Talk:Prem Rawat - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Maelefique (talk | contribs) at 15:17, 28 July 2012 (→Undue weight in lead: adjusted date-time on forgotten sig from yesterday, no text added.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 15:17, 28 July 2012 by Maelefique (talk | contribs) (→Undue weight in lead: adjusted date-time on forgotten sig from yesterday, no text added.)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Prem Rawat. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Prem Rawat at the Reference desk.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Biography

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article has had a peer review which is now archived.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Religion: New religious movements Low‑importance

	Religion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Misplaced Pages's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by New religious movements work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Spirituality Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spirituality, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of spirituality-related subjects on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SpiritualityWikipedia:WikiProject SpiritualityTemplate:WikiProject SpiritualitySpirituality
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

India Low‑importance

	India portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Prem Rawat (defunct)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Prem Rawat, a project which is currently considered to be defunct.Prem RawatWikipedia:WikiProject Prem RawatTemplate:WikiProject Prem RawatPrem Rawat

Prem Rawat was a Philosophy and religion good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 25, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
November 14, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
March 11, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed

Current status: Former good article nominee

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Prem Rawat article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53Auto-archiving period: 30 days

Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments and look in the archives before commenting.

Subpages

This talk page contains numerous non-archive subpages involving past disagreements, including: /Bio, /Bio proposal, /Bio proposal/talk, /Bio proposal nr2, /Bio proposal nr2/talk, /Comments, /GA Review March 07, /GA review 1, /Teachings, /Teachings (draft), /criticism, /lead, /temp1
Sources: /scholars, /journalists, /WIGMJ, /First person accounts, /Lifestyle, /Bibliography, /mahatmas, /Leader of
Reference quotations removed from inline cites: /References
Related talk of a merged page: Talk:Criticism of Prem Rawat (and archives of that talk page: Archive 14 • Archive 13 • Archive 12 •Archive 11 • Archive 10 •Archive 9 • Archive 8 • Archive 7 • Archive 6 • Archive 5 • Archive 4 • Archive 3 • Archive 2 • Archive 1)

Archives
Archive index June 2004 – July 2004 July 2004 – July 2004 (1) July 2004 – July 2004 (2) July 2004 – August 2004 August 2004 – August 2004 (1) August 2004 – August 2004 (2) September 2004 – September 2004 (1) September 2004 – September 2004 (2) September 2004 – September 2004 (3) October 2004 – October 2004 October 2004 – April 2005 June 2005 – August 2005 August 2005 – October 2005 October 2005 – February 2006 February 2006 – March 2006 March 2006 – April 2006 April 2006 – April 2006 April 2006 – May 2006 May 2006 – July 2006 – September 2006 September 2006 – November 2006 November 2006 – January 2007 January 2007 – March 2007 March 2007 – May 2007 May 2007 – July 2007 July 2007 – October 2007 October 2007 — December 2007 December 2007 — February 2008 February 2008 February 2008 (2) February – March 2008 March 2008 March 2008 March – April 2008 March – May 2008 May – June 2008 May – August 2008 August – November 2008 November 2008 – January 2009 April 2009 April – July 2009 June 2009 – May 2010 May – June 2010 June – August 2010 August – September 2010 October 2010 – January 2012 January – February 2012 February –

Lima Interview and RSN, re: Nobel

Your link is the page that scrolls with new news, I've used http://sites.willax.tv/ceciliavalenzuela/entrevistas/prem-rawat-busquemos-la-paz-en-nuestro-interior/ instead, as it's a static link. RSN thread is here.

I understand that the RSN estimates the source as not qualified enough for this statement pretty cohesively, and I agree to drop the issue, unless better sources turn up.--Rainer P. (talk) 11:08, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

A "Puff Piece" that "Lionizes" Rawat. Again, can anyone find an example of a reputable, current interview or article that doesn't fit this characterisation please? That would be very useful.PatW (talk) 13:42, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank-you Rainer, if better sources do turn up, I would definitely be willing to look at them.

PatW, I think that's going to be very hard to find, because almost any journalist that does any digging is going to want to talk about the 70-80's because it's controversial, and that gets views/sells papers. I don't think PR is ready to re-hash all that just yet. but *shrug* I guess we'll wait and see. -- Maelefique 14:39, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I wrote a whole load of thoughts that this conversation prompted - but I've deleted it. Sufficit to say I think Rawat's inability to answer questions that are anything less then obsequious flattery says a lot more than that he simply doesn't want to 're-hash' past controversies. PatW (talk) 17:59, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Possibly, but right now, I'm still dealing with the God issue. Almost ready to go. Stay focused...on the edits/sources.

-- Maelefique 18:13, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

How's the "God Issue" coming along? I'd like to see some fresh input on this article. PatW (talk) 22:46, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

TRANSLATION REQUESTED above

Cecilia Valenzuela expresses her opinion on the fight Flores-Villarán, with scarce credibility.

Journalist Cecilia Valenzuela left a sad memory in Peruvian television, as she gave an epithet that we considered inopportune, after the opinions of “The Sniper” on the candidacy of Susan Villarán to the mayor's office of Lima.

In an interview with the Daily Mail, journalist Cecilia Valenzuela reiterated her position on the presence of Patria Roja in the municipal proposal of Susana Villarán with Fuerza Social; however, Valenzuela does not remember the interests that she defended when she was in Canal 2, her lack of objectivity and her low credibility in the journalistic Peruvian means, which have moved some readers to rate her as “the zero journalist”.

Jaime Bayli is criticized by “journalist zero”.

Cecilia Valenzuela branded her colleague Jaime Bayly as a “propagandist” of Susana Villarán: “There was a time in which he made fun of Raúl Tola calling him “de Carreño”. After this, I believe that we can call him Jaime Bayly of Villarán ”, she said. However, some readers have said that Cecilia would go for Ivcher, and for everyone in the Government on duty, that is to say, a picturesque person and nothing more.

Their declarations came after pointing out that Bayly showed an interview that Valenzuela did to Villarán “in a fractioned way and out of context” in The Sniper, to end up reinforcing the candidate's answers: “I did not think that (Villarán) needed translators”.

Aeronoticias considers that these statements by Cecilia Valenzuela have an adverse effect for Lourdes Flores, since coming from such a person “they benefit Susana Villarán”, the correct Lourdes Flores does not need this “friend”, and when she was in Frecuencia Latina, she was pathetic from the journalistic point of view. Cecilia Valenzuela's statements in her boring and hepatic programs were many times inappropriate and had an undeniable commercial aim, and now she wants to get some help which should not be welcome, as it comes from a journalist who does not deserve any credibility, in any case if she wanted to help Susan Villarán, she he has achieved it, Lourdes does not need that help, she will win because there is a consensus and unless there are last-minute surprises, Lourdes Flores will be the new mayoress of Lima".

- End of translation - .

I have seen the new paragraph on public speeches in international respected places or forums. Congratulations. Sorry if I am sometimes a bit hard judging the English version. It is still improving. The problem is that what anti and pro Prem editors consider improvement is exactly the opposite :-), but that makes the intellectual tennis here interesting :-) Best regards :-)--PremieLover (talk) 21:06, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Best regards! PatW (talk) 21:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

New TPRF release on the PEP

There's a new report on the activities of the Peace Education Programm, which is quite informative, including a video. It says there are 10 DVDs provided especially for this intent, and it seems to reflect some effort to standardize the undertaking, maybe covering some unanswered questions we encountered here before. See it at http://tprf.org/en/programs/peace-education-program. TPRF seem to be offering their PEP internationally.--Rainer P. (talk) 00:28, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Undue weight in lead

Just looking at the lead with fresh eyes and noticed how unbalanced it is.

It contains two references to Rawat's "divinity" when one is enough.

1. many saw him as an incarnation of the divine.

2. ridiculed in the US for his youth and his supposed divine status.

Four criticisms.

1. described as a cult.

2. ridiculed in the US for his youth and his supposed divine status.

3. Journalists noting luxury automobiles and multiple residences

4. criticized for a lack of intellectual content in his public discourses (others were impressed)

And yet not one mention of his followers as described in the article

1. Many were attracted by the sense of joy, peace and commitment shown by Rawat's followers

2. Love flowed back and forth between him and his devotees

3. The premies were described as "cheerful, friendly and unruffled" and seeming "nourished by their faith".

4. To the 400 premie parents who attended, Rawat was "a rehabilitator of prodigal sons and daughters"

Momento (talk) 03:09, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Non-WP concerns have kept me less active here recently, but I am still planning to go ahead with the recommended arbcom request (best guess, this weekend sometime I will get to it) regarding where we ended off with the DRN process. I suspect that when that's all done, the lead will, if anything, prove to be too little weight, instead of too much as you suggest. However, if I read what you're saying correctly, you'd like to re-write the lead, please post your suggested edits here for discussion first, as per our usual process. thanks. -- Maelefique 10:16, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

In the interests of brevity I think the easiest way is to amalgamate the two "divine" comments in a NPOV way and reduce the "negative" from four items to the two, the ridicule in the media and that DLM was a cult and then it won't be necessary to add some balancing "positives" about his followers. Therefore,

"At the age of eight, he succeeded his father Hans Ji Maharaj as leader of the Divine Light Mission (Divya Sandesh Parishad) and as the new Satguru (lit. Perfect Master) to millions of Indian followers. Rawat gained further prominence when he traveled to the West at age 13 to spread his message. His claimed ability to impart direct knowledge of God attracted a great deal of interest from young adults but he was ridiculed by the media for his youth and his supposed divine status. Under his charismatic leadership, the Divine Light Mission (DLM) became the fastest growing new religious movement in the West, though it was sometimes described as a cult". Momento (talk) 21:56, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I only have a problem with the removal of the divinity aspect, as that is what the most recent discussions are about, and if the arbcom discussions result in any changes, that mention would have to go right back in anyway. Removing that point would seem to lessen it's impact, rather than show what a large part of his "mystique" was at the time, and that doesn't seem like the correct direction to be moving in, I'm waiting to see what other think as well here. -- Maelefique 15:16, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Categories: