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India List‑class High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia List This article has been rated as List-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Pakistan List‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PakistanWikipedia:WikiProject PakistanTemplate:WikiProject PakistanPakistan List This article has been rated as List-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Bangladesh List‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bangladesh, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Bangladesh on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BangladeshWikipedia:WikiProject BangladeshTemplate:WikiProject BangladeshBangladesh List This article has been rated as List-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale. WikiProject Bangladesh To-do list: edit history watch purge Add more images to Bangladesh Liberation War and related pages Clean up Climate change in Bangladesh, it needs a lot of work Clean up History of Bangladesh after independence, it needs NPOV Improve Bangladesh back to FA as it was demoted (see discussion) Improve Bengali language back to FA as it was demoted (see discussion) Improve Bengalis and related pages Take a look at the requested articles. Make a MRT line 3 article. Extend, add an infobox and a map of New Eskaton to New Eskaton.

Invention of the decimal system: China (science not politics)

The earliest evidence of a decimal system is clearly China, as of the 14th century B.C. I quote from the Misplaced Pages page on Decimals, "According to the Cambridge University scholars, decimal numbers originated in China. The earliest evidence of use dates back to the 14th century BC, although it was almost certainly in use long before that." In addition, the article states, "Furthermore, according to the Cambridge University scholars, decimal fractions were first developed and used by the Chinese in the 1st century BC..." The sources cited should be vetted more carefully. We don't know what the Harappans may or may not have used since their script is undeciphered to this day. Hence, any claims of “evidence” of the use of decimals at Harappa or Mohenjo Daro are simply unsubstantiated. Undoubtedly, the people of India should be very proud of their contributions to human culture and advancement. However, we must strictly defend science and reject the hindutva attempts to re-write history for political aims. This is no different than rejecting the European pseudo-history that has poisoned all of official history. The goal of our struggle to free ourselves from the Eurocentric falsification of human history is not then to create a mirror image of the same chauvinism writ saffron. The re-writing of Indian history as the font of all culture, science and creations is a dangerous hoax aimed at promoting jingoism within Indian politics—with deadly consequences. It is no wonder that the right-wing Hindus found much to admire in the Nazis. So, I encourage a review of the article on a scientific basis, free of political agendas, in order to proudly and honestly celebrate the myriad contributions of the many civilizations of the subcontinent of India. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.226.245.143 (talk) 23:08, 30 November 2009 (UTC) 'Bold text

Submission for rating

I think this is an improved article we can be proud of. I have submitted to WikiProject India for review. I can only claim a little credit myself, most of the work has been done by JSP, Exxoo and others. I believe we can look forward to an improvement in the rating. Mdw0 (talk) 00:41, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the nomination and for your efforts. The article started improving the moment you and Exxoo appeared here. I was here before but no such improvements happened. Again thanks, JSR 0562 06:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Cheers. Well actually the one who did he most work for this article was none other than JSR. This was how it looked before he propped it up with assistance from Jagged85. Good job buddy! Exxoo (talk) 12:13, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

On behalf of WP India assessment team, WP India can give "List" as the best grade for this article. Apply for WP:Featured List for the best grade a list can get. You may initiate a WP:peer review for suggestions for further improvement. --Redtigerxyz 13:20, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

[[This reminds me of a joke, which goes like this: The Germans manufacture a carbon fiber nano-wire, less than a micron thick and send it to Japan as an example of their technological know-how. The Japanese tke the nano-wire and convert it into a nano-tube and return it back to the Germans. The Germans are highly impressed and they now send the nano-tube to many other countries, whose scientists appreciate the invention and return it back with.

However, when it arrives from India, the Germans are observing it the under electron-microscope to find out that the Indian scientists have inscribed on it: Made in INDIA.

Really, get serious: button! Furnace! Cockfighting! Pajamas! Plough! Reservoir!

Is this how Misplaced Pages keeps track of the information that is posted on it?]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.213.201.165 (talk) 06:29, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Images

Any particular reason why you want the images all the same size? You'd be eliminating some of the better ones if you do that, such as the prayer flags and the palampore. I dont follow why you'd delete the autocannon image and leave in the Ahabyata statue and circulatory system. The bow drill is a diagram, not a cartoon - can't we leave it there until we find a better one? Mdw0 (talk) 06:59, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

We can still have the prayer flag and palampore. The gun image is no good here since gun is a foreign invention. In an Indian court its best on the 'history of science' article. We should follow one standard size in my opinion. Just to make things standardized and neat. The other encyclopedia I saw also had smaller images with descriptive captions, generally of the same size in one article. The bow drill is just a poor illustration. In an article written in somewhat serious tone this image stands out like it belongs to one of those websites we see so often on Google. I know that someone with a good image tool can probably make this more serious and I can talk to someone tomorrow to see what can be done but in its present state its just humorous. JSR 0562 17:29, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

This picture looks very nice: Exxoo (talk) 17:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Queries and suggestions

• "Bell, page 96", " Bell, page 967" Which Bell are these references talking about (2 Bell books)?
• Missing page nos: Bondyopadhyay (1988), Bag (2005), Murray (1913), Forbes (1860), Linde, Antonius (1981), Wilkinson, Charles K (May 1943), Charles Whish (1835). Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland., Staal, 1999. To name a few
• Primary reference: Ṛg Veda, Book 10, 34 used. A secondary reference would be appreciated
• I see "Lal, R. (August 2001), "Thematic evolution of ISTRO: transition in scientific issues and research focus from 1955 to 2000", Soil and Tillage Research 61 (1-2): 3-12 " in "Footnotes", instead put Lal in "References". Then, "Ghosh, page 224" mising year etc. "Footnotes" should have all ref in a consistent format. Suggested format: Author_last name (year) pages xx-yy
• The lead should be expanded a bit to encompass the entire article as per Misplaced Pages:Featured list criteria. --Redtigerxyz 13:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

• Bell has been fixed, now the date is specified.
• Basically if there's no specific page number given it means that the reference in its entirety supports the cited statement. Let me explain the examples you've given

Bondyopadhyay (1988) - Bondyopadhyay's paper in its entirety is about J.C. Bose's iron-mercury-iron coherer. The name of the reference is: "Sir J. C. Bose's Diode Detector Received Marconi's First Transatlantic Wireless Signal Of December 1901 (The "Italian Navy Coherer" Scandal Revisited)". How to just pick out one page?

Bag (2005) - Again this journal publication by Bag, A. K. is a 6 page journal that deals exclusively on the subject. What's given in the article is a summary of the publication. The pages of that particular journal are given under references: 431-6.

Murray (1913) - Harold James Ruthven Murray was the first to publish the theory that chess originated in India. His publication A History of Chess is centered around that theory. How can I specify selected pages from such?

Forbes (1860) - Again Duncan Forbes' publication (The History of Chess: From the Time of the Early Invention of the Game in India Till the Period of Its Establishment in Western and Central Europe) entirely supports the theory that Chess originated in India. Again I cannot pick out one or two pages from a publication that entirely propounds that chess originated in India.

Linde, Antonius (1981) - Same as above, Van Der Linde gives an exhaustive account of his findings that chess was invented by the Hindus (Indians) and was received by the Persians.

Wilkinson, Charles K (May 1943) - same as above. The pages of the journal are given in the references section: Wilkinson, Charles K (May 1943). Chessmen and Chess. The Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin New Series 1 (9): 271–279. doi:10.2307/3257111.

Charles Whish (1835) - There was no reference to this particular name but I've checked it out and it appears to be a notable journal publication. It has been added into the references section. I'm not sure if a specific page is applicable for this one as I don't have access to it.

Stall, 1999. For this the pages of that publication in the journal are given in the references section. I'm not sure if a specific page is applicable. JSR can u please help for these 2 (170 and 183)?

• Citations to the hymn book/number from the Rig and Atharva veda were for dice and for both I provided secondary references. The sentence reads: Early references to dicing can be found in the Ṛg Veda (c. early 2nd millennium BCE) as well as the newer Atharva Veda (c. late 2nd millennium ~ early 1st millennium BCE).; whereby and are notes of the primary source i.e. book/number of the particular hymn in the Vedas while , and are secondary sources that support those statements that it is referred to in the two Vedas.
• To this I agree that the footnotes should be uniform. However page numbers, as mentioned above, aren't applicable to all. I'll move to get this done.
• Doesn't the current lead encompass the entire article? Any suggestions what more we can add?

Thanks! Exxoo (talk) 19:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Second set of comments

• Why keep things to the readers/reviewers imagination? It is better to explicitly state page numbers or some thing like Bag(2005) entire journal, entire chapter but the former is much convenient.
• Rig and Atharva veda: e.g. If "Ṛg Veda, Book 10, 34" is stated in (say) Basham (2001), page 207, then a combined ref is better: "Ṛg Veda, Book 10, 34 as stated in Basham (2001), page 207". Sanskrit books (verses, manuscripts) always do not have a uniform scheme of numbering, different scholars use different numbering.
• I insist on a std format: If the primary editors (JSR or Exxoo) can state the format: Author_last name (year) pages xx-yy or Author_last name year pages xx-yy. I can fix it.
• The lead at the moment are 2 lists of branches of study and various sciences in Republic of India . Mention of the civilizations who developed it and dates like Mohenjo-daro (2600 BCE). Fill in the blanks:" Mohenjo-daro (2600 BCE) was first to invent _____ / make significant contributions in ____. Guptas________. Mughals _____________. Modern researchers like Bose ______" --Redtigerxyz 14:42, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Later tonight I hope to complete a rewrite of education in India, an important WP:India article which requires far more attention than it has received. I have been tied up there and once the rewrite goes well I have another trip to Delhi to make by Sunday. I agree with uniform format and basically with much that has been said above by both editors. However, I request some time to answer and to try and do my bit to come up with solutions. JSR 0562 16:50, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Response to 2nd set of comments

• I agree that page numders are more convenient but if the entire book / chapter is exclusively about a statement in question (e.g. Chess was invented in India) - with all the relevant evidences etc., there is no way to give a specific page number. What is implied is that a specific publication (e.g. Bag (2005)) says that xxx was from India. Page numbers are only given when the publication does not exclusively support a statement.
• Here's an idea for the dice thingy. reads:

When we get our first literary texts in India, we find that dice-playing was a common failing of the upper classes. The Rig Veda, which we may reasonably consider to have been in its present form before 1000 B.C., has references to the use of dice, and one of its hymns (Book 10, 34) is a charm to cure an inveterate and unsuccessful gambler of the compulsion to gamble that has ruined him. In the Atharva Veda, also, gambling with dice is mentioned (2.3; 4.38; 6.118; 7.52; 7.109)

To make it less cluttered we can use just this one source for both the Rig and Atharva veda. However for the Rig Veda alone I would strongly advice to use Both and because the (Basham) reference is really good and strong, and offers a translation of the hymn about dicing/gambling. Redtigerxyz, if you have any ideas of putting it under one tag you can do so if it can earn this article better rating.

• Almost all the footnotes that I've added comply to the format as mentioned above (e.g. McIntosh (2007), page 14). The page number is included only when applicable. Redtigerxyz If you can standardise the sources to this format it would be great.
• We will jointly tackle the lead section later. Right now I'm researching for other inventions/discoveries that can be included in this list.

Regards Exxoo (talk) 17:51, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I have begun the rewrite of education in India BTW :) JSR 0562 18:11, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I am changing the references.

• I am using McIntosh (2007), page 14 format
• If two consecutive sentences have same ref, I am putting the ref at the end of the the lines, instead of having it after every sentence. --Redtigerxyz 11:56, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I strongly advice you to reconsider putting the ref at the end of the the lines, instead of having it after every sentence for sentences that have the same refs. JSR and I did that (refs after every sentence) to avoid the menace of people coming in later and without even checking the ref at the end of the lines, add a tag, which if unattended to by a Wikipedian who has access to the references (which are mostly books), will cause its deletion. This is all too common on Misplaced Pages and being a more experienced user u should know. JSR has also voiced his concern on this issue which was earlier raised my Mdw0. See towards the very end of the page. In fact even the List of Chinese inventions which is a featured list has it this way (i.e. refs at the end of each sentence). Exxoo (talk) 17:57, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

You dont need to be scared of unwarranted tags - just delete them like you would any other ill-considered edit, and advise to discuss here. This article too well guarded for the above fears to be an issue., especially when its at the expense of the readability of the text. Excessive citation is just as irritating as the odd tag. The standard way to cite references is at the end of a paragraph if all the information in the paraagraph is from the same source. Mdw0 (talk) 06:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Earliest furnace, reference 64.

Not to split hairs, but the town of Balakot, where the furnace was discovered was in Pakistan.

---

The earliest furnace was excavated at Balakot, a site of the Indus Valley Civilization, dating back to its mature phase (c. 2500-1900 BC). The furnace was most likely used for the manufacturing of ceramic objects.

---

Balakot (Urdu: بالاکوٹ), is a town in Mansehra District in the North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan.

--- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.238.184.72 (talk) 11:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

why many Arab inventions be claimed by other nations ?

the facts are europe used almost all Arab/Moslem Inventions in history, why now many claims around the world like india, china etc that some Arab Inventions were origins from india or china....how can you prove that ? we only knew that europe got sciences from Arab/Moslem in Islamic golden age, and India got influences too from Arab culture and sciences...i did not see any indian influences in Arab countries but Arab influences were spred around the world. so how you can prove indian gave sciences influences to Arab ? I said proves not claims. OK ! like the invention of "Zero" and the notation of numeral that we used today, as far as i know Arab got Zero Concept from the word "Zarro" from verse in Koran that means ( very small number/thing ) and then adopted as zero number, and now why it claimed as indian inventions...HOW come ? europe got many many things from Arab/moslem....if u indian had many inventions before then u should got indian golden age than Arab/islamic did but the facts are sciences and inventions were produced in Islamic golden ages...thats all.

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shatree (talk • contribs) 12:34, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

It cuts both ways - there was adaptaion of inventions from Europe in Asia and vice versa. Also, new technology is based on current technology, and the history of invention has many instances of concurrent inventions and discoveries in different areas of the world at the same time. That's why lists of inventions such as these need to be so stringently referenced, indicating the item was first invented or used at this time in this place, and then its up to other editors to disprove its value in the list with other references. Also, dont forget that millions of Muslims live and have lived in India. Just becuase etymology links something back to the Qur'an that doesnt mean it was invented in Arabia and not India. As to scientific 'golden ages' it could be argued that India has had several. Mdw0 (talk) 01:14, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Universe

The claim that of the "The earliest known philosophical models of the universe are found in the Vedas, the earliest texts on Indian philosophy and Hindu philosophy dating back to the late 2nd millennium BC." is rather fanciful. First it is unsourced. Only the last two sentences of this entry are sourced, and these concern atomism, not the universe. So those two sentences should be moved to the atomism entry, and a cn tag should be added to the entry on the "universe". Athenean (talk) 05:39, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

OK Mdw0 (talk) 01:19, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Good article nomination

A list cannot be a "good article" according to the good article criteria. The only process that would assess this list would be featured lists, but you may want to seek a peer review first for extra guidance. Bencherlite 08:11, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Indian?

Many of the historical inventions listed here are not strictly "Indian" at all; Mohenjo-daro is a site which existed along the Indus River in the Sindh province of modern-day Pakistan, and is an extremely important archaeological site of the country. And Muslin originated in Dhaka, modern-day Bangladesh. It would be a distortion to attribute some of these findings under India. I think the title of this article should be changed from "List of Indian inventions and discoveries" to something like "List of inventions and discoveries in the Indian subcontinent". Or something like that. Once this is done, the scope of this article should be extended to WikiProject Pakistan and WikiProject Bangladesh. The reason why 'Indian subcontinent' should be used in place of 'India' is basically as following:

The Republic of India only has a recent political history and emerged in 1947. Meanwhile, this India is an ancient land which has existed since thousands of years, and encompassed a much wider region. In historical context, the term "Ancient India" does not mean today's India; it means the subcontinent which has always consisted of the modern-day republics of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh (the history of these three countries are intertwined). Please express your comments and thoughts about what you think, here; Mar4d (talk) 08:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

The term Indian here does not mean Republic of India but the region known as India (we've had a similar discussion on the naming of History of India). Reliable sources including those from over two thousand years ago to until the actual split to two and subsequently to three countries refer to the region itself as India so I don't see a problem. As to the other point on whether this should come under WP:Pakistan and WP:Bangladesh, the answer is a clear yes, and I'll add them right now. —SpacemanSpiff 08:50, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

also would point out that ancestors of Pakistanis and Bangladeshis were all Indian ( vast majority being Hindus/Buddhists prior to the islamic invasion/colonisation of the subcontinent). so any invention that originated in the subcontinent prior to 1947 can legitimately be called Indian. Unlike the countries of Pakistan and Bangladesh which came into being in 1947 and 1971 respectively the subcontinent has been called India for much longer time and its residents Indian.--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:21, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Sadly, this is a fantasy page. Two-thirds of the claims are bogus. It needs to be deleted or moved to the humor Misplaced Pages.

PS. BTW, increasingly historians in the US and Europe are using "South Asia" for the pre-1947 history. Claiming that Indians invented the dental drill, when it was found in Mehrgarh, whose discovery and excavation was due to French and Pakistani archeologists in the 1970s, and which lies in the Kachi plane of Baluchistan, is a little ludicrous. Baluchistan became a part of British Indian empire only in the 1870s. Before that, most "Indian" empires did not include Baluchistan. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:35, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

PPS Indians invented:

• Angina pectoris (before the Indian invention, people who had heart attacks died symptomless)
• C-section (i.e. Caesarean-Section, had Julius Caesar's mother known Sushurata, she could have been saved)
• Circulatory system (William Harvey read Charaka's secret diaries in the library in Taxila),
• Diabetes (until the Indian invention, humans lived entirely on desserts)
• Hypertension (the stress of so much inventing, created hypertension;
• Obesity. Before the Indian invention of obesity, there were no couches or potatoes, which had to be both invented by Indians as well. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:22, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Really. the inventions which cannot be verified need to be removed. If you are trying to imply that their are no inventions that can be credited to Indians then you are the one living in fantasy world. Who the fuck cares about what a handful of European and US historians are starting to call the region ?? what counts is what > 1 billion Indians think and believe.--Wikireader41 (talk) 16:18, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

condom not mentioned

It's known to be an Indian discovery. Sushrutha prescribed squirrel skin to be worn on the penis as protection against unwanted pregnancy. This fact is strangely missing from the list. --117.204.94.115 (talk) 15:09, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

That would have made it the first green condom. Zuggernaut (talk) 15:38, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

• List-Class India articles
• High-importance India articles
• List-Class India articles of High-importance
• WikiProject India articles
• List-Class Pakistan articles
• Unknown-importance Pakistan articles
• WikiProject Pakistan articles
• List-Class Bangladesh articles
• Unknown-importance Bangladesh articles
• WikiProject Bangladesh articles