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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by User:Jaqeli

Gerda Arendt

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Gerda Arendt

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Francis Schonken (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:58, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Gerda Arendt (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Gerda Arendt restricted : "Gerda Arendt is indefinitely restricted from: (...) making more than two comments in discussing the inclusion or exclusion of an infobox on a given article..."

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

(all diffs are edits by Gerda Arendt:)

1. 19:39, 6 April 2014 (edit summary: "...second and last contribution to this discussion") – "...That I would answer the "infobox yes or no" question with "yes, why not?" is known enough..." (at Talk:Frédéric Chopin)
2. 13:24, 2 February 2015 adding "| {{diff|Frédéric Chopin|622753180|622751386|Chopin}} || style="background: red" | person || 25 Aug" to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Infobox#Discussions and reverts
3. 07:46, 15 February 2015 "Support infobox (repeating from 2014, I am restricted to not make a further comment in the matter)" (at Talk:Frédéric Chopin#Discuss infobox yes or no)
4. 09:38, 9 March 2015 – changing "| {{diff|Frédéric Chopin|622753180|622751386|Chopin}} || person || 25 Aug" to "| {{diff|Frédéric Chopin|622753180|622751386|Chopin}} || person || style="background: red" | 25 Aug" (emphasis added) at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Infobox#Discussions and reverts

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. Date Explanation
2. Date Explanation

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Discussed the inclusion of the infobox in the Frédéric Chopin article three or four times, on at least two talk pages. I have brought to Gerda's attention before (e.g. " ... please stop discussing individual article's infobox inclusions on various pages not directly connected to the article's talk page (e.g. here) as it are "comments in discussing the inclusion or exclusion of an infobox on a given article" per Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Gerda Arendt restricted. I think I explained this before." ) that probably the discussions *on individual articles* at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Infobox (e.g. ) are to be seen as separate counts in the ArbCom remedy cited above, and am now submitting it here to let others decide.

inserted example of bringing this to Gerda's attention before. --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:39, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

--Francis Schonken (talk) 10:04, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Gerda Arendt

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Gerda Arendt

Wir danken dir, Gott, wir danken dir, BWV 29, GA as of today, thank you, Dr. Blofeld, but only 14 of 31 GAs in Classical compositions are by me ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:55, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

@SchroCat: I repeat my simple request of yesterday, which was not about infoboxes:

I just welcomed a new user who seems to come from a Japanese background. I recommend that you address such people on their talk page in very simple English because they may have no idea that article history and edit summaries even exist. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Please go to the new user's talk and explain why you reverted their third edit in this Misplaced Pages. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:46, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

The number of emails I found in my archive as sent to SchroCat is 2. I am willing to publish them completely with the exception of one too personal line about another editor. Quoting from the first, sent 4 March 2015 in response to one from him:

As you know I am all for infoboxes but don't feel guilty of ever having "forced" one, and certainly not in "all articles". That myth is perpetuated, sadly so. What can we do?

What can we do? I can see now how pointy my second email was because the subject was "laugh". I should have known that one has to stay seriuz in infobox matters. I envy a bit people who can say: I've never taken part in the infobox wars. The not taking part in them is one of my favorite parts of Misplaced Pages - I feel like the nurse on the battleground and will not leave ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:21, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@T. Canens: You brought up a very interesting question: what the restriction is meant to be. I confess that I have lived with it for a while now, and generally find it helpful to walk away after two comments (example pictured), but why I was restricted I still don't know and stopped asking. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:35, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I think all diffs show that I am aware of the restriction and don't need a reminder ;) - I am rather proud of having gained the status of the most severely restricted person in the infobox wars without ever having been in an edit war, - not easy ;) - I am happy that an article where my addition of an infobox has been regarded as disruptive (I would have said premature) in 2013 received one today. Thank you, Voceditenore! - I am not interested in boomerang actions, but would be helped if the questionable closing of a discussion on Chopin could be evaluated by independent minds. Votes were simply counted, regardless of the same person accepting or even installing a compromise later. I think a revert and asking who would accept the compromise might be a good idea. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:35, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Andy Mabbett

• The 2 February and 9 March edits are part of a log Gerda maintains. They are not part of a discussion.
• It would be stretching a point to suggest that the edits made on 6 April 2014 and over ten months later on 15 February 2015 are part of the same discussion
• The above is especially true when the April 2014 discussion was archived in October 2014.

We saw in the recent review of the infobox case how some editors use existing sanctions to harass the affected editors. Is this another case of the same thing? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:52, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Postscript: The 15 March edit consists solely of Gerda adding style="background: red" to change the background colour of a table cell, and updating a time stamp of not the time of her edit Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:36, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Re "Main editors": It is stated here, in relation to debates about whether an article should include an infobox, that ""ArbCom has ruled... that editors should defer to those who created and developed the article.". I find such an assertion to be bogus, but perhaps that impression has in the past been given? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by SchroCat

I have had reason to ask Gerda to refrain from commenting on my talk page recently (and to stop emailing me about IBs.) While Chopin may or may not be a valid matter, the three comments in Talk:Laurence Olivier#Infobox (, and ) are a breach. Although I don't think the related comment on my talk page is relevant, that on Ian Rose's page may be a fourth. I haven't done a search of the user's edit history to see if there are any further comments elsewhere.

In relation to the recent William Burges discussion, although Gerda kept to two comments on the talk page ( and ), this third comment is about the IB, and is borderline (or underhand) canvassing. This (fourth) is also about the Burges IB, as is this (fifth) and this (sixth). To crown it all, and where I think she really has overstepped the mark into borderline harassment, I was not happy to receive an email from her trying to discuss the Burges IB.

In relation to a different IB matter, I recieved this (which is about a user who added an infobox that I removed), and an email containing a rather pointy and incorrect message, again about infoboxes. As you can see from the thread on my talk page, I have had to ask Gerda not to post on my talk page, or email me about IBs (although why I should have to I really don't know).

I think there is enough here that ArbCom should look a little more closely about this user's interaction with regard to infobox discussions.– SchroCat (talk) 15:50, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

@Cailil, we will have to disagree about the Burges comments, particularly the fact that they are all soft canvassing. The comment to Graham Beards (who opposed an IB) is an extension of the conversation, however you try and cut it and that is before you take into account the emails to me about two separate IBs. - SchroCat (talk) 18:57, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

@Rich Farmbrough, I hope you have some evidence to back up your rather tawdry accusation below? I look froward (with neither hope, nor expectation) in seeing you strike out the slur (and you managed to avoid the bit that half the reply was all about the inclusion of the IB, her third in that thread) before continuing the matter on Ian Rose's talk page. As to it being a "direct allegation of WP:OWN", that is laughable, as can be seen from the context. - SchroCat (talk) 08:57, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

@Cailil, "does not give others licence to goad them": as per my comment above, please provide proof that is the case, or strike. You too have also managed to avoid that half the reply (on her third comment in the thread was all about the inclusion of the IB, which is in breach of the restrictions. There is a singular lack of GF here, especially as we are discussin a user who has gamed the restrictions upon them, and has turned to harassment by email and on talk pages to continue their discussions. This is not a fit or appropriate way for an editor under restriction to behave. - SchroCat (talk) 10:40, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

"You and Ian Rose made remarks about an article's "Main editors" as an appeal to authority and as a means of excluding Gerda Arendt's point of view on the infoboxes": a deeply, deeply flawed view of the thread;

• "You accused Gerda Arendt of WP:OWNERSHIP". Utter balls, as can be seen from the context;
• I'm glad you've mentioned the emails: you've been happy to act as judge jury and executioner without the evidence in front of you and with a rather peculiar take on the harrassment, gaming and canvassing that has been going on. I will indeed take it directly to one of the Arbs: I suspect they will be more level headed than you have been. - SchroCat (talk) 12:32, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rich Farmbrough

Two of the Olivier comments are not about the inclusion or exclusion of that infobox at all, but the somewhat odd premise being promoted that the decision is up to the "main editors" of the article. The last one, be it noted, is in response to a direct allegation of WP:OWN by ShroCat.

It is disappointing to see this enforcement request being brought by Frances on clearly spurious grounds. It is also disappointing to see SchroCat's statement including the Olivier diffs. Making WP:OWN (or any other) accusations against an editor you know cannot respond, is poor form. If the intent was to bait Gerda into a response it is even worse.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 23:17, 9 March 2015 (UTC).

Statement by Ritchie333

Notwithstanding Gerda's "go ahead punk, make my day" remark, the three comments in a row were made over a week ago and the debate came to a natural end. There doesn't seem to be anything that requires actively enforcing. Ritchie333 23:29, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Collect

Try as I might, I see no conceivable violation of her restriction. Even counting a !vote as being a "comment" which I find a tad iffy. Calling a font-colour change a "comment" is not impressive. Collect (talk) 13:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Ched

I am glad to see that "boomerang" has been mentioned. I've always wondered how Arbcom managed to restrict 2 editors on the pro-infobox side, and yet only remind those removing them. Especially given that Gerda had never been blocked, and multiple members of the exclusive "composer" group have multiple blocks for edit warring. In fact, about the only "warnings" I can recall before the 2013 case involved editors removing infoboxes with "do not revert MY edit". Now I have no doubt that many of said composer group would like nothing better than to be rid of Gerda and the scandalous idea of having an infobox in any of "their" articles, but I pesky old WP:Local consensus thing has been a stumbling block in so many efforts. The (very) recent efforts to remove Pigsonthewing from all things infobox resulted in there actually being fewer restrictions in his particular case.

I know that Gerda won't "appeal" the 2013 case, so I'll skip that paragraph.

The hounding and harassment that has come from a few select members of that composer group does indeed need to be considered though. And while I'm content to sit up here, I ask the reviewing admins to consider this. — Ched :  ?  21:59, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Atsme

I see no evidence that indicates Gerda is in violation. I agree with a lot of what Ched described, although I have not researched the history to that extent. However, based on what was presented here, my conclusion is zilch - nada - and I don't think there is anything I've overlooked. Atsme☯ 00:06, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Gerda Arendt

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Looking at the evidence presented here there is no case to answer. The diffs presented show 2 comments and Gerda Arendt's awareness of their restriction. I note this diff by Francis Schonken where they closed the discussion (with what reads like a !supervote) they claim that Gerda Arendt contributed twice too, and then opened this thread. These actions make this request look like Francis Schonken is trying to remove Gerda Arendt from a content dispute via Arbitration Enforcement. The whole situation may be worth looking at but the proximate matter of Gerda Arendt breaking their two comment limit is a non-issue with the current evidence--Cailil 12:51, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

• @SchroCat: The William Burges comments are also not actionable IMHO. Gerda Arendt is restricted from discussing the inclusion/exclusion of infoboxes not from discussing how they are treated in those discussions in semi-whisical threads on user talk pages (which this is) or discussing the boxes generally. What they cannot keep posting about is inclusion/removal. That said I don't think the behaviour in the diffs you're presented is eitehr positive or constructive and Gerda Arendt certainly is line-stepping here but alone these are not actionable. The Olivier diffs however do change the complexion of that, and significantly. I'd like some more sysops to comment before I go further here--Cailil 18:18, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

• On further thought I don't believe the Olivier diffs are actionable - I do think as Rich notes above that there is significant "poking" going on here and frankly I'm more concerned about that than I am about this 3 non-issues. Just because a user is subject to an ArbCom ban does not give others licence to goad them. Again I'd like to see other sysops commenting but my inclination is to close without action--Cailil 10:36, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

• SchroCat: WP:ARE is not a debate. You and Ian Rose made remarks about an article's "Main editors" as an appeal to authority and as a means of excluding Gerda Arendt's point of view on the infoboxes. Gerda Arendt's comments are about that conduct towards them not the boxes per se. Your remark to Gerda Arendt directly before the diff you suggest as their 3rd comment is quite inappropriate in the context of this enforcement request. You accused Gerda Arendt of WP:OWNERSHIP while being equally guilty of the same rhetoric yourself (which BTW looks to me like stewardship rather than ownership from both Ian and Gerda Arendt) and then want them punished for responding to that accusation. You also are crying out about a lack of AGF while failing to shouw it yourself, repeatedly here in this discussion. Now, I am quite happy to close this immediately with no action against Gerda Arendt and a WP:Boomerang for yourself and Francis Schonken if you want to keep digging.
  WRT emails - I suggest you submit evidence in private to an Arbitrator regarding those. Bandying about accusations of misconduct without hard evidence could be seen to fall under WP:ASPERSIONS. Furthermore I will advise you strongly that if your hands are equally unclean, i.e if those emails are about conduct rather than about inclusion/removal of infoboxes then you are ill advised to bring them up--Cailil 12:15, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

• I agree with you completely, Cailil. This looks like a vexatious request and, combined with the supervote closure, looks like an attempt to use AE as a weapon to eliminate an opponent. It's the sort of thing the used to happen a awful lot in the Israel-Palestine topic area until we started sanctioning people for it. It's also worth noting that ArbCom recently considered authorising discretionary sanctions on infobox disputes; the proposal didn't pass for various reasons, but most of the arbs seemed to agree that there was still disruptive behaviour going on in relation to infoboxes. Thus I endorse some sort of boomerang action against the filer. Procedural note: I've recused in previous infobox-related AE requests against Pigsonthewing due to an off-wiki friendship; this is the first request I've seen against another party and I do not believe I am involved with respect to Gerda or infoboxes generally. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:38, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
• I also don't see anything actionable here. We may have a diff or two that are open to interpretation in regard to their status as evidence of a topic ban violation, but we should err on the side of caution (i.e., good faith). I fully accept SchroCat's good faith in this matter, but it's clear that Francis Schonken, who has been in more than one disagreement with Gerda and has exhibited various types of battleground tendencies, saw an opportunity to peel a little apple, as the Dutch might say, with Gerda. This ought to be closed and slammed shut, and I am not opposed to at the least a stern warning for Francis Schonken. I'll do a disclaimer too: I don't care for infoboxes, and I know and have worked with every single editor in this thread, including Gerda, and a million other editors--plus, I have warned Francis Schonken for disruptive behavior in December of last year. FWIW. Drmies (talk) 14:59, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

• Right so, my proposed wording is: "Closed with no action against User:Gerda Arendt, but User:Francis Schonken is warned for making a vexatious filing at WP:AE about Gerda Arendt and given a final warning to refrain from further battleground behaviour in the topic area covered by the Infoxboxes RfAr ruling." If there are no substantive objections from other sysops then I'll close with this wording after 24 hours.

  Although I'm not proposing action here against SchroCat, frankly I am very disappointed in their conduct on this board clamouring for punishment of GA with such an obvious non-issue (and then raising 3 further non-issues). They would be well advised not to continue in this vein. That said if there have been inappropriate emails sent to them (and for various reasons we cannot be privy to them here on a public board) I fully endorse SchroCat having that kind of conduct reviewed in private--Cailil 21:31, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

• I'm rather concerned about the reading of the two-comment restriction adopted here. The restriction is meant to be a clear-cut, bright-line one, and I don't think fine parsing about whether a comment is going to a subsidiary issue or the main issue in a discussion is helpful. All three of the Olivier comments are related to the primary subject of the discussion - i.e. whether the article should have an infobox - and made in the course of that discussion. That should be more than enough to bring them inside the scope of the restriction. Now, I can see taking no enforcement action as the edits are somewhat stale, but I disagree with Cailil and think they are a violation of the restriction. T. Canens (talk) 04:22, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

• Hi Timotheus Canens, I had a similar view of the Olivier comments on my first reading, but on reflection I did, and still do, think it's extremely problematic for SchroCat to goad GA into a third comment with an accusation of WP:OWNERSHIP and then cry "foul" - that's the definition of "unclean hands". And on balance I can't in good conscience ignore that. In this context would it be best to issue a reminder to GA that, as you put it their 2 comment restriction is "a clear-cut, bright-line" rule. And that further actions like those at the Olivier article will be sanctioned? However, if we do that IMHO we need to deal with SchroCat's action there too - again a reminder might be ok. Do you have any views on the boomerang against the filer?--Cailil 15:57, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

• That ping didn't go through. I'm fine with a reminder both ways (I agree that leaving that comment when you know the other side can't respond is poor form at best), and I'm also ok with the boomerang. T. Canens (talk) 17:53, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks T. Canens that's good and clear. My proposed wording is "User:Gerda Arendt is advised that their two comment limit, in discussions about Infoboxes, is a bright-line rule and that conduct like that exhibited at the Lawrence Olivier article's talk page is a breach of their restriction and will be sanctioned if repeated. User:SchroCat is reminded that anyone requesting enforcement who comes with unclean hands runs the risk of their request being sanctioned themselves. They are also advised that implying misconduct on the part of editors like User:Gerda Arendt who are restricted from replying/responding to such accusations may be seen as misconduct itself. User:Francis Schonken is warned for filing a vexatious request at WP:AE. They are also cautioned that further abuse of process or attempts to harass User:Gerda Arendt by User:Francis Schonken will incur sanctions." If there are no substantive objections from uninvolved sysops I'll close with this result at around 16:00 UTC on March 16th--Cailil 20:53, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Appeal to lift topic ban by Ashtul

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Ashtul

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Ashtul (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:23, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

ashtul (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 14:36, 7 March 2015 reverting to earlier version.
2. 14:38, 7 March 2015 added additional source with video interview with Drucker.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 11:17, 20 January 2015 - block for 1RR on Carmel (Israeli settlement).
2. 00:47, 28 January 2015 Topic request after an AE case I filled over Nishidani's POVPUSHING which admin saw as retaliation.
3. 19:42, 1 February 2015 - block over also adding info at Shavei Tzion, my grandparents town, about an IDF memorial and a grave of Acre Prison break fighters and on the relevant article (Nothing current or arguable but geographical locations).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

HJ Mitchell, have expressed concern about my ability to keep on editing in the I/P conflict area and thus topic banned me. This came as a result of a message I wrote on his talk page about a revert by Nomoskedasticity who without participating in a talk page conversation reverted my edit.

HJ Mitchell have suggested I will focus on proving I am capable of editing in this area so that is what I will do.

Quick background of the current content dispute - Raviv drucker, a reporter have wrote a tweet that lead to articles such as this this this and many more, which accused him of causing multihomicede and war-crime. About a week later, he published this article and a video interview.

• Haaretz article starts with the words "I apologize, Naftali, sorry, I was wrong" and ends with "There is no doubt - in 1996 you were there that night, in an important Israeli society. But Lieutenant Bennett, where the hell were you all night since you Israeli politics?"
• Nana article states "Drucker highlights that he has no complaints about Bennett as an officer, but only as to the function as a politician. "He was real brave Magellan officer, without cynicism," he says, "but very brave politician, although successful, and that's what is most disappointing. Every node which could tell us the truth, to speak out against things were risking their skin, is Always fear. ""
• The video interview says (my rough translation) "this was a tweet I didn't think about enough where I quote a veteran idf officer who spoke of Bennetts behavior that night. I didn't do a investigation or wrote an article" … "Bennett was probably a brave officer, for real, no cynicism, but he is not a brave politician, successful but not brave which is disappointing" and ends with a Question "would you have tweeted it again?" Answer "No. Or I would have tweeted it with other tweets which would explain what is my opinion and what is the information. I think it is irrelevant to leading position and even if Bennetts was stressed at that time and even if it caused a chain of mistakes it doesn't put on him a moral dent, it was a biographic. In that sense, for that tweet to stand by itself isn't right and not wise".

Other editors have claimed it is ostensible apology, irony, antiphrasis (Nishidani) or sarcasm (HJ Mitchell). They are confusing his current criticism over Bennett's behavior as a minister (in the midst of a heated election season) and accusing him of partiably being reposible for the death of over 100 people "radio call for support was "hysterical" and contributed to the outcome that ensued" as stated by the article. Maybe 'recanted' isn't the best word but doesn't WP:BLP require extra care? How many times a person (Drucker) need to say he made a mistake before his word is taken for it?

Among other conducts I have done lately to prevent WP:WARs, I have initiated an RfD (which concluded with consensus in a few days and effected tens of articles) and an RfC in which, so far, my opinion was supported by 3 editors (and 1 sock), describing the edit I contested as "rampant POV-pushing", "tangential POV laden picture does not belong in this article" and "does not belong in an encyclopedia".

An AE case was filed against me over a revert which was NOT contested and was edited back by mistake. Then, when admins weren't convinced (the case was open for over a week) it was turned over charging me with POVPUSHING over text that is supported by the source with the word 'coexist' not appearing in the original but rather 'a bridge between peoples' or 'this is a chance for Israelis and Palestinians to work together, to talk to one another, to trust one another'. If editors don't agree with one word, why remove the whole statemene? TWICE! (Same editors from Carmel article).

So to sum this up, I am engaging in conversation and actively trying to resolve things. I believe my edits are within the borders of NPOV as I try to use NPOV language. If I have failed before, it happens. It is defiantly not a system or even intentional. In the case of Bennett, it should be mention Drucker recanted/apologized/reexplained this original tweet. I believe HJ Mitchell have made an honest mistake with my topic ban and ask for it to be lifted.

References

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Barkan_Industrial_Park&diff=647612424&oldid=647585051
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Barkan_Industrial_Park&diff=647872466&oldid=647867328

(sorry for going beyond 500 words. There are many quotation included to save you some time).

Respond to admins

@T. Canens: HJ's topic ban was solely based on the Drucker dispute after he decided to sit out the case which I personally asked him to advise on. Would you please respond directly to that? Is Drucker in his voice saying he was wrong about the original accusations not REQUIRED to be mentioned in such WP:BLP info? Ashtul (talk) 10:19, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Ashtul

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Ashtul

MLK and Malik, you didn't read the links at the top which refers specifically to HJ Mitchell reasoning of the topic ban and where he suggest I may appeal it. About the AE case itself, HJ Mitchell wrote "I'm going to sit this one out" and then moved to close the case based on what I described above. Everything is in the links. Thanks for allowing me to highlight this point. Ashtul (talk) 07:12, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

HJ Mitchell topic ban in essence is over a content dispute where "the sarcasm in the apology that thread refers to is blindingly obvious" so "that I can quite comfortably comment on it as an admin". As I wrote and demonstrated here in length, HJ Mitchell is wrong. It happens.

If holding ground in case of being right, on topic that is clearly WP:BLP makes one unsuitable to edit on Misplaced Pages then by all means block me all together. Drucker in his voice on the video apologizes but somehow people fail to believe him. The fact he moves right away to attack Bennett's current politics doesn't mean he still think his actions had contributed the the death of 100 people. Ashtul (talk) 21:55, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Beyond My Ken

If I understand the history correctly, this was not a ban placed by HJ Mitchell as the action of an individual admin, it was placed by him as the result of an AE discussion among multiple admins. The ban had a provision for reconsideration after 6 months -- so why is this even being considered now, mere days after the ban was placed? It's clearly not timely. BMK (talk) 01:09, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Malik Shabazz

I agree with Beyond My Ken. This appeal should be declined on procedural grounds. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 02:52, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Callanecc

While I'm not technically involved (as I didn't impose the sanction) I'm going to take the careful route and comment here rather than in the result section. While discretionary sanctions are imposed by an individual not by consensus (which is why I could technically comment as uninvolved) I see no reason to overturn the sanction except to say that my reading of the discussion was for a TBAN which expires after six months not an indefinite one, but the sanction is up to the enforcing admin. I would decline the appeal and recommend that they consider appealing again after six months of active editing. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 02:10, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Cptnono

This comment is primarily based on the procedure. The banning administrator initially opted to sit this one out but saw drama on his talk page and pulled the trigger. I understand that Ashtul has not done great at showing an ounce of humility but the problem with his editing is almost all based on drama filled interactions with one other editor. Nish has had his fair share of issues in the past. Ashtul's topic bans were of much longer lengths than previously dealt out in the topic area. Unless there is a case for sockpuppetry (someone else mentioned it previously), the length was primarily out of admins being sick of the drama. I understand that but I also appreciate that Ashtul has brought up decent points before getting railroaded.

I also don't think Nish needs a reprimand or anything, but it would have been cool if he would have stepped back and taen a deep breath before disregarding Ashtul's points.

Just to be open, I'm actively considering opening up a case for community intervention against another editor who has skirted the policies and guidelines for years now. Although a 6 month topic ban would make me feel a little happy inside I know the project would be better if more novel and level-headed solutions were considered. This whole topic area is broken and it is primarily because a handful of editors who have been around for awhile know how to successfully push their POV, buck the system, and screw with people.Cptnono (talk) 05:24, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Ashtul

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I take a slightly different view from User:Callanecc here. User:HJ Mitchell can clarify for us, but it seems HJ offered User:Ashtul notice that he could appeal his actions imposing the topic ban or he could accept the topic ban and ask for it to be modified after six months. Otherwise, it seems to me, the topic ban stays in place indefinitely. So the request here seems to be an appeal against the imposition of the ban itself. Commenting narrowly on Ashtul and not on any other editor, I would keep the topic ban in place and reject the appeal. Come back after six months and we will revisit it. JodyB _talk 12:19, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Procedurally, I have no problem with this appeal. After six months of productive editing in another topic area, I would be happy to re-evaluate the topic ban, but that's not an appeal per se, and if Ashtul wants to contest the topic ban or the grounds for it, then appealing here is appropriate. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:01, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Given User:HJ Mitchell's comments I see no problem with this appeal. However this discussion followed by this discussion make it clear that the topic ban is appropriate. I would suggest the appellant speak with HJ Mitchell after the 6 month period. I'm happy for HJ Mitchell to continue to monitor this and approve or decline the topic ban at his discretion. JodyB _talk 11:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
• This appeal is malformed - it uses the request template, not the appeal template - but at this point there's not much point in changing it.

  I agree that the six-month time limit before reconsideration doesn't affect our ability to hear an appeal on whether the topic ban should have been imposed in the first place, but I think the topic ban was validly imposed, and I would decline the appeal. T. Canens (talk) 04:50, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

DHeyward

NorthBySouthBaranof

MarkBernstein

Cwobeel

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Cwobeel

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

ChrisGualtieri (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:36, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Cwobeel (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:NEWBLPBAN

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 03:43, 23 January 2015 Original insertion of an inaccurate, out of context, and less than half a sentence passing mention sourced to an organization with long standing disputes with Emerson.
2. 17:55, 23 January 2015 Adding: " One more source for good measure)" A tiny quip labeling him as an Islamophobe without any reason or evidence.
3. 4:27, 2 March 2015 Reinserting into lead after protection lapsed.
4. 16:31, 2 March 2015 Continuing after a month long protection to insert inappropriate material
5. 4 March 2015 Inserting the material again despite no consensus
6. Steven Emerson - Part 3 - A BLPN discussion is made and Cwobeel acknowledges WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE
7. 7 March 2015 Restoring the problematic material again during a BLPN dispute.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 12 December 2014 - Cwobeel was notified of the AC/DS for BLP.
2. 24 January 2015 He was blocked for violating the sanctions after I submitted a Arbitration Enforcement request when the user was restoring unsourced BLPs - and sourced them only to IMDb and arguing with an admin over whether or not it was appropriate.
3. 25 January 2015 A sanction was placed on "Awards and nominations" except for adding Reliable Sources - This sanction is not relevant here, but it was the end result of the previous AE about BLP.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This needs a bit of background. The source being used here is from organizations which Emerson has had legal battles with and has actually sued for defamation arising from said disputes. Cwobeel asserts that the sources are high-quality and reliable despite this. Biased sources exist, but accusations of bigotry are very serious and should not be sourced to less than a single sentence. Secondly, the only source which gives a "reason" is actually committing a very biased and judgmental attack on Emerson. Emerson has also highlighted that it is a partial quote being used. Within hours of the Oklahoma City Bombing, media, law enforcement and even the FBI raised concerns of Islamic terrorism. Emerson was not the origin, but merely one of numerous persons used by the media to further the Islamic Terrorism angle, he simply acknowledged the speculative and rampant rumor about six hours after the blast. Publications from the Wall Street Journal to the The New York Post ran stories with other experts (not Emerson) making clear the "middle east" terrorism links.

After the removal on March 4, the BLPN petered around a bit. Essentially the "gaff" is important and everyone agrees it needs to be in the article - but the "Islamophobe source" accusation is shown to be flawed and have no consensus to be included and Cwobeel re-added it anyways. Unfortunately this is not an isolated example because Cwobeel has also repeatedly edit warred to re-insert completely false material shown here removing an ACLU reference (containing the document) and replacing it with the erroneous and false claim saying it does not exist. I do not understand why Cwobeel does these things or has this attitude, but can the article also be placed on 1RR restriction since the 1 month protection failed to stop this?

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Cwobeel

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Nomoskedasticity

This AE filing is a gambit in a content dispute. It's fine for the OP to disagree with the proposed edit, but when several other editors dissent from the notion that it's a BLP violation it's very poor form to state that notion here as if it were an indisputable fact. The basis for the claim includes the idea that because Emerson sued a couple of scholars over the way he was characterised by them the scholars are therefore unusable as sources about him. That's a very strange idea, and again it does not enjoy consensus in discussions about this article. What that means is that "the 'Islamophobe source' accusation is shown to be flawed" is a matter of the OP's opinion. I really don't see how all of this adds up to a need for an immediate block, nor a block at all. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 14:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

HJ Mitchell, there's a context here that's worth knowing; I've just addressed your point via a post on BLPN; perhaps it's redundant to repeat it here. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 17:58, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by MrX

Isn't it standard practice to allow the accused to make a statement on their own behalf in Arbcom enforcement cases, especially when the case is opened in the middle of the night? I'm deeply concerned about the strained interpretation of WP:BLP being advanced here, on the basis of original research and without the consensus of the community. In my opinion, these types of blocks based on novel interpretation of policy have a potentially chilling effect on open editing of any BLPs and the potential for seriously affecting neutral POV by keeping any and all negative information out of articles if anyone objects. - MrX 17:05, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

@Atsme: The diffs you provided are not evidence of Cwobeel violating BLP. The first three are complaints from you and ChrisGualtieri. Specifically, in the first diff, ChrisGualtieri conflates source bias with reliability. The second diff is not evidence of wrongdoing by Cwobeel, or Coffeepusher for that matter. The third diff merely shows that ChrisGualtieri objects to this edit sourced to The Guardian or maybe it was this edit sourced to a WP:NEWSBLOG on the Washington Post by Adam Taylor who writes about foreign affairs for The Washington Post. This bold merge that you claim is tendentious editing, is neither tendentious nor a BLP violation, although it may have been WP:UNDUE. Callenecc protected the article because of edit warring/content dispute, and apparently because he thought there were BLP violations, contrary to finding at WP:BLP/N. We need to protect BLP's from real policy violations, and get out of this groupthink culture where editors can falsely claim BLP violations, and repeat it over and over until good editors start questioning their own judgement.- MrX 19:01, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Serialjoepsycho

I could only struggle to say that this is a bad call, because simply it's not. It is a good call. Very straight forward. With that said however I'm not sure this case calls for a straight forward call. This diff really seems in good faith. While I did suggest Cwobeel seek a formal closure,it does seem his view of the consensus is correct. Perhaps he should have waited longer before instituting the change. In this case a direct warning and pointing out the problematic behavior may very well suffice. The thing is the article was just locked down for a month. I'm not sure this does anything to target the disruption to the article, just perhaps Cwobeel's. I'd hate to see DS to be used as a replacement for consensus making and reviewing related conversations of the subject of Steven Emerson I question if that may be what is happening. I'd like to ask you to consider over turning this block and I would like to also ask that you consider Chris' request above to institute 1RR in the article if you haven't already.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 20:17, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Cwobeel

Given that this was unarchived to address HJ Mitchell's concern in which he states that I'm concerned that Cwobeel has a tendency to revert without discussion and to dismiss good-faith BLP concerns that he personally deems to be invalid rather than waiting for consensus on noticeboards and talk pages, here is my response:

• I have learned my lessons from previous sanctions, and striving to be more careful.
• In this specific instance I initiated a BLP/N discussion and waited for consensus to emerge before reinstating the material. As per other editors commenting here, I may not have been the best person to take that initiative, and I should have waited for someone else to perform that edit, but that was a mere technicality.
• The block was uncalled for if HJ Mitchell had taken some time to look at the context. There was no reason to assume that I would revert, because I did not. Other editors did that and for good reason as there was an established consensus to override WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE.
• We need a better process to deal with situations in which editors use BLPREQUESTRESTORE as a blunt instrument, as I believe it was the case here. I respected BLPREQUESTRESTORE, started a thread to solicit uninvolved editor's input at BLP/N, got consensus, and still the OP felt entitled to post an AE and waste an enormous amount of time.
• AE requests are serious matters, and there is an expectation that admins take some time to evaluate the situation before pulling the trigger, and assess the OPs arguments not just prima facie.

I hope to continue editing BLPs in my area of interest, and will strive to be extra careful when BLPREQUESTRESTORE is raised, using BLP/N and DR as necessary. - Cwobeel (talk) 16:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rhoark (uninvolved)

While it would have been preferable for Cwobeel to edit more patiently, the same is true of ChrisGualtieri. It takes two to edit war. This enforcement request looks above all like forum shopping and an attempt to sudo a content dispute when BLP/N looked to be leaning Cwobeel's way. BLP matters should be treated carefully of course, but when there's consensus that the burden of proof has been met for BLP restoration only little concession is due to an editor refusing to acknowledge that proof. The actual dispute seems to have more to do with due weight than BLP, concerning use of the word "Islamophobic". Having no prior knowledge of the article subject, I turned to Google. In the first three pages there was not one source that discussed Emerson in any context other than making false statements with the effect of inciting fear and anger against Muslims. Some used the word "Islamophobic" and some did not, but if that's not an accurate paraphrase I don't know what is. There are many more incidents than just Oklahoma City. I'm sure there's probably much more to the man, but Islamophobia seems to be his principal area of notability. Other paraphrasings are possible, but as a general matter it belongs in the lede. Given there was definitely disruption on the page, it was appropriate to provisionally block, but I'm glad it has been reversed and the matter is getting closer attention. It shouldn't have even taken an appeal to get a more skeptical view. I don't think any further remedy is necessary. Rhoark (talk) 18:16, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Gaijin42

CWobeel and I have interacted on a quite a few articles. Usually from completely opposite political perspectives. In some cases, I have had great frustration with his edits (the feeling is likely mutual). One case I can remember is him insisting on repeatedly removing Ted Cruz's well known Cuban identification. However, on the whole cwobeel is an editor that can be reasoned with and collaborated with.

We were largely on opposite sides of most debates in the Michael Brown article, and while debates there often got heated, the interactions were largely collaborative, and Cwobeel's participation was not a disruption, and helped to bring balance to the article (if by nothing else ensuring that those he disagreed with were using proper sources and accurately representing them). He made a particularly strong contribution with his addition of the shooting scene diagram, and was open to including lengthy rework and feedback at significant cost of his own time and effort, including multiple elements that largely disagreed with his POV (and which ultimately proved to be pivotal in the DOJ/City reports).

There are a great many editors of all stripes involved in editing controversial and heated topics. These topics by their nature are often more likely to have flareups of warring or issues. They are also areas where editors are likely to try and WP:GAME the system with ANI/E3 reports to gain an upper hand, which goes a long way to explain the number of blocks. If these incidents are relatively infrequent, the short term consequences of the relevant blocks seem to be sufficient punishment and deterrent.

I have no comment on this particular edit/incident as I am not involved, and do not know enough to comment.

I weigh in against any broad BLP ban, and if some intermediary sanction is required (1RR etc) I would suggest it should be of a limited timespan (a few months at the most)Gaijin42 (talk) 21:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Atsme

There is not much more I can add to what has already been stated. It appears Cwobeel is a little perplexed by the strict adherence portion of BLP policy which may explain his WP:DONTGETIT position after he was repeatedly advised of the problem. He does not appear to be either willing or able to understand BLP issues Perhaps even more concerning is the TE evidenced here: wherein he added minority opinions in such a way it created UNDUE. He also expanded the section about Emerson's organization, Investigative Project on Terrorism, in the biography knowing IPT has its own article. Callanecc finally PP the article until mid-May. Atsme☯ 20:38, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Cwobeel

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I've blocked Cwobeel for a fortnight to prevent the immediate disruption (which is the restoration of the material while it was being discussed at BLPN). Considering this is the second time in recent weeks that Cwobeel's conduct on BLPs as been in question at this board, I think we should consider much more rigorous sanctions, possibly even a long-term block. Note that this is Cwobeel's fifth block in less than a year, and BLP issues appear to be at the root of all of them. Cwobeel also has two logged warnings under NEWBLPBAN, and was banned by Sandstein in January from editing award lists. It seems that Cwobeel's compliance with BLP has been a long-term problem. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:39, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

  @Nomoskedasticity and MrX: et al, the block is not based on one interpretation of BLP versus another. I have no opinion on that. The issue is that once something is removed on a good-faith BLP objection it shouldn't be restored until the concerns are addressed or consensus determines them to be meritless. Edit-warring because you disagree with your opponent's interpretation of BLP is unacceptable, and doing so citing a discussion that is still open strikes me as disingenuous. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:53, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

• I've brought this back from the archive as it was never formally closed and I think wider issues with Cwobeel's conduct on BLPs bear examination. I note that Cwobeel has been blocked five times in the just under a year—twice under NEWBLPBAN, three times for edit-warring (of which two were on BLPs). I'm concerned that Cwobeel has a tendency to revert without discussion and to dismiss good-faith BLP concerns that he personally deems to be invalid rather than waiting for consensus on noticeboards and talk pages. I've unblocked Cwobeel, as the short-term block was only ever intended to deal with the immediate issue, but I think we should seriously consider some sort of revert restriction or similar (broad topic bans are a bit of a blunt instrument, and I don't think that sort of thing is warranted here). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:07, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

A Gounaris

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning A Gounaris

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:14, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

A Gounaris (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBMAC discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

• Persistent edit-warring against consensus of several other editors:
  • On Greece: (at least 4 instances of re-inserting "Balkans" in place of "SE Europe"); (rv of ); (rv of ); (rv of ); (rv of ); (rv of )
    (several of these are partial reverts, usually re-insertions of contentious material previously removed as irrelevant or tendentious by other editors, though sometimes slightly reworded. Similar behaviour is also seen on other articles.)
• Refusal to provide references for his insertions; edit-warring to remove {fact} maintenance tags
• Incivility, personal attacks, casting aspersions about other editors' alleged motivation:
  • (edit summary), (edit summary)
• Long-term previous history of similar aggressive attitude and incivility:
  • Update: His reaction to this report was this and this (plus yet another rv of yet another editor on the Greece article , plus the clumsy attempt at a retaliatory counter-report just below here) Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:33, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Further update: he is now at 3R over the removal of fact-tags at Languages of Greece (, ) and has engaged in yet more personal attacks in the form of spurious sockpuppet accusations (apparently all the different editors who have been reverting him are socks of mine: ). Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

(Arb notice from March 2013); also: (Macedonia 1RR warning); (standard 3RR warning)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning A Gounaris

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by A Gounaris

Statement by Dolescum

I'm not much one for the drama boards, but I'm supporting Fut Per here. I have repeatedly asked A Gounaris to provide evidence for their assertions as can be seen in the edit summaries here and here. My exhortations seem to be falling on deaf ears. Furthermore, this revert of yet another removal of their edits, in spite of the report here having already been made, seems to indicate a battleground mentality and no desire to work with the rest of the community. This needs to stop. Dolescum (talk) 18:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning A Gounaris

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I have looked at the references provided, and I am not impressed by the abilities of A Gounaris to edit collaboratively and to accept criticism in editing on topics related to Greece. The enforcement request they obened below to "mirror" this one is a good confirmation. On the other hand, they have an empty block log. A topic ban might be in order.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:59, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

• Agree with Ymblanter. Suggest the following result: "A Gounaris is topic banned for 6 months from all articles relating Greece, and the Balkans"--Cailil 21:10, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

• I would prefer an indef topic ban with appeals allowed every 6 months. Given some of those diffs, I'd like to see affirmative evidence of improvement before considering lifting the topic ban. T. Canens (talk) 21:21, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

• Since I have the Greece article on my watchlist I keep seeing new reverts and adventurous edits by User:A Gounaris. Usually these changes stay below the threshold of 3RR but these edits suggest that the editor doesn't feel the need for any support from others for their changes. People who are extremely confident that they are right and have strong non-mainstream personal opinions are usually not helpful on highly-visible articles such as Greece. The editor's talk page shows they have received numerous warnings. I would support User:Timotheus Canens' proposal for an indefinite topic ban from all articles related to Greece and the Balkans (which is essentially all of ARBMAC) with the possibility of review after six months. EdJohnston (talk) 22:19, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

• I have absolutely no problem with going indef in this situation and support T Canens's proposal--Cailil 12:51, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Future Perfect at Sunrise

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Thargor Orlando

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user

Thargor Orlando (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Thargor Orlando (talk) 18:36, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed

Thargor Orlando (talk · contribs) indefinitely topic banned from all edits and discussion regarding User:MarkBernstein and restricted from opening and noticeboard discussions or enforcement requests related to MarkBernstein without the permission of an uninvolved administrator.

Administrator imposing the sanction

Gamaliel (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

Statement by Thargor Orlando

Two quick housekeeping notes

1. Mentions of MarkBernstein in this scenario are for background purposes only, done so under the auspices of "exceptions to limited bans", specifically "appealing the ban" (which I do here and requires discussion of the topic ban to be appealed) and, to a lesser extent, "asking for necessary clarifications about the scope of the ban." This is not an implication of trying to enact any new disciplinary sanctions. I opted not to tag Mark in this proceeding in order to not make further implications on the matter, not to keep anyone in the dark, and any editor that thinks I made the wrong call here is free to tag him.
2. I assume this is the correct forum for this. If not, a point in the correct direction would be appreciated.

This topic ban was put in place for reasons that are not entirely clear, and certainly not supported by any available evidence. Gamaliel's only real citation comes from this diff, where he claims my assertions are "worse" than what was said, and that Bernstein does not have the opportunity to respond. This was the wrong call on a number of points.

First, Gamaliel takes issues with two quotes, both from this comment. The first quote is "It's further evidence that his contributions are a negative to the article space," which is based on Bernstein's block history, multiple topic bans in the area, and own comments, and seemed self-evident. The context is where Gamaliel's second quote comes from, ""Mark's own intentions in this clarification is to drag the drama he continually creates within the Gamergate space into the campus rape disputes," which was directly related to this clarification request, which discussed Bernstein being approached by an "activist" for a "Misplaced Pages initiative." Given Bernstein's history in the topic space, it seemed incredibly clear to me that this was a blatant attempt to push the boundaries of his existing topic ban (a topic ban initiated by User:Dreadstar that I had no involvement in requesting, I should add) in an area he has clearly shown disruption in.

Gamaliel, in his initial comment, believes we cannot "play nice with each other." This may be granted, although I don't see why we need to "play nice" with what I believe is clear disruption. Gamaliel's claim is that I made "much worse statements about those you are complaining about," but none of those worse statements were provided. Meanwhile, the person I am "complaining about" has, in the past months, implied that I was being "deploy, repeatedly went after me personally with untrue claims (), and so on. This disruption is long-standing, and my statements in support of my point of view regarding his status are based clearly in the history of the situation. Statements cannot occur in a vacuum, the history simply must be taken into account.

As an added problem, the language of the topic ban is overly broad, as Bernstein has injected himself into the conflict in the real world, being quoted multiple times on blogs and having his own words reposted in legitimate media. The spirit of the topic ban suggests that Gamaliel is simply tired of having to hear appeals toward Bernstein's behavior, the wording puts my editing in the article space in jeopardy if an administrator or tendentious editor opts to try to make hay of the situation.

The Gamergate sanctions are in place to reduce the disruption in the article space, not to keep editors from making good-faith and evidence-supported appeals for their use against disruptive editors. Perhaps if my complaints were about an editor without a block and topic ban history in the sanctioned space, there might be some merit to this to discuss. Instead, the route chosen implies that I have done something wrong, tarnishes my otherwise clean record, and does the opposite of the intention of the sanctions by keeping editors in good standing from being able to combat said disruption. The topic ban on me clearly needs to be overturned on its merits.

@Ched: the problem is that no behavior issues have been presented. Without any behavior issues to point to, there's nothing to show improvement on and nothing to address. There is no current guidance in place and no problems demonstrated, thus the immediate appeal. If you have specifics in mind, presenting those would be very helpful toward coming to a conclusion. Thargor Orlando (talk) 19:41, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@Ched:: Sure, it's "better" in that it's not a topic ban, but it still implies behavioral issues that have not been detailed, and assumes that I need to be restricted in that area without evidence. The issue is not the type of ban, but that the ban exists without cause at all. To clarify, an IBAN would at least eliminate the possibility of edits at an article being used against me simply because Bernstein is quoted in the media, but it doesn't address the broader issue. Thargor Orlando (talk) 20:53, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@Gamaliel: can you please detail the "five months" of "disparaging comments?" Preferably with diffs so we can move forward on this? You're correct that we have repeatedly, in the proper forums and the proper formats, requested administrative interventions due to his behavior. In a sense, any dispute resolution will be "disparaging," however, so this just seems to be a complaint about our valid concerns about how this particular situation has continued to be handled. Thargor Orlando (talk) 21:07, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@Gamaliel: my apologies for inadvertently misquoting you. What I'm trying to do is end the disruption, plain and simple. If we want to get down to brass tacks, if he were topic banned as I believe he should be, there would be no reason for me to continue to endorse enforcement requests (you'll note that I have never initiated one with him) because it would be done and over with. WP:BANEX allows him to defend himself, so it's not as if he can't address them, and there is no evidence you're providing that is showing that I'm trying to goad him or talking about him in areas that he cannot respond. In fact, I don't think I've raised anything that he's said or done specifically about me at all, nor am I sure he's actually addressed me in a problematic way since you lifted his block a month ago. The evidence just doesn't stack up in terms of what you believe I've done, which is why I'm not incredibly happy with being hit with the shrapnel as a result. Co-signing on an assertion that someone is continuing to be disruptive in exactly the way you have expressed that you want it to occur after they've assured the block-lifting admin they wouldn't be should not be a sanctionable offense. Thargor Orlando (talk) 21:49, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@HJ Mitchell: under what metric are you measuring "equal responsibility?" On one side, you have someone who has never been blocked, sanctioned, or topic banned in any area of the project. On the other, you have someone who has been topic banned and blocked numerous times for repeated disruption which included personal attacks against myself. Why am I responsible for the behavior of anyone else in this instance? "In the interests of the encyclopedia," we have options to deal with disruption. Topic banning people who are not disruptive are not it. Thargor Orlando (talk) 16:13, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Gamaliel

What benefit is it to the encyclopedia if these users are allowed to continue to make negative and potentially disparaging statements about Mark Bernstein?

If Mark Bernstein violates rules or sanctions, then they can report that to an administrator. This does not prevent them from seeking redress or reporting a violation, it merely prevents them from complaining about this particular user on the encyclopedia, as they have been doing for at least five months.

There are many editors and administrators on Misplaced Pages. They could simply leave this matter to one of them. This is something we regularly advise people to do on Misplaced Pages. Take the example of NorthBySouthBaranof elsewhere on this page. He is correct that something is wrong at the Lena Dunham article, but he should leave the matter for someone else to handle because his past behavior has proven disruptive in certain areas, just as the past interactions of these editors with Mark Bernstein have increased tensions and disrupted the atmosphere of collaborative editing. Gamaliel (talk) 20:57, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@Ched: That is correct, the ban does not prevent interactions between DHeyward and Orlando. I believe I clarified that in the messages on their respective talk pages and the sanctions log, but if either are ambiguous I will correct them. I chose a topic ban over an interaction ban because I did not want to inhibit article discussion, just personal remarks. I have no particular objection to changing it if others think it necessary. Gamaliel (talk) 21:03, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@Thargor Orlando: You have quoted me in a manner that changes the meaning of what I said. I did not say that the two of you have been insulting Mark Bernstein for five months. You have, however, been enthusiastic users of noticeboards and admin talk pages in an effort to get him sanctioned, and in the process said many things about him that were negative. Some of them were true, others were opinions that are valid, but may be interpreted negatively. During most of this, Mark Bernstein has been under a topic ban or other restriction which has prevented him from replying in kind, and any comment of his that is remotely like some of the things you have said about him gets another round of noticeboard reports about him, along with another opportunity for you to recapitulate your negative opinions about him. Rightly or wrongly, he perceives this as a series of attacks upon him, and has now resorted to filing retaliatory noticeboard complaints against the two of you. And then we do it all over again. This is the cycle that this sanction is attempting to stop. Gamaliel (talk) 21:23, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

@DHeyward: So prohibiting you from participating in endless noticeboard complaints "prolongs the drama" by forcing you to file a noticeboard complaint? Gamaliel (talk) 00:19, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by DHeyward

I, too, am maligned by the same topic ban by Gamaliel with not a single diff which I consider casting aspersions. Further, my contribution to this was that I brought MarkBernsteins comments to two uninvolved administrators. I did not characterize which statements were problematic but both admins sanctioned MarkBernstein for them including one topic ban. This is the remedy Gamaliel has proposed as the solution but when it led to the TBan of an editor he is sympathetic to, he seems to want to take it out on editors not involved in that. As can be seen, Gamaliel's remedy led to MarkBernstein filing an ARCA reuest, an ANI request, and two AE requests. Neither I nor Orlando have filed. In addition, another editor has filed an AE request against MarkBernstein. In response, MarkBernstein repeated the statements that led to his sanction. Gamaliel seems to be confused as to who is filing requests for enforcement. There is simply no basis for his sanction. In addition MarkBernstein was prohibited from filing AE requests per WP:BANEX. Gamaliel, being the first commenter and admin should have closed the AE request rather than stoking its flames. --DHeyward (talk) 18:58, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Ched Echoing Orlando. Gamaliel has implies it's a three way IBAN issue when really it's a single topic-banned editor (who is again at AE). Gamaliel put a lot of things in quotes without saying who and where they were said. In short, I did everything Gamaliel requested. There are no noticeboard complaints started by me over these issues. I took my concerns about a comment to two independent admins and both acted on it. Those administrative actions drove one editor to open multiple forum requests including ANI, ARCA, and two AE requests. In addition, another editor has brought an AE request against him and you can read his reply . None of this has anything to do with Orlando and me. I had already done everything Gamaliel thinks I should have done and if I didn't, he hasn't provided any diffs. I have no problem with an an on-your-honor agreement but logging it as if I have an interaction issue with anyone misconstrues everything that has occurred here. Certainly there is no conflict between Orlando and I which is implied in the sanction. It has no basis. If Gamaliel's intention was to avoid drama and conflict, he should withdraw his sanction that is not based in either process or fact and let it close. EdJohnston nailed the deficiencies in the request. MarkBernstein is already topic banned so creating a sanction that both Orlando and I will appeal is only dragging out the problem needlessly. --DHeyward (talk) 20:11, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Gamaliel I did that. How do you think MarkBernstein received a topic ban? It was by notifying two uninvolved admins. I've only responded to his AE charges that he brought to noticeboards. There are no noticeboard filings by me over this and there are no quotes you cited that he can't or didn't respond to. It seems rather an odd statement to say that my replies to MarkBernstein's noticeboard filings about me somehow have put him at a disadvantage. Where are imagining this happening? I've asked for diff's yet none are forthcoming. You made statements and put quotes around them but without attribution. EdJohnston is correct in his assessment. You should have ended the drama by closing his two WP:BANEX violating AE requests instead of feeding them. It is your sanction, without merit, that is dragging this out. Like I said, I have no intention of bringing MarkBernstein to boards and didn't so your solution is really in search of a problem. --DHeyward (talk) 21:11, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Gamaliel diffs or please stop casting aspersions. Posting notices on uninvolved admins pages that have invoked sanctions on MB is NOT any kind of abuse of process. Participating in discussions where we have been the targets of his comments about editors is NOT any kind of abuse of process. I am sorry that you are upset about MBs topic ban and believe it is one-sided but you need to take it up with Dreadstar, not punish his victims. Please explain what behavior you think would be stopped by this sanction? We will still ask admins to intervene if MarkBernstein is abusive. Uninvolved admins will still sanction him. Your insistence only prolongs the drama. If you read the comments of the other admins for both cases MarkBernstein filed, you seem the only one thinking sanctions are needed. Even in Orlando's, that was summarily closed because MarkBernstein is TBanned from even making AE complaints, you still called for sanctions when others correctly saw a process error as well as nothing to warrant a sanction. Please don't make this a full on drama appeal over a sanction that does nothing but tarnish reputations and extend drama. --DHeyward (talk) 00:00, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Gamaliel Diffs or stop casting aspersions. A groundless sanction that wouldn't have stopped a single thing you claim to be worried out will be appealed. You have made an accusation of wrongdoing and keep mentioning board participation. I only ask for diffs which you don't supply because they don't tell the story you've been selling.. We wouldn't be here or at any boards because of me and I request you remove the sanction. Close it with no sanctions and there is no more drama. It ended with Mark's TBan. The sanction is unnecessary and I take offense at being painted with your broad brush without so much as a diff showing how your remedy would have played out differently or what egregious error in civility I made. --DHeyward (talk) 00:30, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Here is the first request filed by MB. Note Gamaliel was the first admin to comment on how one-sided MB's TBan is and how his TBan should be dropped (or everyone is TBanned). Luckily cooler heads dismissed it. Moments later, MB files another AE based on comments I made in his first AE. The cooler heads did not join until later and advocated that Gamaliel at least provide a diff and also pointed out the complaint was a BANEX violation by MB. No such luck on the diff. --DHeyward (talk) 00:43, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

HJ_Mitchell, Ched The issue is this accusation of wrongdoing. In a few weeks, what exactly do you think would happen? "It won't happen again?" Exactly what will I not do to avoid this? I've been civil to MarkBernstein. There is no evidence of wrongdoing. There is no "Well both sides...." If there is, find a diff and post it. There is nothing. The fact is Gamaliel lifted his topic ban and he returned to edits that attacked other editors and I've patiently brought them to uninvolved admins. Harry, how many times have you warned MB? How many times did Dreadstar warn him? Show a diff where I should be sanctioned for doing something wrong, or even incivil. Nobody wants the toxic GamerGate atmosphere but it was re-inflicted on us when MB us unbanned and unblocked. It is now much better. Clear the sanction log because this is really just one editor violating every condition of his early release as well as the GG general sanctions. --DHeyward (talk) 18:07, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Why is a simple request like a diff so hard to comply with? Show me a diff where this sanction would have changed anything or show me a diff of wrongdoing? --DHeyward (talk) 18:07, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

HJ_Mitchell the only thing not normal is the kid glove treatment afforded MarkBernstein. There is no animosity between parties but there is a lot of animosity between MB and anyone that disagrees with him. He's made accusations of collusion offsite, constantly refers to other editors after multiple warnings, etc, etc. This is why he is now also topic banned. I wish I had as many warnings as MarkBernstein and we could close this as I think I am due about 5 more talk page warnings before a sanction is even contemplated (and the next one would be a "stern warning"). MB endorsed this sanction and mentioned he provided admins with information and that the admins have agreed to his conditions. None of that has been disclosed or offered to anyone else. Please disclose it so we can see how "not normal" this whole ordeal has been. --DHeyward (talk) 03:43, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rhoark

MarkBernstein brought two frivolous motions, that he didn't have standing to file, on the basis of two editors making factual statements about MB's ban history. I really don't see how anyone could derive "equal responsibility" from that. I get that admins are sick of the whole thing and want to make it go away, but just sanctioning any names that show up at enforcement will only encourage more people with an axe to grind to try their luck at enforcement roulette. Rhoark (talk) 19:33, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

PeterTheFourth is not uninvolved. Rhoark (talk) 01:54, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 3)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Thargor Orlando

Statement by PeterTheFourth

DHeyward requested (begged for) diffs where this remedy would have 'changed anything', so I've helpfully compiled a small list., this entire request, , somewhat thinly veiled, PeterTheFourth (talk) 01:12, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Only this one would have been prevented by the sanction. Everything else was to uninvolved admins which is allowed. --DHeyward (talk) 03:59, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

@Rhoark: I was of the impression that 'uninvolved' referred to editors who are not mentioned in the remedy. I'd be grateful to the editor who clarified and moved my statement if necessary. PeterTheFourth (talk) 02:04, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Starke Hathaway

Applying sanctions to two veteran editors without producing any evidence of wrongdoing on their part not only offends traditional notions of fair play and procedural and substantive justice, it also fails to demonstrate that (1) there is a problem with these editors' behavior and (2) that the imposed sanctions will do anything to cure this problem. Particularly where, as here, the imposing admin has toed the line of involvement in the topic area and has a non-negligible history of sympathetic involvement with the editor who requested action against these two editors, I do not think this was a proper exercise of admin authority. Besides, I count no fewer than four warnings issued to MarkBernstein about not commenting on other editors by four different admins before he was placed under any sanction this time around, despite having been unblocked under the explicit condition that he was to avoid personally-directed comments. Why should DHeyward and Thargor Orlando not be extended the same courtesy? -Starke Hathaway (talk) 21:16, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by Thargor Orlando

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• My suggestion is that everyone put down the shovels, stop digging, accept the current restrictions, and edit productively in areas where you're not restricted. Furthering this situation is more likely to lead to extended blocks than it is to any sort of "ok, go do what you want" result. It is typical that DR solutions begin with less harsh restrictions; but, if that fails then more drastic restrictions will be put in place to ensure a less disruptive atmosphere on the project. If after a period of time (months, not hours) there's evidence that proper behavior can be adhered to, perhaps discuss it with an admin. active in that particular area. In other words: I suggest you take your ball and go play in another yard - before we take the ball away all together. — Ched :  ?  19:37, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

question Would it help if the wording were changed from "WP:TBAN" to "WP:IBAN"? — Ched :  ?  20:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

note I don't believe that Gamaliel's solution is intended to mean that DHeyward and Orlando must not interact with each other, but rather "both" must avoid MB. I've seen no indication that there are any issues with DHeyward and Orlando interactions. — Ched :  ?  20:53, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

further notes FWIW, we are into the weekend now. With that in mind, I'm not going to rush to judgement here. Several points:

• I am not inclined to unilaterally vacate the findings of another admin. (logged here)
• There seem to be a variety of views in the above thread (here}, and an even wider view in the statements above that.
• It always amazes me when people get anywhere near topics that have resulted in things like Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate after such a difficult situation has been dealt with, although it shouldn't be surprising when terms like "collateral damage" and "shrapnel" are found in the aftermath.
• I don't think that under normal operating procedures that either Thargor Orlando or DHeyward would be facing anything beyond a "suggestion", and understand the "WTH did I do" attitude. Still, given the atmosphere surrounding "all things considered" mantra - I do agree it is best if both editors were separated from all things related to MarkBernstein.

With all that said, I'll think on things over the weekend, and hopefully find helpful input from other uninvolved folks here when I get back. — Ched :  ?  14:42, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

• Ched's comment pretty much hits the nail on the head. Under normal conditions, we wouldn't be thinking about sanctions like this, but nothing about gamergate has been normal thus far. Considering everything that's happened and the obvious bad blood between the parties—for which both sides bear equal responsibility—I think forcing them to keep their distance is in the best interests of the encyclopaedia, even if it's not strictly "fair" or "just". I recommend DH/TO and MB abide by the restriction even if they think it's unfair, and perhaps edit something else for a while, and if it becomes clear in a few weeks that things have settled down, we can look again. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:04, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Marcos12

HistoryofIran

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning HistoryofIran

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Parishan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 12:20, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

HistoryofIran (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

User:HistoryofIran for a long time has been displaying an aggressive belligerent approach to editing Misplaced Pages articles dealing with the history of Iran and the Caucasus which has also prompted him on several occasions to edit-war, as well as resort to incivility in relation to other users.

Despite being placed on 1RR and civility supervision back in October 2013, this user continues to edit in the exact same manner that has earned him this restriction.

1RR restriction violated at Paykar Khan Igirmi Durt: , (he claimed reverting vandalism, but later admitted on the talkpage that it was not vandalism), Atropatene: , .

Typical examples of violating WP:CIVILITY include him defining good-faith edits that he disagrees with as 'vandalism' and the contributors as 'vandals' who are out to 'annoy hard-working contributors such as ': , , , addressing users in a disrespectfully informal manner ('dude') , getting extremely personal instead of addressing issues raised due to his edit-warring , and making other kinds of patronising, condescending and offensive remarks in edit summaries: , , , . Interestingly, even the information supported by reliable sources such as Encyclopedia Iranica is not only removed, but referred to as 'vandalism' , accompanied with an inappropriate comment in the edit summary.

After being warned for incivility once , he persisted in making sarcastic references to the user's 'poor feelings' in every message he addressed to them for the duration of the discussion (even if the incilivity issue was not further addressed), to the point of turning it into the focal point of the entire discussion: , .

I would like admins to pay attention to the aggressive confrontational language that the user permits himself in a discussion: , , . One can see that the other user did a very good job remaining civil until the end, hence HistoryofIran's reaction along the lines of phrases such as 'facepalm', 'your broken English' and 'understood?' was completely unprovoked.

In violation of WP:OWN, he refers to articles as 'his own' and uses his experience editing Misplaced Pages as an argument in favour of his version: .

I also suggest that admins take note of the manner in which this user refers to fellow contributors and to his own role in bringing about Misplaced Pages at the very top of his talk page: . While I appreciate the efforts of those who genuinely try to contribute to improving the content of articles on Misplaced Pages, I do not believe that they should be blinded by glory at the site of many barnstars that other users award them and use their active participation in the project as an excuse to bring others down.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

The user was previously placed on 1RR restriction, supervised editing and civility supervision and is aware of that .

Keeping in mind that this user has been blocked eight times in the past two years (including three times in the past year after being placed on the aforementioned restrictions, most recently a few weeks ago) for a period between 24 and 72 hours, mainly for edit-warring, and vows to continue to 'revert a lot of stuff' in the future, I suggest an indefinite ban, as I consider this user's attitude unacceptable and unconstructive in improving the quality of Misplaced Pages articles, especially if he fails at the very first thing which makes a discussion productive: simple polite communication.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning HistoryofIran

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by HistoryofIran

I find it funny, you researched so much about me, yet you didn't research the results of what i said in articles such as the Malik-Shah page. That is called lying and which shows that you're really trying hard to have me blocked for no reason - me, a user who has contributed so much to this site (374 articles created, 35 templates created, 168 categories created, 35 portals created and manyyyyyyyy articles expanded. Not trying to use this as an excuse, but just letting you guys know), just because of.. well who knows? personal revenge/hatred? I don't know, I just find this kind of random that you're suddenly reporting me and not even doing it the right way. Anyway, about the whole Malik-Shah issue (and constantly accusing me of being heavily rude when it comes to discussing), here is what it resulted to: . With that "problem" hopefully fixed, let's move to the next one. "One can see that the other user did a very good job remaining civil until the end, hence HistoryofIran's reaction along the lines of phrases such as 'facepalm', 'your broken English' and 'understood?' was completely unprovoked." Seriously? if a admin is reading this, please take a look on the links and a look on the Malik-Shah article, because what I am reading is not true and I'm sure you will understand. He is making me look like the villain, which he is doing this whole report, which I will get to.

By the way, If you are going to report about such things, then show all of it instead of half of it.

About the Paykar Khan Igirmi Durt article: I find it funny, he mentioned that I claimed vandalism (which I apologized for - because I am (well, I was) constantly reverting vandalism I wrongly accused him of being one, which was completely stupid by me) yet he accused me of "bad-faith editing" and still haven't apologized for it. Isn't that double standards? Anyway, I don't get why he mentioned that, since that issue ended when he showed me sources which proved that he was right (which he didn't first time but just randomly slammed some information on it, or else I would never have reverted it in the first place). Furthermore, how is "dude" a negative word? It is a normal word used every day? (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dude) I find it funny that he is trying to make a deal out every word I use. It seems like "dude" is bad a word, but accusing one of "bad-faith editing" and abusing old issues without showing what really happened is normal. Furthermore, while we were discussing in the talk page of the article, I kept telling you to stop turning this into, well, a "personal discussion" (if that makes sense), yet you continued, which I don't know why, what have I done? I apologized (while you didn't) and agreed with what you said when you finally showed me sources in the end (which you should have done in the start).

"Interestingly, even the information supported by reliable sources such as Encyclopedia Iranica is not only removed, but referred to as 'vandalism' , accompanied with an inappropriate comment in the edit summary." Great, once again you're not showing everything. Yes, the source states that the Safavids were Azeris, but does not mention their ancestors were Azeris, which the user wrote on the article (which means that he was falsifying information), which was the reason I reverted it. As I said, you're not using this kind of information right and are trying to use it against my favor by doing so. I don't get what you're trying to gain: you're trying to block a user who is barely active (and may be quitting because he is busy) and has done so much on this site by falsifying (not really falsifying (or maybe it is?), but I can't really think of a better word that fits better, I should go to bed) information about him?

"Keeping in mind that this user has been blocked eight times in the past two years (including three times in the past year after being placed on the aforementioned restrictions, most recently a few weeks ago) for a period between 24 and 72 hours, mainly for edit-warring, and vows to continue to 'revert a lot of stuff' in the future, I suggest an indefinite ban, as I consider this user's attitude unacceptable and unconstructive in improving the quality of Misplaced Pages articles, especially if he fails at the very first thing which makes a discussion productive: simple polite communication."

Yes, and you have been blocked 4 times? so what? so you should get blocked for not telling everything about the stuff which you brought up? "Simple polite communication"?, as I said before, you were the one who wanted to create a big and unnecessary issue in the Paykar Khan article, while I kept telling that we should focus on the subject, which you kept getting away from. "After being warned for incivility once , he persisted in making sarcastic references to the user's 'poor feelings' in every message he addressed to them for the duration of the discussion (even if the incivility issue was not further addressed), to the point of turning it into the focal point of the entire discussion: , ." Not really, as I said, I was trying to the discuss with you about the subject, yet you kept targeting words such as "dude" and kept trying to change the subject by trying to turn it into a hostile discussion, which I kept telling you that you shouldn't do and that you should focus on the subject instead. You aren't using this information neutrally, but using it all against my favor by changing what happened to make me look like the villain. About the "poor feelings" thing, as I said, you kept targeting my words and acting oversensitive yet you yourself accused me of something too, but unlike me you didn't apologize.

This is what annoys me the most: "and vows to continue to 'revert a lot of stuff"'. I didn't really say that - you're missing the details once again and are trying to change information to use it against my favor. What I said was "When I get back I will probably have to revert a lot of stuff since these annoying vandals appear on the articles i have created/expanded literally every day." What problem is there with that? It's not like i will go, in your own words, on a "bad faith editing" campaign, but remove edits such as this one removed by a well known user . There are actually many respected users who agrees with me in these cases, take a look here for example . Many people know that I help/expand (well, actually "helped" since I am not really active anymore) many Misplaced Pages articles, and not one who does "bad faith editing". Anyway, even if it said that i wanted to go on a "bad faith editing" campaign (which I would never do, of course), that wouldn't mean anything either since words means nothing compared to real action.

"and making other kinds of patronising, condescending and offensive remarks in edit summaries: , , ,". Once again, you're not posting all of it. The first in the first link is a person who usually copies information from various places and then copies it to a article, making much of the information having broken English. The second one was just one of the 100th random users who put unsourced information, which is constantly reverted by me and other users, which annoyed me, but I guess saying "omg" (oh my god) when a article is constantly the target of vandalism is wrong, just like using the word "dude" was in your opinion somehow wrong. About the third one: He is the same person mentioned in the first link, where I said that he usually copies information from various places and then copies it to a article, making much of the information having broken English. Which is against the rules, which means I didn't do anything wrong.--HistoryofIran (talk) 01:25, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I really think you're missing something then, in case you didn't see it, I have answered everything he has written about and pretty much proved him wrong. "Who's of much use to the encyclopedia regardless of topic."? I have done so much for this site (which I posted above) yet I am not to any use? Can a admin properly investigate this please? --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:11, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

moved here from wrong section by Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:30, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rhoark (uninvolved)

My gestalt impression of HistoryOfIran is someone unable to deal with content disputes in a constructive manner. Two elements of their statement however have merit. Firstly, the word "dude" is innocuous. Secondly, @Ahendra: is indeed introducing large amounts of grammatical gobbledygook to article space. An administrator should probably evaluate whether there is a competence problem. It's possible HistoryOfIran could learn better dispute resolution in an area they are less passionate about, so I endorse a topic ban. Rhoark (talk) 02:36, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning HistoryofIran

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any reason not to indef HistoryofIran and be done with it. I'd be all right with an indefinite topic ban from the AA topic area on top of that, but it seems like this isn't an editor who's of much use to the encyclopedia regardless of topic. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 07:26, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Supreme Deliciousness

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Supreme Deliciousness

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Cptnono (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:18, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Supreme Deliciousness (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBPIA - specifically the neutral point of view reminder (4)

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

SupremeDeliciousness has a history of highlighting the occupation throughout Misplaced Pages while doing little else for the project. I understand that we need to assume good faith and that being a single purpose account is not inherently a bad thing. However, he has shown that his bias negatively affects the topic area.

The editor's clear agenda and tendency to edit war are more nuanced than usually seen at AE. I had a hard time thinking of how to "prove" this and decided to look at every 50th edit (just selected next page in the history screen) the other day. It was surprising how many were reverts. Many edits are factually accurate but I hope this shows that there might be an attempt to put undue focus on the occupation:

• Reverting (an IP) to highlight the occupation
• Reverting (an IP) regarding the terminology of occupied land
• Reverting to highlight the disputed status
• Reverting (an IP) to highlight the disputed status
• Highlighting the occupation
• Reverting to highlight the disputed land
• Reverting (a IP) about Israel
• Highlighting the occupation. It doesn't neccasarily smack of POV pushing but it is part of the sample size
• Reverting to limit the visibility of Hebrew on a food article (a surprisingly common form of POV pushing in the topic area)

The above is not indicative of a problematic editor on its own. Below I attempt to show that SupremeDeliciousess has an over reliance on the revert function. It takes two to tango, of course. I also understand that it can be hard to not revert IPs in the topic area and how easy it is to assume every red named editor is a sock.

• 2014 kidnapping and murder of Israeli teenagers, 4 reverts since March 1 inserting "occupied". No talk page use.

• Open University of Israel, 5 reverts since February 24 regarding a conviction. Other party later turned out to be a sock but hindsight isn't an excuse.

• Northern District (Israel), 7 reverts since January 29 regarding legality of Israel's control. Again, what would eventually turn out to be a sock, but there is still a ridiculous amount of reverts with little initial conversation besides edit summaries.

• Israeli cuisine, 3 reverts in 9 days in February regarding Israeli adoption of Arab cuisine. Possible sock? Talk page could have still been used more.

For the sake of transparency and to show more possible POV-pushing the following is a current dispute I am involved in.

• A controversy section that I feel promotes undue weight of a minor incident at Tourism of Israel (not neccasarily a politically based page) was added. His first reaction was to revert removal. It is now tagged and being discussed.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Notified
• Additional notification regarding edit warring
• Multiple blocks for edit warring

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

These issues have been going on for years and this is simply a snapshot of recent behavior. SupremeDeliciousness has always made sure not to cross the line too far, which I suppose is a good thing. My frustration leads me to want to request a topic ban but I don't know if that is even appropriate. I believe the editor needs to be counseled by a level headed admin and that a prohibition on reverts should be considered.

I kind of expected blow back and a lengthy discussion but was really hoping it would just be cool. Yes, I have filthy disgusting hands. Yes, SD refuses to even consider that the editing has been an issue. We don't need multiple editors attacking or defending this like sharks. The gus is pushing a POV. ANI is not the appropriate venue to ask for help. Can we just get some level-headed peeps to point him in a better direction. Basically: don't comment unless you want to discuss making the topic area better.Cptnono (talk) 04:13, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Supreme Deliciousness

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Supreme Deliciousness

Please take a closer look at the diffs Cptnono has provided above:

• , The West bank is occupied so there is nothing wrong with calling it that.
• , an IP showed up and claimed that the Ariel University in the West bank is in Israel. I reverted this false edit..... why is this being brought up in an enforcement against me?
• , same as above, East Jerusalem is by the entire international community rejected as Israel, so my edit is 100% accurate.
• , an IP showed up and changed a sentence to "in the Israeli Golan Heights.", There is no such thing. Israeli claims are rejected by the international community. My edit is 100% accurate.
• , the text is about Hezbollah attacking an IDF unit. I believe it is important to point out to the reader that it happened on occupied lands and not in Israel.
• . 100% accurate edit. Temple mount is not in Israel.
• . An IP showed up and reverted me with the edit summary: "Reverted racist vandal Supreme Deliciousness. Supreme Deliciousness wrote anti-Semitic propaganda at User_talk:Supreme_Deliciousness/Archives/2014/October#Birthright_Unplugged claiming that Jewish history is fake." This IP was later blocked by admin.. As his revert was illegitimate, I undid his revert. I also discussed at the talkpage:.
• . The map is now changed but it used to show the Golan as striped brown. So thats why I did that edit.
• . Arak is an Arabic language name. It is not a Hebrew name. Therefore the Hebrew translation is unrelated and does not belong in the lead, the same why we dont have Chinese or Russian translation for Arak. I have brought this up at the talkpage:

Concerning the reverts I have done. All of them or the vast majority of them are me reverting disruption by the sockupuppet "I invented "it's not you, it's me", who is a sock of NoCal100.: , Or me reverting other IPs and newly registered accounts (likely other socks), who show up to revert me without any discussion at all. Its hard to edit in this kind of environment. At Open University of Israel, Northern District (Israel) (both articles where the sock was reverting me) and Israeli cuisine I also participated at the talkpages., , .

I would also like to point out that Cptnono comes here with unclean hands, take a look at this: Cptnono make a revert with the edit summary: "Since SD did not answer my reasoning and then another editor made m point for me I am reverting. I likely would not have reverted if it didn't turn into an edit war. I want to play too"

--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:43, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Greyshark09

The problem with Supreme Deliciousness is that it is a single topic account: Supreme's only interest is ARBPIA topics (and to a lesser degree SCWGS) - most notably the status of various borders and territories disputed by Syria and Palestine with Israel. His emotional attachment to the topic forces him to go to extremes in his "righteous" fight against the other opinion... which is the typical danger sign of Misplaced Pages:Wikipediholic. This might have not been a problem in some cases, but Supreme has repeatedly caused mayhem in English Misplaced Pages and in Commons, being blocked on Commons and on English wiki and warned every now and then. There might be a serious problem of accepting community consensus and NPOV concepts by Supreme, as I can recall two cases of problematic edit-warring on his behalf - one on Quneitra Governorate article, aiming to enforce an opinion in contrary to the community consensus, and another on Syrian Civil War maps - as well blatantly going against the consensus a number of times (later fixed at this discussion).GreyShark (dibra) 21:24, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

What community consensus and NPOV concepts have I not accepted? I never violated this consensus that was closed by an admin:. And the last link you linked to is not a consensus, it was a heavily involved editor who was editing articles according to the same pov as you who closed the discussion. So his "closure" is not a real closure and his claims of a "consensus" is a joke. Any uninvolved editor who reads the discussion can clearly see that his "closure" comments is not the real outcome of the discussion. I was just made aware of this actually and I have left a new message at the talkpage:--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:23, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Update: Just a couple of minutes after I posted at the ISIL talkpage that the discussion closure by heavily involved user:Legacypac was inaccurate, another user agreed with me: , (Please read his comment). This is the so called "community consensus" that "I have not accepted" according to Greyshark. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 00:21, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by IRISZOOM

There is a big problem when it comes to Israeli-occupied territories as some wants to put it "in Israel", though the world rejects that view (even Israel too when it comes to the West Bank excluding East Jerusalem) and view it as occupied. There is a clear consensus on this, also reflected on Misplaced Pages, and it's only good to remove such NPOV violations. As the world think the Palestinian territories and the Golan Heights are occupied territories, saying they are "Israeli" or "in Israel" is unacceptable. I myself, and many other editors in this area, often have to remove such things, and this can't be seen as something negative.

Regarding Greyshark09's point about the Golan Heights issue, it was actually only the RFC at Talk:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant/Archive 26 (started in December 2014 and closed in January 2015) which solved the issue if the Golan Heights should be mentioned. As can be seen at Talk:Syrian Civil War/Israel#Adding Israel as belligerent on Syrian Civil War maps, a new discussion was started there in August 2014 because it wasn't clear on how to resolve the issue as it, contrary to the claim, hadn't been solved. I can recall Greyshark09 himself making changes to that same issue on his own, such as changing to "Disputed areas" here (in fact, it takes the Israeli view that the areas are only disputed and not occupied, while there later was a consensus to not mention the area at all), though there were no consensus for that. So I think Greyshark09 should be cautious to criticize Supreme Deliciousness on this issue. --IRISZOOM (talk) 23:51, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Actually the discussion closed in January 2015 did not solve anything. Please see my posts above. It was a heavily involved editor (user:Legacypac) who closed the discussion, and he closed it according to a false "consensus" that anyone who reads the discussion can clearly see does not exist. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 02:13, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Zero0000

(involved administrator) I did not review all of the diffs provided here, but I looked at many of them and it is clear what is going on. The Israel-Palestine part of Misplaced Pages is under continuous assault by people (usually IPs or SPAs) who just want to insert their political positions. Common themes are to insert "in Israel" into articles about places not in Israel (including places that Israel does not claim to be in Israel), to remove mention of the military occupation, or to gratuitously remove the word "Palestine". Every day there are multiple such edits, and the people who do it obviously know exactly what they are doing. The principles have been discussed countless times in talk pages and project pages and anyone who wants to reopen the discussion is able to do so. Meanwhile, one of the boring daily chores required for article maintenance is to sweep away the dross that appeared overnight. It is certain not beholden on good editors to start a new discussion every time someone comes past and makes the same old unacceptable edits over again. Zero 01:19, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rhoark (uninvolved)

Edits related to the control or status of territories are a recurring theme, but Deliciousness' versions seem to be those with better sourcing or specificity, not reflective of a pattern of POV pushing. Being a SPA is not a problem; someone has to do the work. I'd semiprotect the whole topic area. Rhoark (talk) 02:58, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Result concerning Supreme Deliciousness

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

MarkBernstein (2)

Request concerning MarkBernstein

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Starke Hathaway (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:52, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

MarkBernstein (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate (discretionary sanctions):

Dreadstar: "Due to your continued comments about other editors , I'm imposing upon you a 90-day ban on all edits about, and all pages related to, (a) GamerGate, (b) any gender-related dispute or controversy, (c) people associated with (a) or (b), all broadly construed per Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate."

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 15 March MarkBernstein links to an article on his personal blog. The article contains discussion of gamergate. His comment regarding "Sea Lions of Misplaced Pages" also refers to the gamergate controversy.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 3 Jan Block for prior violation

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

It seems clear by now that this editor has no intention of abiding by this topic ban. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 22:53, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

It's not at all clear to me why MarkBernstein expects to be given latitude to violate his topic ban on a talk page when DungeonSiegeAddict510 (who is subject to the same topic ban as MarkBernstein) was blocked for a month for little more than writing the letters "kia" on a talk page. It's not as though MarkBernstein would be unaware of this as he commented in support of that very enforcement action. I would also respectfully suggest to MarkBernstein that the "hounding" will stop when he stops violating his topic ban.

I am very aware that I face the possibility of retaliatory sanctions for bringing this action, especially in light of the difference in the level of scrutiny applied to editors who bring actions here depending on whether they seem to fall on one side or the other of a particular controversy-- compare the treatment of EncyclopediaBob, who was indefinitely blocked for being a sock after bringing an enforcement action against NorthBySouthBaranof despite no one at any point adducing evidence of such, with the absolute lack of any scrutiny of PetertheFourth, a self-admitted SPA, when he brought the aforementioned enforcement action against DungeonSiegeAddict510. It is becoming increasingly evident that the rules are not being applied evenly to those who are perceived to be pro- or anti-gamergate, but I'll risk not being able to edit any longer on the possibility that this isn't in fact true. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 00:30, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning MarkBernstein

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by MarkBernstein

An editor left a pointer on my talk page to a satirical piece he had written read, concerning this very page.I complimented him and pointed him to something I'd written on the same topic. It’s an essentially social interactionm and considerable latitude is allowed and necessary on talk pages.

The topic of my piece, incidentally, is not Gamergate, but Misplaced Pages's Arbitration Committee and it's recent ruling on my own Arbitration Committee Request for Clarification. I think it not unreasonable that PeterTheFourth, who has been editing Misplaced Pages since December, would assume that he might mention my own ARCA request on my talk page. Why not, if it's a topic of mutual interest, and where else shall he mention it? Of course, Starke Hathaway knows better from his vast experience of editing Misplaced Pages since...December. But Starke has one advantage: his first Misplaced Pages edit outside his own talk page was a statement for ArbCom.

Ought I to have replied to PeterTheFourth by email? Perhaps. But Misplaced Pages policy encourages discussion of Misplaced Pages editing on wiki, and generally discourages such discussion off-wiki. Besides, we don’t all have 4chan, 8chan, KotakuInAction, and WikiInAction to use for our discussions!

Wikipedians might also give some thought to how this unremittingly vindictive hounding looks out there, out in the real world. So, please take your time with the WP:BOOMerang here, because it'll reinforce my argument so effectively.

Have I been critical of ArbCom and of Misplaced Pages? Yes, I surely have. Have I laughed at Misplaced Pages's follies? Sure: someone has to! And once you see how funny this is, Starke is quite correct: it’s hard to stop. Still, WP:MOMHESLOOKINGATMEFUNNY is not a thing.@PeterTheFourth: MarkBernstein (talk) 23:25, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

@EvergreenFir: I believe Misplaced Pages links are nofollow to deter spamming, so they're hard to see in my logs. And, if traffic statistics for my Misplaced Pages talk page itself is available to me, I have no idea how to find it. But, seriously, Misplaced Pages traffic is inconsequential at this point. This little satire has already been retweeted by 34 writers; they have among them 209,000 followers. We've had plenty of people dropping by from Facebook. I've got my little regular audience, which has its own sort of influence. And this is for a little light Sunday satire. I don't care about Misplaced Pages traffic. It's called making a point. There’s another name for what it’s called: “winning.” Give it a rest. I have explained why I link: unlike Gamergate, I don’t whisper about my opponents behind their back, I don’t pretend to believe they're gay or practitioners of strange sex rituals, I don't call them prostitutes or send them pictures of dead dogs or of their dead sisters. If I have something to say about you, I'll say it to your face and I'll show you the link, and I'll accept your rebukes. MarkBernstein (talk) 03:34, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

@TheRedPenOfDoom: I’m sorry to disagree with you here, but you're mistaken in calling the calling the decision “insipid.” Give ArbCom credit: the clarification was not bland, and adding Lena Dunham was about as spicy as you can ask. You couldn't make this stuff up. MarkBernstein (talk) 03:34, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

@Rhoark: I agree with the general sentiment, but you're wrong in detail. I cannot be a valuable contributor, in light of an inexplicable and absurd topic ban which extends as far as the eye can see -- to every living woman (except maybe to right-wing extremists), to every gay, lesbian, and gender-queer person, and to every topic the tea party declares to be a controversy and which somehow impinges gender, which is to say the human condition, broadly construed. But, in point of fact, I'd wager that my writing of the past eight weeks will do more to shape the Encyclopedia than my work of the previous two decades, broadly construed -- and that work arguably includes those tabs at the top of this page and the breadcrumbs that guide you to its antecedents. MarkBernstein (talk) 03:34, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

@Gamaliel: Wise, prudent, and judicious. I do think, though, that encouraging off-site coordination is still disparaged by policy, that in theory (if not in the real world into which I am accused of having injected myself upstream on the page) we're encouraged to discuss Misplaced Pages here and openly, not elsewhere and in secret. Correct me if I'm mistaken -- and also correct the guidance we give to new editors, some of whom might (on rare occasions like this) actually be genuine new editors. Grizzled experts like NBSF and myself find these matters puzzling, while outsiders look on aghast and wonder what Misplaced Pages can possibly be thinking. In fact, I'm pretty sure the banned veteran editors who don’t find the margins of discretionary sanctions puzzling fall into two categories: (a) those who are now editing through new accounts, borrowed accounts, or sock puppets, and (b) those who have retired completely. MarkBernstein (talk) 03:34, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Johnuniq

My suggestion would be that Starke Hathaway (150 edits; half on Gamergate) focus on improving the encyclopedia rather than examining every comment at MarkBernstein's talk. Such activity is not healthy for the project. Johnuniq (talk) 00:23, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by PeterTheFourth

I do not at all understand how the reply to my (unsolicited, entirely spontaneous) comment is a violation of anything, especially given that he hasn't even mentioned Gamergate in his reply. This is honestly just more evidence of the ongoing harassment of MarkBernstein. I feel atrocious in my unintentional involvement in the ongoing campaign to drive away a well-spoken, prolific editor whose contributions have greatly enriched Misplaced Pages. PeterTheFourth (talk) 00:47, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

As a completely unrelated aside: I did not author the piece I linked, although I do endorse it. PeterTheFourth (talk) 01:30, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Bosstopher

Agree with Gamaliel that minor borderline banvios like this one, YellowSandal's and DSA's, are not worth banning anyone over. All this request will do is cause more drama. Is there some way we can set a 1RResque limit to things of one AE request against Mark a week? There are approximately 10 billion admins watching his talk page, so if he does anything too horrific after the week's AE request is done, one of them can just sort it out without an enforcement request. Currently a huge proportion of this enforcement page is Mark-related, and all it's done is create layer upon layer of pointless drama. Bosstopher (talk) 01:19, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Rhoark

I think it would be great if MB would go back to being the valuable contributor of a few years ago instead of a SPA in the area of grousing about ARBCOM, but this filing is a waste of everyone's time. Rhoark (talk) 01:39, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by EvergreenFir

I am getting a bit weary of seeing Mark's name here. This isn't a huge violation, but Mark knows full well the terms of his tban and continues to link to his blog anyway. If this doesn't result in a block, this should be a final warning. Mark needs to stop linking his blog (generating traffic and views) and needs to stop all references to GG. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 01:41, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom

Simply more evidence of the ArbCom's disastrous miscalculation that their insipid decision was something that would in any way limit disruption of Misplaced Pages rather than provide a blueprint for sustained organized disruption.

Gamergate Ahoy! Keep them socks coming! -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 01:57, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Do we need to open another ARCA to see if by "broadly construed" ArbCom merely meant all Pinnipeds, or if they are inclined to include all ocean bound mammals? -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 04:13, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Strongjam

Can we speedily close this and just get on with working on the encyclopedia? The linked to diff isn't worth this much drama. Starke Hathaway is simply mistaken in their believe that DSA510 was held to a higher standard. He obliquely violated his topic ban here, more directly here, and I think by accident here. None of that was deemed disruptive enough and nobody bothered to file an AE request. If Starke Hathaway thinks MarkBernstein is being held to a lower standard they are simply mistaken. Strongjam (talk) 02:33, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning MarkBernstein

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Topic bans are supposed to prevent disruption, not create drama through hyperscrutiny and a resulting flood of complaints. Let me give you an example: Two days ago, YellowSandals violated his topic ban here. None of you editors constantly complaining about MarkBernstein made a peep about it, and obviously some of you saw it. I ignored it just like you did, and that's what you should also do here. (For the record, I felt the same about DungeonSiegeAddict510 and advised only a trouting in that case.) If your aim is to edit an encyclopedia, you are welcome here. If your aim to be the Gamergate police cracking down on the SJWs, you are not. Mark Bernstein is officially trouted - if there is such a thing - and advised to keep such chats off wiki whenever possible. Gamaliel (talk) 00:33, 16 March 2015 (UTC)