Talk:Glenn Beck: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 02:58, 15 January 2010 editJoshuaingram (talk \| contribs)922 editsm moved new section to bottom of page...seriously, is the top part of the page that hard to read before you comment?← Previous edit		Revision as of 03:06, 15 January 2010 edit undoJoshuaingram (talk \| contribs)922 edits →Was this article written by Beck or something: are you shitting me?Next edit →
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	==Was this article written by Beck or something==		==Was this article written by Beck or something==
	Seriously. The man is clearly deranged. He spouts conspiracy theories, and over half the country makes fun of him for it. But based on the article, you'd think he was someone respected by political philosophers or something. When is reality going to intrude on this article? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:41, 15 January 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->		Seriously. The man is clearly deranged. He spouts conspiracy theories, and over half the country makes fun of him for it. But based on the article, you'd think he was someone respected by political philosophers or something. When is reality going to intrude on this article? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:41, 15 January 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			:The real question is, why do people have such stupid biases? It seems like every other day there is some idiot bitching about the fact that the BLP of Glenn Beck isn't a hit-piece...oh, I'm sorry, I meant, it seems like every other day there is some enlightened soul, desperately seeking to make the truth known, pointing out that the BLP of Glenn Beck is not an, "accurate description." My response is this: ] ] ] before you decide to make stupid claims, and then wonder why no one takes you seriously. It generally saves your time, and ours. <small><span style="font:Arial">]]]</span></small> 03:06, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

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Julie Muhlstein (2 October 2009). "Turns out Glenn Beck actually was born in Everett". The Herald (Everett).

Inconsistencies in Article

In this article, Glenn Beck is painted as an entertainer and a pundit, a talk show host and a reporter. Is it common practice to have a wikipedia article contradict itself on so many levels? How can you call a man a pundit when his arguments have been shown to be fallacious in the past, or more often simply false?] The famous parody of Beck's birther movement, about him having raped and murdered a girl in 1990, is a (personally) hilarious example of his fallacious arguing. His behavior and statements do not conform to that of a pundit. Just as Keith Olbermann and Rush Limbaugh are not pundits, neither is Glenn Beck. It is arguably better to have the wikipedia article summarize the people's perception of him (as either a pundit or an entertainer, depending on the perspective) than labeling him as either. Otherwise, where is the NPOV?

Also, the guy above calling Olbermann "Olberwomann" - is that really appropriate? I understand you disagree with Olbermann's views, but personal attacks are unnecessary. You simply cannot present yourself as a neutral spectator and still inject a partisan agenda into the discussion. GRHooked (talk) 07:40, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

"Glenn Beck is ~~painted as~~ an entertainer and a pundit, a talk show host and a reporter" sums it up well. If you have sources discussing the differences between the common labels applied to the subject that would improve the article. Otherwise, it is SYNTH and your opinion contradicting what some sources have said.Cptnono (talk) 07:49, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

"Injecting a partisan agenda into the discussion?" Okay, let's work that out. First, let's take your example. "Olberwomann." I have a personal dislike of Keith Olbermann (previously referred to as "Olberwomann," cause I find it funny). How is that injecting a partisan agenda? To me, it shows a dislike of a specific man. Oh, wait! I forgot. Nowadays, you can't dislike someone for any reason except ideological reasons, unless you dislike Obama for ideological reasons, and then you're just a racist. You're right, my bad. It's just too confusing for my simple, Missouri-raised mind to understand. That automatically makes me a Republican drone (except for the fact that I dislike the Republicans much more than I do the Democrats, and I am not registered with, nor do I subscribe to, any party.
Now, in the reality I grew up in, it was theoretically possible to dislike someone for reasons outside of politics. Like, for instance, hypocrisy. Here's a good example (since we are bringing in partisan websites): 1. Another good reason not to like someone is impoliteness. Here's another good example: 2. A third reason is pretending to be something you are not, or misleading people as far as you can: 3 and 4. And the last reason I care to mention (and the reason why I call him Olberwomann) is all the whining: 5 (yes, I realize that Beck cries continuously, however, I personally let emotional reactions that have to do with patriotism slide). And it is not a personal attack to give my opinion on a non-user, so please don't label it as such.
But how is this article contradicting itself? Beck is an entertainer: He calls his radio show, "The Fusion of Entertainment and Enlightment," and he is an accomplished stand-up comedian. He sounds like an entertainer. Beck is a pundit: "A 'pundit' is someone who offers to mass-media his or her opinion or commentary on a particular subject area (most typically political analysis, the social sciences or sport) on which they are knowledgeable. The term has been increasingly applied to popular media personalities. In certain cases, it may be used in a derogatory manner as well." How is that not true? Or is it that some people don't like giving him any more credit than they absolutely have to? Beck is a talk show host: Go to Glenn Beck (TV program), and Glenn Beck Program for proof. Glenn Beck is a reporter: "A reporter is a type of journalist who researches and presents information in certain types of mass media." Sounds about right. Again, how is this contradictory?

As for Politifact's little Truth-O-Meter...wow. They found ten things that he has said this year that were not true, out of (probably) thousands. Man, that kind of lying is almost habitual, right? But, of course, not all of those "lies" actually meet the general criteria to be called a lie. Of those, only two are actually statements either based on false information, or a theoretical lie (I say theoretical, because I don't like calling people liars unless I have proof). The rest were untrue based on someone's opinion, whether it was the people at Politifact, or Beck himself.
For instance, the "Andy Stern" one. Here is a small excerpt: "Stern led the pack for the first data release, which covered visits from Jan. 20, 2009 to July 31, 2009. But he was surpassed by several other individuals in the second release, which updates the data through Aug. 31, 2009 (and which was made public more than a week before Beck aired his comment)." Oh, wow! He must have been lying, and it is not possible that he simply did not know about the new list!
Or, the "Van Jones is an avowed Communist" one: After stating that Jones specifically said he "needed to be more radical," and describing several Marxist actions he took after leaving jail, they list a few things he has said since then, and say, "That doesn't sound Marxist to us." Well, then, Beck must be lying! (Note: No one has ever found a clip or statement from Jones that renounces Marxism.)
Or, and this is the best one, in the "Van Jones/Truther" one: After discussing the petition that Jones supposedly signed, and giving the White House statement on it, they say this: "Jones' name is listed on the petition , and he has not disputed that he signed it. Democrats such as Howard Dean said that Jones made a mistake by signing the petition without knowing its complete contents." (*Head slap*) How is that a lie? He signed the petition. Now, perhaps he didn't know what was on it, but in my personal experience, you don't sign something without reading it first, and if you sign something, you admit it openly, no matter what it said. If he signed it by mistake (I'm not sure how different the actual petition could have been than the first few sentences suggested it to be), then he should just say, "I made a mistake when I signed it."
Lastly, and this is the dumbest one, the "RomneyCare bankrupting Mass." one: This is kin to the old, "Chicken or egg" question. Which causes government to run out of money first: more spending or less revenue? Well, here is a simple question to answer that question: Which can government control? SPENDING! Yes, the almost-$1 billion/year doesn't quite take care of the $5 billion deficit, but it would have helped, and that's just $1 billion more in debt than they are now. So, of course, you can say that RomneyCare is not bankrupting Mass., but that is a matter of opinion.
So, in the future, you might want to do some research on your research. You know, make sure it doesn't put forth a partisan agenda. Or something like that. J DIGGITY (U ¢ ME) 09:59, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

It is weird to see how defensive you get. Are you Glenn Beck? I don't see otherwise why this matters to you so much, but please remember this is not a forum for general discussion on the man. This has to do with the article alone, please stay on topic. As far as your definition of pundit: does Misplaced Pages policy typically allow you to use words as they are defined on Misplaced Pages, or as they are actually defined in a dictionary? A pundit is more understood as an expert on a subject. In fact, this is the definition of the Wiktionary entry: "A professed expert in a particular field, as called upon to provide comment or opinion in the media." What field is Beck an expert in? Fear mongering, demagoguery? He is certainly allowed to his opinion, but to call him an expert on opinion is simply wrong. GRHooked (talk) 15:59, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Am I Glenn Beck? Ah, you caught me. Despite the fact that I make over $20 million a year, I care enough about what people like you think to come down here and pretend to be someone else...Of course I'm not Glenn Beck. And it matters to me because when people come in here and claim that there is a problem with the neutrality of an article that several editors have collaborated on, using a biased argument, is hypocrisy, and that guy is indirectly accusing me and several other people of breaking the rules. For some odd reason, it bothers me. I'm also wondering why WP:NOTAFORUM is getting thrown in my face, when everything I said was a response to a post about the consistency of the Glenn Beck BLP, on the BLP's talk page. Yeah, that is a total breach of the guidelines. Again, you caught me.
As for the claim that Beck is not a pundit, I think, honestly, it really doesn't matter what the hell we call him. (In case no one could tell, I've had this argument before, and it exasperates me.) Why the hell does it matter that hardcore to some people? So we call him a pundit. A pundit is, by definition, someone knowledgeable in a particular field. I would contend that Beck is quite knowledgeable in the field of punditry and commentating itself, seeing as he regularly has over 2.5 million viewers, almost as many viewers as the most watched television show on a news station, at a slot where a year ago the most anyone got was a little over a million! But, of course, that's not at all notable, and easily accomplished by anyone. On the flipside, let's not call him a pundit! It will accomplish something awesome: It will cause all the whiny Beck-haters to shut up about it, and it won't make a bit of difference! Hell, that would be enough for me to support the idea right there. Except, Mr. Hooked, that you are supposed to refer to him as the reliable sources refer to him, and there are numerous sources that call him a pundit. So, no, I will have to withdraw my support, based solely on the rules. So, no, not to call him an expert would be wrong. And also, here is that Wiktionary entry you posted, only with some emphasis on the important part: "A professed expert in a particular field, as called upon to provide comment or opinion in the media." I do believe even Beck-haters would have a hard time arguing that point without resorting to name-calling and debasing of character and accomplishments (i.e., claiming, as is claimed here, that Beck is thought of by more than 100% of everyone in America as a crazy lunatic and a right-wing hatemonger), but I'm willing to see them try. It might be funny. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshuaingram (talk • contribs) 17:23, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

I was never proposing you were Glenn Beck, please calm down. This is NOT a general discussion on what you think of Beck, this is about the article. I do not care what you think about the man, and the reciprocal is very obviously true, so how about this: you calm down, and discuss (with emphasis on the important parts) THE ARTICLE like an ADULT.

Now, if to be a pundit you must be an expert in the field of punditry, then I don't know what to say to your logic. If being an expert in entertaining someone makes you a pundit, why aren't Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert listed as pundits? GRHooked (talk) 23:28, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

He does meet Wikipeida's definition of pundit with "...or opinion-leader who analyzes events in an area of expertise in the popular media" in my opinion. Expertise might be debatable but he obviously knows more about politics than the average Joe. Application of the knowledge might be a problem. Are you trying to say he isn't a journalist? Regardless, don't talk about this not being a forum then completely disregard a key aspects of the project such as using reliable sources. It isn't for us to decide if he is a pundit/news anchor guy/jerkoff/sunshine or not. I might just be being CHILDISH, though. (couldn't resist :) ). This discussion really might be better at an article discussing the overall concerns of entertainment in the news in general. Make sure the sources are there, though.Cptnono (talk) 09:36, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Calm down? I fail to see what I have said that is not considered calm. Passionate, maybe, but I have not been screaming like the crazed maniac you are implying me to be. Could you point out some non-calm things I've said, so in the future I don't freak anyone out?
Second, yeah, you did imply that you thought I was Glenn Beck. " Are you Glenn Beck?" was your exact phrase, and I responded as such. Again, I don't see a problem with this.
Third, everything I said was a response to what you said, which, where I'm from, it is customary to respond to someone's statements. If you have a problem with this, let me know and I will ignore everything you say in the future, or you could put a little "respond to this please" behind the sentences you want me to respond to.
Lastly, again, everything I have said has been a response to you, and I have responded with what I thought was an equivalent level of maturity. So, if an editor wants to have a grown-up discussion with me, they should probably start by making grown-up statements. J DIGGITY (U ¢ ME) 01:40, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

I've never seen such a sarcastic (NOTE: sarcastic statements have far less impact via text) person over the internet, but it's fine. If you are responding to everything I've said as per your claim (which, by the way, is total bullshit: most of what you said was off of a wild tangent, unless you typically write an essay in response to everything a random asshole posts on the internet), then let me give you another chance to respond to my last statement (which, contrary to your claim, you have NOT responded to): Why aren't Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert listed as pundits? They meet the definition, especially if you continue to use your circular logic that to be a pundit you simply must be an expert in punditry. By the way: by calm, I meant polite. Your statements seem to be incapable of being polite. Facetiousness, sarcasm, and a generally shitty attitude only make the editing process harder, and taking out your frustrations with dissenters on a new editor like myself hardly seem the role to take if you want yourself to be seen as a "grown-up" editor. GRHooked (talk) 07:58, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

First, I apologize if I came off rude. That was not my intention. Sarcasm, however, was my intention, and if that hurt your feelings, well, I guess I'm sorry for that too.
As for responding to your statement, uh, Stewart and Colbert are both listed as pundits. Perhaps they aren't listed as pundits on their own BLP's, but I can't help that. And you are certainly correct that they meet the definition, except they meet the definition because multiple sources have called them "pundits". It has nothing to do with what they do, or what they are good at, it has to do with what the reliable sources state them to be.
Lastly, facetiousness and sarcasm are the same things, and I have never found them to be impolite, unless used to insult someone, and I have never found being told I was wrong, backed up with some form of proof, insulting. I'm sorry if you do. I do not think I have had a shitty attitude, either. I will absolutely agree that I have not treated you as someone to blindly agree with, but don't take it personally, because I do not blindly agree with anyone. If you don't believe me, ask my wife. And you know what? When I was brand new, I walked in here and started changing shit for the fun of it, because I thought I knew what I was doing. Then someone sarcastically pointed out that I was breaking several rules by using blogs and biased self-published sites as sources, making claims that were not factual, things like that. It forced me to read the guidelines, and now (while I am never going to claim that I always know what I'm doing) I have a decent understanding of what is acceptable and what is not. And you have no reason to be ignorant to the rules, as someone put a welcome template on your talk page over six months ago.
And I'll tell you a secret: if you stick to articles of people that you like, but can see their flaws and fallacies, and avoid people that you dislike (or hate), it's a lot easier to be neutral. J DIGGITY (U ¢ ME) 15:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Crying

Why isn't Glenn Beck's crying mentioned? A google search reveals many sources discussing the times he has cried on the show and how he used Vicks vapor rub to fake cry. This led to controversy and thus his show becoming more popular. Shouldn't it be discussed? Do a google search to see the sources. Wikipediarul e s 2221 08:44, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Do a google search and provide the links.Cptnono (talk) 11:49, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

This has been mentioned, parodied, criticized in multiple mainstream news sources. Beck crying on air, is pretty common on the show. Probably deserves some mention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.110.167 (talk) 04:03, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

So provide the sources.Cptnono (talk) 04:13, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Genesis of the Beck - Vicks Vapor Rub legend/meme: "Jill Greenberg is The Manipulator"
An instance of analytical commentary: "How Mormonism Built Glenn Beck"
One of many critical mentions: "If I Still Worked at Fox"

↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 14:01, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Realistically, none of those sources would be usable in a BLP. Number 1 is an opinion piece about Jill Greenberg, number 2 is a commentary piece on Glenn Beck's Mormonism, and number three is an opinion piece from a site that is not exactly known for their neutrality. If we are going to mention this on his BLP, it should be done correctly. Make sure you follow the guidelines about sources used in BLP's. J DIGGITY (U ¢ ME) 16:10, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes notable instances of commentary are included as sort of samples of a topics reverberations in the culture. And, with this in mind, note that No. 1's Jill Greenberg is a "famous" photographer in her own right (with the twin memes of her applications of mentholated balm in the production of portrait of crying babies and of a crying Beck being notable within their own right as well), No. 2's Joanna Brooks is a credentialed academic, and No. 3's Eric Burns is an Emmy winning media critic.↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 10:13, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes, sure. However (as I'm sure you are aware), the sources used in a BLP are subject to different rules. In my opinion, these sources do not meet the criteria. I'm not trying to block the addition of Beck's crying to this article, since I agree that it is notable enough to be mentioned. That does not mean that we should use sources that do not meet the guidelines. Find some sources that meet the guidelines, and I will wholeheartedly support their entry into the article. (Because we all know that my support is required since I run this page, right? *eye roll*) J DIGGITY (U ¢ ME) 15:25, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Cptono: I am not an editor. I am pointing out something I hope editors will take note of and explore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.110.167 (talk) 15:59, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

I did decide to follow-up on this and it appears to be bogus. Vapor rub was used for a photo shoot. Cptnono (talk) 09:27, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Some googling turned up the following, among others: , . Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:51, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

The Plan, MLK

There should be a mention of his upcoming book The Plan, as well has his upcoming Martin Luther King Jr. Day speech at the Lincoln Memorial, which will coincide with the release of The Plan. Stonemason89 (talk) 03:32, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

We generally don't look into the future on WP articles. Both of those issues could be viewed as promotional in nature. Arzel (talk) 03:55, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

CD

I'm removing "While working in Connecticut, Beck appeared and sang background vocals on The Delrays' Red, White and Blues CD, a fund raising effort by then Governor John G. Rowland produced by guitarist Tom Guerra. The CD was well received and was promoted by a series of live appearances." I was inclined to tag it but we have discussed lack of sources on this page. Also, I can't really tell if this is important or not. Any sources or thoughts on it?Cptnono (talk) 05:37, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Propose expanding quote

Currently:
In 2006, Beck asked Muslim congressman-elect Keith Ellison, a guest on his show, to "prove to me that you are not working with our enemies...And I know you're not. I'm not accusing you of being an enemy, but that's the way I feel." Ellison replied that his constituents

Proposed change:
In 2006, Beck remarked to Muslim congressman-elect Keith Ellison, a guest on his show, "I have been nervous about this interview with you, because what I feel like saying is, 'Sir, prove to me that you are not working with our enemies.' And I know you're not. I'm not accusing you of being an enemy, but that's the way I feel." Ellison replied that his constituents

Reasoning:
1. As it is currently, it incorrectly paints the exchange as Beck asking a question when as it happened Beck was commenting on his feelings and that is what Ellison replied to. Although an argument can be made that he was using his feelings as an excuse to indirectly ask the question, the whole quote more accurately portrays the scenario as it actually unfolded.
2. It is the correct quote (including quotation marks) from the listed source.

PaulOtt (talk) 16:40, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

While I'm hesitant to expand the content any further for weight reasons, we should make sure we have enough context to correctly portray it. So, I would support this change. Morphh 17:35, 07 January 2010 (UTC)

Morph summarized the reasoning perfectly.Cptnono (talk) 22:59, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

ADHD diagnosis?

I have heard Glenn Beck make jokes about being "riddled with ADD" on the air several times. It sounded like humorous self-deprecation, usually in the context of him jumping from subject to subject in free-association. This article states that he has been diagnosed with ADHD, and the citation is this web page that states simply that "e has often discussed his diagnosis of ADHD on his radio show." It doesn't strike me as a reliable source. Please understand, I'm not disputing this, and I could either believe this or not depending on persuasive evidence. The provided link is not persuasive because it is anonymous (no way to evaluate the author's identity, let alone reliability) and the claim is unverifiable (no mention of when he said it on the air, a quote of the exact words he said, etc). It would be interesting to know one way or the other, but in its current state, this claim seems a bit dubious. CosineKitty (talk) 23:24, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I found two references for the ADHD claim, one that was already here (part 3 of the Slate article), and on Glenn Beck's own web site: a transcript of an interview where he talks about taking medicine for "ADD or ADHD" and not liking how it made him feel. I removed the healthcentral.com reference because I still think it was too weak. CosineKitty (talk) 02:59, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't like the term African-American

"African-American is a bogus, PC, made-up term. I mean, that's not a race. Your ancestry is from Africa and now you live in America. OK, so you were brought over -- either your family was brought over through the slave trade or you were born here and your family emigrated here or whatever but that is not a race." Stonemason89 (talk) 03:27, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Are you also going to include, "Beck’s on-air guests agreed, noting the frequent misuse of African-American as a label, using, for instance, the term incorrectly applied to someone from Jamaica. Also, it’s not used to describe South African-born Charlize Theron, who is white and now a U.S. citizen." (taken from the first reference). The second reference is so bias, I don't even know where to begin. Sounds like you want to take out the context to promote a specific POV. Bytebear (talk) 03:55, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

And why is this in any way relevant to his notability? Encyclopedia.. not a tabloid. Morphh 13:44, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Glenn Beck talks on the radio and TV for hours every day. If we included this opinion, we would set the precedent to include any other opinion of equal note, which would bloat the article without limit. The "political views" section could arguably be made more detailed than the few sentences it now contains, but to be a good article, it should remain an overview of his philosophy, not an enumeration of specific statements he made. CosineKitty (talk) 15:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

That was the whole problem with the broadcast, they were complaining about all the different terms for black people in America (noting for instance that African American isn't comprehensive enough to address people from jamaica), and didn't realize their own criticisms supported the use of the different terms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.194.51.179 (talk) 02:38, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Was this article written by Beck or something

Seriously. The man is clearly deranged. He spouts conspiracy theories, and over half the country makes fun of him for it. But based on the article, you'd think he was someone respected by political philosophers or something. When is reality going to intrude on this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.194.51.179 (talk) 02:41, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

The real question is, why do people have such stupid biases? It seems like every other day there is some idiot bitching about the fact that the BLP of Glenn Beck isn't a hit-piece...oh, I'm sorry, I meant, it seems like every other day there is some enlightened soul, desperately seeking to make the truth known, pointing out that the BLP of Glenn Beck is not an, "accurate description." My response is this: READ THE RULES before you decide to make stupid claims, and then wonder why no one takes you seriously. It generally saves your time, and ours. J DIGGITY (U ¢ ME) 03:06, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

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Revision as of 03:06, 15 January 2010

Inconsistencies in Article

Suggested Additions to Glenn Beck Article-Page

Crying

The Plan, MLK

CD

Propose expanding quote

ADHD diagnosis?

Doesn't like the term African-American

Was this article written by Beck or something