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IPA fot Zeev Suraski
Could someone provide the IPA for Zeev Suraski, the current article is a bit ridiculous. Thanks, JACOPLANE • 2008-06-27 10:14
Nomination for deletion
Please see: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Unification Church and antisemitism
I just undertook a major revision of this article. However, I am not an expert, and would appreciate any more sets of eyes as are available to check my work, make suggestions, and generally contribute. Many thanks, Kaisershatner (talk) 17:16, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
- Um, Kaiser, if by your own self-admission here for the world to read you declare that you are "NOT an expert" on the Zohar what in heavens name are you doing undertaking to do a "Major revision" of this most complex and abstruse, prone to controversy, article for???!!! Would any sane person say it's "normal" for an editor who by his own self-admission is "NOT an expert" to do a "a major revision" on Einstein's Theory of relativity or admits that he's "NOT an expert" on Brain surgery or Astrophysics and then be allowed to undertake a "major revision" of those articles if he admits he ain't no expert??!! You need to perhaps spend time in WP:SANDBOX, try learning more about WP:NOTMYSPACE and WP:NOR before trying to undertake huge jobs you admit you are not qualified for. IZAK (talk) 06:08, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
- Dear Izak, I may not be an expert in Kabalah, but I do speak English and also know how to copyedit. Removing duplicated sentences, poor grammar, uncited assertions, POV, and other gross errors does not require that much expertise, and I have been around WP and WP:Judaism long enough to know how to do that. Also long enough to know that suggesting you check out WP:DICK is probably a waste of time. PS, if you have time for some constructive editing at Zohar that would be helpful. Best wishes, Kaisershatner (talk) 15:56, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
- Just wanted to add that (1) you are welcome to see for yourself what "damage" I have done to this unreadable POS article that was a poor cut and paste job from the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia: , (one couldn't even find a list of the actual contents of the Zohar in the article as it was written before my edits), and (2) my understanding of WP Judaism is that it is supposed to be a place where we can collaborate on improving articles pertaining to Judaism, ie, a place where one can come freely to ask for help without being pilloried for having the good sense to ask, (3) a helpful hint: next time you suggest someone check out the sandbox, consider scanning their number of edits and contribs first. (4) I'd suggest you review WP:BITE but after five years and 16000 edits I'm starting to feel less like a novice. (4) As a side project, why not take it upon yourself to revert all of my changes to Zohar, Maimonides, Hebrew calendar, Amidah, the Maharal, Talmud, Torah, Torah reading, Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and triennial cycle, just for starters. I can give you a more complete list of my major Judaism-related edits if you need it, and I freely admit I am not an expert in any of these subjects either. Maybe I should have waited for an expert such as yourself to donate the gift of his time and wisdom. But then again, im lo achshav eimatay? Kaisershatner (talk) 16:35, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
- Whoa, suggest you review WP:DGAF, achshav. Its just not worth it to be angry and/or stressed over this. If you know what you're doing (and from what you said, it appears you do, then DGAF what IZAK thinks. ɳoɍɑfʈ 19:06, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Kaiser: Thanks for the list of all the areas you have edited next time I look them up. I don't have limitless time in any case. It is frightening to think that people will undertake to seriously edit subjects that they brazenly admit right here in public that they are not experts in. For example, how do you know when you deal with a concept that may not have a direct quote in an article and you decide to cut it out or re-arrange it that it may indeed be one of the most central and key ones in that article awaiting a source to be written in but in the meantime it's 100% valid and reliable without any citation or source inserted yet? This is like saying, that being handed all the tools of surgery and being dressed up like a surgeon, but lacking a medical school background, you would still undertake surgery, prescribe medication and "heal" the sick. I dunno, I would never do it, but I guess you would if you had the interest even though you lacked your own self-admitted "expertise" (and remember, it was you who came here openly declaring that you are "not an expert" but you were going to edit the Zohar article of all things -- so what did you expect? a medal or to get some rational guidance?) But I suppose given that we have many alert experienced and knowledgeable editors, if you had done any major damage some of them would have picked it up by now or is everyone asleep? Happy Chanuka to one and all! IZAK (talk) 02:24, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
Side note: IZAK - it seems quite out of character for you to rip someone a new asshole in this case. Your Dec 9th edit was IMHO uncalled for in its language. You always have good points but in the future you might want to double check how you choose to express them. Joe407 (talk) 11:59, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
- Noraft, thanks for your excellent advice. Cram it, IZAK :) You are still welcome to help me improve the encyclopedia, though, starting with Zohar, if you have some constructive suggestions (I am not an expert, and perhaps there are things I have missed). Chag sameach to the project, and my apologies for being quick to anger. Kaisershatner (talk) 14:07, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
- Kaiser: Take it easy. There is no "anger" at work here. You should interpret my comments in light of my pride and expectations for all Judaic subjects. The mere fact that anyone can come along and make edits is a two-edged sword, on the one hand great things can be added on the other hand great harm can be done. Gone are the days when any one editor could roam over all aspects of Judaic subjects, the best we can do is when we come together here we can speak our minds freely and not be told to "shut up" when expressing valid concerns. I doubt if any subject-area on Misplaced Pages tolerates edits over the long term by any self-admitted non-expert editors by now. The days of free-wheeling editorship are long gone and we must all submit to serious oversight and criticism whether we like it or not. I cannot join you as you snap your fingers to come to points XYZ, but at least I can express real concerns here. Have a happy Chanuka! IZAK (talk) 09:45, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- IZAK, I apologize for my angry comments. I have no doubt that your goal is to have the best possible articles here. What set me off is your suggestion that my editing Zohar was like someone treating it as their myspace page, and your ignorance of, or indifference to, my contributions. (Would it make sense to look at my edits to Zohar before disparaging them?) To me it seems we here should encourage people to ask for help and to know when they are not experts in a subject, and to guide and teach them if we are lucky enough to understand better. That IMO would be more in the spirit of this wikiproject. Finally, I am reminded that "He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty," (Prov. xvi. 32), a teaching I for one have continually failed to live by. At the same time, there is Bava Metzia 58b to consider. Of course, IANAE. Best regards, Kaisershatner (talk) 15:50, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Appeal to lift censorship
There is a major problem with Ethiopian related issues. Any time scholarly evidence is presented on the sites above suggesting that there was a Hebrew and Israelite presence in Ethiopia and Arabia before 586 B.C.E. it is almost immediately censored. It is clear from the Sheba-Menelik Cycle of the Kebra Nagast that its Old Testament references pre-date the 7th century B.C.E. and the Sabaean inscriptions at Adi Kaweh, Wukro, Ethiopia (below the alleged grave site of 10th century Queen Yodit) twice specifically mention Hebrew as subjects of three queens of Sheba. In conjunction with Chaim Rabin's linguistic work suggesting that there was an ancient Hebrew presence in Asir and Hijaz, and Noldeke's shock at the antiquity of the Ethiopian word for the Ark of the Covenant plus the Sabaean origin for the word "Falasha" and the Beta Israel's word for their house of prayer and other evidence it is unfortunate that no discussion appears to be permitted concerning the very strong probability of an ancient Hebrew/ Israelite population in pre-Babylonian captivity days in Arabia and to a lesser extent Ethiopia. Saudi Arabia and Syria have banned any books suggesting this probability. It is a pity Misplaced Pages editors have followed that example. Jewish interest in Ethiopian Hebraic and Israelite evidence is so disinterested that ironically it has been left to Adolph Eichmann's son to excavate Queen Yodit's alleged grave.
Ntsukunyane Mphanya 12 December 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ntsukunyane Mphanya (talk • contribs) 00:25, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- The material Ntsukunyane Mphanya is complaining about being censored appears to be material from the book by Dr. Bernard Leeman, Queen of Sheba and Biblical Scholarship; which is a book whose reliability has come into question. (See Misplaced Pages:Fringe theories/Noticeboard for the relevant discussion.) And no, to my best knowledge, no one is suppressing the influence of Judaism to Ethiopian culture -- which is quite well documented in the primary & secondary literature. -- llywrch (talk) 06:59, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Do not use the term "Old Testament"
The correct terms for the Jewish canon of works is Torah for the 5 books of Moses (Chumash), plus Prophets (Nevi'im) plus Writings (Ketuvim). The three are collectively known by the acronym "Tanackh".
The term "Old Testament" is a derogatory description used by and invented by the Christian movement. It Infers that the Jewish holy works is replaced by a new testament, because the new Christian religion replaces the old Jewish religion.
This is called "supercessionism", whereby one movement supersedes and replaces an old one. The same tactic is used by Islam, where it is claimed that Islam replaces both Judaism and Christianity. Historygypsy (talk) 23:07, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
- To the best of my knowledge articles about Judaism usually use "Torah" or at least "Pentateuch" instead of "Old Testament", "Tanach" or "Hebrew Bible" (what an awfull term), and BCE and CE instead of BC and AD. But thanks for pointing our attention to it again, and please replace any occurances of Christian terms by the appropriate Jewish ones whenever you see them in Judaism related articles. Debresser (talk) 01:25, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
- For the record, it is never spelled "Tanackh". Either "Tanakh" or "Tanach", according to your usual convention. —Largo Plazo (talk) 16:04, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
- No, "Old Testament" is certainly not a derogatory description, given that the people who use it consider the work to be Holy Scripture and some of them consider it to the fundamental truth. —Largo Plazo (talk) 23:01, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- Re: Torah v. Tanakh (Debresser): Don't Torah and Pentateuch both refer to only the first five books? I would think Tanakh is closer to "Hebrew scriptures," since it refers to the writings and prophets as well as the Law. Aristophanes68 (talk) 02:29, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- Re: derogatory (Largo Plazo): Yes, Christians think the Hebrew scriptures are authoritative and true, but the term "old" only makes sense if you've already decided that the Hebrew texts have been superseded by a later revelation. So, the term is essentially derogatory, and therefore many Christians have stopped using it. Aristophanes68 (talk) 02:29, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Public menorah AFD
Please see: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Public menorah, Thank you and a Happy Chanuka! IZAK (talk) 04:38, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
- I'd call that nomination anti-Chabad POV pushing. Debresser (talk) 16:47, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
- Please notice that I had removed my previous post after the renaming of this section to somethng less POV in this edit, because I do not want it to create the false impression as though I am the one escalating this issue. Since my edit was reinstalled, I insist on adding this comment here.
- Ditto. Shlomke (talk) 02:01, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
- Right away the knives come out with no rational discussion. Shame on you. IZAK (talk) 08:13, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
- To clarify, I wouldn't call the nomination of the article for deletion anti-Chabad, but Izak's calling it "Chabad-Lubavitch POV pushing" reveals Izak's anti-Chabad POV. Oh well, Shlomke (talk) 08:18, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
- How silly, working to IMPROVE the structure of articles, no matter what topic, does not make anyone "pro" or "anti" anything. My record speaks for itself. The only thing that I am against is Antisemitism. Kindly observe WP:AGF and WP:NPA. Let's try to have a peaceful and calm discussion about what's happening with all the growing pro-Chabad articles and editors and how that affects the over-all WP:NPOV of many Judaic subjects and try to avoid the obvious drift towards a pro-Chabad WP:POV in violation of WP:NPOV that Misplaced Pages should not just become and be seen as becoming another undercover "branch of Chabad" as pro-Chabad editors undertake a by now VERY obvious Misplaced Pages mitzvah campaign in violation of WP:NOTMYSPACE and WP:OWN. Are you even able to be objective about this discussion or will you insist on taking out the daggers? Did you think this discussion would never come up? Well now it has and try to discuss it in a respectable Wikipedian fashion and not as if it's WP:WAR. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 09:14, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
- How kind of you Izak to ask for things to be discussed in a "respectable Wikipedian fashion" by starting of your sentence with the words "How silly". No, you don't just do it here, you do it all the time whenever you get heated up because someone disagrees with you. Your tone in these debates is almost always aggressive, and I know I'm not the only one that thinks so. I know your record very well. There a good reason you never became an admin since 2002. If you'd seriously like to have some "respectable Wikipedian dialog" perhaps you should take the first step back and start talking nicely.
- The obvious problem with the way you posted this notice is that you called it "Chabad-Lubavitch POV pushing". I dont think Yehoishophot was out to POV push here, and you certainly dont need to sound all your alarms by calling serious editors work POV pushing. There are plenty of other ways to post the notice without upsetting others. Shlomke (talk) 11:59, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
If anyone has a problem with a heading they can discuss it, but archiving it like this is a pre-emptive strike to shut up discussions, so I am restoring it. It is a nice joke about me not being being an admin. The answer is simple, I have never wanted to be one and never will want to be one, I am happy as an editer because being an admin involves too many other responsibilities. It is typical of pro-Chabad editors to resort to strong-arm tactics when things don't go their way and this discussion is far too important to shut-off like this especially when there are important AfDs on the go. Remember WP:NOTCENSORED, thank you. IZAK (talk) 00:17, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
- IZAK, this isn't a "discussion"—it's an exercise in mud-slinging. I archived it not out of any pro-Chabad sentiment, nor to ridicule you, but because it's become a shanda. I respectfully ask that you let this thread die. Please, no more accusations or counter-accusations. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz /Stalk 03:00, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
- You know Malik I am truly amazed at you of all people doing such things, to cut off debate of a legitimate issue that involves the future of Judaic articles on Misplaced Pages because of a "shanda" now that is what I call a good example of a few things such as violating WP:NONSENSE (what "shanda"?) and WP:NOTCENSORED (since when do we get censored by our own editors?) There was once a time when there were very few articles on Judaic topics, and Misplaced Pages welcomed them from all comers and givers. But now there is a huge amount of articles and a huge amount of those are starting to show the depth of the penetration of pro-Chabad editors into almost every article they touch by adding links to Chabad sites and the time that's then spent by other editors to remove or at least reduce those links. Then you have the pro-Chabad articles that read like virtual commercials in violation of WP:NOTMYSPACE and worshipful hagiography with articles ever so skillfuly and artfully being "sculpted" to suit the pro-Chabad POV editors. You know I have been around Misplaced Pages for a long time. I have argued against all sorts of POV editorial distortions, be they Karaite, Reform, secular Bible critics, Christian Evangelical editors etc who have come along with obvious POV agendas to "shape" ALL Judaic araticles THEIR way or stack the cards in their favor. I have fought antisemitic editors with nefarious agendas, and even got into trouble for that in my first year and I learned my WP:Wikiquette lessons the hard way. I have a good eye and judgment for these kind of trends and developments. I do not act blindly and arbitrarily. And I think the time is right to make a big issue of this, TO GET INPUT FROM OTHERS, not just me spouting off, the pro-Chabad editors are already calling me names in violation of WP:NPA and WP:AGF with daggers drawn, but it is fair at this time, we are not babies we can handle it and place the pro-Chabad editors on notice with their HUGE online editorial back-up and contributors that Misplaced Pages will not allow what by now is a virtual conspiracy to hijack the Judaic sections of Misplaced Pages for the online Chabad bandwagon. What about this don't you get Malik? Am I speaking Chinese or some alien language not familiar to trustworthy Wikipedians like yourself? In the coming days, weeks and months I will be dealing with this issue fairly and openly and anyone is free to partake in DEBATING THE ISSUES but please do not come along and shut off discussions because you or anyone else finds them to be a "shanda" or whatnot that makes you squirm. So what? Have you not heard of WP:BEBOLD? Now is the time. To wait longer risks handing over the keys and the direction of the editorship of Misplaced Pages's Judaic articles to a virtual cabal of pro-Chabad POV warriors who are single-minded and brook no opposition as they fight any and all opposition to any comment or editing that they imagine runs counter to their very obvious party line. As I have said and say again, Misplaced Pages is NOT Chabad.org in violation of WP:NOTMYSPACE and more. So welcome aboard the debate and hopefully we can arrive at FIRM GUIDELINES for more balanced and prototypical articles about Chabad AND the ever-growing Chabad influence on Misplaced Pages that puts things in perspective and not skewered to Chabad's obvious one-sided POV. Thanks so much for your understanding, IZAK (talk) 04:43, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
- By all means raise the issue. But please refrain from using POV language as you did before, because that does not serve any cause. Debresser (talk) 08:34, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Expansion of Jewish Revolt-related articles.
Hello all, I just wanted to let any interested editors know that I'm currently involved in a major expansion of a dozen articles related to the Jewish Revolt including biographies and events.
Articles created: Zealot Temple Siege, Jesus ben Damneus
Articles expanded: Ananus ben Ananus, John of Giscala, Simon Bar Giora, Phannias ben Samuel.
Additional expansion of the above articles will continue, along with addition of new articles for more of the high priests, and other figures/events I may uncover.
That said, I could use some help. If someone can add in the Hebrew-alphabet names of those who do not have them, that would be great, as well as add in any other information that will fill these articles out. I'm adding infoboxes, succession boxes, and references as I go so that the pages will be of encyclopedic quality (although the stubs will still need more content). Thanks in advance for your help. ɳoɍɑfʈ 08:52, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Tefillin campaign AFD
See Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Tefillin campaign. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 08:15, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
- this is a quite problematic article, but, as above, this section heading should be retitled. People can have different points of view & still work together, and using language implying lack of regard for Misplaced Pages doesn't help things along. DGG ( talk ) 17:24, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
If anyone has a problem with a heading they can discuss it, but archiving it like this is a pre-emptive strike to shut up discussions, so I am restoring it. It is typical of pro-Chabad editors to resort to strong-arm tactics when things don't go their way and this discussion is far too important to shut-off like this especially when there are important AfDs on the go. Remember WP:NOTCENSORED, thank you. IZAK (talk) 00:21, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
- IZAK, this isn't a "discussion"—it's an exercise in mud-slinging. I archived it not out of any pro-Chabad sentiment, but because it's become a shanda. I respectfully ask that you let this thread die. Please, no more accusations or counter-accusations. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz /Stalk 03:01, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
- Malik, see my comments above. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 04:44, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
- Many editors have tried to introduce balance into WP's Chabad articles, with very little success. As this discussion progresses the reason for that lack of success will become very clear. To accuse IZAK of ganging up on Chabad editors (three seem to be participating in this discussion already) is not helpful. 173.52.187.133 (talk) 22:51, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Chabad, POVFORKs, and alot of discussion
Wow. I didn't realize what a can of worms I'd open up when I AFD'd "Public Menorah". I see that the gamut of Chabad related articles are being reviewed and revised.
Part of the power of the Misplaced Pages community is that all voices can be heard. I'd just like to remind everyone that we will all gain by using reasoned and rational voices and being polite while we disagree. And may the best logic and adherence to WP policy win. Joe407 (talk) 16:27, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
- In fact the main Chabad article is one of the biggest problems, and it reads more like a promotional brochure for Chabad than an encyclopedia article. Many editors have tried to make important changes for balance, and all have failed. 173.52.187.133 (talk) 16:59, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Stop talking about other Editors
Almost every post above consists of two parts, talk about the articles and ad hominun attacks about the authors. Unless you know enough about an editor to write a biographic article, don't mention him or her at all. Rebele | Talk 03:19, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
- If a particular editor is particularly hot-headed on a subject then it may well be necessary to name them. I'm not sure what your point is and why you feel the need to admonish frequent contributors to this discussion page. JFW | T@lk 23:22, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
- If you use Latin, try and get it straight. It is ad hominem. BTW, that was no attack, just good advice. Debresser (talk) 01:18, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- NB: in an ad hominem , which is a logical fallacy, an attempt is made to disqualify an argument based of some (actual, or perceived) personal defect in the person making the argument, instead of discussing the content of the argument. I have not seen that fallacy made in the discussion above. Could you point out the ad hominem? 173.52.187.133 (talk) 12:00, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- The Wictionary lists two senses for the word ad hominem, The first, as you rightly point out, is "a logical fallacy." The second is "A personal attack." For further details, see the article Chofetz Chaim. Rebele | Talk 20:44, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- I suggest you stop randomly firing off mussar at the entire Wikiproject. The fact that someone's editing pattern or somesuch is under discussion does not imply a "personal attack". A "personal attack" would mean that you discredit a person's views because they are Sefardi, from Australia, or Chabad.
- If you are so disturbed by these discussions, either become a constructive participant in these discussions and try to moderate them, or don't participate at all and direct you attentions elsewhere. JFW | T@lk 22:38, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)That is a wiki-redefinition in a poor quality article that needs to be re-written. The link I gave is WP:RS. I see no ad hominems in this discussion. The definition you want amounts to the same as WP:NPA; and if that has been a problem here, I have missed it. You still have not specified the statements to which you object.
- As for your reference to Chofetz Chaim, it seems you are accusing a user of Lashon Hara (or even worse), which is very serious accusation. I suggest refactor that statement. 173.52.187.133 (talk) 22:54, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Peace. :) Debresser (talk) 23:28, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, I think User:Rebele makes a good point. Focus on the encyclopedia, and not on the editors. Kaisershatner (talk) 03:11, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Certainly it is better to "Focus on the encyclopedia, and not on the editors." In my view, most of the discussion focusing on editors has been the unsupported (and probably unsupportable) accusations against one editor for WP:PA and for Lashon Hara. I wish that would stop. 173.52.187.133 (talk) 13:05, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Two Chabad house AfDs
Please see and add your views at:
and at:
Every minor Chabad house does not deserve it's own article. May as well start a series about the thousands of shtiebels in the world that usually far outnumber Chabad houses in size and membership but who neither strive for nor get Misplaced Pages articles of their own. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 14:54, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
He has been warned User talk:Beis Din, but still reverts edits .
Where is the right place to report this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shmaltz (talk • contribs) 18:36, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- In general, vandalism problems are reported at WP:AIV, but in this case it doesn't look like vandalism. It looks to me like an honest difference of opinion that should be discussed on the article's Talk page. Please read Misplaced Pages:Vandalism#What is not vandalism. — Malik Shabazz /Stalk 18:49, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- That was my opinion precisely. Temporary protection might be needed, if an edit war can't be stopped. Debresser (talk) 20:02, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- It is vandalism, as the policy states:Vandalism is any addition, removal, or change of content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Misplaced Pages. His attempts to change a fact so that the article shows favorites for one side of a dispute is a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of WP. His contribs as well as the user name he chose is because his only intention is to compromise the integrity of WP. Playing political correctness here is not going to do any good for WP. I am going to revert this now, and I expect that you treat this as vandalism and not edit warring. Thank you. --Shmaltz (talk) 20:25, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- BTW, I have already reported him here but was told to report it here. The reason is simple, the only ones that will understand it are anyone involved in Judaic related subjects.--Shmaltz (talk) 20:30, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Biblical disambiguators
If you have a moment, please see Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Religion#Biblical disambiguators. Thank you! — V = I * R (talk to Ω) 06:59, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
COI discussion for User:Yehoishophot Oliver and pro-Chabad POV editing
A WP:COI complaint and discussion concerning User Yehoishophot Oliver (talk · contribs) has started at Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#User:Yehoishophot Oliver. Kindly add your comments. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 03:49, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
IPs are adding classic WP:SYNTH, WP:OR, and unsourced personal editorializing to the article again. Can an eye be kept on it so that additions are 1) sourced and 2) the sources directly refer to the book, and not something tangential which would be a WP:SYNTH violation. Thank you. -- Avi (talk) 07:56, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Requested move
Greetings. Please make a note of my new proposal at Talk:Jewish Polish history during the 20th century#Requested move. Thanks. --Poeticbent talk 20:23, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Request Help with Vandalism
Please forgive my ignorance and I do feel a bit ridiculous double-checking on this, but I don't want to change something I don't understand fully, especially when it concerns a religion other than my own. In the Shammai article, I found the following under the See also heading:
Kfar Shamai, wehweh to the max moshav in Israel
The middle part of that has got to be wrong, but how far does the vandalism extend?
I request that someone more knowledgeable fix this, not just reply here, because I am disabled with many illnesses and sometimes I have to take long breaks between editing due to fuzzy-headedness, etc. Thanks, 75.92.162.126 (talk) 10:09, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
- Done --Dweller (talk) 10:22, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
AfD
I've nominated List of former Jews, List of former Christians, and List of former Muslims together for deletion: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of former Jews.Kitfoxxe (talk) 15:21, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Jewish seminary
At the moment Jewish seminary is a redirect to Beis Yaakov. This redirect is not a good thing, but only exists because of lack of an article. Obviously, the word "seminary" may refer to yeshives as well (Rabbinical Seminary of America, Rabbinical Seminary of Budapest, Rabbinical seminary in Breslau, Rabbinical Seminary International). Moreover, Beis Yaakov is a well-know and widespread girls seminary, but it is by no means the only girls seminary. Debresser (talk) 19:55, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
- Wow, what an awful redirect. There are at least 26 Jewish seminaries with Misplaced Pages articles, plus dozens in the subcategories related to yeshivas. Should we create a list of Jewish seminaries (in effect, a disambiguation page) to replace the redirect? Or does it make sense to write a short stub with "See also" links to the categories? — Malik Shabazz /Stalk 20:23, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
- In my opinion a stub is the obvious solution in this case. Adding a link to the category is a very good idea. Debresser (talk) 20:31, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
- FYI, Cat:Jewish Schools says that for seminaries see Jewish Universities and Colleges. Yossiea 02:57, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
- Category:Jewish schools says "For post-high school higher education relating to colleges, universities, yeshivas and seminaries see: Category:Jewish universities and colleges; Category:Jewish seminaries and Category:Orthodox yeshivas. Debresser (talk) 05:35, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Jewish seminary is now a regular disambiguation page. What was all the fuss about? IZAK (talk) 13:29, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
- Great. Thank you. I implemented the suggestion above to link Category:Jewish seminaries, and not only those three articles (at the time). Debresser (talk) 13:35, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
- And you ignored that Beis Yaakov is by far not the only seminary for girls, see above, so I rephrased that as well. Debresser (talk) 13:36, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Chabad 12 year old user
Something to be concerned about: Please take a look at this User:Hayesgenius, a twelve year old Chabad-Lubavitch child editor on Misplaced Pages, in his edit history he leaves information about who he is and what he's doing in violation of WP:NOTMYSPACE for a start. Looks like a troubling development. In your professional opinions and as a Wikipedians do you think it's safe and correct and SANE for kids to get involved like this, even post their personal pics in violation of WP:NOTFACEBOOK? Will Chabad now send even 12 year olds to the Misplaced Pages "front lines" because many of them are online so much? This needs some guidance and guidelines. Please take a look. IZAK (talk) 03:58, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- IZAK, please consider dropping your jihad against Chabad. It reflects very poorly on you.
- Many new editors make the mistake of revealing too much information about themselves. A fair number of editors, including some admins, have pictures of themselves on their User pages. There are also a good number of editors who are minors.
- What we've got is a young editor who, in his own words, "got an account on Misplaced Pages in order edit Chabad, jewish or any articles that need some cleanup." You should be welcoming him to this WikiProject, not talking about him like he's some sort of enemy. — Malik Shabazz /Stalk 04:33, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Malik, there is no battle and he is certainly not an enemy. I have not addressed any comments to him, I am seeking consensus from ADULTS who should show responsibility. This is a kid, nothing to do with the topic of Chabad. Does Misplaced Pages need his pre-Bar-Mitzva photo uploaded at File:Sholom Myers.jpg? IZAK (talk) 04:41, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- If there's no battle, why are there "front lines"?
- Does Misplaced Pages need three pictures of User:Jpgordon and two of his dog? Editors are given a lot of leeway in terms of what they can put on their User pages. In fact, WP:USERPAGE specifically mentions photos as something permitted on User pages. — Malik Shabazz /Stalk 04:53, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- If this has nothing to do with the topic of Chabad, then why did you put "Chabad 12 year old user" as the header and "Will Chabad now send even 12 year olds to the Misplaced Pages "front lines" because many of them are online so much?".
- He's online for nearly a year. What made you so worried about his pre-Bar-Mitztva photo now? I see a pattern here. Shlomke (talk) 05:08, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
- Um Shlomke, ever heard of sechel and achrayus? It will be evident what my over-all concern is soon, in the meantime, I came across it now, so it worries me that a parent thinks it's ok for his 12 year old son (actually he was 11 when he started) to post his name and that of his father, it's in the kid's edit history, upload pics of himself and his father, puts a "Chabad rabbis" tag on his page, and everyone thinks this is normal and ok? This is coming from a Chabad 12 year old, I didn't make that up, so that is what he is, I don't edit Hindu or Muslim articles, but if I came across an 11 or 12 year editing there, I would be worried about the kid and his online safet and speak up about it, I think he should be blocked and told to go home and learn some Chumash and Mishnayos and says Chitas and help his mother and siblings and not hang around in a dangerous place online, not to mention the credibility of his work. I would ceratinly not be pointing fingers at the responsible adult who speaks up and gets shot down for doing so. Is this a kidergarten we are running here or building a mature online encyclopedia? Do you think it's ok that this Chabad kid is allowed to make joke out of Misplaced Pages. Would you let him edit Chabad.org or any other Chabad site or blog? What would you think of Chabad.org if you knew a 12 year old had tampered with it? You'd say it's fine or you'd try to get help for the kid and get him away from the cyber-controls? Think it over. IZAK (talk) 06:08, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
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