< Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration | Cold fusion

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This is a page for working on Arbitration decisions. The Arbitrators, parties to the case, and other editors may draft proposals and post them to this page for review and comments. Proposals may include proposed general principles, findings of fact, remedies, and enforcement provisions—the same format as is used in Arbitration Committee decisions. The bottom of the page may be used for overall analysis of the /Evidence and for general discussion of the case.

Any user may edit this workshop page. Please sign all suggestions and comments. Arbitrators will place proposed items they believe should be part of the final decision on the /Proposed decision page, which only Arbitrators and clerks may edit, for voting, clarification as well as implementation purposes.

Motions and requests by the parties

Goal: Rules to establish the basis of NPOV

1) Among other things, this arbitration case should result in rule(s) describing "how to determine the preponderence of opinion that is the basis of NPOV for scientific matter".

Comment by Arbitrators:

No, we're not going to rule on content here. Kirill 00:21, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment by parties:

I suggest that we first come to an agreement on some of the goals that we want to reach in this arbitration. Hence this motion. I'll be happy to provide more goals if this approach is adequate. Pcarbonn (talk) 16:09, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment by others:

Good God, please, no. These determinations have always been made through editorial discussion. The occasions when ArbCom has dipped their toes in this water have been largely disastrous. The issue here seems to be behavioral; that is, despite the existence of a plethora of good sources with which to determine appropriate weighting and context, discussion seems to have fossilized and degenerated, largely as a result of editorial intransigence and single-mindedness. MastCell 18:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Not going to happen, as it is essentially a request for ArbCom to rule that being "right" is a defence in cases of advocacy and POV-pushing. Guy (Help!) 18:33, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Request to add Kirk shanahan as a party

2) Kirk shanahan (talk · contribs) is added to the case as a named party.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Ok, add him. Kirill 20:55, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment by parties:

I've just come across evidence of COI editing on cold fusion by another account. This needs to be investigated and resolved. See Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Cold fusion/Evidence#Kirk shanahan has engaged in COI editing. Jehochman 20:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Notified. Jehochman 20:55, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

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Proposed temporary injunctions

Mediation case

1) Case pages of the mediation (which were public at the time and continued to be so until deleted post-facto) should be undeleted for the duration of this case.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comments made as part of a formal mediation case are exempt from being considered as evidence in arbitration. Given that, I don't see any substantive reason for the case to be undeleted. Kirill 20:53, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

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Proposed. Guy (Help!) 18:32, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Topic ban

2) User:Pcarbonn and User:Kevin Baas topic-banned from the article Cold fusion and related articles until such time as this arbitration case is resolved.

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Several editors in good standing have given credible evidence that Pcarbonn is here primarily to advocate a fringe view and distort Misplaced Pages to "fix" the real-world "problem" that the majority of scientists either ignore or ridicule cold fusion. Kevin Baas appears to be a supporter (check today's edits to the article). I believe both should be topic-banned during this arbitration. I do not mind if everybody who is party to the case is topic-banned, including me. This is for the prevention of disruption. Guy (Help!) 20:26, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

The offensiveness aside, seeing as I rarely edit the article anyways, I don't see why this would matter. And feel free to check "today's' (yesterday's) edits to the article. In fact, I'll give you the diff of the only edit i made that day: diff. It was a revert. Someone had moved a sentence to put it in chronological order like the rest of the intro. I prefer chronological order because i think order can be non-neutral and chronological order is one way to protect against that. They also added the sentence "The panel identified a number of basic science research areas that could be helpful in resolving some of the controversies in the field." Which is true and pertinent and neutral and from the same report. One might argue that it's not as significant as the rest of the material in the intro. But in any case the guy wrote in his summary that he was putting it in chrono order and quoting the report more fully. Then some guy reverted it, saying that the edit summary was false. Now the edit summary was clearly accurate, and so that guy's edit summary was, ironically, false. Now if an edit summary being described as false when it's not actually false is reason enough to revert, and Guy certainly doesn't seems to have a problem with it, then reverting an edit summary that actually IS inaccurate AND puts material out of order is clearly acceptable -- by Guy's standards, at least.

Also, Guy seems to be suggesting that preferring something to be in chronological order and edit summaries to be accurate is disruptive and makes you a cold fusion supporter. And furthermore that being a supporter of cold fusion is grounds for banning. In the many encounters I've had with Guy on wikipedia, I've come to expect these sorts of arguments. I hope i'm not unintentionally building a straw man here. It's just that when i dissect the logic, that's how the argument reads to me. i don't see anything else there. I make one small edit for writting style, and all of the sudden i'm branded as a radical POV-pusher who should be banned for being so disruptive. I find that a little hard to fathom. Kevin Baas 20:12, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

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Questions to the parties

Proposed final decision

Proposals by Kirill Lokshin

Proposed principles

Purpose of Misplaced Pages

1) The purpose of Misplaced Pages is to create a high-quality, free-content encyclopedia in an atmosphere of camaraderie and mutual respect among contributors. Use of the site for other purposes, such as advocacy or propaganda, furtherance of outside conflicts, publishing or promoting original research, and political or ideological struggle, is prohibited.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Standard. Kirill 21:08, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

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Conduct of Misplaced Pages editors

2) Misplaced Pages users are expected to behave reasonably, calmly, and courteously in their interactions with other users; to approach even difficult situations in a dignified fashion and with a constructive and collaborative outlook; and to avoid acting in a manner that brings the project into disrepute. Unseemly conduct, such as personal attacks, incivility, assumptions of bad faith, harassment, disruptive point-making, and gaming the system, is prohibited.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Standard. Kirill 21:08, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

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Misplaced Pages editorial process

3) Misplaced Pages works by building consensus through the use of polite discussion – involving the wider community, if necessary – and dispute resolution, rather than through disruptive editing. Editors are each responsible for noticing when a debate is escalating into an edit war, and for helping the debate move to better approaches by discussing their differences rationally. Edit-warring, whether by reversion or otherwise, is prohibited; this is so even when the disputed content is clearly problematic.

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Standard. Kirill 21:08, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

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Proposals by User:Jehochman

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Proposed findings of fact

Cold fusion is covered by WP:FRINGE

1) As of 2008, Cold fusion is a notable fringe theory.

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Proposed. I think this should not be controversial. Jehochman 22:03, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

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Pcarbonn has engaged in advocacy

2) Pcarbonn has violated Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not by editing the article cold fusion for the purpose of advocacy.

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Proposed. I think the evidence bears this out. Jehochman 22:06, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Oppose. WP:ISNOT says that Misplaced Pages should not contain advocacy content, but can report objectively about such advocacy. I have stayed within that principle, and always sticked to reliable sources. WP:ISNOT does NOT say anything about whether users can be advocates or not.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Pcarbonn (talk • contribs)

Show me even a single diff where you have written for the enemy. If your goal is to provide complete and accurate coverage of the topic, you would be covering all points of view, not just the one you favor. Jehochman 17:26, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I've been writing for the enemy many times. (some examples: ) When I have erred in my advocacy, I have always accepted feedback. However, I have always strongly resisted the extreme opinion supposedly supported by "the mainstream", but not by the reliable sources. Pcarbonn (talk) 11:32, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I see some gnome-like helpful edits. In their midst, I see this removal of a scientific explanation for the observation of so called excess heat in cold fusion experiments. Can you explain why you removed that chunk of sourced content? Jehochman 14:13, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

The content I removed in that diff was the result of Shkedi's push during mediation, a clear case of WP:COI that I did not raise at that time. It gave undue weight to one of the many criticisms of Fleischmann & Pons, a weight that is not supported by secondary sources. Still, because it is valuable content, I did add this text back when I created this subpage, (and that was unrequested by the way), and that subpage is still accessible from the current version of our article. I have thus no desire to remove it. Pcarbonn (talk) 16:03, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Could you be more collaborative and less adversarial in your dealings with other editors? I recognize you have edited in a very narrow area, one which is subject to much more adversarial action than normal. Diversifying your editing would probably help you gain perspective. If you have strong feelings about a topic, you need to recognize that and make extra efforts to adhere to WP:NPOV. I will be more impressed if you are able to critique your behavior than if you defend it as completely perfect. Self-criticism is a path towards improvement. None of us are perfect, eh. Jehochman 16:10, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm surprised by your comment. I have responded to your questions, and I don't see how I have been adversarial to you. I welcome your feedback on what I should do differently. Pcarbonn (talk) 16:23, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment by others:

Clearly true, and by his own admission. It is perfectly possible that this is a misunderstanding by Pcarbonn of the purpose and policies of Misplaced Pages, but that does not change the facts as presented in evidence. Guy (Help!) 20:28, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

ScienceApologist

2) ScienceApologist, while upholding Misplaced Pages's goals on many occasions, has also engaged in problematic behaviors, ~~including~~ such as violations of decorum, personal attacks, disruption ~~and~~ or gaming the rules.

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Proposed. I think the evidence bears this out also. Jehochman 22:06, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment by others:

Not sure about gaming, but certainly SA shows many signs of burnout. We must find a better way of supporting those who patrol articles for fringe and pseudoscience advocacy. Guy (Help!) 20:29, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

My proposed remedy below would aim to do that. I am now going to add a specific remedy for ScienceApologist. Jehochman 21:24, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

ScienceApologist, multiple accounts

3) ScienceApologist has edited while logged out, including reverts made in the midst of editing conflicts with other editors.

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Proposed. The evidence for this is at this page version. Jehochman 21:43, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

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Proposed remedies

Note: All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.

Discretionary sanctions: fringe theories

1) Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict (defined as articles which relate to fringe theories, broadly interpreted) if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. The sanctions imposed may include blocks of up to one year in length; bans from editing any page or set of pages within the area of conflict; bans on any editing related to the topic or its closely related topics; restrictions on reverts or other specified behaviors; or any other measures which the imposing administrator believes are reasonably necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of the project.

Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision by an uninvolved administrator; and, where appropriate, should be counseled on specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines.

In determining whether to impose sanctions on a given user and which sanctions to impose, administrators should use their judgment and balance the need to assume good faith and avoid biting genuinely inexperienced editors, and the desire to allow responsible contributors maximum freedom to edit, with the need to reduce edit-warring and misuse of Misplaced Pages as a battleground, so as to create an acceptable collaborative editing environment even on our most contentious articles. Editors wishing to edit in these areas are advised to edit carefully, to adopt Misplaced Pages's communal approaches (including appropriate conduct, dispute resolution, neutral point of view, no original research and verifiability) in their editing, and to amend behaviors that are deemed to be of concern by administrators. An editor unable or unwilling to do so may wish to restrict their editing to other topics, in order to avoid sanctions.

Appeals

Sanctions imposed under the provisions of this decision may be appealed to the imposing administrator, the appropriate administrators' noticeboard (currently Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement), or the Committee. Administrators are cautioned not to reverse such sanctions without familiarizing themselves with the full facts of the matter and engaging in extensive discussion and consensus-building at the administrators' noticeboard or another suitable on-wiki venue. The Committee will consider appropriate remedies including suspension or revocation of adminship in the event of violations.

Uninvolved administrators

For the purpose of imposing sanctions under this provision, an administrator will be considered "uninvolved" if he or she is not engaged in a current, direct, personal conflict on the topic with the user receiving sanctions. Enforcing the provisions of this decision will not be considered to be participation in a dispute. Any doubt regarding whether an administrator qualifies under this definition is to be treated as any other appeal of sanctions.

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This is big, but we have seen problems over and over and over again in the fringe theory articles. I believe this would resolve the matter with cold fusion and all similarly positioned articles. This remedy was not my own brilliant work. I have copied it from Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience. Jehochman 21:57, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Hopefully this remedy will save good faith editors in these areas from getting burned out. Jehochman 21:44, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment by others:

I do not think that giving special admin powers is a good for Misplaced Pages in general. Instead it should be made clear that POV-pushing is not acceptable, even when done politely. Admins can then block the offending editor as for other kinds of disruptive editing. A special admin power with unique rules for application and appeal would only be used in high-profile cases. It is better to empower the ordinary editors who fight daily to keep articles about fringe theories neutral by giving them backup in policy and ArbCom precedent. --Apoc2400 (talk) 01:38, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

OK, but... in an ideal world, I'd like to see some formal notation of the fact that this project's goal is to create a serious, respected reference work. I appreciate egalitarianism and civility as much as the next person, but those are means to an end, not an end in themselves. If this project is to be taken seriously, then its coverage of fringe issues needs to mirror that seen in serious, respected reference works. Editing which moves us closer to that goal benefits the encyclopedia, whereas editing that moves us away from that goal is just as harmful as vandalism or cussing (if not more so). This is not a license to be uncivil or to edit-war, but I think that admins enforcing such a sanction need to start with the idea that we're trying to create a serious reference work, rather than trying to create a Utopian online community. But now I'm the one on a soapbox... MastCell 18:32, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

ScienceApologist good faith restriction and account limitation

2) For a period of three months ScienceApologist is restricted from making accusations, complaints, or derogatory comments about other editors' behavior on article talk pages, those editors' own talk pages, or Misplaced Pages noticeboards. Should ScienceApologist feel the need to comment on another editor's behavior, they may contact any administrator via email or use the administrator's talk to express concerns. ScienceApologist is additionally restricted to using one and only one account to edit. They should exercise great care not to edit while logged out.

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Proposed. SA is too prone to losing his cool. The purpose of this restriction is to prevent disruption caused by incivility, assumptions of bad faith, forum shopping or gaming the rules that tends to occur when SA engages in policing activities. Good intentions do not excuse poor judgment. Jehochman 21:40, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment by others:

" making derogatory comments about other editors " is already prohibited by wikipedia policy for everyone. Therefore this restriction is completely unnecessary. Rather than introduce multiple layers of redundant restrictions and warnings, I would suggest simply applying policy evenly to all editors. Dlabtot (talk) 20:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I have added the word "behavior" to make clear that he's not allowed to file complaints of any sort. Jehochman 20:08, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe SA should be able to use the dispute resolution process just like any other editor. And in doing so, he should abide by policy, and be accountable for his edits, just like any other editor. Dlabtot (talk) 20:18, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

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Proposals by User:JzG

Proposed principles

Representation of sources

1) WP:V, WP:NPOV and WP:NOR are core policies. Where a source is discussed it should be discussed, for preference, by reference to correctly attributed discussion in reliable independent secondary sources. Where a primary source is discussed directly, any summary should accurately and completely reflect the summaries within the source itself (e.g. the conclusion of a scientific report, the lead of a journalistic article). To represent a source by synthesis of material from within the article is editorialising and is not acceptable.

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Per my evidence section Original research, undue weight, management of same Guy (Help!) 22:26, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

As I edit articles, I try to write for a "reasonable person" , which means I imagine what a typical wikipedia reader will absorb from an article. In the cold fusion case, that means that they should not leave the article with the idea that mainstream scientists have "turned a corner" on accepting the validity of cold fusion. I looked through WP:NPOV, WP:FRINGE, and WP:WEIGHT, but did find any discussion of a "reasonable reader." Perhaps wikipedia guidelines should incorporate that as a guiding principle. Olorinish (talk) 13:47, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

WP:LEAD

2) The lead of an article should reflect the mainstream view of the subject. Minority points of view may be discussed within the body of an article, and the article may indeed document a significant or well-documented fringe or minority view, but the lead must reflect the field as viewed "from the outside".

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Guy (Help!) 22:29, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I support this in principle. Add "science" before "article" above since "mainstream" may not be possible to establish for political topics etc. Replace "from the outside" with "by the most reputable sources and scientific bodies". This is standard practice in articles like intelligent design, where the opinion of NAS is mentioned in the lead. Even if the majority of American citizens (an outside view) decided that ID is true, we shouldn't be changing that article. Another caveat is that a minority view may be necessary to state what the article is about, so I'd say something like "Qualitative judgments in the lead of a science article should reflect the mainstream view of the subject. Minority points of view may be discussed within the body of an article, and the article may indeed document a significant or well-documented fringe or minority view, but the lead must reflect the field as viewed by the most reputable sources and scientific bodies." But is ArbCom the right place to discuss policy changes like this? Pcap ping 07:45, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

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Pcarbonn

1) Pcarbonn is banned for one year from editing any article related to cold fusion, broadly construed.

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Thus far Pcarbonn has demonstrate an attitude that they have done nothing wrong. Therefore, external controls are needed. Jehochman 21:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

If Pcarbonn demonstrates awareness of concerns and addresses them, this could be relaxed or eliminated. Jehochman 16:12, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

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Someone has to say it. Guy (Help!) 20:31, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Overt abuse of process. Banning should be done for consistent disruptive policy violations, not on account of differences of opinion. Kevin Baas 19:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Persistent stonewalling, frustration of consensus, or argumentum ad nauseum are all good reasons for a topic ban. Jehochman 19:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

That would possibly be consistent disruptive policy violations. And ScienceApologist would be more guilty of that than Pcarbonn. And in any case, something like that would go to mediation first, because it may be simply that one party isn't listening or something; it may be a problem with communication that can be resolved constructively. Kevin Baas 20:28, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

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Proposals by User:Pohta ce-am pohtit

Proposed principles

Reliability of scientific sources

1) The reliability of a scientific source should take into account the authors and venue. Classifying one source as more reliable than another based solely on the format of the two is against the spirit of WP:SOURCES. For instance, a peer-reviewed paper in an obscure journal should not be necessarily considered more reliable than a government report or more reliable than a news report in a flagship journal.

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Rationale: Pcarbonn has played a shell game with the source categories from WP:SOURCES to advance dubious sources as more reliable than mainstream ones (see my evidence section). Some editors where lulled into this game, and too few objected to this superficial method of classifying sources. Pcap ping 08:14, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

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Proposals by User:Kevin Baas

Proposed principles

Arbitration is not to be used to resolve differences of opinion

1) Banning a user from an article is not an appropriate remedy for a difference of opinion. Contributors who differ in opinion are expected to work together with reasoned discussion.

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"Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it." -- Thomas Jefferson Kevin Baas 19:16, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

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Not relevant to this case. At issue is not the existence of differing opinions, but the insistence of some editors on placing advocacy ahead of the project's policies. Banning a user from an article is an entirely appropriate remedy in such a situation. We wouldn't be here if these contributors could "work together with reasoned discussion". MastCell 19:50, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Ofcourse nobody is arguing whether there are differences of opinion - there clearly are. Being an advocate of a position is not in and of itself a violation of policy and goals - one has to show specific policy violations w/evidence. Some of those policies concern resolving disputes. When an advocate of a position, such as ScienceApologist, uses process to intimidate or censor views people who are not doing anything wrong, whether they accuse them of advocacy or not is immaterial. Ofcourse they're going to accuse the other person of advocacy, and argue that the other person is placing advocacy ahead of the project's policies. That is the default strategy; that is how you get a user that you have a difference of opinion with banned. Whether they provide sufficient evidence to support their claim, that's a different story. In any case, the principle stands: that tactic is not to be condoned, and contributors who differ in opinion ARE expected to work together with reasoned discussion. If that principle doesn't stand then, well, that would be dangerous.

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