| Revision as of 13:52, 31 May 2012 editDlv999 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users5,466 edits →Changes after the advent of the 'New Historians': new section← Previous edit | Revision as of 14:14, 31 May 2012 edit undoVanished user lt94ma34le12 (talk | contribs)8,065 edits →Changes after the advent of the 'New Historians'Next edit → | ||
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| For a more balanced appraisal of Morris' position on orders for evacuation by Arabs see Ben Ami p43 2006, ''"It is not at all clear, as maintained by a conventional Israeli myth, that the Palestinian exodus was encouraged by the Arab states and by local leaders. Benny Morris found no evidence to show ‘that either the leaders of the Arab states or the Mufti ordered or directly encouraged the mass exodus’. Indeed, Morris found evidence to the effect that the local Arab leadership and militia commanders discouraged flight, and Arab radio stations issued calls to the Palestinians to stay put, and even to return to their homes if they had already left. True, there were more than a few cases where local Arab commanders ordered the evacuation of villages. But these seemed to have been tactical decisions taken under very specific military conditions; they did not respond to an overall strategy either of the local Palestinian leaders or of the Arab states."'' ] (]) 13:52, 31 May 2012 (UTC) | For a more balanced appraisal of Morris' position on orders for evacuation by Arabs see Ben Ami p43 2006, ''"It is not at all clear, as maintained by a conventional Israeli myth, that the Palestinian exodus was encouraged by the Arab states and by local leaders. Benny Morris found no evidence to show ‘that either the leaders of the Arab states or the Mufti ordered or directly encouraged the mass exodus’. Indeed, Morris found evidence to the effect that the local Arab leadership and militia commanders discouraged flight, and Arab radio stations issued calls to the Palestinians to stay put, and even to return to their homes if they had already left. True, there were more than a few cases where local Arab commanders ordered the evacuation of villages. But these seemed to have been tactical decisions taken under very specific military conditions; they did not respond to an overall strategy either of the local Palestinian leaders or of the Arab states."'' ] (]) 13:52, 31 May 2012 (UTC) | ||
| ::And even for an even more 'balanced' appraisal, we have the : | |||
| ::''The Palestinian Arabs were not responsible "in some bizarre way" (David Norris, January 31st) for what befell them in 1948. Their responsibility was very direct and simple.'' | |||
| ::''In defiance of the will of the international community, as embodied in the UN General Assembly Resolution of November 29th, 1947 (No. 181), they launched hostilities against the Jewish community in Palestine in the hope of aborting the emergence of the Jewish state and perhaps destroying that community. But they lost; and one of the results was the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes.'' | |||
| ::''It is true, as Erskine Childers pointed out long ago, that there were no Arab radio broadcasts urging the Arabs to flee en masse; indeed, there were broadcasts by several Arab radio stations urging them to stay put. But, on the local level, in dozens of localities around Palestine, Arab leaders advised or ordered the evacuation of women and children or whole communities, as occurred in Haifa in late April, 1948. And Haifa's Jewish mayor, Shabtai Levy, did, on April 22nd, plead with them to stay, to no avail.'' | |||
| ::''Most of Palestine's 700,000 "refugees" fled their homes because of the flail of war (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of victorious Arab invaders). But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.'' | |||
| ::''The displacement of the 700,000 Arabs who became "refugees" - and I put the term in inverted commas, as two-thirds of them were displaced from one part of Palestine to another and not from their country (which is the usual definition of a refugee) - was not a "racist crime" (David Landy, January 24th) but the result of a national conflict and a war, with religious overtones, from the Muslim perspective, launched by the Arabs themselves.'' | |||
| ::''There was no Zionist "plan" or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of "ethnic cleansing". Plan Dalet (Plan D), of March 10th, 1948 (it is open and available for all to read in the IDF Archive and in various publications), was the master plan of the Haganah - the Jewish military force that became the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) - to counter the expected pan-Arab assault on the emergent Jewish state. That's what it explicitly states and that's what it was. And the invasion of the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq duly occurred, on May 15th.'' | |||
| ::''It is true that Plan D gave the regional commanders carte blanche to occupy and garrison or expel and destroy the Arab villages along and behind the front lines and the anticipated Arab armies' invasion routes. And it is also true that mid-way in the 1948 war the Israeli leaders decided to bar the return of the "refugees" (those "refugees" who had just assaulted the Jewish community), viewing them as a potential fifth column and threat to the Jewish state's existence. I for one cannot fault their fears or logic.'' | |||
| Morris prefaces this by noting a tendency of Israel-haters of "citing - and more often, mis-citing - my work in support of their arguments". This analysis appears to be particularly apt.<small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']'''.''']'''</small> 14:14, 31 May 2012 (UTC) | |||
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'Exodus' unsourced & incorrect. 'Nakba' it is.
The word exodus for the fleeing of Palestinians before and during the 1948 war is an incorrect word. There are no sources for this usage, except from non RS. Expectedly so, since the word would be used in reverse of the Hebrew meaning (i.e. fleeing out of Egypt 'homeward'). The proper word is Nakba. -DePiep (talk) 01:50, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
- You're mistaken. Do a search on google books for "Palestinian exodus". No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 23:09, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
I'm not in principle against changing the title of this article, but any change would be controversial, so submit a move request and take it from there. PatGallacher (talk) 00:32, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
4000?
The article says "By mid-4 May 000 Arabs remained in Haifa." Could this be "By mid-May 4000 Arabs remained in Haifa"?VR talk 05:59, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
- I checked the source, and you're right. I fixed it. — Malik Shabazz /Stalk 16:18, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
Request
Can somebody please mention (bullys keep the truth) that there were anti-Jewish riots or Exodus that can be just as exaggerated as yours if people wern't so scared of Muslims and Anti-Semites, in 1929 or is that POV, or as dishonest as the Palestinian comedy? You will not lie forever. Maryester (talk) 00:37, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Can someone please mention that I found three newspapers that reported that Jews were being shot for praying at their holy sites during the late 19 and early 20 Century, prior to Israel, in Hebron and Jerusalem? Maryester (talk) 00:41, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
- What does this have to do with the 1948 Palestinian exodus? RolandR (talk) 00:59, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Changes after the advent of the 'New Historians'
regarding the recent addition, the section should cover the main changes after the advent of the 'New Historians' not discuss specific details where one or other of the New Historians may happen to agree with the official Israeli narrative.
For a more balanced appraisal of Morris' position on orders for evacuation by Arabs see Ben Ami p43 2006, "It is not at all clear, as maintained by a conventional Israeli myth, that the Palestinian exodus was encouraged by the Arab states and by local leaders. Benny Morris found no evidence to show ‘that either the leaders of the Arab states or the Mufti ordered or directly encouraged the mass exodus’. Indeed, Morris found evidence to the effect that the local Arab leadership and militia commanders discouraged flight, and Arab radio stations issued calls to the Palestinians to stay put, and even to return to their homes if they had already left. True, there were more than a few cases where local Arab commanders ordered the evacuation of villages. But these seemed to have been tactical decisions taken under very specific military conditions; they did not respond to an overall strategy either of the local Palestinian leaders or of the Arab states." Dlv999 (talk) 13:52, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
- And even for an even more 'balanced' appraisal, we have the man himself:
- The Palestinian Arabs were not responsible "in some bizarre way" (David Norris, January 31st) for what befell them in 1948. Their responsibility was very direct and simple.
- In defiance of the will of the international community, as embodied in the UN General Assembly Resolution of November 29th, 1947 (No. 181), they launched hostilities against the Jewish community in Palestine in the hope of aborting the emergence of the Jewish state and perhaps destroying that community. But they lost; and one of the results was the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes.
- It is true, as Erskine Childers pointed out long ago, that there were no Arab radio broadcasts urging the Arabs to flee en masse; indeed, there were broadcasts by several Arab radio stations urging them to stay put. But, on the local level, in dozens of localities around Palestine, Arab leaders advised or ordered the evacuation of women and children or whole communities, as occurred in Haifa in late April, 1948. And Haifa's Jewish mayor, Shabtai Levy, did, on April 22nd, plead with them to stay, to no avail.
- Most of Palestine's 700,000 "refugees" fled their homes because of the flail of war (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of victorious Arab invaders). But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.
- The displacement of the 700,000 Arabs who became "refugees" - and I put the term in inverted commas, as two-thirds of them were displaced from one part of Palestine to another and not from their country (which is the usual definition of a refugee) - was not a "racist crime" (David Landy, January 24th) but the result of a national conflict and a war, with religious overtones, from the Muslim perspective, launched by the Arabs themselves.
- There was no Zionist "plan" or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of "ethnic cleansing". Plan Dalet (Plan D), of March 10th, 1948 (it is open and available for all to read in the IDF Archive and in various publications), was the master plan of the Haganah - the Jewish military force that became the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) - to counter the expected pan-Arab assault on the emergent Jewish state. That's what it explicitly states and that's what it was. And the invasion of the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq duly occurred, on May 15th.
- It is true that Plan D gave the regional commanders carte blanche to occupy and garrison or expel and destroy the Arab villages along and behind the front lines and the anticipated Arab armies' invasion routes. And it is also true that mid-way in the 1948 war the Israeli leaders decided to bar the return of the "refugees" (those "refugees" who had just assaulted the Jewish community), viewing them as a potential fifth column and threat to the Jewish state's existence. I for one cannot fault their fears or logic.
Morris prefaces this by noting a tendency of Israel-haters of "citing - and more often, mis-citing - my work in support of their arguments". This analysis appears to be particularly apt.Ankh.Morpork 14:14, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
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