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adding pictures

Hi, I need help on adding pictures on pages especially from the USA where I have my own hundreds of pictures taken from many historical places, national and state parks Garteners (talk) 08:50, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Garteners Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. If you took the images yourself, you may upload them according to the instructions at WP:UPIMAGE. If you didn't take them yourself, it is much harder as copyright needs to be determined. What specific help do you need? 331dot (talk) 08:52, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks 331dot

All pictures are mine most of them are taken with a Nicon Coolpix p1000 and other cameras. ( I am an amateur photographer )

I have some great ones from Antelope Canyon, Death Valley, Racetrack playa, Yellowstone, Badlands, Arches and Canyonlands, Devils Tower, Denali Alaska etc...I want to know how do I add them on a wiki page ( lets say Antelope Canyon or Four Corners etc..) using html code.

Thanks in advance!! Garteners (talk) 11:59, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

@Gartners: Misplaced Pages is always looking for high quality appropriately licensed photos, but it generally preferred that you upload such photos to Misplaced Pages's sister project Wikimedia Commons. You probably should, however, take a close look at c:Commons:Licensing, c:Commons:Derivative works, c:Commons:License revocation, c:Commons:Reusing content outside Wikimedia and c:Commons:Enforcing license terms before you start uploading anything just to make sure you understand what it means to upload your photos to Misplaced Pages or Commons. You may want your photos to be used in Misplaced Pages articles, but there's no 100% guarantee that such a thing will happen. If other members of the Misplaced Pages community feel that you're photos aren't improvements to the articles in question, you may have to establish a consensus in favor of using them on the relevant articles talk page. One other thing to consider is that even if the photos do end up being used in Misplaced Pages articles, there's no way to limit their reuse to only Misplaced Pages. Others will be able to freely download the photos and use them in pretty much any way they want without out needing to get your permission each time they want to do so as long as they comply with the terms of whatever copyright license you choose. I'm not trying to discourage you from uploading your photos, but you should understand what that entails and make sure it's something you want to do. -- Marchjuly (talk) 12:20, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Marchury! Garteners (talk) 18:41, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Updating page - other user has issue with - please let me know where I am going wrong

Can you please outline to me what of the following necessitates repeated deletion:

Page is Glencoe Ski area - I am adding the following to the bottom of the listing, as the primary activity of the resort in the summer is mountain biking, but there is no detail on it.

Citations for the following:

https://www.glencoescotland.com/see-do/mountain-biking/

https://www.crerarhotels.com/blog/archive/cycling-trails-in-glencoe/

https://www.trailforks.com/region/glencoe-1454444506/?activitytype=1&z=13.2&lat=56.62272&lon=-4.83369

https://www.glencoemountain.co.uk/mountain-biking/

Mountain Biking

Glencoe Mountain Resort has 5 mountain bike trails accessed via the Access Chair; a 2 person chair that you hook your bike onto via the seatpost. The chairlift takes about 15 minutes to bring you from 1200 feet at the car park to 2200 feet at the top of the chair. The minimum age for lift accessed mountain biking is 10, and children under 16 must be accompanied by an adult.

The end of the black downhill mountain bike trail

Downhill Trails

The access road is available to ride down.

Red downhill

This trail is over 1km long with over 200m vertical descent, and is built up of four sections of downhill trails, so you can pick and choose your way down. It includes a mix of fast flowy berms and sections of rock gardens, but all features are roll-able.

Black downhill

This 900m long, 250m vertical descent trail was originally made in 2006 For the Scottish Downhill association, it snakes its way down Meall a' Bhuiridh hillside alongside a waterfall. This track now has a dedicated drop in and is designed around experienced downhill riders with technical terrain from top to bottom. You will encounter rock gardens, drops, exposed rock faces and jumps.

XC / Enduro Trails

Once at the top of our chairlift, you can use the access road to take a pedal to the cross country routes.

Nae Danger (blue)

Starts from the top of the chairlift. Then pedal your way up the land rover track towards our scenic Plateau Cafe (closed in summer). Ride your way over a mix of single track towards Craig Dhubh to then loop back towards the land rover track to finish this 1.5km circuit.

Epic Glades (red)

Slightly further up the mountain lies the red cross country trail Epic Glades. The route requires a climb up past the Plateau Cafe (closed in summer) up past our the Rannoch chair. The road then ends and the track begins; a steep climb gets you to the top of Cliffhanger chairlift before levelling out as you go past the base of the top lifts, the ski patrol shed and the top of the wall T bar. The track then follows the ridgeline with views out to Glen Etive and Buachaille Etive Mor before dropping back down and joining the blue cross country, then re-joining the access road. On the way down, expect loose rocks, drops, catchy berm corners and singletrack.

Loop de Dhubh (black)

Continues on where Epic Glades leaves off; riding along the ridgeline until you loosely reach the summit of Creag Dhubh, where it’s worth stopping to take in the views. Then a short, steep, rocky section with several drops takes you back to the walkers track and back to the access road. Do look out for walkers.

SnowsportsJames (talk) 15:50, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to the teahouse as I suggested. To be clear, I am the second editor to revert your addition. For the benefit of others, this is original research WP:OR. It also fails WP:NOTTRAVEL. Good luck coming up with information to improve the article that is properly sourced. 10mmsocket (talk) 15:53, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, found the 'Teahouse' hopefully someone there can be a bit more helpful. It quite simply is not original research; look at the sources and see if you can synthesise anything more useful from it rather than just wholesale deleting it. It is a description of the routes on the mountain, which is currently missing from the article. I provided 4 sources for you - I fail to see how this is not properly sourced.

I think it is more likely you simply do not like me making changes, regardless of the content. SnowsportsJames (talk) 15:57, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

It is not encyclopedically written. This is a travel guide, not an encyclopedia article. Please read MOS:YOU and WP:NOTHOWTO. Julietdeltalima (talk) 16:19, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Please discuss these disputed additions on the appropriate talk page, as I explained below. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:20, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Hey thanks for the message. Could you be more specific - this is not a travel guide - it is a description of the trails.

Would you suggest there be NO description of the trails? SnowsportsJames (talk) 16:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

@SnowsportsJames, please have this discussion on the talk page. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:23, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @SnowsportsJames, welcome to the Teahouse. This is not a place to carry on content disputes. You should discuss disputed edits on the talk page of the appropriate article - in this case, apparently, Talk:Glencoe Ski area, where there have been no posts as of yet. If discussion on the talk page can't resolve the issue, follow the further steps outlined at WP:Dispute resolution. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:20, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I have chatted with the other user who wants the article to remain as is - I was advised by them to go to the teahouse. Look, all I'm trying to do is update the information to make it more accurate - directing me to go to another area doesn't help with that. I'm really, genuinely just trying to be helpful by updating the article. SnowsportsJames (talk) 16:23, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

@SnowsportsJames, an article's talk page is the appropriate place to discuss article content, not the Teahouse. This is a place to get general help with using or editing Misplaced Pages - not to discuss or settle specific disputes. If you want to see this content added, the talk page is the place to go. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:27, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

That's really unhelpful. SnowsportsJames has come here asking for help. Please assume good faith and let him receive advise from others, as @Julietdeltalima has given. 10mmsocket (talk) 16:28, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

@10mmsocket, the talk page is the place to discuss such things. I'm not sure why you directed them here instead of there. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:30, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

OK, I've put it on the talk page of the article I was trying to edit: Talk:Glencoe Ski area#Adding additional detail. If anyone is feeling helpful feel free to take a look and edit to be more 'Wikipedian'. I'm new to this and just getting passed around like it's a call centre - been a very negative experience all round just trying to update an article.

What I would appreciate however is not just wholesale deletion, but some specific feedback - e.g. when you say this word, it is not 3rd person, this citation needs to here, not there, etc. SnowsportsJames (talk) 16:37, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I think it is less a dispute and more me just looking for actual help beyond 'read these various webpages' so that the accuracy and detail of the article can be improved. I'm not trying to subvert anything or annoy anyone, but genuinely figure this out so everyone benefits.

Perhaps someone could take a small section of the above and re-write it in the 'Misplaced Pages way' so I could get a better idea how to make this functional. That would be a better use of our collective time I hope. SnowsportsJames (talk) 16:27, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

SnowsportsJames, that content is highly promotional, non-neutral and has no place in the encyclopedia. We never address readers directly in the style of an instructional manual. This material will never be accepted into the encyclopedia in this form. What is your personal connection, if any, with this ski resort? Cullen328 (talk) 16:38, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Cullen 328, ah great - some specific feedback - so delete the 'you' etc. I work there, I'm not trying to hide that. But I am still trying to update it to include more full and complete information.

Is it the sections like 'It includes a mix of fast flowy berms and sections of rock gardens, but all features are roll-able.' that are seen to be highly promotional? I have left out words like 'fantastic' and tried to stick to description. SnowsportsJames (talk) 16:43, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

@SnowsportsJames, please read and comply with WP:PAID. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:44, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Wow, this whole thing is massively complicated - just looking to update the page in my free time. Have a look at my wikipedia profile and let me know where I am going wrong with that. Would appreciate actual specific advice, rather than being directed to pages - the whole thing is extremely technical and hard to get your head around as a first time editor. SnowsportsJames (talk) 16:48, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it can be, @SnowsportsJames, as many new editors discover. You will often find yourself being directed to pages which you are expected to read and understand; other folks may be willing to give you a quick summary, but Misplaced Pages involves much reading and digesting of written information. My advice is to slow down and start learning how Misplaced Pages works before charging ahead into areas where your conflict of interest will make things difficult - as you've seen. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:52, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks 199.208.172.35

To be honest with you the last hour and a half I have spent trying to do this has been just so deeply negative I'm just going to give up. SnowsportsJames (talk) 16:54, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

As a paid editor, SnowsportsJames, you are expected to be conversant with content policies and behavioral guidelines, instead of expecting unpaid volunteers to do your work for you. Cullen328 (talk) 16:56, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm doing this in my free time - I am volunteering too! I'm sorry this is just too complicated and I'm just going to leave it. You win. SnowsportsJames (talk) 16:57, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

@SnowsportsJames, that does happen with folks who start big instead of small, try editing about something in which they're deeply invested (for whatever reason), and find their efforts being reverted. Start small. Read the posts at places like the Teahouse and Help Desk. Gain experience. Then, perhaps, try again. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:58, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I was just trying to be helpful as I have useful knowledge on the topic. SnowsportsJames (talk) 17:00, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

@SnowsportsJames, the thing about Misplaced Pages - which is often hard to grasp at first - is that our personal knowledge on a topic isn't worth much, except as far as it helps us find other sources of information to use. I have a degree or two but I don't edit to add the knowledge I paid dearly for while earning those degrees. I edit to add other people's knowledge as published in reliable sources. Also to fix typos and other minor things which bug me. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:03, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi everyone. Thanks for your comments. Sorry to have used up anyone's valuable time unnecessarily. Misplaced Pages is just too difficult to use - already spent almost 2 hours just trying to add some basic info. I am no longer subscribing to this chat and no longer using Misplaced Pages again from this point forward. If I could delete my account, I would.

All the best. SnowsportsJames (talk) 17:06, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I totally agree with you, it needs to update to a more user friendly site, it seems it is only people who are trained in IT get it. The internet and information has become so much more easy update, but my head spins with Wiki, I feel like I'm going around in circles and never getting anywhere The Tea Set (talk) 08:28, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Changing a company name / page name

Hi Teahouse, How can we request or change the name of a company page? The company merged, but does still exist and we want to keep the information and history, but the name is no longer correct. It doesn't appear changeable in the fields? ChattyCathy1908 (talk) 16:10, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, if you're associated with the company, the correct thing to do is to post the request on the talk page associated with the article. There are quite a lot of resources that might help; you could start here: Misplaced Pages:Edit_Request_Wizard. Make sure that you give a very clear explanation of exactly what you want done, and give sources that justify any change (i.e. web links etc. to reliable places that will indicate that your changes are accurate). Please note that if the company was well-known under its former name, it may be considered appropriate to keep the article under the well-known name here. Elemimele (talk) 16:33, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

If you’re looking to rename the article, then you should look into the article moving process. Pablothepenguin (talk) 20:12, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Add item to infobox

Hi, I wanted to add an item to an infobox. However, all the items are numbered. Is there an easy way to add an item to the middle without having to renumber the second half of that infobox? Or is there some software to do that automatically? Thanks. I want to add a 'sucessor' item to Template:Infobox technology standard PhotographyEdits (talk) 18:31, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

@PhotographyEdits, there's a user script for infobox renumbering. I'm on mobile, but someone else can probably point you to it if you have trouble finding it. {{u|Sdkb}}  21:04, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

@Sdkb I found it and finished the job. Thanks a lot. PhotographyEdits (talk) 16:54, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Several references in one?

Howdy! As I go around workin' on articles and such, I've found that sometimes there seems to be one footnote that points to several references, all referred to under that one number. See here. I'm working on fixin' up some citation formations on a series of pages, and I wanted to know if that's something that should be reformatted into multiple different citations if I see it.

Thanks! ~Judy _{(job requests)} 19:27, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Janitor Judy that should be split into multiple footnotes. That way, if just one of the many sources is used somewhere else in the article (WP:NAMEDREF) then it can be much simpler to insert a footnote. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 19:48, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

What can happen, though, is that several citations are sometimes necessary to answer detractors (eg to do with Trump's Big Lie), and then another editor comes along, perhaps unfamiliar with an ongoing controversy, and adds an "excessive citations" inline clean-up tag. One workaround to that is to merge citations. (I put each citation on a new line, prefixed with a * to make a bullet, surrounded by one ref, to make it easier to decipher). Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 19:57, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Janitor Judy, the example that you point to is a quasi-footnote for the assertion However, while they are also member states of the Arab League, the Comoros, Djibouti, Mauritania, and Somalia (and sometimes the Sudan) are all geographically considered to be part of sub-Saharan Africa. Considering the purpose here, the number of sources cited seems reasonable to me. (With just one reference, another editor could reasonably object "No, all you've shown is that just one writer considers them so".) If there's little chance that the individual sources referenced here will also be referenced elsewhere in the article, I see no advantage to breaking this up into several quasi-references: doing so would merely add to the clutter. More generally, Sub-Saharan Africa is an article that appears to have been referenced with considerable care. This isn't to say that there can't be flaws in the referencing , but I'd think hard before barging in and rearranging the references. Instead, make a suggestion in the talk page (and don't expect immediate responses). If the subject of this article interests you, good: there are plenty of more pressing tasks than chopping up references. Here's a sample: Another prominent kingdom in southwestern Nigeria was the Kingdom of Benin 9th–11th century whose power lasted between the 15th and 19th century and was one of the greatest Empires of African history documented all over the world. Their dominance reached as far as the well-known city of Eko which was named Lagos by the Portuguese traders and other early European settlers. The Edo-speaking people of Benin are known for their famous bronze casting and rich coral, wealth, ancient science and technology and the Walls of Benin, which is the largest man-made structure in the world. Uh-huh. Centuries don't have power. What does "documented all over the world" add here? And according to whom? If places or skills are genuinely well-known or famous, then people won't need to be told that they're well-known or famous. The Walls "is"? That this or that edifice is "the largest man-made structure in the world" is a stunning claim; where's the evidence for it? Indeed, where are the sources for any part of this part-paragraph? -- Hoary (talk) 02:30, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks for your in-depth response, I'll definitely give the article a once over before I'm through with it and see to issues like that, and I'll for sure discuss whatever I'm unsure about. As for talk page expectations, don't worry, I ain't the impatient type. Lately I've been workin' on articles where nobody's touched the talk page for years. A real tragedy when you want clarification, but I suppose it's what it is sometimes.

However, in this case, you'll note that the example I point to in my first post is an old diff. The thing that brought me to this article is that a lot of references were contracted by the improper use of a bot a lil' while ago, and in fact in the article now, or at least at the time I came around here, that big ol' reference has been reduced to only the first one, and improperly-formatted even then (URL doesn't point to the relevant page, no date, no archive, etc.) on account of that whole fiasco. The main reason I was askin' around here was to know whether to restore it as one reference or a bunch of 'em. I hope that clear things up! ~Judy _{(job requests)} 20:16, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Vulgar lang at Fleer article

Misplaced Pages's article on Fleer, under the section entitled 'Bill Ripken' contains vulgar language. Why is this up on the web? 2601:640:C501:80D0:14F4:2CA:C226:7C95 (talk) 21:12, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not censored. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 21:26, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

That content is in Fleer because it actually happened and Misplaced Pages is not censored. Cullen328 (talk) 21:28, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages likes to document everything that happened. As such, it will record unwholesome language sometimes. I guess you could change it to say “a certain expletive” rather than what it currently says, but where’s the fun in that?Pablothepenguin (talk) 19:58, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Would the following passage be written like a travel guide (and if so, should it belong on Wikivoyage instead?)

Hello, I am currently copyediting the article Partipur, Rajasthan. I have came across a section which goes as follows:

"Nearest International Airport -SVBP International Airport, Ahmedabad - 240 km

Devi Ahilyabai Holkar International Airport, Indore - 255 km

Nearest Domestic Airport - Maharana Pratap Airport, Udaipur - 135 km

Nearest Railway station - Dungarpur Junction - 70km, Udaipur Junction - 135km, Ratlam Junction - 115 km, Dahod -107 km

Partapur are connected via bus to major or minor cities of Rajasthan, Gujrat, Madhya Pradesh and other states.

Area code for telephone is 0091-2963. And Zip Code is 327024."

I get the feeling that this specific passage isn't in an encyclopedic tone as it should be.

Thanks, TrademarkedTarantula (talk) 04:36, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

@TrademarkedTarantula, yes, that's definitely seemingly travel guide-esque. The only reason to include those destinations here would be to discuss their impact on the local economy/culture. {{u|Sdkb}}  05:41, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

TrademarkedTarantula, I have mixed feelings about this; but one thing I'm sure of is that in the context of demographics (as opposed to, say, geology), 2011 is not the present. Yet we read "as of 2011, the population of Partapur is 10,758 (not including the people in the age group 0-6)". Perhaps "in 2011, the population of Partapur was 10,758 (not including children under 7)"? -- Hoary (talk) 06:54, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

@TrademarkedTarantula: Welcome to the Teahouse. I come across those occasionally in articles about Indian cities. I usually delete them on sight and sometimes say it's better to put that content on the sister project WikiVoyage in an edit summary. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 14:04, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Deleted Article Access

I would like to access some deleted articles but have no knowledge on how to do so. Can someone provide some detailed steps on how to do it? Thanks in advance. HimSur9 (talk) 07:19, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @HimSur9: you cannot access deleted pages, that's kind of the point of deletion. You can ask the deleting admin if they would restore the content for you, but obviously you need to have a reason for asking, and not all deleted content will be restored anyway (eg. copyvios, attack pages, etc.). -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:50, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

if you're looking to get a draft deleted for inactivity restored, you can do so by putting up a request at Requests for undeletion. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 08:01, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

One method for doing this is applying for adminship, but this is a very frustrating and arduous process, as I have discovered myself. So, this might not be for you. Pablothepenguin (talk) 19:56, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Permission

Why are the permissions so inconsistent, sometimes I will be OK with up loading a file while at other times I'm told I dont have permission for others, even though I own the rights to everything I want to upload. I am surprised that the site is so overly complicated and confusing, when most websites today are so easy to navigate, you just drag a file. I don't know where I am half the time, I really want to help towards the continued success of Misplaced Pages and every year I donate at least $100 in support, but I find it so dated. I get that it is a dictionary so everything has to be verified and permission needs to be given on anything published. The other thing I find really confusing is the guidelines say it is not permitted to post on your own page, why? that is crazy, as long a you can verify the information, it's more likely that a third party will not have the correct information or permission, it's so bizarre. The Tea Set (talk) 08:23, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

The Tea Set Hello and welcome. You will need to change your username immediately, please visit Special:GlobalRenameRequest or WP:CHUS to make a username change request; usernames cannot be that of a group or organization(like a band) and must be individualistic.

I'm not sure which inconsistency you are referring to- but your account is not yet autoconfirmed because you do not yet have 10 edits(you do meet the other criterion as your account is more than four days old). There is such a thing as it being too easy to use a website for its purpose. It's also difficult to change a website that generally operates by consensus- even changing the default skin has been very controversial.

Thanks for donating, but donations are handled by the Wikimedia Foundation that collects them for operating the computers Misplaced Pages is on(as well as events to encourage editing, among other things). We editors have nothing to do with the donation process. 331dot (talk) 08:28, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Hold on, you cant use a band name, then how come there is a Rolling Stones page, a Depeche Mode page, etc etc, I'm confused, what purpose would it be to change the name. The Tea Set were a band between 1978 and 1981 so it's not like its contemporary group whose purpose it is to sell records. the idea is that people look up The Tea Set to find out the history so calling it Mable's Music Deep Dive misses the point. It's a barrage of instructions with each having it's own variations of choices, if you are not IT savvy (and I like to think of myself as more than competent in using the internet and creating various websites, but this is Red Tape out of control. I have noticed a few people who have the same criticism and they end up giving up, is that what you want, people giving up because it's too complicated, that isn't great business, instead you just say "oh too bad, thats the way it is, you'll just have to live with it" rather than saying the comments have been noted and have been passed on to the creators of the site and perhaps then if they receive enough of the same comments then. they might want to reassess things.

What exactly does an edit consist of? is it more like a chapter? an edit suggests you are changing something that already exists, again terminology that is confusing The Tea Set (talk) 08:47, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

The Tea Set It seems that you have confused creating an account with creating an article. Please see my comment immediately below. You edited User:The Tea Set, which is your user page for telling about yourself personally as a Misplaced Pages editor or user. It is not space to write an article(which theoretically would be located at The Tea Set, note the lack of "User:", though it is currently a redirect) New accounts cannot directly create articles and need to create and submit a draft. 331dot (talk) 08:51, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

As for "posting on your own page"; do you mean posting on your user page(which is certainly permitted), or posting on an article about your band? The latter is more restricted, but you may propose edits on the talk page, see conflict of interest and edit requests. 331dot (talk) 08:30, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

I would also note that you edited your user page ("User:The Tea Set") which is not article space. New accounts may not directly create articles, but may use Articles for Creation to create and submit a draft, 331dot (talk) 08:34, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Uh, actually Misplaced Pages is not a dictionary, it's an encyclopedia. (Although, oddly, Misplaced Pages does have articles about a number of terms, words, and even mere word forms, e.g. ain't.) -- Hoary (talk) 08:43, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

The Tea Set, above, you write The Tea Set were a band between 1978 and 1981 so it's not like its contemporary group whose purpose it is to sell records. On your user page, you write In 2019 The Tea Set signed to the World's largest independent record label Cleopatra Records. Which is it? -- Hoary (talk) 08:58, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Anyone want to add categories to Festuca_chrysophylla??

Anyone want to add categories to Festuca_chrysophylla? It has been tagged that it needed more categories. BloxyColaSweet (talk) 08:37, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Not me, BloxyColaSweet, because I know nothing of the subject. Well, if I assume that the first sentence -- "Festuca chrysophylla is a species of grass in the family Poaceae" -- is correct, then even I know that categorization as "Grasses", means that categorization as "Plants" is unwanted. Indeed, if it belongs to "Poaceae", then categorization as "Grasses" is unwanted. Et cetera. It might be beneficially categorized as some other subcategory/subcategories of "Grasses" -- "orthogonal", as people say, to "Poaceae". I suggest that you try to familiarize yourself with categorization. One good way is to examine the categorization of articles about related subjects, articles that seem to have been edited by experienced editors who know what they're doing. Many editors find categorization utterly baffling at first, but after half an hour or so of bafflement, pretty easy to grasp. -- Hoary (talk) 08:53, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Im sorry about your userpage. BloxyColaSweet (talk) 08:59, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Official web page: Invalid SSL certificate (expired)

Hi, should I temporarily unlink the official web site on an article if the SSL security certificate is invalid? It brings up a warning in my web browser (I could choose to ignore the warning and visit the site anyway):

Details: NET::ERR_CERT_DATE_INVALID: This server could not prove that it is alissic.co; its security certificate expired 190 days ago.

There's no point in changing the link to http, as that just redirects to https.

Thanks, Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 08:55, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

I recommend adding an archive link for people who are spooked away by the warning. Carpimaps (talk) 10:50, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, yes I did wonder about that. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 10:52, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

How would I source this?

A page for a semi-famous piece of lost media. Since most sources are open wikis and forum posts, how would I source it? Star Manatee (talk) 10:09, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

You should not source open wikis and forum posts as they are unreliable sources. See WP:USERG. Carpimaps (talk) 10:23, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, i know, that’s why I made this. Star Manatee (talk) 13:42, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

I see what you mean now. I was misinterpreting your question. Have you tried searching for sources on places outside Google? If not, this template may help. You should modify the search terms as needed.

Carpimaps (talk) 14:05, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

You seem to be asking about Draft:Hitogata (Lost media). The sources already cited look like junk. Maybe no better source exists. Maybe this lost thingie never even existed. Maybe it did exist but, even by Misplaced Pages's odd standards, it's stunningly trivial. Maybe it's a significant cultural something, and the article Ningen (folklore) will inspire you. -- Hoary (talk) 10:29, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

I do not know what you are trying to say. Yes, the sources already cited are junk - that is why I made this. It is true that “maybe it never even existed”, I’m not claiming it did. I’ll check out that article. Star Manatee (talk) 13:45, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Looking at the article, i think I get what you mean. I hadn’t thought of sourcing YouTube videos, but that would definitely help. The other stuff on the article also looks like it would help. Star Manatee (talk) 13:46, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, I’ve added a few YouTube videos as sources, there doesn’t appear to be coverage in the news besides from one article i found that doesn’t back up any sources. Star Manatee (talk) 14:57, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

This was a reply to Cardimaps, btw, it went to the bottom for whatever reason Star Manatee (talk) 14:58, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

You really shouldn't be citing YouTube videos unless the channel is ran by a reliable source. If those are all you can find, the subject may not be notable. Carpimaps (talk) 15:05, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

The video in question is an in-depth timeline that goes into heavy detail regarding the topic, and the channel is a non-fiction documentary channel that frequently makes videos about this kind of thing Star Manatee (talk) 15:58, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

@Star Manatee: Welcome to the Teahouse. The YouTube channel in question appears to be run by a single person, and I would question its editorial oversight. You are going to want to read WP:RSPYT:

Content uploaded from a verified official account, such as that of a news organization, may be treated as originating from the uploader and therefore inheriting their level of reliability.

If you think it's reliable you are going to want to discuss this at the reliable sources noticeboard. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:08, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Star Manatee (talk) 19:46, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Print to a file

How does one print a wikipedia article to a file, such as a MS Word file? ----RedYellowGreen1599 (talk) 10:28, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

you could look up "how to insert html into a word document". might be the easiest way to copy the exact look of wikipedia into word.

for display only it might be better to use PDF.

for editing, it might be better to only copy the text. Bart Terpstra (talk) 12:19, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

If you want a PDF file, try "Print/export | Download as PDF". -- Hoary (talk) 10:31, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Copy/pasting the article is probably sufficient in most cases. However, if you would like to preserve page formatting and images, etc, then your best bet is to use your browser’s view source function and copy all of the HTML code in it. This code can then be placed in a text editor, and then saved as a .html file. This will allow you to view it in a browser even offline. Be sure to download all of the images first. The page will, of course, only work properly if the images are in the same directory as the .html file you just created. Pablothepenguin (talk) 19:52, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

modern browsers support "save page as", which will download it as a single HTML page and also most assets on the page (fonts, images), which saves you from having to do it manually. Bart Terpstra (talk) 19:54, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Biography of living persons

If a notable person were to be born in Sevastopol in 2015, after the Russian annexation of Crimea, which is not recognized by a significant majority of countries, would their birthplace be marked as Sevastopol, Russia; or Sevastopol, Ukraine? Also wanted to know the answers for persons born in Estonia between 1945-1987, would their birthplace be marked with Estonia, or Estonian SSR? Thank you, Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 11:43, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Wikiexplorationandhelping, and welcome to the Teahouse. See MOS:BIRTHPLACE for more information. The page gives this advice: "Finally, in controversial or unclear cases, nationality is sometimes omitted.", which may be the best cause of action in this case. ContributeToTheWiki (talk) 14:00, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Ok understood. Appreciate the feedback! Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 17:32, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

what is the proper procedure for instantiating translated pages from non-english wiki to the english wiki?

I want to port several dutch pages to english, however, i am unclear what the correct sequencing is. https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Translation says to create a stub first, so that when the translated content shows up, it can have proper attribution.

When i submitted a minimum size stub, it got rejected for not having enough content, but to add content, i want to be able to copy the dutch wiki, but to copy the dutch wiki, i need the article to already be a valid stub. I see no point in being creative either, just so i can go around this arbitrary rule conflict.

what do i do?

is there an example of a minimum size stub? is there a template for stubs (as in, text, not a {template:}) Bart Terpstra (talk) 12:16, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Bart Terpstra. Do you yourself want to translate articles from Dutch Misplaced Pages onto English Misplaced Pages? Do you want to use some kind of translation software or tool to translate the articles? In the first case, the process is pretty much no different from creating an article from scratch on English Misplaced Pages except that you need make sure your properly attribute the original Dutch article for licensing purposes as explained in WP:TFOLWP. There are more details on how How to do this in WP:TRANSLATE. It's important, however, to remember that each local Misplaced Pages is a separate project with its own policies and guidelines. Since English Misplaced Pages is not only the first but also the largest of the various language Wikipedias, the policies and guidelines of other Misplaced Pages's often are quite similar in even identical in some cases, but there still may be some important differences particularly when it comes to things like Misplaced Pages:Notability and Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources. So, as explained in WP:OTHERLANGS, just because an article already exists on a different Misplaced Pages that doesn't mean either (1) it should exist on that Misplaced Pages or (2) a corresponding article about the same subject should also exist on English Misplaced Pages. You should assume that any articles you translate are going to be assessed just as vigorously for notability as any new article someone else might attempt to create from scratch. As long as your competent enough in the source language to translate it into English and follow English Misplaced Pages's WP:MOS when doing so, your certainly can try to do so. You can start off as a WP:DRAFTS and then submit the draft for review when you think its ready. The biggest hurdle you're going to need to WP:OVERCOME is establishing the the subject is notable per English Misplaced Pages's notability guidelines. In the second case, machines and software translations are frowned upon for various reasons; so, you're better off avoiding such a thing altogether. If you're language skills aren't up to par to properly translate from Dutch to English, you could try asking for assistance at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Netherlands or Misplaced Pages:Translators available. -- Marchjuly (talk) 12:41, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

i am a native dutch speaker.

the subject seems to meet the General notability guideline.

the subject seems more notable than other articles in the same category.

since notability is an opinion, i'll just have to assert my arguments for it and hope that's sufficient.

though i must admit, i do not understand the logic entirely. not all knowledge is wisdom, but i would say that Wikipedias requirements seem to exclude useful information for no real reason.

(e.g. who won which election when: not notable, local election). Bart Terpstra (talk) 13:00, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

most of all:

why should a translator bother to translate more than a single sentence if it will get struck down for notability anyway? Bart Terpstra (talk) 13:06, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Bart Terpstra:, I translate quite a lot from German, but often on North German/Dutch subjects, which means I bump into the Dutch WP quite a lot, and use it (I am native English, fluent German). The best procedure for translation is to start a draft in draft-space. That way you can take as long as you like over your translation, and create it one sentence at a time, without fear of rejection/deletion. When the article is in good shape, submit it just like any other created article. The only difference between a translated article and any other, is that you should credit the Dutch Misplaced Pages article in the first edit-summary of your new article, and you may wish to add a translated page template to the talk page. But on notability, there is one big thing of which you should be aware: general referencing is frowned upon here, while it seems quite common in German and Dutch WP. It is not actually forbidden here, but many new page patrollers and AfC reviewers are suspicious of it. You may encounter problems if the article you are translating does not include any inline citations. Definitely avoid translating anything contentious unless it has inline citations. The principle is verifiability; everything here must be verifiable. Of course it is in the Dutch and German WPs too, but there, you may be offered three or four complete books to find (somewhere!) the support for one sentence in the middle of the article; here there is a feeling that if the sentence is contentious, the reader should be pointed to a precise page where they can verify it, and not left to do so much work on their own. Good luck, and please do translate. Machine translations are still pretty unreliable on anything vaguely technical, the expertise of a good translator is valuable, and there is much interesting information in the Dutch WP that cannot be found here. Elemimele (talk) 13:37, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

this is understood, but why expend the effort if the subject might not be notable according to prevailing opinion and despite general guidelines?

isn't there a way to quickly check notability?

it takes me hours to create sufficient translation with proper sourcing, and i'm not going to waste that on a dead article (again?). Bart Terpstra (talk) 13:42, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Bart! Is the Policy page WP:Golden rule helpful? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 13:55, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

no, because it's the notability concerning a hypothetical article that has significant coverage, reliable sources, independant source and has an article in another language wikipedia, but might still not be notable in the opinion of english reviewers. Bart Terpstra (talk) 13:58, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Then the reviewers would be making a mistake. Carpimaps (talk) 14:08, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

(You (Bart) replied before I could finish revising my post to acknowledge that Colin Fine had already linked Golden rule above!)

It is not always possible to compose succinct general advise that will be appropriate to every specific case. If you want Helpdesk/Teahouse advice about a specific subject, then (in an appropriate thread) list your best three Reliable sources for it. If they are judged by concensus to be inadequate, then you need to find better ones, or give up. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 14:11, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

is De Socialisten notable enough to have an english page if i translate it?

https://nl.wikipedia.org/Socialisten_(politieke_beweging)

https://www.sap-rood.org/nederland-de-socialisten-in-de-startblokken/

https://roodjongeren.nl/post/de-strijd-voor-een-partij - new party is near-strict superset of ROOD which is notable enough to have it's own wikipedia page

https://www.brekt.nl/nieuwe-socialistische-partij-in-aantocht/ Bart Terpstra (talk) 14:26, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Bart Terpstra, and welcome to the Teahouse. "Notability" is possibly an unfortunate choice of word, because Misplaced Pages's special meaning is not the same as the normal meaning of the word, though there is often overlap.

The intention behind "notability" in Misplaced Pages's sense is "Is there enough reliably published material, wholly independent of the subject of the article, to base an article on?" If the answer is No, then there is simply not enough material which can be put in the article, and no article can be written.

One consequence of this is that notability is not inherited: the fact that there may be enough published about ROOD to ground an article tells you zero about whether there is enough material independently published about De Socialisten - and vice versa.

The reason for the requirement for independence is that Misplaced Pages has almost no interest in what a subject (or their associates) say or want to say about themselves.

I haven't looked closely, but it looks to me as if sap-rood.org and roodjongeren.nl are not unconnected with De Socialisten, and so (as primary sources) they can be used in limited ways, but do not contribute to notability. I don't know what brekt.nl is: it's possible that it is a reliable source (though the lack of an author's name raises concerns), and can contribute to establishing notability - though at only four paragraphs, it is not enough on its own. ColinFine (talk) 16:07, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

oh, i love Misplaced Pages: Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions, i might read that later, i'm sure it brings out the ideological commitments of the wikipedia project.

sadly, you also misunderstood what i intended when i mentioned the relationship. it's not that it's associated with ROOD, it's that it will have sufficient participants and political influence to be considered an entity of comparable notoriety.

again, the argument is not the association giving it notoriety, but equivalence in who participates in and how they relate to dutch politics as a whole.

they also have coverage in newspapers. Bart Terpstra (talk) 16:20, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I misunderstood the relationship. If they are rivals, it's not clear whether commentary by ROOD would be regarded as independent or not: certainly, in articles on commercial subjects, an article by or published by a competitor would not be regarded as independent.

I have explained why equivalence in who participates in and how they relate to dutch politics as a whole is not relevant - except insofar as that results in independent coverage in major newspapers or books.

You say "They also have coverage in newspapers": great. Please present some examples, making sure that they satisfy the golden rule. ColinFine (talk) 16:38, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

hu, so if there was a subject with no writing about it, it couldn't become a wikipedia article.

even if it existed in reality and was significant to the culture.

and you can't take photos and write documentation, because it original research.

and you can't write an independant source and add it as a source because it's also original research.

neat.

I think this is a good sign for me to not bother with Misplaced Pages further. Bart Terpstra (talk) 16:47, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

No, it doesn't matter if it exists, it matters whether someone else has described that it exists. If you want to write about personal experience, a blog-site would be more appropriate, or you can become a journalist. The problem with Draft:De Socialisten (Dutch Political Party-in-founding) is that it cites only one source, which basically says that a bunch of people got kicked out of another party and resulted in something described as a one-man faction that decided its influence across a province was so small that it wouldn't take part in provincial elections. Unless there's some much stronger write-up, such a political party "in founding" is going to be seen as tomorrow's news to watch, not a thing we can write about with historical reliability. Unfortunately, you as the article's creator, need to demonstrate the coverage in newspapers or the reviewer is never going to accept it. Elemimele (talk) 16:51, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

but "still in construction" is not a valid argument for not being notable xD Bart Terpstra (talk) 17:01, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Of itself, no, that is not a valid argument for or against notability. By observation, most films being made, buildings being built, parties being created, are not notable, because nobody much has written about them. Occasionally there are exceptions.

You are welcome to argue for Misplaced Pages to change its policies - the various sections of the Village Pump are the place to do that. But I don't think you will get much traction on this. ColinFine (talk) 17:22, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

the best way to get these kinds of changes to Misplaced Pages at this point is probably to challenge it's authority as the place of information, which, good luck to anyone who tries. Bart Terpstra (talk) 17:27, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

You appear to be the one who wants to invest Misplaced Pages with "authority". Misplaced Pages does not claim authority - in fact, it does not regard itself as a reliable source. Such authority as it has lies in the sources it cites - which is why nowadays we tend to insist on them, though it was not always thus. ColinFine (talk) 18:43, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Authority in the different sense of the word.

Misplaced Pages is mostly truthful, most peoples first answers are answered by Misplaced Pages.

Misplaced Pages is an authority on truth to a lot of people.

Many a argument includes the sentence "the definition on Misplaced Pages says", and generally goes over fine.

Being "an authority on" something just requires you to be seen as providing expert opinion and consensus facts on the matter, which Misplaced Pages does.

It both shapes opinion and narrative on a subject and observes opinion and narrative on a subject.

(and claiming to not want influence does make you not have influence) Bart Terpstra (talk) 19:48, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

In Caput Mundi article unfairly deletions

Hello everyone,

I contributed informations with citations on Caput Mundi about Constantinople but unfairly that was deleted. True, clear and precise (direct) informations were added with proper sources (http://www.levantineheritage.com/pdf/Early_modern_Istanbul_as_a_Center_of_Diplomacy.pdf and https://www.rezensionen.ch/istanbul-hauptstadt-der-welt/3737407002/). The first source is an article, second one is a review of the book of Edmondo de Amicis that travelled Constantinople and said Capital of the World for Constantinople. London, Paris and New York were kept in the capital but only Constantinople was deleted this acion is unfair and illogical. Please help me to solve this problem. Best regards. -Historianengineer (talk) 14:28, 20 May 2023 (UTC)-

You are doing the correct thing, which is discussing it on Talk:Caput Mundi. If you cannot reach agreement with other editors, appropriate next steps are suggested at Dispute resolution.

Please note that "fair" doesn't enter into the question. You and the other editors are all trying to make the article the best they can, but you disagree about what that looks like. This is normal in the development of a huge collaborative project like Misplaced Pages. The aim is to reach a consensus that all will accept, even if it isn't precisely how they would prefer it. ColinFine (talk) 16:12, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer,

we came to terms, the article was fixed properly just now.

Best regards.

-Historianengineer (talk) 20:10, 20 May 2023 (UTC)-

it reverted to an abused definition.

Shanebruce 14:40:27 Hi, So I'm new.. and edited the "Hacker" entry to disabuse the term and added actual word origins rather than having Hacker and Cracker supposedly some response to media... and it reverted. Why or how did it revert, and how do I not waste my time?

the help chat says that wikipedia shouldn't reference itself even it's a default of citing... so clueless. ShaneMaddoxBruce (talk) 18:50, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

What you want to do is find reputable sources for the edits you wish to make. Do some googling and you’ll find stuff. The reversion was likely performed in good faith by an editor who likely didn’t understand what you were doing. A good idea to edit responsibly is to write an edit summary which will explain to other editors what it is you are trying to do. Pablothepenguin (talk) 19:47, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

hi @ShaneMaddoxBruce and welcome to the Teahouse! I haven't reviewed your edits yet, however the thing with citing Misplaced Pages within itself is that it lends itself to issues of citogenesis where false facts become valid because Misplaced Pages says so, even if the false fact was later corrected in the article it originated from. what is recommended however is citing it using the citations that support the original statement, for example, citing a paper from Nature instead of citing the Misplaced Pages article that cites that paper (in fact, I believe that's what Misplaced Pages itself and academia in general recommends when citing here) happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 03:43, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Rules that new editors must know

There are lots of rules and policies on Misplaced Pages, but I would like to know some general policies and rules that all editors should know. I'm kind of new to Misplaced Pages, and I want to know all of them so I don't break Misplaced Pages. Waterard (talk) 02:55, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

hi @Waterard and welcome to the Teahouse! please check out Simplified ruleset. the most important ones are the Five Pillars:

• Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia first and foremost,
• Misplaced Pages is written from a neutral point of view,
• Misplaced Pages is free content anyone may use, edit, and distribute,
• Misplaced Pages editors should treat each other with respect and civility,
• and Misplaced Pages has no firm rules (which does include ignoring all rules when they are unhelpful)

Happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 03:28, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Policies and Guidelines

Where are the links Policies and Guidelines of wikipedia? I need a fresh read. Cheers! BloxyColaSweet (talk) 03:01, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@BloxyColaSweet: Welcome to the Teahouse. Here's a list of policy and guidelines. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:23, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Ive been getting welcomed again and again. But im already familiar with the teahouse! Why does that happen? BloxyColaSweet (talk) 03:28, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

I use a template to greet anyone who asks a question here. It's how I do my part in providing a welcome atmosphere at this venue. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:37, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

i don't care if you've been here before, you're always welcome at the Teahouse 💜  melecie  talk - 03:53, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

I have read somewhere that Teahouse hosts are only supposed to say welcome to the first post but then you have to examine whether it's the first post. There is no automation and it's easier to just say welcome without checking. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:11, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

WP:Splitting

When creating a proposal for splitting an article, how long until the discussion is closed? I didn't see how many days on WP:Splitting. Cwater1 (talk) 03:40, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Cwater1. There is no recommended time and I don't know whether any editors monitor proposals in a systematic way. One of the problems is that a decision to split can be complicated to carry out. The oldest proposal still listed at Category:Articles to be split is Talk:Winning streak#Split proposed from August 2016, but it was partially done in 2021. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:01, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

I guess it can be up to me if I started one. Cwater1 (talk) 04:03, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

If there are opposes then it may be controversial to close your own proposal as supported. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:14, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. Cwater1 (talk) 17:04, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

hi

is chess.com and lichess as source allowed? Secret dollars (talk) 04:31, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

hi @Secret dollars and welcome to the Teahouse! are you using them to cite a blog post or a particular chess game (or their analysis of that game)? 💜  melecie  talk - 05:04, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

help with talk page archiving

I would like help setting up archiving on my talk page as I havent been able to figure it out. I am attempting to set up an auto-archive with ClueBot III that archives threads after 14 days or with the User:ClueBot III/ArchiveNow template using the naming scheme: User talk:FenrisAureus/Archive/2023/May I am also trying to get a search bar and an index list of archive pages below the header like on User talk:Mdaniels5757. if anyone is able to help i give them full permission to edit my talk page to make what ive been trying to do work - FenrisAureus ▼ (talk) 04:47, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@FenrisAureus This is fun. I suppose the bots that do archiving follow the command that we set up on the talk page. For example, I have set up it as User talk:TheAafi/Archive 10 whilst some other have it as User talk:DGG/Archive 194 Mar. 2023. Some users to this manually while others just keep themselves happy with the bots. ClueBot archiving templates are at User:ClueBot III. Best, ─ The Aafī (talk) 05:11, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Stamford Mercury reliable source?

Hello i wanted to know if the newspapet stamford mercury is a reliable source to add informations for a draft? Veganpurplefox (talk) 13:25, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@Veganpurplefox We have an article about the paper itself at Stamford Mercury but I don't see anything in the WP:RSN archive. So I guess it is as reliable as any historic newspaper but this will crucially depend on what statement you want the source to support. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:32, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Waiting to write?

I set up my user page so that I could write an article. So far, I just keep getting looped through the article wizard back to the beginning. Is that because my user page has to be approved first? I can't do anything in sandbox but another user page. MD Free (talk) 16:52, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@MD Free: Welcome to the Teahouse. Your user page does not need to be approved, and I've had no trouble getting the article wizard to direct me to Draft:Otherwize. You can click on the aforementioned link to start the draft, though the article wizard does have pointers as to what is and isn't acceptable for a Misplaced Pages article. When you're absolutely ready for it to be reviewed, add {{subst:submit}} to the top of the page. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:06, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh really?! It looks like it is the user page draft to me. Lol, thank you! I will take your word for it. Worst case scenario is that my Otherwize article ends up on my user page. Thanks again! I appreciate that! MD Free (talk) 17:42, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

It is worth mentioninging that an article on Otherwize was deleted in 2007 after this discussion. You should be careful to ensure that a new draft clearly demonstrates his notability in the sense used by Misplaced Pages. The information at WP:42 should help. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:10, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

I saw that, it was terribly rude and deserves amendment! MD Free (talk) 17:48, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Adding to the above, your userpage is for, if you like, writing a little about who you are and what you like to do as a Wikipedian. It's not the place to try to write an article. Misplaced Pages:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing may be of help to you. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:25, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Vandalism documentation

Does Misplaced Pages have a tool or WikiProject or something like that dedicated to documenting vandalism? Crainsaw (talk) 17:18, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@Crainsaw, see WP:CVU. {{u|Sdkb}}  17:25, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@Sdkb but WP:CVU doesn't document vandalism, even their task force about studying vandalism is dead, and their goal wasn't even to document vandalism. Crainsaw (talk) 19:33, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@Crainsaw, hmm, if by "document" you mean research on vandalism, meta:Research will have some studies. {{u|Sdkb}}  18:07, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Something is throwing an error when I remove POV text

I am getting an error that I am making an unconstructive edit when I attempt to revert an article about a serial killer back to a previous version. A user edited the page to remove references to pedophilia. This editor was was then banned for other propedo edits.

The article in question is: The article in question is:Yevgeny Petrov (serial killer)

Any help in fixing this is appreciated 107.115.5.80 (talk) 18:50, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Maybe making a Misplaced Pages account will help. There is additional security restrictions in place probably. Adler3 (talk) 19:21, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

You may have hit an edit filter, more specifically Special:AbuseFilter/384. You can ask another editor that are WP:AUTOCONFIRMED to make the edit. Carpimaps 04:15, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Where can I access my old Teahouse posts / questions?

I want to use these for reference. Thanks, TrademarkedTarantula (talk) 18:52, 21 May 2023 (UTC).

You have to click Archive. This also works in the Talk page Adler3 (talk) 19:16, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

There is a search-box for the Teahouse above, you can search your username and go from there: Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:50, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Redlinks

Hi, Does having a redlink on a article when an article (redlink article) doesn't exist improve or depreciate the quality of the article on Misplaced Pages by adding such redlinks? See here: Satyavedu Assembly constituency 456legend(talk) 19:14, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, 456legend and welcome to the Teahouse. I sometimes add redlinked articles, if I feel that Misplaced Pages would benefit from having an article about that subject, and if it's likely that another editor might create that article. This may provide other editors with ideas for articles to create. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 19:31, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

See WP:REDLINK for a good guide on red links. It does a decent job of when to or not red link. McMatter /_(contrib) 19:45, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Link to article that was edited the longest ago

Is there a way to see which article was last edited the longest ago, or see the articles that were created more than 10 years for example. Adler3 (talk) 19:15, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Special:AncientPages lists those pages that haven't been edited for the longest time. There is also Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages's oldest articles. Shantavira| 19:46, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Thx Adler3 (talk) 19:48, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@Adler3 and Shantavira: there's also WP:DUSTY. —usernamekiran (talk) 21:32, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

questions with user Talk Pages

hi, how do i cite sources on someone else's user talk page? since i saw the owner of the talk page be able to cite sources, also, i was having a conversation on a talk page of a user on my phone and suddenly i wasn't able to reply anymore, i wasn't even able to look at the reply thread until i switched to laptop where i was able to view and reply. can someone please tell me the answers to these two questions? thank you Natieboi (talk) 19:18, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

You can do links and add the numbers manually as the link text. I do not know how to do it otherwise, but maybe there is a dedicated tool to it. Link text can be added like Link text. Adler3 (talk) 19:19, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Natieboi (talk) 09:18, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Natieboi and welcome to the Teahouse. Add references (<ref> ... </ref>) to your talk page message, then below these, add {{Reflist-talk}} which creates a list of references for a talk page discussion within a particular section. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 19:26, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Here is an example. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 19:37, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

{{reftalk}} is the same thing, slightly shorter. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:47, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

(There's also {{Notelist-talk}}, which you may occasionally need). Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 19:54, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Ok thanks a lot Natieboi (talk) 09:19, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

References

1. Apples
2. Pears

Something about CoI

Hi. So I've been figuring out how to remove the CoI tag from the article Laugh Factory. Here are my questions:

1. How does one know if a contributor has a close connection with the subject?
2. How does one fix this error? Do they have to remove any content that shows CoI?
3. For more information, see this specific comment on the article's talk page.

Thanks, TrademarkedTarantula (talk) 20:49, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

TrademarkedTarantula, boldface is unnecessary. (1) The Banner said (in April 2016) that they inferred it from the content. (2) The template itself has a link, "Learn how and when to remove this template message". You might start by comparing the content as it then was to the content as it now is. -- Hoary (talk) 22:46, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

TrademarkedTarantula, that article was created by a long inactive editor whose entire efforts on Misplaced Pages was devoted to promoting this comedy club and its founder. The references are poor. One is a blog post by the founder, and the following reference is a blog post too. Others are taken directly from the club's website, or obviously generated by the club's press releases. The NPR reference doesn't even mention the club. The ABC 10 News reference is a routine business opening announcement.

What should be done is to identify actually reliable sources that are truly independent of the club and its founder, and that devote significant coverage to the club. Summarize those sources and get rid of the rest. Cullen328 (talk) 22:59, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

The visual editor is creating duplicate content

The visual editor has a bug that duplicates content. I have seen several occasions where a reference has been duplicated at the top of the page. How do we report a technical issue like this? Fieryninja (talk) 22:11, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@Fieryninja: I haven't tried it, but at the top of Misplaced Pages:VisualEditor there is a link to create a problem report. You can also try asking about your problem at WP:VPT. RudolfRed (talk) 22:20, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Please, can someone fix this

In Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore, the part of "Future" should say "Canceled sequels" ,because the film series was cancelled. Sources:https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/11/11/fantastic-beasts-cancelled/ https://bolavip.com/en/offside/fantastic-beasts-cancelled-why-did-warner-bros-decide-not-to-continue-with-the-franchise-20221104-0026.html https://movieweb.com/fantastic-beasts-cancelled-tv-series/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MejeJqFcxtU https://www.popbuzz.com/tv-film/news/fantastic-beasts-4-movie-cancelled-harry-potter/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MejeJqFcxtU 190.21.169.218 (talk) 00:35, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. You will have a lot more luck discussing this on the article's talk page at Talk:Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore and leaving an edit request. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:37, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

I already wrote something there and no one has answered, besides, i can't do nothing because the page is protected 190.21.169.218 (talk) 00:50, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

There is no record of your IP making any edits to that page, nor have there been any recent discussions related to what you're talking about. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:52, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, but it was another IP, i don't know why my IP changes 190.21.169.218 (talk) 01:34, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

IP addresses change based on a number of factors such as what network you are connected to as well as other factors. 💜  melecie  talk - 03:29, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

The request that I presume is yours is titled In "Starring" the list is not complete. Well, different people are likely to have different opinions of what constitutes stardom in a particular film. This doesn't mean that this could never be a matter for rational dispute, but you don't say anything on the talk page that seems likely to get a reaction much beyond "Uh-huh. And so?" -- Hoary (talk) 02:37, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Repackage tracklist dilemma

Usually, on articles about albums that have deluxe/repackage editions, I see that their separate tracklists only include the bonus tracks.

However, on some albums, these bonus tracks are spread out all over the album (in one case, a song from the standard edition is moved to another position).

Should I keep the full tracklist as is? Or should I reduce to bonus tracks only as usual? Baxyofh4rd (talk) 02:04, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Use of Global Times

I wish to use a Global Times article for an article on a trolleybus route in Shanghai. I'm well aware that this is a depreciated source, but this is one of the very few sources I can find in English (most others are Chinese), and if I were being honest I don't think this particular article can be harmful even if this is used, considering this is on a general topic of trolleybuses and not some controversial topic like politics. In this case, is it okay if I were to use this particular GT article inside my Misplaced Pages article? SBS6577P (talk) 03:47, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

SBS6577P, WP:GLOBALTIMES points not only to a discussion deprecating GT but also responses to subsequent questions akin to "I know that GT is deprecated, but could it be used as a source for xyz?" Their responses can be summarized as "no". Are none of the sources in Chinese usable? If not, then it is indeed rather hard to imagine how a trolleybus route could be misrepresented for propaganda purposes, but the place to ask isn't here but instead WP:RSN. -- Hoary (talk) 06:38, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Error uploading image

When attempting to upload File:Seal of St. Francois County, Missouri.png, it returned an error (local-swift-codfw) and isn't visible. I tried uploading it as a new version, but it didn't accept it since it was identical to the "existing" file. I tried to upload a slightly modified version (https://i.imgur.com/4sEmJZO.png), but it said that it was "in an inconsistent state within the internal storage backends." Should I try again (under a new name)? Sockwell162 (talk) 05:24, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

@Sockwell162: It seems to have uploaded successfully, since it was visible here before I changed it to a wikilink. RudolfRed (talk) 05:33, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Ah, it's visible for me now too. Sockwell162 (talk) 05:43, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Grumman FAAV Notability

I have found that there is no article pertaining to the Grumman VAAF prototype of the early '90s. I do not know if there is enough outside coverage of the aircraft to deserve its own article, but I have found multiple articles that reference it: Lift fan; Grumman; BCalow (talk) 06:21, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

No matter, BCalow. What matters is what's written in reliable sources about your proposed subject. Here (in this message thread), feel free to present the links to what you think are the best three sources. -- Hoary (talk) 06:41, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

These 3 sources are what I believe to be the most reliable

aerospaceprojectsreview.com/blog/?p=1203

ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19960027883

hitechweb.genezis.eu/vtol3c.htm

The last source I am not sure the validity of, but it is the only other source I was able to find BCalow (talk) 07:40, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

BCalow:

• aerospaceprojectsreview.com/blog/?p=1203 -- "Blog" is worrying, but it's a description of an article published in a magazine, so the latter could be cited. However, it's "A brief article on a trio of Grumman designs from the 1989-1993 time period, VTOL lift-fan combat aircraft, including the Future Attack Air Vehicle (FAAV)"; and thus FAAV is discussed in one third of "a brief article", which again doesn't sound encouraging.
• ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19960027883 -- This doesn't mention FAAV by name, but perhaps it's about FAAV. It's actually an introduction to this PDF, which doesn't obviously mention FAAV other than in one footnote. Is it about FAAV? You describe FAAV as a prototype; this PDF is about a 1/8 size model, if I understand right. I'm left uncertain about whether, or to what degree, this is about FAAV.
• hitechweb.genezis.eu/vtol3c.htm -- There's only one short paragraph here about FAAV. And it seems to be in the private website of one Matej Furda.

I don't see how this adds up to Misplaced Pages-defined notability. -- Hoary (talk) 08:47, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

How do i remove hackers from my computer?

Help! How do i remove hackers from my computer not working? 2001:D08:2941:CC36:8CE8:A8FF:2581:7E2D (talk) 10:14, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. This is a place to ask questions about using Misplaced Pages, it is not a place for asking general questions. I would suggest contacting your ISP or using Google to search for those that can help you. 331dot (talk) 10:36, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm going to assume good faith for a moment and suggest you first read our article to understand what a hacker actually is. Shantavira| 10:37, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Possible edit war

I restored this edit to the Mahesh Bhatt article as I believe it is important information (it was removed by Atlantic306) but I don't want an edit war (he may remove it again). Is what I restored fine as it is or does it need tweaking?-1Firang (talk) 11:02, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Need help

Hello i need help i already make an article with some photos that are from random website and these photos are free to publish they are not violate rules here and how i will edit them because Mrs Liz told me about COI.

I am not owner and the motorcycles are my hobby because I have no vested interests or advertisements, I just like motorcycles and I know this brand by heart.

Please i am a very novice in wikipedia i need help. Tresor23 (talk) 11:02, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Tresor23 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Photos from websites are almost never appropriate for use on Misplaced Pages. They only would be if the copyright of the image is clearly shown to allow use of the photo for any purpose or if the photo is otherwise in the public domain(such as works of the US federal government).

I don't know who "Mrs Liz" is, but it certainly is not a conflict of interest to merely be interested in the topic of motorcycles. Your attempts at a draft seemed to just consist of posting an external link, they did not seem to be efforts to write an encyclopedia article, which is the most difficult task to perform here. 331dot (talk) 11:08, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

He must have meant Liz who told him about this, "Teahouse" on his talk page.-1Firang (talk) 11:13, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Where does paraphrasing end and plagiarizing begin?

This section in Ron DeSantis,

He lifted restrictions earlier than most other state governors, but implemented measures to protect the elderly. DeSantis managed to avoid the dire consequences predicted by many, Florida’s death rate was within the national average, and the state’s economy fared better than many others.

is based on this text in Encyclopedia Britannica:

he lifted restrictions much earlier than other governors, though he implemented measures to protect the elderly. While many predicted dire consequences, Florida’s death rate (more than 75,000 people) was within the national average, and the state’s economy fared better than many others.

Aside from the WP text giving DeSantis unsourced credit, is this acceptable as paraphrasing? Space4Time3Continuum2x (talk) 11:16, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

References

1. ^ Tikkanen, Amy (August 31, 2022). "Ron DeSantis". Encyclopædia Britannica. Retrieved September 4, 2022.

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