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Revision as of 23:16, 28 May 2013 editJytdog (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers187,951 edits →Number of attendees← Previous edit Revision as of 01:34, 29 May 2013 edit undoEl duderino (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,219 edits →lead/intro needs clarification: new sectionNext edit →
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::::::No, I still don't know how many people attended -- no secondary source has reported a global estimate that appears to be based on their own work. As I have found 2ndary found sources for local rallies I have added them along with attendance reported by those 2ndary sources. (''I have added them! I am trying to be helpful.'') That is all I know. CNN took the 3 numbers (total attendance, cities, and countries) that the organizers have been repeating and reported them in its own voice, without attributing them to the organizers. So, you now have a secondary source that has reported the 2M number in its own voice. Under policy you can use it, and under policy nobody can revert you, as far as I know. That is what I am saying. I am also saying that CNN did bad journalism, since they didn't attribute the numbers but reported them as fact. But they did it. I think it is reasonable for the article to state, "According to organizers, 2M attended" as the article said at some point earlier today. I think it is bad for Misplaced Pages to state the 2M attendees as a fact until we have a secondary source that is actually reporting and not just repeating unattributed statements from the organizers. But now you can do it, under the "letter of the law", thanks to Jake at CNN. ] (]) 23:11, 28 May 2013 (UTC) ::::::No, I still don't know how many people attended -- no secondary source has reported a global estimate that appears to be based on their own work. As I have found 2ndary found sources for local rallies I have added them along with attendance reported by those 2ndary sources. (''I have added them! I am trying to be helpful.'') That is all I know. CNN took the 3 numbers (total attendance, cities, and countries) that the organizers have been repeating and reported them in its own voice, without attributing them to the organizers. So, you now have a secondary source that has reported the 2M number in its own voice. Under policy you can use it, and under policy nobody can revert you, as far as I know. That is what I am saying. I am also saying that CNN did bad journalism, since they didn't attribute the numbers but reported them as fact. But they did it. I think it is reasonable for the article to state, "According to organizers, 2M attended" as the article said at some point earlier today. I think it is bad for Misplaced Pages to state the 2M attendees as a fact until we have a secondary source that is actually reporting and not just repeating unattributed statements from the organizers. But now you can do it, under the "letter of the law", thanks to Jake at CNN. ] (]) 23:11, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

== lead/intro needs clarification ==

In the fourth sentence this phrasing ''" focuses on protesting ] products made by the Monsanto corporation"'' is problematic because Monsanto does not make the products, as far I know, just the seeds used to grow the food in others' products. I would have changed it myself if I had a better version in mind. It may need to be split out as a separate sentence. '']'' <sup>(])</sup> 01:34, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 01:34, 29 May 2013

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IIVeaa aka 1Veertje removed a whole table of data

Objection!!! Dear IIVeaa, aka 1Veertje, Why removed the whole table of data in March Against Monsanto without giving people time to more complete it?

I spent 7 hours till 04:00 to do it and I　had to sleep. And other poeople sure have also spend many good hours on top.

Do you really want wikipedia work for the best of all people?

Or are you just doing it for your own rules?

Do you have stock or funds or interested or know anyone related to Monsanto & alike??

218.102.187.145 (talk) 00:08, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

If 1Veertje really want Misplaced Pages to work for good clause,

and if you see a table messed up by someone,

why not correct the table format as you are experienced?

Deleting hours of works by several other people is very inconsiderate, if not rude.

218.102.187.145 (talk) 02:18, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

I haven't got a clue why you would mention my old username, but as Jytdog already pointed out: there are valid reasons for removing it. Oh, and stop accusing all and everyone of being a Monsanto pr person without having any foundation for such claims. Hint: PR people usually work during office hours, not on weekends. I came by this article after I transferred pictures of the Amsterdam event from Flickr to commons, so you really have no basis for saying that-Vera (talk) 06:06, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
i started this page. i work for an organic seed company which is in a law suit against Monsanto. i want GMOs banned and i want to put Monsanto out of business. And i try hard to work inside the wikipedia format. The data you were working on i am fairly confident is the table from the MAM website of all the cities which were organizing marches. This is completely inappropriate for wikipedia. First off, there is absolutely no way to verify that this was not just made up by the event organizers (i am confident it was not, but it does not matter). Secondly, if you wanted to insert the table, you should complete it in your user space or in a sandbox and then when it is ready post it up, rather than working on the live version, especially of a contentious article like this one was likely to be. Third, the time you spend doing work to put it up is irrelevant if you are formatting work is being done on data which is not verifiable enough for this community. It is not rude to take your stuff down, it is exactly how wikipedia does and should operate. i agree with you politically completely, but there is no conspiracy here, you are not using this tool correctly. Paxus Calta (talk) 06:47, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
Wow thanks for posting, Paxuscalta. First please let me thank you for declaring your conflict of interest with respect to this article. Hopefully you are aware of WP:COI. And thank you as well for helping 218.102.187.145 understand what happened. That was very kind of you! Jytdog (talk) 13:44, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Monsanto march

hello,

i just noticed that this page was scheduled to be deleted. I don't see a valid reason for a complete wipeout of someone's hard work to share information. If anything maybe a revising or something else. Deleting an entire entry which took place in many areas of the world is not only ignorant but bordering on malefaisance(sp).

this person may have sections which are incomplete, but i am certain people will be visiting this site. i have a large account on twitter and i posted a note on this because i perceive this to infringe on freedom of expression. i know that there are many countries which ban the freedom of expression, but as a military vet, i believe i have the right to learn about the multinational presence of monsanto.

all i know is that a march did indeed take place yesterday and i reiterate,i would expect a revision not so much as a deletion as i saw nothing majorly wrong with the article. i do not know the person who submitted this article at all by the ways.

show some integrity please. thank you! samantha a.k.a. Miibiiiiii (talk • contribs) 03:26, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Table of data are removed way too fast too fishy

The event took places in hundreds of cities.

It need time to let users around the world to help complete the data.

I seriously suspected that some people who did that are biased.

WHY　someone removed data so fast? Monsanto-hired PR people?

I know people have invested heavily in stocks or funds of bio-techs +/ food manufacturing conglomerates.

Personally I have not participated or organized or know anyone in person related to the marches.

Just a sense of justice.

218.102.187.145 (talk) 03:44, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

I've deleted the table several times, and have explained the rationale: the content was unsourced and promotional in effect. To be accused of affiliation with Monsanto--I voted 'keep' in the AfD discussion--is the wrong path to take here. 99.149.85.229 (talk) 03:55, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
I am sorry that your hard work was lost User 218.102.187.14 - I know what that is like! However user 99.149.85.229 is correct. Content in Misplaced Pages needs to have reliable sources. Please, please read WP:RS. The table from the organizers' website is not a RS - secondary sources are necessary to support the data that goes in the table. Users around the world cannot complete the data based on their own observations - that would violate one of the polices of Misplaced Pages, namely the one against original research.Jytdog (talk) 04:19, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Number of attendees

I've removed estimates of how many people supposedly attended the march as I don't consider them reliable. CTV said 200k attended, but don't explain how they reached this. The organisers claimed that 2 million people attended 436 marches, but based on the numbers who attended individual marches this doesn't stack up. 2 million / 436 = ~ 5000 but I can't find any other than the Portland march which was anywhere near this. Unless we can find something that is realistic, I think it is better to leave it out of the article. SmartSE (talk) 19:30, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

I've used the RT article as a source for 2 million. Check the reliable sources noticeboard for questions regarding their standing, if you have further questions. petrarchan47tc 19:44, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
I'm also adding the Washington Post statement that organizers claimed the same number. The organizers' number was important enough to merit inclusion in the first paragraph of a WaPo story - to question it's inclusion here only raises red flags that there is some weird attempt at censorship, imo. petrarchan47tc 19:47, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
That's better, although I think it is clear that RT are only using the organisers' claims rather than reaching it themselves. SmartSE (talk) 20:10, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
Think so? CNN just said unequivocally that "millions" took part in the march see?. petrarchan47tc 22:22, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
I don't know what to say. It a reliable source, so go ahead and put it in. It is slop journalism (the 3 numbers old Jake cites are directly from the organizers, but unattributed to them and stated in CNN's voice) but is clearly allowable under the rules as far as I can tell - so if that is what you want your Misplaced Pages to be made of, knock yourself out and I don't think anybody can stop you. Salon and others have handled this much more responsibly, as did you earlier today. http://www.salon.com/2013/05/26/up_to_2_million_march_against_monsanto/ Jytdog (talk) 22:39, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
Now you're arguing the event was attended by millions, but you'd rather Salon were quoted rather than CNN? Just trying to get clarity on your stance. No one is going to stop you from adding the Salon article, if it meets RS. (I'd like to see proof that it does.) Jytdog, strange comments about no one being able to stop me are untrue and unnecessary, please stick to content and leave personal comments out, yes? Remember your stance on bullshit? What I want for "my Misplaced Pages" is that editors follow guidelines, whether they agree with them or not, that includes WP:RS, and refrain from trying to minimize or delete verifiable encyclopedic content. petrarchan47tc 23:02, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
No, I still don't know how many people attended -- no secondary source has reported a global estimate that appears to be based on their own work. As I have found 2ndary found sources for local rallies I have added them along with attendance reported by those 2ndary sources. (I have added them! I am trying to be helpful.) That is all I know. CNN took the 3 numbers (total attendance, cities, and countries) that the organizers have been repeating and reported them in its own voice, without attributing them to the organizers. So, you now have a secondary source that has reported the 2M number in its own voice. Under policy you can use it, and under policy nobody can revert you, as far as I know. That is what I am saying. I am also saying that CNN did bad journalism, since they didn't attribute the numbers but reported them as fact. But they did it. I think it is reasonable for the article to state, "According to organizers, 2M attended" as the article said at some point earlier today. I think it is bad for Misplaced Pages to state the 2M attendees as a fact until we have a secondary source that is actually reporting and not just repeating unattributed statements from the organizers. But now you can do it, under the "letter of the law", thanks to Jake at CNN. Jytdog (talk) 23:11, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

lead/intro needs clarification

In the fourth sentence this phrasing " focuses on protesting genetically modified products made by the Monsanto corporation" is problematic because Monsanto does not make the products, as far I know, just the seeds used to grow the food in others' products. I would have changed it myself if I had a better version in mind. It may need to be split out as a separate sentence. El duderino 01:34, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

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