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Reckless driving

The reckless driving conviction is hardly notable. She was not found guilty of possessing pot, her lawyer said it was left there by friends. Clearly marginal trivia in terms of WP:BLP. It's only notable because the national press has picked up on it and the story is all over the wire for 12 hours. Had this happened in 1998 pre-Misplaced Pages, it would have never been included in this article by later editors. 71.191.137.121 (talk) 04:09, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Left there by a "friend". Yes, well... In any case it didn't happen in 1998, it is in the national news media, and it is notable. Live with it. Proxy User (talk) 21:28, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Proxy User, your tone seems kind of hostile. I'm not sure why. The IP user above seems to be expressing what he or she sees as a legitimate BLP concern. Although this event may have been deemed "newsworthy" in the present, only time will tell how "notable" these events will be in the broader context of Wells' career. At present there appears to be a WP:WEIGHT concern that needs to be addressed. In order to present a balanced picture, a disproportionate amount of text in the biography of this LIVING ACTRESS is devoted to marijuana. Seems cause for WP:BLP concerns to me. Cleo123 (talk) 07:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Yor addition to the Wells article is excessively POV. I don't mind including material that indicates Wells lawyers disagree with the rulering, but the article is not a Forums For Rebuttal. If you rewite it, I will not object to it. But otherwise, I will rewrite it.

Also, as to your comments in the discussion, hostility has nothing to do with it. This is not an article about Wells' career, it's a biography of an individual and therefor includes information about more than Wells career. Proxy User (talk) 07:35, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

POV? I have presented Well's side of the story, in the interest of balance and fairness to a living person. I strongly disagree with your interpretation of the article's purpose. This is NOT the biography of a private individual - Misplaced Pages is not intended to include such biographies. Wells' biography is included on this forum because she is NOTABLE as an actress. The article's primary focus should pertain to her notability, not minor incidents in her private life - such as traffic stops. Misplaced Pages is not a tabloid. It is an encyclopedia. Cleo123 (talk) 07:42, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

BTW, saying that she was sentanced to jail time, when she wasn't seems to violate WP:LIBEL. Cleo123 (talk) 02:07, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

She ***WAS*** sentenced to jail time. It was suspended. POINT OF FACT. Please move on.

Honestly, do you understand how silly it sounds for you to claim this idea of FIRST three hitchhikers might have left the drugs and THEN maybe it was some guy she loaned the car to? Do you really want the article to explore these "facts"? All I've done is include *FACTS* from police reports. But hey, if you want to go into this absurd story, maybe we should. Proxy User (talk) 04:09, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Dude, it's not up to you to decide if her story is right or wrong. Seriously, you sound like judge and jury - she's guilty in your eyes, and your going to write the Misplaced Pages article to that effect. Wonderful. 71.191.137.121 (talk) 04:22, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

"Dude", it **IS** up to any editor such as me to call out OBVIOUS POV and NON FACTUAL CONTENT. The information I have added comes from police reports and the Associated Press. The information that Cleo123 added is emotional NPOV rebuttal from Wells' lawyer (and quoted from a questionable source). Sorry, but you are simply wrong, "dude". This is not the proper forum for Wells and her friends to rebut known established facts as documented in available legal documents. If Cleo123 wished to include the comments from Wells lawyer, it needs to be rewritten in a non-POV slanted way. If you don't like it, you can ask for mediation. "Dude".

Some other notes:

• Wells was *in fact* sentenced to 5 days in jail - suspended, but none the less sentenced.
• DUI charges where *in fact* reduced to reckless driving through a plea agreement.
• Wells did *in fact* suggest that some mysterious hitchhikers (who oddly could not be located in rural Idaho) before changing her story that someone she loaned her car to had left the pot.
• Wells was *in fact* fined $410.50. Relatively small, yes. But fined none the less.

The facts are not in dispute, and are supported by official police and court documents. Wells can claim in entertainment news interviews anything she wished, but ultimatly what is fact is in the police and court reports. Proxy User (talk) 22:47, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Please, provide links to the official police reports and court documents which you are citing. Are you saying that her attorney is "lying" when he issues an official statement saying there was no plea agreement? You seem very insistent that "DUI charges were REDUCED". Her lawyer, who is, in FACT, an officer of the court has stated the the charges were DROPPED. There is quite a difference. Please, share links to the court documents and police reports that you've examined in your determination of FACTS. And for the record, I have no affiliation with Dawn Wells. Such baseless allegations are inappropriate and IMO, less than civil. Cleo123 (talk) 02:15, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I didn't say her lawyer was "lying". The official documents don't say there was no plea agreement. The DUI charges where dropped in a plea agreement to reckless driving. If you have no connection to Dawn Wells, where do you get your "information"? The facts are contained in court documents linked in the article and legitimate news sources.

If you go back over what I've said here, you will NOTE that I don't object to including Wells' lawyer's opinion. What I said was your wording of it was overly POV and it should be rewritten. If you had done that, there would be no dispute. (And I never would have found that interesting Bob Denver connection, but now it's there!) Proxy User (talk) 18:22, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

pot connection to bob denver

Bob said she mailed him pot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/Bob_Denver --Capsela (talk) 04:42, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Added the reference. Proxy User (talk) 00:16, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

POV Tag on Marijuana

Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved.

It is my opinion that this paragraph is POV rebuttal, and while there is some information that might be included in a NPOV biography, it needs to be rewritten in a less POV style. Proxy User (talk) 16:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Even if this Marijuana incidents are noteworthy it hardly merits the amount of space (and details) that are current in the article. It reads like someone has an unhealthy fixation with this one aspect of her life.War (talk) 04:49, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

That's why I wrote the very simple and straight forward second paragraph. It's all that is needed. Proxy User (talk) 05:26, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Another Paragraph needed?

Is it me? Or does this article seem to jump from "Early Life and Career" to "Post Gilligan's Island Career"? LOL! Seems to me as if we may have missed the "meat of the matter" in this article. A "Gilligan's Island Section" might be nice, as that is what she's notable for. Anyone want to take a stab at it? Cleo123 (talk) 00:57, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

That's a great idea. There isn't much about her other television / movie / stage work, nor really much about her theater group in Idaho. I also think a paragraph on her clothing business should be developed. Proxy User (talk) 21:31, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Completely agree. I'd do it, but I no longer have a copy, for instance of Inside Gilligan's Island. Someone? Piano non troppo (talk) 05:47, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Marijuana Incident

It is relevant, referenced, and appropriate. Proxy User (talk) 03:09, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Creating an entire section called "Marijuana" is unnecessary, inappropriate and places undue weight on minor incidents in her life. It's not going to be allowed. The version of the arrest incident you keep reverting to is also unacceptable, as it omits key sourced facts and statements about the arrest, charges, plea and sentence. FCYTravis (talk) 03:12, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Concur with FCYTravis. Kelly 03:19, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

First, it is not a minor incident. Second, it is not a singular incident. Third, it was covered extensively in the international news media. Forth, there was almost NO discussion here prior to removal or your unilateral and unjust abuse of power of locking the article.

Fifth, I've filed a Request For Mediation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/Dawn_Wells

Proxy User (talk) 03:22, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

It certainly is a "minor incident." Mediation request rejected, no sense wasting my time with that. Go file an RfC first. FCYTravis (talk) 03:26, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Your actions here show strong bias. Why do you fear Mediation? Such dishonesty from an Admin. Proxy User (talk) 03:32, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

I would caution you against implying that an Administator is "dishonest" - as that could be construed as a personal attack. FCYTravis should be applauded for the incredible patience and restraint he has exercised in this matter. I suspect that many admins might have blocked you for edit warring on the article. Instead, he has tried to teach you something here, and I would suggest you listen to him.

The fact that something receives news coverage of a tabloid nature in the short term does not make it significant in the long term, larger picture of a person's career. In creating your own "Marijuana Section", you have thrown the article out of balance, creating a WP:WEIGHT issue. Dawn Wells is notable for her work as an actress (that's why her bio exists on Misplaced Pages). Traffic stops for petty offenses do not warrant the amount of space and attention you seem to be pushing for. Whether you realize it or not, your version seems to paint this woman as a pothead and a criminal. You've stated very clearly that you object to her side of the story being presented. Presenting only one side of the story is WP:POV pushing. Please, re-read WP:BLP, as well as WP:HARM. Whether you realize it or not, I believe you are being terribly unfair to Ms. Wells. Cleo123 (talk) 04:06, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, you are right. I am very strongly biased against filling people's biographies with tabloid gossip, rumors, speculation and scandal. I am proud to have such a bias. FCYTravis (talk) 03:37, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

What do you FEAR from Mediation? I've removed you. I still want a look by an UNBIASED Admin. Proxy User (talk) 03:42, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Proxy User, as I explained to you before on my talk page, mediation is inappropriate at this juncture. An RFC might be more appropriate. However, I would encourage you to heed FCYTravis' advice and drop this matter. Your version violates WP:BLP, WP:HARM and WP:WEIGHT. At least two members of the Biography Project have offered you guidance in this matter. When multiple users disagree with you, and nobody steps up to support your POV - one needs to entertain the possibility that perhaps they've misinterpretted policy.

FCYTravis has nothing to "fear" from mediation, or you. He's been an absolute "Gent" - and I wouldn't attempt to push his buttons if I were you. I will reject your request for mediation. Cleo123 (talk) 04:17, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Edit Bullies

Something wierd is going on. I removed a redundant section (It was an EXACT COPY of the wording from another section. This is a very valid and encouraged practice in all article. Then I MOVED a paragraph from one section to another that to me made more logical sense. This resulted in Proxy User suggesting that I am involved in an EDIT WAR on my talk page. I think everyone should know (just look at the page history) that this is happening so that they can consider carefully Proxy User's, point of view on this article.

For the record I don't have much knowledge of Dawn Well's. I only try to made edits so that the structure, logic, and principles of Misplaced Pages are preserved. Please look at my edits of this articles page to see if you think I'm being reasonable. War (talk) 07:32, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Revert (2/24/09)

I reverted the page to eliminate the "Statement of Facts from Dawn" that was added two days ago. If any of this material is true, it needs to be sourced, and integrated into the article in an encyclopedic manner, not just appended to the article in the form of a very un-NPOV personal statement. Nothing personal -- I happen to be a big fan of Ms. Wells -- but this is an online encyclopedia, not a website for publishing press releases. If whoever posted that "statement" (whether Ms. Wells herself, or some publicist) can cite sources, and make any needed updates or corrections in the proper manner, it would be most welcome. StanislavJ (talk) 00:35, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

The anon IP who wrote this material made no other contribution to Wiki. At a guess, whoever wrote it is unaware of this discussion page, or generally of the Wiki guidelines. So we've lost the opportunity to get confirmation. Given that there's a reasonable chance Wells or someone representing her did write the material, I'm including it here for reference.

UPDATE: Statement of Facts from Dawn

The media statements concerning the Driggs Idaho charge against Dawn Wells are extremely inaccurate and erroneous. A third party had possession of Dawn's car during the entire day, and placed a small amount of marijuana in the vehicle without her knowledge .Dawn attended her surprise birthday party that evening, with a number of individuals each of whom verified Dawn had only two drinks in a three to four hour period. Dawn left the party to drive home and was stopped by an inexperienced officer only because she weaved while reaching for her heater controls in an unfamiliar new car.

There was no plea bargain with regard to the marijuana. The state dismissed the marijuana charge as a result of a third party appearing before the court independently and accepted full and exclusive responsibility for the existence of the marijuana.

The DUI charge was reduced to reckless driving because of insufficient proof of excessive alcohol consumption. The officer acknowledged in his written report that there was no odor of alcohol, no slurred speech or any indication of impaired memory. Unfortunately the inexperienced officer failed to properly administer any appropriate field tests which would have established Dawns sobriety. This officer was subsequently placed and remains on suspension from all law enforcement duties.

Dawn Wells accepted responsibility for her driving neglect by pleading guilty to reckless driving because she felt she was in fact guilty of not devoting appropriate attention to her driving while searching for the heater controls.

Contrary to news coverage, Dawn was not required to serve any jail term

for her driving offense. She received the typical Idaho sentence for her driving offense given to all who commit the offense, i.e. a fine and informal probation. The sentencing Judge often requires jail time, but found that unnecessary under Dawn's circumstances. Informal probation simply requires she pay the fine and commit no other offenses.

Due to Dawn's cooperation, integrity and complete lack of criminal record, this charge will not appear on her driving record. The court granted her the courtesy of a "withheld judgment".

This is a very humiliating and embarrassing event for Ms. Wells.

She wishes to apologize to her friends and supporters for any embarrassment or disappointment this occurrence may have caused.

Piano non troppo (talk) 05:40, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

More about marijuana incident

This seems to be out of balance with the rest of the article per WP:UNDUE and it is the most discussed topic on this talk page, although I note that there are several editors who have commented against it and one who has argued in favour of keeping it. It's sourced etc, and I appreciate that, but I think it's still a minor incident that is given a major bias. Bob Denver later recanted his comment, and no reason is given why he recanted it. If it was false, it has no bearing on Dawn Wells, so it does not belong here. Her driving incident is discussed in detail and somebody else took responsibility. Then we have a comment that Associated Press had reported something that "was later found to be false." I don't understand why we mention it. At the end of the long section it boils down to the conclusion that Wells was not charged in relation to the marijuana, but with reckless driving, and no offense was recorded, although no source is provided for this. Rossrs (talk) 00:41, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Just another point - WP:BLP is a concern here. Quoting and supporting 'facts' is one thing, but the overall result is crucial - the undue weight given presents a bias that we should look at carefully in terms of BLP. My opinion is that BLP should at the very least require that this section be pared down to the most basic, supported fact and that it not be spotlighted by being placed in its own section, but given the relative unimportance of the event, I would prefer it be removed completely. Rossrs (talk) 00:54, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

I absolutely agree with your assessment, Rossrs. There is no reason for a short term allegation by Denvers to appear in the article and I have removed that. It's also quite unclear that the rest of it should be here at all either. What was added today is unreferenced and I removed it and edited the paragraph only to reflect what sources provided in the paragraph indicate. Frankly, this comes down to a traffic violation and is not notable in the career of this individual. Wildhartlivie (talk) 04:02, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree there is undue emphasis. With media stars, Wiki tends to degrade into gossip, presumably because it's easier for editors read free references from online Associated Press articles, than to read a hardcopy of Inside Gilligan's Island.

But particularly with this article, my overall take was "That's all she did?" Why describe it at all, except perhaps to refute popular rumors. The allegation by Denvers seemed to imply that he mistakenly implicated Wells, then lied to keep her out of it. That might be make for an interesting sentence or two in a full-length biography -- of Denvers -- but the innuendo that he and Wells were still friends, that they were both marijuana users doesn't enhance Misplaced Pages's encyclopedic content. Piano non troppo (talk) 05:33, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Proxy User, there is clear agreement above that the Denver claim isn't relevant here and was removed, that was not a "large section", it was two sentences. You've not bothered to post a comment here, but instead flatly reverted what I edited and called it vandalism, which is bad faith and unfounded. Regardless, I edited the section, removing a small amount of unsourced content added and added sourcing for the statement from Wells' attorney. This is a WP:BLP issue, which is a serious consideration and your reversion was both a bad faith claim and in no way adhered to WP:BLP. Wildhartlivie (talk) 22:30, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

It's not clear to me why the Denver comment was removed. And the newer incedent which is a matter of public record can certainly not be argued away as not being properly sourced. Proxy User (talk) 00:56, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

User:Proxy User. Your edits and their summaries suggest bad faith and bullying tactics. You do not have the right to call my edit, or any edit, vandalism just because you disagree with it. You should not be directing people to WP:OWN, when this talk page is full of you forcing your view onto anyone who disagrees. You should not be suggesting users be aware of WP:3RR as this is not a contest to see which version is standing after the 3rd revert. Several people have given opinions as to why this information should not be presented in its current format. I am removing it as a violation of WP:BLP and for that reason the discussion needs to be "should the material be added?", not "should the material be removed?" Please accept this as a good faith action, because although I do not have any great interest in Dawn Wells' reputation, I care greatly about Misplaced Pages's reputation, and this kind of tabloidish approach makes us all look bad. I'm not saying it's a done deal, but it's only fair that someone independent and unbiased looks at it, and with that aim I have posted a comment at Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Dawn Wells. Rossrs (talk) 10:18, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

It is *laughable* to describe my discussion here as "bullying tactics" while ignoring a certain Admin/Editor who should remove himself as a matter of conflict of interest, and has certainly been throwing his weight around on a very intimidating way. My discussion here, as well, is not "bad faith" whatever nonsense that might actually mean. I have an opinion, and I'm arguing it, rather than threatening other editors with admin action, as a certain other editor is. Proxy User (talk) 00:56, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Marijuana arrest

Okay, so when I looked at this article there was no mention of her arrest at all. I agree that it shouldn't be given undue weight, but it's ridiculous that it not even be in the article. It was newsworthy, and is well-sourced. I restored an older paragraph about it–go ahead and edit it if you can improve it, but don't just delete it.—Chowbok ☠ 01:02, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

You restored a section that clearly violates WP:BLP. Wells was not convicted of a marijuana charge, she was convicted of a traffic violation. Any content implying otherwise is a clear violation and clearly exposes Misplaced Pages to a libel charge. This has been addressed at WP:BLP/N more than once here, here and finally here, where the facts of the case regarding what amounts to a traffic conviction is being given improper weight with this content. Her "arrest" was ultimately a traffic stop. Wildhartlivie (talk) 02:29, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not convinced. It was covered widely and is public information. If you think it's libelous, then change it so it isn't. It can't be libelous to say that she was arrested, that there was marijuana in the car, and that she pled guilty to reckless driving, because even her lawyer concedes those facts on her official website. As I said before, it shouldn't be given undue weight, but that's not the same as saying it shouldn't be mentioned at all. And despite your implication, we do cover traffic stops.

I'm restoring the paragraph, which strikes me as even-handed and well-sourced. If you disagree with that, or think it gives undue weight or is libelous, then by all means edit it, but it should not be removed completely.—Chowbok ☠ 04:58, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

And once again, I have taken this to WP:BLP/N#Dawn Wells once again and am fully prepared to open a full request for comments about this or take it to ArbCom if necessary. Opinion was rendered on this on WP:BLP/N and returning this content to the article is a blatant thumb the nose at those opinions. This has long been a settled issue here and you are giving no rationale that is acceptable in order to post what amounts to detrimental content based on something that is no longer a valid issue. Wildhartlivie (talk) 06:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry that you're not willing to work towards a consensus on this. "My way or the highway" is not a terribly productive attitude. I don't think those BLP opinions settled the issue, as most of them were about a previous revision that gave undue weight to the charge. There is a grand total of one person who agreed with you completely, and that hardly makes it a settled matter. I'm happy to have this on BLP/N, but please stop with the revert wars in the meantime. How about if you devote your energies instead to creating a compromise paragraph that addresses your concerns? —Chowbok ☠ 06:48, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

There is no compromise when you add content that brands someone a drug user and implies they were convicted of the same. You may not think that WP:BLP is a concern, but in that you are terribly wrong. I'd remind you that "revert wars" don't happen in a vaccuum, your insistence on returning libellous content is a huge issue. As I said, I'm prepared to take all the way through ArbCom if necessary. Stop adding libellous content to this article and in fact, contains facts that the link you posted at WP:BLP/N disputes facts in this article. Wildhartlivie (talk) 07:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The compromise would be to edit the added material so that it is no longer libelous, not remove it completely. You seem quite uninterested in addressing my points. Oh well, let's see what happens at WP:BLP/N#Dawn Wells once again. (P.S., Can you try to avoid further canvassing?)—Chowbok ☠ 07:12, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

There is nothing improper about notifying someone who previously commented on this issue that it once again has come up, despite how you would like to spin it. Please stop stalking my edits in the mean time and stop casting negative aspersions on a notification that complies with WP:CANVAS. Wildhartlivie (talk) 07:50, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

As per BLP, I've removed the material again. I agree with the discussion(s) above, it seems quite undue to include the information. Dayewalker (talk) 07:08, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough, we'll leave it off until the matter is settled there. I'd feel better if you would specifically address my points, however.—Chowbok ☠ 07:12, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Sure, there's no parallel between Wells' traffic stop and Mel Gibson's, in terms of notability or long-term impact. Dayewalker (talk) 07:19, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I see it a problem of relevance more than anything. When you boil the whole section down, she's shown to have committed a traffic violation and everything else is negated. I question the relevance of including any mention of it. We've got a fairly minor actress, known mainly for one acting role that she played more than 40+ years ago, involved in an incident the circumstances of which are not crystal clear, but that had little impact on her life or career, was reported briefly and legitimately, though not necessarily widely, at the time it happened, and for which she received a slap on the wrist. There's no comparison to the high profile of Mel Gibson and the reporting of his scrapes with the law, good judgement and common sense, which are a series of events rather than Wells' one possible deviation from what otherwise seems to have been a blameless life. Mel and Dawn are not on an even playing field. Wells' incident seems like a non-event to me, and I think if we look at the intent of WP:BLP rather than following it to the very letter, we should be considering whether the information being reported is relevant enough to justify the possible damage it could do to the person. There's too much innuendo and suggestion in the information as presented, and not enough fact, and because the relevance is so shaky, I don't think we should reintroduce it to the article. The whole incident comes under WP:UNDUE as far as I'm concerned, and that's also the main thrust of

From WP:BLPN: I don't think this merits any mention at all. It is a minor, slightly embarassing incident which could only possibly merit inclusion if it was shown to have some sort of long-term significance for the subject. Rd232 12:41, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The "marijuana incident" was removed by an editor that has taken WP:OWN of this article, and ignores the fact that it was a notable incident reported on the national media. Good for Wells that she has a powerful Misplaced Pages editor willing to enforce bias in her Wiki article. But it's still censoring out an event that falls well inside the notability standard. =//= Proxy User (talk) 18:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Try to be a little more creative with your accusations, Proxy User. You ended up having this taken to WP:BLP/N on three different occasions and it was overruled, even with one time suggesting that you be blocked. Please refrain from making bad faith accusations and casting aspersions on persons because they clearly do not agree with you. The comments here and at WP:BLP/N aren't with you. Wildhartlivie (talk) 18:48, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

You're being offensivly heavyhanded, Wildhartlivie. I understand you have a lot of power here, this doesn't mean you should abuse it. Seriously, your tone is quite nasty. Proxy User (talk) 20:28, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, on two of those occasions, as I keep pointing out and you keep ignoring, the focus simply on whether it should get its own section, not whether it should be excluded or not. I wonder how seriously to take WP:BLP/N discussions anyhow, when you're doing things like going around calling in favors in an attempt to rig the discussion.—Chowbok ☠ 18:59, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

(OD) This discussion seems to have taken a personal turn. I also reverted the addition of the section, and I don't believe I've ever edited this article before. Let's please focus on the issue at hand, as WHL isn't the only editor who opposes the addition of the material. Dayewalker (talk) 19:08, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I didn't mean to imply there aren't good faith reasons to oppose the addition. Just pointing out some questionable behavior.—Chowbok ☠ 19:15, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I understand, but if you think there's questionable behavior going on, please report it at the appropriate noticeboard. Bringing it up in the middle of a conversation on an article talk page doesn't accomplish anything. Dayewalker (talk) 19:22, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Chowbok, you have taken a very personal bend here. I notified two editors, both of whom have commented on this before and whom I happen to know have not changed thier opinion on this. Then you followed around my edits to post personal messages on not one, not two, but three different talk pages, to the point that myself and one of those persons have told you to stop posting on their talk pages. Try to grasp that nothing inappropriate was done here and try for a change arguing your points on their merits, not making personal attacks or casting aspersions. That will not win you favor in this discussion, nor will it persuade anyone to agree with you. Proxy User, you started your first post here today with an attack upon editors who have removed this as an example of ownership, censorship and claiming that Wells has personal emissaries who enforce bias. Stating rhat your own conduct was commented upon to recommend a block and that you ultimately were blocked for violating WP:BLP on this article is neither heavyhanded nor nasty. It's the truth and that conduct is absolutely germane to any accusations you care to levy here against anyone. Almost two years have passed and the tune remains the same. You have been blocked for a bias in editing on this article and repeatedly denied a request to be unblocked by various adminstrators, all of whom you also accused of bias. In weighing your comments, it's germane that other editors who might post here should know that. If that is heavyhanded or nasty, then so be it. It doesn't erase the history. Wildhartlivie (talk) 06:08, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I have made no personal attacks, on you or anyone else. I simply pointed out actions you took in violation of Misplaced Pages policy. —Chowbok ☠ 15:50, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

No, on what you contend was violations, not of policy but of guidelines. And once more, please try to base your arguments on the merits of your position, not in trying to wage war against other editors. As I said, you are not winning point here. Wildhartlivie (talk) 00:46, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

If the content of this article were based on the merits of the content (in consideration of Misplaced Pages guidelines), the notable pot indecent would be included in some form or another, rather than having been censored by one particular editor with a POV. Discussion about including this content are usually responded to with "Wikilawyering" and threats to have the offending party brought up on charges in some Admin forum or another - quite frankly, very undignified behaivior. Proxy User (talk) 01:48, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

In case you missed it, Proxy User, the content was removed by more than one editor, the last one of which you reverted, calling it vandalism. This content has been challenged under WP:BLP, and as such is correctly and rightly removed. There is no notable pot "indecent" here, there was a minor traffic conviction and your insistence on characterizing it as a marijuana incident is both biased, pointy and inappropriate. Revert this again and you will be taken to WP:AN/I for your actions. It is both wrong and improper to revert an administrator on grounds of vandalism when his actions were based on just cause. The opinions are agaisnt you on this as they have been for several months. Wildhartlivie (talk) 02:20, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

What is it with you and you exceptionally offensive and overbearing tone? Good grief! Are you incapable of dealing with people in a civil way? Your attitude and tone are not conducive to rational discussion of the subject at hand. I see you are also using your "status" as an Administrator to intimidate. Proxy User (talk) 05:45, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

That goes to show what you see. I am not an administrator, nor have I represented myself to be one, nor am I trying to intimidate. However, I am bothering to challenge your false assumptions and improper actions. That you bothered to revert an administrator has not gone unnoticed, was reverted and you reverted it again. Reverting content removed as a WP:BLP is improper and a bad decision, especially considering you've been blocked for inappropriateness regarding this topic on this article before. The administrator you accused of vandalism has reverted you again. Please do not continue to edit war against a valid content removal. So far, there has been no rational discussion here, only a drive to include deceiving content in violation of a basic Misplaced Pages tenet. Wildhartlivie (talk) 06:07, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

(EC) If I may interrupt the personal comments here, Proxy User, what's different about this time you're trying to insert this material than the previous times? The points made above seem sound, as it was a minor traffic violation. Consensus has been gained here, and the most recent BLP discussion (were there others) also seems to agree. What's changed? Dayewalker (talk) 06:08, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh for crying out loud! Consensus was already established that this content does not belong in the article. If two people disagree with that consensus, I suggest one or both of them take the necessary steps to either gain a new consensus or just accept the fact that the community disagrees with the inclusion of this particular bit of information. In other words, stop edit warring and bickering like children and move on. Pinkadelica 21:47, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Was "consensus" really established? Or did one editor intimidate alternate views until those people gave up? And, is "consensus" relevant if the content meets certain standards of notability? There is some content that there may never be a "consensus" about that is none the less relevant enough for inclusion. I am not convinced there ever was "consensus". I know that several supporters of inclusion (rather than exclusion) simply became tired of subtle threats and "Wikilawyering". "Consensus" is not the final word. Relevancy of content is. Proxy User (talk) 00:50, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I think a non-involved party should evaluate the issue in a formal process, though I suspect there are some here who would fight that. Proxy User (talk) 00:59, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

On this talk page, the most consistent supporter of inclusion has been you. User:Chowbok's recent comments support your view, but everyone else has spoken of either reducing or removing the content. There are not "several supporters of inclusion." As for the "one editor intimidate", I see about half a dozen who have commented in favour of reduction or exclusion, so it has not been one editor trying to force a minority viewpoint. The same thing has happened when it's been taken to WP:BLP/N. You ask "is "consensus" relevant if the content meets certain standards of notability?", and I think the answer to that question is yes, however a major part of the discussion relates to whether it meets the standard of notability. That's the point on which several editors have said, no it's doesn't. I don't mind if a non-involved party evaluates this issue again. It's been taken to WP:BLP/N at least three times before, so if you decide to seek other viewpoints, just let us know where you take the question to. Rossrs (talk) 01:16, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Proxy User, your personal attacks and slurs are growing extremely tiresome. First you accused me of throwing around my administrator status, all the while not even realizing I'm not an administrator, then you proceeded to twice revert an administrator who rightly removed this content under the auspices of WP:BLP. You've been blocked from Misplaced Pages because of BLP violations you committed on this page. It is time for you to stop dragging in your own personal baggage to this discussion. Four trips to WP:BLP/N have brought the same results, everyone commenting here with the exception of your bad faith accusations and posts by Chowbok have been against including this content. What do you have against Dawn Wells that you think it is pertinent to inflate what amounts to a traffic conviction into a "marijuana indecent"? How does that enhance this encyclopedia or how does that further the notability of a 2nd rate television actress? What is it going to take to make you dial back your personal attacks? Another block? A WP:RfC/U that recommends your topic ban from this article? Stop attacking other editors and grow up, as Pinkadelica said. It's time to stop trying to snow this talk page with bad faith accusations and accept that the opinion tide is against you. Wildhartlivie (talk) 05:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

It is quite difficult to disengage from a disagreement about inclusion/exclusion that looks like it has devolved into a person attack/personal defense situation. I would have great respect for the parties who can ignore the perceived personal attacks upon them and direct their discussion to the reasons why the arrest, driving conviction, and marijuana involvement, to the extent that any occurred or not, should be included in the article. I would normally leave my name with a posting. I have never posted anything related to Dawn Wells, nor am I a sock puppet for anyone now who now is, or was ever, engaged in this discussion. I am posting this here with my IP as the signature.

You all should know why I am posting in this barely anonymous manner. Ask yourself this: would you advise me to weigh in with support of the opposing viewpoint? You would likely tell me that I should not, based upon your assessment that the parties (I do not view anyone to be alone on their side) opposing you are engaged in improper, and perhaps personal, attacks/actions against you, to which I could then be subjected.--75.4.215.55 (talk) 04:01, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Philadelphia Boat Show

This article should state the year of her appearance at the Philadelphia Boat Show. An undated article appeared in the Philadelphia Citypaper saying that she would appear at the Philadelphia Boat Show on Saturday, February 8. If that is correct, it would be 1997 or 2003. However, that article appeared in 2000, as can be seen by and . So, either "Saturday, February 8" is wrong, or the comment that she will appear was added later for a 2003 appearance. —Anomalocaris (talk) 18:11, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

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