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==Tom Wesselmann==
By the way, glad to see I'm not the only established editor who gets blocked around here ;) ] 23:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

:Hi Ceoil. Thanks, but I don't agree with the the whole found objects/found art terminology in relation to ]. In my opinion it is unnecessary. ] (]) 03:43, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

== Inquiry on AfDs ==

Hi Bus stop,
I'm interestd in the AfDs process in Misplaced Pages and notice that you once involved in AfDs. I'm not sure whether you find that some discussers are admins while some are not. I'm just wondering whether you care about the adminships of the participants in deletion discussions. Does the referee's adminship affect your attitude towards the result of AfDs? Thanks. ] (]) 02:41, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

== Talk page guidelines ==

See here: ].

] (]) 03:03, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

== hatting ==

Is basically hiding - I would remove the hatting completely - but if its there fopr a reason allow Andy to adding the post that he feels is misleading also. ] (]) 18:19, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
==Tawana Brawley==
Bus stop, it's nice to find myself in complete agreement with you for a change. :) Cheers, --'''<font color="#0000FF">]</font><font color=" #FFBF00">]</font><font color="#0000FF">]</font>''' 12:17, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks for that expressed sentiment. : ) ] (]) 17:20, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

== BLP stuff ==

Hey :) I recall we may have disagreed on BLP topics before. Also (and how to put this delicately...) I have a recollection that some people on "my side" might not have treated you in the best way. However; I'm a big believer in taking two disparate view, clashing them together and turning them into a compromise.

With that in mind, I find your latest comment on WT:BLP very interesting and an area worth exploring.

''ErrantX—Categories are often not a perfect fit. In some instances the decision could be made that a person be put in mutually exclusive Categories. In such instances, part of the procedure that should be followed is to put an "alert" next to their name's listing in each of the mutually exclusive Categories explaining the name's presence in the other Category.''

When I read your first post r.e. this idea I wondered if this is what you meant - but assumed (rather stupidly) that it was not. I agree; this is a fantastic idea and would be a really interesting thing to explore.

Categorising people (and indeed most things) is sucky and hard - but with notations like those you propose we could make categorisation a lot less a binary option. As I sai in my comment - if you are viewing Cat X you are after a certain sort of individual - and such a notation system would be an interesting new level of meta-data.

The whole idea of disparate categories I agree with. After all, it does not say "Currentlty a LGBT person".

''You raise the question as to how Categories are used. I think I generally first become aware of the existence of a Category by looking at the bottom of an article's page.''

Yes, that makes sense. And I suspect my intro was the same. With that said we have to predict sensibly what readers are looking for. I suppose some subset are looking to find "Actors who are gay". And on the face of it I agree there is nothing wrong with wanting to explore that intersection.

On the other hand I argue that categorising definite intersections in themselves is non-optimal. We have Evans , categorised as a gay actor. But what if someone is looking for a gay, welsh, actor, born in the 70's. Our categories don't do much to help that. Instead our categories reflect a bias for what we consider "important" about a person (in this case sexuality).

And this is where the system is broken - categories are good for identifying notable intersections (i.e. "this guy is gay, and and actor, which is interesting because..."). But they are also used for metadata (this guy is gay, born in the 70's, and actor, etc.)

I suspect it is this ambiguity that causes so many problems.

''You mention individuals getting annoyed by being in the wrong Category. That can serve as one of our considerations—categorization according to "fuzzy criteria" can be compliant with an individual's wishes I think''

I argue, here, that it is unfair (somewhat) to say we will only respond to actual requests for category removal. The vast majority of people are confused on how WP works behind the scenes, and we are somewhat lucky, really, that Evans does not seem to be reading his WP biography. In all honesty I have had my neutrality tested by the pleas of some people to OTRS (and I am an editor who tends to favour personal requests :)), and I've only been on board there a little while.

I wonder if there is a new system we could employ - where metadata was more explicit (with the search improved to respond to that) and categories were less intersections and more tags. --''']''' <sup>(])</sup> 00:33, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

== No misunderstanding ==

It is a mark of civility that one can disagree with another over a topic, and still wish them good health. Thanks for kind thoughts - as you can see, I now have the use of both hands although one is still in a sling. --] (]) 11:38, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
:Great! My wording was a little weird. I should have just said something cliche-like, such as ''wishing you a speedy recovery.'' Anyway—those thoughts apply now. ] (]) 15:56, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

== Use of edit summaries ==

It's generally a bad idea to use edit summaries as arguments in favor of your changes or as rebuttals to changes you are reverting, as you did here . This creates an atmosphere where reverts are used in place of talk page discussion. See ] for more. Regards, ] (]) 21:00, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

== Blocked ==

I don't know what choice I have. You are blocked for 31 hours for edit warring on ]. ] (]) 18:21, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

:How could be problematic?

:By the way I find at ]: ''"Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion."''

:The statement, unsourced, about ], that ''"He has rejected formal religion"'' should not be allowed to remain in the article for any length of time at all. No source is saying that, and it is defamatory, in the context of an individual who has in fact endorsed his being Jewish.

:The cited source, which happens to be ], says that, Do you think The Jewish Chronicle is unaware that non-practicing Jews are Jews nevertheless?

:There is a difference between rejecting religious practice and rejecting religion. He in fact ''does not'' reject his religion. He in fact asserts that he is a Jew.

:The statement that ''"He has rejected formal religion"'' required removal. The source provided in support of that statement in no way supports it. And it happens to be a statement that directly contradicts Adam Levine's own statement in respect to that point. And ] clearly calls for the removal of material that is questionable in such ways.

:But again: why, or how, is my edit a problem after the elapsed time of 31 hours? ] (]) 18:57, 25 August 2011 (UTC) ] (]) 18:40, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

::There is no time limit on edit warring. This is a slower moving edit war, but it is an edit war. You may want to review ] with an eye to what it has to say about what you were doing. If you disagree with the block, you can appeal it using {{tl|unblock}}. ] (]) 19:46, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

:::Causa sui—you Protected the article with the language ''"He has no formal religion"'' in it. Now you are blocking me for removing what is essentially the same thing: ''"...has rejected formal religion."''

:::The language ''"has no formal religion/has rejected formal religion"'' is a WP:BLP violation. I waited 31 hours between edits; that language should have been removed sooner.

:::All sources say that Adam Levine is Jewish. How would you or anyone else arrive at the conclusion that he has no religion when he and others refer to him numerous times as a Jew?

:::Did you look at the source for ''"He has no formal religion"'' before Protecting the article with the referred-to language in it? The source says that ''"Levine has rejected formal religious practice".'' The source does not say that he has no religion. In point of fact he is Jewish. That he does not practice his religion in no way detracts from his being a Jew. It places him in crowded company—a large percentage of the Jews of the world are nonobservant. About a nonobservant Jew one does not say that they have no religion unless one wishes to offend them.

:::We do not have to support parochial views of Jews in our articles and we are unjustified in doing so when sources are not available in support of such views. ] (]) 17:30, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

::::I have no real opinion about which verbiage to use, and I won't debate it with you. The actual content dispute is very much a ] thing at this point. (As to which version I protected, I always take care to protect ].) I think you would do well to step away from this, frankly. The disruption caused by the edit warring ''vastly'' outweighs the significance of the thing being debated. All I have to say beyond that is that I hope you now understand what edit warring is, why edit warring is unacceptable, and why I have to block people who do it. Regards, ] (]) 17:35, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

:::::Causa sui—you say ''"I hope you now understand what edit warring is, why edit warring is unacceptable, and why I have to block people who do it."''

:::::But in fact you have not blocked for the addition of the material that we are discussing: , ] (]) 18:11, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

::::::I can't make myself any more clear. I blocked you for edit warring after many warnings, not for introducing inappropriate content. I doubt continued conversation will be productive, and I feel that I've more than fully explained my rationale for the block. If you still disagree with it, please use {{tl|unblock}}. ] (]) 18:39, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

{{outdent}}Causa sui—I'm not sure how you are misunderstanding what I am saying, but you say that you did not block me for ''"introducing inappropriate content."''

I am fully aware that you did not block me for introducing inappropriate content. I have been arguing all along that other editors have introduced inappropriate content:

''"has no formal religion."''

''"He has no formal religion."''

''"He has no formal religion."''

''"has rejected formal religion."''

''"has rejected formal religion."''

The above 5 instances are all inappropriate and problematic with regard to ] for the following reasons:

1. ) It is unsourced. In point of fact the source only refers to ''practicing'' the religion.

2. ) It is offensive. The individual as well as others refer to him as a Jew.

3. ) It is off-topic. The notability of the subject is that of a musician. All that is called for is a bare mention that he is Jewish. Certainly we should not be contradicting him with unsourced and gratuitously added material.

It would be my contention that there is justification for the edit I last made, but for which I was blocked. I read at ]:

''"Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion."''

The material I removed is a contradiction of what Adam Levine says about himself and most importantly it is not sourced.

Furthermore, 31 hours elapsed since my previous edit. During that time I made extensive use of a discussion that I initiated at the ] about ].

I believe <strike>three</strike> four editors expressed some degree of support in that discussion for the removal of such extraneous material. Please see , , , and By the way you had input into that discussion on the WP:BLPN, so were unlikely unaware that support was expressed for the trimming back of wording to little more than just a mention that Adam Levine is Jewish. ] (]) 20:45, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

:causa sui - you really missed this one. bus stop simply said that people have been putting in bad material and he has removed it. it seems like they were taunting him. i don't care if he is blocked for 31 hours or not. i do care that you feel that his edits are incorrect (and not the way he did the editing). that is baffling. ] (]) 18:20, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

== What the heck are you playing at? ==

Bus stop, you moved my post on ]. I moved it back, explaining why I put it there. Now you have moved it again. I suggest you (a) move it back before I complain about you edit-warring, and then (b) respond to my suggested text. I thought that we were actually getting nearer a resolution of this, and now you start playing silly games with my posts. Are you actually trying to sort this issue out? If so, you seem to be going about it in a strange way... ] (]) 22:09, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

:Bus stop, we have a proposed text, based largely on your suggestions, awaiting your response. Will you please indicate whether you agree with it, and if not, then tell us why. This issue has dragged on far too long already, and I see no reason to wait for you if you are unwilling to respond. ] (]) 17:13, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

== Rabbi Matisyahu Salomon ==

Thank you for correcting the spelling of his name, but Rabbi should not be part of the name of ].] (]) 21:08, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

== AN/I ==

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you.
] (]) 23:02, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

:Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you.

:Same place - I suggest you respond this time. ] (]) 23:12, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

== Jim Gary - Sculpture article ==

Thanks for letting me know, I presume that I may join in if I feel it is needed. BTW I am posting today about the listing that Gary's fine art garnered for him in Who Was Who in American Art, 1564-1975. _ _ _ _ 83d40m (talk) 19:34, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

== You clearly have no idea how ineffective and counterproductive your talk-page edits are ==

Long-winded, overly repetitive comments put into sections where they will inevitably be considered a distraction -- yep, counterproductive. Just sayin'. ] (]) 08:15, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
==Modernist painting==
Here's a link to Greenberg's essay - ...] (]) 19:38, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
==Celebrate==
thanks Modernist ] (]) 12:51, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
] (]) 13:28, 24 December 2011 (UTC)]]
== Wheelie bin urinal listed at ] ==
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect ]. Since you had some involvement with the ''Wheelie bin urinal'' redirect, you might want to participate in ] (if you have not already done so). <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> ] (]) 20:29, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

== Thanks ==
Giving me a bit of hope that wikipedia isn't over political after all. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 10:46, 7 February 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Talmud ==

I noted you are contributor of the article on ] so would like your advice. I wish to document the but am uncertain in which section to interpolate this material. Thanks<br />Best Wishes ] (]) 22:45, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Your thoughts <br />Best Wishes ] (]) 00:04, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

== WQA ==

If you need me to edit or need a clarification, feel free to put it on my talk page. This way we won't be obfuscating the primary WQA issue. Thanks! ] (]) 02:01, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

==Mona Lisa==

Who "considers" the Mona Lisa to be famous? Which group of people consider that? Misplaced Pages? The sum total of millions of visitors to the work, reproductions, parodies, etc etc make it the "most famous", but ''who" can we say "considers" it the most famous"? Is it exactly the same group of people who ''know'' its fame, or a different group? If you are going to "considers"then tell us who does the considering.

And as for leaving leeway that there ''might'' be an equally famous picture: There is no equally famous painting. The Last Supper and Michelangelo's Creation of Adam come in behind it.

] (]) 02:44, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

==]==
I noticed your comment on ]. There is currently a dispute on ] that we could use your assistance on. Please take a look, and comment on the talk page (])] (]) 15:23, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

==Sandbox draft of the exodus==
I created a sandbox version of the exodus page at ]. Please come over and make what edits you think would improve the page.] (]) 19:28, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
:The sandbox version of the exodus article has been moved to ].] (]) 16:03, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
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==African-Americans and Jews==
BusStop: According to worldwide Jewry and the state of Israel, those of mostly African descent are not and cannot be considered as Jews. As much as you may want that to be the truth, if you are African American, or if you are mostly black (as in, your features identify you as Negroid), you cannot possibly be a Jew or a Jewish person as Jew and Jewish person are defined today.{{Dubious|Odd comment|date= 2012}}
{{clear}}

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== Please vote/comment ==
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== Teahouse ==

Hi Bus stop! Thanks for coming by and helping out at the Teahouse recently. Since it's a pilot project, we work a little differently than most help spaces. If you'd like to learn more about what we're about, how you as a valued experienced editor can lend a hand, and how we work a bit differently, then I'd like to invite you to read about us ]. It talks about the methods we use, how to be a host, invitation, saying hello, and the answering process. I do hope you'll consider it, and regardless, thanks for popping in for a cup of tea :) ] (]) 15:19, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

== WP Visual Arts in the ''Signpost'' ==

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Visual Arts for a ''Signpost'' article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, ''']'''. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. -] (]) 02:48, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

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== Does this help? ==

Hi,<br />
I need your feedback about a source. addresses the issue of Adam Yauch's religious adherence pretty '''explicitly'''. It stated, “<font color="blue">''The 27-year-old Jewish-born rapper '''wants to maintain his Jewish traditions''' and calls the conversion spiritual, <u>rather than religious</u>.''</font>”<br />

Does this mean something? <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span></small> 10:47, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
::] says, <font color="blue">"For a dead person, there must be a verified '''consensus of reliable published sources''' that the description is appropriate"</font> is it applicable in that RfC? <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]]</span></small> 11:40, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
== Replaceable fair use File:Leo Castelli seated, Jasper Johns standing.jpg ==
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:It is probably best to upload a more recent image of Johns - per this discussion ...] (]) 20:34, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

== Not conducive to collaborative editing ==

Thank you for the support on this fracas at the Freud page. I did submit this problem to "Editor assistance," but I have not gotten any responses. If I can be of help to restore a bit of neutrality to the Freud lead, I am happy to do it, and I know more than enough about Freud and all the related epistemic issues to be helpful, but I don't have time or energy to fight off an editor like Polisher of Cobwebs. Even if I did, I feel pessimistic that the restoration of balance would remain indefinitely on a page that treats such a divisive topic. The Freud page used to be "good" and is no longer--what would safeguard against it becoming bad again, even if I improve it? Certainly I cannot devote the same level of vigilance to it that Polisher of Cobwebs does. If you have further ideas for how to proceed or want further input from me, let me know, I guess at my Talk page? Will that generate an email alert to me?] (]) 21:38, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

:Hypoplectrus, it is not a good idea to suggest, even by implication, that other editors are insane. If you haven't gotten any responses at Editor assistance, then that's because you're going about things the wrong way - you're expecting other editors to automatically agree with you about quite controversial issues, and it just doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. That you talk about "fighting off" other editors shows that you are approaching disagreements in the wrong spirit, and that's a turn off for all concerned. (And incidentally, the Freud article was already deemed not 'good' when I started working on it). ] (]) 22:25, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

::Disagreement is part and parcel of the activity of collaborative editing. It is how one goes about it that matters. While one should be clear on where one stands, one should attempt to be low key. As I pointed out in my post I find type of post, reading: ''"If you cite Eric Kandel's views in the lead, I will remove them",'' to be unnecessarily provocative. (I changed the section title here on my Talk page. It used to read, "Insanity at the Freud Page.") ] (]) 02:15, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

:::I can understand why you might feel that way, Bus stop, but I wasn't trying to be provocative. Hypoplectrus made clear what material he wanted to add to the lead, and I made it clear that I didn't think that material was suitable for the lead. It might have come across the wrong way, but I was simply trying to be honest and direct. ] (]) 02:45, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

::::Please see ]. ] (]) 04:16, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

:::::It's quite clear to any rational observer which of the two users involved in this disagreement--myself, ] versus ]--has expressed an openness to dialogue and which one has refused to and with remarkable hostility. You can see that on the Freud Talk pages, but you can also see ]'s harassment and intimidation tactics in action right here! ] has not only reverted all my edits to the Freud lead without any willingness to compromise, he follows me to any Talk page I go to and attempts to interfere with my communications with other editors. If ] is so confident that he is in the right regarding his conduct and I, ], is in the wrong, and so confident that the system here at Misplaced Pages will bear that out, then why doesn't he just let the system take its course? Obviously, ] is afraid that without managing the discussion anywhere and everywhere it arises, by what they seem to call here at Misplaced Pages harassment, hounding, uncivility, etc., he will not be able to retain exclusive control over the debate and over the Freud article lead. It seems that he is having great success with this approach (which he will contest in approximately 5 seconds, 4 3 2 1...) and that reflects the vulnerability of Misplaced Pages to abuses at the hands of the abusive. ], I am not at present making edits to the Freud page, because you have made it impossible for me to do so, will you kindly leave me alone?] (]) 14:58, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

::::::], does it make sense at this point to request outside review of ]'s User conduct? You are more experienced editing Misplaced Pages than I am (yes, I know, ], you are more experienced with Misplaced Pages too, if not with common courtesy). Please advise.] (]) 15:03, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

:::::::In my humble opinion continued work on the article and its associated Talk page is the best course of action. That is purely my personal perspective. The downside is that it's a long slog. But in my opinion your best bet at improving the article is to present your case persuasively, including ] of course, on the Talk page, and then to introduce that material which relates to Talk page discussion, to article space. I think the aim is to let other editors know what prospective changes are being contemplated, and then to let other editors see the actual form that you envision that material to assume in the article. This approach involves other editors in an informed way as to the nature of the direction that the article may take. It is all about persuading other editors of the wisdom of the approach that you envision. But yes, it is time consuming. I'm just not a big fan of Misplaced Pages's drama classes. So I tend to avoid trying to prosecute people for conduct issues. I don't like to see one or a few editors maintain control over such an article as the one we are discussing. I find it refreshing to see new input and I don't like to see enthusiastic ideas squelched before they even get off the ground. But these are just personal opinions and you should just take them with a grain of salt. ] (]) 15:30, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

== Credo Reference Update & Survey (your opinion requested) ==

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== ] ==

What I meant is that I'm not sure which of the Tate buildings it is currently held in. ]''']''' 04:28, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

:Yes, I concluded that too late. Sorry to be testy. I also see you initiated and put a lot into that article. Good job. ] (]) 04:39, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

== I replied to you... ==

{{WP:Teahouse/Teahouse_talkback|WP:Teahouse/Questions|ignorance is not bliss|ts=] (]) 00:02, 24 July 2012 (UTC)}} This is how the Talkback Template works. It makes it simple for people to see the answer to their question, doesn't it? ] (]) 00:02, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
:Thank you. Good to know. ] (]) 18:44, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

== SPA ==

You were tagged in rather unkindly as an SPA which I decided was quite unfair and elected to remove. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']'''.''']'''</small> 17:29, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
:Thank you. ] (]) 18:43, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

== ANI ==
Though you will likely see it anyway, please make sure you're aware of . JN is perhaps expecting you to see it via participation in the earlier thread, but I think direct notification is better. ] (]) 17:42, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
:Thanks. ] (]) 19:39, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
:Thanks, Nomo. I was just going to drop a courtesy message here in case Bus stop hadn't seen it. '''<font color="#0000FF">]</font><font color=" #FFBF00">]</font><font color="#0000FF">]</font>''' 10:31, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

At this point, you're just being trolled. You should probably just take it off your watchlist and avoid it for now. They are clearly baiting you into behaving badly and then using it against you. Don't fall for it. ] (]) 09:22, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

:You are probably right. By the way I want to say that I have appreciated your solidarity. That includes the reasoning that we both tried to engage in at the Talk page of the "British Jews" article. And of course I have appreciated your support at the AN/I attempting to prevent me from merely enforcing policy, as I think we both were trying to do at the "British Jews" Talk page recently. ] (]) 09:36, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

==confusing post==

I received a new message notice for this
http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:83d40m&diff=next&oldid=509145608
It is really confusing to me. Seems that two unrelated articles are involved... Do not know what this could have to do with the Sarasota News Leader article, Can you please clarify? _ _ _ _ ] (]) 15:24, 27 August 2012 (UTC)


I don't know what you are referring to regarding the preceding edit, ''Revision as of 21:19, 25 August 2012 (edit)
83d40m (talk | contribs)
(→‎Nomination of Sarasota News Leader for deletion: reply again)
← Previous edit'', regarding a new article afd discussion... _ _ _ _ ] (]) 18:40, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying the note to me.

I am aware that we disagree, I think that was explored in 2011. I rely upon the immediate international coverage of Gary's death to indicate his status as a sculptor and believe it qualifies him for recognition for our readers. He was memorialized by the NYT, Time, ABC-TV, and most other prominent media. The numbers of people who attended exhibitions of his work while he was alive, could exceed some of the sculptors you list readily. His fine art is privately held internationally and never is cast off and sent to auction.

Without a doubt, he is the best example I have seen for the '''use of diverse materials''' in his work, so I have placed him among those being discussed in that vein. I suspect that you focus too closely on his whimsical works for a value judgment that might just be very personal. That is like focusing on Calder's circus and disqualifying him from discussion as a serious sculptor. The subject matter of dinosaurs was followed by Calder when he created a ''Stegosaurus'' after he met Gary and saw his. Chamberlain worked with automobile parts. Picasso often chose animal subjects in his sculpture. Gary's works are a thousand times more complex than Picasso's ''Bull'' head, yet are easily as effective a use of unchanged existing materials to create another image and they are created with the highest of skills. Our readers deserve to see not merely academic judgments, but works identified as notable in their lifetimes by everyday sources. As a fellow editor here, I will persist in placing entries where I see this as fitting and I would hope that you do not take that personally, as I respect your skills even though we do disagree on this point. I would prefer that the entry not be deleted. Am posting this at the sculpture talk page also also. _ _ _ _ ] (]) 21:06, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

== '''The Olive Branch''': A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1) ==

Welcome to the first edition of ''The Olive Branch''. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in ] (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are ], but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to ].
]
In this issue:
* '''Background''': A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
* '''Research''': The most recent DR data
* '''Survey results''': Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
* '''Activity analysis''': Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
* '''DR Noticeboard comparison''': How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
* '''Discussion update''': Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
* '''Proposal''': It's time to close the ]. Agree or disagree?
<big><center>]</center></big>

--''The Olive Branch'' 18:53, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
<!-- EdwardsBot 0345 -->

== Thank you for your contribution @ ] ==

Hi Bus stop! Thanks for coming by and helping out at the ] wiki page. I appreciate your edit and sound comment -- hopefully there will be more in the future. Respectfully --] (]) 05:22, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

==What's your point?==

I'm correcting the article due its Talmudist and Anti-Christian bias. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 05:27, 25 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
==Notice of Dispute resolution discussion==
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at ] regarding a content dispute in which you may have been involved. Content disputes can hold up article development, therefore we request your participation in the discussion to help find a resolution. The thread is "]". Thank you!<!--Template:DRN-notice--> ] <sup>''] / ]''</sup> 18:03, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

==Soft Power really does have something to do with what curators like==

The point could be illustrated with art world infatuation with contemporary Chinese artist ], or the widespread suspicion
that the CIA used ] to promote notions ao US mystique and sophistication. ] (]) 02:00, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

== RE:"Art nude" ==
Now ]; See my comments "What Now?" on my talk page.
] (]) 03:58, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
:I have moved the comments to my main user page as an ''Editor's Statement'', responses are welcome.] (]) 15:15, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


==New jersey question rephrased==
Is there any "safe area" parts of ]? I know that city/township has a high crime rate bu does it have any safe areas like parks, beaches, or neighborhoods or schools? ] (])` <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added 00:50, 7 December 2012 (UTC)</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Vargas ==

Re -- there's currently an RfC at the on this issue. ] (]) 21:23, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

== words ==

This is not directly related, so I'll ask you here... Have you ever participated in the endless move-discussion at ]? ] <sup>]</sup> 19:17, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

:lol yup. ] (]) 19:19, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
::Yeah, see... the reason why that's at "narrative" is (we're told) because most people understand "myth" as ''lie'', or at least ''false''. Academically and by the dictionary, that's of course nonsense, but most people understand it that way. In the same way, most people understand "American" to mean citizen of the United States. ] <sup>]</sup> 19:23, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

::: is primarily concerning the term "Filipino-American" and only secondarily concerning the term "American". ] (]) 19:46, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
::::The same point holds true. Most people will understand citizen of the United States. ] <sup>]</sup> 20:11, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

== Don't beat a dead horse ==

Hello. There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. ] (]) 04:04, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

==Notice of Dispute resolution discussion==
]
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at ] regarding a content dispute in which you may have been involved. Content disputes can hold up article development, therefore we are requesting your participation to help find a resolution.
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{{collapse top|bg=#cae1ff|bg2=#f0f8ff|Guide for participants}}

If you wish to open a DR/N filing, click the '''''"Request dispute resolution"''''' button below this guide or go to ] for an easy to follow, step by step request form.

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Please take a moment to review the simple guide and join the discussion. Thank you!<!--Template:DRN-notice-->

== Formal mediation has been requested ==
{{Ivmbox
| <!---MedComBot-Do-not-remove-this-line-Notified-Jose Antonio Vargas--->The ] has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Jose Antonio Vargas". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. ] is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the ], the ], and the ], '''please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate.''' Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 10 April 2013.

Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.<br>
<small>Message delivered by ] (]) on ] of the Mediation Committee. 00:40, 3 April 2013 (UTC)</small>
}}

== Request for mediation rejected ==
{{Ivmbox
| The ] concerning Jose Antonio Vargas, to which you were listed as a party, has been ]. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the ], which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the ] of the Committee, or to the ]. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see ].

For the Mediation Committee, ] (]) 19:10, 21 April 2013 (UTC)<br>
<small>(Delivered by ], ] the Mediation Committee.)</small>
}}

== Thank you... ==

...for watching out for me. :) ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 12:20, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

:Nary a problem... ] (]) 14:19, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

==Need your opinion on a BLP matter==
Hi. Can you offer your thoughts in ? Thanks. ] (]) 15:12, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

== Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Whaam!/archive1 ==

Since you were a participant at ] and ], I am informing you that ] is now open.--] <small>(]/]/]/]/]) </small> 21:14, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
:You seem to be wearing out everyone at ]. I don't know how to get your support, but am willing to listen to a brief summary of things that need to be added or deleted from the article.--] <small>(]/]/]/]/])</small> 05:25, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
::TonyTheTiger—you can feel free to weigh in at the link that you provide above or more specifically at ] (]) 13:46, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

== Gateways ==

Thanks for the heads-up. ''']''' <sup>(] | ])</sup> 21:17, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

== ] ==

] is now three weeks old and has now had over 250KB of discourse. I don't think I have ever been involved in an FAC like this. As I stated at the beginning of this FAC, '']'' will experience the 50th anniversary of its first exhibition on September 28 that I hope can be celebrated at ]. Before that, however, we must make a decision on the quality of this article here at ]. Please consider making a '''Support''' or '''Oppose''' decision some time soon.--] <small>(]/]/]/]/])</small> 00:15, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

== Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Whaam!/archive2 ==

Since you were active at FAC1, I am notifying you of ].--] <small>(]/]/]/]/])</small> 17:54, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
::Thank you. ] (]) 10:58, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

== Whaam! edits ==

Please stop editing ''Whaam!'' without consensus. I don't want this ] to fail due to it not being stable.--] <small>(] / ] / ] / ] / ])</small> 13:57, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

== ] nomination of ] ==

Given your active participation that resulted in the recent ] promotion of '']'', I am informing you of a discussion that you may want to take part in at ].--] <small>(] / ] / ] / ] / ])</small> 08:09, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

== Barnstar ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" valign="top" | ]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size:x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Content Review Medal of Merit'''&nbsp;&nbsp;
|-
|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Thank you for your attention to the '']'' ] discussion. Although we mostly disagreed, all opinions are necessary for a great FAC.] <small>(] / ] / ] / ] / ])</small> 23:30, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
|}

:That's big of you, or bigamy. We are both magnanimous. ] (]) 23:34, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

== Is being Jewish an ethnicity ==

So if you think being Jewish is just a religion, then why would we categorize actors by it at all.] (]) 17:50, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

== Re NFCC #1 ==

It may not seem like the same statement, but try and run some test cases and see if you can find a case where it doesn't hold true nonetheless. When it comes to NFCC #1, it is very difficult to prove that a non-free equivalent could be created unless the article subject is about the subject of the picture. In this case of Pakistani people, this is definitely true. There are free equivalents of Pakistani people available or they can certainly be created. The wording might not match, but 95% (number out of my butt) of cases it holds true.--v/r - ]] 00:02, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
:The wording you chose may be wording that should be found in policy. I'm objecting to statements that sound like they are extracts from policy when they are not. ] (]) 12:13, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
::In practice, that's how it works. Run some test cases, set up some scenarios, and you'll see what I'm talking about.--v/r - ]] 12:40, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
:::But the person complaining that their image was improperly removed should first be shown actual language in policy. The rewording of policy that you are presenting may be correct. But it should not be presented as if it was the actual language in policy. ] (]) 13:08, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
::::I disagree with you there. Explaining how the policy generally applies instead of using the confusing legal jargon and ambiguity is more often helpful. This particular user didn't ] of the user informing them and that's where the failure lies. That's a sign of a COI, honestly. When one person's personal goals override the goals of Misplaced Pages, they are in conflict with their interests and Misplaced Pages's interests. What we may need instead is an essay that explains what each of the general applications are for each criteria.--v/r - ]] 14:08, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

== Books and Bytes: The Misplaced Pages Library Newsletter ==

<div style="border: 2px dashed #ADC2E4; margin: 1px; padding: 1em 2% 1em">
<center><big><big><big>''''']'''''</big>
<p>Volume 1, Issue 1, October 2013
<p>]
<p>by {{user|The Interior}}, {{user|Ocaasi}}</center>
<big>'''Greetings ] members!'''</big> Welcome to the inaugural edition of ''Books and Bytes'', TWL’s monthly newsletter. We're sending you the first edition of this opt-in newsletter, because you signed up, or applied for a free research account: HighBeam, Credo, Questia, JSTOR, or Cochrane. To receive future updates of ''Books and Bytes'', please add your name to ]. There's lots of news this month for the Misplaced Pages Library, including new accounts, upcoming events, and new ways to get involved...
<p>'''New positions:''' Sign up to be a Misplaced Pages Visiting Scholar, or a Volunteer Misplaced Pages Librarian
<p>'''Misplaced Pages Loves Libraries:''' Off to a roaring start this fall in the United States: 29 events are planned or have been hosted.
<p>'''New subscription donations:''' Cochrane round 2; HighBeam round 8; Questia round 4... Can we partner with NY Times and Lexis-Nexis??
<p>'''New ideas:''' OCLC innovations in the works; VisualEditor Reference Dialog Workshop; a photo contest idea emerges
<p>'''News from the library world:''' Wikipedian joins the National Archives full time; the Getty Museum releases 4,500 images; CERN goes CC-BY
<p>'''Announcing WikiProject Open:''' WikiProject Open kicked off in October, with several brainstorming and co-working sessions
<p>'''New ways to get involved:''' Visiting scholar requirements; subject guides; room for library expansion and exploration<br>
<p><big>]</big><br><br>
''Thanks for reading! All future newsletters will be '''opt-in''' only. Have an item for the next issue? Leave a note for the editor on the ]. --] 20:15, 27 October 2013 (UTC)''
</div>
<!-- EdwardsBot 0651 -->

== RfC request re:] article ==


Hi Bus stop. Requesting clarification from you on your preference as to the wording of the contested line in this article. . Want to ensure we're not misrepresenting your viewpoint. Thank you. --] (]) 20:55, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

== Sellers ==
Could you please move (or copy) your suggested replacement text out of the now-hatted section and into the main part of the "Survey" section? All other suggestions were started and discussed there, so it is right yours should be too, rather than being in the "summary" section. I have hatted the summary section because it is a misguided, misleading and biased section that should not have been started by an involved editor. Your suggestion deserves examination away from such a biased and one-sided interpretation. - ] (]) 09:24, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

== Your opinion is welcomed! ==
As I've seen you participate in discussion at ] in the past, please weigh in at ]. Thank you! <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">] ]</font></sup> 19:07, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

== I will appreciate it if you comment concerning my remarks in the Arab Israeli 1948 war talk page. ==

Hi

I will appreciate it if you comment concerning my remarks in the .

I am an Israeli, but try to be objective. I am the only Israeli regular editor in these articles, and the other editors reactions are mostly negative , as expected. It is much better to hear your opinion as well. If you are not too busy, will it be possible for you to comment in the talk page.

thanks ] (]) 19:06, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

== November 2013 FA Thanks ==

{{User Featured articles|Whaam!}} Thank you for your editorial contributions to ], which recently was promoted to ].--] <small>(] / ] / ] / ] / ])</small> 20:04, 26 November 2013 (UTC)


==Feedback==

Hi Bus stop; Please add your input here: , thanks...] (]) 12:40, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

== The Misplaced Pages Library Survey ==

As a subscriber to one of ]'s programs, we'd like to hear your thoughts about future donations and project activities in this Thanks and cheers, ]<sup> ]&#124;]</sup> 14:57, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
<!-- EdwardsBot 0678 -->

== Thanks ==

Dear Bus stop, thanks for helping to tidy up my recent edits at the Purim article . I was tired and it was late and I honestly missed them, so I appreciate your good work. Thanks again, ] (]) 01:04, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
==Happy Holidays==
...] (]) 03:16, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

== A Tesla Roadster for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''A Tesla Roadster for you!'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thank you for contributing to Misplaced Pages! ] (]) 16:12, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
|}

==Hi==
Bus Stop, as I read current Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines, a person can be described as a Jew based on religious belief, or instead based on ethnicity, or both. If Misplaced Pages's description of a person as a Jew is based on religious belief, then Misplaced Pages requires evidence of self-identification. We cannot say that a person's religion is Jewish unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief. However, evidence of self-identification is not required to say that a person's ethnicity is Jewish (i.e. ethnicity is different from religion or sexual orientation).

Do you disagree with any of that? Thanks.] (]) 01:03, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

:Policy does not directly address the differences between religions. Are all religions the same? Obviously not. Do all religions have the same form with the only variation seen in their specific components? The net effect of policy in the area that we are discussing is a "leveling effect". If you encounter a cosmologist, what type of conversation would you have with him? Would you say "all that I know about cosmology is ''twinkle twinkle little star''"? Of course not. You would try to muster up information of substance, even if it meant doing research. Let us put aside "sexual orientation" for a moment. Do you realize how ludicrous it is, for the purpose of policy, to not only lump together "religion" with "sexual orientation", but also to lump together all religions? This is one-size-fits-all policy. It can be improved. But it is apparently an uphill battle. ] (]) 01:50, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
::My comment above did not address what the policies and guidelines at Misplaced Pages ''should be''. Instead, my comment above addressed what the policies and guidelines ''currently are''. All I'm asking is whether you agree about what the policies currently are. If you're not able to recognize what current policy is, and are unwilling to follow it even while you try to improve it, then, well....it's understandable why other editors might want to keep you from editing.] (]) 01:55, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
:::Where does policy distinguish between a Jew based on religious belief and a Jew based on ethnicity? Can you please cut and paste that area of policy to me? ] (]) 02:10, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
{{od}} Sure. The guideline says: {{cquote|Ethnic groups may be used as categorizations....For example, we do have ]....Categories regarding religious beliefs of a living person should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief in question (see WP:BLPCAT), either through direct speech or through actions like serving in an official clerical position for the religion.}}] (]) 02:19, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Bus stop, your responses at ANI are ''not helping''. Perhaps you should stay away from there for a bit? ] (]) 10:31, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

:::Viriditas—OK. And thanks for your help, and kind words. Thanks. ] (]) 10:34, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Why the self-revert at ANI?] (]) 21:15, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
:I don't want to seem too mean-spirited. It is old—from 2012. ] (]) 21:19, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
::That was probably wise for you to do. But, since it reflects an old but ongoing pattern, I feel it was appropriate for me to mention it (twice so far) at ANI. Thanks for the diff.] (]) 21:23, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
:::Take care, Bus stop. You did a classy thing at ANI. I hope the foreseeable future doesn't last too long, and that you will enjoy then having a clean slate. Cheers.] (]) 01:03, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

==Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Jews_and_Communism_(2nd_nomination)==
] You are invited to join the discussion at ]. Thanks. ] (]) 21:35, 9 May 2014 (UTC){{z48}}<!--Template:Please see-->

==Move review for Anti-Semitism:Requested move==

Hi, I have asked for a move review, see ], pertaining to ]. Because you were/are involved in the discussion/s for this page, or otherwise were interested in the page/topic, you might want to participate in the move review. Thank you, ] (]) 08:52, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

==ANB discussion==
There is a discussion at ] that concerns you because you were recently involved with one or more of the related ], ] (]), ]. Thank you, ] (]) 07:50, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
== September 2014 ==

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== Nomination of ] for deletion ==
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article ''']''' is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to ] or whether it should be ].

The article will be discussed at ] until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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==Something beautiful for the holidays==
*
*...] (]) 00:44, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

== Global account ==

Hi Bus stop! As a ] I'm involved in the upcoming ] of all accounts organized by the Wikimedia Foundation (see ]). By looking at ], I realized that you don't have a global account yet. In order to secure your name, I recommend you to create such account on your own by submitting your password on ] and unifying your local accounts. If you have any problems with doing that or further questions, please don't hesitate to ] with <nowiki>{{ping|DerHexer}}</nowiki>. Cheers, —]&nbsp;<small>]</small> 17:15, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Special Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Years of good work by you have more than justified the faith showed in you in the distant past. You're a valued contributor. Well done. ] (]) 13:37, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
|}
::Thank you so much. My barn needed that. The chickens have been complaining that they feel like they are living in a barn. ] (]) 13:48, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
:::Sadly, I'm all out of henhouses. --] (]) 13:59, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
::::Somebody ought to design a henhouse-star, for use in minor situations in which the full barn-star is uncalled for. ] (]) 11:58, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Thanks for the support at ], as you will see from my last posting I see no point in continuing the conversation at this time, because there is no change of changing the text at the moment. -- ] (]) 12:45, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
:You're welcome. Thank you for initiating that discussion. ] (]) 16:55, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for April 8==

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited ], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ] (&nbsp;|&nbsp;). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the ]{{*}} Join us at the ].</small>

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 08:57, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

== Bob Dylan ==

Hi Bus stop, I noticed the point you added and then removed on the Dylan Talk page , and I have some sympathy with the issue you raised. I also though the removal of ], ], and ], with the edit summary "Dylan converted to Christianity" was odd. If you wish to make this point again, I would support you. Best wishes, ] (]) 18:27, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, I was just thinking of re-wording that post. I also don't relish the slugfest that could follow. It seems just self-evident that the Jewish/Christian thing is best accommodated by including both for Categorization purposes. But this issue is project-wide and I doubt anything I am going to say is going to sway a consensus of editors. ] (]) 22:29, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
::I agree, Jewish-Christian thing is best accommodated by including both for Categorization purposes. I think majority of BD editors would support this position. ] (]) 00:15, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
:::I've posted ] on Talk page. ] (]) 14:58, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

==Antisemism in Ukraine==
ONe has to be careful with CFCA articles. The give URLs from which they took content, but these are often Russian , and unreliable in the extreme.--] (]) 21:03, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
==Long overdue==
{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Tireless Contributor Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For all of your work on the visual arts; and elsewhere...] (]) 00:27, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
|}
:Thank you very much. I appreciate it. ] (]) 02:04, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

== Thank You Bus stop. ==

Thank you, you were correct in what you wrote, and I was wrong in what I did. In his postings, Modernist has been calling me all sorts of names, and will not enter into a serious discussion about some aspects of the WIKIPEDIA Article on Abstract Expressionism. He asked me to do some reading, and when I did, he will not discuss some of the results of the research I accomplished. In a way, he acts as if he owns the Article. An example I can offer concerns this issue about which you chided me: In the Article there is a list of "Other artists" which is introduced with: "Significant artists whose mature work relates to the American Abstract Expressionist movement:" Note, it does not say they have to be American, only that their work relates to the AAE movement. Therefore Modernist is clearly incorrect in rejecting ] inserting ] into the “Other” list giving the reason “not an American abstract expressionist” when there are other non-Americans on that list, such as ], ], ], ], ], ] and ]. It does not take but a minute to read the article on ] to understand why he is much like the other non-Americans in qualifying to be on that list. Thank you for listening to my wanting not to be rude, but Modernist seems to have brought out the devil in me. Please look the list and at the articles yourself, and tell me who is correct? ] (]) 19:45, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
:Dear BusStop, please can you direct me to any "Fine Arts (Painting)" Editors, with whom I might be able to have an intelligent dialog regarding Abstract Expressionists (and not Modernist who only wants to call me names)? I need an objective Editor, who will be willing to enter into a constructive discussion. Thank you for suggesting someone. ] (]) 22:50, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

== Thank you Bus Stop ==
I don't know your opinion on the article but a lot of people on here wouldn't have even pointed that out when it was an obvious mistake.
I enjoyed looking at your artwork.
Thank you for sharing them with everyone here.
] (]) 14:08, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

== Mattress affair ==

I'm notifying you of sanctions related to ''Mattress Performance'' and Emma Sulkowicz. I do not believe you are responsible for any misconduct, but your differences in opinion with other editors have made progress difficult. I recognize we simply have a fundamental disagreement about the interpretation of policy and I do not mean to imply any tendentiousness on your part.
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--] (]) 17:35, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Bustop. I originally saw them unrelated as well. But there's at least one reliable source that explicitly links them. I think there's enough to position them as related. Pick your battles (as they say).] (]) 16:08, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

== RfC: Religion in infoboxes of nations ==

There is an ] that you may be interested in at ]. Please join us and help us to determine consensus on this issue. --] (]) 13:40, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

== Adam Nagourney ==
<ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/Adam_Nagourney</ref>re removal of quote "fair game for a news story" being out of context. It's in the same paragraph and verbatim so I fail to see how it is out of context. Sorry I'm a newbee and may have ref or sined incorrectly ] (]) 11:16, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}
== Mattress talk ==

Bus stop, could you please quit. Two, now three editors disagree with you. Move on or I will bring sanctions against you for wasting everyone's time.--] (]) 17:01, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
: You didn't take my noticing of your ignoring of Wiki rules very seriously so I'm going ahead. thanks--] (]) 21:32, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
==License tagging for File:"Bull's Head", 1942 sculpture by Pablo Picasso, considered an example of "found object" artwork, constructed of a seat and the handlebars from a bicycle.jpg==
Thanks for uploading ]. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Misplaced Pages uses a set of ] to indicate this information.

To add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from ], click on ], then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Misplaced Pages. For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on ]. Thank you for your cooperation.<!-- User:OrphanBot/untagged-new --> --] (]) 19:05, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

== Another Tensing vid ==

I can't put this in article talk per NOTFORUM, but I find amazing. If you can find 17 free minutes, watch this and tell me if this isn't a remarkable video. By about 14:00, two guys from the hood have Tensing and his supervisor completely gabberflasted, and Tensing just stands there looking like a deer in the headlights. Am I crazy? &#8213;]&nbsp;] 19:14, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
:Hi {{ping|Mandruss}} when is this video from? ] (]) 20:37, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

::I don't know any more than what is on that page. I just ran across that by accident as I was looking at our bodycam vids. It can't be too old, since he appears to be in UCPD uniform and he worked for UCPD for only a few years (our article doesn't say, exactly). &#8213;]&nbsp;] 20:42, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

:::Hi {{ping|Mandruss}} indicates a little more about it. ] (]) 20:51, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

::::Yeah. She says "last May", so I guess that means 2-3 months ago. But it's like this. A cop is either in the right or in the wrong, either supported by the law and department policy or not, and any competent cop should know which. If you're in the wrong, you smile and admit your mistake, back up and regroup. If you're in the right, you don't stand there and allow two people to talk you to death; you tell them to take it up with the judge. If you give them a lawful command and they fail to comply, you arrest them. If they resist arrest, you use physical force. If they endanger your life, you shoot them. Neither cop had control of this situation, which is precisely what they're trained to do. I've had my share of contact with cops (some would say more than my share), and I've never seen cops behave like that. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 21:08, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

:::::Hi {{ping|Mandruss}} they're just human beings. They phase in and out of being competent. It's the deadly force part that is obviously critical. In the case of Tensing one can only wonder if oneself is capable of such an error. I'm sure if he had 60 seconds to think about what he was about to do, he wouldn't do it. But given two seconds or maybe one second, it becomes more likely that one can make the utterly wrong decision. ] (]) 13:55, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

::::::Yeah. I don't presume to judge Tensing, or Slager, or Wilson, since I could never be a cop in the first place. I also don't feel the need to choose one side over the other on these things; I have no difficulty feeling compassion for both, which is what places me center-left, I think; I get the sense you're the same in that way. &#8213;]&nbsp;] 14:08, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

== Paglia ==

I understand that you have strong feelings about the discussion of Camille Paglia, but it honestly it beyond the point of ] in my opinion. Can you please consider dialing it down a bit, or at least limiting threaded discussion to the discussion section and leaving the !votes alone? ] ] <small>Please &#123;&#123;]&#125;&#125;</small> 00:50, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
:Hi ]—actually I don't have "strong feelings" about this. My position is that we let the pieces fall where they may. A variety of well-known and qualified people weigh in with commentary on a work of contemporary art. I would not argue that anything be suppressed. But others are basically saying that certain things said by Paglia should not simply be allowed to stand as is, yet when commentators lavish praise on the piece, that goes unchallenged. ] (]) 02:19, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

What you're doing in these edits (, ) seems a lot like ]. The questions you're asking have been answered, ''ad nauseum''. I understand that you don't agree with what's being said, but its not adding anything to continually repeat yourself, especially when we're discussing a potential compromise. ] (]) 02:48, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
:Hi ]—you say that I . Can you be more specific? ] (]) 03:33, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
::Do I really need to explain that? I provided you with links to the differences, I don't think I can be any more specific than that. If you're still unclear on the problem, I urge you to check out the previously cited entries on ] and ]. If this continues, I think the next step is to request administrative help. ] (]) 20:09, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

== Responses on Mattress Performance RfC ==

Several or your responses, particularly of , seem to suggest you either aren't bothering to read what I'm suggesting or at least aren't attempting to make relevant points. Please try to read more closely, and stick to the topic when responding. If possible, it would be really helpful if you would stick to arguments that had some basis in existing Misplaced Pages policies or guidelines, rather than objecting solely based on personal preferences. ] (]) 15:07, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
:Hi ]—Roberta Smith, Jerry Saltz, Marina Abramović, artnet, and Camille Paglia are not in "heated dispute" with one another. They are not even in dialogue with one another. The ] section merely contains responses from notable people. I did not concoct this layout. But we use quotations in the cases of praise of the work. Why would Paglia's scathing criticism not be treated just as the praise is treated in our article? ] (]) 20:20, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
:: You're still not reading me: an alternate version that uses a direct quote rather than a paraphrase. This is now the third time i've pointed this out to you (see ,)

::This may be an honest mistake on your part, but, whatever the intent, continually disregarding what is being said in the conversation is disruptive. See: ]. ] (]) 21:40, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

:::OK, I stand corrected. Now please use the to articulate your argument. ] (]) 22:49, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

== Changed your mind? ==

What's up with ? --] (]) 23:00, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

==Paul Signac==
Hi Bus Stop. I saw your comment on the Signac talk page today about my reverting to the Modern/Old count style. It appears you misunderstood why I did that. I was not at all making a judgment, as you thought, because I was not the one who created those count words. Those words were put there by another editor ''weeks'' before my arrival. I personally didn't care what words were used; I simply reverted to them because it would have created a lot of confusion since 15+ editors had already "voted", and all of them used either "Modern" or "Old" to cast their "ballot", ''not'' packed or non-packed. So those 2 words in the count would not have matched the words used in the "vote" by all the editors. So it was inappropriate for an editior to unilaterally change those terms long after the voting had commenced. By the way, I suspect that whomever decided on Modern and Old were simply referring to time e.g. which was the new layout and which was the layout that had been used for years. ] (]) 04:44, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

== Courts of Indicature and Judicature ==

Thanks for your deep researching of this. Although in this instance I tend to agree with the other help desk editors, I think it is still possible that this was a word used somewhere in English at some time. It sure sounds like a Latin-derived English word. However, what I think you most likely found is the first case that I can ever remember of a pre-OCR era error that matches OCR errors in the present. That is, some soul made exactly the same mistake almost exactly a century ago that modern machines are still making, and probably a lot more often than humans ever did. I think it's amazing. ] (]) 15:59, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

::Hi {{u|Hamamelis}}—in a source such as I find that "indicature" may make more sense than "judicature".


]
::''"Now, in this disease, if regard be had to the humours, and the indication occasioning them, it should seem at first view that the curative indicature should principally tend 1. to evacuate humours already generated, and 2. to strengthen the concoction, or digestive powers, so as to prevent the accumulation of other humours…"''


]
::Perhaps there is (or was) a legitimate use for "indicature" in some instances. ] (]) 17:56, 9 September 2015 (UTC)


]}}
:::Well, you've found it! I've tried to find this word in old dictionaries at google books, but have yet to find success. But I basically think that anything said, that has a meaning that people mutually agree upon, is a "real" word. That's why they get coined. The author in your example may have been coining "indicature", which, if one follows the use of "indication" as it's (see sense 1, b), and add the suffix "-ature" (the act, process, state, or system of...), one could understand that he, perhaps, meant a system of determining what is advisable in order to deal with ... humours. What do you think? ] (]) 22:03, 9 September 2015 (UTC)


Please don't mess up my recently archived Talk page by posting anything that fails to meet my standards, which will be explained at a later time.
== Deletion of question on Humanities ref desk ==


==Indefinite block==
I believe you were correct to delete that question. (In any case, that was what I was advised to do in a similar case a few weeks ago). I've re-deleted it. ] (]) 10:00, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Since you seem to be unwilling or unable to cease from badgering one respondent after another in your own siteban discussion (bludgeoning ''par excellence''), I have blocked you indefinitely. Note that this is not the ]. It needs to run for at least 3 days before it can reach a formal conclusion. ] 03:04, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
:...and it's back. I'll bring it up on the talk page. ] (]) 10:02, 17 September 2015 (UTC)


:{{u|El C}}—] ] (]) 03:14, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
== Discretionary Sanctions Alert ==


::You are not him and have not earned anything remotely resembling such praise. Any further provocations will see your talk page access revoked. ] 03:17, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
{{Ivm|2=''This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Misplaced Pages. It does '''not''' imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.''


:::Do what you need to do, {{u|El C}}. You are an administrator. ] (]) 03:23, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
'''Please carefully read this information:'''


::::Bus stop, no frivolous pings, either, please. ] 03:24, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
The Arbitration Committee has authorised ] to be used for pages regarding all edits about, and all pages related to post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is ].


:::::Don't say {{tq|"please"}} if you don't mean it, {{u|El C}}. I don't reason with someone who holds a threat over my head. ] (]) 03:36, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means ] administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the ], our ], or relevant ]. Administrators may impose sanctions such as ], ], or ]. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.
}}{{Z33}}<!-- Derived from Template:Ds/alert --> --] (]) 15:28, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


::::::Bus stop, pardon the pun, but I will say ''please'' as I please. Talk page access revoked. ] 03:39, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
== Guy Macon's posts at the Bernie Sanders page ==


== Twassman—sorry I couldn't continue right there, but my account was blocked ==
Relax! You are misunderstanding what Guy Macon is saying. He doesn't argue that Sanders has no religion, and he doesn't suggest removing the Religion parameter from the infobox. He is simply saying that "Religion: none" or "Religion: secular Jew" are not acceptable. You are being hypersensitive. Say you are sorry, you misunderstood, and give it a rest.


{{u|Twassman}}—I was open to several possible wordings such as, Einstein was Jewish, Einstein was a nonobservant Jew, Einstein was a secular Jew—it did not matter. The only acceptable language to my fellow editors was ''born into a Jewish family.'' ] (]) 03:21, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
I know that this has been a trying discussion, that in general has been in very bad taste (I don't want to say it smacks of antisemitism, but there is that concern), but Guy Macon is certainly not a party to those who have questioned Sanders's Jewishness. He is not one of the bad guys. --] (]) 17:02, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


== Your email ==
:Hi {{u|Ravpapa}}—as you said, It is also what the sources say. ] (]) 00:24, 20 October 2015 (UTC)


Please do not contact me by email again. I have ''zero'' interest in communicating with or debating with you off-Misplaced Pages. ] ] 04:54, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
::Bernie has stated that he's "Jewish," but "not particularly religious". That puts him in the same category as me, a nonreligious Jew. He's ethically Jewish, but he's not practicing. There's a specific term for that. {{Reply|Ravpapa}} it's not "anti-Semitism". Where would you even get that? If someone says, "I'm Baptist", and they're from Georgia, and they go to a Southern Baptist church, is it "anti-Christian" to accurately label them "Southern Baptist"? (The correct answer is: No.) Bernie, like me, is a non-religious Jew. I wasn't being "anti-Semetic" to change it to "Nonreligious Judaism", that's silly. Am I anti-Semetic against myself? ] 02:11, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
:Let it be noted to anyone who watches this page that Bus stop ignored my request to not contact me again by email, and sent another unwanted email. You are shameless, Bus stop, and I am forced to block emails from you. ] ] 05:47, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
::I've removed Bus stop's ability to use the "Email this user" facility. ] (]) 12:25, 18 February 2021 (UTC)


== You are banned from Misplaced Pages ==
:::{{u|Knowledgebattle}}—use the Talk page at the ] article. You have edited the religion parameter of the Infobox at the Bernie Sanders article and yet you have not participated in the discussion about that subject at that article's Talk page. Please post your thoughts at that article's Talk page. This is a collaborative project. I am asking you to engage in the discussion of this topic that is already underway at the ]. ] (]) 09:51, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


At , the community decided to make you subject to a site ban. See ]. You are therefore forbidden to contribute to Misplaced Pages under any account or IP address. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 09:43, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
== November 2015 ==
] Hello, I'm ]. I noticed that you made a comment on the page ] that didn't seem very ], so it has been removed. Misplaced Pages is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on ].
''Warning is in regard to . -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 23:32, 8 November 2015 (UTC)'' <!-- Template:uw-npa1 --> -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">]</span> ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">] ]</span> 23:32, 8 November 2015 (UTC)


:A ban appeal was at WP:AN. ''']] (])''' 14:55, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
== ] ==


:You were a good editor, this parting part partially aside, best of luck in your future endeavours! ] (]) 05:54, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
{{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/MassMessage}} ] (]) 16:18, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
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:This is most distressing. I hope you'll be able to come back after an obligatory wait time. ←] <sup>'']''</sup> ]→ 22:17, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
== Season's greetings! ==


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:This is wrong on so many levels it went back to feeling strangely fine again. 05:55, 20 March 2021 (UTC)


== unblock request ==
''Spread the cheer by adding {{tls|Xmas6}} to their talk page with a friendly message.''
{{unblock reviewed | 1=From a sourcing point of view there can be no doubt that Einstein was Jewish. But it was determined, based on such policies as WP:ONUS and WP:CONSENSUS, that the Albert Einstein article should not pointedly state "Einstein was Jewish". The other editors preferred the language "was born into a Jewish family". WP:ONUS tells us: "While information must be verifiable to be included in an article, not all verifiable information needs to be included in an article...consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article, and that it should be omitted". This information was clearly verifiable but consensus determined that its inclusion would not improve the article. I WP:BLUDGEONED at https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Albert_Einstein/Archive_19#Einstein_and_Jewishness. I should not have argued against a longstanding WP:CONSENSUS which did not want to pointedly state that Einstein was Jewish. The other editors weighing in to that discussion disagreed with the edit I was suggesting and I should have respected their opinion when it became obvious that consensus was against me. While I cannot undo the past I can vow never to do that again. I bludgeoned (WP:BLUDGEONED) the article Talk page and I offer this sincere commitment to not be overly argumentative at article Talk pages again. I am asking that my account be un-blocked so that I may continue to constructively edit Misplaced Pages. This was requested at https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive330#Ban_removal_request_of_Bus_stop but my request was denied with the expectation that I wait 6 months before requesting again. Hence this appeal now. Thank you. | decline=This is a community ban and as such an unblock request will need to be discussed at AN. I will copy this unblock request to there. ] 20:16, 11 September 2021 (UTC)}}
</div></div>


What topics do you want to edit? ] (]) 18:31, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
:oh crap sorry thought this was an article.
:The record shows he's bludgeoned numerous discussions on topics far and wide in which the word "Jewish" comes up. I don't see anything in the request that indicates he understands or would be able to modify this behavior.]] 19:00, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
::Then how about an unblock with an indefinite "Jewish" topic ban? Then after a year or two the topic ban could perhaps also be revisited, contingent upon edit history. He appears to need a set of training wheels, but it's been six months so he should be given his bicycle back. - ] (]) 20:08, 11 September 2021 (UTC)


== unblock request, yet again ==
] (]) 23:30, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
{{unblock reviewed |1=From a sourcing point of view there can be no doubt that Einstein was Jewish. But it was determined, based on such policies as WP:ONUS and WP:CONSENSUS, that the Albert Einstein article should not pointedly state "Einstein was Jewish". The other editors preferred the language "was born into a Jewish family". WP:ONUS tells us: "While information must be verifiable to be included in an article, not all verifiable information needs to be included in an article...consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article, and that it should be omitted". This information was clearly verifiable but consensus determined that its inclusion would not improve the article. I WP:BLUDGEONED at: '''https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Albert_Einstein/Archive_19#Einstein_and_Jewishness''' I should not have argued against a longstanding WP:CONSENSUS which did not want to pointedly state that Einstein was Jewish. The other editors weighing in to that discussion disagreed with the edit I was suggesting and I should have respected their opinion when it became obvious that consensus was against me. While I cannot undo the past I can vow never to do that again. I bludgeoned (WP:BLUDGEONED) the article Talk page and I offer this sincere commitment to not be overly argumentative at article Talk pages again. I am asking that my account be un-blocked so that I may continue to constructively edit Misplaced Pages. It should be very obvious that some people (editors) are very sensitive about Jewishness. I understand that and appreciate the need for caution in the assertion that the subject of an article is Jewish. This subject has been discussed truly ad infinitum at this project. As a non-editor, for over a year now, I have come across numerous discussions, often heated, as to whether a subject can be identified as Jewish or not. These would include current as well as older discussions. I think my above unblock request touches on some of the factors involved in these decision-making processes. I'm not sure what more I can say. I thank the community for their consideration. User:Bus stop |decline = ]. You are free to make another request, even using the same wording if you wish (though I don't advise it); maybe another admin will view your request more favourably. But, I simply don't see a path forward here. ] (]) 15:46, 25 January 2022 (UTC)}}


{{ping|Yamla}} are you aware that you are not giving ''any'' reason for your "decline"? This is an encyclopedia, and we are ''not'' required to speak in acronyms. We speak for clarity. Why are you referring to ]? Please expend the energy to express yourself in your own words with clarity. In the absence of ''any'' reason for a "decline" your reference to ] merely constitutes obfuscation. You can do better than that. Please engage in genuine dialogue. Thank you. ] (]) 16:09, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
::guess i'll take a break then i'm getting a little jumpy
:I don't believe, to quote ], there's a "snowball's chance in hell" that the community would lift your ban. Indeed, I believe if I copied this request across, I may be sanctioned by the community for deliberately wasting their time. I'm not interested in engaging in dialogue with you, so this will be my last response (and, while your ping here was entirely appropriate, please don't ping me again). Again, I note you are free to make the exact same request again (though I advise against it) or you are free to make a different request. In either case, another admin will consider taking your appeal to the community. Please understand, I don't harbour a grudge against you and I sincerely wish you well with your future request, I just don't think this even remotely approaches anything that would lead to your ban being lifted. --] (]) 16:18, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
::So Yamla, you are weighing in to tell me that there is no path forward here? That is what you are saying: "I simply don't see a path forward here". If you are going to say something, why not say something constructive? I say this with respect for you as an administrator and for the good that Misplaced Pages does. Misplaced Pages is unavoidable. I reference Misplaced Pages virtually daily. It is funny that someone (myself) who is cognizant of the importance of Misplaced Pages is blocked from participation at Misplaced Pages over my participation at a simple discussion called . That could have been an edifying discussion. Instead it is leading to my permanent block from participation at Misplaced Pages. "Edifying" in the sense that I brought many good quality ] to bear on the subject under discussion. ] (]) 16:50, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
:::Bus stop, I'll comment, although I'm not sure it will actually be helpful. Quite honestly to me it looks like the only possibility for you getting editing privileges back would be to suggest a very strict set of editing restrictions for yourself, and I suspect you need a lot longer time off than this. Anything in less than a year is likely to actually hurt you. I'd actually suggest maybe waiting two, and again suggesting editing restrictions that address all of the issues. Off the top of my head I'd suggest a self-imposed tban from Jewishness and a limit of one response per discussion. (Also, w/re pinging: you no longer need to ping anyone except the first time you mention them in a section. People can now subscribe to any section they want notifications for. I don't mind pings, but anyone else you should probably assume that if they wanted notification, they'd have subscribed.) ] (]) 17:08, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


::::{{tq|"I'll comment, although I'm not sure it will actually be helpful"}}. You know that it will be unhelpful because you know it is disproportionate to what transpired. is what transpired. ] (]) 23:06, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
merry christmas
:::::But this response is a perfect example of why you’re currently banned, Bus stop. You were not community banned just for the Einstein discussion. You were banned because the Einstein discussion was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Please look over your block log. This is a long standing problem. It is really, really hard for anyone to believe that you still don’t get this. Eventually, people think that when you apologize for bludgeoning, you don’t actually mean it, and you’re simply going to do it again. If you do not understand why this has frustrated so many people over the years, you are unlikely to ever, ever get unbanned. —] (]) 23:54, 30 January 2022 (UTC)


::::::It's insane that Misplaced Pages can't speak plain English. Einstein is Jewish, therefore it follows that Misplaced Pages should say "Einstein was Jewish" or "Einstein was a Jew". These assertions are totally supported by sources. And no source detracts from these assertions. Guardian article points out the problem with the representation of Jews on the Internet. Misplaced Pages is of course not a search engine. Editors have the capacity to order information in a way that is most straightforward. A search engine, by contrast, is more bound to its algorithm. You can pick any sentence out of The Guardian article to illustrate this point: "And ordering of search results does influence people, says Martin Moore, director of the Centre for the Study of Media, Communication and Power at King’s College, London, who has written at length on the impact of the big tech companies on our civic and political spheres." This is hardly rocket science. Misplaced Pages should aim to err on the side of point blank information in the sense of ], and yet one of the arguments I contended with in discussion was that my suggested wording was '''too blunt.''' I am accepting that I was wrong for refusing to accept ]. But as an encyclopedia we can strive to be better. I am therefore asking that my account be unblocked. It has been a year that I have not been able to edit Misplaced Pages. Isn't that long enough? ] (]) 00:25, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
] (]) 23:32, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
:::::::You are literally bludgeoning your own unblock request. That Guardian article is talking about Google and other search engines predicting "are jews evil" when someone types in "are jews". How in the world are you offering that as a justification for ] as the second sentence in Einstein's bio when, just two sentences later, the ''very next paragraph'' already started with "The Einsteins were non-observant Ashkenazi Jews". I'm sorry, Bus stop, I do believe you are well-intentioned, but if you can't see that you are ''showing us right here in your unblock request that you do not understand why you were blocked'', then this unfortunately also has become a competence issue. ] (]) 12:54, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
== Happy Holidays ==
*I think you are a capable content creator and you have a refined understanding of some aspects of policy. I think there's a number of policy arguments you got into where I think you were right and the WP mainstream was wrong. There is, however, one virtue, necessary to be a wholly constructive editor, that you lack: you're unwilling to accept that in certain situations, the consensus is against you and you have to accept it. The right thing to do in this situation is to take a break, look for compromises and find allies. Instead you go about saying you are right and your interlocutors are wrong. When this situation keeps repeating itself, it is disrespectful and uncivil. Please reflect on ]. &mdash; ] <small>]</small> 13:54, 14 February 2022 (UTC)


::::::::Valereee—the perspective of the ''']''' article is different from the perspective of the ''']''' article. In reference to the ] article you say {{green|''in the very next paragraph it says The Einsteins were non-observant Ashkenazi Jews.''}}'''' That perspective would be apropos in the ''']''' article but it is not ideal in the ''']''' article. When addressing the identity of an individual, as distinct from an entire family, we can explicitly say what that identity is, provided reliable sources unanimously or overwhelmingly support that identity, and the individual self-identifies with that identity—which is clearly the case concerning ]. He never veered from saying he was a Jew and all reliably sourced commentary supports that he was a Jew. Why wouldn't the ] article simply say that Albert Einstein was Jewish? There is no reason. No reason has been presented in and it is the discussion for which I'm banned. ] determined that the ] article should not articulate the entirely unsurprising assertion that Einstein was a Jew. Such an assertion would be unsurprising in Misplaced Pages or anywhere else because all sources support that conclusion. I ] the discussion about this in of the ] discussion page. I am banned for being overly argumentative. That is what is meant by ]. It should be noted that I brought many ] to support the entirely straightforward assertion that ] was a Jew. At this point I have been blocked for a full year. Yet I have conceded wrongdoing in being ] And I reiterate a promise not to be ] in future discussions. I am requesting that my account be unblocked so that I can edit constructively going forward. (For reference, this is your full quote: {{green|How in the world are you offering that as a justification for inserting "He was Jewish" as the second sentence in Einstein's bio when, just two sentences later, the very next paragraph already started with "The Einsteins were non-observant Ashkenazi Jews"}}) ] (]) 16:11, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
:::::::::Ditto my last post. To the community the above post is clear bludgeoning. If you can't see that, the chances the community would !vote to unblock are pretty much nil, IMO. I'm sorry, Bus stop. I wish you well. ] (]) 20:18, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
* Just to note, again, that this is a community ban and cannot be overturned by a single administrator, but must be discussed at ] (or by appeal to ArbCom). ] 18:30, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Season's greetings!'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I hope this holiday season is festive and fulfilling and filled with love and kindness, and that 2016 will be successful and rewarding...] (]) 23:37, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
|}
Thank you, {{u|Modernist}}, Likewise. ] (]) 00:16, 25 December 2015 (UTC)


== Can't just say the same thing over and over again forever ==
== RfC announce: Religion in infoboxes ==


Bus stop, if you continue to discuss Einstein's Jewishness and how we should describe it in our article, I am going to remove talk page access again. When ] restored talk page access per, evidently, an email request you sent ArbCom, I cannot imagine ArbCom had in mind enabling repeated rants about how Einstein is Jewish. ]'s refusal to take the earlier unban request to WP:AN was completely correct. In deference to ArbCom's decision, and against my better judgement, I'm leaving talk page access open for now, to give you one more chance to come up with a reasonable unban request that someone can put to the community at WP:AN. Necessary - '''but not sufficient''' - conditions for being considered "reasonable" include: it doesn't mention Einstein, it doesn't mention Judaism, and it shows some indication that you've read and understood ]. If, instead, we get more bludgeoning, or it does mention one of those two subjects, or if it is 100% obviously a non-starter, I will remove talk page access, to prevent further wasting of other people's time. I think you'll find if you lose access to your talk page again, you're probably not going to be able to get it back for a year or two (and possibly longer). Make it count. --] (]) 20:36, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
There is an RfC at ] concerning what What should be allowed in the religion entry in infoboxes. Please join the discussion and help us to arrive at a consensus on this issue. --] (]) 21:18, 17 January 2016 (UTC)


:''{{green|"I think you'll find if you lose access to your talk page again, you're probably not going to be able to get it back for a year or two (and possibly longer)."}}'' You are illustrating the very definition of the word "indefinite". My account has been '''indefinitely''' blocked, and that is why I am requesting that my account be unblocked. Please reread my unblock request. This is not rocket science. Another administrator has said the following:<P>
==Thanks==
For remembering... Still on wikibreak! ''''']''''' 07:31, 18 January 2016 (UTC)


::"Isn't erasure of Jews a concern? Einstein very clearly self-identified as Jewish and so surely we should respect that, instead of apparently trying to minimize that aspect of his life. Here's a very detailed analysis of his identity: https://aeon.co/essays/einstein-on-the-practical-matters-of-being-german-and-jewish (there's much more controversy about whether he was German than whether he was Jewish). Bus stop could certainly comment less, but the constant reverting by others, their lack of engagement with sources, and the repeated derailing sarcastic comments by Martinevans123 () are concerning." Fences&Windows 16:53, 17 February 2021 (UTC)<P>
== Discretionary sanctions alert ==


:Where did they say this you might ask? They said it in the What was the response to their above post? Nothing. Their words were totally ignored. Why don't you reread the ] discussion which can be found under the heading Are African-Americans identified as African-American? Or are African-Americans said to be born into African-American families? What do we find for ], ], ], ]? Of course they are identified as African-American as of course they should. Identities are either supported by ] or they are not. Misplaced Pages isn't a game for the creation of truth or the omission of relevant information. Misplaced Pages is a collaborative project in which the opinions of well-meaning editors should be respected. Misplaced Pages is best when it adheres to the findings of reliable sources. Misplaced Pages is at its worst when editors engage in ]. But you are an ] so you know this. ] is also an ]. Their quote begins with "Isn't erasure of Jews a concern?" ] (]) 21:56, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
{{Ivm|2=''This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Misplaced Pages. It does '''not''' imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.''


*As promised, I have removed talk page access and the ability to email thru Misplaced Pages. See previous block message for your options. --] (]) 22:02, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
'''Please carefully read this information:'''
** This is not a surprising outcome. Bus stop, you can't invoke my comments in that AN/I discussion as some kind of trump card. The consensus was for a community ban, so my opinion as a lone admin is moot. Any unblock request, which I believe you may send by email to Arbcom, will be considered by the community and if successful will be bound to come with conditions. You were banned and then unbanned once before in 2007 for similar behaviour (]), and you were on the cusp of a topic ban in 2014 (]), so any unban would almost certainly involve one or more topic bans including Judaism. I think you need to let go of expressing your views on how Misplaced Pages describes people's Jewishness to have any hope of editing again. ]<span style="background-color:white; color:#808080;">&amp;</span>] 16:05, 24 February 2022 (UTC)


== Edits to Baroness Joanna Shields page ==
The Arbitration Committee has authorised ] to be used for pages regarding all edits about, and all pages related to post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is ].


My name is Laura and I work for ], a baron, businessperson, and former British politician. The page about her was recently tagged for COI and advert issues due to some poor edits made years ago. I posted ]<nowiki> regarding my desire to address the substance of the tags with a re-write or heavy trims, to remove the promotional content. I was hoping you might be willing to chime in on the proposed trims and/or the suggestion for a rewrite. Let me know. Best regards.~~~~</nowiki> ] (]) 14:49, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means ] administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the ], our ], or relevant ]. Administrators may impose sanctions such as ], ], or ]. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.
}}{{Z33}}<!-- Derived from Template:Ds/alert --> --] (]) 14:41, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 14:49, 6 October 2023

This user has been banned indefinitely from editing the English Misplaced Pages by the community. Administrators, please review the banning policy before unblocking.
(block log · contributions · discussion at ANI)
Archiving icon
Archives

1 (June '07-July '07)

2 (July '07-Nov '08)

3 (Nov '08-July '11)

4 (July '11-May '17)

5 (May '17-Sept '18)

6 (Nov '18-Feb '21)


Please don't mess up my recently archived Talk page by posting anything that fails to meet my standards, which will be explained at a later time.

Indefinite block

Since you seem to be unwilling or unable to cease from badgering one respondent after another in your own siteban discussion (bludgeoning par excellence), I have blocked you indefinitely. Note that this is not the WP:CBAN. It needs to run for at least 3 days before it can reach a formal conclusion. El_C 03:04, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

El C—"Thank you for all that you've done for the project, not least of which for your humanity and grace." Bus stop (talk) 03:14, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
You are not him and have not earned anything remotely resembling such praise. Any further provocations will see your talk page access revoked. El_C 03:17, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
Do what you need to do, El C. You are an administrator. Bus stop (talk) 03:23, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
Bus stop, no frivolous pings, either, please. El_C 03:24, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
Don't say "please" if you don't mean it, El C. I don't reason with someone who holds a threat over my head. Bus stop (talk) 03:36, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
Bus stop, pardon the pun, but I will say please as I please. Talk page access revoked. El_C 03:39, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Twassman—sorry I couldn't continue right there, but my account was blocked

Twassman—I was open to several possible wordings such as, Einstein was Jewish, Einstein was a nonobservant Jew, Einstein was a secular Jew—it did not matter. The only acceptable language to my fellow editors was born into a Jewish family. Bus stop (talk) 03:21, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Your email

Please do not contact me by email again. I have zero interest in communicating with or debating with you off-Misplaced Pages. Cullen Let's discuss it 04:54, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Let it be noted to anyone who watches this page that Bus stop ignored my request to not contact me again by email, and sent another unwanted email. You are shameless, Bus stop, and I am forced to block emails from you. Cullen Let's discuss it 05:47, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
I've removed Bus stop's ability to use the "Email this user" facility. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:25, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

You are banned from Misplaced Pages

At WP:ANI, the community decided to make you subject to a site ban. See WP:SITEBAN. You are therefore forbidden to contribute to Misplaced Pages under any account or IP address. Sandstein 09:43, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

A ban appeal was at WP:AN. starship.paint (exalt) 14:55, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
You were a good editor, this parting part partially aside, best of luck in your future endeavours! InedibleHulk (talk) 05:54, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
This is most distressing. I hope you'll be able to come back after an obligatory wait time. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:17, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service

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This is wrong on so many levels it went back to feeling strangely fine again. 05:55, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

unblock request

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Bus stop (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

From a sourcing point of view there can be no doubt that Einstein was Jewish. But it was determined, based on such policies as WP:ONUS and WP:CONSENSUS, that the Albert Einstein article should not pointedly state "Einstein was Jewish". The other editors preferred the language "was born into a Jewish family". WP:ONUS tells us: "While information must be verifiable to be included in an article, not all verifiable information needs to be included in an article...consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article, and that it should be omitted". This information was clearly verifiable but consensus determined that its inclusion would not improve the article. I WP:BLUDGEONED at https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Albert_Einstein/Archive_19#Einstein_and_Jewishness. I should not have argued against a longstanding WP:CONSENSUS which did not want to pointedly state that Einstein was Jewish. The other editors weighing in to that discussion disagreed with the edit I was suggesting and I should have respected their opinion when it became obvious that consensus was against me. While I cannot undo the past I can vow never to do that again. I bludgeoned (WP:BLUDGEONED) the article Talk page and I offer this sincere commitment to not be overly argumentative at article Talk pages again. I am asking that my account be un-blocked so that I may continue to constructively edit Misplaced Pages. This was requested at https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive330#Ban_removal_request_of_Bus_stop but my request was denied with the expectation that I wait 6 months before requesting again. Hence this appeal now. Thank you.

Decline reason:

This is a community ban and as such an unblock request will need to be discussed at AN. I will copy this unblock request to there. Black Kite (talk) 20:16, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

What topics do you want to edit? PhilKnight (talk) 18:31, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

The record shows he's bludgeoned numerous discussions on topics far and wide in which the word "Jewish" comes up. I don't see anything in the request that indicates he understands or would be able to modify this behavior. SPECIFICO talk 19:00, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
Then how about an unblock with an indefinite "Jewish" topic ban? Then after a year or two the topic ban could perhaps also be revisited, contingent upon edit history. He appears to need a set of training wheels, but it's been six months so he should be given his bicycle back. - JGabbard (talk) 20:08, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

unblock request, yet again

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Bus stop (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

From a sourcing point of view there can be no doubt that Einstein was Jewish. But it was determined, based on such policies as WP:ONUS and WP:CONSENSUS, that the Albert Einstein article should not pointedly state "Einstein was Jewish". The other editors preferred the language "was born into a Jewish family". WP:ONUS tells us: "While information must be verifiable to be included in an article, not all verifiable information needs to be included in an article...consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article, and that it should be omitted". This information was clearly verifiable but consensus determined that its inclusion would not improve the article. I WP:BLUDGEONED at: https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Albert_Einstein/Archive_19#Einstein_and_Jewishness I should not have argued against a longstanding WP:CONSENSUS which did not want to pointedly state that Einstein was Jewish. The other editors weighing in to that discussion disagreed with the edit I was suggesting and I should have respected their opinion when it became obvious that consensus was against me. While I cannot undo the past I can vow never to do that again. I bludgeoned (WP:BLUDGEONED) the article Talk page and I offer this sincere commitment to not be overly argumentative at article Talk pages again. I am asking that my account be un-blocked so that I may continue to constructively edit Misplaced Pages. It should be very obvious that some people (editors) are very sensitive about Jewishness. I understand that and appreciate the need for caution in the assertion that the subject of an article is Jewish. This subject has been discussed truly ad infinitum at this project. As a non-editor, for over a year now, I have come across numerous discussions, often heated, as to whether a subject can be identified as Jewish or not. These would include current as well as older discussions. I think my above unblock request touches on some of the factors involved in these decision-making processes. I'm not sure what more I can say. I thank the community for their consideration. User:Bus stop

Decline reason:

WP:SNOWBALL. You are free to make another request, even using the same wording if you wish (though I don't advise it); maybe another admin will view your request more favourably. But, I simply don't see a path forward here. Yamla (talk) 15:46, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

@Yamla: are you aware that you are not giving any reason for your "decline"? This is an encyclopedia, and we are not required to speak in acronyms. We speak for clarity. Why are you referring to WP:SNOWBALL? Please expend the energy to express yourself in your own words with clarity. In the absence of any reason for a "decline" your reference to WP:SNOWBALL merely constitutes obfuscation. You can do better than that. Please engage in genuine dialogue. Thank you. Bus stop (talk) 16:09, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't believe, to quote WP:SNOWBALL, there's a "snowball's chance in hell" that the community would lift your ban. Indeed, I believe if I copied this request across, I may be sanctioned by the community for deliberately wasting their time. I'm not interested in engaging in dialogue with you, so this will be my last response (and, while your ping here was entirely appropriate, please don't ping me again). Again, I note you are free to make the exact same request again (though I advise against it) or you are free to make a different request. In either case, another admin will consider taking your appeal to the community. Please understand, I don't harbour a grudge against you and I sincerely wish you well with your future request, I just don't think this even remotely approaches anything that would lead to your ban being lifted. --Yamla (talk) 16:18, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
So Yamla, you are weighing in to tell me that there is no path forward here? That is what you are saying: "I simply don't see a path forward here". If you are going to say something, why not say something constructive? I say this with respect for you as an administrator and for the good that Misplaced Pages does. Misplaced Pages is unavoidable. I reference Misplaced Pages virtually daily. It is funny that someone (myself) who is cognizant of the importance of Misplaced Pages is blocked from participation at Misplaced Pages over my participation at a simple discussion called Einstein and Jewishness. That could have been an edifying discussion. Instead it is leading to my permanent block from participation at Misplaced Pages. "Edifying" in the sense that I brought many good quality sources to bear on the subject under discussion. Bus stop (talk) 16:50, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Bus stop, I'll comment, although I'm not sure it will actually be helpful. Quite honestly to me it looks like the only possibility for you getting editing privileges back would be to suggest a very strict set of editing restrictions for yourself, and I suspect you need a lot longer time off than this. Anything in less than a year is likely to actually hurt you. I'd actually suggest maybe waiting two, and again suggesting editing restrictions that address all of the issues. Off the top of my head I'd suggest a self-imposed tban from Jewishness and a limit of one response per discussion. (Also, w/re pinging: you no longer need to ping anyone except the first time you mention them in a section. People can now subscribe to any section they want notifications for. I don't mind pings, but anyone else you should probably assume that if they wanted notification, they'd have subscribed.) valereee (talk) 17:08, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
"I'll comment, although I'm not sure it will actually be helpful". You know that it will be unhelpful because you know it is disproportionate to what transpired. This is what transpired. Bus stop (talk) 23:06, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
But this response is a perfect example of why you’re currently banned, Bus stop. You were not community banned just for the Einstein discussion. You were banned because the Einstein discussion was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Please look over your block log. This is a long standing problem. It is really, really hard for anyone to believe that you still don’t get this. Eventually, people think that when you apologize for bludgeoning, you don’t actually mean it, and you’re simply going to do it again. If you do not understand why this has frustrated so many people over the years, you are unlikely to ever, ever get unbanned. —Floquenbeam (talk) 23:54, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
It's insane that Misplaced Pages can't speak plain English. Einstein is Jewish, therefore it follows that Misplaced Pages should say "Einstein was Jewish" or "Einstein was a Jew". These assertions are totally supported by sources. And no source detracts from these assertions. This Guardian article points out the problem with the representation of Jews on the Internet. Misplaced Pages is of course not a search engine. Editors have the capacity to order information in a way that is most straightforward. A search engine, by contrast, is more bound to its algorithm. You can pick any sentence out of The Guardian article to illustrate this point: "And ordering of search results does influence people, says Martin Moore, director of the Centre for the Study of Media, Communication and Power at King’s College, London, who has written at length on the impact of the big tech companies on our civic and political spheres." This is hardly rocket science. Misplaced Pages should aim to err on the side of point blank information in the sense of "directly; bluntly; without pretense or caution", and yet one of the arguments I contended with in this discussion was that my suggested wording was too blunt. I am accepting that I was wrong for refusing to accept consensus. But as an encyclopedia we can strive to be better. I am therefore asking that my account be unblocked. It has been a year that I have not been able to edit Misplaced Pages. Isn't that long enough? Bus stop (talk) 00:25, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
You are literally bludgeoning your own unblock request. That Guardian article is talking about Google and other search engines predicting "are jews evil" when someone types in "are jews". How in the world are you offering that as a justification for inserting "He was Jewish" as the second sentence in Einstein's bio when, just two sentences later, the very next paragraph already started with "The Einsteins were non-observant Ashkenazi Jews". I'm sorry, Bus stop, I do believe you are well-intentioned, but if you can't see that you are showing us right here in your unblock request that you do not understand why you were blocked, then this unfortunately also has become a competence issue. valereee (talk) 12:54, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
  • I think you are a capable content creator and you have a refined understanding of some aspects of policy. I think there's a number of policy arguments you got into where I think you were right and the WP mainstream was wrong. There is, however, one virtue, necessary to be a wholly constructive editor, that you lack: you're unwilling to accept that in certain situations, the consensus is against you and you have to accept it. The right thing to do in this situation is to take a break, look for compromises and find allies. Instead you go about saying you are right and your interlocutors are wrong. When this situation keeps repeating itself, it is disrespectful and uncivil. Please reflect on WP:5P4. — Charles Stewart (talk) 13:54, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
Valereee—the perspective of the Einstein family article is different from the perspective of the Albert Einstein article. In reference to the Albert Einstein article you say in the very next paragraph it says The Einsteins were non-observant Ashkenazi Jews. That perspective would be apropos in the Einstein family article but it is not ideal in the Albert Einstein article. When addressing the identity of an individual, as distinct from an entire family, we can explicitly say what that identity is, provided reliable sources unanimously or overwhelmingly support that identity, and the individual self-identifies with that identity—which is clearly the case concerning Albert Einstein. He never veered from saying he was a Jew and all reliably sourced commentary supports that he was a Jew. Why wouldn't the Albert Einstein article simply say that Albert Einstein was Jewish? There is no reason. No reason has been presented in this discussion and it is the discussion for which I'm banned. WP:CONSENSUS determined that the Albert Einstein article should not articulate the entirely unsurprising assertion that Einstein was a Jew. Such an assertion would be unsurprising in Misplaced Pages or anywhere else because all sources support that conclusion. I WP:BLUDGEONED the discussion about this in this section of the Albert Einstein discussion page. I am banned for being overly argumentative. That is what is meant by BLUDGEONING. It should be noted that I brought many good quality sources to support the entirely straightforward assertion that Albert Einstein was a Jew. At this point I have been blocked for a full year. Yet I have conceded wrongdoing in being overly argumentative. And I reiterate a promise not to be overly argumentative in future discussions. I am requesting that my account be unblocked so that I can edit constructively going forward. (For reference, this is your full quote: How in the world are you offering that as a justification for inserting "He was Jewish" as the second sentence in Einstein's bio when, just two sentences later, the very next paragraph already started with "The Einsteins were non-observant Ashkenazi Jews") Bus stop (talk) 16:11, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Ditto my last post. To the community the above post is clear bludgeoning. If you can't see that, the chances the community would !vote to unblock are pretty much nil, IMO. I'm sorry, Bus stop. I wish you well. valereee (talk) 20:18, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Can't just say the same thing over and over again forever

Bus stop, if you continue to discuss Einstein's Jewishness and how we should describe it in our article, I am going to remove talk page access again. When User:Bradv restored talk page access per, evidently, an email request you sent ArbCom, I cannot imagine ArbCom had in mind enabling repeated rants about how Einstein is Jewish. User:Yamla's refusal to take the earlier unban request to WP:AN was completely correct. In deference to ArbCom's decision, and against my better judgement, I'm leaving talk page access open for now, to give you one more chance to come up with a reasonable unban request that someone can put to the community at WP:AN. Necessary - but not sufficient - conditions for being considered "reasonable" include: it doesn't mention Einstein, it doesn't mention Judaism, and it shows some indication that you've read and understood WP:GAB. If, instead, we get more bludgeoning, or it does mention one of those two subjects, or if it is 100% obviously a non-starter, I will remove talk page access, to prevent further wasting of other people's time. I think you'll find if you lose access to your talk page again, you're probably not going to be able to get it back for a year or two (and possibly longer). Make it count. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:36, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

"I think you'll find if you lose access to your talk page again, you're probably not going to be able to get it back for a year or two (and possibly longer)." You are illustrating the very definition of the word "indefinite". My account has been indefinitely blocked, and that is why I am requesting that my account be unblocked. Please reread my unblock request. This is not rocket science. Another administrator has said the following:

"Isn't erasure of Jews a concern? Einstein very clearly self-identified as Jewish and so surely we should respect that, instead of apparently trying to minimize that aspect of his life. Here's a very detailed analysis of his identity: https://aeon.co/essays/einstein-on-the-practical-matters-of-being-german-and-jewish (there's much more controversy about whether he was German than whether he was Jewish). Bus stop could certainly comment less, but the constant reverting by others, their lack of engagement with sources, and the repeated derailing sarcastic comments by Martinevans123 () are concerning." Fences&Windows 16:53, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Where did they say this you might ask? They said it in the discussion that led to the current block. What was the response to their above post? Nothing. Their words were totally ignored. Why don't you reread the WP:ANI discussion which can be found here under the heading "Bludgeoning (Bus stop)". Are African-Americans identified as African-American? Or are African-Americans said to be born into African-American families? What do we find for Eric Adams, Alvin Bragg, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks? Of course they are identified as African-American as of course they should. Identities are either supported by reliable sources or they are not. Misplaced Pages isn't a game for the creation of truth or the omission of relevant information. Misplaced Pages is a collaborative project in which the opinions of well-meaning editors should be respected. Misplaced Pages is best when it adheres to the findings of reliable sources. Misplaced Pages is at its worst when editors engage in original research. But you are an administrator so you know this. User:Fences and windows is also an administrator. Their quote begins with "Isn't erasure of Jews a concern?" Bus stop (talk) 21:56, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Edits to Baroness Joanna Shields page

My name is Laura and I work for Joanna Shields, Baroness Shields, a baron, businessperson, and former British politician. The page about her was recently tagged for COI and advert issues due to some poor edits made years ago. I posted here regarding my desire to address the substance of the tags with a re-write or heavy trims, to remove the promotional content. I was hoping you might be willing to chime in on the proposed trims and/or the suggestion for a rewrite. Let me know. Best regards.~~~~ LauTad89 (talk) 14:49, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

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