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Puzzled

I am puzzled and frankly a bit offended by this comment on RFAr: "As pointed out by bainer, since the Community has not reached consensus on a policy/guideline on the topic, we have repeated cycles of the issue causing content disputes. The Community needs to find a way to write this policy and not look to the Committee to do it through Committee ruling that causes a back door policy decision that one side can link to in future discussions."

I am hard-pressed, with the exception of Randomran, to find anyone commenting on this request who has been more involved than I have in developing a consensus about notability. There is an active policy discussion on this, and I've worked hard on it - unlike, frankly, any of the arbcom or TTN. I filed this request because mass deletion requests are an active hindrance to general consensus, because deletion is a hostile process. My assumption was that this reasoning was why TTN's previous engagement in this behavior - editing purely to merge articles and delete them without any attempt at discussion - was sanctioned. Because it was an active impediment to consensus building.

Even if the arbcom wishes to get away from this issue and not issue any further rulings on it - a change of policy I can understand, even if I find it deeply regrettable, I greatly resent the claim that, by bringing this request, I am somehow looking to the Committee to create a back door policy.

I recognize that the committee is deeply disinclined to step into any issue involving notability (though I would ask where, in the absence of the committee, they foresee any sort of leadership on this issue coming from). But I wish that the committee would simply say that instead of accusing me of trying to back door policy when all I was doing was asking the committee to step in on an issue they had previously ruled upon. That accusation is unwarranted and offensive. Phil Sandifer (talk) 16:46, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Given that the Committee answered a query about the situation already, I do not think that our response is surprising. Reading the comments of the users on the request page, I note that as usual, the editors involved in the situation see the issue somewhat differently than other users that are not involved. FloNight♥♥♥ 17:39, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I was, it should be noted, unaware of the previous query - I had inquired idly on the mailing list as to why TTN had not been brought back to arbcom for his behavior, and nobody indicated that the answer was "actually, he has." Indeed, Matthew Brown seemed unaware that he had, and the archiving for rejected requests does not make finding out key pieces of information like that terribly easy.

As for the comment about involved users, I'm not sure what you're driving at. I am barely involved, frankly - I've had no real dealings with TTN. I mostly discovered the situation when I was trying to get some data on the practical question of what AfD does and doesn't keep, and discovered his nominations, which I found somewhat problematic. So again, I'd have to say that I don't feel like I should be lumped in with the group you're trying to lump me in with. Phil Sandifer (talk) 21:32, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

In my view you're involved because, as you state above, you have a stronger opinion than the average user about the issue. Some users feel that many Afds are needed to keep the non-notable articles thinned out. You see deletion as a hostile process and feel that the Afds are a hindrance. FloNight♥♥♥ 21:47, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Your determination to lump users into easily defined categories in lieu of actually looking at what is being said is regrettable. Phil Sandifer (talk) 13:16, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

While I still disagree with you on the matter with Steve, thank you for taking the time to explain the situation with me. I know I can come off as.. demanding.. and being an arb is not an easy job. I greatly appreciate it. -- Ned Scott 00:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. :-) Take care, FloNight♥♥♥ 19:55, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Happy FloNight's Day!

User:FloNight has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as FloNight's day! For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian, enjoy being the Star of the day, dear FloNight! Peace, Rlevse ~ A record of your Day will always be kept here.

Thank you. This is very kind of you. FloNight♥♥♥ 10:20, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:EVula/Userboxes/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:43, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Milhist

Hi! I see you're a member of the American Civil War task force but not of the Military history wikiproject itself. Would you like to sign up? You can do so here. Thanks in advance, --ROGER DAVIES  11:13, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the link, I added my name. FloNight♥♥♥ 11:43, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you :) Here's the standard Welcome message. Please delete it if it's telling you how to suck eggs :)

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Your suggestion

Per your suggestion I've filed Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Hemanshu, but since he hasn't responded in over a year to inquiries, I'm not exactly optimistic on him responding to it. MBisanz 01:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Ginger Jolie deletion

I urge you to reconsider your stance. Your comments regarding DRV are particularly inapposite. Since the Committee has established the policy committing a decision to the discretion of a single, self-selected adminstrator when the community is divided (and, in theory, even if it is not), the decision in a matter like this is procedurally correct, whatever its outcome. This is a problem created by the Arbitration Committee, and only it can resolve it. As you accurately state, this is a "community matter," and a major part of the problem is that the decision was taken from the hands of the community and decided by the preferences of a single, self-selected administrator. Minos P. Dautrieve (talk) 12:49, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Case needs intervention

I request some urgent arbitrator's intervention into the pages of Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Piotrus 2 and I am leaving this same note to all four Arbitrators who commented on the case so far.

The pages of the case have deteriorated beyond reasonable due to the conduct of some of the case participants. Please take a look at this new section of evidence for details. Yes, many bitter cases are filled with nonsense claims but there must be a limit to how much outright crankery can be tolerated at the ArbCom cases without any action taken.

Case' pages being turned into a total mess adversely affects the chances of the cohesive outcome. Too much nonsense in the cases pages buries the constructive entries and make the whole pages unreadable or incomprehensible. This leads to the arbitrators' non-participation in the discussions, which, in turn, brings, and I am not going to sugar-coat this, the case's outcomes being often too disconnected from actual concerns raised at its pages. This is why, I am calling for a rather unusual remedy to be applied to a case itself.

I would like to request that some aggressive clerk-like work is applied to the pages of the case: the workshop and the evidence. This cannot be left to clerks since this requires application of the discretion on the cases merits beyond the freedom given to clerks. If you could go over the current evidence and workshop pages and aggressively remove the patent nonsense and senseless rants (including my own entries if they are perceived as such), the benefit would be two-fold. First, it would make case pages more readable and, thus, more useful. Second, it would send a strong message to all parties that their conduct in the case is being monitored and may have consequences that would, hopefully, switch everyone to a more constructive mode. When looking at the pages you would see at once that the nonsense there is abundant and its presence disrupts the case.

I am not requesting any sanctions against anyone at this point. All I am asking is to return some normalcy to the case' pages.

Thank you in advance. --Irpen 21:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

After requesting "ethical_conduct" from ArbCom, Irpen found my evidence so important that he decided to intervene contrary to his own request. I replied here (please see "bare facts").Biophys (talk) 16:04, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Comment on proposal posted

I am leaving this note at the talk pages of four arbitrators who so far commented on the Piotrus_2 arbcom. Just letting you know that I posted a general comment on the workshop proposal by Kirill Lokshin to the workshop's talk page. Regards, --Irpen 19:11, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I'll look. FloNight♥♥♥ 19:21, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Martinphi

Flonight, I am not Science Apologist. You seem to be mistaking me for him.

After my FIRST post EVER to Arbcom about Martinphi (unless you count the request for clarification on the Paranormal case to be specifically about Martinphi), you have publicly stated thee Arbcom knows full well my opinion, and I should shut up and let other people speak. This was my first time speaking on the matter. I am NOT Science Apoologist, I am not under any Arbcom restrictions for POV-pushing. Would you care to retract or rewrite your comment.person, you know. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 19:53, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

g'day Flo

Hi Flo - I hope you're well, and I thought I'd swing by here with a request re the User:Steve Crossin matter - I feel like I've dug around in quite a lot of detail at this point (you can see here what I've read up on), and in particular I found this diff very useful in clearing stuff up.

I also noticed that the WP:RFAR page is kinda quiet at the mo. so I thought I'd strike (again!) while the iron was, well, cold I guess :-)

I've chatted with Steve a bit about this, and it's clear to me that he would like to edit again as soon as possible, and if banned, would like to be able to make a statement of some sort (I feel fairly sure that others might wish to comment too, so perhaps a semi-formal 'evidence', 'workshop' process is actually a reasonable fit?). This isn't my call, of course, though - but what I would ask is that the 'internal committee vote' you refer to is formally certified 'on wiki' - some uncertainty remains in my mind over this, and it would no doubt help others to maintain Misplaced Pages:Editing_restrictions#Placed_by_the_Arbitration_Committee (I'm happy to update that page when this is cleared up etc. :-)

I'm happy to talk further about why I believe this is the best course of action for both the project, and for Steve - essentially it boils down to my belief that clarity is kind :-)

huge thanks for helping with this one in any way possible! cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 22:32, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Proposed decision - Abtract-Collectonian

In under 19 hours, this case will be two weeks old soon. All proposals pass, and one move to close has been made. If you could kindly hop on over to this page and vote on closing, that'd be great. Cheers :) Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:45, 28 October 2008 (UTC)  Done

Can't get much more prompt than that - appreciate it (and your thoughts, as always). :D Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:53, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

No problem. FloNight♥♥♥ 18:22, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

You got email

White Cat, look for an email from me. FloNight♥♥♥ 15:34, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

My response and the only comment I will make on the matter is utter disappointment at arbcom. The ban was placed by the community, not arbcom. It would be strange for arbcom to lift a ban arbcom did not even went as far as endorsing. Arbcom did not even accept the Jack Merridew arbcom case as "he was already community blocked". The user has been indef banned like three times and you are willing to lift that. It hasn't even been a year. I do want to remind arbcom that they went out of their way to even talk about lifting my three-year-old mediation ban. To an untrained eye (my eye) it seems like arbcom only and only rewards extremely poor conduct such has harassment going on for years. -- Cat 07:01, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

While I do not normally expect prompt responses, I'd welcome a response before arbcom decides on the matter. -- Cat 18:38, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Since arbcom is not willing to be the solution to this problem and insists on being the source it, I have brought this matter into Jimbo's attention. I do not know if he will get involved. I hope he does. I am tired of dealing with this issue which will soon celebrate its fifth anniversary as of 12 May 2009. -- Cat 21:55, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

White Cat, I'll listen to Jimbo's thoughts, of course. But if he can edit without bother you, then I think we should let him come back. Jack Merridew will be under editing restrictions that will keep him completely away from you and from commenting about you. One or more experienced users will be monitoring his contributions to make sure that he is not bothering you in any way. I made the restrictions strict in this way because of the problems that you had in the past. I think we should give it a chance to work, truly. FloNight♥♥♥ 22:08, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

We already tried that in commons. That didn't quite stop him. After his ban from en.wikipedia his first few edits on commons were stalking which has seemingly stopped. He doesn't make any edits there anymore.

This user had no useful contributions. He dedicated his time in removing my work. Weather it is Turkey related topics, or weather it is Anime related topics or any other topics I care about like mass removing episode and character articles. His ban here has not lasted half a year. Has it been quarter of a year?

Arbcom wasn't willing to lift my mediation ban. Why is arbcom removing Jack Merridew's ban? Is he more worthy to the community than I? I really want to know.

I demand arbcom to document their reasoning in detail why I am even having this conversation with arbcom. Jack Merridew is a sanctioned troll, sockpuppeter convicted multiple times in harassing multiple users. He had absolutely no useful contribution for the past few years aside from an edit pattern that closely resembles User:TTN who IIRC was banned by arbcom for it.

-- Cat 22:38, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

On an unrelated note, I would recommend arbcommers to comment on the WP:VPP#A wiki equavalent of CSI (developing idea) thread. The proposal should be shaped to meet the needs of arbcom above everything else after all. -- Cat 07:01, 29 October 2008 (UTC)