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    Ashtul

    Ashtul topic-banned indefinitely, with provision for reconsideration after six months. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:50, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Ashtul

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Nomoskedasticity (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:29, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Ashtul (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#General_1RR_restriction :
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 12:27, 22 February 2015 (UTC) revert removes paragraph
    2. 11:12, 23 February 2015 (UTC) 1RR violation -- removes a paragraph again, <24 hours after the first time
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    • Previous block notice for 1RR violation:
    • I/P topic ban: , subsequently lifted by HJ Mitchell,
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    • Report originally posted at AN3; moved here on suggestion by another editor.
    • Ashtul continues to insist (on ever more bizarre grounds) that the edit violating 1RR was okay. This does not bode well. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 16:11, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    • Re Ashtul's claim not to be a POV-pusher -- since other admins have already noted that POV-pushing is exactly what is going on here, perhaps it's not necessary to specify it, but just in case: consider this edit, which adds a claim (co-existence, side-by-side) that uses a source not meeting WP:RS and another one (Y-net) that does't support the text. The POV is that the occupation is good for the Palestinians -- they don't mind it, they benefit from it economically, they work "side by side" next to Israelis in "co-existence" -- and yet the only source that supports those claims is one that quotes the head of a settlement regional council. The claim to this effect is nonetheless added without attribution, as if it were fact. This sort of editing is pervasive in this editor's contributions -- and so the claim that he is not a POV-pusher is especially troubling because it shows unwillingness to own up to what is perfectly evident. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 16:01, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Ashtul

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Ashtul

    A lot more to consider
    Preemptive quick resolution

    The edit in question is completely insignificant and was returned by Nishidani only due to the massive rollback he has done to other changes. Before getting into a long discussion, I asked Nishidani to comment on it which can resolve this AE request quickly with none of us wasting any additional time. Ashtul (talk) 20:43, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

    Long dirty road

    I have asked Nishidani to admit the text in question should have been removed but he dodged the request claiming it is 'irrelevant'. I will demonstrate why it is and later the background for this.

    1. The text removed has been on Misplaced Pages in some form since at least 2010, not added by Nishidani.
    2. The text removed is completely outdated and false as Beitar Illit is by now a city and the other content is redundant due to recent addition.
    3. The article has recently went through massive addition and needed a lot of work (9k->14k). The rewrite was done in a rush and obvious issues such as duplicate sections (History vs. History and today) were left which is where the text in question is located.
    4. Before any of the changes took place, 100s of word of discussion were written here and on Talk:Community settlement (Israel). Nishidani was impossible to argue with , Cptnono wrote 'Regardless, have you taken a look at Ashtul's reasoning, Nishidani? I don't know enough about those details but it is intriguing enough that merely blowing off is not the best thing to do'.
    5. The change in question was done as two series of with the first including 16 changes, all step by step so other users can follow the logic and revert a single change if they disagree. The first series took over an hour to compile (11:22, 22 February 2015‎ to 14:27, 22 February 2015 with an obvious break in between). Nishidani made a quick WP:ROLLBACK revert (kept one change and added some content) with the cheerful description Failure to read the sources or if read, misinterpreting them. Describing as WP:OR statements in the sources, etc. General incompetence. Please note, the revert in question isn't referred to neither there is't an explanation is supplied in an appropriate location, such as at the relevant talk page as demanded here. In a way, it can be called WP:Vandalism as Nishidani revert included return of WP:OR, removing new source and removal of content that seems redundant.

    So to summery, this 'revert' is eliminating old content during a rewrite of an article with obvious need for love. In a duplicate section - old, false, redundant content was removed for the second time after a massive, careless revert by Nishidani.

    I will publish very relevant background in a bit. Ashtul (talk) 06:15, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


    Background

    I was blocked then topic banned, then blocked for breaking the topic ban then pardoned. HJ Mitchell demanded I will 'keep a respectful distance from Nishidani'.

    Nishidani admittedly was aware of this requirement as he was pinged to the page. "Naturally" his instinct was to WP:HOUND me in order to get in my face and provoke me by massive edits to the two pages I recently edited, Community settlement (Israel) and Barkan Industrial Park. I know I should WP:AGF but with WP:POVPUSH statements such as 'Israeli-occupied West Bank', 'in the Occupied Territories' and elimination of my edit 'At Barkan Industrial Park, thousands of Israelis and Palestinians coexist and work side by side in many of the factories', which was already eliminated before twice by other members of the pack Nomoskedasticity and Huldra, it has diminished (I'll touch on the pack practice later).

    Nishidani has since apologized and admitted for possible wrongdoing (20:26, 23 February 2015), which was after the original WarEdit complaint was filed by Nomoskedasticity (14:09, 23 February 2015). Yet, it didn't occur to him to ask Nomoskedasticity to drop this complaint.

    Now I want to explain 'The Pack' which I've mentioned earlier. It is quite a fascinating phenomenon to see users Nomoskedasticity, Huldra, Nishidani and Zero0000 keep on popping on the same pages, reverting the same content. It seems like a great system that prevents anyone for making a case for a WP:WAR Examples can be found here, here, here (around 21:38, 17 January 2015), here (around 19:29, 18 January 2015‎), and here. I am not sure if I'll go as far as blaming them for active WP:Canvassing, but it happened enough times around me to shows a pattern.

    • Another claim of WP:WAR was raised by Nishidani for Karmei Tzur. It is completely bogus and part of this witch-hunt. I have deleted three stories that I thought weren't notable enough. A claim for POVPUSH will be completely false as one of them was about stone throwing where nobody died. I've then realized an image was related to one of those and thus deleted it as well. Nableezy disagree over the importance of two of the stories and returned them along with the picture. The only issue is, the picture is related to the story he chose to leave out. I haven't noticed it at first, but once I did, I removed it. I have asked Nableezy to comment on this matter.

    I think at this point I have wrote everything I have about why the revert in question (and the one second one) weren't WP:WAR, WP:1RR but rather the duty of an editor to correction of a mistake done by the previous revert where opposition is unlikely.

    If this isn't enough of an explanation maybe Nishidani is right and I have notable problems. Since my topic ban was lifted I opened an RfD (which concluded with consensus in a few days and effected tens of articles) and RfC (so far, the two answers support my position - 'rampant POV-pushing and totally unacceptable') exactly to eliminate this type of conflicts.

    If this does sound reasonable, I would like a mechanism to be put in place so The Pack won't gang on me again.

    Cheers, Ashtul (talk) 08:17, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

    Over 36 hours after this request was submitted and the editor who actually did the changes in question, Nishidani, hasn't bother to comment though he was fully aware of it. This was a great stunt aimed to waste my time. Ashtul (talk) 12:11, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
    Thank you Nishidani for an elaborate response. Some of these are legitimate content conflicts or correction of bad judgement of another editor. Yet, you haven't touched on the 'revert' in question in which the content was redundant, outdated and in duplicate section (History vs. History and today) due to your new contribution. You should have removed it yourself after the rollback. To go after me b/c of it with AE complaint is #@$%*&#%@#$ and bad faith!!! Ashtul (talk) 18:06, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
    It all comes down to a simple question, Nishidani, Do you think the material in the revert should have been removed? or was it your mistake (or simple lack of attention) putting it back in?. The revert was not WP:WAR or anything even close to that.
    Karmei Tzur isn't even 1RR not to mention once again remove a picture which referred to text that was left out by the reverting editor. Nableezy seems to be on wikibreak but I have no doubt he would confirm it. Ashtul (talk) 12:32, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    Response to Nishidani complaint about my allegations

    I have wrote on your page within hours of this request, asking you to admit the material should have been removed. You went in circles and wouldn't do it because this of course will dissolve this whole request. All was left was to tell the full story.

    Let me ask you again, should the material removed be included in the article? Ashtul (talk) 12:46, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

    Regarding 'Ofra-Likud' edits - whoever read the text understand the Likud government helped Ofra in 1975 but this is impossible since Likud won elections only in 1977. This is beyond dispute.
    What I said in length on HJ Mitchell talk page was that the sources you have chosen to work with will be confusing b/c CS and WBS are two different animals even if they have a lot of historical and current relations between them. The sources you introduced talk mainly about WBS and touch on CS in a way that even myself, as an Israeli would probably have issue distinguishing when they are talking about what. Thus the removal of your sentence was justified and not POVPUSH not to mention I wrote it myself once there was a clear source that stated it.
    About Galilee and Palestinian state -
    1. Lets start with the fact you didn't put a source next to it before I took it all out..
    2. The 3 sources you write about proves my previous point - you (or the source) aren't clear of WBS vs CS. Obviously he speaks of WBS as CS exist also in Galilee which the int'l community doesn't see as future Palestinian state.
    You claim I wrote the grabbed sentence "monitoring may have a particular shared ideology, religious perspective, or desired lifestyle which they wish to perpetuate by accepting only like-minded individuals" but in fact it was you. I merely deleted the statement before.
    So to sum this up, in a click of a button you rolled back 16 changes I have made. The one in the diffs for this AE request was your mistake and you don't even have the decency to say it out loud and lets us all put this ridicules waste of time behind us. Ashtul (talk) 23:36, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    Response to EdJohnston

    Both revert were correction of mistaken edit by another editor. WP:3RR is part of WP:Edit warring which clearly states - "An edit war occurs when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions". Since there is no content dispute, there is no WP:WAR and thus no 1RR.

    In hundreds of words by Nishidani he never argued the content belongs in the article. Not once! He know it shouldn't and this whole AE request is an attempt to eliminate an editor with different opinions. Ashtul (talk) 13:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    Claims for my POVPUSH or WAR

    I do have a strong POV but I don't push it. Some of my statement might need moderate work but I believe I contribute more on that field then do damage. Much work is needed on many pages.

    An example for a change I've done recently is this. Two following sentences from the same source but the date is attributed only to the second part. As of September 2010, only a small minority among them is violent. - ridicules. I haven't followed who put it this way to begin with but it is an obvious POVPUSH which I have corrected.

    On Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, 2015, I have tried to bring some NPOV to the table but Nishidani wouldn't hear it. If you compare the lead to that of Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, 2014 you can see the lead grew from decent NPOV to a political manifesto with multiple sources criticizing Israel. Two pro-Israeli sources introduced to lead for WP:DUE were removed by Nishidani b/c "(3) removed false and unnecessary lead tags". I have asked him about items on the list that doesn't fit the category at Talk:Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, 2015#Confiscation notice but over a week later he didn't even bother answering. A great source by Shin Bet I introduced with talk page entry was move to the very end of the monthly lead stating "This is a useful source and I will use it on a monthly basis. However unlike every other source, it has no details" but a simple look shows the first part is by no-name group that provides even less details then my source, not to mention, detainees aren't covered by the definition in the lead.

    Blaming me for POV discrepancy when Nishidani is in the picture is nonsense. I didn't go to war over those b/c he took control over those pages and won't hear anything from new editors. On Skunk (weapon) he would resist any change until Cptnono just chopped of one third of the article. His rollback on CS is exactly the same behavior. He didn't even go through all the changes to check whether they should stay in or not. Returning the part on which we all spending our precious time here can be considered unintentional WP:VANDALISM but in hundreds of word and 2 days Nishidani didn't even stated once that he disagree with my action of removing it and as I stated before, I can't see how 1RR rule can be applied when there is no WP:Content dispute. Ashtul (talk) 23:07, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

    @Huldra: Let look at an RfC on a content conflict lasting over a month now between me and yourself, Nishidani and Nomoskedasticity on Carmel, Har Hebron. The 4 replies as for now support my position and here are parts of them -
    1. Those editors who argue in favor of it because it shows a contrast between Carmel and the ruins are actually arguing that we should push some POV with this image.
    2. is rampant POV-pushing and totally unacceptable
    3. the tangential POV laden picture does not belong in this article as outlined above
    4. that does not belong in an encyclopedia
    As per PMW, there are 7 results about them. This one list major media outlets which use their translations. Even the one you pointed at concluse if it used by 3rd RS it is OK, which I provided. This isn't even an opinion piece but a translation. If there is any doubts about that, please prove it. The fact they choose to translate pro-Israeli material doesn't make them unreliable. To top this all, I actually contacted them after I couldn't find the original and I added the link they send me as well. Then I invited you to question this on WP:RSN.
    So let's sum this up, while 4 editors used some strong language on your editing on Carmel, I facilitated a conversation, provided a source, a 3rd party unarguably RS and the original in arabic then invited you to use WP:RSN. You really got some Chutzpah. Ashtul (talk) 16:53, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
    @EdJohnston:,@Cailil: and @Callanecc:, please note my comment above. Ashtul (talk) 17:04, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
    A lot more to consider
    4 days after...

    No editor made a claim that a content dispute exist. Without it, there is no WP:WAR thus 1RR doesn't apply. Ashtul (talk) 22:27, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

    @EvergreenFir: I'm on my iPad so copy-pastie is torturous but I invite you to check 1RR,3RR and WAR ( they are all on the same page). It is all about content dispute. I didn't make the rules. And it is pathetic for The Pack trying to eliminate me b/c of a massive, partially unjustified rollback of a member. Ashtul (talk) 22:40, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
    @EvergreenFir: this is very convenient. You forgot the sentence that leads to it. Editors who engage in edit warring are liable to be blocked from editing to prevent further disruption. While any edit warring may lead to sanctions, Ashtul (talk) 22:52, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
    @EvergreenFir: That isn't what wp:3RR says. You wrote earlier I didn't discuss other changes but I did here. So I can't be blamed for not trying to sort it out. So much was written about the difference between WBS and CS including a sketch I made and uploaded. I was extremely forth coming!!! The 'revert' in question wasn't discussed as one doesn't have to be rocket scientist to figure it doesn't belong and Nishidani was at faults for putting it back. He doesn't argue differently. Ashtul (talk) 23:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
    I have requested HJ Mitchell who placed the previous topic ban and block to comment on this case. Please wait for his feedback. Thanks, Ashtul (talk) 18:58, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
    A final word

    I was confused all along as for why Nomoskedasticity went for a 'revert' which was not part of any content conflict as I have made total of over 20 edit in two series and how come I mixed up the time. It finally came to me -

    I worked on the article in two sessions. The first until 12:00 where I have made numerous changes to the content Nishidani added and a second session from 14:01 none of which was sections Nishidani wrote. In between I edited several other articles (TaxiBot, ‎Palestinian stone-throwing, Bil'in, Misplaced Pages:Third opinion). There are more then 24 hours between the edits I have made on Nishidani's edits and the revert in question is material that Nishidani doesn't even claim is content dispute, basically admitting him putting in back in place was a mistake. I truly believe I have done everything to keep the rules. Nomoskedasticity have filed the 3RR request within 1 hour of this uncontested 2nd revert and posted on my request to HJ Mitchell in a short time as well. Obviously he is trying to eliminate me as an editor. This isn't just WP:Hound, I think for this a new policy need to be call WP:hunt. Ashtul (talk) 09:53, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

    OMG, WP:HUNT actually exist. "A witchhunt is an action taken by a Misplaced Pages editor to find fault or violations in another editor when it is not already obvious that such has occurred". I think this is more than enough to dismiss this as Nomoskedasticity is obviously after me, sorted through dozens of edits in which he wasn't involved and immediately filed a request as if he just won the lottery. Ashtul (talk) 10:01, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
    @EdJohnston:,@Cailil: and @Callanecc:, HJ Mitchell have decided to sit this one out so I guess it is time for your decision. I have hidden much of the conversation and left the main points which are -
    1. I have waited 24 hours between my edits on Nishidani's work.
    2. I'm NOT POVPUSHer.
    3. Nomoskedasticity timing is clearly WP:HUNT and the 'revert' in question isn't 'already obvious that such has occurred' but required digging and hairsplitting. (This is how an obvious one looks like).
    I would like to ask you to refer to these points in your final decision. Thanks, Ashtul (talk) 14:29, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
    Answers to claims about my POV practices
    @Nomoskedasticity:, we all introduce some more material that supports our points but at least I use language that is NPOV. You have also failed to mention there was a discussion on the talk page on the matter with another editor thinking it was in the sources. Nobody claimed the Palestinians enjoy being under Israeli ruling but that doesn't change the fact they work together with Israelis and have great working relationships. I actually worked there a few years back and know if for a fact. The source support it and if you think it is all hell, bring a source that supports that. On the same page, Nishidani's contribution included the word 'Occupied' 3 times and his section about pollution sounds as if only Palestinian villages suffers from it. Near you guys I am Mother Teresa (as Carmel article shows).
    For example, I saw a new report that fits 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict. As I was looking to add it I notice the number of dead reporter was wrong at 13 instead of 17, so I fixed it and provided a source as well as added the original material which I wanted to add. This is bad for my POV but it is the truth. (I guess you might say I'm a blood thirsty murderer who wanted credit for extra 4 reporters).
    If anything there is a lot of cleaning required. This edit for example fixed a case where 'As of September 2010' was attributed only to 'only a small minority among them is violent' but not to 'Many settlers desperately want to be regarded as part of the Israeli mainstream' even thou they are from the same source. Whoever wrote this has an advanced degree in POVPUSH engineering. Ashtul (talk) 17:05, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
    You have guts. I will give you that. You write about POVPUSH and immediately delete Druker recanting b/c 'this is an opinion article'. It is his opinion about what he said earlier. Incredible!!! Ashtul (talk) 17:10, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
    @Nishidani: LOL. You lecture me. Those are two attempts of bringing wiki to NPOV. "and deserve to be" is in the source and attribution of the fact most settlers are law-abiding citizens is ridicules but instead of getting into a fight over attributing or not, I added a few names. I guess you think most settlers are rapists. I even added before While settlements are illegal according to international law... so it is clear we aren't talking about the conflict but about regular law. In my book this is exemplary NPOV!
    My favorite fixing of your POVPUSH is this. You change Israel Maintains into Israel sought to justify. 'Maintains' is NPOV. 'Sought to justify' is POVPUSH as would be 'praises itself' (to the other direction). I wrote in length before about Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, 2015 and the political manifesto you made the lead into. Ashtul (talk) 20:08, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
    @Nishidani: I'm afraid we're pass the point of acting as if any WP:AGF exist between us. First you need to admit this is WP:HUNT over a revert of yours, part of which (the part this request is about) was a mistake, then apologize for various beautiful comments such as While I am convinced Ashtul has notable problems, blaming me of 'totally garbled English' over a contribution you have made (on this request) or writing about me 'General incompetence'. The list can go on... You have treated me without a shred of respect for a very long time. Talking about 'approach to fellow editors' is pathetic.
    As per your question about the B'tselem stats, I haven't change the numbers so why are you asking me about it?
    About Barkan, I didn't oppose attribution but the tag which is false. And how does the 'labour unions report' contradicts them working peacefully together? Are we living a world of black and white? Do you have any RS to claim differently? This is absurd!
    And now that I answered your questions would you do me the honor and answer the YES/NO question that is hanging over this request - Was your revert partially mistaken? Should you have left the part about Beitar Illit out? Ashtul (talk) 22:03, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
    500 words

    Nishidani's statement in 500 words summery doesn't include one word about the revert in question. Why? B/C there is no case.

    Nomoskedasticity wrote about Barkan but prior to introducing 'Demotix' I searched for it and it has currently 186 results thus seems as RS. Just to be safe, I later added an ha'aretz source. Both Haaretz and Ynet speak about good working relationships "They work shoulder to shoulder with Israelis. If you don't like this one word, why remove the whole paragraph? It seems as if Palestinians daily suffering is NPOV and well being is POVPUSHING. Why?

    • On his first edit to Community settlement (Israel) Nishidani's edit summary reads - This is all undocumented. So let's source it.. But when I did work on it...
    • After thousand of word of back and forth I worked on the article in two sessions. The first until 12:00 where I have made numerous changes to the content Nishidani added and a second session from 14:01 none of which was sections Nishidani wrote. In between I edited several other articles. I have waited 24 hours between my edits on Nishidani's work. It came after a lengthy conversation here.
    • Nishidani gave it so little thought before rolling back over a dozen edits (with no proper explanation as required), he left one transfer of content and reverted the rest of changes including reintroducing duplicate section (History vs. History and today), outdated/false information and a new source introduced.
    • In over a week, Nishidani didn't claim once there is a dispute content which is basically admitting rolling back the content into the article was a mistake. To then go after me for it is not only childish but dishonest.
    • This a typical WP:Witchhunt (A witchhunt is an action taken by a Misplaced Pages editor to find fault or violations in another editor when it is not already obvious that such has occurred). There was no WP:WAR, not even WP:DISPUTE and the my edits had to be studied to find the one closest to a revert (even the one found is only partial revert). Just trying to eliminate an editor with different POV.

    So in one (long) sentence - Nishidani is fully aware part of his revert was wrong on an article that needed a lot of work but he wants me gone so bad he will WP:HUNT me with a policy which came to prevent WP:WAR when not even WP:Content dispute exist but only a faulty WP:ROLLBACK. Ashtul (talk) 08:44, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

    Response to Nishidani

    • Nishidani Blaming anyone of POVPUSHing is a Chutzpah. I will reiterate my favorite one - He edited this which I brought back to NPOV here. He changed Israel Maintains into Israel sought to justify. 'Maintains' is NPOV. 'Sought to justify' is POVPUSH as would be 'praises itself' (to the other direction).
    • He writes two editors of long experience have questioned... but when asked about it the response was The problem is that it is a "premium" article from Haaretz: unless you subscribe (which I don´t) you cannot see the whole article. Seriously???
    • Any why remove the whole statement? WHY? Haaretz is RS and it says "people are working side by side". Why would experienced editors remove this? TWICE???

    Thank you for allowing me to highlight the fact I'm not in the wrong here! Ashtul (talk) 13:32, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

    What make this whole conversation even more absurd is the statement in question - "At Barkan Industrial Park, thousands of Israelis and Palestinians work side by side in many of the factories in coexistence". The Ynet and Haaretz articles support this but obviously the wording is mine. Israelis and Palestinians interact many millions of times a day. Apparently for Nishidani, all is important is when those go wrong (~200 edits on Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, 2015) but when someone writes about the 99.999% of the times where everything is great and people work together and have normal working relationship Huldra, Nishidani and Nomoskedasticity just can't stand it. When articles such as Kidnapping and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir or 2014 kidnapping and murder of Israeli teenagers explode to every possible angel and aspect both sides contribute to, it is normal, but when someone write - Let's not forget this is not the whole picture, not even a big part of it, it is POVPUSHing.Ashtul (talk) 14:44, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
    Not to mention on the same article, Barkan Industrial Park, pollution isn't about the environment or mother earth but a sophisticated Israeli biological weapon meant to cause cancer to Palestinians in villages around. That article is WP:UNDUE and none of those editors have edited it before I have. I think it is time for WP:ARBPIA3 where it should discussed what should go to what articles. As it stands, Barkan is just an example for the BLACKWASHING Nishidani and Co. practice on Misplaced Pages. Apparently, BDS movement found another battle field. Ashtul (talk) 16:01, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by EvergreenFir

    As I said over at the AN3 report in response to the user saying their timezone settings made them inadvertently revert before the 24 hours were up, the user appears to be waiting for the restriction window to end. They did so without discussing the edits in the meantime. It's gaming to just wait for the instant the 24 hours are up. To quote WP:3RR for the sake of the user, not the reviewing admins: Any appearance of gaming the system by reverting a fourth time just outside the 24-hour slot is likely to be treated as a 3RR violation. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 20:21, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

    @Ashtul: 1RR always applies, even if the revert was on a different topic, it's still a revert. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 22:27, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
    @Ashtul: The Pack? Anyway, WP:3RR is clear that it does not need to be about a content dispute. To quote: There is a bright line known as the three-revert rule (3RR). A revert means undoing the actions of other editors. The 3RR says an editor must not perform more than three reverts, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material, on a single page within a 24-hour period. Edit wars are over content disputes. 3RR is a bright line regardless of the natures of the edits. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 22:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
    @Ashtul: The 3RR is independent of edit warring. I myself found this out the hard way. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 22:55, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by IjonTichyIjonTichy

    It seems Ashtul has learned almost nothing from his blocks and topic ban, and is repeating the same behaviors that led to the blocks and ban. He is gaming the system and editing in a highly partisan way. He appears to have made an effort to familiarize himself to some modest extent with the letter of WP policies, but his understanding, and more importantly his acceptance, of the spirit of the policies are very poor. He still does not understand or accept the culture of WP. He still does not have a clue. Ashtul's disruptive editing significantly reduces the work output of productive editors.

    Thanks and regards, IjonTichy (talk) 15:03, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

    I do not believe an interaction ban is a good option. To Ashtul's credit, it seems he has made a few edits that are neutral. But regretfully most of his contributions are not neutral. Ashtul appears to (not always, but almost always) edit in a highly partisan fashion, and exhibits battleground behavior. He seems to behave as if Misplaced Pages is an ideological war zone, and as Nishidani has shown (in two specific examples out of many) Ashtul has twisted, slanted and warped citations from reliable sources in order to serve Ashtul's own ideological bias. We all have personal biases but most of us are able to set-aside our biases most of the time and edit neutrally based strictly on what reliable sources say. In contrast, Asthul does not yet appear capable of setting aside his biases and thus he is not yet able to edit neutrally - his own ideology is far too powerful to allow him to accept the evidence provided by, and the views expressed in, reliable sources which strongly disagree with Ashtul's personal point of view. IjonTichy (talk) 11:58, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by Nishidani

    Ashtul, while depicting me as some hounding monster, part of a hunting pack of POV pushers (the sprawling defamatory screed above after my attempts to keep this polite violates WP:AGF), insists I renege on my undertaking not to comment here. All I can see is any comment I might make being an occasion for a massive expansion of erratic counter-charges. Of the huge wall of text and embedded charges above I'll give but one example of how unreliable his reportage is.

    Nishidani made a quick WP:ROLLBACK revert(kept one change and added some content)

    What did I do in that innocuous edit?

    • (1)I retained an important item Ashtul had added.
    • (2) Resupplied a source for a passage that read:

    also in the Galilee as part of the aim of establishing a 'demographic balance' between Jews and Arabs, and thwarting the development of a Palestinian state.

    This had been removed by Ashtul with the edit summary: 'Removed WP:OR statement in the lead which is WP:EXCEPTIONAL)' These are both spurious. I introduced 4 academic sources, three of which say this in various ways:

    (a)Weizman pp.81-82,pp.120-124, immediately before his specific section on 'community settlements' writes of a double planning policy to incentivate massive settlement in order to normalize the occupation and make it permanent, while ‘placing every conceivable obstacle.. in front of Palestinians attempting to develop their lands’.
    (b)Farsakh p.50 wrote:‘The growth of settlements . .paved the way for carving up the West Bank and disrupting the territorial continuity necessary for the eventual establishment of a Palestinian state’.
    (c)Efrat p.97 wrote:‘Apart from limiting the possibilities for urban and economic development through the seizure of land, the main impact on the Palestinians of the settlements in this strip is the disruption of the territorial contiguity of the Palestinian communities situated along the strip'.

    That West Bank settlements, most of which are community settlements were designed to hinder a Palestinian state is known even to Blind Freddy and his dog. Ashtul won't accept that.

    • (3)I had first made the edit: ‘by 1989, 115 had been added'. Ashtul erased this on the pretext that:'Source say clearly the figure includes kibbutzim and moshavim which are DIFFERENT.'

    That was a false edit summary (Kibbutzim and moshavim were not mentioned in that source). But I made an accommodation to his point, and reintroduced the section with more specific data and sourcing by writing:

    ‘by 1987 they (comminity settlements) numbered 95,(Kellerman) and two years later most of the 115 settlements established were of this kind'(Farsakh).

    • (4) I had written:-

    The design of these principles arose out of a perceived necessity of impeding Palestinian Israelis from residing in such settlements

    This was based on the source wording:

    'The community settlement’ was conceived in this way to avoid the possibility that Palestinian citizens of Israel might make their homes in these settlements.' ( Eyal Weizman, Hollow Land: Israel's Architecture of Occupation. Verso Books, 2012 p.126)

    Ashtul had rewritten this in the following unrecognizable terms:

    and monitoring may have a particular shared ideology, religious perspective, or desired lifestyle which they wish to perpetuate by accepting only like-minded individuals.<ref name="Weizman" />

    (a) This sentence is totally garbled English. 'Monitoring', cannot be a (human) subject with qualities like a shared ideology: it is a process exercised over people, etc.(b) it radically alters the source language that clearly states the community settlements exclude candidates for residency on ethnic grounds by denying Palestinian citizens of Israel their legal right to live in them, by a euphemism that makes the object of exclusion (Palestinians) into a subject for inclusion 'like-minded individuals'. Whereas the source, and my edit, state Palestinians are excluded, Ashtul twists this into a principle of inclusion, making an ethnic discrimination (against Palestinians) into an ethnic affirmation (of Jewishness). That's typical of his editing all over these articles. He makes Palestinian realities disappear in the face of sources that describe them. His edit summaries are deceptive, his reference to relevant policies incomprehensible, and his respect for the wording of highly reliable sources indifferent.Nishidani (talk) 16:49, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

    Ashtul. I'm not going to be dragged into an argument by you. If any admin thinks my editing is problematical, they are welcome to ask me to explain. I can't see you managing to grasp the policy and practice issues raised in explanation I have provided at numerous talk pages, including admin talk pages. So it is pointless for me to continue, other than to note you were asked by an admin not to follow me around as a condition for returning to edit, accepted not to do so, and now have immediately followed up a comment I made on an extremely obscure page (Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Death of Binyamin Meisner) by giving your opinion. Nishidani (talk) 18:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
    Cptnono. I appreciate your suggestions. I think any editor who's been around the I/P area will have a list of many editors who have found them 'frustrating', not to speak of the hundreds of IP or brief stagers who enter dramatically, cause fuss, and are quickly sent off. I've never had any problems, as you can see in my record, dealing with editors who have a thorough knowledge of the rules, respect WP:RS, look to WP:NPOV and who would thoroughly disagree with me in private. I have exercised restraint from December, I think, by asking an admin (EJ) or two (HJMitchell) to have a word with Ashtul over Skunk (weapon) and other articles, and I've called on your good offices to help out twice (here and here]) at Carmel, Har Hebron. Despite my frustrations, I preferred administrative persuasion rather than recourse to sanctions for infractions (that were multiple), Ashtul is one of only two people I've reported in 9 years, and he's no where as hostile as many I've ignored. His problem is, (a) an insouciance to mastering even the elementary principles of policy and (b) a capacity to cause a major needless inflation of work for fellow-editors because of that. That is what disturbs me. I made no opposition when he asked to come back soon after a suspension; I made no report when I saw further formal infractions. I made one slip, and apologized, in editing with him.
    Indeed, yesterday, when I saw Ed's suggestion, I opened this page to request a halving of the suggested sanction. When I did so, I saw his screed. On my page he was being amicable, on this page he wrote out an incomprehensible denunciation of my behavior, and saw a conspiracy afoot among other editors.
    I'm still amenable to a reduction of the suggested period. I don't think an interaction ban workable, since it would mean neither he nor I could edit many I/P pages, and it would imply I am half the problem. The problem is simple: this time, he needs a serious rest from the topic, so that, editing other pages, he can learn how to edit, how not to misrepresent sources or policy. 3 months is lenient in this area, but fair. I've sat out that (imposed or self-imposed) on a few occasions, and if Ashtul is committed to working here, it's a strong enough warning to ensure that this area requires scruple in rule observance, care with precisely sourced information, and balance in perspective. Above all he has to learn that we are dealing with two realities, not one.Nishidani (talk) 12:11, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    Ashtul. Your additions to me are as incomprehensible as most of your edits or rewrites. I could have made a very long statement taking each of your edits to pieces. I've explained one such example. To avoid WP:TLDR, I'll give another, typical of your 'cleansing' of the text.
    10:00, 22 February 2015 Edit summary Ofra is mentioned above. Likud apply to WBS not CS.)
    What this removed;

    The first community settlement, Ofra, being established only in 1975, and four of the first five were unauthorized.(ref=Kellerman) The reevaluation and recognition of such settlements as cooperative associations was based on the ascendancy to government of the Likud party, which seconded the rapid growth of closed exurbs in which religious nationalists played a dominant role.(ref=Gorenberg)(ref=Kellerman)

    The edit summary is absurd, since as my statistics showed, most settlements were CS, and Ofra is alluded to earlier, not discussed. You eventually 'rewrite this' as

    From 1977, the Likud led government supported expansion in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and in a few years, community settlements were the most common localities in those regions

    I.e. you (a) removed the documentary basis for the text's assertions or facts (b) cancelled reference the date of Ofra's foundation, where you have a WP:COI since your sisters live there (c) erased the fact that 4 of the first 5 such settlements were unauthorized, (d) removed the reference to such closed exurbs as dominated by religious nationalists and (e) in a totally ineptly phrased reworking wrote: 'community settlements were the most common localities in those regions,' confused a settlement with a locality, and worst of all, explicitly state that Israel's community settlements (115) were more common on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip than the several hundred Palestinian villages, which, in this formulation, are, again 'disappeared'.
    All of your attempts to rewrite articles show this insensitivity and incompetence, and that is why I wait till your collective edits are done, and revert the damage. To take each edit seriously would mean a huge workload. You keep pestering me to explain an edit, and yet when I show edit after edit, what is wrong, you don't reply but push on.Nishidani (talk) 14:08, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    Ashtul. This has nothing to do with a content dispute, or personal animus to get rid of someone, despite your efforts to make it into one. It is to do with the manipulation, inadveretent perhaps, but consistent, of content and sources to achieve a POV, which is what you did in both the examples I provided.Nishidani (talk) 15:17, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    Igorp (a) if you can't see Weizman stating the Galilee on p.126 then I suggested you reconsult the page or an optometrist. Other than this I can't help you, unless by indicating it is the 56th word in para.1 (b) This is a lead (WP:LEDE) with summary style, and (c) you apparently haven't read the thread above, where the sources amply documenting (as the body of the text illustrates) the reasons behind community settlements, and settlements generally, are provided.
    Generally, I am impressed by the amount of niggling examination of details flourished in arbitration as opposed to the disattentive negligance shown in the use of sources during the process of article drafting and talk page discussion. If people learnt to use the scrutiny they display here in the work they contribute, there would be no need for arbitration. I've said enough. This is not about me.Nishidani (talk) 17:12, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    Oh Keerist, Igorp! If you had actually followed my editing, and looked at my last edit to the article in question, you would have known that I had based my actual edits from Weizman, also regarding the Galilee on, Eyal Weizman, Hollow Land: Israel's Architecture of Occupation, Verso Books, 2012 pp.125-130, i.e. meaning also p.126. If you look above, you will se3e I cite Weizman twice, the second time on p.126 with a bloody link. Stop this ridiculous barrel-scraping pettifogging.Nishidani (talk) 20:47, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    Igorp. Don't keep asking questions that I have already replied to. Nishidani (talk) 11:11, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
    Igorp. Please reread my comments. I never put anything into this encyclopedia without carefully consulting the source, often the sources, at my elbow. I repeat: the answer to your crazy speculations is already provided above. If you can't see it, drop an email to blind Freddy's dog. It stands out like dog's balls.Nishidani (talk) 22:20, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
    Nishidani, rather than pass to your boorish "style of communication", I only repeat here my specific question about Galilee what you have not answered below:
    • "I do not see there any expression similar to your and "thwarting the development of a Palestinian state" addition (at least, on p. 126, it seems to me that at 125-130 - too). Please point to a specific place if I'm wrong.
    • Otherwise, Ashtul was right making his 10:47, 23 February 2015: edit after his 1st such one (09:44, 22 February 2015 ) . --Igorp_lj (talk) 22:34, 26 February 2015 (UTC)"
    --Igorp_lj (talk) 22:51, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
    Ashtul. I've been abroad for some days. On returning the first and only edits of yours I looked because they were on a bookmarked page (Israeli settler violence) are all disputable, beginning with justificatory editorializing. This is an egregious example of POV pushing for example
    where you consolidate the received text,

    According to B'Tselem 49 Palestinians were killed by Israeli civilians between 2000 and 2010 is settler-related. (Statistics source =B'Tselem)

    To obtain the run on line

    The majority of them (sic) is (sic) settler-related as a significant portion of the dead were killed while attempting to infiltrate settlements or attacking Israelis. (Palestinians killed by Israeli civilians in the Occupied Territories, 29.9.2000 - 31.7.2010 source=B'Tselem}

    Apart from the ineptness endorsement of the use of significant portion as a gloss on 'majority,' and the incoherent grammar, the first link is not specific, and the second for me does not load the names. Did you check the sources for this statement? The statistics 2000-2008, in any case, give 45, not 49 (4 more deaths presumably in two years), and do not bear out the gloss that has been added, in so far as it is grammatically comprehensible.
    Can you show us where in those links that change of text, attributed to B’tselem is warranted? Thank you.Nishidani (talk) 19:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
    'I guess you (think) think most settlers are rapists'. Again, if you have this approach to fellow editors, you are frankly in the wrong area of the internet. Nishidani (talk) 20:16, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
    'I guess you think most settlers are rapists'. Again, if you have this approach to fellow editors, you are frankly in the wrong area of the internet. Nishidani (talk) 20:16, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
    Your reply illustrates the problem. I asked you two questions: you reply 'LOL' and then ignore policy by (a) defending the presentation of a POV as an objective fact, and (b) ignoring the second request.
    The second request highlights the strong probability that you rewrite texts, many of which are defective, without clicking on the putative sources to ascertain whether what you rewrite is source- based or not. The first link fails verification, since it is a generic page with no mention of the data, as does the second, which offers a prospect of a list, but for me, that list does not appear. As far as I can ascertain (I went through the statistics from 2000-2008) 23 of the 45 settlers killings were of unarmed Palestinians. Whoever wrote that text did a piece of WP:OR and attributed it to B'tselem, which then your rewrite endorsed. If that represents the same proportions in the unaccessed data for 2000-2010, then you readjustment is deceptive in pleading a cause, rather than simply presenting the reader with facts. Thirdly, it is apparent from another declaration here that you do not understand NPOV. Worse, editors who encounter just one edit like that, are, if they are careful in their work here, forced to waste 45 minutes searching for the appropriate data not yet available from the page, analyzing it, and then figuring out whether the assumption made is correct or not. 45 minutes of close labour told me it wasn't. In that time you can make a dozen edits. I for one, can't keep up.
    I tried to show how you were presenting on wikipedia a single statement by an interested party, the head of the settler council, saying Palestinians and Israelis work in peaceful coexistence, as if it were a statement of the reality, rather than, an opinion. Extensive negotiations followed, which failed to drive home this elementary Misplaced Pages policy. That is an opinion, the (legitimate) POV of settlers. Why couldn’t you see this when it contradicts what Israeli labour unions report, which I have duly cited?
    As far as I can detect, the reason is in what you now state in remarking Nobody claimed the Palestinians enjoy being under Israeli ruling but that doesn't change the fact they work together with Israelis and have great working relationships. I actually worked there a few years back and know if (sic) for a fact.
    The massive sprawl of walls of texts with 3 months of grievance and countercharges, quickly hatted, has made this discussion impossible to read. Nishidani (talk) 21:38, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

    ________________________________________ Refactor per Stifle's request. I don't know why this is such a hard call.

    • Ashtul reverted Nomoskedasticity at 18:25, 17 February 2015‎.
    • He was in turn reverted by User:Huldra
    • Ashtul then reverted her at 18:32, 18 February 2015‎
    • He waited exactly 24 hours and 7 minutes in order to game the 1R rule. Perhaps he had followed Mitchell's advice to the letter, but not to the spirit. Waiting 7 minutes past the expiry line, when two editors of long experience have questioned your original judgement, and failing to engage them meanwhile in depth on the talk page, suggests he was gaming even that rule. He repeated the practice in the example which forms the basis of this complaint.
    • Even with that last revert, as User:Zero0000 pointed out, he had distorted the source in favour of his POV. One could go on for several hours documenting this, but I've hit the refactor limit, I think. In retrospect, his highly confused and confusing divagations above, ever dragging in more complaints, perhaps his return to editing within just 3 weeks of an indefinite topic ban was premature. The 30 odd edits elsewhere show no commitment to the project in general. Nishidani (talk) 21:03, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
    If any of the mud splashed my way in these repeated assertions of poor editing, bad faith and hounding on my part is sticking and raises administrative suspicions there may be more to this than meets the careful eye, I welcome any request to clarify, here or by email. I will not reply to Ashtul's assertions because I find they skew the evidence to the point of being unrecognizable, and replies only provoke more of the same. Thank you.Nishidani (talk) 11:33, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by (Cptnono)

    Wouldn't an interaction ban be sufficient instead of a lengthy topic ban? It looks to me like Astul is trying but having a hard time working with Nish. Since no one has offered to mentor the user, maybe give the two an extended break from each other. No reverts. Maybe no talking even.

    I also still believe that Nish should have been more open to Ashtul's suggestions about settlements but it is hard to collaborate when everyone is off on the wrong foot. Ashtul could bring something good to the project and separating the two like school children (or how about prize fighters) might be all that is needed. Cptnono (talk) 23:07, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

    @EdJohnston: Astul doesn't appear to be a troll inserting the worst of POV. He actually appears to know what he is editing to the point that he brought up points that were surprising to those well versed in the topic area. The problem is that he has gotten worked up about another editor. I am sure I can name a dozen editors who have been frustrated (legitimately or not) at Nish before. Separate those two by not allowing them to revert each other and the problem could be solved.
    Would you consider a topic ban? The severity of restrictions has increased dramatically in the last few years and he would not have faced such a lengthy ban for cussing out another editor in the past. I understand that it might be a good thing since enough is enough but a more novel approach could work better. Something like a 6 month ban strikes me as something for the worst of offenders. He hasn't even had that opportunity to screw up that bad yet while he is still making steps (as small as they might be). Is banning him good for the project or is it an easy fix to cutting out drama?Cptnono (talk) 05:23, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    Cptnono, Can you please explain me where was I wrong. I start to feel like I have lost my mind and if I do not understand, indeed I should not be allowed to edit at all and be blocked indefinitely.
    How can there be 1RR violation with not content dispute and WP:WAR? Nishidani doesn't argue the content belongs there. Ashtul (talk) 13:23, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    You can't revert twice in a day. It doesn't matter that Nish didn't see talk (it looks like an edit summary was used at least). I'm not saying that was the best way to go about it but the rule was put in place to reduce the once prevalent edit wars. This may not have been an edit war but things would have been calmer if the talk page was used instead of reverting. Just don't revert twice in a day in this topic area even if it feels like no harm is being done.Cptnono (talk) 16:16, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

    This is at best a 'partial revert'. Nishidani and I have conversed in length here (I believe ~20k out of ~30k in the thread). Then I waited for 24 hours which were miscalculated b/c of local time (I have fixed that). If there was a 1RR on anything which constituted a content dispute I would say - 'sorry, I f***ed up. Ban me indefinitely' but that isn't the case. This is not Carmel case where I made a mistake. It was a content dispute and I broke 1RR. Ashtul (talk) 18:07, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

    It doesn't matter what it was a best. You fucked up. Man up to it and give the community an assurance that you will respect the process of using the talk page in the future. I totally agree with you that your revert was within reason. However, the process is in place to assure that things are done at a slower and more collaborative pace. Can you show us that you give a shit (I know you do) and lay out how you could have done it better? Or not. Take the 6 months and come back a better editor.Cptnono (talk) 04:02, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by Huldra

    You need to have a steep learning-curve if you are to survive editing in the Israel/Palestine area, and Ashtul is behind the curve, so to speak. Besides the 1RR violation, he inserts material from clear activist sources, without stating that it is from an activist source. Over on Barkan Industrial Park he insert material from Palestinian Media Watch. Ashtul claims here that the consensus from WP:RSN is that "There are several conversations regarding PMW with the majority concluding it is WP:RS thus I state 'consensus seems to be'." A quick search of the archives gives me this: "PMW is an Israeli organization dedicated to "exposing" the evil of the Palestinians by careful selection of material from Palestinian media. In other words, it is a political organization not a news organisation," and this. That he wants to pass off material from clear activist sources without attribution, shows to me that he still lacks a basic understanding of editing in the area. Huldra (talk) 23:38, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by Igorp lj

    Nishidani, can you please explain what RS approve this text from the head, quoted by you?

    also in the Galilee as part of the aim of establishing a 'demographic balance' between Jews and Arabs, and thwarting the development of a Palestinian state.

    I do not find something about Galilee in RS what you placed below your quote. --Igorp_lj (talk) 16:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

    First of all, I'd suggest not to jump to conclusions, as it has been not so long ago (:) As far as I can see nobody here insists that the disputed paragraph should be in the article. Then the 1-3RR violations' question itself is questionable too. Therefore, I'd ask someone neutral to check out other arguments against Ashtul.

    Now, to the question of "persecution". Not sure that these accusations are true. Any article may be in WatchList of any party, but ... it's no secret that cooperation with Nishidani isn't easy, especially when it concerns the fact that contrary to his personal POV, which for some reason he is considered neutral. I've already mentioned his didactic tone towards beginners and other things that might just discourage anyone to desire & to do something in Wiki.

    I think that a problem - isn't Ashtul, who still has the patience and desire to break through the current, not healthy situation. IMHO, it may be a perfect remedy to stop administration in those cases when parties expressed different points of view, but (!) to require from them not to add to an article any text, which wasn't previously agreed on an corresponding Talk page. I'd propose to check this decision for ~ some months' period and after it to see if / how it works.. --Igorp_lj (talk) 18:24, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

    • Nishidani: "I suggested you reconsult the page or an optometrist", "If people learnt to use"... (17:12, 26 February 2015)
    That's the pity, but this is exactly what I've wrote above about Nishidani's style of "cooperation".
    Somebody wants to use the formal reasons here. Ok, I simply remind: what you mentioned above is (a)Weizman pp.81-82,pp.120-124 (Nishidani, 16:49, 25 February 2015), not p.126
    "Galilee" was mentioned only once - in article's head. One may check the version before Ashtul's edit (09:44, 22 February 2015) : "Galilee" not appears in its body.
    "I've said enough. This is not about me" (@Nishidani) :( --Igorp_lj (talk) 20:28, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    A pity that I spent my time watching pro-Palestinian product of Weizman, but ... I do not see there any expression similar to your and "thwarting the development of a Palestinian state" addition (at least, on p. 126, it seems to me that at 125-130 - too). Please point to a specific place if I'm wrong.
    Otherwise, Ashtul was right making his 10:47, 23 February 2015: edit after his 1st such one (09:44, 22 February 2015 ) . --Igorp_lj (talk) 22:34, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
    * Nishidani (11:11, 27 February 2015) "Don't keep asking questions that I have already replied to."
    It only means that Ashtul's was right about your wp:OR. :) --Igorp_lj (talk) 17:34, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Ashtul

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • If this was a first offence it might be closed with no action. But Ashtul has been previously blocked as long as two weeks for violations related to ARBPIA. I propose a six-month topic ban from everything covered by WP:ARBPIA. EdJohnston (talk) 03:41, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

    Steverci

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Steverci

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Grandmaster (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:41, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Steverci (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I resubmit my report on Steverci, as the previous one was closed as no action due to the indefinite ban of Steverci as a sockmaster (see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Steverci/Archive). Since he has already been unblocked, I believe the reason for the dismissal of the previous AE report is no longer valid. In my opinion, in the view of all the disruption caused by this user in arbitration covered areas, BLP articles, and sockpuppetry (see the archived report), this user should not be allowed to edit the Armenia-related articles (covered by arbitration) as if nothing ever happened. Plus, I don't see why anyone would need 5 sock accounts (plus one that was prevented from creation by the system) to edit arbitration covered Armenia related articles, and I personally do not find particularly convincing Steverci's explanation as to why at least two of the sock accounts edited the same articles as the sockmaster account (he claims that that he forgot to log out from socks and log in into main account, see discussion at his talk). In my opinion, Steverci's unblock request should have been discussed at WP:AE, in view of the report that was submitted here just before the ban. I also think that if Steverci is to be granted permission to edit Misplaced Pages, at the very least he should be banned from AA and related topics. Grandmaster 20:41, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Steverci

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Steverci

    All I really have to add in addition to my previous statement is to remind that the user who was warring my edits, violating 3RR, and had a long history of AA2 edit warring against multiple users in many articles had only gotten a warning. I see no reason why I should be banned from AA2 besides Grandmaster's obvious battleground mentality against Armenian users. And for those who don't want to backtrack through previous discussions, I had never created a sock, I merely misunderstood the rules for alternate accounts, hence why two admins agreed to remove my block soon after it was placed. --Steverci (talk) 23:51, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

    User:HJ Mitchell Can you please explain the logic behind why you only gave Parishan a warning despite having a longer history of emotional invested edit warring with multiple users and violating the 3RR (which is supposed to guarantee punishment), or this user I reported only getting a warning despite making personal attacks, 3RR, and a clear emotional agenda on many pages evident by just his talk page, and yet you want to jump right into giving me an indefinite ban? I cannot see any less assumption that they will keep "kicking the can" than can be given to me. What happened to what EdJohnston said about Parishian's nationalist POV pushing? If you are putting to much thought into the sandbox, you should know that as I've said before, it was a rough draft where I put all my sources and text on one spot and planned to trim it down later. I've never actually put something like that on a real article. I'll be the first to admit I have an interest in a certain topic, but I've never added or removed anything without sources to support doing so, and quite frankly for how "invested" you claim I am I can't recall ever being hostile or attacking another user (the same can't be said for warned users). Is there even a guideline that talks about "emotionally invested" editing? If there was, almost all editors would be banned. --Steverci (talk) 15:13, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
    User:Kansas Bear What!? Your links are a perfect example of nitpicking and distortion. There wasn't a reference for that line on Armenian language and I was trying to make it less POV. Over 99% of things listed on List of military disasters are unsourced. There was no source for Tiridates I and ethnicity is usually unimportant; I was discussing it with another editor on talk pages and came to a consensus anyway. I didn't "not like" Hovannisian, I presented a lengthy summary of criticism of his work and false information inside it. Don't put words in my mouth. --Steverci (talk) 23:09, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

    User:HJ Mitchell Well that is quite curious. I'm not sure if you just read my links or not, but EtienneDolet provides literally dozens of instances where Parishan had been edit warring across many, many articles, all quite recently. If that is not compelling enough to garner any support for sanctions, when considering violating WP:3RR alone is supposed to be an instant block, I don't see how you could support sanctions for me. Also, I noticed your statement on Jaqeli's appeal about loosening things and going from there. Why not consider something similar here? In the first request about me someone mentioned setting a 1RR for Parishan and I. Perhaps we could go that route for me and see how things work? Indefinite sanctions are typically preceded by sanctions that go 24h>1w>1month>etc unless there are personal attacks for blatant vandalism (which I've never done) and seems overly aggressive, especially considering other users are only getting warnings. This could be helpful, it would essentially mean I get a severe sanction if I edit ware again, and if I don't then that would solve the problem. I would agree to not violate it. --Steverci (talk) 18:26, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by Kansas Bear

    • Steverci removes wording in the lead of the Armenian language article which changes the meaning of the sentence to the opposite of what the sentence originally stated. The information was referenced in the article. No explanation in the edit summary.
    • Steverci twice adds the battle of Avarayr to List of military disasters, no source, either time.
    • Steverci removes that which he does not like. No explanation in edit summary.
    • Steverci tries to have Richard Hovannisian disqualified as a reliable source because Hovannisian's book states something Steverci does not like. He is later warned about possible BLP violations by Stephen Schultz
    • Steverci edit wars in an unexplained removal of references and referenced information. Which is finally resolved on the talk page.
    • Steverci is no sooner unblocked than he jumps into an on-going edit war at Lavash. Then nearly 2 hours later joins the discussion on the Lavash talk page.

    Just from these incidents alone, I am not convinced that Steverci is capable of editing neutrally in the areas of Armenia, Azerbaijan and Turkey. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:21, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Steverci

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • From this request, Steverci's statement, and the previous request, I get the distinct impression that Steverci is too deeply invested to edit neutrally in this topic area (admins should read the sandbox linked to in the previous request, for example). I recommend an indefinite topic ban. I can't see anything else having any effect other than kicking the can down the road, and I think Steverci needs to focus his editing in a topic area about which he doesn't feel so strongly. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:49, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
      • @Steverci: The reason that AE request was closed as it was was that Parishan's two blocks for 3RR dated from 2007 (ie eight years ago; for context, that's two years before I registered my account) and there was no consensus among admins for any action. The diffs provided gave some cause for concern, but were not compelling enough to garner any support for sanctions. I haven't made any final decision here, anyway. I'd like to gauge the opinions of other admins before anything else. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:07, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
    • Not sure how uninvolved I am, since I closed the previous AE request as moot, and I also have Shusha on my watchlist, time to time reverting vandalism and POV edits, but the diffs, and, in particular, presented by Kansas Bear, look very much concerning to me. I would support topic ban on everything related to Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Turkey, brooadly construed.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:37, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

    Cwobeel

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Cwobeel

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    ChrisGualtieri (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:36, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Cwobeel (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:NEWBLPBAN
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 03:43, 23 January 2015 Original insertion of an inaccurate, out of context, and less than half a sentence passing mention sourced to an organization with long standing disputes with Emerson.
    2. 17:55, 23 January 2015 Adding: " One more source for good measure)" A tiny quip labeling him as an Islamophobe without any reason or evidence.
    3. 4:27, 2 March 2015 Reinserting into lead after protection lapsed.
    4. 16:31, 2 March 2015 Continuing after a month long protection to insert inappropriate material
    5. 4 March 2015 Inserting the material again despite no consensus
    6. Steven Emerson - Part 3 - A BLPN discussion is made and Cwobeel acknowledges WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE
    7. 7 March 2015 Restoring the problematic material again during a BLPN dispute.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. 12 December 2014 - Cwobeel was notified of the AC/DS for BLP.
    2. 24 January 2015 He was blocked for violating the sanctions after I submitted a Arbitration Enforcement request when the user was restoring unsourced BLPs - and sourced them only to IMDb and arguing with an admin over whether or not it was appropriate.
    3. 25 January 2015 A sanction was placed on "Awards and nominations" except for adding Reliable Sources - This sanction is not relevant here, but it was the end result of the previous AE about BLP.
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    This needs a bit of background. The source being used here is from organizations which Emerson has had legal battles with and has actually sued for defamation arising from said disputes. Cwobeel asserts that the sources are high-quality and reliable despite this. Biased sources exist, but accusations of bigotry are very serious and should not be sourced to less than a single sentence. Secondly, the only source which gives a "reason" is actually committing a very biased and judgmental attack on Emerson. Emerson has also highlighted that it is a partial quote being used. Within hours of the Oklahoma City Bombing, media, law enforcement and even the FBI raised concerns of Islamic terrorism. Emerson was not the origin, but merely one of numerous persons used by the media to further the Islamic Terrorism angle, he simply acknowledged the speculative and rampant rumor about six hours after the blast. Publications from the Wall Street Journal to the The New York Post ran stories with other experts (not Emerson) making clear the "middle east" terrorism links.

    After the removal on March 4, the BLPN petered around a bit. Essentially the "gaff" is important and everyone agrees it needs to be in the article - but the "Islamophobe source" accusation is shown to be flawed and have no consensus to be included and Cwobeel re-added it anyways. Unfortunately this is not an isolated example because Cwobeel has also repeatedly edit warred to re-insert completely false material shown here removing an ACLU reference (containing the document) and replacing it with the erroneous and false claim saying it does not exist. I do not understand why Cwobeel does these things or has this attitude, but can the article also be placed on 1RR restriction since the 1 month protection failed to stop this?

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Cwobeel

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Nomoskedasticity

    This AE filing is a gambit in a content dispute. It's fine for the OP to disagree with the proposed edit, but when several other editors dissent from the notion that it's a BLP violation it's very poor form to state that notion here as if it were an indisputable fact. The basis for the claim includes the idea that because Emerson sued a couple of scholars over the way he was characterised by them the scholars are therefore unusable as sources about him. That's a very strange idea, and again it does not enjoy consensus in discussions about this article. What that means is that "the 'Islamophobe source' accusation is shown to be flawed" is a matter of the OP's opinion. I really don't see how all of this adds up to a need for an immediate block, nor a block at all. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 14:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

    HJ Mitchell, there's a context here that's worth knowing; I've just addressed your point via a post on BLPN; perhaps it's redundant to repeat it here. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 17:58, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by MrX

    Isn't it standard practice to allow the accused to make a statement on their own behalf in Arbcom enforcement cases, especially when the case is opened in the middle of the night? I'm deeply concerned about the strained interpretation of WP:BLP being advanced here, on the basis of original research and without the consensus of the community. In my opinion, these types of blocks based on novel interpretation of policy has a potentially chilling effect on open editing of any BLPs and the potential for seriously affecting neutral POV by keeping any and all negative information out of articles is anyone objects. - MrX 17:05, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by Serialjoepsycho

    I could only struggle to say that this is a bad call, because simply it's not. It is a good call. Very straight forward. With that said however I'm not sure this case calls for a straight forward call. This diff really seems in good faith. While I did suggest Cwobeel seek a formal closure,it does seem his view of the consensus is correct. Perhaps he should have waited longer before instituting the change. In this case a direct warning and pointing out the problematic behavior may very well suffice. The thing is the article was just locked down for a month. I'm not sure this does anything to target the disruption to the article, just perhaps Cwobeel's. I'd hate to see DS to be used as a replacement for consensus making and reviewing related conversations of the subject of Steven Emerson I question if that may be what is happening. I'd like to ask you to consider over turning this block and I would like to also ask that you consider Chris' request above to institute 1RR in the article if you haven't already.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 20:17, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Cwobeel

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I've blocked Cwobeel for a fortnight to prevent the immediate disruption (which is the restoration of the material while it was being discussed at BLPN). Considering this is the second time in recent weeks that Cwobeel's conduct on BLPs as been in question at this board, I think we should consider much more rigorous sanctions, possibly even a long-term block. Note that this is Cwobeel's fifth block in less than a year, and BLP issues appear to be at the root of all of them. Cwobeel also has two logged warnings under NEWBLPBAN, and was banned by Sandstein in January from editing award lists. It seems that Cwobeel's compliance with BLP has been a long-term problem. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:39, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
      @Nomoskedasticity and MrX: et al, the block is not based on one interpretation of BLP versus another. I have no opinion on that. The issue is that once something is removed on a good-faith BLP objection it shouldn't be restored until the concerns are addressed or consensus determines them to be meritless. Edit-warring because you disagree with your opponent's interpretation of BLP is unacceptable, and doing so citing a discussion that is still open strikes me as disingenuous. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:53, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by User:Jaqeli

    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    Jaqeli (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Jaqeli 07:17, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator
    diff

    Statement by Jaqeli

    During this period of time I've contributed to some very good articles and created some quality ones. I can say I am really an experienced Wikipedian and I can assure you no past mistakes will take place anymore. My current TBAN though stops me to create many good Georgian articles because many of them have some kind of Armenian relations as well because of Georgian-Armenian relations are huge and deep and they count several millennia. I recognize my past mistakes of edit-warring and being a bit non-cooperative with Armenian Wikipedians which I no more will be like if you give me a chance again by lifting my current TBAN. I will engage with Armenian users and will cooperate in a calm manner in the interests of English Misplaced Pages. I believe having a Georgian Wikipedian like me also would greatly contribute as well. I by all means learned on my mistakes and I am ready to get back. I recognize all my past mistakes and now I am more aware how interacting with everyone is important. I will be cooperative and open for the common good of EnWiki. I have more than 20,000 edits, I am an experienced user registered back in 2011, I've made many contributions to English Misplaced Pages, I've made Good Articles, written many articles, expanded many etc. I have years of experience on English Misplaced Pages and I deserve a second chance and just because many Georgian articles can have some marginal Armenian connections I should be able to edit them as now my TBAN stops me in my contribution. There can be new information, pictures, charts, maps, sources etc. that can be added and because of my TBAN I cannot do so. I promise I will work with Armenian users and will be cooperative in every way possible. Right now because of my TBAN I cannot work on any major Georgian article because many may have marginal and minor Armenian connections for historical reasons as we are long-time neighbors. There's many I can do to contribute as I've done in the past. Admin Sandstein declined my appeal and I am bringing this appeal to other Admins who I hope will understand my request to cancel and lift this ban from me. I can do many good for the English Misplaced Pages as I've done in the past and me as a Georgian Wikipedian which aren't that many here can be of a great help in Georgia-related articles. I hope those other Admins who know me or remember me would give me one last chance and cancel this TBAN from me. Thank you. Jaqeli 07:17, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

    @Sandstein: I understand you are an experienced admin and you no more trust users like me especially when you see my past but please be assured that if this last chance is given I will definitely keep my word. If I do not keep my word I understand the fact that I will be banned forever and I will quit wikipedia. Please also see Georgian inscriptions list as I've told you in your TP I am working on those articles and created some in these days. You rightfully thought I disrupted the page but please be sure it is not the case. I've just made it a disambig page as there are many Georgian inscriptions to be added in the future which I will do certainly as I will work on them. @OccultZone: These 4 years or so I am mostly contributing to Georgia-related articles and because of my TBAN it is literally impossible for me to contribute into any major Georgia-related articles and that is why my activity was and is very low. @Richwales: I have a great respect for you as an admin and I fully understand that if this last chance is given to me I will no more screw with it and will keep my word. I will take any disputes to dispute resolution page and that will be the only way to handle such issues out. If I don't follow my word you personally can ban me from Misplaced Pages forever. @My very best wishes: I got this TBAN because of my aggressive and noncooperative attitude towards the origin section of Georgian scripts which I do recognize as a mistake which I made in the past. There is no other problems with script-related ones with me. I've made huge contributions and made GAs like script-related Georgian scripts article for example. There will be no problems from my side anymore as I fully understand the result that this can be my last chance so I will take any disputes to dispute resolution page for solving such issues that got my TBAN'd. So there is no reason to keep me out from script-related articles as such. Please also see the part concerning to Georgian inscriptions in the part of my reply to Admin Sandstein. @Kober: Thank you. I look forward working with you again and thanks for your support. Jaqeli 11:40, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

    @HJ Mitchell: I fully agree. Jaqeli 12:50, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

    @Richwales: The point of my appeal here is not the modification of my current TBAN but I want it to be lifted and canceled from me entirely. I don't want to have any restrictions editing Misplaced Pages. As I've said per your suggestion I'd take any disputes to dispute resolution page and I will no more edit war at all and if I won't keep my word for it I will be banned forever. I want to be entirely TBAN-free what will give me a chance to edit any article I will want to starting from Georgian language, scripts, inscriptions, archaeology, history, culture, religion etc. Jaqeli 22:02, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

    @Starship.paint: @My very best wishes: Thanks for your support. Jaqeli 22:19, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by Sandstein

    I recommend declining the appeal. I already lifted the ban once and had to reinstate it because of recurring problems. I am not convinced that Jaqeli can now competently edit in controversial topic areas. Please also refer to the discussion on my talk page about Jaqeli's prior appeal to me.  Sandstein  08:16, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

    After looking at the two AE requests that resulted in the ban, they do seem to have the issue of language and writing in common. So I guess if the ban is to be modified, it could be rephrased to cover "the past and present languages and alphabets used in Armenia or Azerbaijan". But since Jaqeli still hasn't told us which specific article the ban prevents them from editing, and given that just a look at their block log doesn't bode well for their future as an editor, I'm not optimistic that loosening the ban will benefit the project.  Sandstein  13:19, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by OccultZone

    I have got Sandstein's UTP on my watchlist, I was in touch with the appeal.

    Apart from the points that Sandstein has noted, I would say that the activity level of Jaqeli has gradually decreased since the reinstatement of topic ban and he has made about 291 edits since August 8, 2014. For showing that he can edit constructively and collaboratively in different areas, I believe that more activity is required. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 07:55, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

    The proposal of Richwales looks promising and Jaqeli has agreed to it. That might be an option. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 11:42, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by Kober

    I've been in dispute with User:Jaqeli over certain areas of Georgia-related topics, but, in my case, he has been cooperative and, in fact, much helpful. Given the quality work he has done for Misplaced Pages, I would support lifting a topic ban and giving him the last chance to continue his full-time activity. --Kober 15:31, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

    Statement by Richwales

    I've interacted with Jaqeli numerous times in the past. I'm not going to take a position, one way or the other, as to whether he deserves (or can handle) a relaxation or lifting of his current topic ban; however, I do think it's worth noting that his current ban effectively keeps him out of virtually all Georgia-related articles (since connections between Georgian and Armenian topics are pervasive). Since Jaqeli's primary (exclusive?) interest is in topics related to his home country of Georgia, it's not surprising to me at all that he has done very little editing here since his topic ban was imposed (for fear of being seen to have violated the ban if nothing else), so I don't think his low activity should be held against him. I am concerned about Jaqeli's past misbehaviour regarding edit warring, blocks, etc., and I do feel that if the community decides to give him one more chance, it should be made extremely clear to him that this will absolutely be his last chance — he must take any disputes promptly to accepted dispute resolution procedures and accept resolution outcomes gracefully, and he must accept that any future sanctions will almost certainly take the form of an indefinite / permanent site ban. — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 17:08, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

    I'm not quite sure how a topic ban on the past and present languages used in Armenia or Azerbaijan would affect things here. Alphabets, yes, but languages? AFAIK, no one seriously argues that the Georgian language is related to Armenian or Azeri — but forbidding Jaqeli to edit in any article that mentions the languages of Georgia's geographical neighbours seems a bit much. @Sandstein: are there some specific reasons you had in mind for drawing the language issue (as opposed to the alphabet/script issue) into your proposal for a revised topic ban?
    And @Jaqeli: I think it would be helpful for people here if you could list a few articles which you believe you could make constructive contributions to, but which you are unable or unwilling to touch for fear of being seen to have violated your current topic ban. Since we are discussing your current ban, BTW, it is my understanding that mentioning articles in this manner, in this specific forum, and possibly also including very brief and neutral explanations of why you believe working on a given article might be seen as a topic ban violation, would not in and of itself constitute a violation of your current ban. — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo)

    Statement by Kansas Bear

    Having edited in the Caucasus region, I have "interacted" with Jaqeli in a limited capacity. I believe he does do good work, however due to Georgia's location, the Caucasus is not an easy area to edit. I think, in the long run, Richwales idea would be best for Jaqeli. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:27, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Jaqeli

    After quickly looking at this, I think this topic ban could at least be changed and narrowed by limiting it to the subjects related to Caucasian alphabets. I think this is main POV of Jaqeli. Then his strange editing here discussed with Sandstein would be covered by the new restriction, but allowed him editing any Georgia-related subjects not related to the alphabets. In addition, banning someone from Georgian subjects on the basis of Armenia-Azerbaijan sanctions (both are different countries) might be a little questionable. My very best wishes (talk) 23:53, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

    • I think the suggestion by Sandstein it could be rephrased to cover "the past and present languages and alphabets used in Armenia or Azerbaijan" is reasonable. As about the future behavior by Jaqeli, I never interacted with this user before and therefore can not predict his behavior. The suggestion by Richwales also seem reasonable. I would suggest to give Jaqueli another chance. My very best wishes (talk) 17:33, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

    Result of the appeal by Jaqeli

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement Add topic