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September 17, 2005	WikiProject peer review	Reviewed
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The Woman Behind the Visor

The Metroid Database has a new feature chronicling the development of Samus Aran as a character:

The Woman Behind the Visor (retrieved November 8, 2008)

I'm not entirely sure where in the article we can cite this, so I'll just leave this link here for anyone who can. Abodos (talk) 21:18, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

We certainly wouldn't be able to use it as a citation anywhere, since the Metroid Database is a fansite, and so not a reliable source under Misplaced Pages definition. At most, we could add a link for this in the External Links section, but there's already a thorough profile of Samus courtesy of IGN, so I don't see much of a need. Arrowned (talk) 23:12, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

How Old do you think Samus is?

I'd say mid-to-late twenties, but that's just my guess. I know that none of the games directly states her age, but I'm just asking to get your opinions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.91.25 (talk) 09:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

The fact is, she appears differently in different games. In fact, I would say she looks older in MP1 than MP3. Not to mention that the time between games is never given. It's impossible to tell for sure, but she clearly can't be more than early thirties.--_ZXCVBNM 07:41, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

There's also the fact that this is a fictional universe, and one that takes place in a seemingly futuristic environment. It's highly possible that human lifespans are different in the Metroid setting. On top of that, Samus is not completely human anymore; she's hybridized with Chozo blood (and Metroid blood as of Fusion), and we have no idea what the suit does to her physicality.

In a nutshell, real world logic need not apply. King Zeal (talk) 13:19, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I hate to be a party pooper, but this is a question better suited for a discussion forum. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 16:30, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

-Agreed. Despite this being a very interesting question, it has nothing to do with improving the article. 70.243.34.104 (talk) 18:20, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

"Appearances" Section?

Looking at the section, it seems like the list of summaries of her appearances in every Metroid game don't jive well with the article. Maybe it would be better if the section just summarized her roles throughout the series in prose, and let the actual game articles summarize the plot.--_ZXCVBNM 19:16, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

It should be probably be done something like Master Chief (Halo) (an FA), although that was promoted in 2007; Gravemind (a GA) is more recent. Gary King (talk) 19:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have references for the unreferenced information?

To begin with, does anyone got references for the ton of unreferenced information in this article? Gary King (talk) 07:28, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Jennifer Hale voices Samus in the Prime trilogy?

User:Kung Fu Man pointed me to this video (also at here) of an interview with Jennifer Hale, who apparently voiced Samus in the Prime trilogy. There is no mention of her in this article, so that should perhaps be corrected, preferably with some reliable sources. Could someone also remind me as to when Samus actually says anything in the Prime trilogy, as I thought she was a non-speaking role? Gary King (talk) 16:43, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Heh, she voiced Samus, but only for the various grunts and miscellaneous sound effects. AFAIK, Samus only speaks in the 2D games, particularly Metroid Fusion.--_ZXCVBNM 21:41, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

For the record, reliable sources are very hard to find for this. The article originally did mention Jennifer Hale, but this conversation on the Jennifer Hale talk page back in October explains why we removed it, and also the ridiculous extent I went looking for proper sources without finding anything legitimate. Maybe you'll be able to find something with three months having passed (or perhaps you just have better Google-fu than I do), but I'm not holding out much luck. Unless the argument can be made of a Youtube video being reliable, which IIRC, is a very sticky subject. Arrowned (talk) 02:41, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the insight. I was definitely not aware of the previous conversations on this. Gary King (talk) 03:29, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I've used the UltraNeko video interview from her website as a reference using the proper cite interview format. -Sesu Prime (talk) 06:06, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
You may want to look here to see what I have to say on this topic. -Sesu Prime (talk) 02:56, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

-This is kinda like Link's voice in Legend of Zelda. 70.243.34.104 (talk) 18:23, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

She talks in OM, so who voices her there? 75.157.115.154 (talk) 04:16, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Some gal named Jessica Martin. sesuprime 20:12, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Metroid: Other M

Do you think there should be a picture of Samus's face when it is released? Wyndia (talk) 23:23, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but I don't see a reason to wait for the release of the game. I've always thought an image of Samus' face would be beneficial to the article, but I suppose one could have argued that seeing her face wasn't really necessary to understanding the character, as it was typically only shown for a few seconds at the very end of the games. But since Other M seems to feature Samus' face extensively throughout the game, it has become a major part of the character, so I think it really is necessary now.

The Zero Suit has become her most recognizable form outside of the Power Suit, so I nominate this still I took from the third (and most recent) Other M trailer to be included in the article. This would bring the fair-use image count to three, but I think that's justified because each image will be serving a very deliberate purpose toward informing readers about the character. Thoughts? -sesuPRIME 12:18, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

What is the rationale that you intend on using for it, what caption will you give it, and which section will you put it in? Gary King (talk) 17:51, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

The fair-use rationale will explain that seeing her face is essential to having a thorough understanding of the character. Neither of the two images currently in the article really show what the character looks like. Is she designed to look cute or sexy? Even ugly? Does she have big anime eyes? Does she look like an 18 year-old? Or more like 40? All of this information is completely lost without an image of her face.

A caption like "Samus, as she appears in a cutscene from Metroid: Other M" is all I can come up with right now, but something that ties more directly into the section text would work better. And finally, I think "Fictional biography" would be the most fitting section for the new image, then the NES screenshot could be moved to "Sexuality" (seems appropriate since it shows the defining moment she was revealed to be female). Thoughts on all this? -sesuPRIME 01:49, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Go ahead and do it. Personally I would prefer to include the image, but if and when this article gets to FAC, we'll have to see what they say. Gary King (talk) 02:26, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Done - I think it'll be fine; Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask have three fair-use images each and they've been FAs for as long as I can remember. And we'll be able to add a more descriptive caption when the game is released and we know the context of that scene. Cheers! -sesuPRIME 03:29, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

The Other M teaser trailer shows Samus when she was a teenager, with short hair. Should we include a shot of her when she was younger? And the "Sexuality" tag should be changed to something else: it kinda makes it sound like the section is discussing her sexual orientation rather than how she's "a woman in a man's world" and Nintendo's pin-up girl. 75.157.115.154 (talk) 04:14, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I think her "present day" look is the one we should continue using as it's more widely recognized and more relevant to the series as a whole. I see what you mean about the "Sexuality" header though. Maybe "Femininity" would work better? sesuprime 20:12, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

She definitely has more masculine qualities than feminine ones. The Sexuality header is technically accurate per the dictionary definition: "The condition of being characterized and distinguished by sex." Gary King (talk) 03:41, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

True, "Sexuality" isn't incorrectly used, but it can be misleading. According to Wiktionary, it can also mean "sexual activity", "the concern with, or interest in sexual activity", "sexual potency" and, of course, "sexual orientation". While it works, it's less than ideal. How about using "Femininity and masculinity" or "Femininity versus masculinity", or just "Masculinity"? sesuprime 13:11, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

If I am reading a section in this article entitled "Masculinity", it better be because the section reveals that she's secretly a man ;) The "Sexuality" section talks about how she is considered a sex object, how she is a breakthrough character for females, how she is one of the sexiest video game characters, etc. So I think the title is an accurate one. Gary King (talk) 17:38, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Haha, you have a point there. Cheers. sesuprime 04:14, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

It's kinda hard to be a "breakthrough character for females" if you are "considered a sex object". It just seems like objectification to me. Still, she does fall under the category of the sterotypical "36-24-36-plus woman", like most female video game characters do, though her physique changes from game to game: in Corruption, her figure looks more realistic than in Brawl or Other M. Perhaps "Gender Role" or something similar would make a better title for the "Sexuality" section, as in modern society "sexuality" is more widly recognized as having other connotations than "The condition of being characterized and distinguished by sex." 75.157.120.15 (talk) 18:58, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

under sexuality...

"Heidi Dangelmaier, a computer science graduate from Princeton University, conducted research on developing interactive titles for game manufacturers before pursuing a business in which she works with manufacturers to expand video games to target girls more. In an article for The Washington Post, she remarks that she was unhappy with what she considered a halfhearted attempt to include girls in the audience for video games. Dangelmaier said of Samus and Capcom's Cammy video game character: "That's not a woman, that's a drag queen. Does she have the right contours? Sensibilities? Sense? Probably she's quite brutal. I don't think this is a role model for women or something we would aspire to be. You're going to find some girls who like these games, but generally they know they're being left out."

Why is that bit included? it should be deleted. who cares what this woman said? it has little if not nothing to do with the actual Samus character at all, her personality, or her sexuality. Men could oogle at anything, and will, so what? The character of Samus is pretty much the adoptive mother to an alien life form thought only capable of destruction for crying out loud! The article should be about things like that, and not quotes from people who've never played the games that completely contradict the strong AND compassionate woman character that she is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Magicbologna (talk • contribs) 16:30, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Replace infobox image?

Now that Nintendo has released some proper Other M artwork of Samus in the Varia Suit, it seems like an appropriate time to update the infobox image. Or this image might work better overall since it can also replace the closeup of her face, cutting the article's fair-use image count from three to two. Thoughts? sesuprime 04:36, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

So... Yes? No? sesuprime 22:47, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

seems like a good idea Magicbologna (talk) 14:40, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the second one should be used, the half-profile angle makes it kind of difficult to properly present Samus' look (the human form even more than the Power Suit incarnation). Although I consider the other Other M screenshot only a slight improvement, being just a face shot and so on... I would give it a wait till the game comes out, maybe it will provide some more appropriate images. Prime Blue (talk) 23:04, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

I have to disagree completely, I think that second image Sesu Prime linked to is perfect for the page. I would hardly call it obscured or "difficult to present" It's way better then the second picture that is on the page now, and could easily replace both of them, if there is a concern about image count. It's a good picture that would look nice on the page showing Samus in both forms. Magicbologna (talk) 02:42, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, a portrait-type pose would be best for both the Varia and unsuited images, I guess I'm just eager to see the infobox updated with some Other M artwork, but there's no harm in waiting. I also agree that the article's second image isn't the greatest, but I felt the article was in desperate need of her exposed face from Other M (see above) and there aren't too many clear shots of her unsuited "present day" look in the trailers. sesuprime 06:35, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Stallion Free from NeoGAF has uploaded clean Other M screenshots. It might not be super glossy as it does not come from an FMV, but I think this full frontal shot of her in-game Zero Suit model is better than what we currently have, and a clearer indication of her looks than the render. If it's purely a quantity issue, I'd rather see the revelation one go: The section talks about sex appeal and gender roles, and also mentions the Zero Suit. Given that that representation of her probably comes second in importance after the Power Suit version, I find it more relevant. Prime Blue (talk) 22:14, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Its all wrong

history of metroid that you put on the wiki is completely wrong, you've made a lot of unnecessary trips! history is simply: Metroid-Samus zebes goes on to destroy the pirates. metroid 2-Samus must destroy metroid sr388 on the pirates were divided into two groups, one went on heels (to study phazon) and the other is back on zebes (for rebuilding), and you save a baby Metroid Samus it brings with it. Metroid 3 (Super Metroid)-steals the only metroid ridley, Samus rescued from the pirates and multiply, Samus top zebes pirates and destroyed once and for all. metroid 4 (Metroid Fusion) Samus top-sr388 and is infected by x, in this chapter Samus discovers that the Fed had kept the metroid, the Finn this chapter seems that Metroid will be extinguished once and for all, but Actually there were many others on other planets. Metroid Prime 1, 2 and 3-history to know, because you've written, and with the death of Dark Samus ending the latest chapter in metroid. Metroid Prime Hunters "does not have a specific position in the history of the saga's first reference to show that your history is wrong and Ridley, Ridley fact you have these changes:-meta-ridley ridlei-omega-ridley and strangely after becoming ridley Omega Ridley returns to be in super metroid and this is not the same-in metroid fusion ridley is normal and frozen in my history instead:-ridley ridley-back-again super metroid ridley frozen in cast-meta-ridley ridley my omega makes more sense the second reference is that all first analyzing the scans can be seen that often speaks of when Samus destroyed zebes. also in super metroid and metroid fusion and two never speak of phason in the summaries of the adventures of Samus. for metroid hunters did not understand the criterion by which you have placed. In short you have the big stoner and you do not understand why you have changed throughout history that Nintendo had delivered in the right order. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.7.167 (talk) 19:04, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

What? Chronologically, the Prime series takes place between the 1st and second Metroid games, and Other M takes place between Super Metroid and Fusion. Is that the order in which the games were developed? No. Like the Legend of Zelda series, the games are not developed in chronological order, and newer games are being made that take place before, between, and even during existing titles. That is why phazon isn't mentioned in the games following the Prime series. 75.157.120.15 (talk) 19:04, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Portion of Metroid: Other M Iwata Asks

It discusses Samus. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:56, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Is Samus her given name or her surname?

Do we ever learn that? Serendi ous 19:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I think that Aran is her surname. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 18:27, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

The reason for Samus leaving the GFP should be expanded a little.

I'm not saying any info is wrong, but as far as I know, Nintendo hasn't stated that a single specific event shown in any media is the sole reason for her leaving the GFP. Obviously what was shown in Other M is the most known history in USA as to why Samus could have left the GFP, but the manga that was made as her official history shows a completely different event before fastforwarding to her as a bounty hunter. In the manga, she is last seen as part of the GFP when the Space Pirates make an attack on Zebes. At the end of chapter 5, before Samus leaves for Zebes, she is told that the army will make a massive attack on the planet in 48 hours, during which Samus and her two GFP friends and partners go with her to the planet to save the chozo before the army's attack. At the end of chapter 12, the GFP arrived at the planet after it was too late to save some of the chozo, including Old Bird and Gray Voice. They were the two main chozo who raised her as well as Gray Voice being the one whose chozo DNA was integrated into her, Adam was her closest human father figure, but Gray Voice raised her. These two chozo are the ones shown with Samus when obtaining the gravity suit in Zero Mission, so they can't just be disregarded since they are even in at least one game. At the end of chapter 12 she promises to him (after he sacrificed himself fighting Ridley) that she would continue to fight and called him "Father." Then chapter 13 goes to a few years afterwards, with her as a bounty hunter.

Like I said, Nintendo hasn't stated the exact reason for her leaving (although it is greatly implied in Other M), but regardless, this event in the manga is another HUGE event in her history that could be the reason she left the GFP. Either one of these could be the sole reason, or one could have happened shortly before or after the other, either way, I think what happened in chapters 6 through 12 in the manga (the space pirate attack on Zebes) should be mentioned in her biography. At the very least, the sentence about her leaving the GFP because of the event with Adam's brother should make note of this event as well and say that either or both could be why she left.68.81.162.70 (talk) 21:52, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

HE IS IN SUPER SMASH BROS BRAWL. IT IS A SUIT! HALFORDS! BY AMMAR! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.240.232.57 (talk) 20:23, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

A couple concerns

One is that it never addresses the the Zero Suit in terms of critical commentary, and I'm sure that such commentary exists due to its appearance in Brawl; and the other is a lack of development info concerning her role in Metroid: Other M. Here are some links: - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 22:07, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

PTSD

According to a psychiatrist and a veteran soldier, both who reviewed the cutscene in Metroid: Other M where Ridley confronts her, Samus has Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Should this be included in the article? 142.26.194.190 (talk) 21:07, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Are there sources for this? Is this notable? — KieferSkunk (talk) — 07:12, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Pelé

Samus’ name is based on Edson Arantes do Nascimento, the soccer player better known as Pelé:

“Even the name of the protagonist could be put together in this manner, and if I wanted to give someone a strange name, I could refer to Pelé’s name.” - Hiroji Kiyotake

“Kiyotake, If you check if Pelé’s real name was ‘Samus Arantes,’ that’s a little incorrect. He’s called ‘Something’ Arantes Nascimento, and only ‘Aran’ matches. (Laughs)” - Yoshio Sakamoto

Source — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lampiaio (talk • contribs) 21:55, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Samus Aran/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

Article does not comply with MoS fiction. The Manual of Style says fictional elements should not be described from an in-universe perspective. The entire fictional biography section needs to be rewritten or removed. –IsaacAA (talk) 20:54, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

It's essentially a Plot section, just like what you would find in a movie or video game article. It's the only part of an article that is mostly written in-universe; even then, as recommended by the guidelines, it's suggested that the article ground the section in the real world. Well, this section already does, by mentioning the games and in which game some of the facts come from, etc. Gary King (talk · scripts) 01:16, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Then it should be listed by the works of fiction it draws from, for example if the first two paragraphs are the plot of the manga, it should be mentioned, preferably as a subsection called "depiction in manga" or similar, and not a fictional biography. –IsaacAA (talk) 03:41, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Okay; the article will probably need more time for someone to work on it than a GAR will allow, then. Gary King (talk · scripts) 05:01, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I rewrote "Fictional Biography" as "Description", is it OK now? igordebraga ≠ 13:22, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, seems to be in compliance with the MoS Writing about fiction section except for the use of past tense. Thank you very much. –IsaacAA (talk) 08:11, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Character Decline

I tried to add her decline in he character development but it was deleted, but if you go on the site http://second-truth.blogspot.com/2010/09/samus-is-slowly-shrinking.html you will see why I attempted to make that edit. --203.206.73.28 (talk) 11:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

It wouldn't surprise me if the next game of her will be the last, because the ratings will drop so low that the franchise will likely be stabbed in the back in the near future. --203.206.73.28 (talk) 11:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

WP:RS. --Niemti (talk) 12:28, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Feminist Backlash

As I stated before after the release of the next instalment she would be chickified to death and the developers will be forced to pull the plug on the franchise. This will cause a major outrage amongst the feminist organisation and they would claim all males are in favour of reducing heroines to damsel in distresses and state that all male players are chauvinist and future games with a male lead role will be banned if not then boycotted. Any female lead will also be denied even if they are not faux action girls or equalised because they find everything misogynistic and nothing misandric. I tried to add the backlash to her reception but it was deleated. Can anyone tell me why? --124.148.98.197 (talk) 11:00, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, where is this coming from? Do you have a source for all of this? If so, it'd be best to provide it. If this is just your personal editorial/speculation/essay, then it's being removed due to being original research, which is not acceptable on Misplaced Pages. Sergecross73 msg me 13:39, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Both the critics and the players believe that her character has declined. The aim of Metroid Other M wasn't to empower women but rather weaken them for simply because they thought chickifacation sells. --124.148.98.197 (talk) 14:39, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

You'll need to provide reliable sources that back up what you're saying, or it will be continued to be removed. (For example, a link to an IGN or Eurogamer article that discusses the decline in character.) Also, it'd probably help if you use real, or more common words; I don't believe "chickification" is a real word, and as such, people are probably going to be even more likely to challenge the information. Sergecross73 msg me 15:02, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't make up the word, I adopted its meaning from TV Tropes. There are many who agree with me on Youtube but that site wouldn't be considered a reliable source either. --124.148.98.197 (talk) 15:23, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

You are correct, random users on Youtube don't qualify as a reliable source. If it's any consolation, there's some information already in the article that is similar, I believe, to what you're getting at.

G4 TV's Abbie Heppe considered a portrayal of Samus as "sexist"; she wrote that she "cannot possibly wield the amount of power she possesses unless directed to by a man", and found that her anxiety attack cannot be reconciled with her previous portrayals.

If you find a reliable source that supports what you're saying, (though like I said, this is already close as it is), you'd probably want to model your additions to be similar to this. Sergecross73 msg me 15:31, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Try to find more sources like the G4 TV one. I think you have a great point, and accusations of sexism are probably rooted in reality. CaseyPenk (talk) 15:54, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Douse Second Truth that I provided in the above section count because I tried to add her character decline on the Damsel in distress pages but it was deleted several times. I tried to discuss it but a user said it was a personal view but I said it was general views both from the writers perspective and the viewers perspective and so far I have received no response. --58.7.111.155 (talk) 10:08, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Have you read everything I just said in this section here? Because it sounds like the exact same thing I just explained. You need reliable sources to back up what you say. If you're talking about this edit, it was removed because it was written like a personal essay, without any sources to back up what is said.

The sources come from the information from the games, books and comics. --58.7.111.155 (talk) 10:27, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

lol --Niemti (talk) 10:50, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Those are WP:PRIMARY sources. While those are good at sourcing information (for example, gameplay plot) putting it in reception is inappropriate. Thanks CyanGardevoir 01:01, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Not only that, but surely, while the games/books/comics may provide information, there's no way they provided the literal value judgements that the IP was throwing out there. It's not like Nintendo licensed a comic that literally comes out and says "We're going to portray Samus in a more sexist light" or something. Those were WP:OR conclusions... Sergecross73 msg me 02:36, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

The chronicles of her character decline were probably unintentional before Metroid Fusion but after the realese of MF they deliberately brought her down since the franchise has recived major critism since 2002. Alomst like how The Simpsons characters were deliberately brought down in 1998 at the begining of the first episode of season 9 since the DVDs beyond the eigth season aren't in print. --120.151.106.44 (talk) 04:03, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

I believe the next Metroid will downgrade her character even further in which she is removed from the spotlight and a is replaced by a male who rescues her similar to Peach or Zelda. The ratings will be so poor that it would end the franchise completely and permanently. --58.7.138.14 (talk) 10:46, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Would you all kindly stop using this talk page as a forum for original reaearch and your POV feelings, and notice the section just below it? Thanks. --Niemti (talk) 10:55, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorry I just fell like I'm being targeted at being labelled a The chronicles of her character decline were probably unintentional before Metroid Fusion but after the realese of MF they deliberately brought her down since the franchise has recived major critism since 2002. Alomst like how The Simpsons characters were deliberately brought down in 1998 at the begining of the first episode of season 9 since the DVDs beyond the eigth season aren't in print. --120.151.106.44 (talk) 04:03, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Would you all kindly stop using this talk page as a forum for original reaearch and your POV feelings, and notice the section just below it? Thanks. --Niemti (talk) 10:55, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorry I will stop now I just feel targeted for being called a chauvinist because I happen to be a male. I have posted those sources in the reference section but I couldn't get them to be numbered can someone else number them along with the rest. --58.7.138.14 (talk) 11:13, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

A few more sources that you might use for Reception

--Niemti (talk) 09:02, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

So, how do you like the brand new Reception section?

--Niemti (talk) 18:10, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and these links above are already used. --Niemti (talk) 18:11, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

I think some copy edit might be needed (grammar, flow). --Niemti (talk) 18:19, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Also are these huge enormous quotes in the references really necessary? --Niemti (talk) 18:23, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

I guess not. --Niemti (talk) 07:57, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

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