Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:16, 20 May 2018

Talk page stalkers are free to respond to any edit made here. I'm fine with general discussion of issues with New Page Patrol and related topics here, even if I have not responded for some reason. If you post here, I will reply here: I typically ping you in reply, but not always. To make sure you see a response, either watchlist this page or check back later. If I haven't responded and some time has passed, please feel free to leave a followup message.

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Special:CentralAuth/Sameer Reddy

Hello, Sameer Reddy confirmed as a sock for INNAjm. Best --Alaa :)..! 13:53, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, Alaa, I'll keep an eye on the accounts. They haven't techincally violated our policies here yet as the accounts haven't been used at the same time. I'll leave them a note letting them know what are policies are. TonyBallioni (talk) 18:00, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Tony, I sent this notification only to let you know about this accounts. Also, note that Sameer Reddy put "This user lives in Morocco" and INNAjm put "This user lives in Romania.". Best --Alaa :)..! 21:28, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

• New one وهبي --Alaa :)..! 19:06, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
• New one ఇలియానా with more than 100 edits in enwiki --Alaa :)..! 13:52, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Thanks, Alaa, just to give you an update on this, I've mentioned this to a local CU here and we're both monitoring all of these accounts to see if they are breaking our local policies around use of multiple accounts. Thank you for continuing to let me know about them, and I'll keep looking at anymore you bring too TonyBallioni (talk) 14:14, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks a lot Tony, I opened this request on commons also. Best --Alaa :)..! 14:19, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

No problem. We haven't done anything here yet, as none of the accounts have edited at the same time, which is technically allowed (you can call it serial editing rather than socking). If there is an original account with a local block on en.wiki that you know about, we can block the other accounts as well. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:24, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Tony there's highly relation with User:أليكس and User:Jnaga with confirmed behavioral --Alaa :)..! 15:01, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Perfect, that helps a lot. Thanks. I'm about to get off my computer, but I'll look at it later this weekend. Anyway, hope you're having a great weekend, Alaa, and that everything is going well for you :) TonyBallioni (talk) 15:04, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Alaa, I filed the paperwork at Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/أليكس. Clear behavioral connection on the most recent one. We have a sock here that isn't stale, so hopefully we can confirm to that and also flesh out any sleepers. TonyBallioni (talk) 21:35, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

User talk page access for banned editors

Hi Tony. While I don't have any concerns about your close of the community ban discussion regarding DanaUllman, I was wondering if there was a reason why you chose to prevent him from editing his own talk page (or if you ticked that box inadvertently): .

Usually we don't block talk page access unless a blocked/banned editor has shown an inclination to misuse/abuse their talk page. (See also the notes at WP:OPTIONS, Misplaced Pages:Protection policy#Blocked users.) Is there a history of such abuse in this case? I don't expect DanaUllman to offer a particularly compelling appeal of his ban any timme in the near future, but we don't generally preemptively close off lines of communication. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:16, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi TenOfAllTrades. See WP:BANBLOCKDIFF. The two main differences between a ban and an indefinite block are that bans need to be lifted by the community, while a block can be lifted by an individual admin, and that we usually revoke talk page access for banned editors. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:19, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Huh. I'm surprised, frankly. Yes, I'm aware of the difference between a block and a ban (I've been an admin since – good God, I've wasted my life – 2005), but I hadn't noticed that the policy specifies that we "usually" pull their talk page access. Still not sure it's necessary in this instance, or that that "usually" really reflects real-world practice and expectations...but it's definitely not worth arguing. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:31, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Not a problem. I was sure you knew there was a technical difference, but wanted to explain the policy reason why I had the box checked. ​ TonyBallioni (talk) 20:35, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	sorry...heres this barnstar. Thewinrat (OS of this day: Ubuntu 4.10 (Warty Warhog) (talk) 15:53, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

UTRS appeal #21460

Kim Jong-Un's Whirling Aluminium Tubes (block log • active blocks • global blocks • autoblocks • contribs • deleted contribs • abuse filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Time: May 10, 2018 19:53:19

Message: Hi, please see my question on this appeal. Thanks.

Notes:

• If you do not have an account on UTRS, you may create one at the administrator registration interface.
• Alternatively, you can respond here and indicate whether you are supportive or opposed to an unblock for this user and your rationale, if applicable.

--UTRSBot (talk) 19:53, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Just Chilling, let a note there. TonyBallioni (talk) 20:07, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Joker

"no firm consensus as to whether or not this article is about the character as a whole or the comics character"—actually, there is a firm consensus on this, demonstrated in both the article content and talk page archives. Could you please strike this? It was not up for debate. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:45, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Curly Turkey: I've tweaked it a bit, which hopefully addresses some of your concerns. I didn't see a firm consensus for it in that discussion, and it was raised. Regardless, the move didn't go through because there were reasons under the naming policy to not move it at this time. My close only affects the title and discussions relating to it, not article content. TonyBallioni (talk) 21:53, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

That doesn't address it at all. There was a single editor—who showed no evidence he had even read the lead of the article—who insisted it was about the comics character. What the article was about was not the subject of the discussion. What the article should be about has been the subject of exhaustive discussion on the article's talk page, as well as several other talk pages, such as at WP:COMICS. There has been talk of having a comics-specific article, and there even was one for a time (since deleted). The subject is long settled, and no impression should be given that it's not. Note that the editor in question has not suggested the article should be rewritten with a comics focus—they simply can't be bothered to peak at the actual article to even find out what it's about. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:32, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

In the RM itself there was discussion on the topic but no clear consensus on that point, which is why I felt the need to mention it. If there is existing consensus elsewhere that everyone who opposed agrees with, then it’s already the consensus for the content in the article and any attempts to change the content won’t happen. I was only addressing the arguments in the RM discussion, and felt the need to mention it as it was raised.The RM closed as not moved because of the strength of the other arguments based on the article title policy and conventions. That consensus was clear in the discussion, which is why it closed the way it did. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:53, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

• Hi Tony. I wish that closers in general would dispense with the bold “not moved” in favour or either “no consensus to move” or “consensus to not move”. This goes directly to moratoria, which I also think you should address in that close. I think it is a “no consensus” which usually means two months before the next RM. I think you declaring a defined moratoria is a good idea, because another RM will come, and better for it to come prepared than to come unilaterally by the most excited proponent. Even two weeks would be better than zero or undefined. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:56, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

(←) @SmokeyJoe and Curly Turkey: I've expanded based on both of your comments here, and hopefully this addresses it.

SmokeyJoe: normally "not moved" is a stronger close than "no consensus to move", which tends to be somewhere in between the two options. I get your point though, and I've clarified that there was a consensus against a move in general at this time. TonyBallioni (talk) 00:14, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

• Thanks Tony. On "not moved", it sounds like it is becoming on Misplaced Pages, or has become in the RM Wikipedian subcommunity, a term of art. I think that sort of thing needs to be consciously avoided, as a matter of Misplaced Pages:Accessibility. The page was "not moved" last week, and is "not moved" today, so nothing has changed? If a literal reading of the words doesn't convey the meaning, jargon is being used. Are these terms based on RMCI? I don't look there often, I have a particular dislike of important things being recorded there beyond the technical, as it is titled as a page not for the general editor. Closing statements, if a defined set, should be defined on the main WP:RM page, wouldn't you agree? --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:03, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

  The "not moved" terminology is lifted directly from WP:THREEOUTCOMES, and is the standard wording when there is a consensus not to move the article. You do make a good point though, SmokeyJoe, it is confusing and could definitely benefit from clearer wording. There's probably a case for bringing that up at WT:RM and getting the wording clarified as you suggest. I'm interested by Tony's suggestion there may be a fourth outcome lying somewhere between no consensus and not moved... that's probably overkill to be honest. Some people even dispute whether there is a difference between no consensus and not moved at all, given that there are usually no fixed rules on proposing the move again. (In the case of the Joker, it's clear to me that the subject should be left well alone for the foreseeable future, even had the outcome been no consensus).  — Amakuru (talk) 09:58, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

  Yes, the not moved terminology is directly found in THREEOUTCOMES.Amakuru re: a fourth outcome, I'd never suggest adding no consensus to move to RMCI (unless it was to combine no consensus and not moved, which I don't think I'd support now.) I was more making the point that it is a close you will see on occasion, usually when there is no consensus but the closer wants to emphasize that it has the same impact as not moved (or when it should be a not moved outcome, but one wants to hedge bets on a likely move review...) The Joker RM in my decision was firmly in the not moved camp, and since SmokeyJoe had brought up the no consensus to move wording here, I also mentioned it.I really like your point about two outcomes, and I think in some ways it is more accurate if not for the outcome of consensus to move, no consensus as to title, which I think having no consensus around as an outcome can help people understand better than if it were just two options. TonyBallioni (talk) 11:05, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

  Right, plus the occasional case where the article was already boldly moved, and the move proposal is to go back to the long-term stable title. In that situation, "no consensus" means default-to-moved rather than default-to-not-moved.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:53, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

  Oh, those ones are always fun... Honestly, in those cases it's best to go to RM/TR, have an admin move it back to the stable title (and move protect if need be) and then have the RM from the stable title. That isn't how it works in the real world, though, so yeah, keeping NC around to restore to a stable title is needed. TonyBallioni (talk) 13:22, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

  Added by User:Red Slash here. RMCI doesn't receive a lot of attention. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:23, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

OTRS question

After a ticket is handled satisfactorily, shouldn't it be closed? I've noticed many pages in Open Tickets Need to be answered, but the English ones have been answered and are still showing up. 14:47, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, tickets that have been answered should typically be closed. @AntiCompositeNumber and Primefac: handle a lot more tickets than me and could probably give more insight. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:55, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

👍🏻 15:00, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, basically. otrswiki:Help:FAQ#close elaborates more on the different states, but tickets that require no further action on our end should be closed. Only exception is spam, which is usually left open and moved to Junk. The Dashboard can take a minute or two to update after taking action on a ticket. --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 15:06, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

More on my talk. Primefac (talk) 15:13, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Block request

I had a very bad experience and a very bad dispute and an accidental misunderstanding on Test2 Misplaced Pages. The problem was that User:MechQuester was indeffed on enwiki and three other Wikis for abusing multiple accounts so I reported for their account to be globally locked and the same user, MechQuester, removed my sysop privileges on Test2 Misplaced Pages. Due to this, it is making me upset and therefore, I would like to be blocked for a day to two until the dispute is sorted out. I would like to be able to edit my talk page as well. Thanks. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:23, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi Pkbwcgs, I’m not willing to place a one day self-requested block, as that’s something that you should be able to control yourself. If you want to be blocked, I will block you for a minimum of one week with no talk page access and the agreement that another admin will not unblock you until the block expires. A self-requested block is not something you should do lightly, so I don’t want to make one lightly. If you still want me to block you under these conditions, you can let me know here. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:29, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

In that case, can you please do indef so that I can go off for some time and request unblock when I want to come back. Can you please do an indefinite block with talk page access. I do not have a figure in mind for how much time I want to be blocked for. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:35, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Pkbwcgs, see User:Beeblebrox/Self-blocking requirements. My requirements are roughly the same as these. If you want a self-requested block to force a timeout from Misplaced Pages, I will do it, but you will need to give me a specific time period (1 week or more) and it will be a block without talk page access. If you do not give me a clear answer such as "I want to be blocked for X weeks/months and I understand I will not have talk page access." I will not block you. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:41, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

I would like to be blocked here for a week without the ability to edit my talk page so that I can have some time off and I hope the dispute will be sorted out on that Wiki for a week and then only I can resume with editing Misplaced Pages. Editing just got too stressful so there had to be something in place to calm me down and this probably could be solution I can only hope for while it gets sorted out. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:53, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

 Done TonyBallioni (talk) 20:08, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

So... um... I know this is a stupid question, but I don't do much xwiki stuff so if anyone asks me a similar question in the future I'll know... blocking on enwiki does nothing to affect the block status on other projects, yes? Primefac (talk) 20:30, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

No. TonyBallioni (talk) 20:41, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

That's... kinda what I thought. Thanks. Primefac (talk) 21:41, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Add Health

I recently revisited the article on the study Add Health and in doing so also stumbled back upon the user Add Health who added a bunch of stuff copied and pasted from the study's website to the article. As you may remember (not sure if you do since admins block a gajillion people a day), after this user had been softblocked for an inappropriate username, and had then made several unsuccessful appeals of the block on their talk page, you made their block a hard block so they couldn't edit their own talk page anymore or create a new account. I suspect that this was a much too hostile way to deal with a clearly good-faith editor who wanted to improve an article, and that they should not have been blocked at all. Clearly they were confused by the huge amount of information presented to them and couldn't find the right page that had the relevant info on it. I think you should unblock them and more clearly explain how to disclose their editing so they can edit without violating WP:PAID or WP:COI. Every morning (there's a halo...) 21:28, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

They had ~5 rejected unblock requests, and no admin had decided to unblock them. Revoking TPA around the 3rd or later request is pretty normal. UTRS is available to them if they wish to make an appeal and it was linked to. I see no reason to unblock until they decide they want to comply with our policies and guidelines. TonyBallioni (talk) 00:38, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Alright, I guess that's fine. Every morning (there's a halo...) 01:11, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Regarding Luigi

As I'm known to drop off the face of the wiki-earth for days at a time, if you can figure something out that seems to work for an unblock of Luigi Laitinen then please go ahead without worrying about further input from me as the blocking admin. Whatever the solution they'll need some monitoring as there seems to be a bit of a language/comprehension issue.--Jezebel's Ponyo 23:07, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I'll see what they say, but agree with everything you've said there. Regardless, I'll give them a DS alert for BLP at the end of it to make anything in the future more flexible than block/appeal/conditions/whatever. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:13, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I could have sworn I already dropped a BLP DS warning on their talk, but I had them mixed up with another editor. --Jezebel's Ponyo 23:23, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

I just declined their unblock asking them to answer your questions. I hope that was OK.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 23:33, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

The number of editors appealing blocks who could also use a BLP DS notice is unfortunately high right now, so that's forgivable...Yeah, no problem declining until they answer the question. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:34, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Request for deletion

Hello Tony, please delete this and this page, so I can complete the global rename here --Alaa :)..! 03:24, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Alaa, I got one and Oshwah got another. You should be good to go. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:55, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks I should wait ruwiki sysops now --Alaa :)..! 03:58, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Event coordinator permission

It doesn't seem like there is any systematic qualification for receiving this permission. I regularly run events, and don't really understand why I have been refused. Can you explain to me why you decided I need to apply for this permission for every event I help to run, when some people have been given it without this qualification? --Jwslubbock (talk) 12:15, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

You've never had accountcreator, so there is no reason to switch it for security reasons, and you aren't that active on this wiki, so you don't fall in the guidelines for granting it permanently. You also in your request seemed to indicate that you don't actually run events that often either. TonyBallioni (talk) 12:18, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Requesting 2nd opinion

Hi Tony. If you have a minute could you take a look at the close here. I opened a discussion on the talk page but I'd let to get another opinion in case I'm missing something. Thanks... -Ad Orientem (talk) 13:46, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

I'd vote to overturn if it went to a DRV per WP:not counting heads, which, ironically given the name, says If the discussion shows that some people think one policy is controlling, and some another, the closer is expected to close by judging which view has the predominant number of responsible Wikipedians supporting it, not personally select which is the better policy. You have a valid policy disagreement where different editors disagree on what is controlling. One side had a clear numerical majority and the other side didn't have any particularly strong arguments to overcome that in my view. TonyBallioni (talk) 13:54, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Steve is a solid admin and I hate 2nd guessing another admins judgement calls. A lot of what we deal with is not black or white and judgement calls sometimes can go either way depending on who is looking at it. But this one really does look like maybe he didn't see how lopsided the discussion was. -Ad Orientem (talk) 13:58, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, agreed there on all counts. I can also see why he might have closed that way because a lot of the "keeps" were at the end, and that does tend to make them look larger than they actually are. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:03, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Looks like this is going to be settled at DRV. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:16, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

P.S. Since we discussed this outside of the AfD talk page I would gently suggest that you refrain from commenting at the DRV in case you were thinking about it. I don't want anyone wondering if I was canvassing. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:34, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Commented and disclosed this. I was planning on commenting on it anyway if it went there. TonyBallioni (talk) 20:45, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for making this comment about me, Tony. It means a lot to me to have my judgement appreciated. And I would certainly say the same about you, you have a lot of experience right across the Wiki and I always value your opinion in any discussions.  — Amakuru (talk) 18:57, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank YOU for the kind words, Amakuru. It is always good to see you around and get your views, even when we disagree TonyBallioni (talk) 18:55, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

German war effort arbitration case opened

You were recently listed as a party to or recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/German war effort. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/German war effort/Evidence. Please add your evidence by May 30, 2018, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/German war effort/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:01, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

TonyBallioni, you are awesome!

Thank you for adding the event coordinator permission to my account! I will use this power well. :-) DrX (talk) 01:42, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Referenced DOY is a bad idea?

Dear Tony. I would really appreciate if you can give your point of view on this discussion about referencing the 366 DOY articles. Thanks and keep being awesome :) --Rochelimit (talk) 17:05, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words, Rochelimit. I'm not overly familiar with those pages, so think it'd be better to let others comment. TonyBallioni (talk) 18:54, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Note and warning on my talk page.

I took your advice and read the note on my talk page. The first thing I'd like to clear up is that I think you have taken this all way too personally as I see that your misperception is that I've accused you of underhanded things. The truth is that I only made some simple observations of things you already freely admit to and are well known for because you express these ideas frequently. So, you can't accuse someone of things they already express to be their own agenda. For example, all one need do is read your comments and they can easily learn from the opinions you freely (and proudly) profess that you have a very strong aversion to the GNG. It does does not take a rocket scientist to figure out this aversion to the GNG is part of your personal agenda (don't worry about it everybody has one or two of them). So, for me to make this observation and point it out isn't accusing anyone of doing anything underhanded, it's simply noticing what your agenda is. I apologize if I came across as accusing you of anything, but I don't ever remember directly accusing you or alluding to anything that you haven't already freely admitted to yourself. So, I saw it as anything but accusing and I apologize if you did.

Plus, I had already agreed to drop all these so-called accusations long before you decided to continue to beat me up about it on my talk page. When I told you: "However, I think it's best to leave you alone now." "We will call it beating a dead horse and quash it here..." "I want to spare you any further indignities of having to come up with any more "explanations" for your behaviour." "Let's just say that even though I shouldn't, and don't have to AGF, that I will do so anyway in favor of knowing that I don't have to prove anything to anybody..."

Stop taking it so personally because the way you have taken this so personal concerns me and is affecting me in a negative way that I don't deserve because you became too WP:INVOLVED. This is born out by the fact that you put a warning on my talk page that I clearly didn't deserve. The bulk of the warning talks about disruptive editing revolving around a content dispute and asking me not to restore disputed content. However, I had received a warning 2 hours prior which already mentioned "edit warring" and I had made a grand total of "ZERO" edits to the page when you decided to come along and double-warn me for no good reason other than the fact that you were admittedly under the stress of feeling accused and taking things personally.

The reason I am bringing this to your attention here is because I feel I have been treated extremely unfairly and WP:ADMINABUSE recommends to me that, "If a user believes an administrator has acted improperly, they should express their concerns directly to the administrator responsible and try to come to a resolution in an orderly and civil manner." So, here I am in an orderly and civil manner, coming directly to you to express my concerns about how I feel you may not have acted properly toward me so we can resolve it.

First, I think you took things too personal and were too WP:INVOLVED to be leaving warnings on my talk page and it clouded your judgement because you were experiencing the understandable duress of feeling "accused" at the time so that you were unable to objectively see that I had already been warned and I had made no more edits since I had been warned the first time. The very fact that you continued to beat me up about accusations on my talk page even after I already agreed to drop it is evidence enough for anyone that you were still taking things too personal to be objectively leaving warnings on my page. I also think it would have been more appropriate to get another admin. to take a look at the situation since an outside viewpoint would not be influenced in any way by the stresses of feeling accused or taking things personally.

All I'm asking in order to resolve this is that you kindly rescind the warning and remove it from my talk page. I think this is a very reasonable request considering I have already agreed to stop any accusations before your warning even existed and I still have yet to make any "disruptive" edits since even THE FIRST warning existed and I also have not contested or even said a peep about the removal of the sentence. Plus, I apologized. All things considered, I think I'm giving a lot here and not asking that much in return to resolve this. Thanks. Huggums537 (talk) 02:58, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

• You are free to take me to ANI. I’ve already explained myself. I gave you good advice, and to be honest, you’re not that great of a WikiLawyer, so I don’t think ANI would go the way you expect it would. Talk page stalkers here are also always free to tell me I’m an idiot, I often am, and my crowd tends to be the type that will disagree with me at will.Also, you really should read up on your ALLCAPS. Warnings are not admin actions and you are free to blank them from your talk page at any time: they’re recorded in the history if they need to be cited at a noticeboard; I won’t be striking though. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:04, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
  • I have no reason to take you to ANI. Need I remind you that I already agreed to drop all accusations against you even before you posted the warning on my page? If I have no complaints against you other than just the warning that I want to resolve here now, then why refer me to ANI for that simple matter?? I appreciate you reminding me I can blank my own talk page, but that does not show much regard for my future as an editor here. Anyone could use that warning as a disadvantage and it would be on "my record". I feel that it was unfair to begin with and believe it shouldn't be on my record. If I wanted to blank it from my talk page then I would not have spent my precious time to come here and resolve the matter now. Again, I have no accusations to bring to ANI. I'm only asking that you kindly rescind the warning and remove it at your leisure. Thanks. Huggums537 (talk) 09:24, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

April 1st was over .... uhm, April 1st. I think that says it all. 03:08, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

If it's all really just a joke, as you suggest, then it should be no problem for this admin. to remove the warning and laugh it off... Huggums537 (talk) 09:32, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)::sigh:: Huggums537 just drop it now. Tony, I'm an idiot. That makes two of us. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:57, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm surprised you suggest me to "drop it" after I already made it clear I dropped it long before this admin. went to my talk page to beat me up some more about it. That's "hitting below the belt" and "not playing fair" when an admin. feels they are being accused so they promptly go to somebodies talk page to repay them by needlessly marring their record even though the person already agreed to "drop it" and leave them alone...Huggums537 (talk) 11:02, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) (talk page stalker) Huggums, I would strongly urge you to reconsider your manner of interacting with other editors, and perhaps your editing priorities. ANI has a very strong bias against new editors with low mainspace edit counts (say, less than 40%) and especially new editors who spend a disproportionate amount of time arguing over policies and guidelines, and at this point if you took anyone to ANI I would guess the result would be a boomerang, and you'd be lucky to come out of it without either a TBAN from edits to the policy/guideline space or a block. I'm not going to hold your conduct last summer when you were a brand new editor against you, but the way you've contorted yourself the last two times I interacted with you on the MOS:FILM talk page, rapidly escalating a minor dispute to mudslinging, then when threatened with sanctions by NRP (the same admin literally did the same thing both times) apologizing and "thanking" them, before continuing to do the same thing elsewhere, occasionally in areas not subject to discretionary sanctions ... well, it doesn't make you come across in a positive light. Maybe you should consider withdrawing from editing policies and guidelines entirely for a while, and write some articles on whatever topic it is that interests you. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:02, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

I would strongly urge you to pay attention to the conversation. I have already indicated I have no need for ANI. As for my editing choices, those are my business, kindly mind your your own. Thanks. Huggums537 (talk) 11:02, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) When your edits keep causing disruption on pages on my watchlist, they are my business. And it doesn't look to me like you have decided to drop it: your last edit to this page before I showed up consisted largely of the text it should be no problem for this admin. to remove the warning and laugh it off. This may just be what you consider harmless snark, but that's not how it looks to the rest of us. Anyway, if you are not willing to take my advice, that is your business. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:34, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Let's be clear Hijiri: You received the EXACT SAME discretionary sanction warning from NRP that I did the first time, and I specifically ASKED for the discretionary sanction warning the second time, So, OF COURSE I thanked him. In fact, I remember thanking him BOTH times. At any rate, I would strongly urge YOU to remember YOUR OWN involvement in ALL of the incidents you mentioned between us. And, I will thank you so very much for not holding my past conduct against me since I was a brand new editor and I'm very glad that I had a good excuse for it now, but what then was the excuse for your own conduct in all of these incidents between us? Huggums537 (talk) 11:20, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

If you're going to miss the point of my advice, that's also your business, I guess, but please don't come back and throw your misinterpretation in my face as a "gotcha". Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:34, 19 May 2018 (UTC)≠

• I haven’t read all of this, but from what I have, it looks like you’ve been given some good advice, Huggums537. Like I said if you still feel I’m abusing my admin bit here, you are free to ask for a review at AN or ANI. TonyBallioni (talk) 13:46, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
  • I'll take that as a stubborn refusal to be reasonable and cooperate as well as a general lack of concern and just be happy and say I tried. I'm not willing to waste any more of my time with ANI over something that easily could have been solved here amicably. I offended you now you have your satisfaction so all is well that ends well. Huggums537 (talk) 13:56, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
    • I have no clue what I'm offended about, because I don't feel offended by anything currently, just in need of coffee. You Wikilawyered to restore a removal of text from a guideline that has (and had) talk page consensus after you had been reverted by another editor, and continued to post rants about how everyone else was wrong but you. That's disruptive editing, and I always give that as "level 3", regardless of other warnings. The other (IMO, valid) warning from Legacypac was about attacking other editors, and was only related in that you also did that on the same talk page. Anyway, if you're dropping it, fine, but I'm still not exactly clear what I did that was against any behavioral expectations for administrators. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:06, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
      • TonyBallioni, That's perfect. If you're not offended, then I'm not offended either. However, I do need to clarify that after the other editor reverted me, I only made 3 edits and one of those edits held the clues to let you know I was dropping it. However, I will say this much in your defense: I actually did do a lot of ranting in those couple of edits and those clues to let you know I was dropping it were probably not that easy to see/find at all. So, it's not like you actually KNEW I had dropped it and just deliberately went to my page just for the sake of retribution or anything like that, you probably just saw the rants and thought it was disruptive and acted accordingly. However, all I was asking you to do is go back in hind-sight now that you DO KNOW the clues are there and reconsider your decision accordingly? Doesn't that seem like a fair thing to do in light of the fact that you are now aware of information you were not aware of when you first made the decision? Huggums537 (talk) 14:52, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
        • The warning was for disruptive editing, which your edits and rants were, even if it's not the intent. The purpose of a warning is to get someone to drop it, which you say we have, so it's all fine. Anyone is free to remove a warning (or anything other than a declined unblock request) from their talk page, so you are free to blank it, but I'm not going to. Like my friend the integer says below, telling you that you could take me to AN or ANI was my telling you in a diplomatic way that I really don't want to continue the conversation here, and that if you think it's a big enough deal that it needs to be continued, please open a thread so others can review my actions. Otherwise, I think we've covered about as much as we can here. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:00, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
        • Consider the matter closed then... Huggums537 (talk) 15:22, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

I think that that's extremely magnaminious of you :D —SerialNumber54129 15:45, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I try. Maybe I can be a great Misplaced Pages admin. one day... I can only hope! Huggums537 (talk) 15:54, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

(watching) @Huggums537: Can I just clarify a potential misunderstanding? The thing is, although you are, of course, fully entitled to "take that" any way you like, may I suggest it means something else? You should take it as something along the lines of "do something or get off the can," as the vernacular would have it. In other words, this conversation will only continue at ANI—one way or another. And without you necessarilly filing it, of course. Why not go write some articles? Take care, and Happy Editing! —SerialNumber54129 14:14, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Comment: TonyBallioni, I said I would leave you alone and I have, but now you've put another warning on my page that was not needed. You reverted my edit advising me not to mock another person on your page and I acknowledged the mistake with a corrected reversion and an apology. You then reverted my corrected edit without explanation and I left it alone at that, but you rewarded my efforts with the threat of being blocked.

I came to your page pleading with you to reconsider your decisions all while I subjected myself to the indignity of being berated by a parade of your page watchers and this still has not been good enough to satisfy as recompense for my errors in judgement.

Look, I'm very sorry that I made things personal for you, because when I'm honest with myself, I realize that the only reason you have been taking things so personally is because I made them personal in the first place. That was my mistake and I apologize for that. I realize now that somewhere along the way during my ranting I somehow managed to single you out and I should not have done that.

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, as you can see here. All I have asked is that you consider the possibility that you've made some errors in judgement as well. Maybe I didn't HAVE to open an RfC, but you didn't HAVE to close it either, and maybe I didn't HAVE to go on a rant like I did, but you didn't HAVE to respond with warnings when the rant was over and done with either. It seems like you have played tit for tat the whole way and pretending like you are an angel who couldn't have possibly misunderstood being provoked and yourself over-reacted. The only difference between the way YOU over-reacted and the way I over-reacted, is that you didn't make yourself out to look like a fool as I did with my ranting. Apart from that, it feels like you have made sure to repay me in like kind for making it personal.

It was never my intention to provoke you or single you out, as I've said many, many times, my rant was over and done with when I made it clear my intent was to drop it, but you and LegacyPac sure wasn't going to let me go without "teaching me a lesson" first. I got carried away with myself and you as an admin. should be able to understand that might happen from time to time. I support you in putting a stop to it when goes on and on, but when it happens as it has in this case where I'm doing everything as right as I know how and then quickly correcting my errors when they are brought to my attention, then you have to consider the possibility that just maybe your actions are based on the fact that you won't just forgive me for my transgressions and let bygones be bygones. Huggums537 (talk) 05:49, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) (Non-administrator comment) This is where WP:STICK is useful advice. In the scheme of things, a single template-warning you don't like is meaningless. Your defense that, because you left it alone after making the edit twice, it's irrelevant, is kind of silly. If you keep this up, this will end up at WP:ANI very soon, with either a TBAN from project-space or a full ban a likely outcome. power~enwiki (π, ν) 06:21, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) You restored a revision where you talked to a grown adult like a child with only minor changes that still kept the tone. No, I did not overreact, and no, this is not an issue of text not conveying meaning: the meaning was clear. Despite what you think, I have been far more patient with you than most editors and administrators would have. You will not, however, talk to other editors like they are children on my talk page. That is unacceptable behavior here or on any Misplaced Pages page. TonyBallioni (talk) 06:29, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Fine, I'm dropping the stick then. Thanks. Huggums537 (talk) 06:40, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

I'd like to add one last apology that I'm sorry I mouthed off to you. You've proven that I barked up the wrong tree. I now know how it feels to be painted in a bad light, and it SUCKS real bad! I think I've MORE than learned my lesson. Thank you for your patience. Huggums537 (talk) 11:14, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

TonyBallioni, I wanted to let you know that I also went back to strike the insulting and speculative comments that were made as a gesture of good will. Thanks. Huggums537 (talk) 19:16, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Accidental vandalism

Hi,

Due to my inexperience I have accidentally slightly messed up this Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement page. I was trying to add a statement, i.e. "statement by reissgo" by editing a chunk called "statement by (username)" but after I added my 2 cents I noticed there there was no new "statement by (username)" ready for the next editor. I have no idea how to untangle the mess I made. Sorry. Reissgo (talk) 12:08, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I fixed it for you. Next time please read the instructions, which tell you to copy and paste the section before writing your statement. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 13:18, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Hi Reissgo. That was a minor flub. It happens now and then. No big deal. Vandalism is deliberate and malicious editing which this was certainly not. Best regards... -Ad Orientem (talk) 13:36, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Reissgo, my initial response was unnecessarily snotty. I shouldn't have written it like that. Ad Orientem is right, it's nothing but a minor mistake and I was a dick about it. I apologize. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:13, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

No worries. Thanks for fixing it for me. Reissgo (talk) 16:27, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Your thoughts...

You were pinged, but I'm uncertain if it went through. – Conservatrix (talk) 13:29, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

It went through. I'll look at it in a bit :) TonyBallioni (talk) 13:29, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

On your Italian problem...

Not a clue. I'd have suggested Miranda and CH... so... do they not cite any sources? Ealdgyth - Talk 13:47, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

CH may or may not be citing Miranda, the bibliography there on this entry isn't great. Miranda is better, actually, and thank you for reminding me to check his bibliography to see if I can find any of those books online. I've been using him as a basis for an initial list off-wiki and then confirm using Pastor and Eubel. This cardinal nephew is obnoxious in that he is in the volume of Eubel before he starts listing their nationality explicitly. Pretty easy to confirm for someone who is Ep. or Aep. , but for people who just have general curial roles, I've been having to find other sources.Also, if you have any general comments on Papal conclave, March 1605 and Cardinal electors for the papal conclave, March 1605, I'd appreciate it. Trying to take the former to FAC and the latter to FLC, both because they're interesting, but also per my belief that those of us who work a lot behind the scenes should also try to contribute quality content. Never done anything featured before, so advice is appreciated :)​ TonyBallioni (talk) 14:04, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

I'll try to remember to have a look tomorrow evening when I'm in a meeting being bored out of my mind. Yeah, the "check the bibliography" trick is very useful for places like Miranda/CH or Medieval Lands where the site itself isn't really reliable, but they often have pointers to the useful stuff. I'm really surprised there aren't Italian printed works on the cardinals - you'd think that the Curia would at least have something like that ... something like Fasti Ecclesiae would seem to be basic scholarship... Ealdgyth - Talk 14:09, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

There are printed works: Eubel is the authoritative source according to the academic I reached out to about my conclave cleanup project: . The issue with this particular cardinal is twofold: first, Eubel starts listing nationality directly rather than by office held in volume IV. Innocent IX's creations are in volume III. The second issue is the one that is making sourcing difficult to find in either language without doing a manual search of the print editions/their scans: he shares the exact same name as his uncle, Pope Innocent IX, and for obvious reasons, most of the sourcing talks about Innocent IX. I reached out to one of the stewards who was Italian to see if there was any more accessible sourcing in Italian, and he came up with the same problem. Just parsing through Miranda, there seems to be some 18th century Italian works that might list something like "of Bologna". Just trying to find the right volume in Google and Archive.org is the trick. Thanks again for the reminder there :) TonyBallioni (talk) 14:18, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

And Miranda pointed to the right source. He was off by 10 pages, though as to what he was citing... Page 324 and not 314. Thanks for your help again! TonyBallioni (talk) 14:37, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) Tony, I'm not sure what you need here, but if it's about this chap, a search such as "Giovanni Antonio Facchinetti" 1606 gets a few results specifically about him – not that they say much. Which is probably why he doesn't have an entry in Treccani ... Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 15:12, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

All comments are welcome here! Unless of course, they are from guests talking to my valued talk page watchers like children (see above before it is archived.)Yes, I’d been trying strings with birth year and “Bologna” and none said the painfully obvious that he was in fact Italian, something semi-important to have cited on a list of electors. Maybe I’ll do a biographical stub on him now that we have some decent sourcing. Seems like an okay fellow as 16th century Italian clerics go. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:21, 20 May 2018 (UTC)