User talk:Bender235 - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Bender235 (talk | contribs) at 15:37, 16 June 2013 (→I have asked you to not contact me repeatedly, you persisted.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 15:37, 16 June 2013 by Bender235 (talk | contribs) (→I have asked you to not contact me repeatedly, you persisted.)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff) Hello, welcome to my talk page!

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Attention: I prefer to keep discussions unfragmented. If you leave a comment for me here, I will most likely respond to it on this same page—my talk page—as an effort to keep the entire conversation in one place. By the same token, if I leave a comment on your talk page, please respond to it there. Remember, we can use our watchlist and topic subscriptions to keep track of when responses are made. At the same time, feel free to send an alert to me on this page about a comment you have left elsewhere.

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Disambiguation link notification for January 5

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date templates

Bender, it is neither necessary nor desirable to use "01" and "06" for one-digit dates in the "birth date and age" templates. Please see examples provided: Template:Birth date and age. Regards, Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:15, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I know it is not necessary, but I always add it to avoid confusion. --bender235 (talk) 02:25, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Bender, there is no "confusion," and the template page examples do not support your continued insertion of the unnecessary "0"; it is simply redundant coding. The "0" adds nothing. It should be deleted from all examples of Infobox NFL player together with all other deprecated coding that has been made redundant by recent improvements to the template. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:44, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I just saw Template:Bda creates an ISO 8601 conform microformat even when entering the way you are suggesting. Okay, I see your point now. --bender235 (talk) 03:02, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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I love this bot. Fixed all the links immediately. --bender235 (talk) 12:54, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

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Infobox NFL player: link error -- can you fix this?

Bender, I know that you enjoy making serial corrections to Infobox NFL player and the like, and I've discovered a problem that I think is right up your alley. In the NFL player infobox, the link for "Tackle" is usually mis-linked and piped to "Tackle (football move)" in the player stats section, when in fact the word should be properly linked to the more specific "Tackle (American and Canadian football)." The error is widespread, and based on my own anecdotal observations, it appears that the error actually represents a majority of the NFL player infobox links. I would be grateful if you would add this issue to your to-do list of future fixes. Thanks. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:54, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the information. I'll fixe that every next time I come across a wrong-piped link. --bender235 (talk) 16:13, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Template:Infobox NFL player -- high school

Head's up, Bender: WT:NFL#Naming standard for high schools. I though this was already settled, but a newbie wants to reformat this again. Explain why your format works better (i.e. space efficiency in space-limited infobox), and I will back you. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:00, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Just did. Thanks for pointing me at it. --bender235 (talk) 14:34, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

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Harlem Shake (song)

I reverted your recent edit to this article. WP:SEE ALSO says that the links included in such a section should reflect those in an article on the topic that's relating them, in this case Internet meme. Neither "Crank That" nor "Lisztomania" are mentioned in that article. Regardless, there are far more songs that share that meme aspect, and it wouldnt be practical to list them all or pick and choose. Dan56 (talk) 13:58, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Please name those "far more songs" that resemble "Harlem Shake" in the regard that they featured millions of user-generated videos following one specific theme. I'd like to know. --bender235 (talk) 14:08, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

List_of_Internet_phenomena#Music. Also, if you wanted me to check your talk page, you could use the talkback template. Usually, editors reply at the other person's talk page. Dan56 (talk) 11:34, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Pope Francis

Hallo,

Just wanted to give you a heads up, remember when you created an article about Jorge Mario Bergoglio, saying he was a papabile? Well, he is the new Pope! Congrats, you created the article about the new Pope!

I'm not religious, but just wanted to congratulate you on your luck ;) Link from the Void (talk) 19:30, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Haha, nice. Totally forgot about that. --bender235 (talk) 21:21, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Came here to say the same thing. Original revision. It's always interesting to see the history of articles about "ordinary" notable people who become vastly more important later. Nyttend (talk) 04:13, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

An unsourced BLP. Haven't times changed! ;-) An optimist on the run! 22:52, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, it was a stub. --bender235 (talk) 07:17, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

High school All-America and other awards

Hey, Bender. Query: should we be including high school honors in the infobox for someone like Patrick Peterson, who was a consensus All-American and won several major awards in college, and is a multiple Pro Bowl selection in the NFL: ? My take is that we need to prioritize what honors get listed in the infobox once they exceed 10 lines of total text, in which case, it's very easy to strip the high school stuff from the infobox, while mentioning it in the "early years" text. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:10, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Probably right. At least keep that link to the All-USA team, please. --bender235 (talk) 07:03, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Da'Shawn Hand

I just created a really weak Da'Shawn Hand stub, do you think you can check to see if you can add anything to it?--Yankees10 01:02, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I can do that. --bender235 (talk) 07:09, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

ITN credit

On March 16 2013, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Xi Jinping, which you recently nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.

ThaddeusB (talk) 02:09, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Michelangelo

Re the mighty Mick..... he is so mighty that he only needs one name. Although other people have shared his Christian name (Caravaggio for example), only one Michelangelo made the name famous.

So adding his family name to it is a bit the same as writing Donatello's name in full, or Raphael's name in full, or insisting on always referring to that other bloke as Jesus Christ as if "Christ" was his surname.

In the context of the article on Michelangelo, his full name ought to be included in the text, but ought not be the title of the article. Some well-meaning person at Wiki-Commons has insisted on using full names wherever possible, which makes things harder to locate, not easier.

In article that refer to his work, the his family name is completely redundant.

Likewise Leonardo. In his case it's fine to call him "Leonardo da Vinci" which is what the people of Florence called him, but when shortening it, he should be called "Leonardo", not "da Vinci" (as Dan Brown did). At that date in Italian history, the name by which a artist is known is variable. Sometimes it was their first name. Sometimes it was their family name, if the family name was distinctive and the first name was not. (Verrocchio) Sometimes it was a nickname (Botticelli). Instances where an artist is always known by his whole name are rare (Piero della Francesca) or relate to the fact that several brothers or generations were artists, (the Bellini family).

Amandajm (talk) 14:53, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I just added the surname because every other name in the line had it included, too. It just looked better. --bender235 (talk) 15:02, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Hummph! I just looked, and you are right. It is one of these cases where there is only one Bramante, and he is called "Bramante", not "Donato Bramante". The moment you introduce a first name, it like as if the writer is trying to distinguish the person from the great Bramante. Who's Donato Bramante? Well maybe he played for Juventus.

Carlo Maderno/Maderna/Moderna (there is no agreement) gets both. Bernini is just "Bernini" because, like Michelangelo he made the name famous. But his father, also a sculptor but much less great, is known by his given name as well, to distinguish him from his greater son.

The list should read: Bramante, Michelangelo, Carlo Maderno, Bernini. The people who need the full treatment are the Sangallo, of whom there were (I think) three, all up. Two of them were Giuliano and so are called Giuliano da Sangallo and Giuliano da Sangallo the Younger. But the second one of these is usually known as Sangallo the Younger, dropping both the forename and the "da". It looks as if I need to make a redirect on that one.

One of the really confusing issues about Bernini is that his name was Gianlorenzo, or Gian Lorenzo or fully Giovanni Lorenzo.

I'll do some sorting out. Amandajm (talk) 01:07, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Sandra Navid page

Hi Bender235. I wasnt sure if it was you that designated this page for deletion or if it was Bluerasberry. I left a note this morning on Bluerasberry's page, and I will repeat it here so that you can see it too. I created this page last year on Sandra Navidi as part of a school research project in which students were asked to create a Misplaced Pages page on an individual who is active in the financial industry both in America and in Europe. The article had recently been flagged as "Dead End" and also as an orphan. Yesterday some external links were added. Today it is being considered for deletion because "The links are casual mentions of this person, and not content focused on this person". I removed those external links and replaced them with relevent links that do focus on this person specifically. Please advise if this is sufficient grounds to have it reinstated. If so, can the "Dead End" classification be removed? And in addition to that, Sandra is mentioned on http://en.wikipedia.org/Wall_Street_Warriors. I configured a link from this article back to the Sandra Navidi article. Please advise if this qualifies to have the orphan designation removed. Whytestone (talk) 20:51, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Usually, orphan means 3 or less Misplaced Pages in-links. --bender235 (talk) 07:56, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Can I create these 3 additional links on other Misplaced Pages pages, or do I need to wait for somebody else to do it? Whytestone (talk) 15:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

You can, of course. But make sure they fit the context. --bender235 (talk) 07:10, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello again. I've put a considerable effort into updating this article over the last week or so. Thanks to the constructive comments provided by you and the other editors, I made several corrections. I've removed much of what did not belong, and added more of what was missing. I believe that this article is much more in line with the guidelines & standards set forth by Misplaced Pages. Creation of my first article began as an assignment from a college professor, and now that I am starting to get comfortable with the editing process I am beginning to research a subject for my second article! Whytestone (talk) 01:58, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:Columns-list

Template:Columns-list has been nominated for merging with Template:Div col. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. -- Beland (talk) 23:42, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

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EJ Manuel

Hiya Bender. I saw that you recently moved EJ Manuel to E. J. Manuel. I was the one who moved that article before, so I just want to point out http://sports.yahoo.com/news/qbs-center-stage-florida-state-135411298--ncaaf.html, a copy of the (now dead) source I had in there before. Manuel doesn't use periods in his name, and I think the article title should reflect this. Cheers, Nolelover 21:11, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Even E. J. Manuel can't eliminate grammar rules. Per MOS:ABBR, Misplaced Pages spells his name "E. J. Manuel". --bender235 (talk) 21:15, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but since when has a Misplaced Pages rule ever held true 100% of the time? :) Look at something like WP:INITS: "Generally, use the most common format of a name used in reliable sources". As a general rule, a lot of leeway is given when reliable sources clearly indicate that a rule does not hold true for a given example. In this case, I think it's pretty clear. Not only do we have an AP report clearly stating that he uses EJ ("...although Daniels - Bruce Jr. - uses the conventional periods between letters while Manuel - Erik Jr. - doesn't.", but we have all these articles, these results, and the school's bio all saying the same. Yes, I'm sure you could find plenty of sources that say E.J. or E. J., but when you have a reliable source that specifies EJ? Why would you have that in the WP article, but still call him E. J. in the title? Nolelover 21:35, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Again, there are certain rules people can't eliminate when it comes to the spelling of their name. So Manuel wants his given name initials spelled without the periods. What's next? Somebody might want his name spelled all in CAPITALS, or maybe CaMeLcAsE. Should Misplaced Pages accept that, too? --bender235 (talk) 21:40, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Pretty much. Again, see WP:COMMONNAME. It's the most common name in sources, even if we generally go by those glorious rules of grammar. Nolelover 21:56, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

The examples you brought are not given names, but stage names. For actual names, we use our Manual of Style. --bender235 (talk) 00:52, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

First of all, I don't see how or why one performer is different from another performer. WP:Middle names treats k.d. lang as a legitimate exception, with no mention of whether or not it is a stage name. Second, the MOS: "Misplaced Pages does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources." His official name may indeed by E. J. For that matter, his official name, as per his birth certificate, most likely doesn't have initials at all. However, that's all irrelevant. He is consistently called EJ in the news, and has demonstrated that he wants to use that name. As such, we follow the sources. Would you please point to the specific area in the MOS that says that for actual names, the person's intent is irrelevant and we always put periods and spaces in? Nolelover 05:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I've boldly moved the page back. If you do still have concerns, we can ask for other opinions at the Project talk pages. Nolelover 14:14, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Would you mind answering the questions I've brought up here instead of arbitrarily saying "same grammar rules for everyone"? That's not true, as the MOS points out: "Misplaced Pages does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources." That's pretty clear. In this case, the best sources refer to him as EJ, and we have a specific source saying he prefers that form. There's your manual of style. Nolelover 02:15, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

~~You can find sources for "E.J." and "EJ", just like you can find sources for "N.F.L." or "NFL". It doesn't matter. --bender235 (talk) 08:31, 29 April 2013 (UTC)~~

NFL.com and BuffaloBills.com spell it "EJ", for some reason. I moved the article. --bender235 (talk) 08:37, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Much appreciated. Thanks for it :) Nolelover 16:40, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Franco-Prussian War

There is now a move discussion at Talk:Franco-Prussian War#Move?. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 21:54, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Soviet–Japanese War (1945)

Sorry to bother you, but with three exceptions, I can't spot any difference in the sections that this edit says have changed. Clearly, I'm missing something! Can you explain to me the differences between the sections it says are different that to me look the same? If so, I will be extremely greatful, and much less perplexed. With thanks in advance! Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:55, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Easy to explain. In those sections that don't appear to have changed I removed superfluous whitespace, using Advisor.js. --bender235 (talk) 12:01, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

What a shame! I was hoping for a complex, mysterious and exciting explanation of a cunning conspiracy theory!!

More seriously: Thanks. Most appreciated! Pdfpdf (talk) 12:22, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Invitation to WikiProject Breakfast

Hello, Bender235. You are invited to join WikiProject Breakfast, a WikiProject and resource dedicated to improving Misplaced Pages's coverage of breakfast-related topics. To join the project, just add your name to the member list. Northamerica1000 19:44, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

How come? --bender235 (talk) 19:57, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 9

1995 European Athletics Junior Championships (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

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College names

I saw your edit at Template:Infobox NFL player/doc to specify that the college name at NFL.com should be used. Any thoughts to the discussion you started at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League#NFL_player_infobox.2C_college_.E2.80.93_avoid_abbreviations.3F, whiere I suggested that WP:COMMONNAME should be used, which would account for all sources and not just exclusively NFL.com?—Bagumba (talk) 16:00, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'd agree with common name, with a little footnote that says "don't use abbreviations when both the long and the short name are equally common" (like "LSU" and "Louisiana State"; whereas "California-Los Angeles" instead of "UCLA" is not). --bender235 (talk) 16:06, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

As for LSU, my suggestion would be to to do an WP:RM on LSU Tigers and other related LSU articles. It would make for a simpler guideline to just say to use the common name from Misplaced Pages article titles for the school's football article.—Bagumba (talk) 16:53, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm getting confused on what your position is now. You made a change from USC to Southern California, when its neither listed on NFL.com nor common name in USC Trojans football.—Bagumba (talk) 00:23, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I did that to avoid ambiguity with "the other USC" (University of South Carolina). --bender235 (talk) 09:26, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

I've started an RFC at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League#College_names_in_athletes.27_infoboxes.—Bagumba (talk) 17:08, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

I'd appreciate your input at the RFC before you make changes from USC to Southern California. Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 23:34, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Files missing description details

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Kevin Mawae

Hi there, Bender. I saw you'd recently made some constructive edits on the Kevin Mawae article; I've just posted a suggestion for a few changes on the article's Talk page, and I wonder if you'd be willing to give it a look. I work as a consultant to the NFLPA, and the changes concern that organization, so I'd prefer not to make direct edits. Let me know if you can, no worries if you can't. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 02:03, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Just saw the update, thanks very much for making the change! WWB Too (Talk · COI) 13:59, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. --bender235 (talk) 07:07, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Trivial cross-references

Hey, Bender, I see you have been busy with NFL Draft-related edits. As always, I appreciate your diligent work to improve NFL player articles . . . but I do have a small bone to pick with you: why are inserting and/or defending trivial cross-references to other players like this one:

"Hayden was . . . the second cornerback taken (after Dee Milliner). Hayden is the highest selected defensive player from Houston since Wilson Whitley in 1977."

These kind of cross-references are low-value trivia that often clutter articles with meaningless gibberish while the articles continue to lack high-value discussion and analysis of the subject player's career. And they're not really about the subject player, and they are usually barely relevant to the player who is the actual subject of the article; they often function as a hook to insert random trivia about teammates, other league players, the subject's college, etc. Frankly, I usually delete these kind of low-value cross-references on sight, and I know several other editors who do likewise -- including random references to high school and college teammates, references to the draft history of a high school or college, and references to other players who rank higher in terms of team or league records, season-leading statistics, etc. What's worse is when these low-value cross-references are inserted without a supporting source, and inevitably, the quoted stat or record is wrong or out of date and no means for cross-checking or updating the cross-reference are provided.

Please consider. Regards, Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:42, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

I do not consider these cross-references to be of "low value". They provide notable background on the significance of a certain draft pick.

Plus, Misplaced Pages does not have any space limitations. We are not required to cut down information to the most necessary. --bender235 (talk) 22:59, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Please help

Dear Jesse V., could you please check the talk page of Robby_Robinson_(bodybuilder) and help to achieve fairness in materials put on article about Robby Robinson? I would like to hear your opinion if you also support that within a couple of days an article about a famous bodybuilding legend turned out into an article about a ... I do not even have words. All the previous contributions were deleted, not only those from me, and new ones are presented so misleading that people who know Mr Robinson and his life and achievements will never believe this is an article about him. Thak you. RRWM (talk) 00:35, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Are you sure you're addressing the right person here? I'm not "Jesse V." and I have no connection to that article whatsoever. --bender235 (talk) 07:07, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 5

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Your recent revert on the Manti Te'o article

In this reversion you said, "corrections were wrong, plus notes parameter is useful. Please leave it the way it is."

The article as reverted by you now gives a 40 yd dash figure which is supported by neither of the two cited sources.

The article says, "All values from NFL combine, except bench press and forty yard dash (from Notre Dame Pro Day)", and cites two sources, described as NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Manti Te'o and Manti Te''o | Notre Dame, ILB : 2013 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile. As mentioned above, neither source supports the figure currently given for the 40 yard dash. The first cited source supports the figures given for height, weight, arm span, hand span, and broad jump. The second cited source supports the figures given for ten split, twenty split, shuttle, cone, vertical jump and bench reps.

Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 23:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't look at the 40-yd time. That one is wrong now, indeed. I was looking at height, because NFLDraftScout says 6-1.2. For the 40-yd time, we should use the NFL Combine numbers, because those are more reliable than hand-timed Pro Day numbers, and there are splits available. --bender235 (talk) 07:42, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Giovanni

Congratulations on being the first editor to draw him out of his shell! I hope you don't waste too much time or energy trying to reason with him, though. I am kind of thinking he's not very persuadable. (Thanks BTW for the Barnstar -) JohnInDC (talk) 18:34, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

It's okay, I'd like to give him room to explain himself. I'm still wondering what "court case" and "identity theft" he is referring to, tho. --bender235 (talk) 18:42, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, there is something to be said for letting him completely and visibly fail to make sense! The only way I can see "identity theft" mattering here would be if this guy was a star at OSU and some time between then and today he had to change his name to something completely unrelated. (Witness protection makes more sense than ID theft in that case though.) Anyhow that might explain why the new name isn't in any of the record books! But it wouldn't explain why someone who went to so much trouble to put space between his current name and his old one would go to the trouble of connecting them back up again. He says he's "done with" us two however so we may never get an answer. JohnInDC (talk) 18:49, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

BTW, I'm not trying to mess you up or make your life difficult by removing his threats along with his edits. It's just easier to rollback whatever he does! JohnInDC (talk) 15:24, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

I know. I don't blame you. --bender235 (talk) 15:27, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Plus, have a look at this!

I don't think we're dealing with the most savory of characters here and I suspect what's going on is that, having tried so hard to construct a seamless and well-documented fake history for himself, he's concerned that what's going to turn up in future Google searches is our discussion of the fabrication. I think he's growing a bit desperate. (Of course this is all surmise on my part.) JohnInDC (talk) 15:44, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to be a quasi-stalker guys, but this weirdness has intrigued me. I think this person may suffer from multiple personalities disorder. This is the most bizarre thing I've seen on Misplaced Pages in my 6 1/2 years editing. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:11, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Can't speak for Bender, on his Talk page, but I don't mind the attention - after all, you can observe a lot by just watching. I agree that this is a weird one. Unless the Charlotte club is in on the gag, it takes a lot of balls (and an uncommon willingness to play on others' trust) to pass yourself off to an OSU alumni group as an accomplished and admired football player from a storied age in the school's history. And, like I noted elsewhere, there's a kind of, I dunno, arrogance too in assuming that facts that are so easily checked will not be checked. It doesn't add up. And finally I was thinking how if this editor had just let the deletions stand, hadn't tried to force them back into place after block upon block, we'd have stopped talking about this after about 2 paragraphs. Certainly no one would have bothered to drop a note to OSU or the Charlotte group. Some people are their own worst enemies - JohnInDC (talk) 18:30, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

"Not the most savory of characters" might be a fitting description. I'm not conjecturing here, but isn't it interesting there's also this verdict against one "John Strassini" of Charlotte, which says: "To corroborate his fictitious professional history and to generate funds for his businesses, Strassini fabricated federal income tax returns, Forms 1040 for himself and Forms 1120 for his two businesses. With these returns, the defendant claimed that he was the founder and CEO of multi-million dollar construction enterprises. He also sought the services of reputable accounting firms to create financial statements for his corporations." You may connect the dots now... --bender235 (talk) 22:52, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Please note...

...that WP:MOS, which I am well conversant with, is a guideline, not a policy. Unlike a policy, a guideline doesn't have to be followed robotically, and if improvements can be made, WP:IAR allows us to make them. It is almost never the case that reverting someone's well-thought-out alteration on a MOS issue (as opposed to accidental mistakes or vandalism) is justified, and it is never an excuse for editwarring. Thanks, Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I know MOS aren't "must follow" but rather recommendations. Yet I haven't seen any rational given by you on why we should not follow the recommendations. Any particular reason why the current, non-MOS compliant style is preferable? And remember, "I don't like" is not a valid answer. --bender235 (talk) 00:17, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Explanaton or not, there is never an excuse to edit war on the basis of a guideline. If had a little more patience, you would have gotten a thorough explanation - and one will be forthcoming when I have the time to make it. Beyond My Ken (talk) 15:49, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

There was no edit warring. What are you talking about? --bender235 (talk) 15:51, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Just to explain the delay: I am quite busy in real life, so my available editing time has decreased significantly. I have time to go through my watchlist and do what needs to be done there (occasionally even grabbing a few minutes at work), and to further some of my own content-based projects. Since the dispute between us is not about content, I considered it to be a low priority, and was planning on getting to it this weekend, when my time will be more available (albeit still less limited than usual). Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:18, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

BTW, "How long are you going to filibuster this" isn't very WP:AGF. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:18, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Reverted kB in ARM architecture

Hi, I partally reverted your change. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=ARM_architecture&action=historysubmit&diff=556504822&oldid=556403241

I like KB myself but KiB would be correct, not kB. See revert. You seem very experienced, more than me, and thanks for all the edits (to ARM). Comp.arch (talk) 00:02, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh man, I changed "KB" to "kB" on a couple of other sites, too, unaware of WP:COMPUNITS. Damn. --bender235 (talk) 00:15, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

OK, then maybe not a waste of time letting you know. Maybe you change those or at least know in the future. NB. As mush as I used to hate it the SI-prefixes are now used for external storage, hard disks (and flash memories), but not RAM or cache. Comp.arch (talk) 09:08, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:NFL predraft -> Template:NBA predraft_Template:NBA_predraft-2013-05-24T11:31:00.000Z">

Since you have made several edits at {{NFL predraft}}, I was hoping you might comment at Misplaced Pages:Help_desk#Template_request_for_NBA_Draft_Combine.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:31, 24 May 2013 (UTC)_Template:NBA_predraft"> _Template:NBA_predraft">

Vicente Guerrero undo?

Hi, regarding that issue:

There is not doubt that the contributions of Vicente Guerrero to human rights and egalitarianism were very important (and should be emphasized and described in more detail in the webpage). His reforms achieved social justice for the oppressed, e.g. Africans, Indians, poor Mestizos, etc.. In this regard, his reforms surpassed those of the USA and many European countries; he tried to supress State-driven ethnic discrimination more than a century before them!. I can see why then, the interest on making him one of the champions of indigenist and black revindication movements by 'making' him indigenous and black exclusively. However, one must have in mind that his reforms were made in an all-inclusive context, i.e. they were made for all Mexicans, regardless of ethnicity, and more within the spirit of true liberalism than within the context of the specific social 'fight' of a particular ethnic group. That's why some historians refer to Guerrero as the "most Mexican" of all Mexican heroes. Notice that even the Anglo-Saxons from the USA prized him because of many of his reforms, specially those that were very amicable and liberal towards Anglo-Saxon immigrants (e.g. the Austin quotation), but nevertheless, nobody claims that because of that Guerrero was Anglo-Saxon, even when in some of the paintings made of him he might had looked like one.

Some historians and people of his time regarded him as a Cuarteron (3/4 Spanish, 1/4 black and indigenous,--->historians), others as indigenous ('neutral' individuals and 'enemies'), others as black ('enemies', racism included), others as mestizo('neutral', 'friends' and 'enemies'), such that in the future most of the people that wrote about him limited themselves to describe him as 'dark' ('obscure') or trigueño ('olive-skinned', 'swarthy'). The rest is just myth. I don't know how on such a basis and on the visual analysis of paintings it can be claimed that his father was black and his mother indian (specially because the paintings are portraits of him, not of his parents, and many of them are posthumous). Also, the fact that his father was a royalist (supported Spanish rule) and his uncle was, in fact, a royalist soldier (i.e. part of the Spanish militia) does not seem to fit well with an exclusive indian and black heritage. The colonial regime was very harsh on blacks and indians, and did not allow them to have property, nor have freight businesses (much less gun making businesses) nor admit them among their military hierarchy. So, most likely Guerrero belonged to some of the Casta that included some Spanish heritage, but however he was mixed, with also black and indian heritage. Notice however, that as many insurgents and liberals, Guerrero despised the Spanish Casta system, that's why they all claimed to be Americans (from the American continent) and Mexicans (their country), regardless of their ethnic origin (Mixed, Spanish, Indian, Black, Asian, etc.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by AKMX (talk • contribs) 21:31, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

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Reply from Dsim64

I did that to be funny. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dsim64 (talk • contribs) 16:49, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Phineas Gage

What was the purpose of these changes? En- and em-dashes are hard to distinguish in the markup, and soft hyphens improve layout and appearance -- why did you remove them? EEng (talk) 01:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Soft hypens are a bit too much Insp. Gadget for Misplaced Pages. If you look at the source of the article then, it is basically unreadable, which is something Misplaced Pages should always avoid. --bender235 (talk) 09:05, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I see. And you changed the mdash/ndash markup to literal mdashes/ndashes because...? EEng (talk) 11:33, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Because User:Cameltrader/Advisor suggested it. And I don't see any reason not to do it. --bender235 (talk) 18:07, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I said why you shouldn't do it in my initial post here: the literal em- and en-dashes are very hard to distinguish in source. So in removing the soft hyphens you impaired the quality of what the reader sees (and summarily discarded a lot of someone's work) in the name of improving what the editor sees -- a tradeoff already made, in the opposite direction, by those who actually edit the article. Then you changed symbolic dashes to literal dashes, which does nothing at all except impair what the editor sees. Please don't make choices about what is or isn't convenient for the article's editors if you're not one of them. EEng (talk) 13:07, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Okay, you better get off the high horse here. I've been editing Misplaced Pages long enough to have an educated opinion on what's convenient for editors and what is not. That soft hyphen overkill you (or whoever) introduced to that article is simply ridiculous. I mean, ...second, compensating..., what the hell is that? Could you name any plausible scenario in which it would be necessary for the viewer's browser to break a single word three times? Is there anybody browsing Misplaced Pages with a 10px screen, or what? --bender235 (talk) 13:34, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Brought this case to WP:MOS. And by the way, just because you contributed to a particular article more than I did does not make you its owner. --bender235 (talk) 13:54, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm perfectly comfortable up here on my high horse, thank you.

Multiple soft hyphens allow a word to be broken at the one best point among several choices. That you think they imply breaking a single word over several lines calls into question your claimed extensive experience.
As it turns out your edits didn't even remove the soft hyphens -- what you actually did, using an automated tool you apparently don't understand, was to substitute a literal soft hyphen for each occurence of , similar to your substitution of — and – for — and –. But since literal soft hyphens are nonprinting (except at end-of-line), by doing so you have made it not only (as previously explained) very difficult to visually distinguish an en- from an em-dash in the edit window, you've now made it completely impossible to see where the soft hyphens are. Good work.
This article is full of medical terms and majestic 19th-century quotations, making hyphenation very helpful in avoiding unsightly underfilled lines, particularly in narrow captions and multicolumn notes/references. Your argument that readability of source text (seen by less than one editor per day) trumps readability of formatted text (seen by thousands of readers per day) is nonsense.
In any event this particular choice, in this particular article, was made (or accepted with no hint of objection) by editors actually working on (or at least monitoring) it. This has nothing to do with ownership -- if you showed any interest in substantive edits to the article that would be quite a different matter from what actually happened i.e. you dropped in to impose your personal ideas of what markup should look like, and moved on.
When you gain consensus at MOS for regulations micromanaging soft hyphenation please let us know, assuming the universe has not run cold by then. In the meantime, since you apparently don't know how soft hyphens work, or what the automated tool you're using actually does, think twice before applying the word "ridiculous".

EEng (talk) 22:42, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

You're barking up the wrong tree. I'll give you a chance to reply at WP:MOS and explain what people there describe as a "joke edit" of yours, before I revert your edit. --bender235 (talk) 13:46, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Please, no more metaphors -- so far you've got me "barking up the wrong tree" while on "the high horse".

Your insistence that you are combatting "soft hyphen overkill" is ludicrous since, as already explained above, your edit did not remove the soft hyphens but merely changed them to a form making then impossible to see in the edit window. (That the soft hyphens are still there is easily seen via the hyphenated linebreaks in the live article e.g. in most image captions.) This makes no sense at all.
Talk:MOS is for discussion of changes to MOS or of MOS interpretation, not forum-shopped editing disputes unrelated to anything in MOS.
Soft hyphens are part of Misplaced Pages markup, and in the absence of guidelines to the contrary they exist to be used according to the consensus of editors of the article in question. I am copying this discussion to Talk:Phineas Gage#Soft hyphens so we can hear if any of them finds soft hyphens as objectionable as you do.

EEng (talk) 03:47, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Society of St. Pius V

Your information posted on the Society of St. Pius V is incorrect. The society has been contacted about what you have posted. If you have any questions, you should read their websites http://www.sspv.org/ or contact them http://www.sspv.org/info.html because the article you had is not correct on their views concerning the Catholic Faith. Its not a matter of point of view, what I posted was the facts. Please read the info... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wessteele (talk • contribs) 19:08, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I was a student of that school. I know about the school better than you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomasyuvan (talk • contribs) 17:45, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Inflatables

That was rude ! whats wrong with you ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thestudio5 (talk • contribs) 17:54, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not a vehicle for promotion. --bender235 (talk) 18:04, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

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The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock

While I appreciate your attempt to impose the cite templates on this article, the previous contributors to this article did not chose to use them. Personally, I agree with them--I find the templates are cumbersome and a bother. If you have links to JSTOR and other sources, incorporate them in the current format, please do not impose a method of citation on an article that you are not a contributor to other than to impose that format. It makes it difficult for those who do contribute to the article on a regular basis. Therefore, I have reverted your edits.

Per WP:CITECONSENSUS -- The use of citation templates is neither encouraged nor discouraged: an article should not be switched between templated and non-templated citations without good reason and consensus and,
per WP:CITEVAR-- Editors should not attempt to change an article's established citation style merely on the grounds of personal preference, to make it match other articles, or without first seeking consensus for the change. If the article you are editing is already using a particular citation style, you should follow it; if you believe it is inappropriate for the needs of the article, seek consensus for a change on the talk page.

Please consider these policies if you intend to proceed with similar edits elsewhere, as with those today that raised my attention (i.e. the Prufrock article).--ColonelHenry (talk) 14:06, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Leaving aside the fact that you're citing guidelines, not policies: did you realise that your revert removed valuable information I added (e.g., JSTOR, DOI, ISBN information)? --bender235 (talk) 15:05, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

You are far from the first editor to fall victim to incivility. Take a look at my talk page. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:00, 12 June 2013 (UTC).

Martin Guevara Urbina

Bender I have corrected the article on Martin Guevara Urbina. Can you please take a look and remove the tags. I have tried everything to correct it. There had not been a problem until now or when others tried to add to it or make a correcton. The article is Martin Guevara Urbina — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sofia alvarez1 (talk • contribs)

I'm sorry, but I am not entitled to unilaterally removed AfD tags. No one is. The article in question will have to go thru AfD procedure (which, by the way, does not mean it will be deleted in any case). --bender235 (talk) 07:09, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock

Thank you for your work on citations on the talk page for The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock. I've replied there to a question you had and added a new section with a proposal. Please reply there. I'm writing here because I don't know how long you would have that page on your watchlist. WikiParker (talk) 00:54, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't have that page on my watchlist anymore, so thanks for the heads-up. Yet, I see little point of still being involved in this one, since ColonelHenry remains impervious to argument. I must've done something bad to him along the way that I'm not aware of, and that an apology doesn't fix. --bender235 (talk) 08:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

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I have asked you to not contact me repeatedly, you persisted.

I have asked several times before, I request again. Please do not contact me again. This is relentless harassment.--ColonelHenry (talk) 15:04, 15 June 2013 (UTC) Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Replied. What a pathetic abuse of WP:AN/I. What a pitiful character you are. It is just sad. --bender235 (talk) 15:16, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

I think that you should give the undertaking I have suggested at that ANI. The is no further advantage to you in continuing the section at ANI. No matter how much you feel that you were justified, your posts to User talk:ColonelHenry after (s)he had asked you to stop were in breach of policy harassment, and without such an undertaking, I think than an uninvolved administrator would be justified in blocking your account until such time as you gave such an undertaking. -- PBS (talk) 15:33, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I didn't get that. Who's supposed to be blocked? --bender235 (talk) 15:37, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Meatpuppeting accusations

I'd remove those. I understand your frustration, but they are extremely likely to backfire on you. Requesting people familiar with a controversy to come to an ANI discussion is generally considered acceptable. This case could possibly be considered canvassing (another accusation I would refrain from), but they are not meatpuppeting.—Kww(talk) 16:02, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Ok, so doesn't qualify as WP:MEAT. --bender235 (talk) 16:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

June 2013

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