. --Ryan Wise 15:01, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I see now. Glad you got the formatting sorted out. --GraemeL 15:03, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Yikes

Sorry about that, I hate to trample on other admins that keep up with their protections. Most likely, someone requested it at RFP; I've been pretty lax about pruning through the protected pages lately! · Katefan0 /poll 15:35, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Not a problem. I'd rather somebody went through the list regularly and cleaned it out instead of having pages protected for weeks on end when a few days would have been good enough. --GraemeL 15:38, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Pokeno website link

Sorry Graham, I saw all the other links to comercial sites and assumed it was ok. We are developing our site at the moment and will be incorporating features on pie history, facts and figures, and links to pie related material. If it includes valuable information such as this would there be any objections to posting a link then?86.144.207.225 15:51, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks for stopping when asked. I went through the articles you edited and weeded out all of the other commercial links too. As to your future content, it would all depend on what the content was and whether it added to the information already in the articles. Best idea is to post a request asking for some opinions to the article talk page once you have expanded the content on the site. --GraemeL 15:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Spam links

I have a few articles that are free and infomative, and support the specific topic addressed. I intend to refrain from adding non-reference pages. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.233.99.218 (talk • contribs) .

No, what you are doing is spamming. Please contribute to Misplaced Pages without adding external links. --GraemeL 20:26, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

How about an article about Business-to-Business Lead Generation Tactics? As a reference or external link from "lead generation"? Seems helpful to visitors. If I expand the Misplaced Pages entry and cite the page as a source would that help?

If you are set on using Misplaced Pages to direct traffic to your site, the only thing that is going to happen is that you will end up being blocked. --GraemeL 20:35, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Commercial Links removed.

I would like to ask why commercial links to my Chinese Clothing site were removed and not the others Commercial links.

I can be contacted on the email form in the site mentioned

Ref. See QIPAO. Several Commercial companies added their link to there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.5.163 (talk • contribs)

They were removed because I happened to catch you. There are over 1 million articles and keeping new spam from happening is a huge job without even looking at existing links. --GraemeL 21:48, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I have now removed all commercial links from the articles that you edited. --GraemeL 22:00, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

TheDailyPlate.com

Hi,

Could you please tell me why you reverted the edit for The Daily Plate.com on "calorie"? It offers much more comprehensive data than the other sites listed as external links, and seems to follow the requirements for that section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.59.144 (talk • contribs)

It doesn't add anything useful to the articles it was posted to. --GraemeL 23:25, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your fair Handling of the Chinese Clothing links.

Is there anyway i can contribure to helping stop the spread of spam links in future?

Project Management Tools

Several Misplaced Pages users marked the link to Project Management Tools a favorite in the brief time you allowed it to be listed. And yet you've deleted it. Wiki users seem to find it valuable.

Please reconsider, and let the Wiki population choose whether to access information they find useful. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.4.130.63 (talk • contribs) .

How can you tell if people marked it as a favourite or not? The link is primarily commercial and I consider it spam. Please contribute by adding content, not external links. --GraemeL 18:56, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I can tell it is marked as a favorite when the favicon.ico file is requested. This is logged in the web log of the site. See http://en.wikipedia.org/Favicon The web log also shows the wiki link was the entry point.

Please reconsider - and let the Wiki users decide. They find it valuable.

My own browser displays your favicon on the URL bar and the tab the page is opened in when I view your site and I haven't bookmarked it. Requesting the favicon has nothing to do with the page being added to favourites. --GraemeL 19:13, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Depending on the browser, it DOES indcate the user has made it a favorite.

Here is a page with Tools for Software Engineering. Will you also be deleting these commercial links? Computer-aided software engineering

Weeding through them now. --GraemeL 20:13, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

And please remove these links on the Project management Page... They are all commercial links.

• www.irise.com
• http://www.effectiveprojectmanagement.com/
• http://www.itprojectstoday.com/
• www.auditserve.com

I've removed the two that I broke above. The other two don't seem to be commercial to me. --GraemeL 21:28, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

These are commercial links http://www.projectmanagement.ie/ - note they have clients - doesn't that indicate a commercial firm? http://www.effectiveprojectmanagement.com/ - this site incorporates ads by Google. That is commercial and crass. http://www.itprojectstoday.com/ - this site has a popup ad. Again, a sign of commercialism.

The wiki guidelines on external links state these sites should not be included 1) Sites that primarily exist to sell products or services. 2) Sites with objectionable amounts of advertising The .ie site falls under 1. The other two sites fall under 2. All should be elimininated under the wiki guidelines.

The Ireland site is a professional body for members of the profession in that country and as such, merits inclusion. The guidelines state "objectionable amounts of advertising", which is subjective. In my opinion, both of the other sites provide enough useful information to offset the amount of advertising they contain. --GraemeL 15:21, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Legal FAQ links

Sorry for the repeated posting of the links to our FAQs. My intention was not as spam, but felt that the articles being linked to included good information that were good contributions to the Misplaced Pages articles, and would be useful. Considering the link below mine (Internet Legal Research Group) links directly to an item for sale, I thought that linking to an information page would be acceptable.

Having had a closer look at the site, I was probably too hasty in removing the links. I will not remove them in future, though others may. --GraemeL 19:20, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

eds

lol, it's my first time editing wikipedia so i don't want to go too crazy!

cheers,

russell

Heh, it was my bad reading of the diffs that caused the confusion in the first place. Catching the Amazon link in the text was good. Have fun editing! --GraemeL 20:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Re:Block

Taken care of - thanks --Jay(Reply) 20:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

News

I notice that you removed an item about Pennsylvania elections as "non-international item" but did not remove items about Fiji elections or violence in the Turkish Council of State. Please explain how the Pennsylvania item is not international but the other two are. --M@rēino 22:21, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I've seen both of the other items covered by the BBC. The one you added is pretty much only regional news. --GraemeL 23:19, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Though I did miss the piano story for some reason. That was certainly not international news. Somebody else removed it. --GraemeL 23:20, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

My site is not a real commercial site if you look at it. If you compare my site to the others on the external links page I don't see how those can be legit and mine is not.

Om for Hikers

Why did you remove Om For Hikers under external links? It is no different than the other sites listed under the same section! Om For Hikers is not a commercial site! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darren996 (talk • contribs) .

You are inserting links to different sites across multiple articles. However, all of these sites are obviously operated by the same individual/company. This is spamming. Please contribute content to Misplaced Pages instead of external links. --GraemeL 11:38, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Spam

Why then do you leave the other two links in the database. Assumably then, you are the owner of same, otherwise you'd not permit them.

Databases IafdAdult film database. Eonsex Adult movies and images database.

Hence, If they are still there in two days I can only assume that you are a fraud, or inneffective.

If wikipedia objects, they will have to email me in that case. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xymptlx (talk • contribs) .

The other two sites have been agreed by consensus on the talk page of the article. You are merly trying to promote your own links. Please contribute content to Misplaced Pages instead of adding external links. --GraemeL 11:39, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

What to do with this user?

Hi GraemeL, I've been contributing to the pornography page for a while. Re-organized some of the latter sections so they made more sense, including creating the database section (which the comment above refers to). Had many discussions with editors to make sure that those two links were relevant. My question is this: I'm noticing Xymptlx vandalizing the databases section regularly. Can you tell me what action I can help take against this? Still kinda learning the ropes here. Thanks, Coolmojito 09:11, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

If commercial links are added to the article, remove them and warn the user by adding {{subst:spam1}} --~~~~ to their talk page. If they continue to add the links, use {{spam2}} and {{spam3}}. If they continue after three warnings, you can ask to have them blocked by posting to WP:AIV. Keep up the good work. --GraemeL 11:42, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, GraemeL. Will do. Best, Coolmojito 07:35, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Dia Mirza

Hello, GraemeL, I noticed your contributions on the Diya Mirza article. Several other editors and myself have some problmes over there, since an anon removes the changes that have been, at least by the three of us, User:Zora, User:Pa7 and myself, accepted. So I'm asking you if you could protect the page, so non-logged-in people cannot change it. Maybe the vandal adopts a user name and we can talk properly to him/her. Best regards, --Plumcouch 11:08, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

The level of vandalism is too low to justify protecting the article at the moment. I've added the article to my watchlist to keep an eye on it for a while. If the amount of vandalism increases, I'll protect the article for a while. --GraemeL 11:45, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello Mr.Graemel.. It is not me but the Zora & other team have been vandalising the diamirza article. i've been adding information to the article and they have been removing persistently. i've no ,Malicious intent' or interest in other articles of wikipedia or your petty battles. i've added a lot of information instead of keeping it a stub. i am not interested in taking the trouble to register and fight out the differences with the other INDIAN CINEMA ' dedicated editors.

All the information i've added since i found the article is relevant, encyclopedic and worth knowing for any laymen. The 'vandal' (as some one put it)i.e me is again not interested in registering in Misplaced Pages. I don't understand what the article needs protection from? May be from further information. It is improper to accuse me of Vandalism' when urself and others are not interested in any 'dialogue' and joined together to 'remove' information i 've added after hardwork. It is upto u whether u want to be dictators' of Misplaced Pages because u have got the 'powers' and 'resources' to endlessly edit, leaving nothing for any other editor and therby defeating the very purpose of 'free to all edit' policy of Misplaced Pages. I am not going to make essays on this issue anymore. It is upto whether U respect others POV or bundle them into 'Vandals' and consolidate your position and control over certain parts of the WP.

....Anon accused of Vandalism on Diamirza article.

Well, every time you edit the article, you remove all of the category and interwiki links at the bottom of the page, so iy looks like simple vandalism. Please discuss your changes with the other users on the talk page. I will unprotect the article when all parties can come to some sort of an agreement. --GraemeL 16:38, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Well i would say u have been removing the chunk of information i have been adding for long. i donot know how to talk to others. U better come in and arrange whatever u want to sort out with me and other Vandals....Anon

DiaMirza

Please explain Your actions..more clearly Graemel...the protector of the Diamirza article. I don't understand your move. If don't like editing by others why can't u keep it locked forever instead of allowing innocent Victims like me to edit it in good faith thinking the information i added would be retained and not Vandalised by others by the application of your fairness and judgement. You lock it..a person like me would no longer bother it..true. But whats the point in inviting others to edit and contribute when a person invested with 'powers to lock and unlock' articles at his discretion can decide the direction of the article. 'Free editing' doesn't amount to Vandalism..i agree but that 'locking' the article or banning the user for some time or forever wouldn't solve the problem. Involve yourself..look into the matter, hISTORY, what has been added and what is been removed,why it is being subjected frequent edits by others, explain your action supported by 'reason',giving warning to the editors in dispute before locking.

These are minimum requirements of 'fair play' i expect from a Wikipedian. or otherwise i don't see anything other than 'anarchy' and 'excesses' by the few privileged admns or moderators or frequent editors who have got the power and time to endlessley vandal an article. I hope u take it in the proper perspective and not get agitated, or frustated and ban me because u don't like others preaching you. I will be watching for your moves. Anon..accused of Vandalism of DiaMirza article.

Please post your arguments for the changes on the article talk page and discuss them with the other users. I don't have any views on this article and was only responding to a request posted to one of the admin pages asking for help with vandalism. The article will not remain protected for more than a few days, but there is potential for it to be protected for a much shorter time if you attent to resolve things with the other editors of the article. --GraemeL 17:13, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Request To Administrator If you responded to some request posted by others and not aware of facts then please respond to my request now to unlock and restore the article as it is edited by me. If there is no 'Mechanism' for solving this issue why don't you mediate here instead simply responding to others complaint unaware of facts. There is no point making arguments and 'counter arguments' in the discussion page unless there is a propsect of settlement. i invite you to mediate the issue. Ask the others Zora,Plum..something to post their arguments why they have been 'Vandals' of my posts. Have they got any 'special privileges' to only retain their POV and presentation or do they want even others to supply and edit information. I don't want unsolicited invitation of 'Zora' to contribute to 'Indian Cinema Project'.(If only they allow me to contribute to dia mirza article).

I request you the administrator and protector of Diamirza article to be 'proactive' and act to mediate the dispute between the two alleged 'Vandals', to resolve the issue, to unlock the article. ..Anon..alleged Vandal of Dia Mirza article.

SavvyMiss

Oops! Sorry - didn't understand, and didn't know how to read messages! I get it now! Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Missshmu (talk • contribs) .

Ah, ok. I'll go remove some of the warnings from your talk page then. --GraemeL 16:39, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to go back and delete those multiple links - will that pull my page off the delete page?

I think I have already removed all of the external links you added. It won't get your page removed from AFD, but you're welcome to argue for the article to be kept on the deletion discussion. Just because you created the article doesn't stop you from trying to have it kept. If you can supply some indenendent press references talking about your site, that would probably help your case. Add any references to the article and note that fact on the AFD page. If you can supply them, I will consider withdrawing the deletion request. --GraemeL 16:47, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, you probably want to read WP:WEB as I cited it when putting the article up for deletion. --GraemeL 16:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Free jpeizer - Greentealovers information

GraemeL,

I provided most of the information on the green tea page related to Japanese Green tea, I also wrote extensively on health benefits, and the tea ceremony providing information directly from my site to Misplaced Pages. Therefore a REFERENCE to my site where I added information to Misplaced Pages as a value-add to it is totally valid.

I would also indicate to you that your health benefits citation on that page is to WHOLE FOODS -- a conglomerate food retailer which discusses more than green tea in its article. Greentealovers is dedicated to ONLY healthy teas and provides a wealth of information on its site.

The Tea ceremony page also has a reference to the TEA MUSE which sells items on the page referenced. It seem to me there is a double standard going on here here. I provided lots of information originally to insure the Wiki information on Green tea was correct and full -- and a reference to the information provided should be valid.

Adding links to your own site is against Misplaced Pages guidelines. The site is primarily an online shop and not a reliable source as a reference. Please stop adding links to it, or you will end up being blocked. I'm not particularly interested in what else is being used as a reference, I caught you spamming your own site, not whoever added the other links. --GraemeL 18:45, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Greentealovers

Graeme,

Instead of simply removing my references without reading I suggest you check the pages I have been referencing and compare them to the information on Japanese green tea on the green tea page. They are word for word from my site and have been so for some time. So if you don't allow the reference we are going to also have to delete that information from the Green Tea page as well because I am not going to allow any of it to be used unless my site gets the appropriate reference for its use.

I don't know who you are in the Misplaced Pages Hierarchy but we are going to need to appeal on to a higher authority on other issues as well. Your reference in the Health Section is TO A RETAIL VENDOR - WHOLE FOODS -- their information on the health effects of green tea is no more valid than mine by your definition - except that I provide dthat Information to wikipedia first.

JP

If the text is word for word from your site, then please remove it. It is a copyright violoation, unless you realease it under the GFDL. The other references are not particularly any of my concern. I'm patrolling recent changes, I caught you spamming references to your own site and warned you about it. --GraemeL 19:01, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Graeme,

Its unfortunate we've gone to defcon 4 over providing an appropriate reference for information the Misplaced Pages green tea page has been carrying from my site for months -- and unless we step back from this cliff the wikipedia community will be the poorer for it. I don;t understand the information validity of my site is only now being called into question when the green tea reference page of wikipedia has been carrying that information for months and none of you "Green tea experts" has questioned it. The reason is because the information I provided is in fact quite valid and correct.

Before you do any blocking we'll need to talk to your superiors and ask them why they allow information to be added to wikipedia with the appropriate references and then drop the references but not the data, because that is what was done and that *DOES* constitute a copyright violation. Misplaced Pages had the permission from Greentealovers to use the green tea information it provided as long as the site was appropriately referenced as having provided it - That understanding existed for months when I worked with IATESQUIRREL to develop both the Green Tea and other related sections providing text, images, etc... Now it seems the reference has been arbitraily removed and not allowed.

So i will ask you once more if you will allow the appropriate reference of my site on the green tea page. If you do not, i will pull all information related to green tea referenced directly from my site as well as the formatting I originally provided - And then i will tell the Misplaced Pages higher ups exactly why i did it and who was responsible for making it happen.

When this is done, I also expect the Wholefoods reference in Health benefits to be removed as well -- By your definition it violates the Advertising policy.

I await your response before evicerating the Green Tea page of the relevant data its been carrying for months simply because of a policy that does not allow the appropriate referencing of my site for providing it, when on the same page a major retailer is allowed as a link.

RGDS

JP

You seem to think that you need some sort of quid pro quo for contributing to Misplaced Pages. If we want you to contribute, we need to link to your site in return. This is not the case. You should either contribute to the project freely or not at all. I am not calling the quality of your site into question, just stating that it does not qualify as what policy terms as a reliable reference source. There are over 1 million articles in the project and nobody has the time to police each and every reference or external link. I happened to catch you using Misplaced Pages to link to your own site and not whoever added the other reference. --GraemeL 19:36, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Graeme,

What I think is that we need a mediator on this.

1) when you add word for word data to a wikipedia topic to explain it appropriately to users and work with another wikipedian (IATESQUIRREL) to do so, its completely approriate to provide a reference to the site that has provided that information -- And in fact, that is the tradition of authorship that has been followed in this country and others for a century. I also beleive that when both the data and the reference have existed in the public space (wikipedia) for months it means that both the topic and the reference has been implictely accepted. When the reference is inadvertantly dropped and the information kept THAT IS THE PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO BE RECTIFIED -- not punishing the original author for providing both the data and the appropriate citation.

2) it is innapropriate to deride one site for a policy violation while allowing another on the same page to stay. How can you validly explain designating Wholefoods a realiable source on GREEN TEA HEALTH BENEFITS and Greentealovers an invalid source? -- particularly when Misplaced Pages has been carrying Greentealovers information explaining green tea on its pages for months?

I find your assertions that you somehow "caught" me doing anything innappropiate highly problemmatic. Before reverse engineering the green tea page are you up for mediation?

RGDS JP

No need to go as far as mediation. Post something to the talk page of the article and I'll abide by what other contributors think. --GraemeL 19:57, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Graeme,

I am willing to abide by what people think as well, but the question I have for you is this: It will take time for people to weigh in. the fact is my data and my reference were up for months. Now the data is still up but the reference is gone. I'd like to maintain both the reference and the data on the site until a resolution is reached. The alternative is to pull both, but I am not crazy about doing that or the extra work in readding the data later its involves literally almost the entire section on Japanese green tea. If you allow one reference on the green tea page related to the specific page the data came from until resolution of the issue, we can proceed with the solution you mention and I will post the conversation on the discussion page.

RGDS

JP

OK, go ahead and do that. I'll remove my warnings from your talk page as well. --GraemeL 20:12, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Graeme,

Thanks - its much appreciated. I added the conversation to the discussion page. Please edit as you feel appropriate. Your viewpoint should be avalable and considered.

RGDS

JP

Blocking of 217.169.129.33

Dear GraemeL, It was right of you to block IP: 217.169.129.33, but you ought to only have use that as a final resort.

Have they attacked within the past hour? is a question you should ask yourself. This IP address is, as you should have noticed, from a school and as I have explained about a million times, this is the IP address of 3 campuses simultanioesly, as they are all linked to the same server. So, from the outside world, you see 217.169.129.33, when this could be narrowed down to individual campuses, but sadly this cannot happen.

I, as a student of this school, I am trying everything I can to hunt down who was online at these moments (of vandalism), and bring them to justice. I will be talking with my campus's Network Asministrator and I hope to be able to see if anyone had vandalised Misplaced Pages at those particular moments in time.

I ask you to unblock 217.169.129.33 and allow our school foundation to be able to edit the world's best encyclopedia,

Jean-Paul 19:31, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Unblocked. Sorry for the inconvenience. --GraemeL 19:40, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Stash Tea

Are my changes what you were looking for.

Stash Tea is stocked in all three of America's main three supermarkets (Albertsons, Kroger, Safeway) under the supermarket chains' various names (Ralphs, Vons, etc.)

I just enjoy tea, they're private, I know nobody there, I don't work for them. But they are one of the world's major tea companies.

I thought they might be, that's why I left you a note rather than just removing the article. Them being private means you can't use a stock listing to establish notability, but you should be able to find press links to press releases. WP:CORP says "This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, television documentaries, and published reports by consumer watchdog organizations". Shouldn't be too hard for you to find. --GraemeL 21:01, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Lock Diamriza article

This is Anon who requested to unlock the article. If u r not interested in unlocking it please lock it to all registered users as well..thereby not giving unfair advantage to the Plumcouch and others who have been editing freely...Anon alleged Vandal of Diamirza.com

Squid proxy

Thanks for checking. Mak (talk) 23:47, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Muscular dystrophy

Hi GraemeL, I had added an external link to the article which pointed to a community building initiative in India for Muscular dystrophy. But you deleted that. I am sure you have a reason behind it as keeping Vandalism off a "wiki" is huge responsibility. Would you be kind enough to clarify as this link was not a link to anything commercial. It is an initiative by parents of a kid in India who is suffering and since there is no community in India. I guess it is humanitarian to keep the link here for increased visibility. But again our thoughts may differ and I would like to understand how "wikipedia" works.

Regards Deep

The link was certainly not commercial. Unfortunatly there are hundreds of sites beloning to small support groups and allowing a few of them just leads to more being added and articles such as this one end up with dozens of links. I'm posting a welcome message to your talk page that contains links to some Misplaced Pages pages containing guidelines and policies. This should help you get acquainted with Misplaced Pages. --GraemeL 12:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

i have a question!

How can we delete users in wiki. i work in a company and we have internal wiki. I have admin rights.

People create multiple users and use just one! Is there a way to get rid of users that are not being used at all?

Kindly let me know.

Thanks!

Sorry, I'm not involved in the maintenance of the Mediawikisoftware and don't know the answer to that. I'm not even sure where the best place to ask would be. You might try Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical). --GraemeL 15:19, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Dia Mirza (again)

Hello, GraemeL, someone added the endorsements again after a reeeeeally long debate - and another user (or the same, not sure?) questions IMDb as a source and posed some really ridiculous questions. To be frank: I don't know what to do anymore. I really tried to talk to them, but apparantly they choose not to listen or forget things very fast. I have no idea what to say anymore. Every piece of advice is more than appreciated. Best regards, --Plumcouch 15:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

There are only two things I can think of to help at the moment. Ask for more help on the Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Indian cinema page to try and involve more regular contributors who understand the style and content guidelines. Secondly, you could open an RfC, also with the intention of involving more regulars. I can see why you're getting frustrated, you're making all the efforts to bring the article up to a reasonable level of quality and trying your best to drag the anon into the discussions.

The only other thing I can think of to do would be to leave the article for a while and let them lose interest. Then come back at some point in the future and edit things back to the usual content and style for biography articles.

At least the anon on the 82. addresses seems to be reasonable. I'm going away for the weekend tomorrow, so I won't be around for a few days. I'll keep an eye on things until I leave and make a decision on whether or not semi-protection is justified again before I go.

Don't lose heart and thanks for trying your best with this article. --GraemeL 16:03, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello, GraemeL,

I asked some of my fellow editors to help me - if this isn't going to work, I'll ask RfC for help and if even *that* isn't going to work, I'll heed your advice and leave the article alone. Thanks for helping me and for the encouraging words. Have a nice weekend, best wishes, --Plumcouch 17:17, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Unknown

Sorry, but it is not a commercial links, no money is been made from it, please check your past discuss on the same topic, the page was built for wikipedia some time back , please do me a favour and go thru past discussion on the same topic.. Notice the other links on the same section all are commercial link... with even good and other links ad to it. And the links go back more than 4 years on the same page, please check your record.. Day1110. I research owns a commerical link, with was place on it and was remove, i guess may be rival or other personal issue.. So he decided to use wiki as a channel to fight back.. i guess .. Thank you very much sir.. have a best day.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.195.84.5 (talk • contribs) .

Can you point me to an article? This is your only edit from that IP address. --GraemeL 16:40, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

External links

Hello, I am very sorry about that. My point was to inform readers about articles and reviews that might be interesting for them. Our site offer also information that is free for all and I tried to add links only to External links of relevant topics (somewhere there was even a note above External links that informed about that this section may include commercial links). So, probably I misinterpreted the purpose of these sections, I am sorry.

No problem. Thanks for understanding. If you read the links in the message I posted to your talk page, you'll get some idea of the problems we have keeping external links under control. --GraemeL 17:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Removal of my link that I posted?

Hello,

Today i posted my wardriving dedicated site on wikipedia in the wardriving page. Later on, I saw that my link had been deleted. I find that a great shame, as my site is not even making any money, and It took my probably over 200hours to make. I built it for people who are interested in wardriving to be able to read articals and tutorials that I have written on the subject. In my opinion it is the best wardriving site on the internet so why cant it have a link?

So can I please put my site back on the list?

email removed

Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.80.140.147 (talk • contribs) .

Sorry, but linking to your own sites and inserting the same link into many articles is nothing more than spamming to promote your site. You even claimed in the link text that the site is new. Misplaced Pages is not a medium that you can use for promoting your sites. Please contribute content, not external links. --GraemeL 17:53, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Re: Shouldn't you be studying?

Thanks, much appreciated =] — FireFox (U T C) 18:56, 19 May '06

Casino Night

Why do you leave the other "commercial link" up then? And also, Monte Carlo Nights is a Flag Ship casino party company. I think it is neccesary that people get a chance to see what it looks like.

I beileve you are being very unfair on this one.

Sorry, I simply didn't realize that the other one was a commercial link. I've removed it now. --GraemeL 19:33, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Algarve

The Algarve page has several links promoting commercial websites and services, such as:

• A complete Guide
• Remexido.web.pt
• Algarve tourist information
• Algarve Portal
• Vale Do Lobo
• - The Portugal News online
• Lagos-Luz-Sagres.com
• portimao.com

My websites are relevant to the Algarve. They are not official websites, but are related to tourism (like these ones above). What this links have that mine don't? Why can we get to an agreement so I can place at least one link per page? I'm not vandalizing the page and really don't wan't to continue fighting. It's simply not fare to see my links removed while other links promoting commercial websites and services stay.

If you agree with my point, please place the following links:

• Algarve page: www.algarve-carhire.net Algarve Car Hire
• Portugal page: www.portugal-car-hire.net Car Hire Portugal

Regards, Marcio

I did request that somebody look at the links by putting a tag above them. sonce nobody has done it. I have cleaned them up myself. --GraemeL 19:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!

Hi! I wanted to thank you for your help on the BI article. I have spent a lot of time on it, and made some recent compromises, to appease Rob. However, he still wants to delete all reference to anything that opposes his view on this. On another site, he tried to link to his personal website, until other editors warned him to stop. It's a good thing that Wikopedia is open source, and not confined to one author's opinion. Again, thank you. It has been a daily job to correct vandalism.

I did not know that Scots eat porridge with salt. My ancestry is Scottish (my grandfather was named Charles Stewart), but my family has long been 'Americanized'. I eat oatmeal with milk and sugar. Or rather, splenda.jgwlaw 21:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I've seen the work going on to reformat the article on a sub page. Anons chopping out sections of correctly cited text without comment is pretty much always going to be viewed as vandalism. --GraemeL 21:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Be adventurious and give it a try with salt one day. It's totally different. You may not like it, but at least you'll have tried it. ;-) --GraemeL 21:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll try (almost) anything once.  ;-) jgwlaw 22:34, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I could use your help. The same editor (Droliver) that is Anon is still deleting and making changes without discussion, as required by a consensus of editors. What can we do about this? MollyBloom 02:14, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

New to wiki

Is my website LEDmonthly really a spam site?

I had a link in the past, and recently you are not allowing it.

RE: GCSEs

Yeah, like that's going to happen. Thanks anyway :P. --Celestianpower 12:22, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

Please do not remove RFCs. It is considered vandalism. 72.152.176.7 14:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

You've already been warned about trolling and resurrecting a closed RfC. If you continue with these actions, you will be blocked from editing. --GraemeL 14:41, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't trolling, and nobody ever even discussed the RFC. Curps blocked me for a test. I haven't been warned. And I haven't been trolling.

72.152.176.7 15:49, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Adding spurious warnings seems pretty trollsome to me. Mak (talk) 17:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Here we go again*: Dia Mirza *sigh*

Dear, GraemeL, this is probably the last time I'm bothering you - because this isn't going to work, I'm gonna ask at the RfC for help. I ask several fellow editors from the Indian Cinema Project for help, but so far, no one of them has shown up. If you check the last three to four comments on the end of the discussion page, you'll get a good idea what is going on - it's really not much to read, but speaks volumes. Without responding to my really polite comments on the problem (the endorsement thing among other things ... you know), they just added everything back again. Maybe I'm the only person on the Dia Mirza page at the moment, who thinks this way, but this is not the way things should be done: just ignore everything and go back to the debated original version. I made several suggestions what they can do if they want to change things, but they don't react - they haven't even adopted a user name. They seem to hold admins in a higher regard, than usual users - you can see that by asking "who the highest ranking user on this page is". Maybe you can try to talk a last time to them - if it's not gonna work, I'll go to RfC. Thanks for your patience and everything else you did on that case, best regards, --Plumcouch 17:58, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

A smile for you

Randy Johnston has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk pages. Happy editing!

Web Template (an interesting take on link spam?)

I find the recent edits by GraemeL to the article "Web Template" be somewhat troubling. I have added the link "Free Layouts.com (http://www.freelayouts.com) to "open source templates" section of this article a number of times. Looking through the history of the page, it was there even beforehand, but eventually got removed (why, I do not know). However, each time I re-add it, GraemeL reverts this edit. My website, Free Layouts.com, offers over 700 web templates free for download (with no catch whatsoever). The website does not have popups (it never has), and it has two spots, clearled labeled for advertisements. These advertisements pay for the close to terabyte bandwidth fees my site pays each month to offer these free layouts. I do not, under any circumstances, sell templates from this website.

The other websites listed in this section use the same exact advertising platform (Google Ads) more specifically: http://www.oswd.org/ - Also uses Google Ads http://openwebdesign.org/ - Also uses Google Ads

Furthermore, a recent website has been added to this page, whose edit GraemeL has not reverted. I added my website again after this website, but my edit was reverted and his was not. The website is: Freeprotemplates.com

Now, freeprotemplates.com forwards to TemplateMonster.com (at least in this article link), which offers absolutely no free web templates. All of their templates are for a fee, and therefore it should not be included in this section whatsoever. Yet it appears as though GraemeL did not pay any attention to this website, and simply saw my free website and removed it.

I do not know what standards GraemeL considers for 'free and "open-source" source', but removing links from a free template provider and not bothering to remove what is clearly an advertisement for a pay-for-template service is, as I said, somewhat troubling. I applaud him, though, in ignoring what is clearly link spam, and going straight for the free resources in his reversions.

If trying to link my own website that offers over 700 free website templates in a clutter-free atmosphere to an article on "Web Templates" is 'senseless link spam' then I don't know what isn't.

I caught you, I didn't catch the others. There are thousands of free web template sites out there and we cannot link to them all. Please contribute content, not external links to Misplaced Pages. --GraemeL 22:05, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Caught me? Don't throw canned responses at me. Misplaced Pages supports external links, as given by their external link policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/WP:EL#What_should_be_linked_to), specifically "What should be linked to": Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as textbooks or reviews. I'd say 700+ templates are resourceful, and would be quite a far stretch to include in one article (besides, it goes against the Misplaced Pages vision). Your only response is to can the entire section. Way to go. And by the way, external links ARE content. I am contributing content. You are removing it. You don't enforce Misplaced Pages policy, you enforce your own biases against resourceful websites. I can't find anything in Wikipeda policy that supports your agenda. Another thing, there are probably 100,000 websites on any given topic, so the mere fact that there are more pages on the internet than a single article can link to would pretty much apply to any external link section, wouldn't it?

Oh, and I see you reverted my website again, but not the pay-for-template website. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you did that before having read my tirade. --FLCom

BI Article

You wrote to Oliver:
Removing cited text
I see you're back at removing cited text from the same article again. Please discuss such changes on the article talk page and get the input of other editors before making them. If you continue to remove other people's hard work that is properly cited, you will only end up being blocked again. --GraemeL (talk) 17:23, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Would you please take a look at the BI article again? Oliver (who is also the anon) is still deleting, without discussion on the article talk page. After your reverts, he changed it again, and again without discussion. I reverted it back, but this is a daily problem. Thanks. MollyBloom 01:55, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Commercial Links

GrameL - I left a very useful link on the Futures Contract page that goes above and beyond what is contained on that page. -- http://www.unitedfutures.com/education.htm Basic Futures Trading & Option Trading Education

All the links still on the Futures Contract page under data are commercial links :

-Daily futures and options settlement prices with margin requirements and contract specs -Futures Quotes & Charts & Option Prices -Futures Contract Specifications

The educational material I was providing goes beyond the scope of the futures contract page. It is much more helpful than what is on the current pages. It gives detailed examples of how futures and futures options work as well as a detailed technical glossary of terms in the futures market.

United Futures education link has been around for about 10 years. The oxford futures site is a relatively new brokerage firm and a commercial site and does not provide very much helpful information. Who is it to decide some commercial links stay and what commercial links go? Seems unfair to me, especially since the page we put on was much more informative and helpful to people. Isn't that what wiki is about?

EricTrader 21:59, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I happened to catch you adding the links, not the others. There are over 1 million articles in the wiki and it's enough of a job stopping new spam without even looking back to weed out older stuff. You have already been told that adding links to your own site is not acceptable. Please contribute content to Misplaced Pages instead of external links. --GraemeL 22:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

It does not make sense to not allow the educational material. I was providing goes beyond the scope of the futures contract page. Isn't that the policy of wiki?

So should I delete the other pure commerical sites on the futures contract page?

Either delete them or add {{Cleanup-spam}} at the start of the section. --GraemeL 22:14, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

You don't agree that the education link I was trying to add goes above and beyond what can be contained in that specific page? I though wiki states not to add links unless it goes above and beyond what can be explained on the page, I think it is the best link that would be on that page? Does it not make since to add it? I am trying look at it as something that would truly benefit people.

Adding links to your own site is not acceptable. --GraemeL 22:23, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Can you please provide documentation of Misplaced Pages's policy stating such? I've read their external link policy and it says no such thing. Please do not come up with your own policies regarding external links. Also, if what you said is in fact Misplaced Pages policy, you deleted it without knowing whether or not the owner itself added their link, so its essentially a moot point. Advise that you look at Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc--FLcom 02:02, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

From WP:EL Links normally to avoid: "A website that you own or maintain (unless it is the official site of the subject of the article). If it is relevant and informative, mention it as a possible link on the talk page and wait for someone else to include it, or include the information directly in the article". --GraemeL 11:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Flcom. I am not the owner of the website. Can you tell me when I delete the other corporate sites, they reappear by user HU12 ?? It is obvious this editor has his own agenda in promoting commercial sites. If I cant add an educational page from a well respected leader in this field, why can the other corporate sites reamin? Maybe you can remove the other corporate sites on the 'futures contract' page GraemeL? They just get re-added when I remove them. Seems like half the people here have their own aganda and corporate links to add. ??? My additional link was by far the most useful educational site of all. Again I ask you to look at it more closely, and tell me what you think. The page I was adding goes above and beyond the scope of the futures contract article posted here. Too much information to be put directly on the page. This is the exact wikipedia policy and reason I was adding the page.

I've removed the two links that HU12 re-added after you deleted them. If he adds them again, I'll take it to the article talk page. --GraemeL 11:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

GraemeL This spammer tried the same strawman arguments with me ], yet I'm supprised he hasn't claimed you have an adgenda too. LOL... sadly, So far EricTrader has been spamming wiki by appearing under 10 different IP's to spam the same link a total number of 18 times with absolutely NO Contributions other than the Links. He'll keep coming back, SEO Spammers always do. (he even got a link on your talk page).. any way..Here's the history:

• 69.222.252.53
  • spam
  • spam
  • spam
• 69.209.208.125
  • vandalized content
• Oblonej
  • spam
  • spam
• UFgirl
  • spam
  • spam
  • spam
• Berettachick
  • spam
• 67.162.80.174
  • spam
• 69.209.230.33
  • spam
  • spam
• 67.162.7.86
  • vandalized content
  • vandalized content
• 69.209.224.54
  • spam
  • spam
• 69.209.225.126
  • vandalized content

As a contributor to the article in question and member of , is their any way for Administrator intervention against this individual due to the excessive vandalism to wiki. Also could you prevent anonymous editing for the article as well, obviously we are being played the fool by an SEO. Hu12 13:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'm aware of the straw man argument, but I've been very close to removing the two links I took out this morning in the past and his comment moved me to take action on it. Now that this project is configured to add nofollow directions to all links outside of the main namespace, there isn't much harm to him having links on this page. To this point, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to blocking those involved. If I do see somebody hopping IPs and spamming the same site from different location, I do treat them as a single incident and start the new warnings at the level above the one issued to the previous IP. I also check for open proxies if IP hopping starts. Finance related terms are pretty high cost adwords and we're always going to see spam attempts as long as they remain so. As to semi-protecting the page, I don't see the level of spam as being enough to justify it. You might ask at WP:RFPP, but I think that other admins will feel the same as I do.

I never spammed the page. I didn't realize I was not logged in when I edited the page to include much better educational links then what are on there. The quote link that STILL remains was added by me, so it looks like you deem it as a good contribution. Sounds like HU12 is mad because he can't add his own personal agenda SEO related corporate links anymore. HU12 has re-added more links than me, so if anyone SPAMMED the pages its him, not I. How he got admin rights I have no idea. Of the 2 links I added for good contribution 1 remains. Who was spoamming HU12 ? Why do you try to keep more corporate links with no good content of your liking but not consider that spamming? Your amazing. Putting emotion aside, I do believe the person you want to monitor is HU12.

GraemeL, It had become practice for this individual to vandalize after his links were removed, thus my last revert. I'll remove the data section to deter further link attempts, and per WP:EL, most related information and quotes can be found at the exchange sites in the section above it. Thank you for your attention in this matter.

sigh..."The quote link that STILL remains was added by me" ..Looks like YOU replaced someone elses link with you own... Hu12 14:30, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Up to you on the data section. It does seem to attract spam, but that might just go to the main EL section if the data one gets the chop. The remaining link seems to me to be worthy of keeping. Also, don't worry about his accusations above, you've made lots of useful contributions to the article. Adding some links during those is nothing to worry about. It's those who only have the objective of getting their sites linked from WP without contributing anything worthwhile that are the problem. --GraemeL 15:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Thats funny. The only thing i EVER did to the page was add 2 links - one educational, one for people to get very easy to use quotes, all in one place. Never did any vandalizing at all. Of the 2 links I added, one still exists. How did I ever vandalize anything. Too bad, the educational link I added would of actually HELPED people. It was very comprehensive and above the scope of the article.

GrameL, all I ask you is to take a much closer look at the history. Take a look at the April 7, 2006 13:32 Edit - Who is putting back in their own commercial sites?

LOL..and that closer look will show you Vandalized the article content after your link was removed under ip 67.162.7.86,(its all in your history above), so It was reverted. Interestingly enough the source of information on your education page is from the National Futures Association, and the your Quote link a was a "framed" page of Barchart. Both sites exist on the page currently. If you truly wanted to HELP people, as you claim, you would have linked directly to the sources, THEY deserve the credit not you. Hu12 17:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Some parts of the education page are from the NFA site. Not all. There is additional very good educational content any person interested in futures would want to read. And the framed page you are talking about is under agreement from them and not suppose to be used outside of the frame. But whatever. Im done arguing. The links i added were 5x better than what was on there. Maybe you can slip back in your oxford and trading charts in a few months.

GrameL, I deleted the corporate links on the 'Trading Places' movie link and the 'Commodity Markets' page. HU12 had posted more links to oxford futures, the company he promotes. Please keep an eye on this page as well. Im glad I can help get rid of the SEO spam

If you check the date of his edit, it was before all of the discussion above took place. --GraemeL 19:17, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I just stated they were corporate links he had added that should not be there?

Strawman Says... "If its not your link there should be no links" ...LOL. Anyway, GrameL I've set up the Commodity markets data section the same as the first article per your suggestion above in order attract spam away from the main content section. Oh and for 69.209.197.58,or who ever you are today, If you think in some childish way by continuing this patterned practice of vandalizing content when your upset is helping, you'd be wrong. Its obvious what your doing, You editing any content on wikipedia at this point is highly suspect.Hu12 00:34, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Suspect? The ONLY thing I did was remove your 2 corporate links? How is this suspect? Just helping out.

well, i got along with my mom. actually i think she's the best. dad wasn't always so good, but i love him too. there was the thing with the cats. i don't worry about that so much now but when i was yo

Edit summaries? I didn't think people read them. Marskell 22:01, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

LOL ;-) --GraemeL 22:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I saw this summary in the recent changes list, so I had to come over and see what it was about. Nice! ~Mr Inky · (T @ C) 23:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

user:TheMadTim

This banned puppetmaster may have many more puppets: I would be suspicious that these are more sockpuppets.

• user:61.38.53.212
• user:211.48.37.30
• user:82.201.176.90
• user:218.48.229.77
• user:DoctorHooDoo
• user:59.20.37.36
• user:59.4.230.99

--Karatekid7 23:43, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

And here was I not even aware that he'd been blocked. Thanks. --GraemeL 23:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I blocked the bottom one as an open proxy. The others are all listed on multiple spam blacklist. They are probably compromised boxes as well, but I couldn't get them to proxy for me. --GraemeL 23:59, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks I also left a message for user:Mackensen as he originally blocked TheMadTim and all his puppets, the guy has been reverting everything I do and even puts warning on my talk page from an IP address saying that I am breaking wikipedia policy and I will be banned. When you know too much about one editor and are very familiar with wikipedia policy, the alarm bells start ringing. --Karatekid7 00:08, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

user:StanTheMan is another contender to add to the collection. --Karatekid7 15:58, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Explanation requested for deletion

Hi Graeme - I would be grateful if you could explain why you deleted the link I had added today, to the Corporate Social Responsibility page. Thanks, Sagax.

All of the links you added were specifically about a single company. The site may be relevant in the article about that company, but it is not relevant to the articles discussing the issues in general. --GraemeL 11:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Link removed from "Massage" page

I'd like to know why you removed the external link to the page about Massage Laws. There are currently six links under external links on the Massage page:

• 2 are for massage associations that are already specifically mentioned in the section entitled Associations about 4 inches of text above the external links section (I'm sugessting that these links are redundant);
• 1 is a link called "Massage Therapy Articles" which lead to someone's personal blog and is hardly definitive or thorough info;
• 1 is purportedly to a site about the history of Thai massage, which is true, but it is also a commercial clinic site;
• 1 is for a page called "Politics of Massage," which is there, but the site is also a school finding directory service;
• 1 is for a page called "Benefits of Massage," which is there, but that is a site run by the ABMP therapists' association.

My link, which you removed, was to a page about massage laws on a non-commercial site; furthermore, the site is not affiliated with any associations or clinics (if you can find an affiliation, my apologies, but I couldn't find any). The link lead to an objective discussion about massage laws with actual quotes from legal rulings and links to useful massage law information.

How was this page more or less offensive than the six that were already there? I would like to know if the criteria you applied to removing my link might also apply to the links you left intact.

Calgarian 02:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I removed the site because I thought it contained too much advertising which outweighed the value that the content may add to the article. I will go through all of the other links and review them. --GraemeL 11:34, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Obviously there are no objective criteria Misplaced Pages admins use to determine which external links should stay and which should go. You removed three of the links, but the links you left were all to massage association sites. The first two, again, are redundant since they are both mentioned in the Associations section of the same page; the third is, as I already stated, to the ABMP association's "value added" site which is not only redundant info already in the Associations section, but is also redundant to the link immediately preceeding it. Oh sure, that third link is to a page about about the health benefits of massage, but it is really just a friendly front for the ABMP association and their subscription magazine.

Let me give you the 411 on massage associations: Massage associations (e.g., AMTA, ABMP) are not open-source, objective, neutral, Library of Congress-style information sources. Professional massage associations are commercial, for-profit ventures that seek to sell memberships and insurance coverage. Any information they have on their sites is just as tainted by the spectre of commercial advertising as the sites you chose to remove from the external links section.

My suggesteed link, to the page about Massage Laws, was giving visitors to the Misplaced Pages Massage page new information that wasn't contained on the Wiki page. That, to me, seems to be the purpose and spirit for the "External Links" section: pointers to useful, objective info that isn't on the current Wiki page. All you have now in the External links section are pointers to commercial, for-profit massage association pages that have already been mentioned in the preceeding section...how is that useful, original info? or even advertising-free, for that matter?

I think Misplaced Pages admins need to stop making subjective decisions about which sites have "too much" advertising. Misplaced Pages admins should either establish an objective criteria for what is too much advertising or, better yet, just look at the actual info that is being linked to and forget about the surrounding ads. Lots of objective, useful information resides on sites that have ads.

If I haven't made myself clear, let me be direct: the link to the Massage Laws page under the External Links section should be restored as it is original, objective, and useful info not found on the Misplaced Pages page in question. The links to the massage associations in the External Links section should be removed since they are redundant. The link to "The Health Benefits of Massage" page should also be removed from the External Links section because it isn't "new" info not already covered on the Massage Misplaced Pages page; furthermore, that info resides on the ABMP association site which is also the link immediately preceeding it. -- Calgarian 13:22, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

You do state your case eloquently. However, I personally still do not think the site worthy of inclusion. Instead of just going back and forth between the two of us, it would probably be more productive for you to post to the article talk page. This will give more contributors the opportunity to decide both the case for your own link and your opinions on the rest of the links in the article. If the general consensus of contributors is that your link does justify inclusion I will, of course, bow to that decision. --GraemeL 13:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Choosing and Using Link

Graeme

Though I understand you point about the link, as I said to Stolley I don't think it should stay as it is for the purposes of accessibility. A user using a screen reader may assume that the link is to the APACS site, which is www.apacs.org.uk. For clarity could it be changed to: 'APACS (UK Payments Trade Association) guide to Choosing and Using a Credit Card'? What do you think?193.130.61.85 13:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that sounds like a good middle ground. --GraemeL 13:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for helping stop the sceala.com disruption. --Craig Stuntz 16:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

re: link edit

Hi Graeme, I accept your point, however I was simply trying to inform people of a good browsing those pages of a good website that would be related to their interest. Even taking those points into account, I believe the link would still be suitable for the page "shred guitar" as it contains no links whatsoever to dedicated external lessons sites on the subject, whereas "electric guitar" contains 4. I couldn't think of a link more appropriate than a non-commercial educational website such as Shredaholic.com.

I have contributed content to the shred guitar page before, some of which still remains on the page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.179.196.187 (talk • contribs) .

The site contains way too much advertising. My browser blocked 4 adverts and at least two others slipped past my filters. Please continue to contribute content rather than external links. --GraemeL 18:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Edit to test-n

Hi, just noticed your recent edit to Template:test-n. The linebreaks before the new noinclude block seem to break the use of tilde sigs with the template, so would it be possible to remove them and/or put the ja: link inside the existing block? —Zero Gravitas 19:22, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Heh, nice edit summary when you changed the section header. ;)

I've made the change, so give it a try and let me know if there are still problems. --GraemeL 19:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Hm, that still had the same problem. I moved it into the same line as the noinclude above it and it looks OK to me now. --GraemeL 19:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Yep, it works now. Thanks! —Zero Gravitas 19:49, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

norbert2000

No problem, glad I could help. -- ∞Wirelain 23:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Multiple Socks vandals

Please check out the Neil Lennon page. Who I suspect is the user:TheMadTim has created 3 socks in the last half hour. In addition to the 2 I have already told you about. --Karatekid7 23:50, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi again could you check out Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RR#User:Karatekid7. A new users first contribution to wikipedia is to report me for violation of WP:3RR. I am not sure if this is more sockpuppetry it just seems too much of a coincidence. --Karatekid7 20:31, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Bill_the_Bear who User:TheMadTim alleges was a sockpuppet of me. Suddenly a new user appears with this name: User:BiII_the_Bear surely should be banned for the username alone.

--Karatekid7 23:12, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Please see this Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Karatekid7 --Karatekid7 00:26, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Deletion?

Hello,

I'm just wondering if you could clarify something for me. Why would "Diablo 2" not be considered a 3D MMORPG?

It was a general tidy up removing everything that didn't link to an article. If you want to add it back in as a link to Diablo 2, that will be fine. --GraemeL 14:33, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you...I have done so. I was unsure of how to link within Misplaced Pages but I got it figured out.

edit title of page?

Hi I added a new page today, and made a spelling error in the title- Hw do I fix this? Thanks! Lisa —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lisa-BFWM (talk • contribs) 15:25, 24 May 2006 (UTC).

I can't see the page looking through your contributions, so it may already have been spotted and deleted. If it still exists, let me know the page in question and I'll take care of it for you. I can either delete the page, or move it to where you meant it to go, let me know which. --GraemeL 15:25, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi greame- I have been here for a while- and looks like I can change title page in "move" section. Thanks for speedy reply. I noticed you wanted me to add content and cool it on external links- to be honest I had a hard time figuring out how to write a new page - look like I figured it out now- Thanks for the heads up.

Lisa

Paige Harrison

I appreciate you watching the Loving Female Authority page and policing it for commercial links. I recomend you remove the links to the Elise Sutton pages as you have removed those which link to my web site. The Elise Sutton website is promoting a book and a subscription membership website.

My web site at www.paige-harrison.com is completely free with over 100 pages of free content. So I am planning to re-add the link to that web site.

If you do decide to allow the continuation of the Elise Sutton link I will be re-adding my other web site which promotes the Female-Led lifestyle through a membership site.

The cost of having a web site is extremely expensive and the commercial aspects offset this cost. I am happy to discuss this with you by telephone if you would like to personally speak with me.

Uniquely Rika

The link to the Uniquely Rika site is also promoting a series of commercial products. Once again handle this policy consistently or I will repost my links.

Reposting your links will only end up with you being blocked. We have over 1 million articles and I happened to catch you spamming, not the others. It's not possible for to remove all commercial links from every article when patrolling recent changes. If you feel other links on the article are commercial, then remove them yourself. --GraemeL 02:10, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Not Spam

It has come to my attention that you removed a link to the Retire Early Home Page on the Early Retirement entry, http://en.wikipedia.org/Early_retirement. Your comment was that you were removing a spam link. This is not a spam link.

It would appear that you are unfamiliar with the early retirement community. In no way is retireearlyhomepage.com a spam link! Please take a look it it. Thousands of people have been guided to early retirement by the useful information on this website. The author has produced spreadsheets which he distributes at no charge that allow users to analyze the potential of their portfolios to survive retirement. Please look at this page as an example:

http://retireearlyhomepage.com/softlist.html

Furthermore, his website is lauded by nationally known financial professionals. Scott Burns, a syndicated columnist, has listed the Retire Early Home Page website in two different columns as a resource for people wanting to retire. You can see those columns here for yourself:

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/bus/scottburns/columns/archives/2001/011104SU.htm http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/bus/scottburns/columns/2002/stories/burns_26bus.ART0.6c402.html

If you do not wish to register with the Dallas News, here are a couple of reprints of some Scott Burns' columns:

http://www.uexpress.com/scottburns/index.html?uc_full_date=20030213 http://www.uexpress.com/scottburns/index.html?uc_full_date=20011104

Liz Pulliam Weston, also well-known for financial advice, lists the Retire Early Home Page website as a "Related Resource" in her article about early retirement:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Retirementandwills/Retireinstyle/P34815.asp

John Greaney, author of the Retire Early Home Page, was featured, along with his website, in a Businessweek article:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_31/b3743621.htm

I'm sure there are many other such references.

May I ask what caused you to conclude that his website is spam?? I know many people who have benefited from the information he makes freely available at his website, and not a one of them considers his website spam. Please reconsider.

Another user marked the link as an advertisement and I admit that I removed it without taking a detailed look at the site. Now that I have looked at it in more detail, it seems to be non-commercial. If you add it back in, I will not remove it, though I can't speak for others. --GraemeL 02:12, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Atlantic Webfitters

Hi Graeme--I'm asking for your experience as a spam fighter. A user who edited as 24.137.90.147, and now as AtlanticWebfitters (his company), has been trying to get a bunch of links to his site added to Content management system and Web portal (and maybe others, see the anon's contribs, like here and here). We discussed it at Talk:Content management system, but he has decided to keep on adding the links. He has also created a page for his product at CMSWebPortal, then blanked it when someone added a speedy template. I'm not sure how to proceed--he doesn't seem like a classic spammer, and the links are marginally useful (but only marginally, and infested with google ads and pitches for his product). So... advice? · rodii · 03:21, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, it's worse than that. AtlanticWebfitters is just a blurb for the company, and at least one of the articles he's pushing is a direct copy from another site. · rodii · 03:27, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar

For antivandalism efforts which have placed you on my watchlist enough times for me to notice, I award you this barnstar:

The RickK Anti-Vandalism Barnstar Thank you for all your hard vandalism-fighting work! Mike1024 (t/c) 20:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

A no longer needed block

Hello GraemeL. Some time ago, you blocked the IP address 207.157.190.2 because of bad article editing. The reason that I'm reporting this to you from a different IP is because you blocked a school IP address. I tried to tell you, but it wouldn't let me. I'm not the one who vandalized it (Misplaced Pages). It was a different student. Yes, I go to school. The student who was messing around was expelled, so the block is no longer necessary. Believe me, I'm telling the truth about this. I told him not to, he didn't listen. No lie! If it isn't too much trouble, would you please unblock the IP address for me-us please?

response

Hi Graeme, sorry, not trying to muddy up the pages. I do understand and value your role. but, with the examples given on the page, this a unique solution that deserves proper billing. AOL's Passcode is the same thing as RSA's SecurID. Why is BioPassword in red? Maybe solutions could be broken out by type or limited to solutions rather than implementations?? I will add that the examples area is one of the greatest values of the service. There are many people trying to understand something quite difficult and this helps them understand and figure out next steps. I can draft other content on authentication in general pre-post and see what you think.

All the best,

Jack

Links

Hi there,

You removed a link I added because it was a commercial site - which is not allowed to link.

But there is another commercial site linked already (www.thebestmanspeech.com) that charges users?

Are you favouring one commercial site over another or has this one slipped through the net?

Sockpuppet of User:Gibraltarian

I saw you had bocked an ip for beinh a sokcpuppet from gib. now i came up with this User:212.120.237.180, wich according to lives in Gibraltar, and had the blocked user's same attitude (deleting the argentine name in the header of Falkland Islands, against consensus). I ask you to block it. —Argentino (talk/cont.) 17:41, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello

i was wondering if i could have your input on this article?

I need your help in blocking a vandal that has been blocked before

This user 207.45.240.31 is adding his support forum site to the Atkins Nutritional Approach and South Beach diet, as well as Low-carbohydrate diet. I check these pages daily and have to remove his edits. I've warned him several times in his talk page and he uses another IP, which I can't seem to find, to stop posting URLs to support forums until a vote has been made concerning my external links argument under discussion in Atkins Nutritional Approach. He's seriously hindering my argument by repeatedly posting changes. He's not bothering to read any talk pages either so it's pointless to try and explain policy to him. He was blocked a few weeks ago by you, but he's back as of last week. His name is Tom and runs many diet sites selling products and such. His adds ARE purely spam. I know this because he runs sites for conflicting diets. I run an Atkins board and I follow Atkins and help others on Atkins. While you are at it, please give me input on my external links discussion in the article. Thanks BrianZ 16:43, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Dear GraemeL, BrianZ is a frustrated user from atkinsdietbulletinboard.com that started his own board and is trying to use wikipedia to plug his site. He is simultaneously removing links to atkinsdietbulletinboard.com while trying to ask for permission to have his added.

He claims above that atkinsdietbulletinboard.com is spam. However I claim differently. Atkins Diet Bulletin Board atkinsdietbulletinboard.com has its roots as one of the first discussion boards for the atkins diet. There are over 23,400 users and over 375,000 posts on 30,000 threads. The board has been in existence for going on 4 years and before that the board was outsourced to another BB company. To the best of my knowledge this was the first atkins diet related bulletin board. Its parent site was the host of the first ( again to the best of my knowledge ) atkins diet mailing list and I believe even the first atkins diet related web site. Our site I believe was founded before atkins.com was founded.

The current state of the atkins diet is that the corporation atkins nutritional has bought the rights to the atkins diet name however they have drifted from the teachings of the late Dr. Atkins. Our site sticks to the principles of the original book and diet and in my opinion we are a quality source of information regarding the atkins diet.

Since its inception we have not been out to make money with the site. Lately as the bandwidth has increased we needed to use google adsense and amazon to try to get it to a point where the board can sustain itself. Certainly we are not profiting from the board other than to help people.

BrianZ was a member of atkinsdietbulletinboard.com and didnt like the way it was run so he started his own site. He has a total of 900 member mostly from the original spam that he sent to the members of the atkins diet bulletin board. In my opinion he is looking to use wikipedia to get some new members to his site.

He seems to have been coming here and removing the link to Atkinsdietbulletinboard.com. Is this allowed? Is it against the rules to post an external link in the external links section? I was never given a reason nor was I ever banned for it. If it is indeed against the rules I will stop. If it is not I would like to add it and ask to have Brianz stopped from removing my links.

In fact brianz's site is much more spam like. here is his store that is a main link from his site: http://www.cafepress.com/aatw This is to sell atkinsbytheway products. This is the same thing he is complaining that I am doing. I really dont understand his point. He seems to be going around removing bulletin boards with a reputation such as atkinsdietbulletinboard.com while pushing his site which has relatively few members, posts and information.

Here is the proof that Brianz was a member over at atkinsdietbulletinboard.com

Brian Z ADBB Amateur October 15th, 2003

http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/memberlist.php?do=getall&page=21&ltr=B&pp=20&order=asc&postslower=0&postsupper=0&sort=username&ausername=&homepage=&icq=&aim=&yahoo=&msn=&joindateafter=&joindatebefore=&lastpostafter=&lastpostbefore=

http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/member.php?u=6037

I would like to chat with you via email to discuss this in legnth. Please feel free to email me to discuss.

Regards,

Tom tom@atkinsdietulletinboard.com

PS ... could you kindly unblock my other IP address ... I will not re-add the sites unless I have your blessing. Sorry I really didnt know what was going on. i just saw that my sites that were listed there for the longest kept disappearing ... I thought it was brianz removing them. I believe that I was banned because of Brianz s claims. It would be appreciated if you could let me back on.

brianz has been removing links from this site.

Dear GraemeL,

BrianZ is a frustrated user from atkinsdietbulletinboard.com that started his own board and is trying to use wikipedia to plug his site. He is simultaneously removing links to atkinsdietbulletinboard.com while trying to ask for permission to have his added.

He claims above that atkinsdietbulletinboard.com is spam. However I claim differently. Atkins Diet Bulletin Board atkinsdietbulletinboard.com has its roots as one of the first discussion boards for the atkins diet. There are over 23,400 users and over 375,000 posts on 30,000 threads. The board has been in existence for going on 4 years and before that the board was outsourced to another BB company. To the best of my knowledge this was the first atkins diet related bulletin board. Its parent site was the host of the first ( again to the best of my knowledge ) atkins diet mailing list and I believe even the first atkins diet related web site. Our site I believe was founded before atkins.com was founded.

The current state of the atkins diet is that the corporation atkins nutritional has bought the rights to the atkins diet name however they have drifted from the teachings of the late Dr. Atkins. Our site sticks to the principles of the original book and diet and in my opinion we are a quality source of information regarding the atkins diet.

Since its inception we have not been out to make money with the site. Lately as the bandwidth has increased we needed to use google adsense and amazon to try to get it to a point where the board can sustain itself. Certainly we are not profiting from the board other than to help people.

BrianZ was a member of atkinsdietbulletinboard.com and didnt like the way it was run so he started his own site. He has a total of 900 member mostly from the original spam that he sent to the members of the atkins diet bulletin board. In my opinion he is looking to use wikipedia to get some new members to his site.

He seems to have been coming here and removing the link to Atkinsdietbulletinboard.com. Is this allowed? Is it against the rules to post an external link in the external links section? I was never given a reason nor was I ever banned for it. If it is indeed against the rules I will stop. If it is not I would like to add it and ask to have Brianz stopped from removing my links.

In fact brianz's site is much more spam like. here is his store that is a main link from his site: http://www.cafepress.com/aatw This is to sell atkinsbytheway products. This is the same thing he is complaining that I am doing. I really dont understand his point. He seems to be going around removing bulletin boards with a reputation such as atkinsdietbulletinboard.com while pushing his site which has relatively few members, posts and information.

Here is the proof that Brianz was a member over at atkinsdietbulletinboard.com

Brian Z ADBB Amateur October 15th, 2003

http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/memberlist.php?do=getall&page=21&ltr=B&pp=20&order=asc&postslower=0&postsupper=0&sort=username&ausername=&homepage=&icq=&aim=&yahoo=&msn=&joindateafter=&joindatebefore=&lastpostafter=&lastpostbefore=

http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/member.php?u=6037

I would like to chat with you via email to discuss this in legnth. Please feel free to email me to discuss.

Regards,

Tom --Tommac2 tom@atkinsdietulletinboard.com

PS ... could you kindly unblock my other IP address ... I will not re-add the sites unless I have your blessing. Sorry I really didnt know what was going on. i just saw that my sites that were listed there for the longest kept disappearing ... I thought it was brianz removing them. I believe that I was banned because of Brianz s claims. It would be appreciated if you could let me back on.

GraemeL, You are aware of my stance on this issue and I hope you have explained it to Tom, I am NOT a disgruntled former member. I am a former member that hasn't visited his site since December 03. I am all for adding support forum links to diet articles and his is no exclusion. It's great board with lots of people. I just hope he can join me in my argument to add them instead of continuing this childish "My site is better than your site" fued. BrianZ 14:54, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Brianz

Brianz is the one removing the links. I just want him to stop. He has made false alligations about my site and continuously deletes relevant material on a daily basis. I am a very active member of the atkins community and have been there forever. Brianz has taken it upon himself to remove atkinsdietbulletinboard.com links. There is tons of relevant material there such as the FAQ. Again this is not a profit site so there is no mal intent here. Just would like Brianz to stop removing the links. Why is he doing it then pretending that you are? If you want to discuss this we can ... by either email or on my chat or whereever you want. Thanks in advance.

Regards, Tom --Tommac2 tom@atkinsdietulletinboard.com

Graeml, I've emailed Tom and hopefully we can see eye to eye on this one and stop flooding Misplaced Pages with silly back and forth. If not, would you please let him know the same information that you told me after deleting my support forum link repeatedly? Regardless of what his opinion is of my site. Ours are both the same and I stand by my opinion that both deserve inclusion in the Atkins article. Thanks BrianZ 06:28, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Graeml, I have replied to Brianz s email to me and have asked him to be specific as to how he feels the external link is in volation of any of the external link rules.

He avoids this question. Yet wantonly continues to remove the links.

It would be appreciated if you can chime in here.

Regards, Tom --Tommac2

Also Brian,

Why has Graeml removed your link and not the others? Let him remove what he thinks needs removing. You are acting very childish here like "if I cant play I am taking my ball" kind of mentality.

All I am asking if for you to leave the site alone and let the admins and others handle it. They are the one to make the decision about your site and if they feel that the other sites are in violation then they will remove it.

Regards, Tom --Tommac2

I Require Mediation

Graeml, This situation on external links for the Atkins Nutritional Approach article has gotten way out of hand, including poor etiquette on both parts unfortunately, and personal attacks. I want this fued to end as it's horrible for Misplaced Pages. Can you please state clearly and precisely what Misplaced Pages's policy on linking is for the user Tommac2? I am incapable of writing in a way as to make him understand I guess. I feel he needs to hear from an admin once and for all. No matter how much I try to explain, he thinks I'm on a mission to remove his link. I'm on a mission to keep the Atkins article clean and encyclopedia-like. I would appreciate anything you can do to help. Like I've said in many places. I apologize for taking up way too much space on your talk page and everywhere else with such a dispute. Thanks BrianZ 05:41, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Brianz,

It is very clear. It is stated in the External Links section

http://en.wikipedia.org/External_links

I dont know what could be more clear.

You have not stated why I am in violation yet you continue to remove the link. The link is 100% valid as per the rules of the External Links section. I have shown in other posts that you have some kind of issue with ADBB. In fact today on ADBB two users have posted links to your bulletin board.

The history talks for itself as to your motivation:

1) You used to be a member at ADBB left because you didnt like it and started your own board 2) You tried to spam your board here and were told not to by GreameL 3) you took it upon yourself to remove the other links in the external links section. ( If I cant play I am taking the ball home ) 4) The site is currently in mediation but you continue to remove the site as a self proclaimed king of the atkins diet site 5) You have posted negative stuff about me here on Graemels talk calling me a spammer ( see above ) 6) You have changed my post wordings to misrepresent what I was saying. 7) You have removed my site but left obvious spam on the board. 8) You have denied a mediator to step in as an unbiased third party It is clear you have a grudge. Again this issue is being taken care of. Everyone is aware of the issue and you are the only one making a big deal about it. Let the admins and mediators do their job. Allow a unbiased third party take it from here. Just step back.

Regards, Tom Tommac2

user Xyrael has volunteered to step in as a third party mediator

user Xyrael has volunteered to step in as a third party mediator for the atkins diet issue.

I am asking BrianZ to step back and allow the content dispute to be handled by user Xyrael.

Are you ok with this GraemeL?

Regards, Tom

I'm copying what I wrote on Xyrael talk page here as I'm tired of having to defend myself and Wiki Policy:

Tom, So you want me to stop and let your link remain while the "content dispute" is resolved? Why? Why can't all external links to support forums be deleted until the "content dispute" is resolved? Oh, I know why - You want all your competitors deleted and have yours remain because you feel yours is the best. You also want the advantage of Google pagerank. Shame on you Tom, You tried to copy my words about admitting link promotion. That's good, at least I admit that part of my reason for adding a link is promotion of a specific audience. If I was so concerned about Google PageRank and was a spammer, I would have kept adding my link until I was banned. Much like you have been in the past before you had a username and should be banned now for your behavior.

The fact that you simply are to angry to comprehend is that this is not a "content dispute". I think all Atkins support forum links should be included which is why I posted in the article discussion in the first place. But I must follow policy until something is changed. if it never does then we must cease to add external links to any Atkins Support Forum.

Stop posting content on everyone's talk page, it's unneccesary. I hope Xyrael resolves this issue as well. I want to get back to become an editing member of Wiki instead of babysitting you. BrianZ 14:39, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

BrianZ, The google ranking is already high and has been for the past 6 years ( ABDD and my other sites before that ) It has nothing to do with that at all.

What it has to do with is that someone added my link as a external link and you are taking it upon yourself to remove them.

Again you have not posted where you feel this breaks policy. What rule is it breaking? Again, it is your opinion that it is breaking a rule. But you have not followed through with any kind of logic or evidene that it is breaking a rule. The site is in moderation and I am not sure of your motivation to keep removing as site that has been there for well over a year until you started removing it.

Tom Tommac2

banning a user.

GraemL,

What are the policies about user posting. Following the past few days there has been a major edit war over at the atkins diet part of the page.

It appears that BrianZ has been deleting links and such in the name of wikipedia and has caused some stir between himself and I. He has been accusing me of many things some even on your talk page.

I did a little bit of research and I found the most underhanded thing is true. I can present evidene if you wish or you can look over at teh chat of the atkins diet discussion.

Firstly BrianZ has been putting words in your mouth. Without putting words in his mouth my take on what he has been saying was that you told him to remove all of the links from Atkins Diet external Links section. Not exactly but not far off. Better you read what is in the atkins diet section to determine yourself.

In any case after causing such a rucus. I did some digging. I was being accused of coming here only to spam my site. Which was not true. He showed my lack of articles. So I went and looked at his history. I see your conversations with him and it was nothing like he described.

But then I came accross his edit of the Atkins Diet External Links section.

In his comments he stated. Removing Peta related articles.

In reality he removed all of the relevant external links in that section. now right before he did this he got his wrist slapped for spamming his Atkins Diet site AtkinsAllTheWay. It was clearly stated by you that the reason for the removal was for self promoting his site.

Now he deleted all of the sites that in theory would be competition for his site and under the false pretense that he was removing Peta Spam.

That in itself is dispicable. But then to follow up with the rucus he has caused over at the atkins diet site, misquoting you, accusing me of virtually everything in its entirety makes me sick.

Regards, Tom Tommac2

Tommac2

Please stop posting on everones talk page AND RE-Posting your link after being told the policies. Isn't your situation in mediation? Also Please do not erase warnings on your talk page. Doing so is considered vandalism. Thank You Hu12 01:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

about my talk message... (under my IP addy)

I'm so sorry about the links... I assumed we could put those considering other fan sites have theirs listed as well. I won't list them again. :)

One, however, IS an official site that I run and that's for Thaao Penghlis. Someone keeps coming in and deleting it though, but I've hopefully taken care of it. There are TWO for him, not just one. Ugh... pettiness runs rampant.

Anyway, thanks for showing me what we can and can't do.

Z

Gambling Project

Hi, GraemeL - I've seen some of your edits in the different Gambling articles and thought I'd invite you to come join the *WikiProject Gambling. If you're interested, come on over and add your list to the project participants. Should be fun.Rray 02:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you allowed to link to a manufacturer.

I see on Adjustable Beds information about Leggett & Platt, a manufacturer; and I see under medical equipment, a link to the Rascal Manufacturer. Our main site is http://www.ElectropedicBeds.com and we are the manufacturer of electric adjustable beds since 1964. Can commerical sites get listed? Are you looking for a certain type of format?

I'm sorry that I was "spamming". (I wasn't quite sure I was doing something wrong - although I did not see "commercialization" on your site.) I will not do it again.

Lloyd Kraus

(P.S. I think Misplaced Pages is incredible!) email removed to prevent spam

Thanks for understanding. I will take a look at the other links on both articles to see if there are any that violate Misplaced Pages gudelines. The trouble with adding links to manufacturers is that there are litraly hundreds of them. If one gets listed, everybody tries to get listed and Misplaced Pages is not a web directory. --GraemeL 17:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

71.131.48.175

I noticed that you left a spam warning on User talk:71.131.48.175. However, I don't feel that User:71.131.48.175 is advertising - he does not appear to be selling Vitamin C, but it seems he is trying to add information on treatment (albiet not in a good manner). I'm not certain where "treatment of avian flu by ascorbic acid" would fit, though. --AySz88\^-^ 18:20, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Regardless, the site he keeps linking to is not a reliable source. I've just given him his final warning for adding his link again. --GraemeL 18:22, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Meditation

Hi Graeme,

I had made 2 changes to the meditation page. One was addition of a link to a Yoga Sound Meditation resource and another was editing the zh link to point to the proper wikipedia entry for Meditation in the Chinese language. I'm not clear why you reverted them?

thanks, --Bajrangi 22:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, your edit looked like typical spammer behaviour. Your only edit was to add an external link and you added the link to the top of the list. for some reason, some spammers also like to mess with unicode characters in interwiki links (possibly something in automated software they may use).

The contents of the site you linked to don't look spammy to me on further investigation. Feel free to make your changes again, though please don't add your link to the top of the list. You might want to read WP:EL and WP:SPAM for more information. I'll post a more general welcome message to your talk page. --GraemeL 22:42, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification Graeme. I will make sure to not put the link at the top. --Bajrangi 22:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

message when editing

Dear Graeme

I got odd interruptions when saving on Misplaced Pages this afternoon. I was trying to tidy up a German speaker's English and fill in some psychology. Please do contact me on email removed to prevent spam

Yours sincerely

David P

Hi David. Things have been slow off and on today and I have been seeing problems too. Misplaced Pages is supported entirely by donations and hugely popular, so sometimes the availability of hardware lags behind the number of users the project is serving. If you have problems saving changes, hit the back button and try submitting them again. Alternatively, take a break for a while and try again later. sorry I can't offer more helpful advice. --GraemeL 15:35, 19 June 2006 (UTC)