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Revision as of 02:53, 3 April 2007

Alleged "Vandalism"

I see you've tagged with me with vandalism over the "Zayd ibn Ali" article, even though I politely explained to you my point of view on the discussion page (which you did not care to answer). I don't see how my revert was "vandalism" while yours was not. My advice to you is that it does no service to your faith to post the kind of article that you did, because this is an encyclopedia that aims for a neutral tone and is read by members of many religions (as well as non-religious people), who will find the overtly religious tone of your article off-putting and offensive. However, if you insist on posting religious hagiography instead of a neutral biography, I won't try to stop you, nor do I have any interest in engaging into a revert-war with you. Please, however, try to engage in a dialogue before tagging other editors with "vandalism". Thank you. Slackerlawstudent 17:03, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

• I arranged the article in a fashion that only non religious material is considered the main section. All references to Zayd ibn Ali in texts mentioned in Sayyid-Ali Al-Zaidi's article " A short history..." is in the section of other literature. As for your work on Zayd ibn Ali's role in the 740 rebellion, i dedicated an entirely new page to the revolt and placed all your research in the article Zaidi Revolt.Al-Zaidi 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Minor Edits

Remember to mark your edits as minor only when they genuinely are (see Misplaced Pages:Minor edit). "The rule of thumb is that an edit of a page that is spelling corrections, formatting, and minor rearranging of text should be flagged as a 'minor edit'." BhaiSaab 23:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Shahadah in the Branches of Religion

Also, Shahadah is not among the Branches of Religion. BhaiSaab 23:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, only four of the pillars are in the Branches of Religion. The Shahadah is found among two of the Roots of Religion, i.e. Tauheed and Nabuwwat. BhaiSaab 04:02, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

BhaiSaab, You Say that it is found in the roots of religion i.e. Tawhid and Nabuwwah, actually you are looking at two particular beliefs. Tawhid is the belief in one god, and Nabuwwah is the belief in the prophets, prophetSSSSSS plural and is not the same as Shahadah, which is "I bear witness that there is no God but Allah; and I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah." Thus Shahadah is particular and is different from Tawhid and Nabuwwah that are particular to their own definitionsAl-Zaidi

Salams. You make an interesting point. Please refer me to any place in the Quran where the shahada is explicitly stated the way it is done, and is stated to be a compulsary declaration. Your point about nubuwwah being a general belief in all prophets is irrelevant. In order to be a muslim, and follow nubuwwah, one must believe in ALL of God's prophets. We witness him specifically to be the messenger of God because he was the last, final prophet - the one through whom we recieved our religion. In order to proclaim the shahada, one must first believe in tawheed and nubuwwah. The shahada is only an expression of belief in these 2 things. Therefore, the shahada itself is not part of the Branches of Religion because it is not an act or obligation, only an expression of held beliefs. Additionally, one can argue that the shahada is actually a part of salat because no salat is complete without the shahada. Moreover, this discussion is inherently irrelevant because the article is about what shias consider as the Branches of Religion, and all the sources on shia beliefs I have seen do not include shahada as part of the Branches of Religion. If you have any sources that say otherwise, please present them. --aliasad 11:12, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Right, regardless of any of these arguments no sources I've seen show 11 Branches of Religion - they show 10, excluding the Shahadah. BhaiSaab 17:33, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

In Response to your messgae to me: Brother you want a source in the Quran?, okay give me the sura where it says how to perform Salat? can't find it? of course because it was given to us from the Prophet (saw) and the imams (as) If you are to strip Shahadah from its unique place then you must strip it from the five pillars of Sunni Islam. Secondly nabuwwah is different and is relavent because if i were to say i believe in one god ans Jesus is his messenger then am i muslim? i do not think so. thus Shahadah is unique from tawhid and nabuwwah and deserves its own position. Al-Zaidi

Please refer me the any hadith that says that the shahada must be declared the way it is done now. The Quran doesn't say how to perform salat but it does talk about the need for it to be performed. Why would would you not be a muslim in testifying that Jesus(as) was a messenger of God? Doesn't mean you're denying the prophethood of any of the other prophets. You could go on and testify that the rest of the messengers were messengers of God, what's stopping you? The shahada can be modified in many ways to take into account various held beliefs, and thats exactly what the shahada is - an expression of beliefs. The branches of religion are the practices of Islam. Roots of Religion are the beliefs, and shahada is an expression of belief. Of course, I still haven't seen any shia source having shahada as part of the branches of religion. This video may be of interest to you. --aliasad 18:10, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Assalamu Alaikum,

You will find neither the "Five Pillars of Islam" or the "Branches of Religion" categorized in such a way in the Qur'an. Regardless of your opinion of whether it should or should not be in the Branches of Religion, the fact is that it is not within them, and no Shi'a source I have read includes the Shahadah in the Branches of Religion. See Misplaced Pages:Verifiability. BhaiSaab 16:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Please do not insert Shahadah in the Roots of Religion article either. It will confuse readers into thinking that it is actually considered one of the roots. BhaiSaab 05:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

It is present, but it is neither categorized under Roots of Religion or Branches of Religion. It's implications, however, are obviously found in both. BhaiSaab 05:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

it is present but not categorised hmm i see so it is not a fundamental. interesting that the core concept of Islam is not present in your readings of Shi'i Islam. Then you mean to say that if i look at the categories of Shi'i Islam i can say that they are hanifs? because the hanifs are monotheists and believe in the prophets but have no central prophetic concept with Ibrahim al-Hanif as the christians with Jesus and Muslims with Muhammad. so what is the different between the hanifs and the shi'is? it can't be the imams because that is the difference with the sunnis. so? where is the core distinction of Shi'is if declaration to one god and to Muhammad is not present? The root of Shi'i Islam is not the belief in Muhammad as God's last messenger as the sunnis? this seems to be a bias against Shi'is.Al-Zaidi

I don't know if you're Shi'a or not, but I'm not trying to attack Shi'a Islam by removing the Shahadah from those two pages. The fact is that the Shahadah is categorized under neither category, and whenever Shi'a describe Risalat, their third root of religion, they describe it ending with the Prophet Muhammad(SAW). If Shi'a don't categorize Shahadah under neither the roots or branches, we're not supposed to do it at Misplaced Pages either. BhaiSaab 05:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

If the Shi'is according to you satisfy this in the third root Nabuwwah, risalat, then please explain why Sunnis do have both Shahadah and nabuwwah, risalat? there is a difference? obviously yes there is. Secondly when it comes to the belief in the prophet muhammad Shi'is just as sunnis believe him to be the last and the prophet of their religion. so either you take shahadah out of the five pillars of sunni islam or you add it to the roots of religion of Shi'i Islam.Al-Zaidi

You will need to ask Shi'a Ayatollahs to add it to the Roots of Religion before you can do it on Misplaced Pages then. BhaiSaab 16:41, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Muhammad

Hi Al-Zaidi. Could you please give us your opinion re whether Muhammad established islam or not? There's a debate right here Talk:Muhammad. Cheers -- Szvest 17:21, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Indian Sub continent Zaidis

Hi Al-Zaidi. I would like to gain information of Zaidis present in Yemen. Can u please provide me some. Because me (also Zaidi) belongs to Indian Sub-Continent and our genealogical tree roots to Zaid ibn Imam Zainul Abedeen ibn Imam Husayn. Thanks Zaidi 15:44, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Some Zaidis are known as Wasitis. Zayd ibn Ali was martyred in Kufa, Iraq, many of his descendents either returned to al-Hijaz or remained in Iraq. Some of those who stayed in Iraq settled in Wasit. Some descendants from Wasit then moved to the Indian subcontinent. These Zaidis believe in twelve Imams and are part of the Shia Ithna Asharia. Most of them settled in India and Pakistan. The biggest group of Zaidis believing in twelve Shia Imams is known as Saadat-e-Bara. Saadat means descendant of the Prophet Muhammad and Bara means twelve in Hindi and Urdu. Saadat-e-Bara's numbers are highest in Karachi (Pakistan) and Muzaffarnagar (India).

NOTE* The Descendents of Zaid that stayed in Iraq and then moved to the subcontinent have the last name Zaidi. Zaid's descendent that returned to Al-Hijaz and then travelled to al-Asir and Sana'a have the last name Al-Zaidi. Basically Those who have the last name Zaidi are from the Subcontinent and those who have Al-Zaidi are Arab. Sub continent zaidis are not to be confused with the zaidis of Yemen. In Yemen there are two types of Zaidis: Al-Zaidis whom are descendents of Zaid ibn Ali and Zaidis, whom are followers of the Zaidi Fiqh

Al-Zaidi

Zaidis

Well that info relates with Indian Zaidis. What about Yemeni Zaidis? Regards,,

Do yemeni al-zaidis are fivers or twelvers. ?

One last question if u dont mind. what is the present status of Yemeni Zaidi. mean to say who is their (your) current imam. because we Indian Zaidis (including myself the 39 descendent of Zaid ibn Ali ibn Husayn) are twelver shia and our current imam is Al-Mehdi. Zaidi

Like i said there are two types of Zaidis in Yemen, Al-Zaidis whom are descendents of Zaid and Zaidis who are the followers of the Zaidi Fiqh Fivers. There are Al-Zaidis who are Fivers and those who are Twelvers. As for the Fivers, the Imamate is still open since the last Zaidi Imam of 1967 CE. Any Sayyid who is a jurist and is sane has all five senses and will fight against tyranny can be the imam. Al-Zaidi

List of Yemenis

Assalamu alaikum I see that you added your own name to this list. This list is to include only notable Yemenis so why do you think you belong in this list? --Inahet 03:11, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Yemen population

Greetings Al-Zaidi,

on Yemen page, you wrote:
Yemenis are divided into two principal Islamic religious groups: 42-48% Shi'a and 49-55% Sunni. This is broken up as: 30-40% of the Zaidi order of Shi'a Islam, 8-15% of the Ja'fari and Isma'ili orders of Shi'a Islam, and 55% of the Shafi'i order of Sunni Islam.

However, you didn't mention your resources, so please write your references in the references section. I think the numbers you wrote are big ones, so I really want to know your resources.

With my best regards,
Aymx (Don't imitate, innovate)

"Religion: Sunni Muslim 55%, Shi'a Muslim 42%" Yemen Embassy in Canada ]

Oman 60,000 2.2% Saudi Arabia 1,400,000 5.5% Yemen 15,000,000 73% Total 17,000,000 ]

religious affiliation: Muslim 99,9% (of which Sha'fi-Sunnî 53%; Zaydi-Shî'î 47%) ]

Al-Zaidi

86.108.118.165

Assalaamu alaykum,

Just wanted to note that I've moved your discussion with 86.108.118.165 from Talk:Yemen to User talk:86.108.118.165. That way he will see a message informing him he has comments the next time he edits. For your information, if you see an unsigned comment on a talk page, use the page history to get their IP and the time of the edit, and add it after the comment using Template:unsigned2. That way you get a convenient link to their talk page for people to add comments.

Maas salaama, Earle Martin 10:00, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

The rafidi and nasibi articles

I just worked over the nasibi article -- it was completely garbled, probably by an anonymous editor I call the Angry Bahraini and AnonMoos calls the Iraqi Dinar Vandal. Any mention of the terms rafidi and nasibi seems to enrage him and he has been garbling both articles (as well as following me and AnonMoos around WP reverting anything we write). I stripped the article of anything save the fact that the term is a term of abuse. It would be nice to have a cite showing how it is used.

Now I have to go check the rafidi article. He probably got that one too. I think it's important to have the terms in WP, so that someone doesn't read them on a website and use them without knowing that they're offensive to some. (As I did.) Zora 19:26, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Human rights in Yemen

Salam,

We need your opinion here Talk:Human_rights_in_Yemen. Thank you Jidan 15:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The Human Rights situation in Yemen is trivial because there was a media ban on the events that occurred in the Sa’dah governorate. The Human Rights issue in Yemen is not limited to one sect or creed. Women's rights as well as the rights of journalists have been an issue with the Yemeni government since even before the Sa’dah events. As for the situation between the Shi'i and Sunni in Yemen, it is varied across Yemen. Within the Sunni realm, there is an increase of people, mostly men, shifting from the Shafi'i school to the Salafi-Wahhabi version of Islam. It is also true that even some of the Zaidi youth have been known to shift to the Salafi-Wahhabi version of Islam. The reason for this shift is due to two reasons: in the former South Yemen, a Marxist regime took control, and religion was an element that was disallowed in a Communist state. Saudi Arabia funded a mass effort to maintain Islam in South Yemen. The version of Islam that was propagated was not Shafi'i but the Salafi-Wahhabi version of Islam. After Unification, there was no need to continue the mass effort in South Yemen. The resources were then shifted to the Northern tribal areas, where Zaidism was in the majority. Thus one of the largest and well funded Salafi-Wahhabi institutions, the Dar al-Hadeeth House Center, was built in Dammaj in the Sa‘dah governorate, the heartland of the Zaidis. It is obvious that tensions would arise in this type of situation. The problem today has several layers, the fall of Saddam's regime in Iraq, did cause an influx of Iraqi military personnel to obtain advisory positions in the Yemeni army. President Saleh and Saddam were good friends, hence President Saleh's support for Iraq in the 2nd Gulf War in 1991. This relationship allowed the Ba'thists to gain a larger base of operations in Yemen. They do have positions in the government just as the Salafi-Wahhabis and Zaidis. In Yemen the majority of Shi'is are Zaidi but there is a growing number of Ja'faris since the 1980s. The Ja'fari community in Yemen before the 1980s was minimal, with the mass influx of Shi'i books from Iran and the Shi'i workers from Iraq, the Ja'faris have a stable community in Sana'a and Ma'rib. As for the Shi'i Human Rights issue, there are several elements: from 1962-70, there was a civil war in North Yemen, after which there was the establishment of the Yemen Arab Republic. Once this happened all funding of Zaidi schools from the government ceased. Religious schools were shut down and the teachings of the Zaidi sect were limited to their mosques. The generic form of Islam became Sunnism due to the large number of Yemeni workers returning from the Gulf States in the 1990s, who were influenced by the Islam of the Gulf States. In Yemen the Salafi-Wahhabi institutions received funding from Saudi Arabia, thus they were allowed to continue teaching in their institutes. The lack of funds and schools is the first element for the decline in Zaidism. By contrast it is true that Ja'fari Shi'ism is increasing but just like the Zaidis they have been threatened by the Sa'dah events. The Sa’dah events start with the rebellion of al-Houthi, he was a Zaidi cleric that fought against the Yemeni government because he claims that the Yemeni government is cooperating with the US and Israel. This led to a mass effort by the Yemeni military to sweep all support away from al-Houthi by exercising violent military might. This is where the Human Rights question is raised. The actions of the army are akin to that of the Ba'thists in Iraq and the Wahhabi extremists. There has been a media ban issued on the Sa'dah events and journalists who have written on the subject have been jailed. The actions taken by the military and security personnel were not limited to the al-Houthi supporters; they included acts against Zaidi villages and Ja’faris. Security personnel denied Ja'fari scholars like Sheikh ‘Ala ad-Din al-Mousawi to return to Yemen from his trip to UAE. In 1999, the Fatima al-Zahra mosque, in the al-Haraja village of the Khawlan Zaidi tribe was shelled. Closing institutions, confiscating Shi'i books and the jailing of Zaidi clerics on Eid ul-Ghadeer in 2005, are all examples of actions taken by the military forces. It is true that Ayatullah Sistani in Najaf but also Ayatullah Ruhani in Mashhad have voiced concern because there are reports that the military personnel are harassing villagers, killing innocent civilians indiscriminately, shelling and bombing of villages and the confiscation of Shi’i books like the Najh al-Balagha of ‘Ali ibn Abu Talib and as-Sahifah as-Sajjadiyah of ‘Ali ibn Hussain, that are in turn being burned. Thus there is evidence of misconduct on the part of the military personnel regarding Human Rights violations. These violations have led to many accusations of “genocide”. This however is to be decided by the United Nations Human Rights Council. Al-Zaidi 7:07, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Thank you ver much for your very informative entry. Good luck in your thesis! ;) Jidan 14:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism warning

Please stop. If you continue to vandalize Misplaced Pages, as you did to Islam and slavery, you will be blocked from editing. Arrow740 00:34, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Please explain your recent edit to Islam and slavery. Arrow740 02:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)