Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 02:55, 5 January 2025

George Washington

George Washington (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

• Featured article candidates/George Washington/archive1
• Featured article candidates/George Washington/archive2
• Featured article candidates/George Washington/archive3
• Featured article candidates/George Washington/archive4
• Featured article candidates/George Washington/archive5
• Featured article candidates/George Washington/archive6

Nominator(s): ErnestKrause (talk) 00:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC); Nikkimaria (talk) 01:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

This article is about the founding father George Washington. It is a co-nomination with Nikkimaria and is the sixth time that this page has been nominated. A previous GA nomination of the article from a decade ago was successful though subsequent FAC nominations did not move forward. The current nomination is a significantly trimmed and condensed version of the Washington biography which previously had reached about 230Kb in system size, though now condensed to about 160Kb system size. Looking forward to comments and criticisms from editors interested in this founding father. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Comments from Cmguy777

• Support: I recommend George Washington pass FA nomination. It is well written. The only issue I noticed is the Introduction does not mention why/when Washington joined the Patriot forces. Maybe something like, "Believing Parliamentary Acts and the King were oppressing American colonists, Washington joined the Patriot forces." Maybe something to that effect. Thank you. Cmguy777 (talk) 18:23, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

• Thanks Cmguy777, I've made some amendments to the lead. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:43, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

  Yes. I like your addition Nikkimaria. I think the reader wants to know why Washington initially fought for the British (French Indian War) and then against them (Revolutionary War). That should be mentioned in the introduction section. Thank you. Cmguy777 (talk) 06:08, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

• Optional: Would it be good to briefly mention Washington and cherry tree story is just a myth invented by Weems, in the Early life (1732–1752) section? It is an interesting story. Readers might want to know more about it. I know it is mentioned in the article later. Here is the Mount Vernon article: Cherry Tree Myth. Maybe mention the George Washington Cherry Tree Myth has never been verified. Thank you. Cmguy777 (talk) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• I've added a link for more information on the story in the Legacy section. Since it's a myth, I think that placement is more logical than within the chronology of real events. Nikkimaria (talk) 06:23, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

  Thank you. The article link I gave mentions the following: "little was known about his relationship with his father, who died when Washington was only eleven years old.3 There is almost no surviving historical evidence about Washington's relationship with his father, and Weems’ claims have never been verified.4" It might be good that the reader knows this in the Early life (1732–1752) section by adding little is known of Washington's relationship with his father, using the source provided. Cmguy777 (talk) 15:53, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• I've added a reference regarding his relationship with his father, and also his mother and siblings. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

  Thank you. What reference was added, or where in the article was it added? Cmguy777 (talk) 02:53, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

• Here. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Image review (passed)

Given the large number of images, I'm only going to highlight any issues:

• File:Residence of the Washington Family on the Rappahannock.jpg - The template reads "The copyright situation of this work is theoretically uncertain, because in the country of origin copyright lasts 70 years after the death of the author, and the date of the author's death is unknown." Given that this work appears to have been published in the US, that's not accurate. I get that this is intended to allow for copyright status in other jurisdictions, but I wonder if there are better templates.
• Jacques Auguste Regnier died in 1860, so File:Washington the soldier.jpg should be PD-100 in addition to the US PD Template.
• File:Martha Custis Washington as a young woman circa 1843 (Steel engraving).jpg - Do we have years of death for Cheney and Kellogg?
• File:George Washington, 1776.jpg - Ideally we should have a proper licensing template as well (PD-100/PD-1929 as per the other Peale painting)
• File:Washington taking command of the American Army at Cambridge, 1775 - NARA - 532874.jpg] - Given that the source identifies the work as having been created in 1775, this can't be PD-USGov (Bicentennial Commission wasn't active in Washington's lifetime). Better tags are needed.

• Removed. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:19, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

• File:Gilbert Stuart, George Washington (Lansdowne portrait, 1796).jpg - The source provided (Smithsonian) does not seem to point to the same digitization (colours are less vibrant in the SI's)

• Not sure what significance that has? Digitization doesn't typically garner separate copyright. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:19, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

• Not a copyright concern, but rather one of verifiability. That being said, that's a different ball of wax that could easily derail discussion, and this isn't the article on the painting that would require such a detailed discussion. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 02:34, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

• File:Washington Monument Dusk Jan 2006.jpg - No tag for copyright status of the monument. Also, alt-text does not begin with a capital letter.

• The monument does not meet the US threshold of originality. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:19, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

• Fair enough. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 02:34, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

• File:George Washington Presidential $1 Coin obverse.png and File:2006 Quarter Proof.png - Source links are dead.
• Coin and stamp images don't have WP:ALTTEXT
• Per MOS:IMGSYN, captions should be last; several have the alt text last.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:54, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks Chris, all fixed except as noted. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:19, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks. I can't tell if I'll have time for such a massive prose review, but marking the image review as passed. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 02:34, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

AirshipJungleman29

Alright, let's have another VA3 bio. Comments to follow; as always, they will be suggestions, not demands, so feel free to refuse with justifications. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:39, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Lead

• Per MOS:ROLEBIO, the "and planter" bit of the first sentence is relatively non-integral to Washington's importance, and could be removed. The full "Founding Father of the United States" is also a little top-heavy (especially as "of the United States" is duplicated in the first sentence) but I don't quite know how you could slim it.
• Per MOS:LEADREL, "Washington's first public office was as surveyor of its Culpeper County from 1749 to 1750" is relatively little emphasised in the body (around 75 words) so probably doesn't need a mention in the lead.
• "In 1752, he became a major in the Virginia Regiment. During the French and Indian War, Washington was promoted to lieutenant colonel and subsequently became head of the Virginia Regiment." is to my eyes, slightly too focused on positions attained, especially considering his role in starting the war. One mention of the Virginia Regiment should do.
• The lead links "American Revolutionary War" twice (as it does for Patriot (American Revolution)) and doesn't give its start or end dates, which are likely needed per WP:EXPLAINLEAD. In fact, the only event between 1752 and 1787 the lead dates is his 1775 appointment.
• "His 1796 farewell address became a preeminent statement on republicanism in which he wrote about the importance of national unity and the dangers that regionalism, partisanship, and foreign influence pose to it." is a little clunky grammatically, suggest rephrasing.
• You could mention Mount Vernon in the lead. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:57, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks AirshopJungleman29, I've done some reworking of the lead. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:13, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Early life - Colonial military career

• "Even though Washington had not served the customary apprenticeship, Thomas Fairfax appointed him surveyor of Culpeper County, Virginia" might be undue, but why would Fairfax do that? Also, any relation to William?

• They were cousins, and it was probably due to the family connection. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• You might want to give Saint-Pierre's full name at least once.

• Done. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• A map of some of the events of the French-Indian war would be handy; there is ample space for images.

• Added. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• The Battle of Fort Necessity is not referred to by name when describing its events, meaning the later referral to it is slightly confusing. It could have read something like "a French force attacked Fort Necessity with 900 men" and that would probably be fine. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• Done. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Edwininlondon

Great work on such an epic topic. With the usual caveats of neither being an expert nor a native speaker, I have the following comments:

• what I miss in the first paragraph are the words independence and Great Britain . It's all too implicit for me. In the second paragraph this is mentioned, but I feel there is too much repetition between first and second paragraph. Not sure how to fix it, but the current first 2 paragraphs don't feel quite right to me. Perhaps the first paragraph should have fewer details and perhaps say something along the lines of "Washington played a central role before and during the American Revolution leading to independece from Britain." And then the 2nd paragraph can talk about leading Patriots etc. Just an idea.

Nikkimaria is reworking the lede. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:23, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• the Treaty of Paris in 1783 acknowledging --> is there a comma missing after 1783?

The treaty is the noun and acknowledging the verb portion, better without comma. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:31, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• with "considerable force" and "precision" --> who are we quoting here?

Chernow's words. Added to article now. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:28, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• in the Valley --> you mean Shenandoah Valley?

Shenandoah added. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:21, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• but found undisciplined militia --> just checking if maybe an s is missing? (previous sentence uses militias)

References to "local militias" is distinct from the reference to the Army as a militia. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:17, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• above Boston --> north of

Change to north. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

"Above" is actually correct - the Heights were geographically south of Boston but were above it in elevation, which was a military advantage. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• emboldened his critics --> rephrase so it's clear whose critics

Those who favored Gates as a military leader for the war. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

More to follow. Edwininlondon (talk) 06:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• In 1779, Arnold began supplying British spymaster John André with sensitive information intended to capture West Point, a key American defensive position on the Hudson River. --> this puzzled me: how could Americans want to capture an American defensive position? Perhaps instead of "intended to capture" spell it out more, something along the lines of "of how the British could capture"

Add emphasis on British as adversary. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:08, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• equivalent to $6.39 million today --> use a specific year as reference point

Chernow's quote was more as a comparison to the Vice President's numbers. Replace with Chernow quote. Inflation is computed from the start date given in the 1700s and may be computed up to the present date. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:58, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• "the first and only time a sitting American president led troops in the field" --> does this have to be a quote? If so, who is quoted?

Quote removed since Madison apparently was in the field during the War of 1812 while president: .ErnestKrause (talk) 20:58, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• I see instances of "the US" and "the U.S.". Should there not be a bit of consistency in abbreviation? In any case, per "between the US and Spanish territory" should be "between the United States and Spanish territory"

Switching to MOS preference for spelling it out. In other places it seems redundant and could be dropped as an optional adjective. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:37, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• the Slavery section could benefit from a bit of trimming of details

Its trimmed further now by a quarter, as part of the main article link to Misplaced Pages featured article on Washington and slavery. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:29, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• Namesakes and monuments: I miss the year in which the federal city was named after Washington, and perhaps by whom, so it doesn't look like he named it himself

The original plans for the city from the 1790s did not include the name of it which might be pointed out or discussed somewhere. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:21, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• Washington protested to "Robert Cary & Co." that the low prices he received for his tobacco and for the inflated prices he was forced to pay on second-rate goods from London --> grammar?

Adjusted grammar. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:10, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• there is an audio file of a version of the article from 5 years ago. A few thousand revisions since. I don't think that can stay.

Its not clear how often this is used, and it is left over as an audio version of the GA article. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:10, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

I've removed it - it's quite outdated at this point, it would make sense to create a new one if this is promoted and someone is so inclined. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• In the Infobox, the order of the offices listed puzzles me. The Chancellor of the College of William & Mary seems least significant so I would expect it to come last.

Priority of office seems to be the order being used, with presidency office coming first. Chancellor comes right after presidency. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:10, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

I don't see any guidance in the documentation for Infobox Officeholder about the order. I have seen reverse chronological order used in several infoboxes for U.S. presidents. But that is hard to apply to this case, since his tenure as Chancellor overlapped his presidency.

Our article, Chancellor of the College of William & Mary, states that the position is "ceremonial", which explains how Washington could have held such an important-sounding title while also being the first president of the United States. The workload was not too heavy. Bruce leverett (talk) 20:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

I've changed the ordering. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• Washington Crossing the Delaware (1851) caption: can we add name painter? So it doesn't look like crossing took place in 1851

Added. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:00, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

That's it for prose. Edwininlondon (talk) 11:35, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Kavyansh

Placeholder. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 04:17, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

HF

It'll be a couple days before I can get to this but I want to take a look. Hog Farm _Talk 21:37, 4 January 2025 (UTC)