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Behaviour on this page: Arbitration case pages exist to assist the Arbitration Committee in arriving at a fair, well-informed decision. You are required to act with appropriate decorum during this case. While grievances must often be aired during a case, you are expected to air them without being rude or hostile, and to respond calmly to allegations against you. Accusations of misbehaviour posted in this case must be proven with clear evidence (and otherwise not made at all). Editors who conduct themselves inappropriately during a case may be sanctioned by an arbitrator or clerk, without further warning, by being banned from further participation in the case, or being blocked altogether. Personal attacks against other users, including arbitrators or clerks, will be met with sanctions. Behaviour during a case may also be considered by the committee in arriving at a final decision.

Hello?

Is anybody out there working on this? 5.12.69.171 (talk) 18:32, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

They are. They are also very busy with the Sexology case; I'm expecting to see something here shortly after that one closes. KillerChihuahua 15:32, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

There are also a fair amount of other things occupying our attention. I wouldn't expect to see anything before next week. NW (Talk) 15:40, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Which would certainly fall under "shortly after". :-) KillerChihuahua 16:18, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Well hopefully we will resolve the Sexology case soon, but I think basically everyone is unhappy with that current decision but doesn't know how to proceed on it. Well, that's me anyway. NW (Talk) 18:40, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

You all have my sympathies with that one, that's a murky mess and I'm sure you're all doing the best you can with it. KillerChihuahua 18:49, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Officially one month late! Great work! Heimstern Läufer (talk) 01:46, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

One hopes they will remember this and show tolerance should they be waiting on respondents in a case in the future. They can hardly insist on promptness while requiring patience for their own lack of adherence to schedule. KillerChihuahua 21:57, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

And in general I think we do a fair job of that. But SilkTork is 100% correct below – there has been plenty to distract us as of late and unfortunately, it had to take a bit higher priority than this case. NW (Talk) 18:18, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Structures aside, I think that the real (best hope for and most on-target) fix by Arbcom is what they/ SilkTork are doing at the article itself. North8000 (talk) 10:58, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

• To the drafting arbs (Newyorkbrad and SilkTork): How about striking out and revising the present proposed decision "deadline" (3 April) in the casenav template to some date you think likely, or possible? That's probably not the custom, but IMO it should be. Don't make me link deadline to Wiktionary, now. Bishonen | talk 13:24, 5 May 2013 (UTC).

Frustrates me as well the delay on this. But that is due to matters not on Wiki that diverted the Committee's attention, and NYB in particular. I can assure everyone that the Committee have not been knitting. And that some of the distractions would be classed as very serious, and NYB's involvement was necessary and valued. At NYB's suggestion I took over, and I have just been waiting for the Committee to look over the draft before posting it on Monday. SilkTork 13:49, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

My thanks to everyone for your patience (not that you had any choice about being patient, I know; and I sympathize completely, having been on the other side of the situation before I was an arbitrator). As SilkTork indicates, he took up the baton in preparing this decision, and I appreciate his doing so, and at the same time, apologize my contribution toward the delay in moving the case to a PD. Newyorkbrad (talk) 18:23, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Remedy 2

Broadly written this sounds like any edit if it removes anything anyone else has included would be in effect a revert and thus worthy of blocking. This also is unusual as compared to other similar restrictions which I have seen in other areas. What is to stop someone from adding something simply stupid and then being unable to revert? If you make it so that the main editors cannot revert anything...ever.. you basically make it impossible to have a viable project in this area. Arzel (talk) 17:54, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone know of any article or person where 0RR has worked? (Let me rephrase that. Does anyone know of any situation where a pure 0RR can be distinguished from an editing ban?) A modified 0RR (you cannot revert an edit which restores your previous edit) has been known to work. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 02:05, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I find myself agreeing with Rubin here; 0RR is a sticky wicket, virtually indistinguishable from an editing ban unless specifics are added. KillerChihuahua 18:10, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Inaccurate inference regarding me

I resent the inference created by the "union thugs" mentioned in conjunction with me out of context giving the impression that I wrote it. The workshop covers this in detail It was written by somebody else, and my "insertion" of it was just via my reverting the blanking of an entire section which contained it, and which I was then immediately paring/editing minute by minute (after stating that I was doing such) when I was interrupted by a large reversion. Talk about BLP! Here is a false implied statement about me! North8000 (talk) 18:36, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

When you make an edit, you take responsibility for its content, period. If you restore material written by someone else, then you need to be comfortable assuming responsibility for its content, or else you shouldn't restore it. Your defense here reflects poorly on you - you're essentially saying that you can't be held responsible because you were just reverting for the sake of reverting, without verifying the material in question. MastCell  19:46, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

No that's not what I said or meant. I meant that the inference (that I would deliberately make a BLP violation, or that I wrote that material) is false. And since and I was doing a multi-step minute-by-minute edit, paring the material out of the blanking which I reverted when I was interrupted, I was most likely taking it out when I was interrupted. I don't even remember, since this question was not even brought up until a stale 2 years later. So it was either an easy-to-make error, or something that I wasn't even leaving in, and not an indicator of my attitude regarding BLP, contrary to the innuendos being case by yourself and NW. So, to be clear, I'll say it again. I take wp:blp seriously, and never did and never will knowingly violate it. If I was intending to leave any violating item during that interrupted multi-step edit, it would have been wrong. North8000 (talk) 20:42, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

North, it's silly to send readers in search of where and how this mention was made. It's likely to make many of them lose interest, frankly. For your own sake, you should provide a link for context. (Here it is.) And preferably a link to the diff NW mentioned, too. (I haven't found that one; yes, you're right, NW might have provided it himself.) How do you expect us to know what you're talking about..? Bishonen | talk 21:39, 6 May 2013 (UTC).

Thanks for the link. Well, regarding a diff of something that shows that their inuendo was correct, such does not exist, because the inuendo is false. But I'll provide info and diffs related to the 2 year old item that was trying to be ginned up into something. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 23:36, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

It's nearly a whole section on the Workshop page, so a diff won't do it. And I can't get a link to work because there are multiple sections with the same name. But if you do a text search on the workshop page for "Could you explain your concerns with that dif. It's from two years ago, and was part of an edit war involving several users", that text is at the start of that section. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 23:46, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

I think this may be the thread that is being referred to (at least that link format works for me) and the diff NW mentioned was presumably this one. --Noren (talk) 00:50, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Finally, here is a diff where 'this question was brought up' at the time, including policy-based objections made to that exact diff. The full discussion thread is archived here.--Noren (talk) 01:09, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Noren, I see the "union thugs". I agree entirely with MastCell. Bishonen | talk 01:38, 7 May 2013 (UTC).

Here is the chronology:

• 13:16 July 12, 2011 The discussed material is already in the article, written by others, and PhGustaff blanks the entire section that contains it.
• 13:36 July 12, 2011 I revert the blanking, and in the edit summary said that that is the starting point of a series of edits over minutes to upgrade and source it
• 13:37 July 12, 2011 An edit by me in a series of of edits to upgrade and source it.
• 13:38 July 12, 2011 An edit by me in a series of of edits to upgrade and source it.
• 13:42 July 12, 2011 An edit by me in a series of of edits to upgrade and source it.
• 13:44 July 12, 2011 An edit by me in a series of of edits to upgrade and source it.
• 13:48 July 12, 2011 TFD interrupts my work by blanking the section and the material stays out.

Now, exactly WHAT is somebody claiming that the above shows about me? North8000 (talk) 02:23, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

And having to go back two years to have to find even something that needs a lot of ginning up to make it sound like it shows something bad about me speaks volumes is several ways. North8000 (talk) 02:23, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

North8000's proposed sanction

With all due respect to the drafting arbiter, I don't think a topic ban from the Tea Party movement is sufficient to address North's problematic editing. Let me offer my apologies for not bringing this up in the workshop or evidence phases - the only reason I didn't is because I could have sworn that it had already been mentioned and would have been addressed in the final decision. With that said, North8000 has a problematic history on at least one other page related to conservative politics, namely Homophobia. I have had this page on my watch list for years and up until a somewhat distant voluntary topic ban, North8000's comments were a consistently disruptive force on that article.

Basically, North8000 engaged in constant POV pushing by attempting to eschew the reliable sources on the subject - which discuss homophobia as a concept - for an etymological deduction which seemingly mitigated the stigma associated with being homophobic in contemporary times. That is, while the reliable sources discuss homophobia as a point of view encompassing opposition to homosexuality, North tendentiously argued that because the roots of "homophobia" include "phobia" then it must mean that charges of homophobia are irrational because homophobes aren't actually afraid of gays (they just "disagree" with homosexuality, or some such nonsense) (@North: sorry if I misinterpreted your argument, please feel free to correct me). It was explained on multiple occasions that WP articles are about subjects and not words, but to no avail until it went before AN/I and North agreed to said voluntary topic ban.

While the AN/I complaint was closed as essentially "no consensus" - and in part due to the voluntary topic ban - many of the opposes were based on faulty reasoning.

I implore Arbcom to read over the AN/I report I linked above - or even just half of it (there are plenty of diffs involved). I know it's long, but I believe it's important when considering that the sanctions being presented are directly relevant to North's disposition as an editor, and not simply on the particular article in question. I think that after reading it you will agree that the topic ban proposed should cover American politics, or to a lesser extent conservative politics, but certainly not just TPM. Thank you for your time, and again, my apologies for the late presentation. Sædon 11:17, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

That is a complete misstatement of the situation. I had some of the guards there come after me just for trying to bring the article to neutral and not disappearing. Their complaint was that I was NOT editing the article, and posting about 24 comments on the talk page in a year. (basically agreeing with the continuous stream of other editors that voice concerns and who they keep chasing away) I said that as a quick pragmatic solution I'd be happy to stay away from the article for a year, provided that it was very clear that such was no indication of being at "fault" for anything. PS shortly afterwords Associated Press (AP) came out with guidelines for the word which reinforced what I was saying. North8000 (talk) 11:48, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

North, I respectfully disagree but doubt we will convince each other. It's entirely possible that I've incorrectly assessed the situation and I trust what ever conclusions Arbcom come to. Regardless of the outcome, I have no intent to bring it up in the future, but I felt it pertinent to address here. Sædon 12:15, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

• North, is your "about 24 comments on the talk page in a year" a typo for "about 266 comments on the talk page in a year ", as stated in the ANI discussion Saedon links to, and as confirmed here? You want to be more careful with that kind of thing, or people will start distrusting what you say. Bishonen | talk 12:25, 7 May 2013 (UTC).

Using WikiChecker finds him with 170 edits in 15 months (way under the "266 in a year" level) ... and 32 talk page edits in one month, of which several were "minor" edits. He accounts for under 7% of edits in that period. Fifth most active on the talk page in that period. Collect (talk) 13:13, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah. I gave a link for my figure; a link which also shows North as by far the top contributor to Talk:Homophobia in the relevant timespan (=the timespan dealt with in the ANI thread from 2012-11-16), namely 2011-11-27 to 2012-11-16. North started editing the page on 2011-11-27 and stopped on 2012-11-18, so I don't see the relevance of "15 months" — which 15 months? You don't give any links for yours. What is it with you people and links? Bishonen | talk 14:21, 7 May 2013 (UTC).

I used the count on the TPM which is the subject of this propose decision so your carping about "Homophobia" is a straw man argument when seen from here THIS DECISION IS NOT ABOUT HOMOPHOBIA. Is that quite clear? Now why the hell is that important here? N8000 has 8 edits on Talk:Homophobia in a period of about 6 months (175 days). Period. Making him tied for the nineteenth most active poster there, with under 2% of the edits on that talk page. . Usually folks here know about Wikichecker, and giving new links to it every time is pretty silly. Collect (talk) 17:56, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, this is degenerating into spin, innuendo and shots, which is the OPPOSITE of what Arbcom is. North8000 (talk) 18:14, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I was going from memory and thinking of the chronology in the "dissection of a myth" section. Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchiveNorth8000 Discussion#Dissection of a myth Looking back, that was that I had 16 edits on the talk page in the 9 weeks preceding the ANI. One was agreeing with the guards on an unrelated topic, one was putting the missing notice in the talk page etc., one was agreeing to the demands of the guards. As I hypothesized there, IMO the response was apparently "Holy crap, North just agreed to do EXACTLY as we asked - trouble in river city - we'd better do something! and then 16 hours later filed a ANI which pretended that that didn't happen. North8000 (talk) 13:43, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

You said you had "about 24 comments on the talk page in a year", my bolding, but you were thinking of something completely different and would like to change the subject? Your memory is crap. Please to check it before you hit save. Bishonen | talk 14:21, 7 May 2013 (UTC).

Yes, per above. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 15:34, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Having 266 edits on the talk page is not the same as having 266 comments. Seems that actually overstates it by around 100. I counted them manually. He was not the most active editor on that page either, though he was the only active editor whose views on homosexuality differed from the liberal perspective. Similarly this current situation arose because of liberal editors trying to remove the conservative editors from the Tea Party page. That, however, is not in the best interests of crafting an objective and reliable encyclopedic work. As Collect notes below, it is important to have all views represented.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 20:58, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Actually, being a libertarian (not a conservative) my views on homosexuality match the liberal / LGBT perspective, but my views on the nastier of LGBT activist's tactics do not, particularly when those tactics are executed in articles contrary to wp:policies. That is what it was about. North8000 (talk) 22:12, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I am not using "liberal" based on its literal meaning, but rather how it is understood in American political parlance. That perspective is actually at odds with the libertarian perspective.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 23:06, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

What you said both times was fine, I was just clarifying. North8000 (talk) 23:54, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Basta

We now know that the mediation appears to be working -- which is what ought to have been done before this action. There is precious little evidence that "topic bans" on anyone are actually called for, and plenty of evidence that it is "time to get (editor x) for being "tendentious" which is not sufficient reason for an entire group of new arbitration findings and actions.

We also know the community did not have any consensus on any sanctions - and that sanctions were proposed which had absolutely no basis in reason -- that is, names were used without regard to any actual cause at all, providing no evidence whatsoever, based solely on personal dislike or animus (it appears) of editors who may actually have differing opinions. And it is precisely the allowing of "differing opinions" which is essential to the concept of Misplaced Pages. If we only allow "correct opinions" on topics, we can not call this an "encyclopedia" with a straight fae.

Thus I urge a new finding:

This action has been rendered moot due to mediation. Should the mediation end up as being failed, then a new action may be brought, based on the results and actions during that mediation. You may all go home.

And a new principle:

Differing opinions on topics are essential to the project, and should not be used as a basis for barring any editor from colloegially expressing an opinion.

I realize that there is a lot of time invested in this, including more than a little hot air, but there are times, indeed, to say "Enough! Go home!" Collect (talk) 11:33, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Can you point to how you believe mediation has rendered the case moot? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 13:25, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

1. ArbCom generally declines cases where mediation is underway - and since it is underway, there is an intrinsic conflict with past ArbCom dicta.

2. The mediation is proceeding apace - and it is possible that if it fails, that there would be suitable material for an ArbCom case which is not present in the current case (which has a lot of verbiage, and very little solid content as to current misbehaviour by anyone at all, quite frankly. When 2 year old edits have to be drudged up, one wonders just how urgent the "cure" is).

3. If the mediation succeeds, then what actual good shall have come from this case?

4. Right now, the principles are basically the usual boiler-plate, with no sign that any of them are particulary or notably applicable to the evidence provided (other than 2 year old edits).

So we have a case which does not "solve" anything at the present time, and which does not do much more than be a chronophagous exercise. Collect (talk) 14:18, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

To tell you the truth, I don't think that this case even knows what it is about. One thing that it was clearly about and succeeded at was ending the random-mob-violence snake pit (the ANI that never should have happenned) by shifting it to a basis of looking at the actual evidence. (although a few folks have violated that) So that is one place where the case solved the problem, not just rendered it moot.

The fundamental problem at the article is that the content has been determined by TE rather than discussions/decisions, and the reason for that (long story short) is that (so far) TE (for the people willing to do it) works and is even protected, discussion doesn't and isn't. And the person most involved on this is not even listed as a party so anything related to individual editors who are parties would be a mis-fire. Actually anything that that seeks to help this article that involves going after individual editors would (other than a nudge on TE for a couple) is a mis-fire. 0RR for just past active editors would just have them fade away and be replaced by a new set, doing the same thing. That process has already started.

The moderated discussion combined with locking the article combined with folks knowing that they are under the magnifying glass have together made the situation better than it has been. North8000 (talk) 13:51, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

If tendentious editing is the root problem, then mediation is doomed to fail in the long run. In general, ArbCom's approach to disputes marked by tendentious editing has been to remove the worst offenders via topic-bans, apply revert restrictions, and turn over remaining issues to the admins at WP:AE via discretionary sanctions. The effectiveness of that approach varies (depending, in part, on ArbCom's success in identifying the problem editors), but it sometimes works and its track record is better than that of any other approach I've seen (certainly waaaaay better than the track record of mediation).

Also, the fact that the editing atmosphere has improved during the case is not surprising, as all parties realize that they are under heightened scrutiny. Once the shadow of an open ArbCom case is gone, things will devolve back to the way they were unless some of the parameters are actually changed. MastCell  17:45, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Admonishments

I noted on the Workshop page that I think KillerChihuahua should be admonished for her conduct during this case as she has personalized and inflamed matters beyond what should be acceptable from an administrator, but I also think admonishments should be considered for other editors as well to serve as alternatives to sanctions. Specifically, it should be considered for editors who are not serious offenders such as Malke. Perhaps a general admonishment or "Editors reminded" to cover the behaviors in the topic area so there will be a template for editors who are less active or who become active there.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 21:36, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I'm not sure I agree. She misinterpreted some statements (to the point that I would normally say that it would fall into WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT), and unnecessarily inflamed the situation, but I can't think of anything specific. which could be objectively described, which warrants sanctions. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 02:00, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I know that I disagree strongly with TDA, across the board. And to be blunt, Killer deserves thanks from the entire Misplaced Pages Community for bringing this matter here. Indeed, I'd support her for ArbCom membership. Sanctions for her? Fah. Jusdafax 03:00, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Admonishments should be considered as an alternative to specific sanctions if the Committee cannot agree on specific sanctions but can agree the editor has not been helpful. I was just saying I don't see admonishments as being appropriate for KC, although, unlike Jusdafax, I can see serious errors she has made. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 04:00, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I believe assumption of bad faith would be the most accurate characterization. My summing up of the issues I saw that stuck out was here. Plus, I think it is telling that she focused so much on you and Malke with her evidence on this case, the two people who she apparently regarded as having most aggrieved her personally. You especially she seems to have singled out.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 06:15, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I think that a close analysis shows that KC did several things that were either erroneous, unfair or very poor choices, (and acting with a bit of a battling mentality) and such were key in creating the giant shitstorm over something that is routine at that article. My comments in the mob-violence-snake-pit (which make sense only in that context) not withstanding, I am the type to just try to "tell it straight" to the person in a matter-of-fact way (nobody is perfect, and most are guided by just hearing it) and then move on and try to be friends. My most prized barnsters are from those that I've butted heads with.. North8000 (talk) 11:43, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

• For the record, I had to pick and choose what evidence to give due to space constraints. There was no point duplicating someone else's evidence. So to think my choices were determined by ranking who I thought was the biggest problem is to misunderstand my approach fundamentally. TDA, we all know you want me sanctioned. You don't like me, we get it already. AR, you wish I'd done things differently but A) hindsight is 20/20 and B) everyone is different. I know *I* wouldn't have stirred the pot by calling for sanctions on an uninvolved admin, for example, nor would I call a fellow admin a bitch, even by inference, both of which you seem to find acceptable. KillerChihuahua 18:17, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

• Actually, it is not the case that I don't like you. What I do think is that there was never any reason for the situation to spiral out of control and that your conduct is a major reason why it did. You have taken sides in this dispute and made the situation personal with several of the opposing parties. At the time goethean asked for you to get involved, there were many uncivil and battleground-style comments that editor had made towards North just a little bit further up, but you either didn't bother to check those comments on the page or you just ignored them. That same thing happened when you posted your combative little "reminder" section a few days later. You admonished Malke for one comment, but made no mention of the comment immediately preceding it where goethean was attacking another editor.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 20:43, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Comment regarding "Enforcement of decision sanctions"

As in a previous case, I am of the view that the provision "Appeals of blocks may be made ... to arbitration enforcement" is too vague to be helpful, because it does not specify who makes the decision about the appeal at WP:AE, and with which degree of consensus. If I recall correctly, in the previous case, the provision was then amended to something like "by consensus of uninvolved administrators at WP:AE". In general, it would be helpful to have more specific general rules about arbitration appeals procedures, as I highlighted in a now-archived clarification request. Do arbitrators still intend to act on that request?  Sandstein  11:15, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

The same applies to the "Standard Enforcement" provision, the title of which should, by the way, probably be capitalised as "Standard enforcement".  Sandstein  11:59, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I was a bit reluctant because it might end up contradicting the procedural clarification motion that we should...hopefully...be voting on Soon. But I'll add it for now since we already passed a specific provision in WP:ARBRAN and cleaning up two cases isn't that much more work than cleaning up one, if it turns out necessary.

Changing the standard enforcement would require a separate motion, though. T. Canens (talk) 15:19, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Uppercase changed to lowercase for the future. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 15:41, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Comment regarding "Enforcement of discretionary sanctions"

I recommend to omit this remedy, which currently reads "Should any editor subject to a discretionary sanction under this decision violate the terms of the sanction, then further sanctions may be imposed as appropriate pursuant to the discretionary sanction remedy." Is that not implicit in the grant of authority at WP:AC/DS? If not, I recommend to add it there, as part of the general rules. Because if this rule is added on a case-by-case basis to individual decisions, then it would be easy to (erroneously) conclude that this means that escalating sanctions, as envisaged by this provision, are not normally allowed as part of discretionary sanctions, and are therefore not permitted in cases which lack such an enforcement provision.  Sandstein  11:22, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the arbs who passed it in older cases intended, but for this case my intention is to clarify that enforcement 1 does not apply to discretionary sanctions. T. Canens (talk) 15:09, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Comment regarding the definition of "revert" in the 0RR restrictions

The proposed remedies with the wording "... is indefinitely prohibited from making any edit related to the Tea Party movement that could be reasonably construed as a revert" links to Help:Reverting. That page defines a revert as "undoing the effects of one or more edits, which results in the page being restored to a previous version". That is a more restrictive definition than the more commonly used one in WP:3RR, which says: "A "revert" means any edit (or administrative action) that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material". The difference is that according to the first definition, an edit is only a revert if it restores a page to a previous version (that is, with the exact same wording). This means that, for the purpose of the proposed remedies, an edit that undoes the removal of (say) a racial slur by re-adding a slightly different racial slur is not a revert. I doubt that this is what is intended with the remedy, and recommend that arbitrators review the definition of "revert" they want to refer to.  Sandstein  12:11, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I think that the middle ground for a revert definition in general would be the (broader) 3RR definition, with the qualifier that it be to a recent edit. I've seen claims that, for example, that the (first) removal of something put in years before is a "revert" of that ancient edit. North8000 (talk) 12:22, 8 May 2013 (UTC)