This is an old revision of this page, as edited by In ictu oculi (talk | contribs) at 03:57, 22 September 2012 (→Requested move). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 03:57, 22 September 2012 by In ictu oculi (talk | contribs) (→Requested move)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff).svg){kind=small} | Vietnam Stub‑class Low‑importance | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
 | It is requested that a map or maps be included in this article to improve its quality. Wikipedians in Vietnam may be able to help! |
 | It is requested that a photograph be included in this article to improve its quality.
Wikipedians in Vietnam may be able to help! The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. | Upload |
The page should be Bắc Kạn, not Bac Kan. --Ionius Mundus 15:34, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Requested move
 | The request to rename this article to Bắc Kạn has been carried out.
If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag. |
Bac Kan → Bắc Kạn – The diacritics in this article has been moved 5 times without discussion the most recent move being the removal of the diacritics (from Bắc Kạn city to Bac Kan) today. Bắc Kạn Province employs the diacritics, as do articles that employ the diactics for disambiguation ( see: Sông Cầu, Bắc Kạn, Cẩm Giàng, Bắc Kạn, Chợ Mới, Bắc Kạn). There is also no shortage of usage amongst english sources. The title with diacritics does appear to have about 20% more sources but in either case this move should have come to WP:RM. Good case of WP:RETAIN.--Labattblueboy (talk) 15:47, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support - and grateful to Labattblueboy for this move proposal. The use of local Latin script (actually Portuguese based, but published in Rome in 1651) is consistent with (i) en.wp treatment of all other Latin-alphabet languages, Turkish, Maltese, Irish, Serbian. (ii) the only RMs there have been on VN geo names Talk:Cà Mau 2010, 2011, 2012. (iii) August RfC with 23 vs 16 for Vietnamese spelling.
- There's another more basic reason as well, which won't be apparent to non-Vietnamese reading Users, but is particularly important here. It's the reason the Jesuit missionaries applied accents and tones to the old Chinese script in the first place. A British version "Bac Kan" could mean various things, but with the Portuguese-influenced accents:
- Bắc Kạn "Back" means Northern Water-margins wikt:北wikt:𣴓
- Bạc Liêu "Baak" means Silver Distant wikt:薄wikt:遼
- The markings in the alphabet created by the Jesuit missionaries - and later enforced/encouraged by the French don't just tell the reader how to pronounce the names, they also disambiguate between different meanings: The place name Bắc Kạn, Northern Water-margins, isn't just a random set of letters it tells the reader something about the history/geography of the place. Of course few Vietnamese today can read or write the Sino "北" and "薄" which lie behind Bắc and Bạc, but everyone still knows that Bắc means "North" and Bạc means "Silver" ...but what does "Bac" mean?
- In ictu oculi (talk) 01:26, 22 September 2012 (UTC)