Talk:Prem Rawat - Misplaced Pages

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Current status: Former good article nominee

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Lima Interview and RSN, re: Nobel

Your link is the page that scrolls with new news, I've used http://sites.willax.tv/ceciliavalenzuela/entrevistas/prem-rawat-busquemos-la-paz-en-nuestro-interior/ instead, as it's a static link. RSN thread is here.

I understand that the RSN estimates the source as not qualified enough for this statement pretty cohesively, and I agree to drop the issue, unless better sources turn up.--Rainer P. (talk) 11:08, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

A "Puff Piece" that "Lionizes" Rawat. Again, can anyone find an example of a reputable, current interview or article that doesn't fit this characterisation please? That would be very useful.PatW (talk) 13:42, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank-you Rainer, if better sources do turn up, I would definitely be willing to look at them.

PatW, I think that's going to be very hard to find, because almost any journalist that does any digging is going to want to talk about the 70-80's because it's controversial, and that gets views/sells papers. I don't think PR is ready to re-hash all that just yet. but *shrug* I guess we'll wait and see. -- Maelefique 14:39, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I wrote a whole load of thoughts that this conversation prompted - but I've deleted it. Sufficit to say I think Rawat's inability to answer questions that are anything less then obsequious flattery says a lot more than that he simply doesn't want to 're-hash' past controversies. PatW (talk) 17:59, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Possibly, but right now, I'm still dealing with the God issue. Almost ready to go. Stay focused...on the edits/sources.

-- Maelefique 18:13, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

How's the "God Issue" coming along? I'd like to see some fresh input on this article. PatW (talk) 22:46, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

TRANSLATION REQUESTED above

Cecilia Valenzuela expresses her opinion on the fight Flores-Villarán, with scarce credibility.

Journalist Cecilia Valenzuela left a sad memory in Peruvian television, as she gave an epithet that we considered inopportune, after the opinions of “The Sniper” on the candidacy of Susan Villarán to the mayor's office of Lima.

In an interview with the Daily Mail, journalist Cecilia Valenzuela reiterated her position on the presence of Patria Roja in the municipal proposal of Susana Villarán with Fuerza Social; however, Valenzuela does not remember the interests that she defended when she was in Canal 2, her lack of objectivity and her low credibility in the journalistic Peruvian means, which have moved some readers to rate her as “the zero journalist”.

Jaime Bayli is criticized by “journalist zero”.

Cecilia Valenzuela branded her colleague Jaime Bayly as a “propagandist” of Susana Villarán: “There was a time in which he made fun of Raúl Tola calling him “de Carreño”. After this, I believe that we can call him Jaime Bayly of Villarán ”, she said. However, some readers have said that Cecilia would go for Ivcher, and for everyone in the Government on duty, that is to say, a picturesque person and nothing more.

Their declarations came after pointing out that Bayly showed an interview that Valenzuela did to Villarán “in a fractioned way and out of context” in The Sniper, to end up reinforcing the candidate's answers: “I did not think that (Villarán) needed translators”.

Aeronoticias considers that these statements by Cecilia Valenzuela have an adverse effect for Lourdes Flores, since coming from such a person “they benefit Susana Villarán”, the correct Lourdes Flores does not need this “friend”, and when she was in Frecuencia Latina, she was pathetic from the journalistic point of view. Cecilia Valenzuela's statements in her boring and hepatic programs were many times inappropriate and had an undeniable commercial aim, and now she wants to get some help which should not be welcome, as it comes from a journalist who does not deserve any credibility, in any case if she wanted to help Susan Villarán, she he has achieved it, Lourdes does not need that help, she will win because there is a consensus and unless there are last-minute surprises, Lourdes Flores will be the new mayoress of Lima".

- End of translation - .

I have seen the new paragraph on public speeches in international respected places or forums. Congratulations. Sorry if I am sometimes a bit hard judging the English version. It is still improving. The problem is that what anti and pro Prem editors consider improvement is exactly the opposite :-), but that makes the intellectual tennis here interesting :-) Best regards :-)--PremieLover (talk) 21:06, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Best regards! PatW (talk) 21:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

New TPRF release on the PEP

There's a new report on the activities of the Peace Education Programm, which is quite informative, including a video. It says there are 10 DVDs provided especially for this intent, and it seems to reflect some effort to standardize the undertaking, maybe covering some unanswered questions we encountered here before. See it at http://tprf.org/en/programs/peace-education-program. TPRF seem to be offering their PEP internationally.--Rainer P. (talk) 00:28, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Undue weight in lead

Just looking at the lead with fresh eyes and noticed how unbalanced it is.

It contains two references to Rawat's "divinity" when one is enough.

1. many saw him as an incarnation of the divine.

2. ridiculed in the US for his youth and his supposed divine status.

Four criticisms.

1. described as a cult.

2. ridiculed in the US for his youth and his supposed divine status.

3. Journalists noting luxury automobiles and multiple residences

4. criticized for a lack of intellectual content in his public discourses (others were impressed)

And yet not one mention of his followers as described in the article

1. Many were attracted by the sense of joy, peace and commitment shown by Rawat's followers

2. Love flowed back and forth between him and his devotees

3. The premies were described as "cheerful, friendly and unruffled" and seeming "nourished by their faith".

4. To the 400 premie parents who attended, Rawat was "a rehabilitator of prodigal sons and daughters"

Momento (talk) 03:09, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Non-WP concerns have kept me less active here recently, but I am still planning to go ahead with the recommended arbcom request (best guess, this weekend sometime I will get to it) regarding where we ended off with the DRN process. I suspect that when that's all done, the lead will, if anything, prove to be too little weight, instead of too much as you suggest. However, if I read what you're saying correctly, you'd like to re-write the lead, please post your suggested edits here for discussion first, as per our usual process. thanks. -- Maelefique 10:16, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

In the interests of brevity I think the easiest way is to amalgamate the two "divine" comments in a NPOV way and reduce the "negative" from four items to the two, the ridicule in the media and that DLM was a cult and then it won't be necessary to add some balancing "positives" about his followers. Therefore,

"At the age of eight, he succeeded his father Hans Ji Maharaj as leader of the Divine Light Mission (Divya Sandesh Parishad) and as the new Satguru (lit. Perfect Master) to millions of Indian followers. Rawat gained further prominence when he traveled to the West at age 13 to spread his message. His claimed ability to impart direct knowledge of God attracted a great deal of interest from young adults but he was ridiculed by the media for his youth and his supposed divine status. Under his charismatic leadership, the Divine Light Mission (DLM) became the fastest growing new religious movement in the West, though it was sometimes described as a cult". Momento (talk) 21:56, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I only have a problem with the removal of the divinity aspect, as that is what the most recent discussions are about, and if the arbcom discussions result in any changes, that mention would have to go right back in anyway. Removing that point would seem to lessen it's impact, rather than show what a large part of his "mystique" was at the time, and that doesn't seem like the correct direction to be moving in, I'm waiting to see what other think as well here. -- Maelefique 15:16, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I think, Momento's suggestion is more concise and coherent than the current version, as it contains less debris from battles past. Looks to me like an improvement in neutrality.--Rainer P. (talk) 18:05, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

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