Misplaced Pages

• Comment I would like to disagree on some of the above points. This may seem like a wiki war but please bear with me.

1. If he is a noted playback singer, why does IMDB list only Manasam as his only credit. Being a notable singer, why does he only feature in only 3-4 articles in the Hindu. Why doesn't he come in other South Indian newspapers like Malayala Manorama, Deepika, Indian Express or Mathrubhumi. (please consider that this is not an attack on the reputation of the Hindu)

• Answer: See here. http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/20/c/singer/ This lists more songs. Still this is not complete

These have malayalam fonts and do not appear in searches. Simple fact! If you want more articles just on this person enough can be provided as he he performs all over the state.

• IMDB is very unreliable for judging the significance of Malayalam film personalities. It may be used to argue that someone is notable, but never than someone is not. It lists five films for Baburaj and two for Dakshinamoorthy while the actual number is well over hundred for both.

2. Google hits on this guy are very few. A noted playback singer must generate atleast 1000 hits. Even though he has 901 hits, only 10-12 actually mention his name as a singer. The rest are just hits for the surname somasundaran.( sunidhi chauhan, PS's co-winner in MAS generates 160,000 hits)

• Answer: See searching the name pradeep somasundaram. He is also listed in this name.This will give you another 900 odd results. Then the total make it almost 1800! So that will get you to your magic number of 1000. After all who brought this rule that a playback singer ought to have at least 1000 hits? Strange!

3. The site blogswara just has below 8000 hits. And there is no mention of this site in any national newspaper comparing it to open source revolution. Also please note that the site has just about 10 songs to be downloaded, one of which belongs to PS.

• Answer: Did you except all songs to be sung by Pradip? The site clearly tells that this is a joint effort. Not a single persons album.Silly argument which does not guage a person's popularity. If so all films & albums would have songs only by single persons.

4. Podbazaar is the audio version of Youtube. Users actually upload a songs or interview and write an article about it. It means that a user can write anything about it. It's not necessarily reliable. Also note that podbazaar is not in the top 100,000 sites according to Alexa.( it is around the 1 million mark.) --Ageo020 02:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

• Answer: We are not talking about Podbazar's popularity here.

Please do answer this question: Is there a meter by which you can guage a person's popularity? No. Have you lived in Kerala since 1996? Have you heard this person's songs? Then why do you say that he is not popular? Based just on the Internet searches? Info on the net is based on what info we feed into it. Kerala is very bad in internet density. Broadband started here only in 2005! So it will take some time for people in Kerala to be internet savvy. Please take all these facts into consideration.--59.93.35.130 12:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comment

Ageo, I dont know on what basis you say that other major dailys has not recognised the person in question. The Hindu has a good online edition and I believe that you will not be searching in the native language, say malayalam or tamil. the problem with the current system that uses the ascii fonts used by individual language dailys are custom-built, which takes out the searchability. hence, I would think that the argument which says he doesnt generate google listing does not hold much good.

Also, I would like to know how many movies are listed in IMDB, with a comparison to the actual number of movies released. this is to identify the authenticity of the argument that says that IMDB doesnt have any records.

Please note that the blogswara recorded 5000+ hits and 300+GB downloads within no time of release of its first album, in which the person is a part of.

Its my bad that I mispresented the part of podbazar. It was mpod , which I should have mentioned.

On the point that Sunidhi chauhan generated that many, please note that she sings in Hindi, which has a wider audience level and reachability in the net. whereas the other languages are yet to make their way into the internet community in the level as hindi has.

I feel that the Searchability on the net may not give an actual picture on the subject. Comments and questions are welcome. --Jyothis 02:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment Unfortunately being mentioned in a list of other people, all of whom performed does not constitute a "feature" as in "Multiple features in popular culture publications such as Vogue, GQ, Elle, FHM or national newspapers." A "feature" is (from wiktionary) " 1. An important or main item." Being listed in the context of many others who participated in an event that was features does not constitute a "feature." As far as the unreliability of search tools to properly reflect foreign-language sources, this may have to condemn the article to unverifiability (WP:V). Seidenstud 03:01, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comment

Is this a wiki war? Seems like one of your mods Ageo is bent on making it so! He seems to be from Kerala and still bent upon to discredit a person about whom he does not know anything. Hey accept the facts. The other mods are more mature.Have a broader outlook.

• contention1): Why is pradip singled out when the abhijit sawants/amit sanas all have articles here?

I am a press reporter & writer based in Kerala and know this singer since 1994. I think it's time to close this discussion.Most of the supporting comments are from amateur fans. I am a passerby and was alarmed to see so much talk based on just news from internet! Net or google is not the final word on any person's popularity or talent it also gives incorrect and incomplete facts many times.There is more to a celebrity than google. Has anyone of the mods here has ever heard this man's voice? You can judge his popularity from his music blog. It's unfair to comment on a person's talent & popularity from factual materials just from the Internet without taking a round up of other important factors like regional popularity and support.So thought of giving some clear facts without any bias as one of the mods here has suggested.

A celebrity is more than internet news. It takes just minutes to be one and years to sustain it.Pradip became a celebrity for all malayalees in 1996 and is still going strong after 10 years.

• contention 2): I found articles about Kazi, Abhijeet Sawant, Amit Sana

(http://en.wikipedia.org.ezproxy.auckland.ac.nz/Amit_Sana - This man does not have any material to support any claims as per this wiki but still he is there!)and even just some participants of the Indian idol/ program on your wiki who are here just due to this single T.V program! Some have not even sung a single film song or any album to credit!

• Who authorised this article to stay without even an iota of supporting facts as pradip has?

Then why should pradip not be here? (Just a contention)

• Contention 3) The same rule should apply for everyone.He is a celebrity since 1996. Some

of his achievements are as below.

1) 1991-President's Gold medal winner in A.I.R National level Light Music competetion

2) 1996- Lata mangeshkar Award for best male singer of India in Meri Awaz Suno, the first National level Televised Music competetion.

3) 1997- The prestegious TOYI (Ten Outstanding Young Indian Award) given by JCI International which is recognition to his contributions TOYI Award

4) 1998- Best T.V Playback singer of Kerala award for the song"Ennakkaruppin"

5) He is a regular in many T.V programs and has done a listless number of Albums.

This list is endless and they are only some of his major achievement..He has performed all over India & in all the gulf countries many times.

• So your first requirement of having won atleast an award of National repute

is satisfied as he has won three such awards.

• He was one of the few Indians selected by the Indian & Japanese Govt. to participate

in 1) Ship for the world youth program-1994 http://www.swyaa-india.org/Pprofile.asp 2) Renaissance-World Youth Prog-2003 http://www.iyeo.or.jp/Ren/2003/edu/profile.htm

None of the above music competetion winners have such a brilliant profile of international stature and varied interests!

• The finding by one of the mods about singing in only one film is not true.

The list is incomplete as he has been signed by Sandeep Chowta to sing in a major Hindi Film! This list which too is incoplete has many of his songs: click on the singer pradip and you will find more films in which he sang.

• http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/20/c/singer/

• He permanently appears on this T.V program in Kerala:

http://www.amritatv.com/html/anjali.php

• Mod's: The list and details about Indian Playback singers is very new and

without much indepth info. Why don't we all try to expand it rather than closing out such talents. You should also expand to wider areas of information other than just basing your findings on the number of google hits.

• An encyclopaedia should try to bring comprehensive info on even the smallest info.

Wiki should also be about trying to find real talents(who do have contributed in their fields) who need to be introduced to the whole world. Let's not shun away from expanding knowledge and throwing light for the world. No one should be discriminated against.Let's give credit to the people who introduce such new faces to the wiki. Isn't the whole existence of the wiki based on expansion of such new info? I have presented a comprehensive writeup based on my available knowledge. I do not know why all these facts were not mentioned in this article in the first place by the creator! If still this does not warrants merit then God save the person who started this article!

Radhakrishnan --59.93.15.182 05:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Pradip has been on the music scene since 1996 since he won Meri Awaz Suno. This music show was the forerunner of the many later music shows such as Sa Re Ga Ma and Indian Idol. Also note that he is a major celebrity in his home state of Kerala. Also according to WP:BIAS not many people outside South India will know him. Hence, he is culturaaly significant for him to merit an article over here. --202.150.117.156 05:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

• Keep : Pradip Somasundaran is truly Self-made. He is very talented and has many achievements to his credit. How Popular are Internet and Google in 1996 when he won the talent show for Meri Awaz Suno which was famous and broad cast all over India on television channel.

Indian national Newspapers like to sell their stuff based on political news . We are discussing about talent here. Wiki needs to introduce people of talent instead of repeating something already on the net. His contribution to music in Kerala is remarkable.

• Keep He is a well known singer in Kerala. Google hits on him will be far and few. But that doesn't mean malayalam and local newspapers don't cover him. The Hindu is one of the major South Indian newspaper which keeps a good online record. Also local TV networks cover him regularly. He has worked with great music directors such as Ravindran and Illayaraja. Some of his music albums are all the rage in college campuses throughout Kerala. At the time of his victory in Meri Awaz Suno, he was interviewed by every TV network in South India. But as 10 years have passed since then, not many people will remeber him. One of the users is hell bent on destroying his credibility, I am sorry for him --130.216.191.84 23:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
  • This IP address is likely associated with the vandal Nilmar1--see below. -- Scientizzle 23:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep The people of Kerala are quite angry with the harsh treatment of one of their favourite sons. This discussion is not even needed. Pradip is being harassed by some people who don't even know him. I hope the editors have enough common sense to keep this article.--Nilmar1 23:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Nilmar1 was just blocked indefinitely for vandalism. This account was likely used from IP address 130.216.191.84 (above), as the edits are very related. -- Scientizzle 23:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep - He is a notable Singer and a TV personality known all over Kerala and amongst all keralites all over the world.His name is not usually referred to as Pradip Somasundaran but it is either Pradeep Somasundaram or Pradip Somasundaram . - Bharatveer 04:22, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

• Hi All, As a wikipedia user and music lover I know him since 1996's Meri avaz zuno. He was notable singer since then. Becasue this was a famous program. And after that he sings for malayalam movies and Albums.I modified the article Pradip Somasundaran .I think now it is better than before.But one thing is that this is the first time I am hearing his name is Pradeep soma sundaran rather than Pradeep soma sundaram.

Rgds Jyothish Jothishkumart 05:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

• Don't Delete - PradipSomasundram(n) is a well-known playback singer. He bacame famous through the TV program 'Meri Awaz Suno'. He won the State Award for the Best Playback singer (TV awards; not for a feature film). -- Rajith Mohan :) 07:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

• Weak keep I am going for a keep here. Pradeep Somasundaram (sic) appears somewhat notable, though not very much so. As per the musiconline link provided by someone above, he has sung in atleast five seperate movies. One significant role/song in a movie, or minor ones in five is good enough for me. "Pradeep Somasundaram" gets just over hundred google hits and the first two pages contain a few good links. Tintin (talk) 07:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
• Strong keep "Pradip Somasundaran" gives 751 google hits and add to the 100 odd hits of "Pradip Somasundaran" makes it almost 850 strong hits. Both are the same person. He has international youth exchange programs to his credit as per some hits and links above. What is his drawback here? I do not understand.

No way to ignore such a multi talented personality. --59.93.39.205 10:35, 2 August 2006 (UT

Do not delete: Pradip Somasundaran is a well know artiste in south indian music industry(especilay malayalam).He is known by his performance in "Meri Awaz Suno"

• Week Keep - I myself am from Kerala, but I confess I've never heard of him before. As the Musicindiaonline link shows that he has sung in nearly 5 movies, I think he is quasi notable. -- thunderboltz12:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

• DO NOT DELETE:Pradip Somasundaran is a well known music figure in the state of Kerala and across India afterhe proved himself by winning the Lata Mangeshkar trophy for the best male singer in India. I wonder why this article is considered for deletion!

• Strong Keep I am a member of FSF from Kerala. I know this guy very well. When R.M.S was here in Ernakulam he was there with us. He entertained R.M.S with his melodius songs and R.M.S played the flute.

From all the above mentioned information, the following points are enough to merit his article here 1) He has sung in many Films (only some are indicated in Internet as database is old) . Heard he sang in a new film of for Ramesh Narayan. Saw the news from papers. So he is a playback singer and active. He is a life member of M.A.C.T.A (Malayalam Cine Technicians Association) 2) His songs appear on Television channels almost every day! 3) He has two Awards of National repute 4) He has a music blog which is live proof of his activity in music field and his blog is listed the fifth in it's category in India Indian Bloggers Websiteand touching 6000 hits in a span of 3 months! 5) He has participated in International Youth Exchange programs two times. 6) He propagates the use of free software in Kerala. 7) He is an eminent lecturer who teaches Electronics which makes him special and different from ordinary singers All these show that he is a multifaceted personality. I found even lesser mortals having articles written on them. Whay have you not gone after such people? So let there be sanity. Let talent courtesy and vanity get it's worth. Make your judgement on what has been mentioned on the article and whether it well supported by people who have opined and facts available. Anoop --59.93.33.147 17:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

• Do not delete - I am a malayalee, and I have heard of Pradeep Somasundaram. I have also seen his performance in Meri Awaz Suno. He is not a very famous playback singer (musicindiaonline.com search reveals this), but definitely has the talent. Let's keep the article after giving it a through edit - Anandpiyer 18:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

• Do not delete - I am not a regular contributor to the English Misplaced Pages, but I regularly contribute to Malayalam Misplaced Pages (See My contributions). In my view, Pradeep Somasundaran is a singer well-known enough to be mentioned in Misplaced Pages. Umesh 21:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

• Do not delete I is a person who works in Dubai and have seen this person's live stage programs there many times. He came there many times with East Coast Vijayan. His song Ennakkaruppin Ezazhagu is a hit there. We see his songs almost daily on doordarshan, Amrita, Asianet and Kairali T.V.

His Symphony program on Kairali was exceptionally good. Also the song "Porumo En Shya Megame" on Doordarshan is now a legend for malayalees all over world. Also his ghazal programs and Stage showas on Asianat and ACV are very good. We also regularly watch Anjali and Ghazal on Amrita T.V there. I speak for thousands of gulf malayalees. Do not delete this article because one foolish ignorant malayalee who has not seen Kerala or lived here does not know Mr. Pradip. Thousand of malayalees in kerala and abroad cannot forget Meri Awaz Suno. He is the only malayalee who won a hindi singing competetion.

George Philip-Dubai-On leave--59.93.34.122 01:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)—

• Strong Keep

WP:BIO Notability

says that:

Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions. Notability can be determined by:

Multiple features in popular culture publications or national newspapers

A large fan base, fan listing or "cult" following

An independent biography

Name recognition

WP:MUSIC

says that:

• A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, hip hop crew, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:

• Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).

• Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media (excludes things like school newspapers, personal blogs, etc...).

• Has won or placed in a major music competition.

• Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network.

• Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast on a national radio network.

Hence any small child could see from all the presented facts that he qualifies more more than one of the above when only one of the above is required for his inclusion.

So I request the administrators to end this unnecessary discussion and let the article be improved with further info on this person with mistakes which as per your rules removed.

Regarding Newbies

• As per the above newbies are to be encouraged. Here some admins like Ageo are violating this basic spirit.

Personal attacks

• As per the above personal attacks are unwarranted. But Ageo is waging a personal war with this person and his huge fan following as I could see. This attitude is very immature and below the dignity of a WIKI Admin.

He should admit his impulsive action and gracefully admit the article and take the help of Pradip in improving music related articles on the Wiki. A truce and positive action is the need of the hour and an end to this unnecesary discussion. Mr Pradip does not seem to be a terrorist or a thief. He seems to be a multi talented person with a huge fan following. So take his help in getting more info to the wiki than discouraging such eminent people.

Mad Max:--59.93.4.180 10:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - quite notable... i have heard of him from the time he won the mucic contest in doordarshan. --Raghu 13:52, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Pradip Somasundaran is indeed a playback singer. The (auto)bio that appears in this article is almost accurate. I know this man very well and his brother was a colleague of mine. His "Meri Awaz Suno" feat was front-page news for almost all dailies in Kerala at that time.

Pradip Somasundaran is not very famous nowadays. As you can see in the article, he was on a roll till 1998; limelight has eluded him since then.

That said, let me admit that I am a bit surprised seeing him in Misplaced Pages. As I said, he is not that famous; yet he is not an ordinary keralite either. Let me say, for a brief period of time, he was a somewhat-well-known guy.

Overall a very funny situation..is he famous enough to get into wiki? Mind you, to an ordinary (non-netizen) keralite he will be more famous than wiki!

However, I think this article should be deleted. Reason? Take a look at it's history. A pathetic attempt for fame and publicity. It's a pity he couldn't do it in any other manner. --Sandeepmdas 15:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - More Info added:

Mods, Please note that I have added more information on the page Pradip Somasundaran. Please take a look before reaching a decision. All these are verifiable with the concerned authorities. I humbly request you to consider the fact that The internet doesnt contain any information, unless we, the users add them to it. As we cannot measure the talent and popularity by scale, google should not be the final word on adding new and valid information on to the wiki. I strongly believe that this article should not be deleted, just because internet doesnt have enough information available. Thanks! --Jyothis 20:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC) ¶ ¶

• Weak delete pradip used to be famous in the mid 90's but now not that many people have heard of him. I would have voted Keep, but the reason I am voting delete is because the article was started by the user User:pradipsomasundaran. Its high odds that Pradip himself created this article. Hence I would say that this is a vanity article.¶

Also the many unregistered users who have voted here suggests to me that someone is using sock puppets and voting over here.¶ But some of them have given some good points such as Jyothis, But overall I would say Pradip has barely sang a film song in the last five years , hence delete this article.¶ Also some other article created by pradip .¶ I would like to rebutt Jyothis one point i.e. Talent doesn't get you a wiki article. Fame however does. Pradip is just nominally famous.--RonStoppable 02:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)