| Revision as of 12:51, 27 April 2015 editTaivoLinguist (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers32,239 edits →Seeking consensus to make an edit semi-protected request on 14 April 2015← Previous edit | Revision as of 19:56, 27 April 2015 edit undoLeventopoulo (talk | contribs)18 editsNo edit summaryNext edit → | ||
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| :::Please read ], carefully. And we're not going to change the name of a country because you don't like it, or don't like Misplaced Pages's decision. This talk page doesn't have the authority to overrule ] even if such a consensus were reached here, so the discussion is rather pointless. We've explained the policy to you, and whether you like or not doesn't really matter.] (]) 12:03, 27 April 2015 (UTC) | :::Please read ], carefully. And we're not going to change the name of a country because you don't like it, or don't like Misplaced Pages's decision. This talk page doesn't have the authority to overrule ] even if such a consensus were reached here, so the discussion is rather pointless. We've explained the policy to you, and whether you like or not doesn't really matter.] (]) 12:03, 27 April 2015 (UTC) | ||
| ::::], if you don't dispute the process by which ] was conducted, then you have no basis whatsoever to dispute the validity of the ] of that process. That's the end of the matter. ] is the English Misplaced Pages standard. If you can't live with the fact that the most commonly used name of the Republic of Macedonia in English is "Macedonia", then I invite you to use the Greek Misplaced Pages where the Greek POV is pushed without restraint. --] (]) 12:51, 27 April 2015 (UTC) | ::::], if you don't dispute the process by which ] was conducted, then you have no basis whatsoever to dispute the validity of the ] of that process. That's the end of the matter. ] is the English Misplaced Pages standard. If you can't live with the fact that the most commonly used name of the Republic of Macedonia in English is "Macedonia", then I invite you to use the Greek Misplaced Pages where the Greek POV is pushed without restraint. --] (]) 12:51, 27 April 2015 (UTC) | ||
| :::] Again you confuse the matter.. First of all I am disputing what wikipedia says about this country in a perfectly democratic way, I am not politically powerful enough to change a whole country's name. Secondly its not as simple as "I don't like it", this has nothing to do with me, this has to do with the legacy of those people who lived and still live in the region and the historical facts that follow them. You told me to read ]? Why don't you read it yourself? You are the one who confuses facts with fictional propaganda. | |||
| ::::] Excuse me? A court decision can be conducted fairly and yet its outcome might me unjust and untruthful, so anyone can dispute its outcome. It is unbelievable how you derive to this deranged logic.. I'm just in awe. As for the second part of your "logical" response, clearly you didn't get what I was saying in my previous response. If everyone wished to write whatever he thinks is true, without reading facts from all sides, or whatever is common in his language then the world has really gotten dumber. What happened to the neutral point of view? I thought that's what wikipedia is about. It doesn't look like that if I can insult someone in Greek and say its the Greek Misplaced Pages standard. (]) | |||
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Semi-protected edit request on 23 January 2015
 | This edit request to Republic of Macedonia has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The name of the country you describe is F.Y.R.O.M (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia). That is the official name and that is how it should be called. It is recognized by the United Nations as F.Y.R.O.M. not as Republic of Macedonia. Macedonia is a Greek county and that is why it couldn't be named as Macedonia when it was created. Please make the change. Misplaced Pages is a serious organization and must be very carefull with it's writings. Thank you P.S Take a look at the United Nations http://search.un.org/?ie=utf8&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=utf8&Submit=Go&__utmt=1&__utma=114554307.318540190.1422000016.1422000016.1422000016.1&__utmb=114554307.1.10.1422000016&__utmc=114554307&__utmz=114554307.1422000016.1.1.utmcsr%3Dgoogle%7Cutmccn%3D%28organic%29%7Cutmcmd%3Dorganic%7Cutmctr%3D%28not+provided%29&query=fyrom&tpl=un&lang=en&rows=10 79.129.115.194 (talk) 08:15, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
Not done and will not be done - please see WP:NCMAC as referred to 4 times higher up this page, and numerous times in the archives - Arjayay (talk) 08:23, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2015
| This edit request to Republic of Macedonia has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
You should really consider altering the article title along with every reference to a "Macedonian" whatever, thus alligning with the international treaties and the intrernationally acceptable term "FYROM". Thanks for Your consideration. Dominus72 (talk) 11:02, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
Not done and will never be done. See WP:MOSMAC and WP:ARBMAC. --Taivo (talk) 12:07, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
Seeking consensus to make an edit semi-protected request on 14 April 2015
Dear administrators and privileged users
I must request that this page be edited to portray the correct facts of current standing and decisions. This page concerns a country's origin and history and it must mirror the true facts that modern scholars and historians agree upon, something that simple users, who are clouded by the popular opinion and their own personal belief, cannot understand. Writing history is about truth and not a one sided belief. Not anyone can write history correctly, something must be researched and studied before it is considered a historical fact. If you still don't understand where I'm going at, I will lay this out flat, I am talking about the naming "dispute" (which really shouldn't be a dispute) of FYROM, which you, in a very disrespecting and ignorant way call Macedonia. The internationally recognised name of this country is "FYROM - Former Yugoslavic Republic of Macedonia" and not the "Republic of Macedonia" which you so blatantly refer this country as and have taken upon yourselves to create documents that dispute internationally recognised agreements. This site acts as a encyclopaedia (from the greek word ἐγκύκλιος παιδεία, meaning "general education" or "circular education") and not a self acknowledged legal entity that sparks a flame between countries.
The following sources were used, please care to read them clearly, as you have obviously not:
Misplaced Pages article about "Historiography"
Misplaced Pages article about "Encyclopedia"
Misplaced Pages article about "Historians"
The name FYROM is officially recognised
Read the last paragraph of the introduction please
WP:ARBMAC No propaganda please. Also I cant believe that this article starts with the name "Macedonia"..
I hope these sources are adequate enough.
Thank you for your time.
Leventopoulo (talk) 13:03, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}}template. Alakzi (talk) 13:46, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Leventopoulo I don't know what you think you're doing or what you're aiming to do with the "Removed the Template" above, but whatever it is, you're most likely not doing it. And no, there is no consensus for the strong POV you want to push, there is a consensus, even a policy, to the contrary.Jeppiz (talk) 18:06, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
I must apologise for the "Removed the Template", I didn't know if you could see that I edited out the template. So what you're saying is that there's no consensus for my POV but another person's one, which is contrary to mine? I don't think that there is fairness in that. Also I expressed not only my point of view but, in fact, the views of the whole scientific community that studies history, no need to mention the whole Hellenic nation. What I ask, is for there to be a clear distinction between the historical region of Macedonia, of which FYROM is only but the northern part, and the reality that Macedonia is not the official name of this 25 year old nation. Seeing the rejection of previous user attempts to revert this erroneous claim that reverts historical facts, I don't have high hopes that my request will be answered. I do hope that someone less close-minded and able to accept new ,although in reality old, facts reads this. Leventopoulo (talk) 18:28, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- You ask what difference there is between the region and the country. The difference is quite clear, the region is Macedonia (region) and the country is Republic of Macedonia. Users typing in Macedonia come to a short page explaining the different definitions, in a perfectly neutral manner.Jeppiz (talk) 15:47, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- Leventopoulo, When the Misplaced Pages consensus that led to WP:MOSMAC was worked out, there were as many Greeks as anyone else involved in the discussion. It took several months to complete the process, and in the end it was the result of 1) careful consideration of all points of view and 2) careful analysis of common English language usage. Official positions of the Greek government are irrelevant. Official positions of the Macedonian government are irrelevant. Official positions of the UN are irrelevant. The only relevant matter is common English usage and it was determined through a complete analysis of usage in a wide variety of English language sources that "Macedonia" is the most name in English for the Republic of Macedonia. You mention "official" usage. "Republic of Macedonia" is the official name of the country as found in the only official document that matters--the Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia. It doesn't matter what other countries call it, the only official name of any country is the name it calls itself in its constitution. "Greece" is not the official name of Greece, it is the most common English name. The official name of Greece is "Hellenic Republic" (that's probably close to the correct translation, but you get the point). So "official" doesn't matter or else we'd have to move the article on "Greece". You are working under a completely false assumption. --Taivo (talk) 18:01, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Jeppiz I did not ask what the difference is, I know what the difference is. I asked you to make it clear. When someone types in "Republic of Macedonia" the first word that appears is only "Macedonia" and after that it says its self declared "official" name. I believe that it only confuses the matter more, and its not at all neutral.
- Taivo I did not dispute the process of which of this WP:MOSMAC was conducted, I only dispute its outcome. As for your logic on FYROM's self declared title, its entirely one sided, let me explain why... Greece is not the official title of Hellas (its "Hellenic democracy" which is the exact translation), yet everyone uses it. Does it cause any problems to the identity of another country? What if Greece changed its official title to "The republic of France" does it make it the official document that everyone will follow? If you think that a country that lives by non-democratic standards and no fair-play can change History and copy the identity of over a million people who have lived in the region for over 3000 years, and everyone decides to grant them this infringement, not an infringement upon Hellas but the entire legacy of those people to humanity, then I believe that this conversation is meaningless and its as if I'm talking to a wall. It really is a moral and a philosophical question, let me ask you. If everyone believe it, does it make it true? And as Orwell would have said, if everyone thinks 2+2=5, does it make it so? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leventopoulo (talk • contribs) 09:14, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- Please read WP:SOAPBOX, carefully. And we're not going to change the name of a country because you don't like it, or don't like Misplaced Pages's decision. This talk page doesn't have the authority to overrule WP:MOSMAC even if such a consensus were reached here, so the discussion is rather pointless. We've explained the policy to you, and whether you like or not doesn't really matter.Jeppiz (talk) 12:03, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- Leventopoulo, if you don't dispute the process by which WP:ARBMAC was conducted, then you have no basis whatsoever to dispute the validity of the result of that process. That's the end of the matter. WP:MOSMAC is the English Misplaced Pages standard. If you can't live with the fact that the most commonly used name of the Republic of Macedonia in English is "Macedonia", then I invite you to use the Greek Misplaced Pages where the Greek POV is pushed without restraint. --Taivo (talk) 12:51, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- Jeppiz Again you confuse the matter.. First of all I am disputing what wikipedia says about this country in a perfectly democratic way, I am not politically powerful enough to change a whole country's name. Secondly its not as simple as "I don't like it", this has nothing to do with me, this has to do with the legacy of those people who lived and still live in the region and the historical facts that follow them. You told me to read WP:SOAPBOX? Why don't you read it yourself? You are the one who confuses facts with fictional propaganda.
- Taivo Excuse me? A court decision can be conducted fairly and yet its outcome might me unjust and untruthful, so anyone can dispute its outcome. It is unbelievable how you derive to this deranged logic.. I'm just in awe. As for the second part of your "logical" response, clearly you didn't get what I was saying in my previous response. If everyone wished to write whatever he thinks is true, without reading facts from all sides, or whatever is common in his language then the world has really gotten dumber. What happened to the neutral point of view? I thought that's what wikipedia is about. It doesn't look like that if I can insult someone in Greek and say its the Greek Misplaced Pages standard. (talk)
- Please read WP:SOAPBOX, carefully. And we're not going to change the name of a country because you don't like it, or don't like Misplaced Pages's decision. This talk page doesn't have the authority to overrule WP:MOSMAC even if such a consensus were reached here, so the discussion is rather pointless. We've explained the policy to you, and whether you like or not doesn't really matter.Jeppiz (talk) 12:03, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- Taivo I did not dispute the process of which of this WP:MOSMAC was conducted, I only dispute its outcome. As for your logic on FYROM's self declared title, its entirely one sided, let me explain why... Greece is not the official title of Hellas (its "Hellenic democracy" which is the exact translation), yet everyone uses it. Does it cause any problems to the identity of another country? What if Greece changed its official title to "The republic of France" does it make it the official document that everyone will follow? If you think that a country that lives by non-democratic standards and no fair-play can change History and copy the identity of over a million people who have lived in the region for over 3000 years, and everyone decides to grant them this infringement, not an infringement upon Hellas but the entire legacy of those people to humanity, then I believe that this conversation is meaningless and its as if I'm talking to a wall. It really is a moral and a philosophical question, let me ask you. If everyone believe it, does it make it true? And as Orwell would have said, if everyone thinks 2+2=5, does it make it so? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leventopoulo (talk • contribs) 09:14, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
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