| Revision as of 22:11, 19 November 2011 editAnonymiss Madchen (talk | contribs)407 edits →Recent changes← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 18:41, 7 January 2025 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,309,086 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:Rape during the occupation of Germany/Archive 4) (bot |
| (780 intermediate revisions by 94 users not shown) |
| Line 1: |
Line 1: |
|
{{talk header|search=yes}} |
|
{{Talk header|search=yes}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|1= |
|
|
{{WikiProject Germany|importance=mid}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Military history|class=C|B1=Yes |
|
|
<!-- B-Class-2. It reasonably covers the topic, and |
|
|
does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies. -->|B2=No |
|
|
<!-- B-Class-3. It has a defined structure, including |
|
|
a lead section and one or more sections of content. -->|B3=No |
|
|
<!-- B-Class-4. It is free from major grammatical errors. -->|B4=Yes |
|
|
<!-- B-Class-5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, |
|
|
such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. -->|B5=No|German=yes|WWII=yes|British-task-force=yes|French-task-force=yes|US-task-force=yes|Cold-War-task-force=yes|Russian=yes}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Soviet Union|importance=mid |hist=yes|mil=yes |rus=yes|rus-importance=mid}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject United States|importance=mid|UShistory=yes|UShistory-importance=mid}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Feminism|importance=mid}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Men's Issues|importance=low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Sociology|importance=low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Discrimination|importance=low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Gender Studies|importance=Low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Sexology and sexuality|importance=Low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Law|importance=low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography|importance=low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Medicine|importance=low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Women's Health|importance=low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Former countries}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Cold War|importance=low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject United Kingdom|importance=Low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject France|importance=low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject European history|importance=mid}} |
|
|
}} |
|
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
|
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
|
|archiveheader = {{aan}} |
|
|archiveheader = {{aan}} |
|
|maxarchivesize = 150K |
|
|maxarchivesize = 150K |
|
|counter = 2 |
|
|counter = 4 |
|
|minthreadsleft = 5 |
|
|minthreadsleft = 5 |
|
|algo = old(90d) |
|
|algo = old(90d) |
|
|archive = Talk:Rape during the occupation of Germany/Archive %(counter)d |
|
|archive = Talk:Rape during the occupation of Germany/Archive %(counter)d |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
{{Auto archiving notice |bot=MiszaBot I |age=3 |units=months }} |
|
|
{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn |
|
{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn |
|
|target=/Archive index |mask=/Archive <#> |leading_zeros=0 |indexhere=yes |
|
|target=/Archive index |mask=/Archive <#> |leading_zeros=0 |indexhere=yes |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1= |
|
|
{{WikiProject Germany|class=start|importance=low}} |
|
|
{{WPMILHIST|class=stub |
|
|
<!-- B-Class 5-criteria checklist --> |
|
|
<!-- B-Class-1. It is suitably referenced, and all |
|
|
major points have appropriate inline citations. --> |
|
|
|B1=Yes |
|
|
<!-- B-Class-2. It reasonably covers the topic, and |
|
|
does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies. --> |
|
|
|B2=No |
|
|
<!-- B-Class-3. It has a defined structure, including |
|
|
a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |
|
|
|B3=No |
|
|
<!-- B-Class-4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |
|
|
|B4=Yes |
|
|
<!-- B-Class-5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, |
|
|
such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |
|
|
|B5=No |
|
|
|German=yes |
|
|
|WW2=yes}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Soviet Union |class=start |importance=low |hist=yes|mil=yes |rus=yes|rus-importance=low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject United States|class=start|importance=low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Feminism|class=start|importance=low}} |
|
|
}} |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Recent changes == |
|
|
|
|
|
This text is totally misleading. There were ''no'' hospital reports about 2 million rapes, and the eruption of the abortion numbers was not due to the rapes. All statistics is based on the fact that 1,156 "Russian children" were born in the Berlin area. The number of 100,000 raped women was obteined based solely on that fact, and on the general assumptions about the percentage of successful abortions, the probablility of pregnancy after the rape, and similar general information. The number of 2 million rapes in Germany as whole was obtained based on ''extrapolation'' of the Berlin data assuming that the rape frequency was similar in the rest parts of Germany. In any event, it is quite necessary to remember that all estmates are based on 1,156 "Russian children".--] (]) 17:05, 21 October 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
: As I recall "2,000,000" is Breevor's number for number of German women and girls raped by the Red Army, the calculation of which scholars have deemed to be "impeccable," and which is, furthermore, widely referenced in other sources. When I have a chance I'll look it up and put that in, along with text appropriately representing the source. ]<small> ►]</small> 18:18, 21 October 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
: Looking back, there appear to be sufficient references as it is for the 2,000,000 #. I'll read more closely when I have a chance. ]<small> ►]</small> 18:20, 21 October 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
::This calculations have been criticised (you can find the quotes in the talk page archives), and therefore, by no means are "impeccable". Try to read the sources more closely. If you have no access to them, try to look through the talk page archives: the procedure that has been used by Sander&Johr (the only attempt to do any objective estimate) was described by me (I provided a full quote from their book).--] (]) 02:13, 30 October 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
:I apologize, I appear to have reworded things incorrectly. I agree with what has been said here. However, the paragraph still reads: "estimates of the numbers of German women raped by Soviet soldiers in Berlin alone is around 2 million," which is incorrect according to several of the sources I read. Even if it was, the second sentence following it, which reads: "At least 100,000 women are believed to have been raped in Berlin," struck me immediately as confusing and in disagreement with the first quote. More comprehensible and/or accurate may be to say something to the effect of: "At least 100,000 women are believed to have been raped in Berlin alone , based on surging abortion rates in the following months and contemporary hospital reports, although broader estimates place the number of women raped closer to 2 million." But again, 2 million seems to be the approximate estimate German Reich-wide or German Reich-wide only by Soviet soldiers. ] (]) 01:50, 30 October 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
::Thank you for pointing at this inconsistency. As far as I know, the number of 2 million rape in Berlin is not supported by the sources used. Thus, tells that "''it is estimated that up to two million German women were raped during the last six months of World War Two, around 100,000 of them in Berlin. ''". Heineman (The hour of woman) says "''Estimates of the numbers of rapes at the hands of Soviet soldiers range widely, from the tens of thousands to 2 million''", however, she speaks about Germany as whole, not about the Berlin area. In other words, the words "in Berlin alone" should be removed.--] (]) 02:07, 30 October 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
:::Agreed. Between yourself and ], it appears the necessary edits have been made. ] (]) 20:15, 30 October 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
::::While a little progress has been made, this article excessively contextualizes rape by the Red Army and even engages in ]. The article abandons any pretense of neutrality by engaging counter-argument upon counter-argument in an obvious attempt to categorically discredit accusations against the Red Army. It is telling that no similar arguments are included about rapes by other Allied Powers. Russian/Soviet voices denying the rapes are given ample room (including charming anecdotes about the humanitarian spirit of the Red Army), but not a single quote from a single woman/rape victim is included - They are completely erased! Mind you, along with the rapes the Red Army committed in Poland, Hungary, upon concentration camp survivors, and even in the Soviet Union, the fact that the rapes occurred ''en masse'' is not considered controversial among mainstream historians. This article deliberately hides that fact - it's like reading an article on evolution written by ]. With its excessive contextualization and erasure of women's voices, this article is nothing short of offensive. Given the extreme lack of importance the article places on women's testimony, is probably no coincidence that all the recent editors appear to be males.] (]) 03:07, 18 November 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
:::::By contextualizing the rapes committed by the Red Army, the article simply follows what the reliable sources say. There is no reason to discredit accusations against the Red Army, it is sufficient just to explain that (i) the massive rapes had been perpetrated by the army that bore the major brunt of the WWII, (ii) that the rapists had been previously been the witnesses (or even the victims) of much more brutal crimes committed by Wehrmacht/SS, (iii) the relatives or friends of almost every rapist were either killed, expelled, raped, or deprived of their homes by the Germans. None of these conditions are applied to the armies of the Western allies, and by omitting them we commit the sine against historical truth. |
|
|
:::::Re victim blaming, taking into account the "i-iii" listed by be, it is hard to tell who was a victim and who has to be blamed.--] (]) 03:29, 18 November 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
::::::Now even the discussion attempts to further contextualize and diminish the Red Army's crimes! The Red Army's crimes remain crimes - there is ''always'' a context and a reason for any crime committed by anyone. What Wehrmacht or SS soldiers did or did not do ''in no way'' justifies or sufficiently contextualizes-away rapes committed against women aged 8 (and lower) to 80+. Unfortunately that is what this article in its present form attempts to do. On top of that, this article about rape gives no voice to the raped and only offers voices of the perpetrators that dismiss the accusations. It's rather perverse, ], and revisionist. A more appropriate, balanced, and meaningful way to tackle this topic would be to give a straight-forward account of the wide-spread rapes/violence by the Red Army, including accounts from various women/victims. ''After'' that, background/context should be given to help understand ''why'' this happened, but never in a way that implies that crimes do not remain crimes. In addition, a section on Soviet/Russian ways of interpreting/handling on the violence/rapes would be informative as well. In its current form, this article does Misplaced Pages a disservice and is yet another example of a biased and amateurish account of history that cements Misplaced Pages's reputation as an unreliable source of information. It is ''only'' by tackling these types of issues effectively that the Misplaced Pages community can prove it can be a viable source of information.] (]) 05:42, 18 November 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Favorable comparison and apologetic language + bias is out of place and should be removed == |
|
::::::I also find it interesting that the article, like most such articles on Misplaced Pages, ''only'' seems to approach this topic in terms of nationality. There are so many ways to define people; nationality is but one of dozens (and more) that apply to any one person. On a tangential note, but I think it helps illustrate my point, in bombing Germany during the war, British and American forces deliberately targeted working class neighborhoods in large cities in order to kill as many civilians as possible. Ironically, in doing so, they were targeting "districts were the heart of anti-Nazi resistance in anti-Nazi cities like Hamburg."<ref>http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/01/the-wartime-toll-on-germany/2661/</ref> How does the logic being that attempts to contextualize-away the rapes by the Red Army look in that kind of light? Other than originating in the same country (or not in the case of many immigrants, prisoners, etc), what direct correlation is there between crimes committed by Wehrmacht and SS soldiers (who also could be from various countries, btw) that directly explains why raping girls, women, and old ladies (who may or may not have even been of German ethnicity) is a justifiable act?] (]) 06:06, 18 November 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
:::::::Reliable sources do contextualize the rapes. And explaining the reasons behind those rapes doesn't mean the moral justification, (i.e. it is about why that happened, and not about that being "a right thing to do"). Crimes remain crimes, but it is necessary to understand why they happened. ] ] 19:13, 18 November 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The statement in the beginning of the "British troops" section trivializes the British crimes by comparing it to Soviet crimes, "while not on the scale of the Red Army in the Soviet Zone". |
|
::::::::What I have put forth is that it is fine to contextualize - ''everything'' in history should be contextualized. My problem is that this article contextualizes through and through, so much so that the history and the facts themselves are lost. It would be more appropriate, accurate, and proper for the issue to be presented factually at first and ''then'' have a context. Again, the fact that this article is highly misogynistic seems to be lost on my fellow editors. All anyone seems to see is justification that makes it all fine. Instead of history, we're getting history-infused versions of classic rapist's excuses such as "She was asking for it!", "I was drunk", "She's just a whore anyhow", "She had it coming!", and worse. Moreover, my fellow editors also willingly forget that the Red Army did these same rapes against women throughout Eastern Europe - so Nazi crimes in the USSR only offer a partial, incomplete context/explanation in the first place.] (]) 19:51, 19 November 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
|
Also the wording is apologetic, such as "some rapes were carried out by soldiers either suffering from post traumatic stress or who were drunk" (like other soldiers weren't suffering from stress, or being drunk provides an apology). |
|
---- |
|
|
|
"However, he adds that probably referred to attacks by former slave labourers (displaced persons) seeking revenge" is also out of place in the section, because it should deal with the British crimes only. |
|
''Now even the discussion attempts to further contextualize and diminish the ]! The ] - there is ''always'' a ] for any crime committed by ]. What ] did or did not do ''in no way'' justifies or sufficiently contextualizes-away rapes committed against ]. Unfortunately that is what this article in its present form attempts to do. On top of that, this article about rape gives no voice to the ] and only offers voices of the perpetrators that dismiss the accusations. It's rather perverse, ], and revisionist. ] way to tackle this topic would be to give a straight-forward account of the wide-spread ] by the Red Army, including accounts from various ]. ''After'' that, background/context should be given to help understand ''why'' this happened, but never in a way that implies that crimes do not remain crimes. In addition, a section on ] ways of interpreting/handling on the violence/rapes would be informative as well. In its current form, this article does Misplaced Pages a disservice and is yet another example of a biased and amateurish account of history that cements Misplaced Pages's reputation as an unreliable source of information. It is ''only'' by tackling these types of issues effectively that the Misplaced Pages community can prove it can be a viable source of information.] (]) 05:42, 18 November 2011 (UTC)'' |
|
|
|
The wording about "probably deserved it" is also not applied to Soviet or U.S. crimes. A clear bias in the section. ] (]) 21:03, 30 October 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Sources on these subjects == |
|
'''Re: ] profoundly a-historical suggestion.''' |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Not to demean the topic, but I'm skeptical of the source for 1.9 million people being assaulted in Silesia, I feel there has to be more sources since this is an enormous number. ] (]) 17:57, 23 October 2024 (UTC) |
|
Contextualizing the supposed ''crimes'', as claimed by Udibi, is not the same thing as diminishing those acts of punishment inflicted on the Nazis for murdering 20,000,000 people. I find his reference to SS Paramilitary as ''soldiers'' to be deeply disturbing, a-historical, ill-informed, and suspicious, as SS Paramilitaries were not soldiers and were not even part of the military. While Nazi acts of genocide do not in themselves justify rape, they make it very understandable why people who assisted in the worst mass murder in history were punished by the surviving victims. Related, the Nazis were very popular and had massive support from the population, who in turn offered no resistance to the Nazi regime; he who keeps silent consents; these women were therefore active supporters of the Holocaust. It would not have been difficult for them to fight against the Nazis in some way, and they should not receive sympathy for not doing so and allowing 20,000,000 people to be murdered. I really see no problem of revisionism here. I recommend that other editors be very wary of this proposal to create a self proclaimed ''more appropriate, balanced, and meaningful way to tackle this topic'' as it may lead us to perpetuating the moral equivalency arguments of covert Holocaust deniers. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
:Exactly, it needs to be fixed. ] (]) 10:36, 23 November 2024 (UTC) |
|
I think we also need to consider whether this is not just a case of hundreds of thousands of German women ''getting lucky'' with their liberators (a view shared by many Germans, described in The Fall of Berlin 1945) and then telling local Nazi leaders or Werewolf members that they were raped, in a regime where they could not openly have any sort of relationship with Russians. |
|
|
|
:Where does the article give that figure for Silesia? ] (]) 11:55, 23 November 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Semi-protected edit request on 27 October 2024 == |
|
--] 17:29, 19 November 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
{{Edit semi-protected|Rape during the occupation of Germany|answered=yes}} |
|
::Wow! That was disturbing. No wonder Misplaced Pages has no legitimacy on historical matters. You jump all over me for a liberal use of the word "soldiers" and then go on to say that rapes are "supposed "crimes"" and that the raped women, perhaps, merely ''"got lucky".'' Really? Really!? You have the audacity to make such profoundly insane, misogynistic, revisionist, sick-fantasy statements and then have the nerve to call my suggestions (basically that women should have a voice), a-historical. It is all so absurd and indefensible that I can only assume you are a troll and therefore worthy of nothing but being ignored.] (]) 19:41, 19 November 2011 (UTC) |
|
|
|
change "The exact number of German women and girls raped by Soviet troops during the war and occupation is uncertain, but historians estimate their numbers are likely in the hundreds of thousands, and possibly as many as two million." |
|
|
to "The exact number of German citizens raped by Soviet troops during the war and occupation is uncertain, but historians estimate their numbers are likely in the hundreds of thousands, and possibly as many as two million." and similar parts in the article (as there's nothing to suggest that German men weren't raped also) ] (]) 20:33, 27 October 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:{{Not done}}: please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ⸺(])] 05:39, 28 October 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Critics about data concerning amount of rapes by Soviet soldiers == |
|
:::First of all, I was only pointing out that your use of the term ''soldier'' was incorrect, and that it can lead to a general acceptance of the SS as legitmate soldiers, an already dangerously common view. I was not "jumping all over you" by providing a technical insight which is significant. And additionally, I '''never''' in any way called '''all''' rapes ''supposed crimes''; I simply pointed out that German women who viewed themselves as liberated from Nazism or war lived under a regime which would have deported them to concentration camps for having any sexual involvement with anyone considered untermenchlich, could have decided to reward or celebrate with the liberators and then obviously for their own protection claimed that they were raped when Nazis came asking about it. Additionally, they could have been Nazis, or related to Nazis, and would not have been able to confess ]. Do you realize that I am a racially German girl living in the United States? The level of emotion in your personal attack demonstrates a level of fanatism that is very strange. I also never addressed '''and therefore never condemned you suggestion that women should have a voice.''' If that is something that you want, than it is on you to persue it; we are busy with our own research and cannot do yours for you. However, I will warn you that you should be very cautious about believing anything written by German women, as they may likely be Nazis, and will have a very biased approach to recording the mass rape by the Russians, and would likely outright exaggerate it; many Nazi women openly admit to Western historians that they greatly exaggerated the rape of the Red Army for pro Nazi and anti Communist causes for Gobbels. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This article doesn't look really objective. There is a mention of a specific "Russian culture" which is surely patriarchal. Communist after they came to power gave a lot of rights to women. For example, USSR became the 1st country in the world that gave rights for abortion a right that in some countries of the civilized "Western World" (USA) is still restricted! Also, there is basically no critics for the studies mentioned in the article despite the fact that there are enough historians that indicated deficiency in the mentioned researches. Thus, most of the estimates that says millions of rapes are based on the book of Helke Sander and Barbara Johr. However, if you check how did they get these results, you'll see that they took data from single Berlin hospital (there were data if the woman was raped and if the father is Russian). They decided that if the father is Russian then the woman was raped (about 10% of cases based on data). Then, they said that in the entire Germany situation was exactly the same as in this single hospital! I believe that it's not good source based on authority (CRAAP) therefore even if you shall mention it you must show that there serious doubts about quality of this research! Next, this data about 100000 abortions after rape in Berlin. First of all it's not strictly 100000, but 20000 to 100000. Secondly, if the woman stated that she was raped the abortion was free. All she had to provide was written statement. Some historians (Antina Grossman) found several patterns in these statements that indicate that att least some of them were false. All the mentioned sources are already exist and used in the russian page of wikipedia https://ru.wikipedia.org/Насилие_в_отношении_мирного_населения_Германии_в_конце_Второй_мировой_войны#Оценки_числа_изнасилованных. Hope, you'll soon correct the english article so, that readers would be provided with more correct information! ] (]) 21:51, 1 November 2024 (UTC) |
|
:::I am not a Communist, nor ethnically Russian, so I do not understand why you think I am being ''revisonist''. If you have your own agenda, please share this with us. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Eyewitness Account Section has unexplained and unchallenged focus on shifting blame to Asian, Khazak, and Mongolian Soldiers from Western Soviet Men == |
|
:::I also advise you to aplogize for your personal attack, as I will be reporting you to ANI. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In the "Eyewitness Accounts and Anti-Soviet Propoganda" section, there seems to be an non-contextualized and frankly disturbing focus on characterizing the rapes as being primarily perpetrated by Asian, Khazak, and Mongol men. The evidence for this narrative seems quite scant given the egregiousness with which the article focuses on shifting the blame onto those specific populations away from Russian + West Soviet perpetrators. ] (]) 09:48, 7 January 2025 (UTC) |
|
::::] 22:11, 19 November 2011 (UTC) |
|
The statement in the beginning of the "British troops" section trivializes the British crimes by comparing it to Soviet crimes, "while not on the scale of the Red Army in the Soviet Zone".
Also the wording is apologetic, such as "some rapes were carried out by soldiers either suffering from post traumatic stress or who were drunk" (like other soldiers weren't suffering from stress, or being drunk provides an apology).
"However, he adds that probably referred to attacks by former slave labourers (displaced persons) seeking revenge" is also out of place in the section, because it should deal with the British crimes only.
The wording about "probably deserved it" is also not applied to Soviet or U.S. crimes. A clear bias in the section. 46.138.32.56 (talk) 21:03, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
change "The exact number of German women and girls raped by Soviet troops during the war and occupation is uncertain, but historians estimate their numbers are likely in the hundreds of thousands, and possibly as many as two million."
to "The exact number of German citizens raped by Soviet troops during the war and occupation is uncertain, but historians estimate their numbers are likely in the hundreds of thousands, and possibly as many as two million." and similar parts in the article (as there's nothing to suggest that German men weren't raped also) YapperYaps (talk) 20:33, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
This article doesn't look really objective. There is a mention of a specific "Russian culture" which is surely patriarchal. Communist after they came to power gave a lot of rights to women. For example, USSR became the 1st country in the world that gave rights for abortion a right that in some countries of the civilized "Western World" (USA) is still restricted! Also, there is basically no critics for the studies mentioned in the article despite the fact that there are enough historians that indicated deficiency in the mentioned researches. Thus, most of the estimates that says millions of rapes are based on the book of Helke Sander and Barbara Johr. However, if you check how did they get these results, you'll see that they took data from single Berlin hospital (there were data if the woman was raped and if the father is Russian). They decided that if the father is Russian then the woman was raped (about 10% of cases based on data). Then, they said that in the entire Germany situation was exactly the same as in this single hospital! I believe that it's not good source based on authority (CRAAP) therefore even if you shall mention it you must show that there serious doubts about quality of this research! Next, this data about 100000 abortions after rape in Berlin. First of all it's not strictly 100000, but 20000 to 100000. Secondly, if the woman stated that she was raped the abortion was free. All she had to provide was written statement. Some historians (Antina Grossman) found several patterns in these statements that indicate that att least some of them were false. All the mentioned sources are already exist and used in the russian page of wikipedia https://ru.wikipedia.org/Насилие_в_отношении_мирного_населения_Германии_в_конце_Второй_мировой_войны#Оценки_числа_изнасилованных. Hope, you'll soon correct the english article so, that readers would be provided with more correct information! Egor Bilialov (talk) 21:51, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
In the "Eyewitness Accounts and Anti-Soviet Propoganda" section, there seems to be an non-contextualized and frankly disturbing focus on characterizing the rapes as being primarily perpetrated by Asian, Khazak, and Mongol men. The evidence for this narrative seems quite scant given the egregiousness with which the article focuses on shifting the blame onto those specific populations away from Russian + West Soviet perpetrators. 24.56.244.130 (talk) 09:48, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
Referencing and citation: criterion met
Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met.svg)
.svg){kind=small}
,_Emblem_of_Russia_(1991%E2%80%931992).svg)
.svg){kind=small}
.svg){kind=small}
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ⸺(Random)staplers 05:39, 28 October 2024 (UTC)