Revision as of 06:21, 14 May 2009

Guidelines: Current Article Issue Discussion

This page is a subpage of Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration. Plese read that page before posting here. You may bring specific dispute issues on articles, categories or templates here. Note other help on reliable sources, point of views, biographies etc. might be found at an appropriate notice board. (See Noticeboard list.) Our discussions are moderated and incivility and other problematic postings will be deleted. Moderators also will move postings about problems with, or suggestions for, the project in general to the Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration talk page. They will archive resolved or dated issues.

Archives

/Archive 1 /Archive 2 /Archive 3

Siege of Jerusalem (1948)

Seems to be a developing dispute on this page. Ceedjee has tagged it for neutrality on the basis that he thinks the title is POV. A very brief discussion of the issues a few months ago resulted in "no consensus". Maybe a few people with some familiarity with this period could take a look? Thanks, Gatoclass (talk) 13:46, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it is important to be familiar with this period.

My point is that we must follow what wp:rs secondary sources (of academic level) use as title to describe the events.

I provided numerous of these and given the title has not been moved, I just wanted to use the pov-tag...

Ceedjee (talk) 18:16, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Background info and article for 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict

Concerning 2008 Israel–Gaza conflict, a background article for 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict, additional info for it has been retrieved from an AfD for another article. That info needs to be summarized and incorporated into 2008 Israel–Gaza conflict.

Please see:

• Talk:2007–2008 Israel–Gaza conflict#2008 material for 2008 Israel–Gaza conflict

Help, editing, and additional input and comments are requested. --Timeshifter (talk) 13:37, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Al-Fakhura school incident

Since this is such an emotional issue for both sides, I'd like to add this page to the collaboration. The Squicks (talk) 19:33, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Arabian Peninsula Article

This is the main Misplaced Pages article for Arabia and the Arabian subcontinent. There has been a continual edit war over the inclusion of historical or geographical material about Syria and Palestine being part of Arabia or Ottoman Arabistan. A Request for comment is currently open on the talk page.harlan (talk) 14:02, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Israel Shahak

I've added Israel Shahak, however feel free to revert. PhilKnight (talk) 23:13, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

massacre

About 1 year ago, we discussed about the issue related to the use of the work massacre and one of the problem was linked with the massacres committed during the 1948 War. At the time, I had started a discussion on the talk page of the article that was never really followed.
I have just made the modifications I suggested and go on working on this. Any comment is welcome.

• Killings and massacres during the 1948 Palestine War

Ceedjee (talk) 14:30, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Six-Day War

There are a group of editors who are routinely deleting well-known quotes from Israeli leaders, historians, and material from published historical accounts about the role of the IDF in the path to war. harlan (talk) 05:08, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Arab citizens of Israel

User:Okedem is repeatedly reverting edits and removing sourced material, giving as the sole reason the fact that the source is Ilan Pappé, of whom s/he writes "Pappe isn't a source for anything but his own opinions. He is a political activist, and not an vaguely objective scholar". Perhaps other editors can also keep an eye on this. RolandR (talk) 21:07, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Occupied Territories section in Israel

Over at Talk:Israel there is a discussion about replacing the section header "Occupied territories" with "disputed territories". I think people can guess where I stand on this, but please go and say what you think..--Peter cohen (talk) 10:43, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

A_land_without_a_people_for_a_people_without_a_land and the denial of the exitence of a Palestinian people

Arising out of discussion at the above article, I'm wondering whether we're missing am article on the debate over Palestinian peoplehood. The article linked above focuses largely on the origin of the phrase itselfwith Christian pre-Zionists and the, apparently mistaken, belief that Jewish Zionists regularly used that phrase. However the phrase itself is emblematic of a view shared by Christian restorationists, the shapers of Western policy on the Middle East around w100 years ago who saw Palestine as an exception to the notion of national self-determiantion, Zionist and early Israeli leaders such as David Ben Gurion and Golda Meir, and advocates of a Greater Syria; the shared view being that there was no such thing as a Palestinian people, instead Palestinians were just inhabitants of one part of a historic Syrian province which provided their real national identity. I can't see any discussion of this view linked from Palestinian people. Is there an article of which I am unaware? Or do people agree that there should be one?--Peter cohen (talk) 20:28, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Peter cohen. wikipedia has many articles about national movements; an article on the rise and development of Palestinian nationalism is long overdue.Historicist (talk) 20:10, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

That's an example of a phrase and certainly some relevant Palestinian phrases should have articles. But it would seem this issue should be addressed in one or more of the articles at Palestinian disambiguation - especially Palestinian people. CarolMooreDC (talk) 23:52, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

POV quoting of Gilad Atzmon

Per the discussion in Talk:Gilad_Atzmon#Atzmon.27s_continued_controversial_writings

• User:Drsmoo opines that “plainly clear that Atzmon is an anti-semite more than he is an anti-zionist” and tries to prove that through selective editing of this recent Interview
• This diff (see last paragraphs) and also reproduced on talk page, shows my more NPOV summary of what Atzmon says which Drsmoo has replaced with a far more inaccurate and POV- pushing summary.

NPOV comments welcome. CarolMooreDC (talk) 14:31, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Carol's edit here; and from the interview she quotes, I draw the conclusion that Atzmon is indeed an antisemite as well as an anti-Zionist. This, however, is my own conclusion, based on a synthesis of Atzmon's statements and writings. As such, I would not edit the article to state that Atzmon is an antisemite. If there are statements from reliable soutces making this assessment of his views, they could be quoted -- and attributed -- without offering this as Wilipedia's own assessment. In any case, Misplaced Pages readers are surely intelligent enough to read and understand what Atzmon writes, and what this means. We don't need to beat them into submission! RolandR (talk) 14:44, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Please tell Drsmoo that! I too just want to let readers draw their own conclusions, without unfairly biasing. But giving his side of the story is seen by some as bias. Of course, 1/3 the article remains a WP:Coatrack to prove that he is an antisemite. Need a good noninvolved editor to clean it out. CarolMooreDC (talk) 14:54, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/2009 IDF T-Shirt controversy

I came across this page, shouldn't this AfD be notified elsewhere so more people would know about the voting? Thanks. Yamanam (talk) 13:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Responded and put in a plug for this project. Something we should do more often! CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:47, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Where to bring meta-issue of double standard on religions in wikipedia?

Editing the Gilad Atzmon article is a study in the double standard in the real world about exploring and criticizing the psycho-dynamics and politics of Islam/Catholicism/etc. and their adherents and doing so to Judaism/Zionism and its adherents. While Atzmon's provocateurish manner of trying to explore the issues certainly has its problems, even the calmest, most intellectually factual and precise professors who dare to approach the latter subject are trashed as antisemites.
The question is: Should this double standard be allowed to be propagated on wikipedia?? This should be a major Meta-level issue in Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration and somehow addressed constructively within the parameters of Request for arbitration on editing on Palestine-Israel articles - or some other forum. What's the best way to do that? CarolMooreDC (talk) 18:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Fatahland

Please help me save the article from removal. TheCuriousGnome (talk) 06:05, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Origina notice moved from project discussion page: AfD on Fatahland: Just recently an article on Fatahland was started. I posted a request for deletion.

Cheers, pedrito - talk - 26.03.2009 07:13

Palestine Think Tank WP:RS?

I put this up here, for specific article and in general since others might want to use in future. Opinions welcome: Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Palestine_Think_Tank Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:55, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Israeli legislative election, 1977

I am currently experiencing repeated difficulty on this page; differences of opinion have gone to 3RR, but not beyond, although I am well past my 1RR pledge. It generally revolves around the impossibility of finding proper NPOV WEIGHT between something/anything added and the opposing view that has allowed nothing to be added. Different editorial opinions and discussion are sought. Thanks, CasualObserver'48 (talk) 15:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Hamas

The recently imposed sanctions on Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/West Bank - Judea and Samaria are already bearing fruit: the article on Hamas is being torn to shreds. Can any of the non-sanctioned editors out there keep an eye on it?

Cheers and thanks, pedrito - talk - 06:20 14.05.2009