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Revision as of 03:30, 18 February 2007

The warning here is not needed. We should assume that readers are relatively intelligent and mature enough to deal with strong language.

I have tried to bring in the latest scholarship and much more detail about the Copperheads, along with a solid bibliography and reference to a fascinating online primary source. Rjensen 17:45, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Good day Gentlemen and Ladies.

I think the following section of a sentence near the opening of the entry should be modified;

"...hated Blacks, blamed the abolitionists, ".

"Hated" Blacks is not necessarily a very professional nor explanitory choice of words. "Were extremely predjudice towards Blacks", "Were vociferous defenderds of chattle slavery (or of the subjecgation of Blacks". Anything else but "hated".

"Blamed the abolitionists" should read "held the abolitionist responsible for initiating the sectarian tension which ultimately led to secession" or something similar would be appropriate. <p. Just wanted to run that by people before I made the changes. Thoughts?

--JohnFlaherty 20:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

"hated" seems the right word. And "Blamed the abolitionists" also seems accurate. Let's be plain, simple and accurate about the past. It is highly misleading to suggest the Copperheads used language like ""held the abolitionist responsible for initiating the sectarian tension which ultimately led to secession"" -- they did not talk that way. To put their hatred into high-falutin words is very misleading to readers. Here's how Copperhead leaders talked: "A large majority," declared an Ohio editor, "can see no reason why they should be shot for the benefit of niggers and Abolitionists." If "the despot Lincoln" tried to ram abolition and conscription down the throats of white men, "he would meet with the fate he deserves: hung, shot, or burned." Rjensen 22:37, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

You're reading too much into my comments and motivation. When it comes to the Civil War, my blood runs Yankee Blue and abolitionist red.

My suggested wording is NOT "highly misleading". On the contrary, it is more accurate, it is more descriptive, and IMO more professional. I doubt the wording as it is now would apear in Brittanica or World Book.

--JohnFlaherty 23:51, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

we should not give the readers the impression that Copperheads talked nice and sounded like Taney. That is quite false. Wiki is professional when it gets the nuances right, not merely the dates. Rjensen 00:42, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

---

I disagree completely.

By any objective standard, the Nazi's hated Jews. No professional, non-fiction resource would state that "The Nazi's hated Jews". I explains nothing. It is amatuer. They would discuss anti-Semitism and Aryianism, pogroms and the diaspora.--JohnFlaherty 11:32, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I think you should read the studies of Copperheads -- that's more useful than Nazis or World Book.

But let's try a quote: "Hitler was a twisted product of anti-Semitic Austria, of the front lines in World War I, and of a ruinous and vindictive imposed peace. He was also a consummate demagogue, a hypnotic speaker, who recognized and brilliantly exploited popular rage, despair, and hatred of the scapegoat Jews, for whom Hitler himself had a psychotic hatred. He had a ferocious lust for power, not only national but also global. He was utterly false in his promises. He was insatiably murderous. And by early 1933 he was in absolute control of the great German nation. " hatred used twice. War Comes Again: Comparative Vistas on the Civil War and World War II (1995) ed Boritt p 17. Rjensen 11:42, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Civil war examples: "Even Frémont's father-in-law Thomas Hart Benton, despite his hatred of the Democratic leadership, urged his followers to vote for Buchanan. " " Butler in New Orleans presented a paradox. On the one hand his Woman Order, his hanging of a southern gambler who had torn down the U. S. flag at the beginning of the occupation, and his imprisonment of several citizens who defied or displeased him earned everlasting southern hatred of "Beast" Butler" . Or this "In The Diary of Miss Emma Holmes: 1861-1866 ( 1979) the author discusses a host of issues and individuals, and a constant theme throughout is her intense hatred of the North" ; "The enemy was now personal, and hatred of him intensified to become a prime motivator in continuing the struggle. " "His struggles with the Internal Revenue Service caused him to hate the U.S. government and to compare it readily to fascist or communist regimes." Ot this"Rochester has its full share of the Ku-Klux spirit.... It is the spirit of hate, the spirit of murder."(Frederick Douglas in "The Spirit of Hate" and Frederick Douglass. by Richard H. White in Civil War History. Volume: 46. Issue: 1. Publication Year: 2000. Page Number: 41. Rjensen 11:50, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Copperheads as anti-war

yes the Copperheads were pimarily united by their opposition to the war and all its manifestations (like draft and taxes), and continuously pushed for compromises, negotiations and peace candidates. Rjensen 02:20, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

NPOV

I've noticed that this article tries to imply that the Copperheads committed treason. Making such a claim is borderline defamatory. If it were valid about the Copperheads, its also valid about the Anti-Vietnam and Anti-Iraq movements. I would have fixed it, but I'm unsure how to reword the reference. 206.251.8.169 01:42, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

the issue of treason by Copperheads was raised at the time, and by historians today. If you listen you will note that anti-Iraq protestors rarely claim kinship with the Copperheads. Rjensen 03:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC)