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Manon Batiste

Manon Batiste (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

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Wholly insignificant character; player's character in the MOH/COD games might as well be nameless avatars. No claim of notability and zero citations to third-party sources (currently, article is referenced only to the games themselves). This is merely a regurgitation of game plot and a listing of "awards" (i.e. military recognitions) garnered by this make-believe fellow. Easily/sufficiently covered in main franchise article. No attempt to address the subject in an encyclopedic manner, undoubtedly because no significant third-party sources responding to/scrutinizing this might-as-well-be-nameless character exist. --EEMIV (talk) 02:11, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions. Nifboy (talk) 03:34, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
• Keep due to improvements. I did some searches on Google News and Google Books and was able to address the various criticisms of the article above. The article is indeed a significant character who appears in multiple well-received mainstream games, including as the main character in one game who is additionally notable in the real world as being based on a historical figure. The article is not solely plot and I am not opposed to condensing that aspect of the article to make it more balanced, but in any event, the article now contains out of universe development information and some reception information. Looking at reviews, I expect to be able to add even more out of universe context, but just wanted to note the progress thus far. But as we have seen the article is being addressed now in an encyclopedic manner, because significant third-party sources regarding this fascinating character do indeed exist. If the nominator can live with a redirect, then per WP:BEFORE a discussion concerning the redirect should have been discussed on the article's talk page and if the article's referenced content can be covered elsewhere then per WP:PRESERVE and Misplaced Pages:Merge and delete we would still at worst redirect with the edit history intact. As there is no pressing need to redlink here and no one is really calling for that, this discussion really should be speedily closed with a merge/redirect discussion taking place on the article's talk page. Best, --A Nobody 16:19, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

A sentence about real-life inspiration and a blurb about developing the soundtrack (note it's not a third-party source) are not evidence of significant third-party coverage. The article remains a bastion of trivia, plot summary, unreferenced speculation and other cruft. --EEMIV (talk) 16:30, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

WP:ITSCRUFT is never a valid reason for deletion, especially when the article contains non-trivial referenced information. Sincerely, --A Nobody 16:54, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Please see what my "cruft" link leads to. Hint: I anticipated you once again tossing up your "don't call things cruft" boilerplate. Please stop responding to me on AfD discussions; I find engagement with you frustrating, and I think we can mutually agree we won't change each other's mind, much as we're confident in the soundness of our own arguments. I'll similarly refrain from acknowledging your existence or relevance in AfD. --EEMIV (talk) 00:06, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Okay, but you replied to my keep argument first... Sincerely, --A Nobody 00:19, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

• Delete Page currently stands as entirely in-universe description. Not enough real world content for a standalone article. Shii (tock) 19:42, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
  • That is actually totally not true given the out of universe Development and reception sections... Sincerely, --A Nobody 20:18, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
• Keep due to excellent improvements of out of universe context. Ikip (talk) 20:36, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
• Keep even though the principal character, a proper merge might be bertter, but there is the difficulty in getting a merge to a. be sufficient, and b. to stick. I'm thinking right now of World of Monkey island,; a number of combination pages were merged into here a year ago, biut the entire merged section was edited out at just been removed earlier today, along with a good deal else, and with the edit statement for one of the deletions, at , that " these sections are going to be turned into bullets." I think it's much better to merge, but not if things like this are going to happen. Until we have a way of preventing this, the only alternative to loss of content is to keep the separate articles. Combination articles was the one viable compromise, but it is only viable if done in good faith. I am not happy feeling it necessary to support keeping individual articles than I would really like, by people who are taking an truly extreme position on removing content outside of AfD DGG ( talk ) 21:20, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
  • I think a single article might have a better flow in general. Shii (tock) 21:29, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
• Delete (Without prejudice to merge however) I'm sorry but there doesn't seem to be enough real-world information to warrant a full article here...what there is is being blown out of proportion.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 22:32, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

but that argument is support of a merge, not delete DGG ( talk ) 22:39, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

• • Regardless, in addition to there being enough real-world information to warrant a full article or at worst to justify some kind of redirect, the content has already been merged and as such, we cannot delete per the GFDL. Sincerely, --A Nobody 00:19, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
    • Okay could the two of you please get off my case? DGG, I respect you, though in this case I don't think too much could really be salvaged if anything. However with that said I'll agree there's no prejudice on my part for a merge if it goes that way. And A Nobody...let me vote how I want. You can disagree with me or you can spend that time actually fixing what you rush to rescue. Leaving a bad article after a closed afd still bad is a hollow victory and setup for another AfD down the line by someone else.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 03:13, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
• Delete - The character is does not assert true notability (actual significant coverage in reliable sources), and the content is not worth salvaging. The content that was "merged" is part of an attempt to force the article to be kept, so the edits should be deleted as well. TTN (talk) 02:04, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
  • The character is indeed notable and anyway WP:JNN is not a valid reason for deletion. Sourced out of universe content is indeed worth salvaging. We are here to build an encyclopedia and so no reasonable admin would ever delete merged edits that actual improve other articles. Look, I know it annoys some who for whatever odd reason are bent on deleting to have something merged, but that is what we are supposed to do per WP:IAR and WP:PRESERVE and so upon doing actual research I discovered that Manon is based on a real and noteworthy French resistance fighter and was able to use some of the information from the Manon article to both improve the article on the actual game, which had no real references, and write an article on someone of actual historical importance. How could adhering to some snapshot in time AfD somehow trump using content to improve articles that pretty much no one would reasonably dispute? If we are really here to build an encyclopedia then it is not about forcing anything, but about making the most of the available content and in this particular case we have information that regardless of what you think of her article does actual help two other articles. Moreover, given that she is one of an overall minority of main characters in a game series based on a real world historical figure she is worthy of coverage in some capacity, whether it be continued improvement of this article or further merging, but clearly there is no pressing need to red link here. Sincerely, --A Nobody 02:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
• Keep now has out-of-universe material, and notable as main character from important game. well done. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:57, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
• Comment re disruption of this AfD; see:
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AManon_Batiste&diff=312242721&oldid=185007402
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AManon_Batiste&diff=312248708&oldid=312242721

  Talk:Manon Batiste now asserts that

  • Manon Batiste "must not be deleted so long as Hélène Deschamps Adams exists"
  • Manon Batiste "must not be deleted so long as Medal of Honor: Underground exists"

  See: Misplaced Pages:Guide to deletion#You may edit the article during the discussion where it says:

  • You should exercise extreme caution before merging any part of the article. If you are bold but the community ultimately decides to delete the content, all your mergers must be undone. (This is necessary in order to remain compliant with the requirements of Misplaced Pages's licensing). It is far better to wait until the discussion period is complete unless there is a strong case for merge under the deletion policy.

  This is blatant disruption with the aim of subverting the AfD process.

  Sincerely, Jack Merridew 06:18, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

• Delete as above; this is unencyclopaedic trash. Misplaced Pages *is* a fansite, but it's not supposed to be. Sincerely, Jack Merridew 06:21, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
• Delete Per the above, performing the necessary revision deletion through deletion of the target page and selective restoration. Disruption of AfD through merging in order to force an attribution problem is unacceptable. Protonk (talk) 06:33, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

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