Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 03:23, 2 May 2015

When determining what course of action should be taken about a disruptive, tendentious or bothersome editor, the primary concern – more important than precedents, consistency, fairness or even AGF – is which option will best serve the building of an encyclopedia.

" are characterized by personality traits that fall in the so-called Dark Tetrad: Machiavellianism (willingness to manipulate and deceive others), narcissism (egotism and self-obsession), psychopathy (the lack of remorse and empathy), and sadism (pleasure in the suffering of others)."

We all tend to take Misplaced Pages much too seriously. It's certainly important to provide a free first-class online encyclopedia for the public, and no one can dispute how central Misplaced Pages has become to people searching for accurate, unbiased information, but there's little excuse for the bitterness, in-fighting and bitchiness with which many people approach editing here, which makes the experience difficult and unpleasant at times. I am generally in favor of removing the worst of those transgressors permanently, which, of course, leaves me open to the charge of not assuming good faith. Actually, I have little trouble assuming good faith, I simply refuse to keep the assumption alive in the face of evidence of misbehavior.

"Beware of the 'innocent' man who plays his part too well."

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"He used . . . sarcasm.
Oh, he knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor,
bathos, puns, parody, litotes and satire."

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof
is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."

Misplaced Pages is a project to create and improve an online encyclopedia which is as accurate and as useful to its readers as possible. It is not an MMORPG, a debating society or an experiment to create the ideal online community. Activities which do not, in some direct or closely indirect way, contribute to that goal are a waste of the project's resources and should be minimized as much as possible.

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Note to self

Too much blue, do more red. BMK (talk) 22:26, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Koreatown, Manhattan

Is there any possible way we can use the following reference as narrowly as possible, simply and only to support K-Town's live-in-real-time, done-deal leap eastward over 5th and toward Madison?

http://www.yelp.com/biz/dons-bogam-new-york

My only concern is, as you said in the edit summary, that published sources often lag behind urban reality, and it could be (quite) a long time before the usual pre-eminent sources acknowledge this. Best, Castncoot (talk) 20:03, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

I did note in my Times search one restaurant listed to the east of Fifth Avenue, which was probably this one, but I didn't consider that sufficient to show that Koreatown is expanding in that direction. The Yelp cite is even less useful for that.

Let's start with this, just to establish some context: I used to live in the area, so I could just walk up and see what's going on, but I've since moved way uptown and can't as easily do that, so, even though it's entirely OR, and therefore not usable in the article, have you, personally, seen signs of the expansion of Koreatown east towards Madison, other than this one restaurant?

Then at least we'll know where we stand. Even though we can't use it, it may give us some clue as to where to go to get a usable cite. BMK (talk) 20:41, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Here's a recent USA branch of the prominent Korean Shinhan Bank, which has now established a presence on the east side of Fifth Avenue, therefore taking it off of West 32nd Street and technically placing it between 5th and Madison:

http://www.mapquest.com/us/new-york/banks-new-york/shinhan-bank-america-274863217

In combination with the restaurant, I believe that the two sources could form a reasonably verifiable support structure, hewing with this article's mention of banks and restaurants. Also, what is salient here is a phrase which would simply state that K-town is expanding in this direction, not stating that Korea Way or the center of the district itself has moved beyond 5th Avenue. Best, Castncoot (talk) 21:44, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm back in commission now, BMK (talk). I sense a 'conditional' green (or yellow) light from you regarding this edit. Let's try this here - I think I have a reasonable way to introduce this edit in a way that correctly captures the WP:WEIGHT of both the issue and the borderline strength of the citations. I believe this approach will neither overemphasize the issue and yet not be remiss by outright neglecting a very real phenomenon. Feel free to edit it as you wish, of course. Best, Castncoot (talk) 02:39, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Well...... I think it's pretty darn WP:SYNTHESISy, but, it's certainly better where it is now, and with a number of supporting refs (however iffy they are), so I don't plan on making a big deal about it. Keep an eye out for a real RS cite that will support the statement, and I'll do the same. If we find one, all of those refs can be replaced. BMK (talk) 04:37, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Sounds good. Castncoot (talk) 11:07, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Sarcasm?

I'm pretty sure that you know how to write correctly, so I am interpreting this as sarcasm: " Ezxcsuie em, these are BUS LINES." Or perhaps WP:Tendentious editing? Either way, it is unappreciated. Sincerely, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 03:32, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

It was neither - take a look at WP:AGF and get yourself a heaping helping. I was typing fast, and when I type fast I make mistakes. But the basic point is that those are bus lines, pretty mundane public information. If you think they should be supported by a citation, which is your right, then put a CN tag on them, don't delete them. Deleting them is, well, pretty damn anti-social. BMK (talk) 03:54, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Eastside Online

Is Eastside Online reliable? I know it was the school newspaper of Cherry Hill High School East. As seen on We Like Digging? reference section. 115.164.91.109 (talk) 02:10, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

I am pretty darn sure that it is not, but you can ask at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard if you want more opinions. BMK (talk) 02:38, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Incidentally, why ask me? BMK (talk) 03:15, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Ixnay on the Template:Iv colDay(?)

Greetings. I must admit I was a little taken aback - not 2 mention puzzled - by the revert on the Strasberg Institute article. As there was no explanation given, I'm left 2 wonder whether it was my own failure 2 include an explanation that was at fault (I guess I assumed that the point of Div col - i.e. to ensure relatively even columns without having 2 expend any additional effort - was a given), or if in fact the template itself presents other problems I'm unaware of (either in general or in relation 2 this particular case), ones which outweigh the seeming advantage. If it's the latter, please clue me in; I'll be glad 2 go back and manually balance those columns (something which - if u check the history just prior 2 my entry - does not appear 2 have been done any time recently; just sayin'). If not, doesn't it make sense 2 reintroduce it? Anyway, I guess that's it. Look forward 2 hearing from u. DavidESpeed (talk) 22:34, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Please rewrite your question in standard English and I'll be glad to answer it. This isn't Twitter and you're not writing a text. If you want an answer from me, write it in a comprehensible manner. BMK (talk) 23:10, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Clearly, the implication that either "2" or "u" (to say nothing of my obviously failed attempt at Pig Latin levity) might possibly be 'beyond ken' must be viewed as purely rhetorical. For my part, however (stylistic quirks notwithstanding), no disrespect was intended; my typing 'skills' being what they are, I customarily use such very limited, basic, and - or so I thought - readily comprehensible shorthand in all my messages (whether in emails, or on reference site talk pages such as this). In any case, rather than 'translate' my entire message (rendered in part obsolete by your last two edits to the article in question, providing the requisite column adjustments), I will cut to the chase:

• 1) Was your original revert the result of my previous edit's lack of explanation, or of a judgment as to the preferability of the original column template?
• 2) If the latter, please enlighten me; at the very least, this would help me avoid any such ill-advised edits in the future.

Again, thanks for taking the time. DavidESpeed (talk) 16:20, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

No, the lack of an edit summary didn't bother me - I often forget to do them myself, and it was perfectly clear what you were doing. The real problem for me was that using <div> to do columns just doesn't work very well, the columns end up too far apart and the reader loses the visual connection between them. I strongly feel that the columns need to be far enough apart to be obviously separate, but close enough together to be obviously all one thing, if you take my meaning. "Div" just doesn't seem to give enough control to allow that to happen. I do understand the great advantage of using it is that you don't have to keep re-jiggering the column lengths when names are added or deleted, so I'd be very happy if "div" could be made to do what I described above.Sorry to be so grouchy in my initial response. I myself use such abbreviations and shortcuts when texting (I don't tweet), but I like to think of Misplaced Pages as a somewhat more serious project which deserves at least a minimum degree of literacy in its editor-to-editor communications. (Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old man!) Best, BMK (talk) 02:13, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

All I can say is (going on 60, with an abundance of grump, all my own): Welcome to the club. As for the column separation, or lack of same, I guess that hadn't even occurred to me, given the forced compression - or semblance of such - due to the adjacent image. But now as I go to edit preview, eliminating said image from the equation, I see what's up. Hmmm... I think I'm actually more disconcerted by the columns being off to one side instead of being centered; not to mention the fact that whenever one compresses the screen greatly, rather than compressing accordingly, the fixed column(s) simply begin to disappear. Maybe it's just me, but to my eye, as long as the distances remain equal (however great) and the order alphabetical, the connection seems pretty hard to miss.All that being said, it's your call. As far as this article goes, I'm just passing through. You're the one maintaining it, and obviously doing a thorough and conscientious job. Thanks again for the explanation. DavidESpeed (talk) 18:55, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks.I tweaked the columns a bit, centering them and making 4 instead of 3. What do you think? BMK (talk) 12:43, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, BMK. Although I did - as per your note - add this page to my watchlist, I've yet to receive a single notification; thus far, I've simply checked back periodically, and eventually seen each response. But yes; I did indeed like & appreciate the tweak, the extra column proving particularly prescient in light of my subsequent additions. And though I may have to be away from Wiki for a bit, I hope to return soon and create a brief history section, which would almost certainly force the list down past the now adjacent image, eliciting more open spaces, reevaluation, and, perhaps, yet another column.By the way, at the risk of putting a damper on all this expansionary fervor (although not, one hopes, on our recent 'reconciliation'), my visit this morning was occasioned by another matter as well. Re the cited De Niro bio, I was already familiar with it via Google Books. As far as I can tell, the only Strasberg connection mentioned therein is via the Actors Studio. And while De Niro's AS membership is not in doubt (not to mention considerably more prestigious and difficult to attain than LSTI attendance); it obviously has no bearing on this list. On the other hand, seeing as how you added this ref sans link (this, plus the fact there is a page missing from GB's preview of this section), I was hoping you might have - or, at least, have read - the actual book, and thus be able to recall, or even reproduce, a supportive excerpt (and believe me: given the amount of time I've spent searching for such a citation, that would be one hell of a scoop). If not, then it's just a matter of deciding whether to simply reattach the citation tag, or to remove De Niro outright. And frankly, given the nearly six years that this question has been featured, front & center, on the talk page, without a credible source having yet been offered, I'm leaning toward the latter. Really, what makes the larger issue so problematic - i.e. Wiki editors' conflation of LST&FI and AS - is that it merely mirrors LST&FI's own practice, manifested in its intentionally deceptive 'Alumni Lists,' published both during the internet era and before; all of this consistent with a longstanding tendency towards self-aggrandizement, so famously attributed to Strasberg by Brando. Oh well; just some thoughts... DavidESpeed (talk) 20:11, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

No, I've nothing more specific on the De Niro book, I was taking the ref in the De Niro article at face value. If you're pretty sure that his connection with Strasberg was only through the Studio, then you should probably remove his name and my cite from the list. I myself was thinking that De Niro was a little too old to have been a member of the Institute.As for notifications - do you have them turned on in Preferences? You should receive on whenever you name is linked on a page (such as ]) or "pinged", as in {{ping|DavidESpeed}} or its synonyms (see {{ping}}).BMK (talk) 03:56, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

I have no doubt. De Niro's basic studies were with Stella Adler. My understanding was he'd only come to the Studio in the 70s, after he was already well established (this from David Garfield's A Player's Place) Nonetheless, given the tiny sliver of doubt raised by that missing page in GB's preview of the De Niro bio, I did a exhaustive series of keyword searches on ProQuest, to see if I could find even a single primary source. I found exactly one, but not in an article about De Niro; rather, it was a profile of various acting schools which was obviously getting its alumni info from the respective institutions profiled. In the case of LSTI (I kid you not): Paul Newman, Dustin Hoffman, and De Niro. Yikes! You can't make it up (though, clearly, Strasberg could). Anyway, I will make that little adjustment.Regarding notifications: yes, they are turned on. However, I see I hadn't linked to any email address; now I have.

I once worked on a production of an original play about Strasberg, his wife and family, with Marilyn Monroe an offstage character (voice only). The playwright clearly did not like him. BMK (talk) 04:32, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

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AGF

You don't have to like me but assume good faith. And check the evidence... it's article talk pages, not editors. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 04:37, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't need to "assume" anything, I can see that you filed a report on AN/I without ever bothering to ask Guy Macon a damn thing about what he did. That's just wrong, period. Maybe, if you had an extensive history of disputes with him and you didn't want to start another one, maybe then you'd be justified, but you say yourself that you "have little knowledge of" him. You just didn't have the courtesy and decency to ask directly for an explanation from a colleague before tattling on him to the community (and, yes, "tattling" is indeed the apt word for what you did). BMK (talk) 04:55, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Comment posted by Marketdiamond

Hi. Your comments on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Corporate Election Services after April 14, 2015; 9 years ago (2015-04-14) days of 150+ article-related edits are destructive. This is the warning before Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents you now have an opportunity to retract your contributions. _{⧐ Diamond Way} 06:32, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Buzz off. BMK (talk) 06:34, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Hillary Rodham Clinton - Move Discussion

Hi,

This is a notification to let you know that there is a requested move discussion ongoing at Talk:Hillary_Rodham_Clinton/April_2015_move_request#Requested_move. You are receiving this notification because you have previously participated in some capacity in naming discussions related to the article in question.

Thanks. And have a nice day. NickCT (talk) 18:31, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Inadvertent revert

Hi BMK, say there, I seem to have accidentally reverted a comment you made at ANI. Rather than try and fix it and possibly make it worse, I thought I'd see what you wanted to do. Thanks, and sorry. Jusdafax 22:42, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Never mind, it appears to have been fixed. Again, my apologies.Jusdafax 22:48, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

No problem -- no harm no foul. I probably didn't say anything worthwhile anyway. BMK (talk) 23:27, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Not forgetting the encyclopedia

I noted your comment on Misplaced Pages talk:Standard offer, and I do understand where you are coming from. It does grate on me sometimes how difficult I find it to carve out enough time to actually contribute content. Usually I get to doing a few SPIs or CSDs even when real life takes up a lot of time, and I do catch myself fixing typos and grammar without logging in when I'm reading an article (which seems to happen a lot!), but certainly my visible productivity has been minimal in recent weeks. I've been spending my volunteer time preparing for the FDC meeting in early May (which involves really dissecting six requests for funding totalling about 1.5 million USD) and was voluntold to act as an advisor to the committee tasked to run the WMF elections (watch for the banners, candidates now being accepted, voting starts in about a week for FDC candidates). That plus some non-public checkuser work has been the majority of my volunteer time for the last while. I do take your concerns to heart, and once we get through the FDC stuff I will really do my best to focus on regular content management/contributions; I think you made a fair comment. Risker (talk) 03:45, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I appreciate your comment, your position, and, not incidentally, your commitment to the encyclopedia, which I have never doubted, BMK (talk) 04:07, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Street performance

Thanks for your abusive post on my talk page. I merely asked you previously to take change to the talk page so this edit can be discussed. But if you cannot be civil then I will resort to asking for a ban on your editing.Robynthehode (talk) 08:13, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Feel free to do whatever you think is appropriate. BMK (talk) 08:18, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

For TPS info: Robynthehode is referring to this comment on his/her talk page, which refers to the moving of this sentence in the Street performance article from the paragraph about "one-man bands" to the paragraph which deals with 21st-century adaptations made by street performers. Ronynthehode had objected to it in the paragraph about "one man bands" (where I, personally, felt it was reasonably placed), so I moved it to a paragraph about how street performers have modernized. Apparently, he objects to it there as well, which is, may I say, too fucking bad. The article is about street performers, and if they've started using backing tracks, it doesn't matter one whit if Robynthehode thinks that doesn't qualify them as street performers, they're still performers, and they're performing on the street, for the money they can collect. Ronymthode can like it, or he can hate it, I don't really give a shit, they're still covered by the article. BMK (talk) 08:33, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Random question out of nowhere

Hi, BMK! I have an idea (perhaps a wrong idea?) that you are a New Yorker. Do East Village and West Village take a definite article or not? The usage in our own articles on them is so confused that it's impossible to reach a conclusion. I happened to link to both of them today, and didn't know. Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:47, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

I would say that in general both neighborhoods (and "the Village", to refer to Greenwich Village) take the definite article in almost all instances. It's not as officially ensconced as "The Bronx" or "the Bowery", but it certainly is "the East Village", "the Village" and "the West Village", as well as "the Upper East Side" and "the Upper West Side", but not (for instance) "the Greenwich Village" (although that might have once been acceptable local usage, back in the 19th century), "the Tribeca", "the Soho", "the Chelsea", "the Harlem" or "the Washington Heights". BMK (talk) 20:48, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Result of the EWN complaint about you and Robynthehode

Please see WP:AN3#User:Robynthehode and User:Beyond My Ken reported by User:Lugnuts (Result: Two parties warned) which includes a warning to both parties. As mentioned there, I recommend you strike out one of the sentences in your 20:54 comment. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 01:54, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. I've struck the comment you mentioned. BMK (talk) 02:01, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Concerning Oradour-sur-Glane

Without being logged in: I yesterday edited this article with reference to the german wikipedia article - not because I agree with this article but because absolutely disagree, I tried to change it and protest without any real response. Is this Ok for the project wikipedia - german and english articles to the same subject with great differences following the viewpoints of german soldiers versus english 70 years after the end of the war? What does POV mean? By the way, a lot of my comments in the german wiki were erased.--88.217.29.26 (talk) 20:54, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

• You're not logged in now, why is that? If you have an account, please use it to edit with."POV" means "Point Of View", in other words that the edits were removed because they showed a point of view which was not neutral, as required by WP:NPOV, one of our policies. This article frequently gets that kind of edit from Nazi apologists looking to show justification for the massacre by pointing out "information" which they feel mitigates it. Some go so far as to try and show that the action was a reasonable response to deliberate provocation from the French. That's not how mainstream historians see it, and therefore that's not how it's going to be presented on English Misplaced Pages.As for two different language Wikipedias having different articles: each Misplaced Pages is governed (if you can call this chaos we have "governance") by the collective community formed by its editors, subject, of ourse, to the policies of the Wikimedia Foundation. We here at English Misplaced Pages have no control or influence over the articles on German Misplaced Pages, and vice versa. If you believe the article there has problems, you need to discuss it there. If you think that our article is biased in some way, you can discuss it at Talk:Oradour-sur-Glane, however if you're going to advocate anything that appears to be attempting to cast the Nazi massacre in a better light, I guarantee that you'll get a chilly reception, as you should. BMK (talk) 21:09, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

City-As-School

I see that you moved City-As-School to City As School a little while ago, but I think you didn't do your research properly. As I noted in the move comment, the school does hyphenate its name except in its logo. I think this is a pretty stupid way to go about branding a school, but it's not my decision to make. However, I think it's irrefutable that the school does use hyphens whenever talking about itself in a formal context. I point you to their About page as the most definitive resource: http://www.cityas.org/about/ If this is convincing, could you please restore the page to City-As-School? Thank you—jameslucas (" " / +) 20:58, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

The name of the school is clearly "City As School", that's what they use as the title of their website -- "City As School High School" --, it's what they use on their Facebook page], and that's what the NYC DOE uses on its webpage for the school. Given this, the name for our article should obviously be "City As School", the actual name of the school. If the school (or its students) is then inconsistent in its use of hyphens versus no hyphens in other contexts, it doesn't mean we have to follow their inconsistency. BMK (talk) 21:19, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

I think you're getting things backwards by favoring social media pages with mixed-usage instead of formal sources, which are generally consistent in favor of the hyphens. Structured releases from the school such as their "about" page (and their mailing address) use the hyphens, and there are decades of precedent among top-tier sources such as The New York Times: (last paragraph, first line). I think the DOB page you cite is worthy of consideration and does bear weight, but bringing your case to me rather than aggressively reverting my edits would have been the appropriate thing to do. It's not as if there was a robust talk page conversation that I bypassed or ignored. jameslucas (" " / +) 22:32, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

I did not "aggresively revert your edits", I had no idea that you had just moved the page to the hyphenated version until after you posted your comment here. You can believe that or not, but it happens to be true. I went to the article because of your edit on the C. B. J. Snyder page, which is on my watchlist. Your formatted the Wikilink incorrectly, and instead of just reverting your edit, I went to check to sse what the article was called. Once there, I saw the name, did some research to verify what the actual name of the school was, and moved the article once I had determined that, all without knowing that you had just moved it.The school's website and the DOE page are not "social media sites", they are official. In any case, this discussion is over in this venue, I've made my case based on reliable official sources. If you continue to object, start a request move discussion on the talk page. BMK (talk) 23:29, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

The Swimmer

Hi, BMK. I know you made a good-faith edit, but it was factually inaccurate — according to TCM itself! Please see: "Once Upon a Coffee House (1965)". Turner Classic Movies. Archived from the original on April 30, 2015. Retrieved April 30, 2015. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help) --Tenebrae (talk) 23:47, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

I went there and I looked at it. Where does it say there that "The Swimmer" was Rivers' second film? Please describe specifically where that information is. BMK (talk) 23:48, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Certainly. At the TCM page for ONCE UPON A COFFEE HOUSE (1965), it has:

Cast & Crew

• Shepherd Traube - Director
• Vince Martin - Rival
• Karen Thorsell - Coffee house barmaid
• Curtis Taylor - Playboy
• Jerry Newby - Coffee house owner
• Pedro Roman
• Eve Tellegen
• Oscar Brand
• John Rivers
• Deanna Lund
• Jake,, and Joan Jim
• Sherry Lou Shepherd
• The Goldebriars

As you can see this is a 1965 movie, released three years before The Swimmer. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:52, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

OK. You knowingly are putting factually incorrect information. You've restored content that the cited sources do not support. For example, the TCM site does not support "Pollack reportedly reshot several transitions and scenes, including the Shirley Abbott scene with Janice Rule now playing the part originally played by Barbara Loden." In fact, it says, "Pollack directed only the scene with Janice Rule."

I don't understand why you would do this. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:57, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Please read WP:SYNTHESIS, which is what you just did., You cited the article in support of a statement that the article did not make, It's a conclusion you drew from the informaton in the article, and that is WP:OR, specifically WP:SYNTHESIS, which is not allowed, The article on TCM for "The Swimmer", however, explicitly says it was her film debut. Find a source that says that her film debut was "Once Upon A Coffeehouse" and you're fine.

When your changes are reverted you must discuss them, per WP:BRD. The appropriate place to discuss them is on the article's talk page, not here. Reverting -- which you just did -- is not part of BRD, which specifically calls for the article to stay in the status quo ante during discussions. Take this to the talk page, and please don't revert again without a consensus to do so on the talk page. BMK (talk) 23:58, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

You're citing a source that you know is making a factually incorrect statement. That's remarkable.

And please answer about knowingly adding Pollack content that the cited source does not support. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:00, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Please read the following statements carefully:

• This discussion is over on this page. The proper place to discuss this is on the article talk page. Please take your issues there.
• I have twice banned you from this talk page. After the first time you apologized, so I relented, and then you went and did your sma eold schtick all over again, so I banned you again.
• The third time, it is said, is a charm. You are banned from this page, in perpetuity. Anything you post here will be deleted unread.

Now, go away, again. BMK (talk) 00:05, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Before you go away, look again at the TCM cast list for Once Upon A Coffee House. The actor you cited is JOHN Rivers, not Joan Rivers.Your apology is pre-accepted, but you are still banned. Please don't darken my door again. BMK (talk) 00:08, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

I had never heard of this movie before (and apparently few others have either), but it's definitely Joan Rivers. If you've got 79 minutes to kill, you can see it here. Joan shows up with her two colleagues at about 20 minutes in. Kind of a B-movie at best. One of those "direct to drive-in" types. I tolerated the first 5 minutes and then starting jumping at 5 minute intervals until she and her two teammates were introduced. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 01:07, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it looks like TCM just mangled the name. So she appears, but as herself, as part of (presumably?) a folk singing group. Is that a "film debut"? Obviously the person who wrote the TCM article on The Swimmer doesn't think so, and IMDB lists the appearance under "Self" and not under "Actress" on River's page. I've suggested a compromise on the article talk page, let's see how Tenebrae responds to it. BMK (talk) 01:10, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

According to this youtube blurb, the film (also known as Hootenanny a Go-Go) was shot at a coffeehouse in Miami and was shown only in that city before being shelved. It's miraculous that a print still exists. Here's a publicity still from it. I guess it depends on the definition of "debut". It would be interesting to find out if Joan herself ever commented on this film, in one of her biographies. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 01:18, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

I am sorry for what I did. Please accept my apologies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Floquenbeam#Sorry_for_everything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HondaS2200fan (talk • contribs) 17:12, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

WP:ANI#Even_Handed

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. BlusterBlaster 20:46, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I wondered how long it would take for someone to notify me - and it turns out to be a third-party, that's no surprise. Anyway, I am aware of the discussion, and I will monitor it, but I'm hopeful that I can manage to stay out of it, since I don't believe it requires any input from me (since all the complainants are holding grudges against me) at least the last time I looked at it. I'll take a peek now. Thanks again. BMK (talk) 20:56, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Later: Actually, I mispoke above, there is one complainant who, as far as I know, isn't holding a gtudge against me. If he is, that bothers me, not only because I don't recall what the circumstances might have been, but also because I generally respect this editor's work and agree with his opinions on the noticeboards. I believe that when this attempted tar-and-feathering is over, I will contact the editor and try to work things out with them. I very much prefer to have the respect of those editors who I respect. BMK (talk) 03:10, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Yipes, another grudge-holder enters the fray. BMK (talk) 22:20, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm going to guess that the next contestant's username starts with a "V". BMK (talk) 22:25, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Actually, "V" is in the wrong time zone, so I'll leave a little money on him , but put most of my cash on "L". BMK (talk) 23:30, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

• One of these days they'll get you for your temper, BMK. The Rambling Man may well be holding a grudge, and Alansohn seems to mean business. Then again, the latter's user page contains two glaring errors, easily seen--this business about admins seeing only black or white, and then this sentence, "I bizarrely came across an article..." I so object to that kind of modification of the verb... Drmies (talk) 02:57, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

• You're probably right, Drmies, and when they do "get me", in return I'll get my life back: not a bad exchange, eh? BMK (talk) 03:01, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

• I wish I had kept my money on "V", since he showed up before "L" after all. True, it was on my talk page rather than on the AN/I thread, so I'm not sure the house would have paid off anyway. BMK (talk) 03:04, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

• OK, now V's chimed on the AN/I, so at least I get paid off on my "place" bet.

• BTW, any admins want to advise me on what the chances would be on getting a block on a puppetmaster whose sockpuppet made two edits in 2008 and then disappeared? ... Yeah, that was what I thought. BMK (talk) 03:22, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

• And I forgot about "R", he should be along soon. BMK (talk) 03:10, 2 May 2015 (UTC)