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Talk:Augusto Pinochet

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Not neutral

This post has been hijacked by market theocrats. I think we need to dispute the nuetrality of this article. 71.252.208.46 (talk) 09:35, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

This article is not neutral, he was a dictator, not a president. --190.164.177.56 (talk) 08:19, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

He was both. The article explains that. Raymond Dundas (talk) 08:22, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
If he wasn't president but dictator (no problem with it), same should be indicated under Fidel Castro ( but it isn't... strange, isn't it? ) --194.203.215.254 (talk) 08:22, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Heart attack

link "AUGUSTO PINOCHET has been given the last rites after a massive heart attack left the former Chilean strongman clinging to life.


“His fate is in the hands of God and his doctors,” the former dictator’s son Marco Antonio Pinochet Hiriart said yesterday as his father remained conscious and in a stable condition.

Juan Ignacio Vergara, a doctor treating the retired general, said 91-year-old Pinochet’s life was “in danger”. State television later reported that doctors had decided to carry out heart bypass surgery."

someone should add a mention of this in the article and add the 'current event' tag.

I'm Catholic, and I suppose I should hope that God forgave Gen. Pinochet, despite the bad things he did. I guess none of us believers will ever know. The man caused so much pain though, on so many innocent people simply because they were not right wing. So sad to have lived his life that way.

==Pinochet's 91st birthday statement to the World

Why did Pinochet take full responsibility for his actions now at 91, its as if his offsprings made him write that so as to absolve all of them of their complicity in his crimes. What about that 3cubic meters of gold that was supposedly deposited in Hong Kong? How many tons of Gold did Pinochet deposit there? What was he trying to do? What is this guy doing writing statements now at 91 wasn't he declared unfit to stand trial about 6 years; didn't he have dementia.


Well my deer friend you are a complete ignorant. You can take the title. The gold that was deposited in Hong Kong was proven false and it was a plan to try and frame Pinochet. It was recognized and shown that he never deposited those gold bars. Pinochet saved Chile and my family from communism. Maybe you have never lived in a communist country but I ll tell you ask anyone in Eastern Europe, Cuba, Venezuela, or Chile you will see its nothing pretty when you have nothing to eat while your leaders travel around in luxury like Allende did. Hopefully I have enlighten you into this subject and I do recommend people from other countries to really inform themselves on the economic progress that Chile made and the hardships endured during the Allende government.

Article quality and cleanup

This article is generally pretty bad. Because of a very strong desire to crucify Pinochet within this article it has become long and bloated. A lot of the material should be moved to separate articles. For instance the article on the election is way too detailed and should just be put in a separate article. A lot of the article consists of unfounded opinions which are not attributed to anyone e.g. 1) Pinochet coup was done so he could implement neoliberal reforms, 2) All doubts about human right abuses have been stilled due to detailed reports etc. These types of things are stated in such a way that they have become opinions. Opinions cannot be original in an encyclopedia. They must be attributed to someone.

Ok I think Melromero has basically fixed this article up. It is very nice now. Thanks Melromero!

This article should remove text such as "took office", which implies attaining office via a democratic election. Such text should be replaced with a more accurate statement such as "seized office" or "seized power".

School of the Americas/WHISC

There is evidence of Pinochet's spending time at the school of the America's. Many who oppose the school cite his involvement as a reason to be against the school. I believe therefore that something should be mentioned.----georgiew

Thank You

Don't know if I can do this on this page but I would like to thank the administrator for doing a good job being impartial. Such as by not labelling Pinochet as a dictator but a head of military junta. If left wing strongmen like Castro are not labelled dictators than neither should right wing strongmen. Previously I noticed this trend (which was biased) in wikipedia but now it seems to have improved.

Comment: According to the Misplaced Pages definition of a dictator, Fidel Castro shouldn´t be called so because he wasn´t appointed by the senate or other government institution to take the place of head of state during a crisis. He actually took over the government and dissolved its institutions.

I went to the dictator page and Castro is listed as a benevolent dictator. Most dictators come to power due to putches and revolutions. Saddam Hussein came to power in this way and everyone calls him a dictator. So are Pinochet and Castro. But since the word, 'dictator' is so taboo better not to label anyone a dictator rather than just labeling right wing strongmen as such.

Please Observe Proper Flag Etiquette in Articles

Flag Etiquette:

A flag is flown on a STAFF when on land.

A flag is flown on a MAST when on a ship.

When a flag is lowered in mourning on land, it is flown at HALF STAFF.

When a flag is lowered in mourning on a ship, it is flown at HALF MAST.


Thank you . . .

Strange sentence

"Some political scientists have ascribed the relative bloodiness of the coup to the stability of the existing democratic system, which required extreme action to overturn." Seems to contraict itself. Rich Farmbrough, 13:48 11 December 2006 (GMT).

Legacy

ETREMELY BIASED. Although Pinochet is widely viewed as a tyrant, and from any objective measure was a dictator, having led a military junta that ruled Chile for two decades, of the 248 words written in the "Legacy" section only 5 express such a viewpoint, the rest extoll his contributions to Chilean "democracy". Not only is this Orwellian nonsense, but a clear, glaring violation of both wikipedia's NPOV standards, as well as common-sense, drawing the legacy of a dictator's biography into a hagiography of a "defender of democracy". So until someone wants to write a neutral and accurate assesment of Pinochet, I have removed the fascist apologia of the Legacy section in its entirety, quoted below--

"Pinochet's legacy has been debated continuously. Some view him as a brutal dictator while others credit him for saving Chile from communism, recovering political and economical stability, and implementing bold economic reforms that brought unprecedented prosperity.

After the 1973 coup, Pinochet said, “We only set ourselves the task of transforming Chile into a democratic society of free men and women." His supporters made similar claims. Former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, for example, thanked the General for "bringing democracy to Chile". Historian James Whelan, writing in the May 2007 edition of the American Spectator also praised Pinochet for bringing economic progress to Chile. When in power, Pinochet gave a series of speeches that indicate that the 1973 coup targeted not only Allende's Popular Unity government, but Chilean democracy itself, which the General saw as hopelessly flawed. In wording that Pinochet repeated several times in various speeches, he claimed that Chile had been “slave and victim of the Congress since 1925, and slave and victim of the political parties.” Arguing for an "organic" type of democracy, Pinochet contended that “Merely formal democracy dissolves itself, victim of a demagogy that substitutes simple, unattainable promises for social justice and economic prosperity.” That form of democracy would inevitably result in a Marxist dictatorship, according to his analysis. Chilean democracy, therefore, was “progressively socializing in its economic experiments.... Those who thought they could detain or control this evolution... were given proof under the Marxist regime of their impotence and incomprehensible lack of vision.”"

Return to Democracy

This is not NPOV wording., especially in view of the electorate voting for him before the plebiscite. Please do not reinsert this language--Die4Dixie (talk) 19:24, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Diexie you're entitled to your opinion no to your facts. I will shortly be posting a list of mainstream sources that clearly and explicitly say that 1989-1990 were the years in which democracy was reinstated in Chile. Likeminas (talk) 19:36, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
By the way, you're clearly deleting sourced content, as you probably know that amounts to vandalism. Please stop. Likeminas (talk) 19:38, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Please read mainstream sources:

Need I post more? There's plenty where those came from. This is the mainstream view on the Chilean transition to democracy, so please do not add minority views on the lead as they clearlt violate WP:NPOV and WP:WEIGHT. Needless is to say that deleting sourced content as you did here amount to vandalism and might be reported to an administrator for review. Likeminas (talk) 20:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Please find some reliable sources for fascist. Mainstream, please. I missed the Italian WW2 connection. Natioanl socialist? Pinochet? No, sir, it is you who play loose with facts. An election in which all could participate is not Democracy? Facts are facts, regardless of what leftist propoganda says.--68.35.239.206 (talk) 00:00, 19 September 2009 (UTC)--Die4Dixie (talk) 00:01, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
OK, first, "Die4Dixie", turn spell-check on in your broswer. Second, your name leaves little to be guessed at in terms of your politics. "Fascist" does not necessitate a connected with Italy or National Socialism. As per the lead sentence in the wikipedia entry, "Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, comprises a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideologyand a corporatist economic ideology..." This is practically a picture perfect description of what existed in Chile under Pinochet. Now please stop removing sourced content. This has nothing to do with bias. A Google search for "Pinochet" and "fascist" brings back 2,960,000 results. Would you like me to add more of those to the article to please you? Frank Pais (talk) 13:58, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Proposed addition to intro

In accordance with the HTML comment, I'm submitting this here first. Suggested addition:

Original Spanish pronunciation , in English usually Template:Pron-en (US), /ˑpiːnoʊʃeɪ/ (UK),

Wells, John C. (1990). Longman pronunciation dictionary. Harlow, England: Longman. p. 537. ISBN 0582053838. entry "Pinochet"

  1. Wells, John C. (1990). Longman pronunciation dictionary. Harlow, England: Longman. p. 537. ISBN 0582053838. entry "Pinochet"
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