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Smile

Connell66 has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Merry Christmas

	<font=3> Wishing you a "Feliz Navidad and a Happy new Year" Tony the Marine (talk)

Proposed speedy deletion of Eva Amador Guillen

The article does make clear how she meets notability as it says in there that she was elected to the Spanish Parliament as an MP therefore she automatically meets notability for people per WP:POLITICIAN which states : "People who have held international, national or first-level sub-national political office, including members of a legislature and judges" Valenciano (talk) 10:31, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Archive--Cerejota (talk) 04:51, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Images

Images are not free, they are marked with Al Jazeera's logo. Sorry. Nice try.--Tomtom9041 (talk) 04:48, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Nope. Licensing is irrelevant for content, you really has to study copyright law: the copyright holder has released the videos from which the image comes under a free license, no questions about it. You can argue other reasons for non-inclusion, but lack of free license is not one of them. Sorry, but you are wrong. .--Cerejota (talk) 07:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I am only me, I do not use any other user accounts nor do I edit by my IP address.--Tomtom9041 (talk) 21:33, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I am only one person, who Tomtom is I do not know.--Tomtom9041 (talk) 21:50, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Banderas

Hello Cerejota, in light of recent discoveries, I am proposing a consensus concerning the colors of the flag of Puerto Rico in neutral articles. Please see the project's talk page for further detail. Thanks for your time. - Caribbean~H.Q. 22:15, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I began noticing it last year. The problem is not only that they push their POV, but that they aren't afraid to create widespread drama by edit-warring. By the way, ever heard of this guy? He has been one hell of a P.I.T.A. recently. - Caribbean~H.Q. 00:15, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Picture origin

There was an involved discussion about the photo's credentials here that actually lead to the issue being raised at Jimbo's page. Definitely an interesting issue, whether there should be a sliding scale policy on the verifyability of picture that relate to ongoing events. The video that shows the same child in the hospital was what sealed the deal for me. But then, I suppose you might question that source as well.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 03:41, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Accuracy

You know, if you remove a thread but don't archive it, you really might want to consider using the summary "Rm thread" rather than "archive".

Please let me know that my efforts have not been in vain, and that you now understand that A7 is for articles which do not even claim notability, and not for articles that do claim notability, but that you think are not notable. Thank you. KillerChihuahua 12:24, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Question

Could you please have a look at this talk page? I would like to know if there is any policy or -more likely- guideline on how to properly deal with 'lists of examples'. I also posted the question in more general termes on a help page. I'll look for your answer here or on the help page. Debresser (talk) 15:03, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for adding your opinion. Debresser (talk) 20:17, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

summary on photo

You can sometimes be brash an one sided, but you did an amazing job in summarizing very fairly a very complex discussion. That takes guts and a real ability to see through your own position into the other side. I just wish in discussion you used the same ability, because you can be harsh (I have a thick skin for intelligent harshness, not for childish trolling, but others might not). Anyways, I was mighty impressed. Seriously. --Cerejota (talk) 03:57, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

While I normally consider your analysis of my edits worthless, I am grateful for your back-handed compliment. That takes guts and real ability to say something positive to someone with whom you disagree and whom you frequently misinterpret. I just wish in discussion you used the same ability, because you can be surprisingly insolent despite the fact that you yourself frequently make questionable comments in the hope that people will take them lightly. Anyways, I was mighty impressed. Seriously. -- tariqabjotu 02:30, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/2008-09 Israel–Gaza Foreign involvement

Sorry, let me clarify my wording - I think we're on the same page here. This topic could definitely be presented neutrally if it did warrant its own article, but the intent of this article was bad to begin with, so the article (i.e. its existence) can't be neutral because it's a POV fork. Graymornings_(talk) 09:26, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Background

With all the forking off that has been done, it is difficult to find a page that actually deals comprehensively, if at all, with the historical background of the war. I've dropped a note re Mearsheimer's article on one of the 'background' pages linked to the main article, but aren't sure if this is the place where we can now begin to construct, with scholarly sources, the various in-depth academic and specialist perspectives on the background to the Gaza war. Which is the best page for this? Thanks Nishidani (talk) 11:12, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. There is a by now fairly comprehensive scholarly documentation on the 2001-2007 siege of Gaza, which was intensified from the time Hamas won the muncipal elections. Tanya Reinhart gives a detailed exposition from a pro-Palestinian position, though she was an Israeli academic. To do this justice would require more than a mere background section in articles denominated 2007-2008 Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Gaza has quite a specific history that cannot be confused with the West Bank, which supplies the major narrative so far. So, as I understand it, the various projects appear to exclude, structurally, anything more than a paragraph for the events 2001-2007, though there is, if I recall, an article on Israel's unilateral disengagement in 2005

As you see, to me most solutions proposed are rather untidy, though I'd be the first to support the conflation of 2008 with 2007. I'll wait and see how things develop, then. Nishidani (talk) 14:07, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I can't find your milhist page. This may be of use (eliding the rhetoric) for the moment, and you can shift it there. Better sources will naturally be forthcoming, but the author is a military analyst, even if he posted this on a site that is liable to challenge as not fitting RS criteria.

The GBU-39 guided bomb is perhaps the most egregious case point illustrating how our aid directly helps Israel to wage aggressive war regardless of American interests. After the disastrous Israeli attack on Hezbollah in Lebanon in 2006, the Pentagon pushed for and Congress approved the transfer of thousands of precision bombs to replenish Israel's stocks in August and September 2007. The GBU-39 Small Diameter Bomb was not included in this gift. But then, more recently, and for no apparent reason, four months before its assault on Gaza, the Pentagon first notified Congress of the GBU-39 transfer in August 2008. Congress was in recess during August, but transfer of GBU-39s to Israel was one of the first items it disposed of in after reconvening in September, in dutiful obedience to the demands of the Israel Lobby and its wholly owned subsidiaries in the Pentagon. These weapons and their delivery racks were then rushed to Israel, and in less that 3 months from the time of Congressional approval, 1000 GBU-39s were cleared aerodynamically for release from Israel's planes and placed in the operational inventory, just in time for Israel's attack on the Gaza Ghetto. The GBU-39 is one of the most modern weapons in the American inventory. Last September, the GBU-39s were trumpeted by the Israeli press as bunker busters of choice for an attack on Iran. But that claim was preposterous and most likely deliberate misinformation, given that we now know the Israelis had been planning the assault on the Gaza Ghetto for at least three months. It was preposterous because GBU-39 has a tiny warhead (only 50lbs encased in a 280 lb bomb). Its small size and (theoretical) high accuracy, however, makes the GBU-39 a far more appropriate as a weapon of choice for assassinating individuals and small groups in densely populated urban areas, like Gaza, than for taking out deeply-buried nuclear components in Iran.' Chuck Spinney, ‘Hosing Obama Israeli Style', Counterpunch 20/01/2009

Rising Eagle: Futuristic Infantry Warfare

Hi. I just noticed that Rising Eagle: Futuristic Infantry Warfare was speedy deleted a few weeks ago. I don't agree that it is a non-notable game, and it is free. Since the afd said that the article was a copyvio, I decided to make a brand new version in my user space. Could you take a look at what I have and tell me what you think? I'll try to get some more sources when I have time (there's already a review in the list). Thanks. -- Imperator3733 (talk) 06:52, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

List of Military SF

Please see here:

Cheers, --Gego (talk) 12:51, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

the list has been redirected to the Military SF article and I started a list with references (although I wouldn't consider some of the books MSF, but whatever...) at eLib, so as to step on nobody's toes. I will copy the finished and agreed upon list afterwards as the basis for the new article... complicated, life at wikipedia. You could add them at elib first, if you want... Military SF Bibliography Cheers, --Gego (talk) 20:03, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Words to avoid: terrorist / freedom fighter

Could you please place a quick comment here? Thank you. Grey Fox (talk) 14:51, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Related to the notice that you put on Jbowersox

This may be of interest:

Talk:The_Burke_Group#Jbowersox.2C_please_respond

thanks,

best wishes, Richard Myers (talk) 13:24, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

RfD nomination of History of union busting

I have nominated History of union busting (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) for discussion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. Cerejota (talk) 05:10, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

your message on my talk page

I find your analysis of the situation incorrect and your message inappropriate.LedRush (talk) 21:09, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Why?--Cerejota (talk) 03:28, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Your continued attacks are insulting, condescending, and uncivil. Please don't post on my talk page.LedRush (talk) 03:44, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

What? No one reasonable can interpret what I did as uncivil, insulting or condescending. You, however, are being needlessly rude and uncivil, indeed. --Cerejota (talk) 03:48, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

So now I am not reasonable? Forgetting your personal attack (unlike me who commented on your edits and attacks), your post on my talk page was clearly insulting, uncivil, condescending, and inflammatory. 1. I used the lowest level template after asking Goldsztajn to stop changing my edits. I thought this was more prudent and friendly than using a higher level seeing as I had already made personal requests to him that were unfruitful. Your accusation that I tried to escalate the matter assumes bad faith and is insulting (and misrepresents the chain of events). 2. Your reading of the policy is incorrect, as it clearly states, "It is not necessary to bring talk pages to publishing standards, so there is no need to correct typing/spelling errors, grammar, etc. It tends to irritate the users whose comments you are correcting. Do not strike out the comments of other editors without their permission."(emphasis in original). You gave me a bad interpretation of the policy and then asked me to apologize someone who treated me so poorly in a public manner.

You were uncivil in making a completely inappropriate warning on my talk page. You were condescending in your explanation of basic Misplaced Pages policies to a longtime editor who has been using and interpreting the policies correctly. You were insulting in the way you completely ignored the history of the dispute with Goldsztajm and then requested that I apologize to him (despite the fact that I had apologized for using a shortened name, but he still acted uncivilly and never apologized for his actions).

I do not wish to continue this conversation with you at all. The dispute with Goldszrajn was already over for a couple of days, yet you felt the need to revive it. I do not. Don't worry, when we work together on future articles, of course, I will treat you with more civility and respect than you have treated me.LedRush (talk) 04:11, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for mediation/The Man Who Would Be Queen#Mediator

Hello. Please see the above link regarding the mediator for Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/The Man Who Would Be Queen. Regards, Ryan Postlethwaite 10:32, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

David Weber

I have done some work on an article about David Weber. Somebody just made a major edit to the article, removing links to excerpts and online versions of the books in the list of published works. I was not the one who put those in, by the way. Would you please have a look here and enlighten me (and possibly others as well) with your opinion.

And while you're at it, there is a difference of opinion between myself and an other Wikipedian, whose input I have come to value very much, on the use of the words "popular and enduring character" in the article. That discussion runs through the two preceding sections on that talk page. Perhaps you could say something about that too?

Thanks beforehand. Debresser (talk) 21:44, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I think perhaps "enduring" is peacock, but "popular" isn't. We have to be careful not to WP:MORALIZE.--Cerejota (talk) 22:05, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I just thought the same this morning when I walked back home. Debresser (talk) 06:39, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

What about the external linking? Debresser (talk) 06:59, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I feel that that Wikipedian I mentioned before (Marc Kupper) is really getting on my nerves, by undoing my edits claiming that they are not or pourly sourced. Would you tell me if I am right here in my feeling, or perhaps wrong? Debresser (talk) 19:36, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

ITN for 2009 Icelandic financial crisis protests

On 27 January, 2009, In the news was updated with a news item that involved the article 2009 Icelandic financial crisis protests, which you created. If you know of another interesting news item involving a recently created or updated article, then please suggest it on the In the news candidates page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 09:12, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Antisemitic incidents related to the 2008-2009 Israel-Gaza conflict

Hi Cerejota, the article that you recently renamed to the title above has been nominated for deletion by user:yamanam. There aren't many people in the discussion, and I thought you might like to contribute your input. I really don't know what you'll say, but you couldn't possibly lower the level of discussion there. Jalapenos do exist (talk) 20:45, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Apologies for copy-paste accident

Untwirl noticed that somehow "cerejoGaza" get into my commit into talk page. It was not my intention. I fixed it and I'm really sorry, it was honest copy-paste accident. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 07:53, 28 January 2009 (UTC) np--Cerejota (talk) 08:16, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Cerejota, could you please express you opinion on http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:2008%E2%80%932009_Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_conflict#No_WP:consensus? AgadaUrbanit (talk) 19:03, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Cerejota, I think that events are described in Unilateral ceasefires second paragraph, relevant quote: Gaza medical sources reported civilians killed.. I'm uncomfortable with the fact that Misplaced Pages states as a fact that "Israeli army said they shot the farmer", quoting in my view in this particular case Hamas source - Gaza emergency chief Mo'aweya Hassanein. Though I have to agree that Xinhua generally is reliable source. Does it make any sense? AgadaUrbanit (talk) 20:17, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Do you agree to make the changes? I don't want edit wars. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 20:44, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Notification

Hi Cerejota, I appreciate you're aware of these restrictions, however, just to confirm: As a result of an arbitration case, the Arbitration committee has acknowledged long-term and persistent problems in the editing of articles related to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, broadly understood. As a result, the Committee has enacted broad editing restrictions, described here and below.

• Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process.
• The sanctions imposed may include blocks of up to one year in length; bans from editing any page or set of pages within the area of conflict; bans on any editing related to the topic or its closely related topics; restrictions on reverts or other specified behaviors; or any other measures which the imposing administrator believes are reasonably necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of the project.
• Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision; and, where appropriate, should be counseled on specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines.
• Discretionary sanctions imposed under the provisions of this decision may be appealed to the imposing administrator, the appropriate administrators' noticeboard (currently WP:AE), or the Committee.

These editing restrictions may be applied to any editor for cause, provided the editor has been previously informed of the case. This message is to so inform you. This message does not necessarily mean that your current editing has been deemed a problem; this is a template message crafted to make it easier to notify any user who has edited the topic of the existence of these sanctions.

Generally, the next step, if an administrator feels your conduct on pages in this topic area is disruptive, would be a warning, to be followed by the imposition of sanctions (although in cases of serious disruption, the warning may be omitted). Hopefully no such action will be necessary.

This notice is only effective if given by an administrator and logged here.

PhilKnight (talk) 19:53, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Rachel Corrie / Saint Pancake

You may be interested in my post here. Thanks, Mike R (talk) 18:22, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

COI

I read your mediation statement with interest, and wondered whether you have read WP:COI recently? It seems to carefully avoid the idea that the only conflict of interest is the financial one. In particular, WP:COI names:

• close personal/professional relationships (affecting James Cantor, Dick Lyon, and Andrea James on several articles)
• activism/campaigning (affecting Andrea James on nearly all of the disputed articles) and
• legal conflicts (possibly affecting Andrea James, who filed legal complaints against Michael Bailey).

as COI issues.

Additionally, it appears that part of one of Andrea James's businesses is promoting the activist POV, so even looking at solely financial/professional conflicts, COI is a concern for this editor.

But I'm not at all sure that James Cantor has a financial COI for articles about sexuality. For the organization that employs him, probably. For individuals that he knows well, yes. But for articles on the subject -- probably not. At least, that's how I interpret WP:COI's statement, "However, an expert on climate change is welcome to contribute to articles on that subject, even if that editor is deeply committed to the subject." (BTW, Cantor's research area seems to be pedophilia, not transsexuality.)

To give a less-fraught example: My husband has his CCIE in network security. Don't you think that he's exactly the kind of person that Misplaced Pages would like to have writing articles about subnetting (one of his favorite topics) -- even though he's paid to work in that field? WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:26, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

"Puerto Rico was not a colony of Spain"

I thought you might find this interesting: Talk:Puerto_Rican_Campaign --J.Mundo (talk) 00:27, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

talk page archive

Yes! I really need that archive. Thanks for your help. --J.Mundo (talk) 06:36, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the cool gadget. I have to share this vandal's edit with someone, 1 --J.Mundo (talk) 06:21, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Rosy Wilde

Please explain on the talk page what you think needs cleaning up, as the article seems in good shape to me, apart from just the list of artists. Ty 10:58, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Please see the WP:MOS, with a particular stress on WP:LEAD, WP:HEAD, and WP:LISTS. I just RCed the page, and it is not really my area of interest, but if you need assistance let me know. Thanks!--Cerejota (talk) 04:50, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I'm still stumped. I'm not exactly a newbie and am familiar with those guidelines, but I don't see what you want cleaning up. The lead provides a concise summary of the main points that are in the article. It could possibly do with a little more detail, but it's about right for the length of the article. Headings? They seem reasonable enough to me and hardly out of the ordinary. The list of artists I have mentioned above, and I'm not quite sure how to deal with that. Lists aren't my speciality. The other list of "Exhibitions and performances" is formatted OK. Please enlighten. It would help if you post on the article talk page for the benefit of any other editors involved with the page. I'm copying this thread there. Ty 05:46, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Copied to Talk:Rosy_Wilde#Clean_up_tag. Ty 05:49, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

NYC Meetup: You're invited!

New York City Meetup—Museum Extravanganza Next: February 6-7, at the Met Museum and the Brooklyn Museum Last: 01//2008 This box: view • talk • edit

Join us the evenings of Friday February 6 and Saturday February 7 around Misplaced Pages Loves Art! museum photography events at the Metropolitan Museum of Art and the Brooklyn Museum.

There will also be a special business meeting on Saturday dedicated to discussing meta:Wikimedia New York City issues with guests from the Wikimedia Foundation.

You can add or remove your name from the New York City Meetups invite list at Misplaced Pages:Meetup/NYC/Invite list.

To keep up-to-date on local events, you can also join our mailing list.
This has been automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 22:10, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Jandrews23jandrews23

If when you see this it is still active could you have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:2008%E2%80%932009_Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_conflict#RE:_Changes_I.27ve_made_to_Rocket_attacks_into_Israel_section

and try to resolve it since you're usually a good mediator, CheersJandrews23jandrews23 (talk) 21:24, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Puerto Rican Campaign

Cerejota, after studying the situation from every point of view, I have come to a conclusion in regard to the infox discussion which I believe may be a just one. Please check it out and express if you agree. Tony the Marine (talk) 20:41, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Hello Cerejota, I am not going to put up with the "user's" nonsense anymore. I would appreciate if you could give a last comment on the issue before I bring the issue to an end. Tony the Marine (talk) 06:55, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

• I want to apologize for my actions during the Puerto Rican Campaign situation. My intentions were to act as mediator and instead became frustrated with Durero. I would be totally unfair if I do not give credit to his valid observations. Even though we at times got off the main topic which was the contents of the inbox, I believe that the final addition (caption) to the infobox is justifable and will help clear any misunderstandings. By Durero pointing this out in the first place, I think we will be able to aviod future edit warring on this particular topic in the future. Gracias a todos, Tony the Marine (talk) 20:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

could you comment please?

you made a change to the article and i was wondering if you coukd commnt on this section http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:2008–2009_Israel–Gaza_conflict#antisemitic_incidents_edit_revert

thanks Untwirl (talk) 14:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

MIlhist- Strategic side.

Anthony H. Cordesman, ‘THE “GAZA WAR”: A Strategic Analysis,’ Center for Strategic & International Studies, February 2009

arbcom

brewcrewer opened Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Arbitration_enforcement#User:Cerejota_accusing_editors_of_.22taking_marching_orders.22_from_CAMERA up. Thought you might appreciate a notice. Nableezy (talk) 07:02, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

and opened again, you might want to comment. Nableezy (talk) 07:58, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Please leave proper edit summaries that explain what has been done in the edit. "Not needed", "actually", "better" and "move", as you have put in edit summaries for Stella Vine, are not at all helpful for other editors See Help:Edit summary for more information. Ty 12:48, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Not really, they are self-explaining with the diffs or previous edits. You might disagree with them, but they are self-explanatory. In particular "move" is very clear, once the content is restored. "better" is only used after a previous edit, and refers to a better (from my perspective) edit. --Cerejota (talk) 22:24, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

You left some broken references

On 08:46, 8 February 2009 you made an addition to the article International reaction to the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict. You added to the section about "Antisemitic incidents". Apparently you copied that from somewhere else, because there are two references that refer to names that do not appear in this article. They are "name=TO/" and "name=AJC/". If you could please add the complete references (or leave me a note where to fetch them). Debresser (talk) 21:55, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah from the main article. Sorry.--Cerejota (talk) 22:20, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks.I'll fix it right away. Debresser (talk) 22:25, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for wikignoming!--Cerejota (talk) 22:26, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

One ref I found right away. The other one was a long story of deletion and restoring, and initially copied from a third article. Now I've got them all. Debresser (talk) 23:20, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for mediation/The Man Who Would Be Queen

Hello. Please see the above page as there has been a change in mediator and state whether or not you accept the new mediator. Regards, Ryan Postlethwaite 22:53, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you

Cerejota, thank you for the smile. Tony the Marine (talk) 03:11, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Mediation

Thank you, I appreciate that. :-) SlimVirgin 04:24, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

re: User talk:Ianjohnsonphoto

I have fixed his attempt with the unblock template - but I will allow another administrator to look at the request - as I was the blocking admin there. Thanks for the notice, Cirt (talk) 06:41, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Jot of info re Milhist. Can't find your subpage, so I've put it here.

Pfeffer,Defense sources: IAF can't repeat Gaza successes in bigger war, Haaretz 09/02/2009

"Hezbollah and the Syrian army are not Hamas," a senior IAF officer said. "We cannot assume that things will be the same in a bigger war." During Operation Cast Lead the IAF implemented a number of changes that it learned from the Second Lebanon War in 2006. For instance, an air force liaison officer was assigned to every battalion and brigade. Liaisons coordinated evacuation of soldiers and strikes on targets on the ground. Also, every brigade was given an attack helicopter squadron capable of striking targets identified by troops on the ground.

Over 1,000 Hellfire and Orev missiles were fired by Israeli helicopters during the operation. An order to use only laser-guided weapons was given to minimize collateral damage. IAF sources stated that as a result, most incidents of friendly fire were not caused by their own force, but rather by tank or other fire.

Still, IAF officers insisted there was a shortage of helicopters. Cobras that had been grounded for six months due to an accident in which two airmen were killed were rushed back into action.Nishidani (talk) 10:41, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Its User:Cerejota/OpCastLead--Cerejota (talk) 10:51, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

How exactly is my editing WWE articles a conflict of interest? I do not work for WWE nor do I know anyone who does.Wwehurricane1 (talk) 23:13, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXV (January 2009)

The January 2009 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 03:19, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Talk:2008-2009 Israel-Gaza conflict#Cryptonio

Why did you remove your comment? Cryptonio improperly removed my comment and his own, presumably because they embarrassed him. I restored the comments he removed, but not yours. Jalapenos do exist (talk) 05:14, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I self-restored... I thought you had removed it. :D--Cerejota (talk) 05:17, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

ICRC

I did not claim that the ICRC was not a RS, but that it could be/was seen/ by some as biased. Perhaps Schussel's blog was not the best source in the world, I was merely illustrating the point. It was used on a talk page, not the article, and the information is certainly verifiable, and I noted that (some) of the information was on wiki as well. Their WWII behavior is not forgotten by everybody, and in fact they just recently apologized for it. There are a number of other reasons that some believe it is biased as well, including the unwillingness of the RC to accept the "Red" Magen David for many years, yet accepting the Muslim Crescent. There is also the issue of Jewish prisoners and kidnap victims, ie the fact that Israel permits ICRC to see Palestinian prisoners yet doesn't require Hamas or Hezbollah to allow them to see their Israeli prisoners. The American Red Cross also boycotted the ICRC for some time because of its refusal to allow Israel in with the Magen David. There are other specific concerns with the ICRC, but I do not intend to document them all, because as I said I am not contesting them as a RS. But to suggest that this is a "fringe" view is laughable. Most human beings know nothing at all about the ICRC, but of those that do, there is a sizeable minority who hold these concerns. Tundrabuggy (talk) 03:02, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Here are a few refs as illustration:

• Double Cross Red Cross for Jews,
• The Price of Principle Jonathon Tobin,
• Facing the Holocaust in Budapest, The International Committee of the Red Cross and the Jews in Hungary, 1943-1945 by Auschwitz survivor Arieh Ben-Tov , pg 66: "the institution showed, in my opinion, only minor interest in the plight of the Jews in Hungary."
• This Reuters article from Nizkor

and of course there is always the converse and one can choose instead to believe this:

• from the book "Did Six Million Really Die?" A Factual Appraisal of the 'Holocaust' By the Red Cross: The Jews and The Concentration Camps: No Evidence of Genocide Tundrabuggy (talk) 03:46, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I am well acquainted with this history, and the debate around it, as I am with the holocaust denialism. The USA was very much an accomplice of the Red Cross issues during WWII, as pointed out in the Nizkor Reuters article. That is even a topic covered in the ICRC article.

The view on the Holocaust and the ICRC is in fact fact part of mainstream history, and a tragic chapter on the meaning of neutrality in international humanitarian law - and has given birth to concepts such as "responsibility to protect". It has also been profusely apologized for. Less generalized, but still generally accepted, has been the issues around Switzerland and the Nazis. However, these are the stuff of history. I can see why you as an activist can feel compelled to raise these issues. But they are irrelevant when they come to evaluate the validity of a source for an event today.

This are still issues that do not detract from the reliability of the ICRC as a source of information, unless there is clear evidence that in this case they are misrepresenting information. You see, pretty much every publication and organization we can consider reliable sources has as some point or even currently be subjected to controversy on the part of a "sizeable minority". Not because of this do we stop holding them as reliable sources. The New York Times, decried in even "mainstream" blogs like Wonkette as the "Jew York Times", is a reliable source. IBM, whose technology enabled the efficient organization of the Holocaust, is considered a reliable source in technology articles about itself. Etcetera. Iffiness of action doesn't mean lack of reliability as a source, it means qualification as a source. Otherwise, none of the sources we use could be considered reliable: every publication mentioned explicitly in WP:RS has had to retract, fire journalists, and been engaged in partisan political debate as to their lines. Yet we consider them reliable sources. Why? Becuase its irrlevant than they have, as in general these are the exceptions and not the rules.

This was clearly explained to us Jimbo when he spoke about Al Jazeera: a reliable source is reliable if we can verify its information as reliable, and we do this by verifying their standards. Thats the part before and after the part you bolded. Reliability is not like notability, a black and white criteria. It is a gradient that changes with context.

The ICRC is considered a reliable source in terms of casualties and other such information because it is seen not only as neutral, but as interested in correct reporting of casualties, in part because thats what they do. I will tell you something tho - if the Israeli goverment directly and with evidence questions the ICRC as a reliable source, thats another deal. But a few books from non-notables, and a bunch of partisan blogs do not evidence make. Certainly, the ICRC is a much more reliable source, in abstract, than any of those you have cited.

Interestingly enough, the "greatest tragedy" in the history of the ICRC was probably commited by Chechen muslims: The ICRC hospital of Novye Atagi (not a good article by any means, but the lack of sources is lazyness, not lack of verification). The ICRC takes flack from all sides of pretty much very modern conflcit it is present at, which tends to support its claim of neutrality, rather than diminish it. --Cerejota (talk) 14:32, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

• I am not an activist, that is your characterisation. * Again, I was not denying that it was a RS but that it was/is considered biased by many who are one side of that conflict.
• Jimbo Wales did not say that we had to verify Al-Jazeera as a RS, he said to concern ourselves with what the information was being used for and since when it comes to text we may not know the facts surrounding the caveats he gave (ie who is reporting), he said 'not to go beyond the facts.' Therefore, it is a good idea to also get the information from another RS. After all, if something is notable (and factual) it ought to be on more than one source. He also said that it was possible to use AJ photos as propaganda for one side. The same is true for text, obviously.
• As for the "Jew York Times," people may call it that, however most supporters of Israel do not consider that it supports Israel in the slightest, on the contrary. So the "Jew York Times" concept has more to do with Jews than Israel. I said in my initial posting that it was not the world's greatest source and I was not trying to add it to the article. Many people may not be aware of ICRC's history, and the fact that not everyone on one side of this conflict finds them such a RS -- in fact many find them biased. Ditto and even more so for HRW & AI. Those are facts that all the yammering in the world will not make them disappear. We will doubtless end up using them in the article since RS quote from them, but that doesn't detract from what I am saying, and it is only fair that editors who use these sources are aware of the thinking on both sides of the fence. That they dismiss it is their perogative. Tundrabuggy (talk) 16:08, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

• OK, you are not an activist. How should I describe you then? Neutral you are not. Disinterested you are not. Constant war-like opposition to whatever editors of the other side do is activism. I call spades, spades. You are generally civil, and I learn a lot of stuff I didn't know existed, but thats about it.
• As to the argument you make here, certainly it is not the argument you made in the talk page of the article. You clearly questioned the reliability of it as source. I am all for extra verifiability in controversial articles. It makes for ugly footnoting but a better article. If that's your concern, then suggest we add equaly or more reliable sources that say the same thing. Or if there is a difference between the two, then constrast them. But do not question the reliability, because it is reliable. That "many" find them biased is irrelevant, so do "many" who find Magen David Adom unreliable and we use it, sometimes as a single source. Just because a source doesn't say what you want it to say do we have to remove it: it depends on the context. Or the inverse is true, just because a RS says it doesn't mean we have to quote it. Quite frankly, I believe you very capable of civil discourse, but uncapable of ever writing a single line of text that while verified, doesn't fit your preconcieved notions of a given topic. Prove me wrong.
• I seldom like to intepret Jimbo or give him undue weight. He clearly re-stated what WP:RS, nothing earth shaking, and your constant (mis)use of him is unamusing. We are requiered to do that of all sources, its called verification. --Cerejota (talk) 18:27, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

User:Cerejota accusing editors of "taking marching orders" from CAMERA (redux)

Damn it! I missed out on the fun. Apologies, I would have chimed in with an enormously helpful 'this is silly' comment which would of course have settled the matter instantly.... Sean.hoyland - talk 07:47, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

OH, noes! See the thread on blogs and sourcing above :D --Cerejota (talk) 13:39, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Not civil, imho

I don't understand why you would consider it necessary to insult another user at an RfC that has nothing to do with that user? Please try to stay on topic without accusing another user of "usually being off-base" and not assuming good faith. Please try to stay on content and not focus on other users. Thanks, Tundrabuggy (talk) 21:38, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Tundra, I copied and pasted what he said about himself, in jest, and so did I, in jest, as marked by the smiley, re-read the tread. You really got to lighten up. Really. And I am not accusing him of not assuming good faith, I am saying that the rationale is - which is obvious by the intervention. Its funny, really, how you are so preoccupied with alleged misbehavior, instead of actually having interesting discussions, like the other thread. In particular around things we probably agree more than disagree, like ArbCom reform. --Cerejota (talk) 21:50, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

The Copyeditor's Barnstar

I really like your pro-Misplaced Pages position in the latest debates; having no agenda and doing small edits here and there that adds a lot to the article readability and professionalism. Please accept this little barnstar ;):

		The Copyeditor's Barnstar
		Cerejota, I sincerely provide you this barnstar for your great copyediting skills and for your rare pro-Misplaced Pages postion in the 2008-2009 Israel-Gaza conflict article. --Darwish (talk) 13:10, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

You can cut and paste it to any of your personal pages if you like. warm regards. --Darwish (talk) 13:10, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Sign

OK. I'll sign my posts. Actually my Signature is a bit lengthy. It may create difficulty while editing. I'll use my default signature temporarily. Lots of issues. We'll do it. Kensplanet (talk) 08:47, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Of course, if we managed so far... on to FA!!!--Cerejota (talk) 08:49, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Gracias

Thank you for nominating "Black history of Puerto Rico" for "FAC". It was one the aticles which I most enjoyed writing. I learned so much while writing it. Have you taken a look at the "talk" page? There is this person who calls himslef "Portoricansis" who has dedicated himself to creating political controversies in the "Puerto Rican cuisine" and "Puerto Rico" articles and is now doing the same in this article. Check out his ridiculous questioning of the articles "GA" status. I just hope that he does not provide a negative influence in the articles nom. Incredible. Tony the Marine (talk) 00:32, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Me leeiste la mente... I just left a message there, including a link to the readability analysis. The most worrying part of the thread, which I didn't address, is the racist flavor they had. It really me dejo un saborcito malo en la boca... This guy must be brough under control, all he does is vandalize and troll, and you have been giving him so many chances is not funny. --Cerejota (talk) 00:40, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Portoricenssis isn't racist, he just spreads pro-anexionism propaganda blindly, the exact opposite of ultra-separatist Wiki En Wiki. Now, don't be confused by my statement, this guy is a P.I.T.A. that will go out of his way to push his POV. He is already running on a final warning, so if he goes ahead with any disruption, just leave me a message and I will gladly put an end to his run. - Caribbean~H.Q. 19:42, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I put a last warning in his talk page, to make things clear. I also linked appropriate policies - he should have the chance to understand the reasoning for any action. And yeah Wiki En Wiki was infamous.--Cerejota (talk) 20:00, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I would bet you my house that he will continue, getting his behind blocked in the process. The only reason that I spared him this time was because his ridiculous comment, actually made me laugh. Un burro hablando de orejas? Hilarious! Anyway, if he is blocked, I will gladly begin a consensus to have him banned as well. - Caribbean~H.Q. 20:07, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, uninvolved admins seem to agree an RfC might be in order, due to the long-time pattern of disruption. Its sad really, cause he has done some good contributions. But sometimes these type of things force people to reflect and comeback as better editors.--Cerejota (talk) 20:10, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, I'm done being lenient, this guy will get a full indef block the next time. Several users (me included) tried talking to him and failed, he just went ahead, ignored consensus and declared Puerto Rican cuisine "his" article. Outside of the constant POV-pushing and trolling, he was already blocked by Tony for posting a direct off-wiki threat towards him and he just issued one against me. If I was trigger-happy, he would be blocked just for that, but curse my merciful nature. Altough, I don't see this ending here, the socks will soon follow... - Caribbean~H.Q. 20:20, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

You got my back, by what is worth. Remember I am involved in editing the WP:ARBPIA topics, which are a chock full of these type of things: this is pedestrian by comparison, if you will ;). I admire your patience, because it just makes trusting your judgment so much easier.--Cerejota (talk) 20:51, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, you are a brave one, I wouldn't touch that conflict with a 10-ft pole. My pin has been in there for two years, I might take a look at the "official" one once I update, which will probably not be soon, I still need to list my latest GAs there. - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:11, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow, here I thought that I was inventing something ;). As to the WP:ARBPIA, its a dirty job, but someone is got to do it... its full of POV-pushing, meat/sockpupettry, uncivility etc. I feel I come out stronger out of it, because I would have been to hell and back. Its a good school. Thats why this guy doesn't faze me, he is an amateur. I have been up to the Big Bad Wolves, and come out with barely a scratch :P--Cerejota (talk) 21:28, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Yup, he can't hold a candle to Wiki En Wiki, that guy actually managed to establish a few alternate accounts. Before I caught him, that is. - Caribbean~H.Q. 22:38, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

He's done. I told you that wouldn't last long, now the puppets will crawl in... Oh well, some fun for the spring. - Caribbean~H.Q. 23:27, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Alert me so I can monitor...--Cerejota (talk) 23:32, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Your idea

List of Puerto Ricans to include ancestry, good! We have a minor situation. One of the main sources in the "Black history of Puerto Rico" ref.#7, is no longer in the net and is a dead link. I think that Jmundo fixed it. Tony the Marine (talk) 04:40, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Clear

I cleared your comments from my talk page in accordance with WP:TPG. Now, let's edit! --Eustress (talk) 04:53, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, now I am doing it too. Happy editing!--Cerejota (talk) 04:54, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

talk discussion

Yeah I meant it lol. I personally agree with the neutrality tag and feel that it is necessary, but from my perspective it would take a miracle for a consensus to be reached. Although I think there are far more important issues within the article which is clearly the underlying issue of the whole dispute. Wikifan12345 (talk) 08:09, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

What about using {{article issues}} with the 4 or 5 options that apply?

On "miracle for a consensus to be reached", well in particular if you and Nablezzy continue your courtship (he-he) in the talk page. I think you guys should call a truce, and refrain from addressing each other directly - rest assured, people form either his side or your will reply. While highly entretaining at times, it does tend to raise the room temperature... uknowhatimean? --Cerejota (talk) 08:34, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately he tends to follow me around wherever I go. I've done my best to avoid user-to-user discussions but it's practically impossible now considering our past feuds. I'm probably soapboxing anyways LOL. But I'm not lying about the following part, he recently decided to chime in on my noticeboard discussion. How thoughtful. Wikifan12345 (talk) 08:40, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Brewcrewer does the same thing to me, and I usually don't get my undies all up in a bunch (except when he goes bully on me - it activates in me very primal insticts that led to me being in detention almost every other week in junior high for beating bullies up for messing with my computer club buddies).

Yes, you guys are all very interested editors with very opposed POVs. The issue is that you both keep on bullying each other (and wikifan, I say this with all due respect, you have also in the past gone after me). Its a chicken and egg issue - so who started it is irrelevant. But whoever stops it, and stops it even in the face of continued misbehavior is the one that gets the credit. This has to stop, and we have to reach consensus. We are smart people, so we should be able to find a way, however long it takes. And one way to start on that road is to de-escalate, to WP:AGF and to WP:CHILL: if people do crap, revert them, if they continue to do crap, go to WP:DR. But if there is a lesson to be learned is that wikipedia will not let narrative wars get in the way on writting an encyclopedia: it has time and again gone against narrative pushers - be it in IP/AI or in abortion or Evolution v Intelligent Design or any of the major controversies. We all need thicker skins, and a more focused approach. And probably talk more and shout less. ;) --Cerejota (talk) 19:33, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah but the difference between me and Nableezy is that I try to avoid editing as much as possible. When I see Nableezy POV-pushing, I don't make talk sections like "The Case against Nableezy." I make one lousy revert and there is a 15 paragraph discussion about why I'm the source of all our problems. totally fucked up. Wikifan12345 (talk) 20:53, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I understand and empathize. And while you don't jump, but others do - the first recorded instance of a username in a section was my name. You see my point. I agree with you that section was not needed, but at the same time, more discussion is needed - TLDR doesn't apply here, because the more we leave unsaid, the more people fill in the blanks with their preconceived notions.

The fact is the biggest problem is the "us v them" mentality: it makes one automatically oppose whatever one editor makes, and support whatever another editor makes. This is the root cause of our problems, and all sides are guilty - and this has included me at times. When we do this, we lose all credibility. In fact, there is stuff in the article that I do not agree with, but it seems every RS does, so fuck it, include it - if we all adopted this criteria the problems would go up in smoke. All we would have is interesting debates around around wording and the reliability of sources - instead of heavily personalized behavorial issues (and mind you - I am engaged on that too). All it would take for this to happen is for someone to step up and be the Rabin of this peace process.--Cerejota (talk) 21:04, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Haha yeah but I doubt the situation will change. Save from everyone whose been deemed POV-pushing or collective doing so (i.e, Darwish, Nab, untirl basically high-fiving each other) then the situation will continue. The article is so big and bloated it's hard to police it, and when it is people bitch and that takes up another 100kb of space. Wikifan12345 (talk) 21:12, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Misleading claims

Cerejota, I really care about my view by other editors I deeply respect. Wikifan has several times claimed that my edit that he reverted removed the IDF statement. This is wrong, and it never happened. I never do such behavior. Please check the edits by yourself, it just purely added the UN statement. Wikifan has several times repeated such wrong claim to make it appear as the truth; I urge you to see the edits by yourself before doing judgments. Thanks! --Darwish (talk) 10:55, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Darwish, I know this to be the case. And this is trivial to verify using tools. I think this might be a mistake of history following... Some wiseman said that these here wikipedia is the mix of our idiocies ;). So, identify idiocy, and handle it appropiately, come from whoever it comes: first deal with the attribution issues in the talk page of the user (in this case, wikifan), then with the debate around additions in the article page. Somethign that always serves right is to find the diff of whoever actually removed the IDF figures.

I do not care who removed the material, I think it belongs, thats my sole point. We really need to start depersonalizing this stuff, except when it is really personal. I think you are usually very good with your edits, and a lot of the uncontroversial material comes from you, editors from all sides should recognize this. Just don't mirror the behavior that isolates and identifies editors, unless they are being really disruptive. --Cerejota (talk) 19:15, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

So Darwish gets a free pass because he's made "good edits" before? Let's see, he wrote 2 show-trial sections basically complaining about my edits/reverts which have been proven to be of little importance and/or unnecessary, or the result of refusing to honor good-faith policy. He's followed me to various talk discussions, I think he may be in my noticeboard one..oh, and he groups up with Nab, Unt, and all else he "identifies" with while he makes "very good edits" which "all editors should recognize." Give me a break, Darwish is being disruptive by constantly pausing every discussion with "The Case Again Wikifan." You truly think this behavior is appropriate Cerejota? Let's assume for a second that everything he claims is true and I'm the worst editor here, does that really justify his attacks and personal wars?? Considering this, I think Darwish easily qualifies as a wikihounder. I'm not denying his wonderful and grand contributions to wikipedia, but he's been singling me out which I've largely ignored but his threats are beyond annoying. Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:54, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

No I do not, but I believe in talkign with people before jumping around. Before I took TB to AE, I made many attempts, including his talk page to communicate. I really don't give a fuck if people expect me to be neutral or not, or consistent or not, I am me. I do try to be fair If you re-read my point, you will see I am actually asking him to pursue the matter differently - and you can see my comments on the matter. I understand you feel singled out - which is why I asked Darwish not to do it.

Your response, that I am giving a free pass is uncalled for: I am not. I am trying to de-escalate. I hope you see the difference.--Cerejota (talk) 07:23, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Not you specifically, but just the attitude. I make a mistake and it's a trial, but anyone else (including Darwish) can continue to violate rules without notice. It's especially insulting when people start acting self-righteous like Darwish is right now, ffs man. Wikifan12345 (talk) 07:35, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I know how that can feel. However, I am not sure Darwish gets free passes - I am somewhat more diplomatic dealing with your case because you and me have a history, but your buddies do stand up for you - you are certainly not alone. Let them do it. In fact, look at how things go down. You remember how at the start of the article I would tell you to WP:CHILL. You thought I was fucking with you, but I am not - its not the end of the world, let it slide. You have my word, I will be less diplomatic if things out of DR happen, such as naming people on section headers. But I find it hard to defend you if your response is always thermonuclear: trolls require care and feeding, and you are a classic troll feeder, to the point you start turning green yourself sometimes :D. Witness how Non-Zionist is not around anymore: he got called on his trolling ways, by me. TLDR threads are preferable to edit wars, and usually at the end some sort of solution emerges. Accusation fly, people totally fail to AGF, then we kiss and make up (or at least retreat to regroup) until the next round.

You cannot possibly expect people who disagree with you to suddenly agree with you, nor can you expect them to ignore the history. Just because I can, doesn't mean everyone can. Perhaps you guys need to pursue some sort of mediation over this, WP:MEDCAB might be good. Sometimes and uninvolved third party can help. I learned a lot from my previous experiences, both about myself and how wikipedia actually works... --Cerejota (talk) 07:51, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

But the major difference is that we are not equals. I am continually called on and named even in the simplest of arguments, such as bleh, or using pictures/format from my userpage for satirical pics expressing a "troll" that clearly points to me: DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE WIKIFAN IS A TOTAL TROLL, or Darwish/Nab patting each other on the back back rubbing. I actually laughed at the danger high voltage thing, go to the behavior section and you'll see it. So funny. But seriously, is that allowed? Anyways, point is: I continue to pay the price for any alleged (true or false) behaviors through harassment, false-accusations, justified and unjustified blocks and ridiculous unnecessary noticeboard discussion where Nab and Dar also lend their wonderfully objective opinion. It's not so much us butting heads as it is me using a bat and them using a gun. Unfair fight more like it. I'm doing the best I can to avoid confrontation but at times it is necessary, and even when being cordial they know who I am so it's a self-fulling prophecy. I just don't want all this evidence, which 95% is total b.s to be used in a future class-action 100 million dollar lawsuit against Wikifan12345. :D Wikifan12345 (talk) 08:17, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Ooh, very well written and convincing Cerejota. I completely agree and I'll strike the latest accusation paragraph as a mean of good will. Thanks for being an "honest" supporter. --Darwish (talk) 16:13, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Done. --Darwish (talk) 16:40, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I should have messaged you first

Hey man - I know you messaged me about the POV tag and as a matter of courtesy I probably should have responded to you before I wrote on the talk page. My opinion differs from yours and I don't apologize for it, but my intentions are noble and I do try to be courteous.

Warm regards and a sincere thank you for your ongoing contribution. Betacrucis (talk) 13:37, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I know your intentions are good. But so are those of the editors who do not share your view. On the specific tagging issue, there is the aesthetic considerations I have raised regarding redundancy etc, but there is also the more substantial one of why the tags. Tags should never be placed to "simply" mark or tatoo an article: an argument should be made as to why teh tags ar ebeing placed, to allow editors to ponder and consider edits that lead to the removal of the tags. My point is that you have not presented such arguments or those arguments do not warrant tagging.--Cerejota (talk) 19:38, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Cheers, Cerejota. But I did make those arguments - articulately - in the section about the neutrality tag. I can't see how I could have been clearer. Betacrucis (talk) 15:54, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

babycue

I dont want to put this on the article talk, not really relevant to the article, but my problem with 'babycue' is that it is a play on words, aka a type of joke, about something that I personally would rather not see joked about. I am probably being over sensitive about this, which is why I havent said anything before, but the picture is about something serious and does bring out pretty strong emotions, so seeing it being dealt with so lightly can be a lil hard. Nothing personal, I have seen you try to diffuse other problems with humor, but this one just bothers me. I wont bring it up again, but you asked why I didnt want to use that term so I thought Id let you know. Peace, Nableezy (talk) 22:04, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Ok, so I won't use it.--Cerejota (talk) 22:18, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Why thank you, and if brevity is what you are looking for I think 'ISM baby pic' would work and people will know what you are referring to. Nableezy (talk) 23:08, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Also, the line 'I call a spade a spade it just is what it is' was from a 2pac song, 'Wonder Why They Call U (expletive removed)' that Jay-Z used later. Nobody else answered it, but I think we should follow Jeopardy rules and say you are currently at -5 pretend dollars. But there is a chance for redemption, 10 pretend dollars will be awarded if you can name the artist who gave us this gem: "Chicago aint a city its a nation" (was going to use that in the density discussion when trying to compare Gaza to Chicago). Nableezy (talk) 23:12, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Twista. Give me my ten bucks!--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 23:14, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

All right, all is forgiven with that. Nableezy (talk) 00:54, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

...and again

Your contribution to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Antisemitic incidents during the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict (2nd nomination), would be most welcome, as you have been both a prudent and critical editor of the article and a nuanced contributor to the previous discussion. And just generally you're cool. Don't let my comments go to your head. Jalapenos do exist (talk) 00:29, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

See my response. This is misuse of process after a recent DRV, but since chances are this will be allowed to run its course, I also added a reasoning for strong keep.--Cerejota (talk) 05:26, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Yup

Gotchya. Just finished reading Nableezy's rant on one of my noticeboard and then his response on separate section at talk.  : ( Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:18, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Noticeboards?--Cerejota (talk) 02:24, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Sadly. Houndog— Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikifan12345 (talk • contribs)

Couple of lessons for ya:

1) Do not call or claim you are being called racist, it will lead down nasty roads, because it will (its a circular, fractal thing)

2) People who go around adding ancestry do so for a number of reasons, not always positive - last big blow up with "outing" Jewish figures was done by a nazi to "prove" Jewish infiltration - so the community is weary of obsessive editing of nationalities. In fact, the community is weary of anything obsessive. Search "Betacommand" for an object lesson - one of the most productive admins and contributors who got in hot water for being obsessive.

3) Go to the deacon of "Jewpedia", User:Jayjg, he and I don't always look eye to eye, but he has done a lot for WP:JEW, and when I say a lot, I mean a lot, which you should probably join, he can probably point you in the direction of others doing similar efforts. I understand the impulse of national identification, we do the same thing at WP:PUR, but its better and less painful if you are mentored by older wikipedians, wo would protect and nurture your efforts, and make sure you don't get noticeboarded, in part by pointing out in an environment of trust that you are fucking up :D.

4) Never try to tell someone they are somethign they deny, even if true, it is soapboxing, has elements of WP:OUTING, and can definitely be interpreted as harrassment. Even if that is not your intention, it doesn't matter, harrasment is easy to not do: stop talking to the person in their talk page.

5) There have been many more before you who have done the same mistakes. Some have left in disgust, unable to adapt. Others, well, they grow up and make amazing articles. Some like me, just like it extreme :).--Cerejota (talk) 02:51, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

I understand, I need to become more familiar with the process. It's not like I'm not trying lol. Well, I recently made this article all on my own: James G. Lindsay. Yaaayyyy. I'm all grown up. : - ( Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:56, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Try to get some secondary sources in to establish notability or it will get challenged. Since I am member in good standing of m:Association of Wikipedians Who Dislike Making Broad Judgments About the Worthiness of a General Category of Article, and Who Are in Favor of the Deletion of Some Particularly Bad Articles, but That Doesn't Mean They Are Deletionists, I am not doing it, but you should work on this, or it will get deleted. --Cerejota (talk) 03:01, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah we're in the process now, but we wanted to at least make it comparable to Peter Hanson which I think we've done. I don't think it qualifies for deletion as the WI is a reliable source since Lindsay is employed their and we also included UN-sources for the criticisms. We also have Jpost for the interview, BBC, and CNN. Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:05, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

That might not fly with WP:DELETIONISTs. Anyways, give the exact same response you gave me here in the article's talk page.--Cerejota (talk) 03:10, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Responded. Wikifan12345 (talk) 03:19, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Fine.

I honestly don't care. He is trying to justify his behavior while I'm doing my best to explain to him what he (or Nableezy) did incorrectly. Re-read the discussion, this isn't a time for intervention Cerejota. I didn't do anything wrong here, does wiki allows allow users to constantly use personal incidents in the past as argument? I'm trying to edit according to the rules but it's basically impossible when people act like children. Is there something wrong with what I said, specifically, in that actual section? It's becoming quite an issue, especially when it derails important discussion into a wikifan bandwagon. Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:08, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I am not into the discussion (and I tend on this particular one to agree with your argument). I am talking about how you are vulnerable to such strawmaning for previous incidents, and how one has a responsibility to de-escalate. And for example, describing people as "children", for simply being in total disagreement with you (which they have every right to be), is precisely what one calls "patronzing". For the most part these are adults, to a certain extent smart and articulate, and you will definitely get a negative response if you question that premise. Call them POV pushers, but call them "children" and You Just Lost The Game. That is why we have WP:AGF, not as a stick to beat people with, but as a Zen-like state of mind. --Cerejota (talk) 02:15, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, by children I mean naive and ignorant, not POV-pushing because seemed confuse and totally uneducated about what the actual section and what me and Nableezy are about. His first response was, "Stop scrabbling." That makes me feel like a child, mmmk? I can't possibly be responsible for every users opinion of me and I don't intend to right every alleged-wrong, I just pointed out a problem and explained the issue in a straight-forward "cordial" manner. Everyone seems to feel perfectly fine in calling me a retard, saying they'll ignore me, etc...and I personally don't care, but this is another double-standard which is rather irritating. If you think something is up by all means respond in the section. Next time I'm expected to de-escalate add hearts and flowers. :D Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:22, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, read my response: Talk:2008–2009_Israel–Gaza_conflict#Internal_Violence.--Cerejota (talk) 02:32, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Dixie/Mundo

I have looked at it, and I think the reaction was a bit extreme, but I am loathe to summarily overturn Drini without him being able to respond. I would suggest dropping a note on WP:ANI, and if enough sysops agree, then it would be an easier overturn. -- Avi (talk) 06:16, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I would wait until the second unblock is processed, I am weary of WP:DRAMA :D... --Cerejota (talk) 06:20, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

• I have unblocked User: Jumdo on the grounds that a block should be used only as a last resort after all attempts to an open civil dialogue between the parties involved over issues have failed. Tony the Marine (talk) 14:32, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		Thanks for strengthening my faith in Misplaced Pages. Keep up the great work. J.Mundo (talk) 17:47, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I can´t make fancy barnstars yet, but thank you. It sems that Jmundo has been fully vindicated, while I still have a pall cast over me.Die4Dixie (talk) 20:25, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

No, you were unblocked by Drini, Jmundo was unblocked by a different admin. Drini won't apologize, and won't even recognize what he did wrong, unfortunately. --Cerejota (talk) 21:25, 18 February 2009 (UTC)