Talk:Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively ← Previous edit Next edit →Content deleted Content addedVisual WikitextInline

Revision as of 13:19, 7 October 2015 editFaustian (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers10,318 edits →Violence against ethnic Ruthenians ← Previous edit		Revision as of 13:42, 7 October 2015 edit undoFaustian (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers10,318 edits →Violence against ethnic Ruthenians Next edit →
Line 72:		Line 72:

	The 1931 Polish Census recorded significant numbers of ethnic Ruthenians who declared themselves as such. Graphics making reference to that Census need to accurately reflect the data reported, and not distort it. Historical accounts from the region note that the Ukrainian nationalists used violence, or threats of violence, against the Ruthenians who had rejected the Ukrainian nationalist agenda.] (]) 23:35, 6 October 2015 (UTC)		The 1931 Polish Census recorded significant numbers of ethnic Ruthenians who declared themselves as such. Graphics making reference to that Census need to accurately reflect the data reported, and not distort it. Historical accounts from the region note that the Ukrainian nationalists used violence, or threats of violence, against the Ruthenians who had rejected the Ukrainian nationalist agenda.] (]) 23:35, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
	:This guy is back. Unless someone can provide a Reliable Source indicating large numbers of self-identified Ruthenians being killed this is a marginal issue that deserves no more than a sentence or two in the article.] (]) 13:19, 7 October 2015 (UTC)		:This guy is back. Unless someone can provide a Reliable Source indicating large numbers of self-identified Ruthenians being killed this is a marginal issue that deserves no more than a sentence or two in the article. with regards to census, reliable sources place "Ukrainian" and "Ruthenian" together and maps reflect this. Examples are here: , here: , even Piotrowski while including a table with official census results lumps them together as Ukrainians in the text body: which is the standard consensus approach of writing about this. No reason to make the issue more confusing by describing two ethnicities instead of one. ] (]) 13:19, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 13:42, 7 October 2015

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12Auto-archiving period: 2 months

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on July 11, 2009, July 11, 2011, and July 11, 2013.

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Poland Mid‑importance

	Poland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Poland on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PolandWikipedia:WikiProject PolandTemplate:WikiProject PolandPoland
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Ukraine Mid‑importance

	Ukraine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ukraine on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Soviet Union: Russia / History / Military Mid‑importance

	Soviet Union portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Soviet Union, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Soviet UnionWikipedia:WikiProject Soviet UnionTemplate:WikiProject Soviet UnionSoviet Union
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Russia portal This article is supported by WikiProject Russia (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the history of Russia task force.
	This article is supported by the Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force.

Military history: European / German / Polish / Russian & Soviet / World War II

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	European military history task force
	German military history task force
	Polish military history task force
	Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force
	World War II task force

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Death Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12Auto-archiving period: 2 months

mutual ethnic cleansing of Ukrainian and Polish people

made Ukrainian Insurgent Army and the Polish Army with Polish battalions Schutzmannschaft (107, 202) , and Soviet partisans in 1943 during the Second World War in Volyn.--Бучач-Львів (talk) 10:19, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

In traditional Polish historiography biased perceived as ethnic cleansing exclusively Polish population; in Ukrainian - like "action in response to" the atrocities of the Poles on Ukrainian civilians. This topic is much more studied by Polish historians who deal with this problem by the end of the Second World War. In the works of Polish historians tends to exaggerate the Polish victims by impairing Ukrainian victims counted dead Ukrainian at the hands of the Poles as Poles were killed by Ukrainian and included among the Polish victims of other people in part even of Polish nationality who died in very different circumstances and who had no relation to Volyn Massacre. Ukrainian historians began to investigate primarily the subject after restore of Ukraine's independence in 1991.--Бучач-Львів (talk) 07:16, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Volhynia was not a genocide while Srebrenica was?

Here is an interesting fact how the western world sees the sufferings of the Polish nation:

Volhynia and Eastern Galicia massacre - over 120.000 Polish women, children and UNARMED men killed - verdict - not a genocide at all.
Srebrenica massacre - 8.000 Bosniak ARMED soldiers killed - verdict - of course, it was a genocide.

Why? Because the victims of Volhynia were Polish? 195.69.81.75 (talk) 14:58, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

You perfectly got the point. Antipolonism is very strong nowadays, people generally deny the sufferings of the Polish nation. Claiming that the Volhynian massacre was not a genocide is like saying that the massacre of the Armenians was not a genocide as well. 159.205.246.81 (talk) 21:45, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Please note that this is an article talk page, not a forum for general discussion of personal opinions. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 03:58, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

I just wanted to indicate some historical facts, not view my opinions. My intention is to show that Misplaced Pages should label the Volhynian & Galician massacre as a genocide, not only an ethnic cleansing, don't make a taboo of it, talk about it, discuss. Use common sense, and be objective, please. 195.69.81.75 (talk) 09:01, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Your reliable sources for this contention? Again, this is not a not a blog or forum. If you want to 'discuss' this, use your common sense and go to an appropriate venue. Read WP:TALK as I have already pointed out to you. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 09:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

https://www.academia.edu/7629265/Ethnic_Cleansing_Genocide_or_Ukrainian-Polish_Conflict_The_Mass_Murder_of_Poles_by_the_OUN_and_the_UPA_in_Volhynia Katchanowski claims it wasn't a genocide. He uses however the lower estimate 35 000, so if his estimate is wrong the subject returns. It's mathematics, not to be discussed.Xx236 (talk) 08:33, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

The common way of referring to it, for whatever it's worth, is "ethnic cleansing with elements of genocide". One can disagree with that characterization and compare it to Srebrenica, but unless there's reliable sources on the table, discussion is pointless.Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:24, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

The truth is, that at least 100.000 Polish unarmed men, women, and children were murdered in the Volhynian (so called) massacre. The truth is that it was indeed a genocide. The world doesn't want to accept that fact mostly because the numerous sufferings of the Polish nation are consciously omitted by the worldwide antipolish propaganda, which pictures the Poles mainly as bums, trouble-makers, alcoholics, thugs, antisemites, aggressive and non-intelligent animals. 78.8.90.252 (talk) 20:30, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

About Shmuk's book

he joined the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, which was engaged in a struggle to drive both German and Soviet occupants from Ukrainian soil - UPA murdered rather Polish civilians.Xx236 (talk) 07:29, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Eastern Lesser Poland

Lesser Poland isn't about Eastern Lesser Poland. Xx236 (talk) 07:34, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Number of victims of the Volhynian Genocide

The number of Polish children, women and unarmed men, that were murered by the Ukrainian UPA army during the Volhynian Genocide was around 120.000. Many historians estimate that the number of Polish victims was not lower than 80.000 and could reach 140.000 people. 192.162.150.105 (talk) 12:02, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Violence against ethnic Ruthenians

The 1931 Polish Census recorded significant numbers of ethnic Ruthenians who declared themselves as such. Graphics making reference to that Census need to accurately reflect the data reported, and not distort it. Historical accounts from the region note that the Ukrainian nationalists used violence, or threats of violence, against the Ruthenians who had rejected the Ukrainian nationalist agenda.2601:44:8901:4240:19C6:8177:A623:25B6 (talk) 23:35, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

This guy is back. Unless someone can provide a Reliable Source indicating large numbers of self-identified Ruthenians being killed this is a marginal issue that deserves no more than a sentence or two in the article. with regards to census, reliable sources place "Ukrainian" and "Ruthenian" together and maps reflect this. Examples are here: , here: , even Piotrowski while including a table with official census results lumps them together as Ukrainians in the text body: which is the standard consensus approach of writing about this. No reason to make the issue more confusing by describing two ethnicities instead of one. Faustian (talk) 13:19, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Myroslav Chekh. Як Москва відкрила браму до пекла на Волині. І українці, і поляки були пішаками у грі великих держав // «iPress.ua» from: Mirosław Czech. Jak Moskwa rozpętała piekło na Wołyniu // Gazeta Wyborcza, 08.03.2013 21:14

Categories: