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<!--PLEASE PLACE NEW REQUESTS BELOW THIS NOTICE -->


==Lemabeta==
== Jalapenos do exist ==
{{hat|{{u|Lemabeta}} has acknowledged the warnings here to take more care and stay well clear of articles from which they are restricted from editing. Further violations are very likely to lead to sanctions, up to and including an indefinite block. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 12:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC) }}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Lemabeta===
{{hat|1=] is placed under a new 1RR restriction on all I/P topics for three months with details as provided within. ] (]) 06:12, 20 December 2010 (UTC) }}
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|EF5}} 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
===Request concerning Jalapenos do exist===
; User requesting enforcement : ] (]) 05:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Jalapenos do exist}} ; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Lemabeta}}<p>{{ds/log|Lemabeta}}</p>


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ]

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# ] - see explanation in "Additional comments" section below
# ], see below # - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
# ], see below # - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.
# ], see below
# , ], see below
# , ], see below
# , ], see below
# , ], see below
# , ], see below
# , ], see below
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
# Warning by {{user|Georgewilliamherbert}}
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : Topic ban. Preferably an extended one.


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : <br/>
{{hat|Substituted short version of evidence below}}
Last month, Jalapenos do exist submitted an article, ], to ] for consideration for promotion to the main page. I happened to notice it in the DYK queue on December 4, about 16 hours before it was due for mainpage display, took a look at the article and decided it was POV. Rather than pulling it from the queue or requesting it be pulled however, I decided to delete the most objectionable items, and allow it to proceed despite my misgivings concerning the rest of the content. I also did some pruning of a related article, ], , leaving a note at the article's talk page explaining my edits, ].


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
When I returned to Misplaced Pages the following day, I noted that Jalapenos had reverted my edit to the second article with the single word ''Nonsense'', restoring some highly tendentious material to the lead which implied that an official UN conference distributed antisemitic libels and "portraits of Adolf Hitler". Jalapenos completely ignored my reasons for deletion given on the talk page in doing so. Moreover, his reversion was made less than 40 minutes before the article was due for (proxy) promotion, leaving almost no time for anybody to see it and prevent it going to the main page.
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:(Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:: <small>Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. ] (]/]) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)</small>
::(RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning Lemabeta===
Shortly thereafter, I noticed a second DYK nomination from Jalapenos at ], ], with a hook another user described as "agenda-driven". The article had been nominated at AfD by another user and passed, though 14 out of 22 users at the AFD either ] the article's content.
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Lemabeta====
I too had major concerns about the article, considering it to be an obvious ] for showcasing a handful of carefully cherry-picked, albeit dubious, sources purportedly demonstrating Israel's humanitarian concern for avoiding civilian casualties - a conclusion that I consider to be ] since it flies in the face of a large body of evidence compiled by NGOs criticizing the same state for excessive use of force.
Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --] (]) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


:Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are '''related but distinct concepts'''. An ''ethnographic group'' refers to a '''community of people''' defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, ''cultural heritage'' refers to the *''practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past''. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
My initial impulse once again was simply to argue for disqualification of the article at DYK because the problems were too extensive to be remedied within DYK's short timeframe. After complaints from Jalapenos and one or two of his buddies, however, I decided, once again very much against my better judgement, to try and remedy the worst of the problems myself in an attempt to bring it up to DYK standard, in an effort to avoid Wikidrama (the entire discussion at T:TDYK can be reviewed ).
:So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. ] (]) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) '''emerges from''' ethnographic groups but '''does not define the group itself'''. ] (]) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. ] (]) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. ] (]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
I started working on the article on 5 December. As I had feared, the job turned out to be substantial, requiring a considerable amount of research, and I only finished it on December 13. Throughout, I gave reasons for my edits, both in edit summaries and at the article's ]. Not once during the entire 9-day period I was editing the article did Jalapenos express the slightest concern about any of my edits, or make a single revert or edit himself, apart from one minor tweak to a header.
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning Lemabeta===
When I finished, I checked with Jalapenos to ensure he had no concerns with my edits. Jalapenos' reply at my talk page was as follows:
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
-->
* I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under ] from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". ] (] • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:<br><nowiki>;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]</nowiki><br><nowiki><!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---></nowiki> ] (]/]) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*{{tq| Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed"}} @]: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. ] (]/]) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Note that I've deleted ] as a clear G5 violation. I think ] is a bit more of a questionable G5. ] (]/]) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared&nbsp;... traditions" and "shared&nbsp;... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". ] (]/]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. ] (]/]) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. ] (]/]) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. ] (]/]) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: They were "reviously given&nbsp;... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. ] (]/]) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
* {{re|Lemabeta}} Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words {{tqq| highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity}}. There's a reason we use the words "]" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?){{pb}}This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*{{u|EF5}}, I don't understand your {{tq|"Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above"}} statement, can you please explain what it refers to? ]? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
:That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by ]. I'll AGF that they ''were'' accidental, but OTOH, they surely ''ought'' to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? ] &#124; ] 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
::{{u|EF5}}, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are ], and the block log only logs blocks. ] &#124; ] 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
*It seems that the general consensus here is to treat this as a final warning, and Lemabeta has acknowledged it as such. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within the next day or so, I will close as such. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 01:16, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==Boy shekhar==
''I have no objections to the article in its current form that exceed the usual disagreements between editors. I think it should go to DYK.''
{{hat
| result = Blocked by Rosguill as a regular administrative action. ] (]) 23:57, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Boy shekhar===
I took this statement, along with his failure to raise any concerns over the previous nine days, as confirmation that he had no substantial concerns about my edits, and on that basis, I withdrew my objection to its promotion at DYK, in spite of the fact that I was still very dissatisfied with the article. The article was promoted to the queue shortly afterward.
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Daniel Quinlan}} 06:34, 11 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Boy shekhar}}<p>{{ds/log|Boy shekhar}}</p>
Yesterday, I returned to Misplaced Pages to find the article has come and gone on the mainpage. To my astonishment, I found that in a series of edits, Jalapenos with a little help from Mbz had reverted almost all my edits pertaining to Israel in the article, essentially restoring in its entirety the original version to which I (and a number of other users) had strenuously objected 9 days before. Once again, Jalapenos left his series of edits to the very last moment, only beginning them a few minutes after the article appeared on the mainpage, leaving the least possible time for those edits to be challenged.


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
I submit that this behaviour of Jalapenos represents a transparent and egregious breach of ], in particular example 9 of the guideline, I quote:


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
''Bad faith negotiating – Luring other editors into a compromise by making a concession, only to withhold that concession after the other side has compromised''.
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
That is precisely what Jalapenos has done in this case. He allowed me to sweat over his article for more than a week in trying to bring it up to scratch, with not a single complaint, assured me at the end of the process that he had ''no objections to the article in its current form'' - and then just made wholesale reverts the minute the article appeared on the mainpage.
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
*{{diff2|1268704307|This edit}} violates the topic ban because it is in the topic area. It's also based on an unreliable source and the section header includes a derogatory term.


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
This series of edits by Jalapenos also represents a blatant, and indeed successful, attempt to subvert DYK's established article review process. Jalapenos ''knew'' that his version of the article was heading for rejection at ]; he allowed me to bring it to a condition in which it could be approved, only to revert to the earlier contentious version once it made it to the main page.
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
*{{diff2|972891251|Here}} is the topic ban for {{tpq|persistent insertion of ], use of unreliable sources or no sources at all, and ]}}.


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
To list just some of his reverts, all made just after midnight 14 December, a few minutes after the article appeared on the main page: <br/>
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
* 6 December: I remove material with the edit summary ''dershowitz is not a reliable source''.
* 14 December: J. restores dershowitz. *Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin|Doug Weller}}.
* 6 December: I removed Gordon as a "partisan source". *Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on (see the system log linked to above).
* 14 December: J. restores Gordon.
* 6 December: I remove dershowitz from lead as ].
* 14 December: J. restores Dershowitz to lead.
* 6 December: I refactor Katz.
* 14 December: J. restores "fuller version of Katz".
* 6 December: I add ref. to Goldstone report.
* 14 December: J. removes ref. to Goldstone report.
* 9 December: I remove Kalder from lead per talk page concerns.
* 14 December: J. restores Kalder to lead over talk page consensus.
* 9 December: I remove Oren per talk page concerns.
* 14 December: J. restores Oren over talk page consensus.


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
Jalapenos ''knew'' that all this content was contested, but restored it all anyway - 15 minutes after the article appeared on the main page.
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
*I've edited the article so I am involved. ] (]) 06:34, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|Vanamonde93}} No, I don't think you're being too harsh. I think you're right. My thinking was that if I was uninvolved, I would have blocked them under ] so I sleepily submitted it here last night instead of ANI, which is what I should have done. ] (])


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
Finally, a look through Jalapenos' talk pages reveals that his main contribution to the encyclopedia appears to be as the author of a string of articles which have been nominated for AFD, most of them being deleted for lack of notability and many with POV concerns, as follows:
*
* ] - deleted
* ] - keep
* ] - deleted
* ] - deleted, overturned at DRV
* ] - keep
* ] - deleted
* ] - deleted
* ] - merged
* ] - "keep for now"
* ] - delete

I am therefore requesting a substantial topic ban for this user. ] (]) 05:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ''The requesting user is asked to notify the user against whom this request is directed of it, and then to replace this text with a ] of that notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise.''

{{hab}}

====Short version of evidence====

Since some users have complained that my evidence is too long, here's the short version:

* November 23: Jalapenos do exist self noms an article, ], at DYK.
* November 24: The article is ].
* December 3: The AFD is closed as ''keep'', but 14 out of 22 users express concerns about the content of the article.
* Discussion about whether or not to promote the article to the mainpage continues at DYK. After a number of people including myself express POV concerns about the article's content, I eventually reluctantly agree to work with Jalapenos to try and fix the problems. The complete discussion at DYK can be read .
* December 6: I start working on the article.
* December 6: I remove Dershowitz from lead as '']''.
* December 6: I remove Dershowitz as ''not a reliable source''.
* December 6: I remove Gordon as a ''partisan source''.
* December 6: I refactor Katz.
* December 6: I add some info about the Goldstone Report for balance.
* December 7: Philip Baird Shearer (PBS) complains about some of the article's content under two different headers, the complete discussions can be read ] and ].
* December 8: I leave a note at DYK stating that a new user is complaining about the article content.
*December 8: Jalapenos responds to my note at DYK as follows: ''I don't see any "holdup" or a new user objecting to any content. I see PBS objecting to section headings recently added by you. I tend to agree with his assessment that your additions are WP:SYNTH, but it's only section headings, no big deal.'' Note that he doesn't mention any of my previous deletions. He just says the dispute between me and PBS is "no big deal", and that he sees no reason for a "holdup", ie he sees no substantive disagreements that would stop the article being promoted at DYK.
* December 9: After a discussion between PBS and myself on the article's talk page, I agree that Kaldor is a dubious source, and remove her from the article lede.
* December 9: After another discussion with PBS on the talk page, I agree with PBS that Oren is also a dubious source and replace him with a better and more comprehensive source.
* December 9-13: I add a whole bunch more stuff about some other wars to the article.
* December 12: I notify Jalapenos that I am just about done editing the article. Since he hasn't participated in talk page discussion or challenged any of my edits over the last six days, I ask him to confirm that the content as it stands is acceptable to him. He replies: ''I have no objections to the article in its current form that exceed the usual disagreements between editors. I think it should go to DYK.''
* December 12: Jalapenos also leaves a note at the DYK discussion: ''Let's do this. After making his own changes to the article, Gatoclass has told me that he thinks it should be promoted.''
* December 12: Assuming from these statements, and from his lack of challenges to my edits over the last six days, that he has no problem with the content and the article is stable, I concur that the article is ready for an independent review.
* December 13: EdChem approves the current version of the article for promotion.
* 00:00, December 14: The DYK bot moves the next update containing the hook to Jalapenos' article to the main page.
* 00:14, December 14: Jalapenos deletes some criticism of Israel from the article.
* 00:19, 14 December: Jalapenos restores Dershowitz.
* 00:21, December 14: Jalapenos deletes more criticism of Israel.
* 00:24, December 14: Jalapenos restores Katz.
* 00:24, Decmber 14: Jalapenos restores Gordon.
* 00:26, December 14: Jalapenos restores Dershowitz to lead.
* 00:27, December 14: Jalapenos restores Kaldor.
* 00:31, December 14: Jalapenos restores Oren.

So hopefully now the situation is clearer. Jalapenos nominated an article to DYK that numerous users found problematic; I worked on that article for 8 days to NPOV it so it could be promoted; J. made no attempt to challenge any of my edits for any of those 8 days, except to comment that he saw only one minor issue that was "no big deal". He confirmed at the end of that 8 days in response to my query that he had ''no objections to the article in its current form that exceed the usual disagreements between editors''; EdChem approved that same version of the article on the basis that it was NPOV and stable; and then, 15 minutes after the article was promoted to the main page, Jalapenos made wholesale changes that essentially restored his own version of the article which had been headed for rejection 8 days prior.

Jalapenos subverted the DYK quality control process by allowing me to bring the article to a state where it could be approved at DYK, only to revert back to his own heavily contested version a few minutes after the article was promoted to the main page. That constitutes an egregious violation of ]. He also clearly negotiated in bad faith for an extended period, staying silent through all my changes except to indicate at one point that outstanding disputes were "no big deal", and leading me to believe at the end of that process that he had no substantial objections to the article "in its current form" in order to gain my consent for the article's promotion, only to restore virtually all the contested content when the article went to the mainpage. ] (]) 20:49, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

:Question: JDE claims that you tagged articles as under dicretionary scanctions ''after'' JDE made his edits, and then reported his violation of these sanctions here, and without warning. Is that right? Thanks. - ] (]) 03:09, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Irrelevant. JDE has been editing in the topic area for two years, he was formally warned about the existence of ARBPIA sanctions six months ago, there's no requirement for him to be reminded of sanctions with tags at the top of talk pages in addition to that. ] (]) 12:25, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
:::WAW! Arguably, these articles are not in A/I conflict area. Were not until you said so. As for warning: clearly, warning is ALWAYS the normal first step in seeking to stop behaviour you find problematic, in Misplaced Pages and elsewhere in life. In AE, a warning is a requirement. - ] (]) 15:58, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

:::: ARBPIA covers ''the entire set of Arab-Israeli conflict-related articles, broadly interpreted''. This article is obviously related to the conflict, otherwise it wouldn't have information about the conflict in it. J.'s edits were unambiguously related to the conflict. There is no question these edits fall within the domain of ARBPIA. ] (]) 16:23, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::ARBPIA talks about articles while you are talking about edits. It's not the same thing. You are making rules on the fly. - ] (]) 06:10, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::: I'm talking about both articles ''and'' edits. JDE's edits fall under ARBPIA in both respects. ] (]) 06:24, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

====Response to Tznkai====

In response to your questions Tznkai - this case is not about the ''content'' of Jalapenos' edits. My references to the content were simply a means of supplying some background information about the origins of the dispute.

There are two issues at hand in this case:

* Firstly, that J. subverted DYK's established quality control processes, taking advantage of my week's worth of editing to get the article passed at DYK, only to substantially restore his rejected version when the article appeared on the mainpage;
* Secondly, that J. engaged in ''bad faith negotiating'' per ] in that he led me to believe he had no substantive issues with the edits I made to the article over a period of more than a week, even assuring me at the end of that process that he had ''no objections to the article in its current form'', before restoring virtually all the content I had removed as the article went to the mainpage.

I consider the first issue above to be an egregious breach of process since it affects content which appears on the main page. His edits made a total mockery of DYK's quality control processes. If we were to allow this sort of thing, we might as well just ditch the DYK process altogether and allow users to promote their own articles with no scrutiny. The second in my opinion represents an unacceptable breach of faith. But both are clear breaches of GAME.

One additional clarification. J. and brewcrewer have both attempted to rebut my case by arguing that J. did not delete ''all'' my edits. But I never claimed that. What I said is that J. reverted almost all my edits ''pertaining to Israel''. He restored almost in its entirety his version of the Israeli section of the article, which he knew had been protested at DYK by multiple users, which he knew I had deleted or refactored for NPOV reasons. The ''only'' part of that section which he did not remove, presumably because he could think of no grounds for doing so, was the subsection I added on the 1982 Lebanon War, but even there he made a deletion.

However, he in fact went even further than that, restoring virtually ''all'' of the material he knew was contested - not only in the Israeli section, but also in the lead, restoring kalder and dershowitz, and in the NATO section, restoring Oren. Kalder and Oren, moreover, were disputed not only by myself but also by Philip Baird Shearer on the talk page, so that these last two edits were made not only in subversion of the DYK process and in violation of GAME as described above, but also against talk page consensus. The fact that he left some other material I added to the article is irrelevant. The point is that he restored virtually all the ''contested'' content, knowing that content had already failed to achieve consensus at DYK, doing so a few minutes after the article's appearance on the main page when he had had the opportunity to contest those edits for more than a week, and after assuring me disingenuously that he had ''no objections to the article in its current form''. ] (]) 07:45, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

BTW, Jalapenos' claim that the article appeared on the main page at 6:00 am 14 December is incorrect. The article appeared on the main page at 0:00 14 December, and J. began his reverts 14 minutes later. ] (]) 09:33, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

====Suggestion====

Regarding the proposed remedies, why not simply make it that he can't edit articles in the topic area ''at all'' so long as they are on the mainpage? It's hardly an onerous restriction, and it would completely prevent any further attempts at gaming. ] (]) 23:29, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

====Response to EdJohnston====

First of all, let me say that I'm not fussed whether Jalapenos is sanctioned for his gaming or not. My primary concern in bringing this case to AE was to send a message to Jalapenos and any other editor contemplating gaming the DYK process as he did that it is unacceptable behaviour. In that regard, I will consider the purpose of this case served if J. is warned against any repeat of this conduct.

However, I must take issue with Ed's suggestion that the case may not fall under the purview of ARBPIA. I don't know what he means by this, but ] clearly states amongst other things that serious breaches of ''any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process'' in the topic area are actionable. J.'s edits were self-evidently related to the topic area, so that's not an issue. The question then is whether or not his conduct constituted a "serious breach" of expected standards of behaviour or normal editorial processes. Obviously not everybody is familiar with DYK's processes but I would have thought the GAMEing aspect would be clear enough to anyone who gave it a moment's thought. If an article has been through a review process that clears it for mainpage promotion, and then someone comes along and restores large slabs of contested content that had previously been removed as a result of that review while the article is on the main page, of course that is gaming. Otherwise we might as well just scrap the review process altogether and let editors promote whatever they like to the main page. ] (]) 10:47, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

: On reflection, I feel obliged to respond to some more of EdJohnston's comments, since I consider them to be quite misinformed.

: First of all, Ed asks: ''This article was created by Jalapenos, but I wonder how it became his duty to fix all the perceived problems before it could become a DYK''. Firstly, if you author an article and submit it to DYK, the responsibility is ''very much'' on you to ensure it complies with both content policies and DYK rules. Why on earth should it be otherwise? Does anyone nominate an article for promotion at GA or FAC and expect somebody else to fix it for them? I am totally mystified by this comment of Ed's. It is even odder given that Ed himself notes that I did substantial work on this article to bring it up to DYK standard. I was under absolutely no obligation to do so, and the article would have failed without my work to it. Ed's question would more appropriately be ''Why should Gatoclass have to work so hard to fix somebody's else's DYK submission''? I can assure you I've been asking myself precisely the same question.

: Secondly, Ed says ''The actual DYK hook was "... that according to a study by the International Committee of the Red Cross, the civilian casualty ratio in wars fought since the mid-20th century has been 10 civilian deaths for every soldier death?" That hook sounds innocuous and does not have an obvious POV.'' I very much agree. That's because the original hook submitted by Jalapenos was rejected as agenda driven, as a simple look at the DYK discussion demonstrates.

: These comments of Ed's along with some others indicate to me that he hasn't been paying much attention to the evidence presented in this case. Ed, if as you suggested you don't have the "patience" to give proper consideration to this case, then I request you leave its adjudication to those who do. Regards, ] (]) 12:02, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

====Response to Tznkai's proposed remedy====

While the issue of individual sanctions is very much a secondary concern to me in this case, in relation to Tznkai's proposed remedy below, I feel obliged to point out that a proposal to place J. under 1RR is no sanction at all given that all articles in the topic area are already covered by such a restriction. IMO it would be just as well to impose no sanction at all rather than a faux restriction of this type, which may end up sending entirely the wrong message. What I would like to see in any remedy is at least a clear statement that his reverts in this instance were "a clear example of disruptive editing" to borrow Slp's phrase, and for him to be cautioned against future misconduct of this type. ] (]) 05:45, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

===Discussion concerning Jalapenos do exist===

====Statement by Jalapenos do exist====
This is my first time here, and I'm kind of taken aback, so I may be missing something. I understand that Gatoclass is accusing me of having violated ] with one edit to ] and nine edits to ], which I authored. But none of these edits were made to articles that were under ARBPIA discretionary sanctions, so how could I have violated them?

] is about a general military history topic. Its only relevance to the ] in particular is that one of the ratio's ]s appears from the data and is explicitly stated by a notable observer to have been achieved within the Arab-Israeli conflict. Why should it be under ARBPIA sanctions? When I checked a few minutes ago, I did not see that anyone had ever put an ARBPIA warning tag on it or expressed in any other way the notion that it should be under these sanctions .

Similarly, ] is about a ] conference on ], not about the Arab-Israeli conflict. Here, too, nobody had ever put an ARBPIA warning tag on the article or expressed in any other way the notion that it should be under ARBPIA sanctions. ''After'' I made the edit in question, someone did put an ARBPIA warning tag on the article. The person was - you guessed it - Gatoclass himself . I fail to see the logic of placing the tag on this article, but that's a discussion for another time. The point is that I had no way of knowing that Gatoclass would, in the future, put the tag there, and I had no other reason to suspect that anyone would consider this article to be within the area of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

I should note that the third article mentioned in Gatoclass's accusation (in the additional comments section), ], which I authored, is exactly like the second one in these regards. In no way is it evident that someone would consider it to be within the area of the Arab-Israeli conflict, its only connection being peripheral. And nobody had ever expressed the notion that the article should be under ARBPIA sanctions until Gatoclass himself placed a warning tag on it ''after'' the edits for which he accuses me of violating ARBPIA sanctions .

Gatoclass's various charges in the "additional comments" section are as empty as the accusation itself. I'll respond to them, too, because I want to protect my reputation.

The edit I made to WCAR 2001, supposedly "highly tendentious", was: "The conference included distribution of the antisemitic forgery ''The Protocols of the Elders of Zion'', portraits of Adolf Hitler, and expressions of hatred for Jews." This was virtually a quote from a news article by Gloria Galloway in the Canadian newspaper '']'', which said, in the voice of the writer: "The initial conference in 2001 included distribution of the Chronicles of the Elders of Zion, a fake text purporting to be a Jewish plan for global domination, portraits of Adolph Hitler, and expressions of hatred for Jews" . (Interestingly, the Globe and Mail paragraph has since been changed online to the point where it does not support my original edit. This may be why Gatoclass challenged it, and if that's the case he was right to do so.) The edit was improper, Gatoclass says, because it "was made less than 40 minutes before the article was due for (proxy) promotion, leaving almost no time for anybody to see it and prevent it going to the main page". Huh? WTF is "proxy promotion"? This article, several years old, was not up for promotion. A ''different'' article, ] was up for DYK promotion at around the same time, a fact that I was not even aware of. Am I supposed to constantly check DYK so that I can avoid making edits to any article ''related'' to an article about to be promoted there?

Next we have the suggestion that I gamed the system with my behavior regarding ] and the process of its DYK promotion. I'll ignore Gatoclass's extremely long prefatory attempt to discredit the article itself, because it's irrelevant. His point seems to be that I deceived him about my position on his series of changes to the article in order to get him to support it for DYK promotion. Here is my position, which has never changed and which is shared by other editors (who are not "one or two of my buddies", by the way): some of his edits were bad, but these bad edits were not so significant as to make the article unsuitable for DYK. I happened to have stated this position ''to Gatoclass'', both on the DYK talk and on his talk page (cited, oddly, by Gatoclass). If I had wanted to deceive him about my position, I probably would have said something - anything - to him that was actually inconsistent with my position. I did not.

Gatoclass's notion that I deceived him also seems to rely on the fairly solipsistic assumption that his opinion is what decided whether the article would go to DYK. Since I don't and did not share this assumption, I had no reason to care an awful lot about his opinion, and thus no reason to try and change it through deception. In fact, seeing at the time that he was the only editor to object to the article's promotion (after I had responded to concerns by other editors), I thought that an article would not ultimately be denied DYK because of a single editor objecting. But I was frustrated that the discussion had been dragging on for so long because of it, so when Gatoclass came around, I happily reported it on the talk page. The idea that I was negotiating in bad faith by making treacherous concessions seems very odd to me, for the simple reason that we were never negotiating and so I made no concessions.

Next there are the edits that I made countering some of Gatoclass's changes to ]. There are so many falsehoods and half truths here that I'm going to have to move to bullet points.
* ''He allowed me to sweat over his article for more than a week in trying to bring it up to scratch, with not a single complaint...'' Wrong, I did complain on the DYK talk page (diff provided above), and so did others, both on the DYK talk page and on the article's talk page.
* ''...assured me at the end of the process that he had "no objections to the article in its current form".'' This is a misleading fragment of what I said. The complete sentence was: "I have no objections to the article in its current form that exceed the usual disagreements between editors." What I actually said was an accurate description of my position.
* ''I took this statement, along with his failure to raise any concerns over the previous nine days, as confirmation that he had no substantial concerns about my edits,'' Again, I did raise substantial concerns, including the specific concern that another editor was correct in characterizing some of his edits as ] (above diff from DYK talk). Even if I hadn't, I don't see how Gatoclass's inference would have been justified.
* ''and on that basis, I withdrew my objection to its promotion at DYK, in spite of the fact that I was still very dissatisfied with the article.'' Baffling. Why is the question of whether I had any substantial concerns over his edits a reason to withdraw his objection to DYK? If he was "still very dissatisfied with the article" he could have continued to object. What does he want from me?
* ''To my astonishment, I found that in a series of edits, Jalapenos with a little help from Mbz...'' There seems to be an insinuation here that I acted in coordination with Mbz. I did not. Mbz was simply one of the other editors who objected to Gatoclass's changes.
* ''...had reverted almost all my edits pertaining to Israel in the article, essentially restoring in its entirety the original version to which I (and a number of other users) had strenuously objected 9 days before.'' I didn't essentially restore in its entirety the original version. Many of Gatoclass's changes were good (i.e. they added relevant, sourced material), and I left them untouched. Perhaps I reverted "almost all" of his edits pertaining to Israel. I made a lot of changes, and I wasn't interested in what country the edits pertained to; I was interested in whether they were policy compliant or not.
* ''Once again, Jalapenos left his series of edits to the very last moment, only beginning them a few minutes after the article appeared on the mainpage, leaving the least possible time for those edits to be challenged.'' Looking at the records, this appears to be false. I see that I made a series of changes slightly after midnight on 14 December, and that the article appeared on DYK at 06:00 that day (]). My knowledge about the DYK process is shaky, but if my motivation were to keep the edits from being challenged before the article appeared on DYK, wouldn't it have been the ''worst'' timing to edit six hours before it went to DYK, when there would have been the most attention on it and more than sufficient time to change the edits? The reason I didn't make the edits earlier was because I carefully looked at all of Gatoclass's changes only on 12 December, after he told me that he was "pretty much all done" . On 13 December I was busy and didn't edit any articles. On 14 December I sat down for a Wiki session and saw a template on my talk page that the article was going to be on DYK. I vaguely remember that when I sat down I intended to edit other articles and procrastinate on this one, and I was spurred to prioritize it by the pride of seeing the template. If my memory is correct, there ''was'' an indirect connection between the DYK timing and the timing of my edits, but I don't see anything improper about the connection.
* ''To list just some of his reverts...'' Indeed, some. The selection and the inaccurate comments about the talk page seem to be an attempt to portray the situation as if I was the only person who had a problem with his edits. Boy, was this ever not the case. Not only did other editors object to his edits, but Gatoclass was clearly aware of this because ''he actually tried to stall the DYK process because of another editor's objections to his edits.'' I'm going to repeat that because it's just so unbelievable. Gatoclass unilaterally made a series of edits to the article up for DYK. Another editor immediately objected to some of the edits. Gatoclass tried to stall the DYK process by saying that the objections to ''his own recent edits'' constituted a "dispute" that had to be resolved. A few days later, he tries to portray my objections as idiosyncratic and against consensus.
* ''Jalapenos knew that all this content was contested'' But only by Gatoclass.
* ''but restored it all anyway, 15 minutes after the article appeared on the main page.'' Again, this appears to be false.

His final point is that I've authored articles that have been nominated for AfD. First, a couple of minor corrections: I am not the author of ], and I requested deletion myself for ]. More to the point: yes, I've done a lot of things on Misplaced Pages, and authored many articles. Some of my articles, especially among the ones that actually ''are'' about the Arab-Israeli conflict, have been nominated for AfD. (Gatoclass didn't list them all. I don't know what criteria his selection is based on.) Those who have had shared the misfortune of editing in this area know that pretty much every article is nominated for AfD at some point. I'm proud of the fact that the community consensus on most of those articles was that they should be kept.

After reading the accusation again and again, I can't escape the feeling that Gatoclass is making it with ]. He is accusing me of violating ARBIA sanctions. Why did he omit the fact that he is the (only) one who said that the relevant articles should be under ARBPIA sanctions, and that he did so ''after'' the edits for which he accuses me? This fact is, after all, clearly important to understanding the accusation, and he must have been aware of it. For that matter, why did he place the tags ''after'' I made the edits for which he's accusing me, when he was involved in both articles and was clearly aware of their nature ''before'' I made those edits ( and see history)? Finally, why did he immediately run here without so much as telling me that he thought my edits were improper? After all, we had recently interacted in a collegial way. And since he clearly did a lot of research on me before making this complaint, he must have seen that I've received compliments and barnstars for my work from editors with diverse POVs (the barnstars are displayed on my user page). If an editor is in good standing, wouldn't it make sense to at least ''talk'' to him before filing a formal complaint?

Jeepers, that took a long time. ] (]) 01:46, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

=====Interim questions=====
# Having read the discussion among the uninvolved administrators so far, I'm left with the simple question: what did actually I do wrong? EdJohnston asks a similar question, and has yet to receive a satisfactory answer. Tznkai previously said that what I did wrong was "riding roughshod over the opposition" instead of seeking compromise, by restoring an attributed statement by Alan Dershowitz to the article when four users objected to that content. But the thing is that ''nobody'', except perhaps Gatoclass himself, objected to the content being in the ''article''; these four users objected to it being in the ''hook''. And, as a result of their concerns (despite disagreeing with them, explaining why I disagreed, and not receiving a response), I proposed two alternative hooks, one of which was then unanimously accepted. (Complete DYK talk here and article talk at time of my last edit here .) Isn't this ''exactly'' how compromise is supposed to work? So, what did I do wrong?
# It seems that my stated concerns of ] and dishonesty in Gatoclass's accusation are supported to some extent or another by four participants in this discussion so far: Brewcrewer, BorisG, Cptnono and Epeefleche. (Original version of the accusation before being "shortened", with my response, here: .) But, as of now, I don't see any treatment of these concerns in the uninvolved admin section. I'm wondering if we can expect to see any treatment of this before the case is closed.
] (]) 20:43, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

=====Comment on Tznkai's response=====
To my mind, the response reflects and relies on a misunderstanding of what happened at the DYK talk page. The opposition to the hook was clearly an application of a standard that does not and could not apply to article content. Specifically, the standard that a significant view published in a reliable source should not be in a hook if it is partisan or arguably partisan. However, ] directs editors writing '''articles''' to represent ''fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, '''all''' significant views that have been published by reliable sources''. In my actions at the DYK I immediately accepted these editors' standard in practice as a matter of compromise, suggesting an alternative that was unanimously accepted, and upon reflection accepted it in principle as well. In my actions at the article I operated according to a clear and consistent principle of including all significant views on the topic of the article published in reliable sources (and available online), according to ]. None of my edits to the article were contrary to any view expressed by any editor other than Gatoclass, either on the article talk page or on the DYK talk page. The question "so what did I actually do wrong?", the core of this whole affair, still stands. ] (]) 12:40, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

====Statement by EdChem====
I was the editor who approved the DYK nomination and hook. I did so having previously expressed severe reservations about the article and its content. When I approved the hook, I checked to see that the material in the article that concerned me had been brought into compliance with policy. I congratulated Gatoclass on his work and also added a DYKmake credit for him, in recognition of the work he describes above. I would not have approved the nomination with the article changes that were subsequently made in place, and I consider the actions of Jalapenos do exist to be very poor editing behaviour. ] (]) 11:03, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
<br /><br />
Follow Up, having read Jalapenos do exist's (JDE's) post, and having thought further...
* I am not sure that this is the right place for dealing with the issues raised by JDE's actions &ndash; as in, whether ARBPIA provides the most apposite framework &ndash; but I am sure his actions call for a response.
* I dispute JDE's claim that only Gatoclass raised objections. In at ] on the nomination of the civilian casualty ratio article, I noted that there were three ], on the page. I now know that they were added by Gatoclass, and were removed shortly after by JDE, but was not so aware when I posted my comment. However, my edit summary ("with three dispute tags (justified ones), not a chance this is going to get cleaned up in time") makes it perfectly clear that I was not just taking the presence of the tags as evidence of neutrality problems, but I had independently formed the view they were appropriate tags. As for timing, the nomination was already 13 days old at the time, hence my view that the problems would not be addressed quickly enough for DYK.
* The AfD contains plenty of comments indicating concerns about POV, separate from those expressed by Gatoclass.
* From my perspective, the article had two major flaws. The first was that it was not global in its coverage, devoting something more than half the article to Israeli / Palestinian / Middle Eastern issues. The second was that its presentation of Israeli material (especially) was not neutral. Gatoclass' changes addressed both of these problems, and the reversion / changes JDE made after the DYK nomination was approved left the new globalised content in place but reversed most of the Israeli coverage to restore the highly POV perspective.
* When I I explicitly approved the neutral hook ALT1, credited for his Gatoclass contributions and I indicated that my earlier concerns had been addressed ("I am now satisfied with the article"). To be 2000% clear, I would not have approved the version with the changes JDE made subsequently, and whether or not his actions are sanctionable here they certainly warrant discussion at DYK. Nominating a POV article for DYK, allowing the neutrality to be fixed enough for the nomination to be approved, then re-adding the POV for main page exposure is unacceptable behaviour. No matter what else, JDE has seriously damaged the extent to which I will be willing to AGF on any future DYK nominations of his with POV problems. DYK has been criticised recently for material which we have allowed to reach the main page, and in some cases justifiably. Gaming the system to try to put POV material onto the main page is a serious matter and DYK has a serious issue to address irrespective of what is decided here.
* This compares the last version from Gatoclass with the present JDE version (nearly 24 hours and 25 edits later). I contend that it demonstrates the POV being added. Note particularly that very similar comments from Dershowitz appear in the lede and twice in the text, and his name appears 5 times in the text in JDE's version. The section ''Israeli air strikes in the Gaza Strip'' appears to entirely omit any Palestinian perspective; I have the suspicion that the Palestian view of the Israeli Defence Forces is less rosy.
* I regret that I did not say more at ] to make explicit that I agreed with Gatoclass' concerns about the article, and those expressed in the AfD, and I was awaiting the progress he was making. I did not comment when the dispute tags were removed because I thought it would just provoke disagreements, and I felt whether the tags were on the article or not, the DYK nomination would still not pass without problems being addressed.
* To address a couple of other concerns:
** No, I have not been canvassed in any way either about the DYK nomination or this AE thread.
** No, I am not anti-Israeli... one of the only other DYK noms I have !voted be disallowed was about the '']'' article... I considered the proposed hook / nomination to be "gratuitously offensive", and I even raised the article in a .
] (]) 08:24, 16 December 2010 (UTC)<small> copy edited ] (]) 13:59, 16 December 2010 (UTC)</small>

====Comments by others about the request concerning Jalapenos do exist ====

I was involved with the ] and ] articles and the AfD and DYK nominations of the civilian casualties articles and endorse Gatoclass' account of Jalapenos do exist's conduct in relation to these articles. My proposal to add some balance to the ] article by including a mention that the references quoted in the article had stated that most UN members had voted in favour of the conference being held were dismissed by Jalapenos do exist as part of me "being silly": . I walked away from this article as I've got no interest in being involved in the Arab-Israeli edit wars. ] (]) 11:10, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

I too have worked on articles that JDE has submitted for inclusion at DYK as well as elsewhere. I also endorse Gatoclass' report and would like to also point out made to ] which was extremely POV and unsourced and which they were happier to edit war over than discuss (see ] and ). The made to the CCR article, partcularly reinserting the comments by ], whilst on the main page represent an unbelievable gaming of the system. ] (]) 11:15, 15 December 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by Brewcrewer====
Gatoclass says: ''essentially restoring in its entirety the original version to which I (and a number of other users) had strenuously objected 9 days before''. This does not appear to be true. JDE's final edits to the article appear to have included many of Gatoclass's substantial edits. See the difference in nine days of Gatoclass's and JDE's latest edits.

Also JDE's comment "I have no objections to the article in its current form '''that exceed the usual disagreements between editors'''", gave a greater indication that he was unsatisfied rather then satisfied with all of Gatoclass's changes to the article. --'']] ]'' 14:33, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

====Statement by Unomi====
{{hat| Collapsed responses to comments that are now removed }}
* Please note that the actual ''recommendation'' was given in AE request, which simultaneously resulted in Mbz1 being topic banned for 3 months from all content and discussions related to the Israeli-Arab conflict, broadly construed and without exception for reverting vandalism or BLP violations. In any case the recommendation was for Gatoclass to not use administrative tools to gain an advantage, something which I have not seen evidence presented for him doing. Please note that Mbz1 was precisely topic banned for casting aspersions. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 01:12, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

=====Comment regarding Mbz1=====

I did not intend to contribute further to the AE thread than to clarify the context of the particular recommendation that Mbz1 misrepresented. But now I am compelled to respond to Mbz1's charges.


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
I have previously had disagreements over article content with Gatoclass and Mbz1, where Gatoclass supported and collaborated with Mbz1, that discussion is if anyone is interested, from this I got the impression that Gatoclass cares deeply about DYK in and of itself, as he was trying to avoid a unilateral retraction by Mbz1. Any editor can look at Mbz1's comments to Gatoclass on his talk page and its archives, example: and . The current vilification of Gatoclass by Mbz1 strikes me as opportunistic in the extreme and seems to serve only to run interference and avoid scrutiny of the matters brought here by Gatoclass.
===Discussion concerning Boy shekhar===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Boy shekhar====
As for the diffs that Mbz1 present regarding ], please read the article, it is not long. I think that they precisely show why Mbz1 is incapable of working on articles where there is risk of her becoming emotionally attached - The main sources are which has 2 parts on it, the first is a rendition of one version of the folk tale, and the second is a commentary on it, crucially mentioning that a. various accounts of events differ and b. that the person telling the tale to them, had variations of their own. The commentary also uses language such as ''legend'', ''tale'' and ''rendition'', the article that Mbz1 would have us think above critique has not the slightest mention of such concerns. Note that above Mbz1 says that she was burned alive, I have yet to find a source that doesn't claim that she was beheaded, clearly Mbz1 either confuses herself or drastically misread Moshe Ben Sa adon's text, with its reference to . The sources can't even agree on which year it was supposed to have happened in, some saying 1834, others 1831 or even 1830, likewise the age of Sol changes from 13 - 17. The most 'serious' source I could find, looks at the underlying framing of the different renditions for different audiences and narrator intent, particularly politics and stereotypes, acknowledging that none of the renditions available are 'professional histories' but are rather "historical documents for the images of Christian, Muslim and Jewish men and women that were current in their literary traditions at the time these texts were written."


====Statement by Vanamonde====
I have documented similar willful neglect of conveying the content of the sources at the ] article where she, in a 3 page source used 10 times in the article, studiously ignores what ] and ] presents as: "She did, however have one notable success in this period, penetrating the US Embassy and obtaining secret cables sent by Jefferson Patterson .. to the State Department in Washington. One of them, which reached the Israeli Foreign Ministry in August, contained militarily useful information about the numbers of Tunisian and Algerian troops fighting with the Arab forces in Palestine" - one notable success and it is not mentioned anywhere in the article. I added that information when checking the sources, but I that she later removed it with the ES of "not confirmed by other sources" the gall of which beggars belief considering the stature of ], the apparent lack of sources ''contesting'' it and the fact that half of the article is sourced to ''only'' that particular source, yet was left untouched.
This user hasn't edited for 4.5 years since they were TBANned, and none of their 31 edits show any ability to follow our PAGs. At the risk of sounding harsh, an extended AE discussion is a waste of time; a passing admin should indef them (I cannot, I am INVOLVED on most of the content they have edited). ] (]) 23:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)


:{{re|Daniel Quinlan}} Apologies if that sounded like a criticism of you, it wasn't intended as such: I'm just advocating for the first uninvolved admin who sees this to block and close. ] (]) 00:14, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
Let me be blunt here, it is my impression that Mbz1 does not care one iota for the empiric quality of our articles, certainly not when they touch on matters which she seems to have a compulsion about. Rather, she abuses wikipedia and DYK to promote a narrative that she finds valuable.


===Result concerning Boy shekhar===
I understand that these are "content issues", individually, and I certainly do not expect resolution of them here, however I do believe that they show a tendentious approach to editing which show why Mbz1's contribution in this field cannot be left without scrutiny. Framing my concerns as a "personal vendetta" is convenient, but false, I would take any editor behaving in this manner to task. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 05:14, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
-->
*Vanamonde93's assessment is spot on, the edit in question is the kind of gross violation of ] we indef people for on the spot even when it's not a TBAN violation. Blocked as a regular admin action. Although I will say, without knowing how exactly Vanamonde93 is involved here, this is so far beyond the pale that they could have gone ahead and blocked on an "any reasonable admin" basis. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 04:49, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}} {{hab}}
===== Re Jalapenos and ] =====
====== Leadup ======
03 December .<br>
There are a large number of editors raising concerns regarding npov specifically regarding the presentation of Israel, both at the AfD and at DYK.


==שלומית ליר==
According to the :
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning שלומית ליר===
17:39, 12 December 2010 (UTC) Jalapenos states: "Let's do this. After making his own changes to the article, Gatoclass has told me that he thinks it should be promoted. So do I. Jalapenos do exist (talk) 17:39, 12 December 2010 (UTC)", at that point the article looks like .
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Smallangryplanet}} 17:24, 11 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|שלומית ליר}}<p>{{ds/log|שלומית ליר}}</p>
19:58, 12 December 2010 (UTC) Mbz1 states: "I see no problems with the article. It should be promoted.--Mbz1 (talk) 19:58, 12 December 2010 (UTC)"
:It would almost be ABF to not understand that as Mbz1 and Jalapenos considering it in a state where it can be considered stable. No tags are added, no concerns seem raised on the article talk page at or around that time.


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
10:45, 13 December 2010 ] accepts the article on behalf of DYK stating: "I am now satisfied with the article and with ALT1 about the international red cross. I have also added a DYKmake for Gatoclass, who has made a substantial contribution to the article. EdChem (talk) 10:45, 13 December 2010 (UTC)".
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation of ''how'' these edits violate it :


ShlomitLir (שלומית ליר) created their account back in 2014. The breakdown of their edits is as follows:
At that point the article looks like .


*2014 to 2016: no edits.
The diff between the state of when Jalapenos intimated consent and EdChem granted DYK is
*2017 to 2019: 1 edit per year. None related to PIA.
*2022: 7 edits. Mostly in their userspace.
*2023: 21 edits. Again, mostly in their userspace. Made two edits in the talk page of ] complaining about its content and calling it .
* 2024: Started editing after a 10 month break at the end of October.
**Made 51 edits in October and 81 edits in November (copyedits, adding links, minor edits).
**In December, that number rose up to almost 400, including 116 in December 6 alone and 98 in December 7. Became ECR that day.
**Immediately switched to editing in PIA, namely in the ] article where they with an unclear image with a dubious caption, and without providing a reason why.
**They also edited the ] article, with a caption not supported by the source (replaced by yet with a contextless caption when the previous image was removed) and WP:UNDUE content .
**they also in the second AfD for ] despite never having interacted with that article or its previous AfD. They have barely surpassed 500 edits, but the gaming is obvious, highlighted by the sudden switch to editing in PIA.


More importantly, there's the issue of POV pushing. I came across authored by them on Ynet, once again complaining about what they perceive as an anti Israeli bias on Misplaced Pages. They have also authored a report for the World Jewish Congress covering the same topic. The report can be seen in full . I think that someone with this clear POV agenda shouldn't be near the topic.
====== Thoughts on Jalapenos Comments ======
Jalapenos seems to plead ignorance on the requirement that articles to be shown on the frontpage are relatively stable and uncontested, this seems an unlikely condition as he, at the very least, must have read "The article has three dispute tags, and the DYK rules disallow any dispute tags in articles going to the main page. EdChem (talk) 11:16, 5 December 2010 (UTC)" on the DYK thread, reinserting information that he knew was contested prior to a discussion that settled the matter would certainly achieve that.
Jalapenos writes above "Again, I did raise substantial concerns, including the specific concern that another editor was correct in characterizing some of his edits as WP:SYNTH", but submits only: <br>
"I don't see any "holdup" or a new user objecting to any content. I see PBS objecting to section headings recently added by you. I tend to agree with his assessment that your additions are ], but it's only section headings, no big deal. ] (])". <br>
Note that the synth was regarding whether to characterize some of them as conventional vs asymmetric.


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
At which point the article looks like <br>
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
and<br>
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on and re-iterated on (see the system log linked to above).
"I have no objections to the article in its current form that exceed the usual disagreements between editors. I think it should go to DYK. ] (])", as mentioned above.
*Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin|Femke}}.


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
At no point in this period is "Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harward Law School" in the article, much less the lede, no additional content has been offered for discussion, none have been boldly edited in. Not a single comment regarding specific issues that Jalapenos, or Mbz1 wanted addressed seems to have been forwarded. The ''substantial concerns'' seem to have been the ''no big deal'' headings.
Adding some additional comments on 2025-01-16: On top of POV issues, the user has a number of tweets that appear to be a , , , and . They've also been . If this - combined with the tweets, the forms, the op-ed and the report to the WJC, all under this user's name (that they also use to edit Misplaced Pages - this is ) isn't a clear cut case of canvassing, I don't know what is. ] (]) 20:00, 16 January 2025 (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
Yet, 8 days after the Dershowitz section was Jalapenos , minutes after the article is on the frontpage. Note that Jalapenos did not argue against Carwils objection to Dershowitz at the AfD, he did not contest the removal by Gatoclass nor the specific issues that spurred it. The same goes for the remaining edits that are plain to see from the recent edit history, I see no point to analyze them individually other than to say that they do in fact support Jalapenos statement of "Perhaps I reverted "almost all" of his edits pertaining to Israel." - all content related changes were to Israeli related sections, and the majority went directly against concerns raised at AfD and DYK, as well as the talk page itself.
<i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 08:54, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
;Comment re proposed remedy
I find it welcome that new options for remedies are explored, I do think that it will leave the parties that felt directly wronged in this unsatisfied, I know I would ;) Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see how it ends, so how can I not support it. Welcome to the ARBPIA grind Tznkai. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 19:12, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


===Discussion concerning שלומית ליר===
;Comment re what could be a better remedy
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
The proposed one. Have a look at the state of the article .
Compare that to the current, which was the state that it was in when it was on the frontpage, the material relating to Israel is nearly identical, terrorists has become millitants, at least in some cases, and the lede has become slightly more fluffed, that is *all*. None of the issues raised at , were addressed, at least not long enough that it mattered for the viewers that now might be led to believe that this is the standard to which we hold ourselves.
If we really think that this is a Hanlons razor issue, we should likely issue a topic ban out of sheer ] concerns. If on the other hand we accept that the user had no intentions of letting other people influence the parts of the article that they were concerned with, and that they also did it solely for the purpose of maximizing exposure, (as he would know they would be reverted when discovered) then where are we at? <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 20:47, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by שלומית ליר====
;Comment Re EdJohnston writing: "This article was created by Jalapenos, but I wonder how it became his duty to fix all the perceived problems before it could become a DYK."
I believe contents of this filing to be in clear policy violation and have reached out to the arbitration committee for further clarification before commenting further.] (]) 14:34, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
: I was given clarification from an admin regarding my concerns and will now be drafting a response. Thank you for your patience. ] (]) 21:19, 18 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by Thebiguglyalien====
The DYK process concerns both the hook, but also the article as it will have maximum exposure on behalf of wikipedia. It was not Jalapenos responsibility to fix them, it was not ''anyones'' responsibility, but as shown , if the issues were not fixed then it would simply not be suitable for displaying on the main page, by consensus of the editors there as noted by Schwede66. Gatoclass took it upon himself to fix the issues, and the editors involved seemed to agree that there were no outstanding issues, including mbz1 and Jalapenos, so it was approved by EdChem. after the article has gained maximum exposure, Jalapenos starts editing it away from the consensus version, and after of being on the front page '''all''' the Israeli related contested elements are restored. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 11:28, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
This is the first ARBPIA report since the proposed decision ] and it's specifically a matter of POV pushing, responding admins should be aware of the "]" remedy. The committee is discussing whether to implement a remedy stating that admins at AE are "empowered and encouraged to consider a topic ban" purely for biased editing. So far, the argument against is that it's redundant because AE admins are already supposed to do this. ] (]) 05:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-03-29/Special_report


====Statement by Selfstudier====
;Comment on Jalapenos Interim questions
To the extent that it is relevant, the WJC report was discussed at ]. ] (]) 11:25, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
Jalapeno writes:
What did actually I do wrong?
I think that this statement shows that Jalapeno has no intention of taking editor concerns seriously.


====Statement by starship.paint (2)====
He downplays the extent of the text reverted, reducing it to the Alan Dershowitz quote, when it has been shown that within of being on the front page '''all''' the Israeli related contested elements are restored.
He also stated that only Gatoclass objected to ''that'' content, which is specious framing.
Excerpts of comments from the regarding issues:
* Most of the material currently in this article is a selective, biased, inaccurate content fork from those pages. -- Timeshifter
* Further, dispassionate research, where available, should displace polemicists like Dershowitz .--Carwil
* It appears to be a content fork specifically designed to discuss a particular POV about the civlian casualty ratio in a specific conflict. --Another clown
* Delete, per nom, very dubious soapboxing. There probably is a notable topic in the subject but it would have to be written from specialist sources treating the overall topic, not cobbled together from sources about individual conflicts as this puff-piece is. --Misarxist
* Delete As per Misarxist. -- Nwlaw63
* The POV and undue weight does need some work, but cleanup can fix that, as can the bias towards recentivism.-- bahamut001


I would to like to raise at ], where there had been an existing unsourced paragraph ({{tq|On the morning of October 7, a tour minibus...}}) that שלומית ליר added to ( / ) from the ]. '''The reference is relevant, but I believe it may not verify every detail in the Battle of Sderot paragraph''' (e.g. "Netivot", "Holocaust survivors"). The reference contains a short paragraph of text and a video that is 4:21 long. I can't watch the video in the reference, but I believe it is this same video that is 4:20 long which contains the same screenshot as the reference, on the same topic. Most of the video is an interview of the daughter of a dead victim who was on the bus (the daughter had been on the phone with the victim), except for 1:58 to 2:13 which appears to be a quote from the bus driver. The publisher themselves do not have too much reporting in their own voice (on the video), yet this reference was used to cite a paragraph entirely stated in Wikivoice. No attribution was made to the relative or the bus driver, or to the publisher. I can't be totally sure though, due to unfamiliarity with Hebrew. '''] (] / ])''' 13:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by xDanielx====
So, what did I do wrong?<br>
{{yo|Arcticocean}} I don't really see how NPOV can be read as requiring edits which support both sides of a controversy. Our content policies don't impose any positive duties; they only tell us what not to do. The text of the policy doesn't support the notion that a ''pattern'' of edits could be in violation, even if no particular edit is in violation.
-- The answer is: the same thing you are doing now, blatantly trying to game the system.


In principle, such a pattern of edits could violate the , but I don't believe this board has ever enforced it. If it were to be enforced, I think it should be for more serious violations like the double standards that e.g. ] attempted to demonstrate, rather than mere opinion-driven editing which applies to the vast majority of CTOP editors. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 03:11, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
He goes on to write:
It seems that my stated concerns of unclean hands and dishonesty in Gatoclass's accusation are supported to some extent or another by four participants in this discussion so far: Brewcrewer, BorisG, Cptnono and Epeefleche. (Original version of the accusation before being "shortened", with my response, here: .)
I am a bit confused at these allegations to be honest, I would like to ask Jalapenos to distill evidence of "unclean hands and dishonesty", as near as I can tell they center around 2 items:


==== Statement by Hemiauchenia ====
1. Gatoclass did not immediately add the ARBPIA tags.
This user has engaged in off-wiki canvassing regarding the IP conflict. Take the following recent tweet from the 12 January
:I have to wonder how jalapeno could think that ARBPIA wouldn't cover the article when was almost entirely within ARBPIA. The fact that the tags weren't added is irrelevant and doesn't excuse his actions.
For posterity in case it is deleted it contains the following remarks: {{quote|If you can't handle the facts, just delete them Propaganda on
@Misplaced Pages includes targeting Israel, demonizing it, and erasing inconvenient truths, from falsifying war outcomes to deleting Israeli inventions and attempting to erase the reality of Palestinian suicide bombers.}}
Along with this is a screenshot of the current AfD ]. People are of course allowed to be caustic about Misplaced Pages off-wiki, but calling out a specific AfD with highly charged rhetoric, essentially inciting canvassing seems out of line. ] (]) 02:05, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
: For those concerned that this might be outing, שלומית ליר is very open about their real life identity on their userpage. See (). If you reveal your real identity on Misplaced Pages, your tweets about Misplaced Pages on your Twitter account connected to your real-life identity are fair game to mention. There's also reverse confirmation in this tweet . ] (]) 02:46, 16 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by Cdjp1====
2. Gatoclass stated that he believed that Jalapenos had no objections, to which Jalapenos states that he did say he had substantial objections.
As we seem to be ok to pull evidence from the statements of the editor in question, they have also commented more recently about () in response to a question of if Misplaced Pages can be "saved". -- ] (]) 23:22, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
:As shown just above, Jalapenos does not specify any objections, he merely that PBS has some, and refers to them as 'no big deal':
{{quote|I don't see any "holdup" or a new user objecting to any content. I see PBS objecting to section headings recently added by you. I tend to agree with his assessment that your additions are WP:SYNTH, but it's only section headings, no big deal. Jalapenos do exist (talk) 16:05, 8 December 2010 (UTC)}}
:Jalapenos seems to argue that this statement:
{{quote|I have no objections to the article in its current form that exceed the usual disagreements between editors. I think it should go to DYK. ] (]) 17:35, 12 December 2010 (UTC)}}
:combined with the statement above should have given clear indication that he meant to revert to his preferred version within 30 minutes of it being shown on the mainpage. I do not think that this level of contempt for other editors and our community norms should be tolerated, much less go without sanction. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 22:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
;Comment re Tznkais proposed resolution
It has been several days. Perhaps שלומית ליר could clarify whether their belief about the way Misplaced Pages works turned out to be a true belief or a false belief so that this report can progress. ] (]) 09:07, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
All of Arab-Israeli articles are already under 1rr. Please see and . So at best it simply means that it takes effect for him even if the template has not been added by a user yet, not quite sure of the net value. Anyway, I too grow weary of this AE. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 05:30, 19 December 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by Sol==== ====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
In regard to the below question of actual damages, I think the idea is that editors agreed to the removal of the POV material only to side-step administrative procedure and quickly re-inserted it after the article was put on the main page which, if that's the case, would be blatant gamesmanship. Regardless of how it happened, WP ended up featuring an article with a healthy serving of POV-pushing. Whoops. ] (]) 06:41, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


===Result concerning שלומית ליר===
====Statement by BorisG====
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
When I read Gatoclass's statement, I thought it was a serious attempt to game the system, but upon reading JDE's defence, I see this is not so at all. The whole thing is very confusing (with walls of text from both sides), but it seems that Gatoclass has deliberately misquoted JDE at least on one occasion. If that happenned, then he may not be with clean hands. Not to mention that there is nothing wrong with writing articles that are later deleted upon consensus. I think there is no obvious case against JDE.
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
:The misquoting is now removed, but it seems that Gatoclass tagged articles as under dicretionary scanctions ''after'' JDE made his edits, and now claims violation of these sanctions, and without warning. Something is not right. - ] (]) 03:06, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
*Users are allowed to have a POV - it's a rare user indeed who edits a contentious topic without having some strong opinions about it. For conduct to be actionable at AE it needs to be an actual policy violation. The misleading use of images doesn't rise to the level of AE action in my view, and judging whether an addition like is UNDUE is not within AE's purview, as long as it is supported by the source. ] (]) 23:22, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
::The articles in question are outside the scope of ARBRIA (or were outside until Gatoclass tagged them so) and no warning was given to JDE. Thus this request is inappropriate and should '''be dismissed'''. Gatoclass needs to be sanctioned for bringing inappropriate request here. I know it's unlikely to happen (I doubt admins even look at comments here) but I think the rules need to be followed. - ] (]) 16:07, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
*:The PIA5 remedy hasn't passed yet, and its interpretation is as yet unclear to me: but in my view we are already empowered to deal with biased editing, in the sense of editing that violates NPOV. What I'm not willing to do is sanction on the basis of someone's opinions alone; they have to be shown to have let their opinions get in the way of following our PAGs. ] (]) 07:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::: If you file a new request for enforcement with details about the improprieties in the AE request, I for one will very happily examine the matter in full and take action where necessary. I am especially keen to hear about the whole 'tagging of articles after J. edited them' thing. ]<small> <nowiki>]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 12:29, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
*::I see some evidence - based on Arcticocean's digging below - that שלומית ליר is using images without sufficient care, but I don't see that rising to the level of a sanction. As to the rest, xDanielx is correct - nowhere do our policies require treating both sides of a conflict equally - indeed our PAGs discourage false balance. Those diffs could be actionable if they individually or collectively violate policy, but I have yet to see evidence of that. ] (]) 03:22, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::The off-wiki canvassing is a problem. It merits a warning at least, I don't know if the formality thereof matters. If there was evidence that שלומית ליר was aware of ] I would consider something more stringent. ] (]) 17:39, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
* While I understand {{u|Vanamonde93}}'s concerns, I think that we are required to assess the totality of the user's contributions. Contentious topic editors are required to uphold NPOV. ] places an obligation to {{xtn|Within contentious topics,… edit carefully and constructively… and… adhere to the ]}}. The linked page provides that {{xtn|Misplaced Pages is written from a neutral point of view… We strive for articles with an impartial tone that document and explain major points of view, giving due weight for their prominence}}. If an editor is ''only'' adding content that significantly favours one or the other side to the conflict, this is incompatible with their contentious topic obligation. That is because an editor making ''only'' one-sided edits will simply not be taking the necessary steps to ensure that the ''whole article'' is written from a neutral point of view. As their number of one-sided edits increases, the likelihood decreases that the editor is ensuring our content is neutral and impartial. Once we reach the point of being sure that they are not attempting to ensure neutrality of content, we can conclude the editor is not meeting their contentious topics obligations and we can issue a sanction. This can only be assessed with hindsight and by looking at the editor's contributions as a whole. ] 20:21, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Assessing the topic area contributions of the respondent (שלומית ליר) since they became extended-confirmed {{logid|166341641|at 17:33, 8 December 2024}}, there is cause for concern. I counted 19 edits to the area conflict. Taken together, they significantly skew the articles negatively against the opposing side of the conflict:
::* ].
::* ].
::* ] which was perhaps casting doubt on the relevant section, ''Massacre of pensioners'', and ].
::* ], therefore giving greater weight to the claims, in a context where the claims were already described at considerable length; ]; ].
::* ], then ], both to the first line of the article.
::* ] and ].
::* On the talk pages, there has been a ] although I would be prepared to look past that (it was like meeting like). I am skipping a few further and insignificant talk page comments.
::* There are then edits to ]: ]; ]. At ], there is then an expansion, again of the article lead, ] (]).
:: Assessing the edits as a whole, it is difficult not to conclude that the respondent user is failing to meet their contentious topics obligation to edit neutrally in this topic area. As the number of edits is so far limited, if a sanction is imposed, it could justifiably be light-touch. ] 20:34, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::: {{re|xDanielx}} Thanks for commenting. Most of the edits do not have a neutral, encyclopedic POV. There is an effort to influence our articles away from neutrally describing the subject without taking sides, contrary to ]. Even if each edit in isolation is insufficient for sanctioning, taken ''as a whole'' the edits show an inability or unwillingness to edit neutrally. One non-neutral edit shouldn't be sanctioned; twenty is a different story. This is not about the ''percentage'' of biased edits but about the weight or amount of them. Therefore, the assessment wouldn't really change even had the editor made some 'neutral' edits along the way. I'm happy to concede that editors cannot be compelled to balance edits of one bias with edits of another, but I don't think that comes into it. In a nutshell, this is about ]. ] 08:40, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*The offwiki canvassing is a problem...{{u|שלומית ליר}}, you're fairly inexperienced here. Were you aware ] is not allowed? ] (]) 12:59, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*:For transparency, שלומית ליר reached out to me, and I explained multiple policy and advised her to go ahead and respond here without waiting for individual feedback from her email to arbcom, which may or may not happen. ] (]) 22:40, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
*I take it that per {{u|Barkeep49}}'s brief oversighting of potentially-sensitive content in this report (]), and then restoration of the same (]), concerns of outing have been investigated and the report can proceed on its merits? <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 19:14, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*:That's correct. I got a request, I didn't really feel it was OUTING, but as I indicated in my edit summary OS is a tool of first resort. I consulted with the OS listserv and received some responses quickly agreeing with me and so I unsuppressed and restored the material. ] (]) 19:39, 16 January 2025 (UTC)


==Luganchanka==
====Statement by Cptnono====
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
I can see how gaming could be interpreted from the actions of both editors. Not sure what (if anything) should be done about Gatoclass but this being the second time DYKs in the topic area have brought criticism of him here, Sandstein might have had the right idea if he was being a little wary. Removing him from DYK or topic baning him would not be beneficial to the project but restrictions on his work (not talk page use) on DYKs in the topic areas ''might'' be something to consider. Not sure if that is even warranted but there were some concerns raised that appear to be partially valid.


===Request concerning Luganchanka===
In response to Tznkai's suggestion, AGF could show that JDE was not gaming the system but AGF can only go so far. You are correct that the insertion of material after multiple objections was a problem even if it wasn't gaming. Since multiple reverts can be a bad thing, as NW brings up, it could be simplest to make it a 1rr/48hr while editing DYKs in the topic area. It will be easy enough to tell if he is gaming if he pops in a minute after two days have elapsed.] (]) 21:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Hemiauchenia}} 20:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:Follow-up: And if Gatoclass is going to be an uninolved admin sometimes but not another as seen on this page then there is a problem that touches on this whole gaming issue. ] (]) 21:20, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Luganchanka}}<p>{{ds/log|Luganchanka}}</p>
====Statement by Epeefleche====
First of all, this does not seem to be the correct forum for this complaint. Secondly, having parsed through this great deal of material, I don't see an actionable violation. I am also concerned with the misquoting of what J actually said, but would simply caution that editor to be more precise in the future.--] (]) 21:02, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
====Statement by Mbz1====
I concur with Boris."that this request is inappropriate and should be dismissed. Gatoclass needs to be sanctioned for bringing inappropriate request here". I also believe that Gatoclass should be topic banned on reviewing I/A conflict related articles. He is ] the system and holds DYK nominations for those article hostages. There are many even recent examples of such behavior.--] (]) 22:52, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
====Statement by MalcolmMcDonald====
Unless there's something I'm missing then Jalapenos is incapable of editing responsibly on this topic. Almost anyone who has defended his conduct over this affair must be nearly as unfit. The personal attacks on those trying to deal with the problem is particularly disturbing. ] (]) 15:58, 19 December 2010 (UTC)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
===Result concerning Jalapenos do exist===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
'''Question'''. What exactly is the harm complained of here? I've looked at the evidence, and I'm still confused. The diffs paint the picture that Jalapenos do exist (from now on "Jalapenos") has some sort of editorial "take" on the Israel/Palestine conflict, which while moderately annoying, is a content disagreement and thus generally dealt with outside of AE until it gets too bad. The part I'm not understanding is the involvement of DYK. Is the argument basically that Jalapenos waited for the article to be linked from the main page and then started editing with his/her editorial take?--] (]) 22:21, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
:Mbz1, in case you didn't know me, and there is no reason you should, I take a very dim view of editors who come in swinging casting wild aspersions and insults at other editors. Stick to the facts, please.
:Similarly, I don't need a blow by blow of past case history either Unomi, and if I'm interested I can review the logs myself.
:Jalepenos, "broadly interpreted", which the Area of Conflict provision is, can include articles which discuss at length the Arab-Israeli conflict. The most useful construction I've discovered is to focus on edits that focus on the Arab-Israeli conflict. In this case the edits complained about focused on your edits - additions and removals that have to do with the Arab Israeli conflict.
:Still reviewing evidence, but still waiting to see why this is within AE's jurisdiction. I'll be back to review in 13 hours, and I'd take it as a personal favor if you could keep any comments concise. (Other administrators can of course, as always, may have something to say as well).--] (]) 05:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
::Upon careful review, the sections from Unomi and Mbz1 are both irrelevant to the topic at hand, and they should be removed. (You are, as always, free to open up a new complaint with all the risks that entails) Alternatively, if their authors insist on making me read through their bickering as I continue my due diligence, I will evaluate whether either of them should be ] from ].--] (]) 05:34, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
{{hat|wordy statement on the role of AE and administrators}}:::Even if I operate under the assumption that Jalapenos did cause significant problematic edits after the DYK hook was approved, the case being laid out here is essentially asking me to peer into Jalapenos' mind, discern a fairly nefarious intent to subvert the DYK process and the goodwill of other editors, in the service of some sort of partisan point of view. I am of course, not a mind reader.
:::Thats added on top of the use of an Arbitration remedy to protect DYK, outside of normal administrative processes. On the other hand, the purpose of these remedies is to prevent or ameliorate the effects of "deep-seated and long-standing real world conflicts between the peoples of Palestine and Israel" from being "transferred to Misplaced Pages."
:::Neutrality is a core goal of Misplaced Pages, but it is not a rule in the sense of "rules for other people," but the constant exhortation for us editors to do our best, whenever we can,to achieve that goal. Administrators are charged with protecting neutrality by protecting the process by which neutrality is achieved: the slow painful grind towards consensus and cooperation. We do not, and cannot in good faith decide what neutral content is, and enforce it by fiat. Such is not only an invitation to the abuse of power, but the antithesis of a ground collaborative project. Thus, we restrict ourselves to the conduct of individual editors, controlling abuses when we can, while simultaneously (and perhaps paradoxically) trying to avoid turning our own administrative tools into weapons by proxy in interpersonal disputes.
{{hab}}
:::With those concerns in mind, my review of the evidence suggests that ] has a topical focus on the Arab-Israeli conflict, specifically the portrayal of Israel, and that this topical focus, combined with admiral energy for editing, threatens to transfer emotions and difficulties from the "deep-seated and long standing real world conflicts" surrounding the Arab-Israeli conflict (broadly understood) and destabilize the editing environment. I am not here speculating on intent or motive, but making an empirical judgment on effect. There not however, enough evidence to suggest a malicious attempt to subvert the process, and the application of ] and ] and simple responsible judgment demands I do not speculate that far.
:::At this very moment however, the Alan Dershowitz quote is the lead of the article, because Jalepenos do exist added it after the DYK hook was approved. Regardless to the timing relative to the DYK hook, in the DYK discussion four separate users directly brought up the quote's bias problem: Schwede66, Volunteer Marek, Nick-D, and Gatoclass. This suggests a critical failure on Jalapenos do exist's part to conform to the basic rule of a collaborative editing environment. Seek compromise instead of editing roughshod over opposition.
<blockquote>It is therefor my intention, as a discretionary sanction, to bar Jalapenos do exist from the repeat insertion or removal of any text concerning Israel, Palestine, or the Arab-Israeli conflict, on any article page, whether by simple reversion, or in essence, disputed by any 3 users in an on wiki forum, with the usual caveats for clear vandalism and BLP violations. Jalapenos do exist is not only allowed, but encouraged to seek compromise language on talk pages. Users abusing gaming this restriction will be blocked.

Jalapenos is encouraged to seek review of this restriction every 14 days in this forum, to display successful compromise, and/or activity in other topic areas and/or other factors indicating the restriction is not needed. Any uninvolved administrator in good standing is encouraged to conduct this review.</blockquote>

:::I encourage any and all interested editors to ''briefly and concisely'' comment.--] (]) 18:53, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
::::Three editors have to oppose him before he stops? It is bad practice to continue editing if even ''one'' person opposes your edits; broader consensus should be sought at that point. I'm not a huge fan of this particular sanction, though I agree that one is probably necessary. I'm not really sure what type of sanction would be best though. '''<font color="navy">]</font>''' ''(<font color="green">]</font>)'' 19:19, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::Well, thats a fair point, but considering the wording of the restriction precludes Jalapenos from reverting the material for the life time of the restriction, I'm very concerned about letting a smaller group game the system. If you have even the vaguest semblance of an idea I'd love to hear it.--] (]) 20:24, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm just thinking aloud, but what about having your sanction that for normal articles and demanding that J. get an opinion on IPCOLL if he wants to make an addition to a main page article. '''<font color="navy">]</font>''' ''(<font color="green">]</font>)'' 22:10, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::::That sounds workable. Jalapenos would need to offer his proposed change for discussion at ] or ] at least three hours before making it, if it is a change to a DYK which is either currently on the main page or less then three hours before it is due to appear. The spirit of this rule is that he would need to express any major concerns with the wording of a DYK during the normal discussion period and not spring them at the last minute. This restriction would not apply to reverting vandalism or to minor spelling/grammar fixes. ] (]) 23:13, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Here are the article links for one of the discussed articles:
:::::::::*{{la|Civilian casualty ratio}}
:::::::::*
::::::::Having dug into the evidence, I'm no longer convinced that this enforcement request shows a violation of ]. Someone with more patience than I (perhaps Tznkai?) might be able to get to the bottom of this, but the Durban III business I no longer see as persuasive. The people at ] did express a lot of ideas on how the article could be improved. This article was created by Jalapenos, but I wonder how it became his duty to fix all the perceived problems before it could become a DYK. The actual DYK hook was ''"... that according to a study by the International Committee of the Red Cross, the civilian casualty ratio in wars fought since the mid-20th century has been 10 civilian deaths for every soldier death?"'' That hook sounds innocuous and does not have an obvious POV. Also the articles wasn't tagged for ARBPIA until later on in the process. It was created by Jalapenos on 23 November and it's been worked on by 22 different editors since that moment. In the history I notice the names of editors from both sides of the I/P conflict. Since Jalapenos created it, it is understandable he might want to take the article to DYK. He has made 41 edits to the article and Gatoclass has made 69. I did notice by Jalapenos on 14 December of a sentence added by <s>Mbz1</s> Gatoclass: <small>"Israel's conduct of the war, particularly its bombardment of Beirut, was heavily criticized, not only by the international community but in Israel itself, where large antiwar protests took place."</small>. Jalapenos edit summary was "General povs regarding actions are outside the purview of this article." That seems logical to me, given the topic.

::::::::It is not obvious to me that the data presented here by Gatoclass show misbehavior by Jalapenos that needs to be sanctioned under ARBPIA. I might change my view if somebody can capture in a very small set of diffs exactly what the misbehavior was. If there was actually a violation, it should not take many hundreds of words to explain it. ] (]) 05:35, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::::::The diff you mention is a good example: Jalapenos removes a description of criticism of Israel because "General povs regarding actions are outside the purview of this article." Twelve minutes later, he adds to the lead. So in the space of 12 minutes, "general povs regarding actions" are suddenly not only appropriate for the article, but belong in the ''lead''. This user's editorial rationales seem rather flexible, depending on whether the material in question reflects positively or negatively on Israel. That's as good an illustration of agenda-driven editing as any, compounded since, as Tznkai has identified, Jalapenos is a single-purpose account. Whether the ARBPIA sanctions can, or should, come into play here is a question I'll leave to my fellow admins. ''']'''&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 06:54, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
<span class="outdent-template" style="font-family:DejaVu Sans, sans-serif;"><span style="color:#808080">┌─────────────────────────────────┘</span><br/></span>(od) It would have been better if Jalapenos held off on the Dershowitz quote. Still, his quote is at least germane to the topic of the article, since it talks about the civilian casualty ratio, while the general disapproval in the press of Israel's war in Lebanon is not a statement about the casualty ratio. Whether it makes sense to include the Dershowitz claim could be discussed on the article talk page, where so far it is not mentioned. The article's talk page seems fairly cooperative.

Regarding what to do next, I hope that Tznkai will make a further proposal. I note that ] made this suggestion on my talk page: ''"Ok, how would you feel about an instruction that all I/P related articles submitted to DYK, that a given editor works on, must be listed by them at ] at earliest opportunity?"'' This is a reform that would best be left for the community to make. Somebody who feels that DYK is being abused due to controversial I/P articles could open an RfC and recommend a new policy or guideline. ] (]) 16:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
:I think any sanctioned targeted at protecting DYK is outside of our mandate at AE. As EdJohnston suggested above, Jalapenos's conduct may actually be outside the strictures of ARBPIA as well.
:Where I am right now is that I'm certain that Jalapenos needs to have some sort of editing restriction within the Arab-Israelli topic area because of a topical focus concern, combined with demonstrated lack of concern for certain editing norms (not reverting to your preferred version). I'm not certain that we've reached the point of an outright topic ban. The issue with DYKs I think isn't the real issue - it is just the case that brought enough eyes on the problem that we now have noticed. At this point I'm leaning towards some sort of reversion restriction, on a time limited sanction, barring someone coming up with a better idea.--] (]) 03:12, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
::As it happens, I'm leaning towards the view that topic banning a number of editors on both sides including Jalapenos is necessary. However, whether that's justifiable, at this stage, within the ] framework is debatable. Also, I'm uncomfortable with imposing a restriction on the DYK process - I'd prefer that a discussion was held amongst Wikipedians who volunteer in that area, and they decide for themselves whether a change in the rules is appropriate. In this context, I agree with Tznkai that some sort of revert restriction could be applied. Perhaps 1RR/week? ] (]) 09:50, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

* I see lots of discussion relating to this complaint, and that confuses me: this affair is really not very complicated.<p>Anyway: Jalapenos (hence 'J.') observes above that this complaint centres around "one edit to World Conference against Racism 2001 and nine edits to Civilian casualty ratio"; it has not been demonstrated that there is a serious pattern of disruptive editing by J. in this topic area. Compare that with the discretionary sanctions remedy we are applying, which is prefaced with a statement that it is designed to be used against (and thus only against) editors who "repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process." Would it be justifiable to action this request with anything more stern than a caution?<p>I do agree that the behaviour of J. in relation to the DYK incident the complainant cites was grossly inappropriate, and I should think that, were my attention drawn to it at that time, I would have blocked him immediately for disruptive editing—especially in light of the high-profile nature of DYKs selected for display on the Main Page. But the incident remains, so far as it has been demonstrated, a singular one; and so in my mind there is no case for topic-banning Jalapenos. ]<small> <nowiki>]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 18:35, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
::* '''Reply to Jalapenos:''' In response to your point about 'unclean hands', please see my remark at ]. ]<small> <nowiki>]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 12:34, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
*I agree with Tznkai that these articles do indeed come under the ARBPIA "broadly interpreted" criteria given the material under dispute, and noting JPE's singular focus on this topic area. I also agree with AGK that the DYK reverting incident is a clear example of disruptive editing. In this I take seriously the view of the other DYK regulars including EdChem, Smartse, Nick-D that gaming that went on; plain and simple it was incredibly inappropriate to stand by for days, without protesting or commenting on Gatoclass' edits, only to revert them once the article hit the main page. The POV problems that Gatoclass attempted to solve, without much if any help from JPE, had been noted by multiple other editors at the AFD and also at DYK (), contrary to JPE's assertions above.<p>The question is what to do about it. A revert restriction has been proposed. I've taken a look through the editor's last 500 article edits (back to September) and have found only two other obvious edit sequences involving reverting . Reverting isn't the core of the problem.<p>I've always been struck that WP's ] policy ''requires'' all editors to edit from a NPOV. ''"NPOV is a fundamental principle of Misplaced Pages and of other Wikimedia projects. This policy is non-negotiable and all editors and articles must follow it."'' Editors need to have a neutral encyclopedia as the goal, seeking out RSs that reflect all perspectives on an issue, not just their own. It has long been unclear to me why WP tolerates for so long editors who manifestly fail this central point of policy, apparently seeking to (mis)use WP as a platform to promote their views. Based on a review of JPE's edits, I think it is clear that his/her editing falls into this category - including writing articles that independent editors see as POV - but then so do many others in this area of conflict and in others. On the one hand, I obviously support Phil Knight's view that a number of topic bans may be necessary, but the highly disruptive actions at DYK notwithstanding, I am not sure that JPE is the person to start with. So I suggest a strong warning and reminder to JPE and all those involved in the area that neutral editing is ''required''; if you can't do it, you'll need to find another website to edit, one way or another.<p>As far as DYK, I encourage those involved to try and sort out some procedures there. I agree with AGK that a swift block for disruption would have been appropriate; another time ] might be the right place to deal with the issue. Or perhaps the admins associated with DYK, who might understand the dynamics a bit more easily, would be willing to intervene. --] (]) 22:58, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Responding to Jalapenos' questions:

1. While they did object to it specifically as a hook, they also described the statement as "agenda driven" "potentially not meeting NPOV" and "obviously wrong." Furthermore there was the comment that "Given the serious concerns raised about this article in its AfD, I don't think that it's at all suited to appearing as a link from Misplaced Pages's main page." An editor working at Misplaced Pages ''must'' pay attention to concerns like this.

2. The principle of ] comes from the maxims of equity, a fine and under appreciated tradition in common law jurisdictions. We are not such a jurisdiction. Separately, my review of the incident did not suggest that Gatoclass has crossed boundaries that would invalidate this complaint or justify to a separate sanction on Gatoclass. And, in so far as borrowing from the Maxims of Equity is a good idea, the balance of the equities weighs against you in this case.

At this point, we need to close this issue and quickly. Aside from the interests we all share in having quick and resolution, I don't know about the rest of you, but I spend the waning days of the year with family and friends when I can.

Because of the split in administrator opinion on this issue I'm going to go with the following:

A sanction that Jalapenos falls under 1RR for ''all edits within article space, so long as the content of the edit has to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict broadly construed.'' This would essentially extend the global I/P article 1RR to I/P content in general, which is probably how the sanction should have been devised in the first place. This sanction would run three months.

In the alternative, Jalapenos can agree to not edit any I/P content at all, broadly construed, linked from the main page for 9 months, in which case this enforcement request would be formally closed without action.

Unless there is a strenuous objection, I intend to invoke the traditional privilege of AE admins to enact measures without waiting for consensus--] (]) 04:47, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

*I agree with AGK and Slp1. Tznkai's restriction is mild and I could live with that as well. He is asking for a 1RR on all I/P *content* that would apply to Jalapenos. This is stronger than the per-article 1RR that currently applies to all editors. I suggest that closing a case with a restriction based on large walls of text runs the risk of an appeal, at which point we will be back here with more walls. Another option is just a warning to Jalapenos, using the reasoning of Slp1 and AGK. Keep in mind as an alternative that we could actually widen the current I/P restriction to be this new version, and it would apply to *all editors*. (That is, a 1RR on I/P content in articles generally, and not just a per-article 1RR). ] (]) 07:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

:* Goodness yes, I suspect we would be back here soon with more screeds of text to wade through. You know that there is a lot to read through when the headers above each statement and reply begin to become so small that a magnifying glass is needed to read them… ]<small> <nowiki>]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 12:37, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

::*I prefer Tznkai's proposed restriction (above) over AGK's caution (below), especially as Jalapenos is still attempting to justify his conduct. ] (]) 17:57, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

==== Proposed result (1) concerning Jalapenos do exist ====
* '''Proposed''', in succession to the above:<p><blockquote>{{User|Jalapenos do exist}} is strongly cautioned to in future always use constructive, sensible ] to resolve disagreements over the content of an article. We accept the complainant's assertion that Jalapenos do exist (hence 'J.') did allow edits that he disagreed with to be made to the {{La|Civilian casualty ratio}} article so that that article could pass an assessment for acceptance into the ] (hence 'DYK') section of the main page. We also accept that J., once the article had been published prominently on the Main Page, then reverted the article to his preferred version of the content—thereby undermining the work that had went into making it qualified for DYK status. To edit in this way was grossly inappropriate, and he is reminded that such conduct is not acceptable on a consensus-driven project.<p>Putting aside this isolated incident of misconduct at the DYK article, there is no evidence of a wider pattern of misconduct in the ], and we pass no sanctions against J. other than this caution. However, we note that he has been placed on notice of the existence of discretionary sanctions being active on this topic, and we caution him that future misconduct on these articles can result in him being excluded from the topic area, blocked from editing, or otherwise restricted.<p>This caution will be logged on the P/I arbitration case ] as a caution.</blockquote><p>]<small> <nowiki>]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 12:54, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

:I support this in general; I confess to being discouraged by JPE that s/he has done nothing wrong, which does not bode well for the future. I do, however, see other problematic editing, including apparent single-purpose, POV-driven editing affecting multiple articles, including article creation, as well as the ] behaviour just referred to. As a result, I propose rewording the first sentence in paragraph two. "Putting aside this incident of misconduct at the DYK article, there is evidence of other POV editing in the ], but we ...."
:I would also be interested in clarifying once and for all whether the 1RR applies to all I/P article content or just to articles. I would prefer the former. --] (]) 15:14, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

::At the moment it's the latter. I wouldn't have any objection to the restriction being modified so it became the former. ] (]) 17:57, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Given the totality of the evidence presented, and the totality of Jalapenos do exist's conduct, I believe that a 1rr restriction is appropriate. This is specifically in response to the combination of inability and/or unwillingness to recognize the proper way to handle controversial material when multiple users point raise concerns, especially in forums designed for such purposes, such as Articles for Deletion and Did you know nominations. Therefore:
*Jalapenos do exist is restricted to one revert per 24 hours, on any edit concerning Israel or Israelis, Palestine or Palestinians, or the Arab-Israeli conflict broadly construed, so long as that edit is within article space.
*Reverts of clear vandalism is or problematic material on biographies of living people are exempted from this restriction as usual.
*This restriction is to run for 3 months.

This restriction is no way a comment on the conduct of any other parties in this enforcement request, nor to preclude whatever actions the community wishes to take.--] (]) 22:23, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
{{hab}}

<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->

== Gilabrand ==

{{hat|reason=Gilabrand blocked for three months; previous sanction set to expire 00:00, 1 May 2011 (UTC), or two months after being unblocked, whichever comes first}}
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
===Request concerning Gilabrand===
; User requesting enforcement : ] (]) 16:23, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Gilabrand}}

;Sanction or remedy that this user violated :


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# Gilabrand is "required to discuss any reverts they do make on the talk page, in English, within 30 minutes of the revert".
# Reversion to version of article where the article says "He is a child sex offender" in the second sentence despite consensus at BLPN discussion that this is problematic because Ritter never actually interacted with a real child.


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
BLP CTOP warning given


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
2-3 days ago a user in these edits removes:
At BLPN, there has been consensus that the version of the article describing Ritter as a "child sex offender" in the second sentence of the article is problematic, as he did not actually have sexual contact with a child, only a police officer impersonating one. ]. Luganchanka has been persistently edit warring against this apparent consensus. For which he has been warned by {{Ping|NatGertler}} , which he subequently blanked There has been persistent objection to descrbing Ritter as a "child sex offender" in the opening sentences of the article going back to at least August ], but Luganchanka persistently cites a "consensus" for its inclusion that as far as I can tell does not seem to exist, with Luganchanka aggressively editing to enforce its inclusion. ] (]) 20:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
: Luganchanka's response is disingenuous and misleading. Look at the ] discussion I linked above. Nobody other than Luganchanka thinks that Ritter should be described as a "child sex offender" in the opening sentences of the article. The dispute isn't about whether or not the convictions should be mentioned in the lead at all or not, it's specifically about the use of the phrase "child sex offender", and there is no consensus to include that as far as I can tell, despite Luganchanka's vociferous claims to the contrary. ] (]) 20:47, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:: RfC opened ]. ] (]) 16:01, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning Luganchanka===
*"Under Israeli law, West Bank settlements must meet specific criteria to be legal. In 2009, there were approximately 100 small communities that did not meet these criteria and are referred to as illegal outposts."
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Luganchanka====
*"Among the legal leading scholars who dispute this view is" "Schwebel, a judge of International Court of Justice and Professor of International Law at Johns Hopkins University makes three distinctions specific to the Israeli situation that show the territories were seized in self-defense and thus Israel has more title to them than the previous holders. Professor Julius Stone also writes that ”Israel's presence in all these areas pending negotiation of new borders is entirely lawful, since Israel entered them lawfully in self-defense.”"


The intro on the ] page had remained largely the same for several months, as you will see on the talkpage it is an intro approved, and reverted to, by multiple senior editors. There has been a recent flurry of activity / edits. While I ], it does look like those edits are attempting to downplay / whitewash Ritter's sexual offence conviction(s). I have not been 'aggressive' at all, rather I have simply referred contentious edits to the talkpage to build consensus, attempting to do my duty as a good Misplaced Pages editor.] (]) 20:40, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
*"Israel maintains that a temporary use of land and buildings for various purposes is permissible under a plea of military necessity and that the settlements fulfilled security needs."


Please see the ], where there has been a clear consensus reached, on more than one occasion, and by senior wikipedia editors, that Ritter's sexual offence conviction should be included in the lead to the article. My edits have simply been aimed at ensuring this consensus reached is maintained in the article.] (]) 20:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
*"In 1967, Theodor Meron, legal counsel to the Israeli Foreign Ministry stated in a legal opinion to Adi Yafeh, the Political Secretary of the Prime Minister, "My conclusion is that civilian settlement in the administered territories contravenes the explicit provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention."


: Thank you to @] and @] for your feedback. If you see the ], discussions - {{tq|14 August - Vandalism by removing all reference entirely to Ritter being a "Convicted Sex Offender"}} and {{tq|First sentence}}. The latter discussion ended on 26th September, and resulted in the intro we had until a flurry of edits the other day, trying to move information on Ritter's sexual offence conviction, downplay it, whitewash it etc. My edits were aimed at restoring the edit reached by consensus, which had been in place for several months until the recent raft of edits with the clear aim of moving / downplaying Ritter's sexual offence conviction.] (]) 06:39, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
*"The legal opinion, forwarded to Prime Minister Levi Eshkol, was not made public at the time, and the Labor cabinet progressively sanctioned settlements anyway; this action paved the way for future settlement growth. In 2007, Meron stated that "I believe that I would have given the same opinion today.""


:: Thank you for this ], I really do appreciate your feedback and advice here!!] (]) 16:30, 16 January 2025 (UTC) <small>(moved from ] — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 17:34, 16 January 2025 (UTC))</small>
*"The Israeli Supreme Court has ruled that the power of the Civil Administration and the Military Commander in the occupied territories is limited by the entrenched customary rules of public international law as codified in the Hague Regulations and Geneva Convention IV."


:: As per ]'s comments:
*"International law has long recognised that there are crimes of such severity they should be considered "international crimes." Such crimes have been established in treaties such as the Genocide Convention and the Geneva Conventions. .... The following are Israel's primary issues of concern : - The inclusion of settlement activity as a "war crime" is a cynical attempt to abuse the Court for political ends. The implication that the transfer of civilian population to occupied territories can be classified as a crime equal in gravity to attacks on civilian population centres or mass murder is preposterous and has no basis in international law."


{{tq|"Unfazed by "Emily's" age, Ritter asked "Emily," "you want to see it finish?" Ritter then turned on the webcam and ejaculated in front of the camera for "Emily." Detective Venneman then notified Ritter of his undercover status and the undercover operation and directed Ritter to call the police station."}}


https://casetext.com/case/ritter-v-tuttle
2-3 days later after these texts have been removed from the article, Gilabrand reverts all these things and re ads them to the article:. And as can been seen at the talkpage, she did not discuss her reverts within 30 minutes after the reverts as she is obligated to do, she did not discuss them at all: --] (]) 16:23, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
She has had many topic bans and blocks: So she has been warned. Her last block for violating the same thing was two weeks ago.


] (]) 18:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : Admin can decide.


====Statement by NatGertler====
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
Editor's edits today focused on trying to main a negative descriptor of what subject believed, despite it not being in the three sources that were listed (nor in the old version they ultimately reverted to.) Efforts were first trying to simply restate the claim, then trying to source it to an opinion piece (problem) from the Washington Examiner (also a bit of a problem, per ]), then trying to state as a fact what had merely been stated in a non-prime article as an accusation. BLP concern was pointed out repeatedly via edit summary and on Talk page. Removal of unsourced contentious BLP claims and even false claims is not "whitewashing" despite how editor wishes to depict it, it is in accord with our practices. -- ] (]) 21:08, 12 January 2025 (UTC)


===Discussion concerning Gilabrand=== ====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


====Statement by Gilabrand==== ===Result concerning Luganchanka===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
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:@]: whether you're correct or not, you were edit warring. I believe an indef block from the article and/or a temporary site block would be an appropriate sanction here. ] (]/]) 20:54, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::I've blocked the user for 48h for violating 3RR based on the report at ].--] (]) 23:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
* @], edit-warring ''to remove'' negative content at a BLP is an exemption to 3RR. I see that NatGertler mentioned this in their edit summaries and at talk. As voorts points out, it doesn't matter whether you're right when you're reverting an edit that is being claimed as an exemption, even if you believe ]whiyou are "ensuring this consensus reached is maintained in the article". The solution is to go to talk, discuss, and get consensus. If you'd like to respond, ping me to your response at your talk and I'll post it here. ] (]) 16:04, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@], if you really believe those two sections -- senior editors, indeed, ] was between someone with 13 edits and somcoen who wasn't ECR, for heaven's sake -- somehow prove consensus was strong, and you think that means you can ignore all the later ones -- at one of which you didn't even respond to a ping, where people were objecting -- then this is maybe looking like a ] issue.
*:But even if you ''had'' been somehow editing to support a consensus you believed was settled, you cannot edit-war contentious material into a BLP when others are objecting to it. The solution, always, is to go to talk, discuss, and reconfirm consensus. There is zero urgency to have this information in the article. Including something negative in a BLP is not something you should ''ever'' edit war over. ] (]) 18:14, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
*Luganchanka's reading of the state of consensus on the talk page as supporting their edits is so far off base that it borders on being a CIR issue if it's sincere. Indef block from ] seems appropriate. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 22:49, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I see RTH's point about the "First sentence" section in isolation. I'd note that the link to ] isn't really appropriate here, as bringing the discussion to BLP/N was an appropriate action (if it was then brought to NPOVN, NORN, etc., ''that'' would be forumshopping). I'd like to see some actual contrition around the edit warring and frivolous accusations of {{tq|whitewash}} before writing this off as time-served. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 15:49, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*::That's fair; I'll strike the link. My point in including it was that, when conversations fragment, we sometimes get these sorts of chaotic incidents. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 15:54, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::Understood, I think that meaning was clear for us here in the admin section, but I could easily see a new editor misinterpreting it unintentionally. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 15:57, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*::::I am not at all comforted by the fact that Luganchanka has proceeded to make ]. The cited BBC source does not state {{tq| masturbated and ejaculated on camera}}, saying only {{tq|graphic sex act}}. As written, this is essentially another BLP violation, building a case that a ban from this topic is needed. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 16:53, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::::Having reviewed the other sources, reliable sources do confirm the masturbation claim (, ) but not ejaculation, which appears to be supported only by ''New York Post'', a generally unreliable source. {{u|Luganchanka}}, in light of this clarification, can you please address your decision to include the claims as you initially wrote them? <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 17:02, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*::::::The detail is in the record of ''Ritter v. Tuttle'' (case No. 3:15cv1235 (M.D. Pa. Dec. 14, 2018)), so it isn't completely made up. But I would also like to hear from the user on this point as to whether there was secondary sourcing here. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 17:32, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::::::Seeing ] here and ], ] at ], I see no comprehension of the use of primary vs. secondary sources, nor any reflection of their past errors in engaging with this topic. I believe that a block from the page is needed to prevent further BLP violations as they have shown no understanding of the relevant policies even after being given several warnings, reminders and opportunities to revise their position. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 18:47, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::::::{{yo|Luganchanka}}
*:::::::] calls upon users to {{tq|{{strong|{{em|not}}}} use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person}}. There are some narrow exceptions (when {{tq|primary-source material has been discussed by a reliable secondary source, it {{em|may}} be acceptable to rely on it to augment the secondary source}}), but adding material to the article not found in reliable secondary sources is... suboptimal ''at best'' under our ].
*:::::::— ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 02:27, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
*{{yo|Luganchanka}} Would you please provide a direct link to the talk page section you are referring to when you say {{tq|there has been a clear consensus reached, on more than one occasion, and by senior wikipedia editors}} regarding the lead? — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 01:57, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
*:{{yo|Luganchanka|Hemiauchenia}}
*:It does seem that the discussion at ] does indicate some support for that language i.e. ({{tq|convicted child sex offender}}) in the lead, with some general lean against putting it in the first sentence. So, while {{tq|There has been persistent objection to descrbing Ritter as a "child sex offender" in the opening sentences}} is true if it means the literal first sentence, I do see a rough consensus to include the material in the lead section in some way in that discussion.
*:That being said, the BLPN discussion had a bit of different tone and tenor from the discussion on the talk page. There was on the article's talk page, but Luganchanka, despite having been pretty vocal about this subject in the past, hadn't participated in that BLPN discussion. They instead grounded their edits in the argument that the article's talk page had consensus for the current content, and nothing on the article's talk page had changed that consensus. And that much was true. In any case, we've got <s>]</s>two different forums with two different answers here, which appears to be what's leading to the whole kerfluffle.
*:Then the analysis comes to whether or not the label is a straightforward BLP violation, requiring us to read the sourcing in the article. , which is cited in the ''body'' of the article (but not the lead), does state that Ritter {{tq|was convicted unlawful contact with minors and other charges}} in the state of PA (the PA statute is ; "unlawful contact with minors" is the verbatim name of the crime). When dealing with a sting operation, PA treats it as {{tq|an offense of the same grade and degree}} as if the criminal had actually contacted a child (unless it's a lesser crime than a third-degree felony, in which case it becomes a third-degree felony). This is an extremely common practice in the United States (there are lots of philosophical questions regarding ''mens rea'' and ''actus reus'' here, but that's not really relevant here). In any case, labeling this to be a child sex offense (or, alternatively, to simply use the name of the crime in the article) does not appear to be straightforward malice/POV-pushing/libel, and a reasonably informed individual might shorten it in this way. Whether or not that is ''wise'' or ''optimal'' to shorten it is the proper subject for content discussion.
*:Aside from the edit warring (which was not acceptable, and was aptly handled by a block), this looks like a content dispute. A heated one involving a living person, sure, but a content dispute nonetheless. I see good-faith—albeit passionate—disagreement. If the editors were to come together and engage in one forum (such as the article's talk page, where this has been discussed a bunch), rather than splitting the discussion over multiple pages, I feel like we might have our best shot at attaining a consensus going forward.
*:In short, it looks like the conversation fragmented, and consensus-building broke down. Edit warring ensued, which was bad, but we've already blocked for that in order to dissuade it going forward. A ] on the article's talk page for what the lead should look like is probably the best way to go forward here.
*:— ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 15:27, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*::RTH, are you objecting to a p-block from the article? ] (]) 13:35, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
*Luganchanka has been blocked for a week by ] for BLP violations and personal attacks. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 18:38, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Just noting that this was a regular admin action and I wasn't aware this was before AE. ] (]) 18:42, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
*::With this in mind, I think we should wait to hear from RTH but otherwise expect to move forward to an indef p-block on top of SFR's stopgap action, as we haven't seen anything coming close to an adequate recognition of the relevant policies and practices from Luganchanka and after several second chances and nudges, I don't see reason to expect them to change course. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 18:54, 18 January 2025 (UTC)


==BabbleOnto==
====Comments by others about the request concerning Gilabrand ====
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Result concerning Gilabrand=== ===Request concerning BabbleOnto===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|ජපස}} 17:34, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
*Gilabrand was recently blocked for seven days for refusing to leave comments, as required. See this from 3 December. It was noted there that she had :<blockquote>I will NOT leave comments on talk pages unless I feel it is useful and contributes to improving the article. This is a sanction that goes against Misplaced Pages norms, since the person who complained about me retracted his statement. I will continue to edit as necessary, reverting tendentious edits and removing unneeded tags that are placed on articles out of some political agenda or spite. I will continue to copyedit as necessary, and add content and solid references to articles. I will NOT leave comments on talk pages unless I feel it is useful and contributes to improving the article. I will NOT take part in the ridiculous semantic debates that certain editors initiate to bring the state of the article to a standstill. I expect the above message to be struck from the page, as it has clearly been put there in error. Administrators with a chip on their shoulder should be dismissed from the project--] (]) 07:19, 4 November 2010 (UTC)</blockquote>This is a very clearcut case. I recommend that Gilabrand be asked to change her view on this. If not, a lengthy ban from I/P should be considered. ] (]) 17:05, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
*Her blocks this year came almost entirely from failure to observe her earlier topic ban - last time she was topic banned she got five blocks. I doubt that placing another topic ban would be useful. I propose a one-month block, and think we should proceed straight to blocking in all future incidents involving this user, since restrictions are not useful if the user is not going to observe them. ] (]) 19:52, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
*I would favor a three month block, given the block log. ] (]) 00:31, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
*I blocked for three months, in line with Looie's suggestion. The violation here is indisputably, and this makes Gilabrand's seventh block this year for violating ArbCom sanctions (two different ones). For this sanction, she ] she has no intention of abiding by the restrictions placed against her. She seems to be going through with her threat, hardly going a week since her last block for violating the same restriction. I'm not sure how many second chances you think someone should get, but I certainly believe Gilabrand has received her fair share. The original restriction is set to expire on 1 May 2011 (UTC) or two months after being unblocked, whichever is earlier. -- ''']''' 04:17, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
{{hab}}

== Per Honor et Gloria ==


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|BabbleOnto}}<p>{{ds/log|BabbleOnto}}</p>
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
===Request concerning Per Honor et Gloria===
; User requesting enforcement : ]]] 01:42, 19 December 2010 (UTC)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Per Honor et Gloria}}


;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ] ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# ] - Article in userspace created in violation of topic ban
# Sealioning
# ] - Article in userspace created in violation of topic ban
# Refusal to ]
# ] - Article in userspace created in violation of topic ban
# Personalizing an argument.
# ] - Article in userspace created in violation of topic ban
# Railroading the discussion.
# ] - Article in userspace created in violation of topic ban
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
# Warning by {{user|Elonka}}
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : The subpages should be deleted, and PHG cautioned to not use his userspace in an attempt to get around the topic ban


This is all after I warned them about ] sanctions, and . Very nearly a ] on the subject. I see no reason to continue tolerating this kind of obstinate ]. Additional diffs available on request from admins, but looking at the user history should suffice to indicate the problem is obvious, I hope.
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : Per Honor et Gloria (PHG) is a fine editor in many areas of the project, and has many articles to his credit. Unfortunately though, in the topic area of Mongol history, he has been pushing a POV for years now, cherry-picking sources, and in some cases just flat-out misrepresenting what sources say. Multiple ] ] ] ] have resulted, with the most recent one in November 2010, extending PHG's topic ban indefinitely: "'' is prohibited from editing articles relating to the Mongol Empire, the Crusades, intersections between Crusader states and the Mongol Empire, all broadly defined. He is permitted to make suggestions on talk pages, provided that he interacts with other editors in a civil fashion.''" Unfortunately, PHG is not respecting his topic ban, and has been creating articles in his userspace which continue to push the same POVs. Note: As a caution to those not familiar with the subject matter, PHG's biased articles often ''look'' well-sourced, but this is an illusion. For a clear and simple example of the problem, note his subpages "Mongol occupation of Jerusalem", and "Mongol occupation of Gaza". Even the simplest Google search on those terms will show that these terms are absolutely not common nor in any way a representation of mainstream historical consensus. In fact, the majority of Google links point only to PHG's userspace and PHG-created images. I have asked PHG to please respect his topic ban, and delete the articles from his userspace, but he has refused. I am therefore requesting arbitration enforcement. The subpages should be deleted, and PHG either warned or ]. Thanks, --]]] 01:42, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
:: (reply to EdJohnston) I understand what you are saying about using noindex, but that only addresses part of the problem. PHG is not just maintaining the information for talkpage discussion, but also because he intends to persuade other editors to create the articles for him. This already happened with ]. PHG created it in his userspace, ], got a few editors to agree that it was worth an article, and then one of them created the article for him. I disagreed that it was worth an entire article, especially because the vast majority of the information came from one source by one author, Rosalind Mack. I didn't make a big fuss about it at the time because it's not an egregious example, but he is clearly intending to follow the same process with the other articles in his userspace, which ''are'' much bigger problems. He should abide by the spirit of the topic ban, which was intended not to punish, but to protect the project, and protect the time of other editors so they don't have to keep dealing with PHG's POV-pushing. PHG has already wasted far too much community time, and he just won't let go of this "Mongols conquering Jerusalem" POV. This has been going on ''since 2007'', required hundreds of hours of work from many editors to document what he was doing, and even more work to cleanup ]. The arbitration cases themselves were especially complex, because of the way that PHG edits. His articles ''look'' well-sourced, even when they are not. So if he tries to push his "Mongol occupation of Jerusalem" article via an RfC, then editors who don't look deeply into the sources are probably going to say, "Looks fine," and it is again going to require the time of Mongol-literate editors such as myself to patiently explain to outside participants that no, just because PHG has a paragraph with 10 sources, does not mean that the paragraph in any way represents mainstream historical consensus. It was my hope that with the indefinite topic ban in place, that this process would stop, and that I and others wouldn't keep having to spend time explaining why PHG's editing was problematic. What I would prefer is that the topic ban be exactly what was intended: A ban from editing in the topic area, which includes a ban on him continuing to create articles about the exact same topic in his userspace. We have to draw a line in the sand. --]]] 07:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
===Discussion concerning Per Honor et Gloria===
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
I think this clearly goes against the intent of the remedies in the case. Working on articles in the topic area is forbidden; doing so in his userspace is no different than creating them in main space and continues the problems that caused the topic ban. ] <sup>]</sup> 01:58, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
:Isn't that one of the things that got WMC in continued hot water after the close of the CC case? If notification of problems is unacceptable, certainly drafting versions is as well. ++]: ]/] 04:52, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
::Yes it was. In this case though the bigger concern is that he didn't just draft articles - he's actively asking editors to proxy them into mainspace for him to circumvent his ban. (And someone who likely didn't know about the ban has already done this once for him ) ] <sup>]</sup> 10:33, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
====Statement by Per Honor et Gloria====


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
====Comments by others about the request concerning Per Honor et Gloria ====
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*'''Comment by Mathsci''' The article ] is a flagrant violation of PHG's topic ban, since this article involves precisely the subject matter of the "Franco-Mongol relations" ArbCom case, a French crusader topic where I have assisted Elonka over the years. The issues of ] and ] and the misuse of primary sources have recurred in PHG's editing, e.g. in ], ], ] and more recently ]. There the section on Μασσαλία was partially rewritten and re-sourced by me in February 2010. PHG subsequently added a map concerning "colonies of Marseilles" that he seems to have created using an alternative account at commons. It has no basis in fact whatsoever: there appear to be no secondary sources mentioning colonies of Marseille. The roughly contemporary Phocean colony of ] in ] is marked as a colony of Μασσαλία on the map: I edited the article on Empúries in 2008 to remove an inaccuracy about ] ; PHG made his own characteristic additions, the picture of a coin and a misleading link, in 2009. PHG often includes his own conjectures about cross-cultural issues in wikipedia articles, even though they are often not supported by secondary sources. His resourcefulness at finding or producing images, particularly of coins or canonry, is extremely impressive and shows real enthusiam; often these evocative images, as in ], create immense pleasure for the reader. However, sometimes his own personal theories seem to take precedence over the reliability of this encyclopedia, particularly in history articles, ancient, medieval or modern. ] (]) 11:55, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on (see the system log linked to above).
*Not counting any ArbCom remedy, isn't keeping POV forks of articles in userspace against policy ''in itself''? &mdash;&nbsp;]&nbsp;<sup>]</sup> 14:19, 19 December 2010 (UTC)


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
===Result concerning Per Honor et Gloria===
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
This is a ] with respect to the topic and their ] surrounding it has been subject to at least one ] thread that remains active: ]. The hope was that they would ] and move on from this, but it seems they either will not or cannot. ] (]) 17:34, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->
:I think in somewhat similar lines with Shell; while clever enough not to breach the topic ban, it is pushing right up against the limits of it. All that said, and I know this is the third time in five days I've said this and folks are sick of it, ArbCom decisions have to be read narrowly. "Accordingly, this user is prohibited from editing articles relating to the Mongol Empire, the Crusades, intersections between Crusader states and the Mongol Empire, all broadly defined." These userpages aren't technically "articles". I also note that the Committee has worded PHeG's topic ban differently than others, for example in the Climate Change case, where they prohibited "(i) editing articles about Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages; (ii) editing biographies of living people associated with Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages; (iii) participating in any process broadly construed on Misplaced Pages particularly affecting these articles; and (iv) initiating or participating in any discussion substantially relating to these articles anywhere on Misplaced Pages, even if the discussion also involves another issue or issues." That is clearly a much broader topic ban than PHeG is subject to. This matter could almost go back to the Committee for another clarification. ] 02:27, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
:I think, here, being clever enough not to breach a topic ban = a breach of the topic ban. I think we can act to stop obvious gaming of a restriction without needing to go to Arbcom for clarification. In any case, this breach is arguable even on the words of the restriction. They're articles. Just not in mainspace. At the least, all pages should be deleted under G5. --] (]) 02:42, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
*Since the remedy at issue here explicitly ''permits'' commenting on talk pages, this topic ban is not clearly a remedy intended to force complete disengagement, unlike in the CC case. I agree with Courcelles, and think it best to ask for clarification here. ] (]) 05:34, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
*Noindex should be used. PHG wants to keep material for purposes of talk page discussion in user sub-pages. But his ] is currently found in Google searches as the #2 hit for 'siege of aleppo'. He should be required to add <nowiki>{{noindex}}</nowiki> at the head of all these pages. (] did this for his ] on Guantanamo prisoners, as well as <nowiki>{{userspace draft}}</nowiki>, which in my opinion complies with all policies). If PHG declines to mark these pages with 'noindex' and 'userspace draft', then their protection from the ban will go away and they should be deleted under the Arbcom ruling per G5, as argued by Mkativerata. ] (]) 06:37, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
**Well, if that were what he was using them for, that could be reasonable. If you read PHG's response and see how we got here though, PHG believes it is appropriate to use his ability to edit the talk pages of articles in his topic ban to ask other editors to proxy these articles into mainspace for him. This tactic has worked once already (which is how I was alerted to these articles in his userspace) - see ] and . ] <sup>]</sup> 10:31, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
::*Per Elonka, Coren and Shell, I can see we might interpret the ban as preventing the creation of any separate pages in any space, but still allowing PHG to contribute on talk. On this view we would proceed to a G5 directly. The user space drafts could indeed be seen as the kind of POV-forks which are routinely cleaned out by normal MfD activities all the time. Since Arbcom has already ruled in this area, MfD doesn't seem necessary for these; we can proceed with their deletion. ] (]) 18:11, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
:::*I agree with EdJohnston, et al here. Contributions and drafts are allowed. Userspace POV forks and ] are not. Deletion. Firm warning to color inside the lines. Extend ban to all related discussions if further problems arise. ] (]) 02:25, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
::::*Fine with me. It would be on more solid ground if we are working with a formal conduct probation instead of an intentionally loose topic ban, but we have to take what we got from arbcom. ] (]) 08:27, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::*No set of rules can protect against every possible type of gaming. Creating content forks in userspace and then recruiting unsuspecting proxies to move them into article space is a violation of ] and ]. The obvious best thing for Misplaced Pages is to deleted these pages. Note: I initiated the original arbitration case, ]. If there are any further disruptions like this from PHG, I recommend applying ] in the form of a siteban. The beneficial contributions from PHG are not worth the massive disruption and waste of volunteer effort required to constantly monitor, counteract gaming attempts, and clean up the messes being created. ] <sup>]</sup> 16:09, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
== Request concerning Nableezy ==
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning BabbleOnto===
; User requesting enforcement : ] --] (]) 20:14, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by BabbleOnto====
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Nableezy}}
I would first like to begin by point out the person filing this complaint . They have frequently left "warnings" which read more like threats on and for people who disagree with them. Nor would I be the .


To be honest I'm not entirely sure what it is I'm being charged with doing.
;Sanction or remedy that this user violated :


I think in general the user is alleging I've been uncivil, unhelpful, and, in their words, obstinate and tendentious. I know when someone disagrees with you it may feel like they're getting in your way and acting in bad-faith, but that's not always true. I've never tried to be disruptive or uncivil. I've , I've that were clarified to be wrong, I've , at times and work together. And when those editors , I didn't provoke any further.
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
Edit warring on ]. Article ] is connected to Israeli Arab conflict.
Please also see battleground behavior and the threat to wikihound me. was left at my talk page after I questioned of the information on the article's talk page.
]. The ] directly relates to the I-P topic area. It was an incident that involved Israel's allies, the Christian Falange and her enemies, the PLO. Moreover, the article is part of as evidenced by , where this message is prominently displayed as the first message. It is difficult to miss.


I now address the specific edits in the complaint:
Even now with AE still opened Nableezy is continues , and Sean.hoyland is proxy editing for Nableezy. Please see that Sean.hoyland filed , who is topic-banned.


1. I don't see how this is sea-lioning. The user misquoted the article. I pointed out the misquotation, then addressed a accusation against me that I was second-guessing the sources (A claim which was never substantiated). I then said any source would have to support that actual claim which was in the article. I don't know what this violates.
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Nableezy#Topic_ban


2. I don't see how this is refusing to get the message (IDHT). The other party is making direct claims alleging I said something. I did not say it. I replied with what I actually said. What part of that interaction is saying "I didn't hear that?"
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : Admin can decide.


3. Admittedly probably the strongest of the four allegations. I'm not pretending I was perfect in all of my comments. I should have kept my criticism strictly to their argument. I ask you to read it in context and keep in mind you're viewing a hand-picked assortment of my worst edits, and this is the worst they could find. Also consider that conversation accused me of , perhaps you can see I lose my cool sometimes too.
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : notified


4. I'm not even really sure what "railroading the discussion" means. Thus, to keep this section short and to save words, I don't know what I'm being accused of doing wrong here.
===Discussion concerning Nableezy===


All of this has stemmed out of arguments over two sources. I have tried to find compromise, I have tried to negotiate, I have tried to build consensus. I've been going through the proper channels, I've been participating in the RfC, I've been discussing it on the ANI, I source every claim I make, for a month now I've been trying to constructively explain my side and defend my argument against challenges. It's incredibly frustrating to now be facing an Arbitration Enforcement on grounds that '''I'm''' not working with others. ] (]) 23:54, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
====Statement by Nableezy====
*:Edited. ] (]) 23:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
The topics I discussed at ANI have nothing whatsoever to do with the Arab-Israeli topic area. Mbz1 should be sanctioned for tendentious hounding of my contributions. The topic of discussion at AN/I was Lanternix's editing on topics about internal Arab conflicts and the identification of Egyptians as Arabs. Not with anything related to Israel. Mbz1's hounding of my contributions led her to both involve herself in a topic that she knows nothing about as well as file this report. Israel was not at all involved in the Damour massacre, nor in the Karantina massacre. These are inter-Arab conflicts not related to the Arab-Israeli conflict area, in fact neither . The treatment of Copts in Egypt and by the Egyptian government has nothing to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict. Not everything that has something to do with the Palestinians, the Arabs, or the Middle East has something to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict.


*:Sorry, the sub-header for this section says that only admins can edit this section, I didn't realize I was allowed to reply here.
Mbz1 claims that the "Article ] is connected to Israeli Arab conflict." and as such my edits to that article are covered by the topic ban. There are portions of that article related to the topic, yes, but it is asinine to claim that the entire article is part of that topic area. Israel has existed for about 0.8% of the 8,000 years that are covered in that article. Further, nothing that I touched had anything to do with Israel much less with the Arab-Israeli conflict.
*:Yes, I will. I intend on taking an extended break from wikipedia, as well. ] (]) 17:06, 19 January 2025 (UTC) <small> Moved from uninvolved admin section; you can answer questions, make comments, discuss, but all your input needs to be in your own section. ] (]) 17:15, 19 January 2025 (UTC)</small>
**::{{TQ|an extended break doesn't solve the issues around understanding policy. An extended break from contentious topics -- while you edit in other topics and learn policy -- would be more helpful all around.}}
**:: What I meant was that I'm willing to respect the consensus and not make any further edits or argue any more contrary to what the consensus decided. It seems to me that saying I have "Issues around understanding policy" and asking me to "learn policy" has subtext that says "Until you agree with this consensus, and you won't be allowed to edit at all." Is respectful disagreement with this consensus allowed? I'm afraid if in order to avoid a ban I have to ''personally agree'' with the consensus, beyond just respecting it, then there's nothing I can do. I still do disagree with the consensus's result. Nonetheless, I'm not going to edit or argue further, I'll respect it as a legitimate.


====Statement by ProcrastinatingReader====
Mbz1 further claims that the article ] "directly relates to the I-P topic area". This can only be said by somebody who had not even read the article. The word Israel appears once in the text of that article, and only that one time to say that "after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon" in the background section. This article is not in any way connected to the Arab-Israeli conflict. It was a confrontation between Lebanese and Palestinian Arabs that did not involve Israel. The argument offered here, that because Israel liked one side and didnt like the other is on its face ridiculous. That would prevent me from writing anything in the article ] because Israel had warm relations with the Apartheid South African government.
I've interacted with BabbleOnto in several threads. There's a few problems, but ultimately, I think they have a certain opinion on what the article should say, and will debate endlessly to get the article changed to their position. I mean, sure, reasonable people disagree on how to interpret sources and apply policy, but I don't think BabbleOnto is actually interested in faithful application of policies to write high quality articles based on good sources.


That's not terribly problematic by itself, but most discussions with BabbleOnto are exhausting. Rather than actually trying to understand someone's argument in good faith, I think BabbleOnto replies to editors by picking out parts of an argument, interpreting it in the most disfavourable way possible, and making a superficially reasonable response ''ad nauseam''. They reply endlessly in this manner. As well as misrepresentation of opponents' arguments, on multiple occassions BabbleOnto has either misrepresented sources or hasn't read their own sources. I can't think of a single thread where BabbleOnto didn't have the last word, or a single thread where it seemed like BabbleOnto was actually trying to understand the arguments of other editors in a charitable way. As such, I think it's very difficult to work collaborately with BabbleOnto on the lab leak theory and related articles. ] (]) 21:07, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
Finally, Mbz1 claims that I "threat to wikihound ". That was not a threat to wikihound you, it was a request that you not hound me. I should not have to deal with your nonsense outside of your usual stomping grounds. Following me around to annoy me even when I am not, or can not, contribute to the A/I topic area is not something that should be allowed.


====Statement by Newimpartial====
To Tim, you request that I say why my AN/I filing was not a topic ban violation. Nothing that I reported had anything to do with Israel, which itself would cover more topics than are covered under the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area. I am not banned from writing about any thing that talks about Arabs or Palestinians. I am banned from writing about or discussing the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area, broadly construed. No matter how broad you wish to make the net, articles that dont have anything to do with Israel or Zionism cannot be said to fall under that ban. Yes, there is a part of the article about Egypt that talks about the wars Egypt has fought with Israel. But you want to say because of that the entire article is part of the topic area? That I cant edit portions on the Fatimid conquest of Egypt, or the French invasion, or even the demographics of the country or the climate? My understanding has always been that articles that are themselves part of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area are as a whole off-limits, even those parts not dealing with the conflict, and articles that are outside of the topic area, but have portions that discuss it, are only off-limits for the material that discusses the conflict. The only two articles in the group that I discussed at AN/I that have portions related to the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area are Egypt and Arab Christians. I did not discuss any material that related to the conflict or even to Israel. The other article are wholly outside of the topic area. Also, as the header of this page says editors coming with unclean hands may be sanctioned, could I request that you take a closer look at Mbz1's involvement? I file an AN/I report dealing with articles that Mbz1 had never edited or as far as I know even commented about, and she involves herself in a dispute that I am in. She then further involves herself at the article talk page. Is it acceptable for editors with who a topic-banned editor had previously been in conflict with to follow that editor to other topics to annoy them? <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 01:26, 20 December 2010 (UTC)</font></small>
As the editor to whom BabbleOnto was responding in the diffs of the filing, I feel compelled to comment now that they have defended (to varying degrees) their first three diffs. I will reply as briefly as I know how to their defense of the diffs, .
:And while we are here, how about looking and seeing if {{user|Tie Oh Cruise}} look to you to be a rather obvious sockpuppet. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 01:41, 20 December 2010 (UTC)</font></small>
Vassyana, are you really saying that whether or not Gamal Abdel Nasser was an Arab is part of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area? And yes, the edits by Lanternix there are tendentious bullshit. Nasser himself said he was an Arab, Lanternix wishes to deny him that identity. But none of that has anything to do with the Arab-Israeli topic area in any way. Please explain how it does. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 02:55, 20 December 2010 (UTC)</font></small>
:But I am not even editing material in the Nasser article. Do you agree that the article ] is not covered under the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area? If so, can you please explain how whether an entry on that list is or is not an Arab is related to the topic area? This doesnt have anything to do with Israel, this isnt even an inter-Arab issue. That specific dispute is an inter-Egyptian one, in which some Egyptians are rather insistent that Egyptians are not Arabs. This is a dispute completely unrelated to the A/I conflict. The reason I singled out Nasser in the edit summary is because Nasser has a somewhat famous line that "an Arab is someone whose mother tongue is Arabic", he regularly called himself an Arab. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 04:07, 20 December 2010 (UTC)</font></small>
''It is impossible to discuss him in any realistic manner without mentioning the A-I conflict''. Really? Let's try:<p>Me: Is Nasser an Arab?<p>L:No!<p>Me: Yes, and here are some sources calling him an Arab<p>L: No!<p><small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 14:26, 20 December 2010 (UTC)</font></small>


1. BabbleOnto is now doubling down on the claim that I {{tq|misquoted the article}}. I didn't "misquote" the article - I didn't quote the article, and I explained what my comment meant in the rest of the (now collapsed) thread that ends . Also, I provided a clear explanation of why I thought they were second-guessing sources later in the thread, but BabbleOnto never responded to that explanation. They are now responding to the accusation of ] with pure ].
====Comments by others about the request concerning Nableezy ====


2. On this they say, now, that {{tq|The other party is making direct claims alleging I said something. I did not say it.}} This is repeating a misreading they made in the original thread, where they mistook a statement I made about another editor's comment as if it were about theirs. In this "defense", I see no attempt to read thoughtfully what other editors say in reply to them and revise their understanding accordingly; all I see is zero-sum mentality and ].
;Statement by (not uninvolved) ]
It is said that "Article Egypt is connected to Israeli Arab conflict." How? The article is perhaps connected in a loose way, such that PIA-related edits on the article might be a breach of the topic ban. But these edits had nothing to do with PIA. The definition of the "area of conflict" in which Nableezy has been prohibited to edit is "the entire set of Arab-Israeli conflict-related articles, broadly interpreted." On no interpretation could the article ] or the edits in question be considered related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. --] (]) 20:37, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
:Well, at least in one instance the user has edited not a particular section, but an entire article and of course ] is connected to I/P conflict. For example the article states: "Three years after the 1967 Six Day War, during which Israel had invaded and occupied Sinai, Nasser died and was succeeded by Anwar Sadat." and "In 1973, Egypt, along with Syria, launched the October War, a surprise attack against the Israeli forces occupying the Sinai Peninsula and the Golan Heights. It was an attempt to regain part of the Sinai territory Israel had captured 6 years earlier.", In my understanding the article with such wording, if broadly interpreted, is related to to the Arab-Israeli conflict.--] (]) 21:10, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
@T. Canens, re the : It is not at all clear to me that articles solely to do with the Lebanese Civil War (pre Israeli involvement), that have nothing to do with Israel apart from very tangential references, are within the ARBPIA area of conflict. --] (]) 22:36, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
*'''Info''' For example I was blocked for topic ban violation over .--] (]) 22:48, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
*'''Info''' ] was blocked for her topic ban violation made at administrative noticeboard for edit warring. Please also note that in the same thread after Gila added her question (she got blocked for) Nableezy asked her that shows that Nableezy is well aware what broadly construed topic ban means --] (]) 23:49, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
@Vassyana: if there are concerns about incivility in respect of the Egypt-related articles, that can be dealt with by intervention outside AE. Or if there is concern that ARBPIA disputes are spilling over into Lebanon and Egypt, Arbcom could be asked to expand the definition of the "area of conflict" to include intra-national disputes in Egypt and Lebanon. But on the "area of conflict" as currently defined, there really is no relationship between (a) Nableezy's edits and the articles to which they related, and (b) the "area of conflict", which requires a connexion with Israel. I'd urge admins to be quite careful not to assume a relationship with ARBPIA here. The evidence points clearly to the contrary. --] (]) 03:23, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


3. BabbleOnto is now justifying an edit where they said to me, {{tq|You have a habit of inserting small lies into everything you say}} and {{tq|You're not adding anything constructive. You're just refusing to explain anything and saying conclusory statements, or lying about what you said}} - all this based on a misreading of what I had actually written - because I was going to refer to {{tq|a basic failure in reading comprehension}} '''''two hours later'''''. This seems like a time travel paradox.
;Questions by <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i>


4. They don't bother defending themselves on this one, but just to point out the actual issue with the diff, they doubled down on their accusations that I {{tq|said a material lie}}, and that I {{tq|lied when said that quoted the article out of context. Pointing out being caught lying}} and then proceeded to STRAWMAN the rest of my comment to which they were replying. If they had read my prior comment with a reasonable level of attention, they would have understood that there were no "lies", just a misunderstanding or two in each direction. But ] again; even in responding to this filing BabbleOnto is still insisting I did things that I quite obviously didn't do.
Mbz1, I am curious about query, why didn't you just ask ] as he was the admin who imposed the sanction in the first place?


It is exhausting to deal with this kind of quasi-CPUSH (not quite civil, but certainly push) behaviour. The Talk page in question has seen a recent influx of single-purpose or nearly single-purpose POV accounts, and in terms of editor energy, this one certainly seems not to be a net positive for Misplaced Pages as a project. Perhaps if they edited away from Covid and US politics, their track record might improve. ] (]) 03:33, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
Regarding the evidence you present, just so I understand correctly, you want him sanctioned for editing ] and mentioning that another user had been edit warring on ], is that correct? <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 21:42, 19 December 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by Objective3000====
:Would you please stop hounding my contributions? I could ask questions anybody I feel like asking a question. Please read carefully what I said about ].--] (]) 21:51, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
Just a quick aside to Valereee's aside: {{TQ|Contentious topics are a terrible place to learn....}} ] currently has posts from 19 editors lacking the edits for extended confirmed. ] (]) 20:38, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
::I looked through your contributions and Nableezys contributions, how else could I hope to get a feel for what transpired?
:@], this is also a problem at other CTOPs, and is likely to become more problematic. I assume due to off-Wiki forums. ECR might just produce more users gaming EC. I thought it would be useful to put your aside into the CTOP template at the top of CTOP TPs. But that assumes folks read it. Walt Kelly said something along the lines of: “If only I could write, I’d write a letter to the mayor, if only he could read." This discussion is likely better off elsewhere. ] (]) 21:38, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
::I am simply wondering why you didn't ask the admin who handed down the sanction.
::Note: ] was just TBanned from the topic of COVID-19 and indef blocked until the accusations of off-wiki coordination made by them at ANI are retracted. Those accusations are like their suggestion made in their statement in this filing. ] (]) 12:11, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
::As for ], and I just want to make sure that I am not missing anything or misrepresenting what happened; You hold that Nableezy should be sanctioned for filing report where he mentions "Lanternix has also been edit-warring on issues related to conflicts between Muslims and Christians in the Middle East. For example, the article ] includes that this was retribution over the ]. Lanternix has repeatedly edit-warred to remove sourced material on the death toll at Karantina and replacing it with a much lower number despite sources disagreeing with him". Is that correct? <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 22:21, 19 December 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by JoelleJay====
'''Comment by Supreme Deliciousness:''' There isn't one single edit here that involves the A-I conflict in any way. --] (]) 22:53, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
At the very least, can we get more admin involvement on the lab leak page so trolling like ] doesn't disrupt things even more? ] (]) 07:12, 15 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by IntrepidContributor====
'''Comment by (not uninvolved) ]:''' I am very surprised how some are arguing that does not constitute a violation of !!! Moreover, another issue that seems to be overlooked here is , which is obviously aimed at intimidating the user! I believe these are the two main issues here. --]</sup>]] 23:49, 19 December 2010 (UTC)


I have been observing BabbleOnto and while there are valid concerns about bludgeoning, I think the proposed sanctions are too much. His engagement in the Covid lab leak topic is driven by commitment to WP:NPOV, which our articles fail to adhere to, and he made the mistake of arguing with editors who were never going to listen (resulting in what looks like sealioning on his part). He's not only editor to raise issues in the topic and engage in good faith discussion, only to find themselves pulled to AN or AE disputes after staying out of the seasoning traps and refusing to capitulate to threats. In a parallel AN case concerning another editor in same topic, I suggest there may be possible off-wiki coordination , but it can also be on-wiki ().
'''Comment by Sol:''' This is frivolous. The argument is that anything even vaguely connected to the conflict is a violation of the topic ban. The Damour Massacre occurred before Israel joined the war. By this reasoning, editors with A-I topic bans could not edit on the US even if it concerns a time when Israel didn't exist as the US later allies with Israel. The Egypt edits have nothing to do with this. If this is how broadly people want to interpret the scope of A-I Arbcom sanctions then the floodgates of meritless AE requests will open as every editor with a grudge hunts down possible violations (ie, anything that's ever touched the issue). Also, all of these articles would be under 1-RR per ] which would simplify this hearing as everyone involved can now be banned for violating it. ] (]) 05:19, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


One need only cross-reference names from , checking those that voted for labeling COVID-19 lab leak as conspiracy, with the names of complainants here. Contrast all these old timers with the steady stream of tens if not hundreds of regular editors complaining that our article fails NPOV, and see that their gentle approach doesn't work . Our chief complainant is already preparing his next case , and this might not be his first.
===Additional comment by Mbz1===
#I did not hound Nab's contributions. I first learned about the dispute from . I have AN/I on my watch list.
#I did not take any part in edit warring in ]. I only posted two comments on talk page of the article, and gave advise to the editor how to source the material added to the article. I also made one comment on AN/I.
#I did know about the massacres. I read about them in newspapers. I have not edited those articles, I did not comment on them either, but I see no reason why shouldn't I comment on one?
#I provided two differences(Please see above for more explanations) and ] . Those were the differences I used to determent if Nab violated his topic ban, and the answer was "yes, he did". Besides he was also edit warring on the article.
#My hands are absolutely clean. I've done nothing wrong neither by commenting on AN/I, nor by filing AE, nor by .
#I am not sure how one could claim that ] has nothing to do with Israeli-Arab conflict. It links to ], and to other articles about the conflict. It talks a lot about ] about Palestinian refugees, and so on, and so on and so on. Of course this article is directly connected to the conflict between Israel and Arabs.
#I'd also like admins to notice a strong battleground behavior expressed by Nab in his statement here and in the . He behaves as he owns not only one article, but the whole Misplaced Pages as well.
#I have absolutely nothing personal against Nab, and when he was blocked a few days ago for a topic ban violation --] (]) 01:59, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
#Nableezy, could you please explain why in your opinion made by ] , no, not in the article, but on edit warring noticeboard about edit warring on ] was a topic ban violation, but your edits are not. Gila was blocked after you asked her: , so you did believe she violated her ban, why then you say you did not violate yours?--] (]) 04:08, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
::Ill answer here. In the comment Gilabrand was blocked for at AN3, she was discussing content covered by the topic area. The content she was discussing was an accusation that the sitting President of the PNA and chair of the PLO was knowingly involved in the Munich massacre. That content is directly related to the topic area and as such Gila was banned from discussing it. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 04:13, 20 December 2010 (UTC)</font></small>
:::But the only thing she said was: . --] (]) 04:20, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
::::I know that. She was discussing content (the source used) directly related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. She was banned from doing so. Now you either understand this or you dont, but either way I dont intend to explain it further besides to say this: Gila was discussing content related to the topic area, my AN/I post was about content not related to the topic area. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - 04:23, 20 December 2010 (UTC)</font></small>
:::::Yes, it was ] is directly related to the topic of your ban. Notice that Sabra and Shatila (spelling) links to it because Sabre and Shatila was considered revenge for Damour -- S& S linked directly to Sharon and the Palestinians, and I do agree that mentioning Nasser in your edit summary is too. Also please see an example (above) of me being blocked for a comment that had absolutely nothing to do with the conflict, and was only about wikipedia policies. ] (]) 04:34, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::@tariq, if you do not see topic ban violation in Nab's edit maybe you could say laud and clear that my block over was unfair? Please notice I was not edit warring as Nab was, I made only one constructive comment about wikipedia policies, and got blocked for 48 hours! for this comment. My first block for topic ban violation was for at ]. How ] article is connected to I/P conflict? And if a small revert in ] article made me blocked only because of the words Zionism and Israel, surely Nab's editing of Egypt is a topic ban violation too. I believe that topic ban should be implemented equally to everybody, and do not depend on administrators, who are active at the moment. --] (]) 05:18, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


I suggest that administrators consider a 1 to 2 month topic ban for BabbleOnto to provide opportunity for him to correct his approach, while staying alert to the tactics of POV editors trying to draw them into content debates to influence outcomes.
*'''Comment''' Nasser was involved and played a leading role in nearly every war that Egypt had with Israel. His forces were trapped in the Falluja pocket during the war of 1948. He was president of Egypt for 3 of the 4 wars that Israel had with Egypt. The Suez War of 1956, the Six Day war of 1967 and the War of Attrition between 1969-70. He was instrumental in formulating Egypt's relationship with Israel for three decades. As for the Damour massacre. It was an act committed by the PLO, sworn enemies of Israel against Lebanon's Christians, who were considered Israel's ally in her fight against the PLO and Syria. The article's Talk page classifies the article in the context of Wiki Project Palestine. This is clearly within the Israel-Palestine topic area. It's not even borderline.--] (]) 15:05, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


] (]) 14:46, 15 January 2025 (UTC)


=== Statement by TarnishedPath ===
'''Sean.hoyland is proxy editing for Nableezy''' Please see that Sean.hoyland filed , who is topic-banned.--] (]) 19:24, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Please see ] where BabbleOnto edited ] restoring previously reverted content and ] using a shit source after they'd been told by multiple other editors in discussions ] and ] that the source was shit. Notably in the edit summary they wrote "{{tq|Read discussion page. Manual revert. No serious challenge has been made to these changes. Methinks an admin needs to get involved...}}" despite them being in a ] situation. If a clue is not gotten by the editor fast I'd suggest TBANs from both COVID and AP2 is warranted in order to cease their disruption. '']''<sup>]</sup> 04:25, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
:Yup, I filed an SPI report, some NoCal100 socks were blocked. Shocking stuff. The horror. The injustice of it and the profound harm I've caused to the project is terrible. I'll just carry on working on nice things like ] and ] and try to live with the shame. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - ''']'''</small> 19:59, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::Ha-ha-ha. In my post above was absolutely nothing personal, but the rules are the rules and everybody should comply with them. I hope you agree with this?--] (]) 20:34, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually I don't agree and I'm not sure which rules you are referring to. There is a rule about meatpuppetry and its role is to prevent the use of proxies to sway consensus. This is about identifying sockpuppets and filing reports to get them checked out and possibly blocked. I'm happy to file SPI reports on anyone's behalf if they ask me nicely and I was careful to leave subtle clues like saying just under the admin's message on Nableezy's page, saying that I was filing it on Nableezy's behalf as the very first statement, and being entirely open about it. If I'm breaking a rule someone needs to tell me what it is, how my filing SPI reports breaks the rule and how it impacts negatively on the project because I'm not planning to stop filing SPI reports unless I have a policy based reason to do so. Nableezy is allowed to report suspected socks to an admin to be checked out. I think he is allowed to tell me if he thinks that someone looks like a sockpuppet and I can have a look and file a report or not. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - ''']'''</small> 04:14, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
:::If you want something more interesting to complain about you could contact The Annex Galleries in Santa Rosa and ask them why they are referring to a set of woodcuts by Todros Geller called '''' as ''''. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - ''']'''</small> 05:39, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Also, have you considered simply asking NoCal100 to stop so that these situations don't arise in the first place ? No one seems to do that. ], probably one of several. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - ''']'''</small> 09:54, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
::::Sean, if the rules (topic ban in this case) prohibits Nab from doing something himself, it means that anybody else doing this for him is against the rules.
::::What made you to believe that I have any contact with NoCal100? I've never met NoCal100. I was not editing in this area when he/she was. The first time I have learned about NoCal100 was a few months ago, when Tiamut suggested running SPI on me and NoCal100.--] (]) 13:37, 22 December 2010 (UTC)


:Noting the editor's continued behaviour at ]. Refer to ]. '']''<sup>]</sup> 01:53, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
::and again at ] '']''<sup>]</sup> 03:01, 19 January 2025 (UTC)


===Statement by berchanhimez===
;comments by umomi
This user was given no less than 4 chances on the talk page to stop talking about bans/other editors and start talking about the content. They have continued crying about how they're scared of getting banned... yet they continue blabbing about other editors getting banned for their bad behavior ]. ''At a minimum'' a partial block from the talk page(s) in question is warranted, and it would be beneficial for a topic ban from the origins of COVID-19, broadly construed. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez &#124; ] &#124; ] 03:37, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
:You were blocked for inserting yourself in an AE discussion regarding possible wrongdoing within the topic area. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 15:24, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


===Result concerning BabbleOnto===
::I don't believe that you have shown that Nableezy edited anything that had to do with his actions, only that he is an Arab. Nor did he, as far as I can tell, edit the Damour article while under restrictions, he simply gave evidence of a pattern of edit warring of another editor. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">]]]</i> 15:24, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
; Comment by Tijfo098
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
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*{{u|BabbleOnto}}, please edit your statement down further to fit within the restriction. This also serves as an opportunity to rephrase your defense, which currently is not convincing at first glance. ProcrastinatingReader's description of the situation seems quite apt, particularly {{tq|BabbleOnto replies to editors by picking out parts of an argument, interpreting it in the most disfavourable way possible}}, which is currently a pretty fitting description of your response to them here, given that you zeroed in on the "superficially reasonable" part and ignored the much more serious parts of the testimony. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 23:37, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Ok, having read through nearly every edit that BabbleOnto has made, I agree with the complainants that not only does BabbleOnto engage in sealioning, it appears to be almost exclusively what they do. The discussion at ] exhibits perhaps even more concerning argumentation than the diffs provided in the initial report. Throughout these discussions, BabbleOnto tends to demand a standard of stating the obvious (with respect to the context of said sources) that is absurd, and continues to lawyer for such standards even when the situation becomes ]. When criticizing sources' ability to account for basic claims, I can find no examples of BabbleOnto themselves attempting to find sources that would resolve the issues they identify--this is uncollaborative behavior. There is a clear pattern of engaging in this behavior across recent US politics topics consistent with the scope of ]. The only saving grace to BabbleOnto's track record is that none of this has translated into disruptive editing of actual articles, just unproductive engagement on talk pages. I am currently in favor of a topic ban from post-1992 American politics; if they are actually here to build an encyclopedia and not to provide a punching bag for debate club, they can use this opportunity to learn more constructive patterns of editing in topics that they are less personally invested in. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 01:26, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*::{{u|Valereee}} in line with their follow-up response, I take Objective3000's comments as potentially a basis for community discussion rather than a call for protective action on the lab leak talk page right now. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 21:47, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
* I have to agree, this looks like sealioning. {{u|BabbleOnto}}, you're new here, and I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt about your ability to learn to collaborate. WP works on collaboration and consensus, and sometimes consensus goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. You have to be willing to shrug, walk away, and go work on something else when consensus is against you. And you absolutely must not insist everyone else keep answering you until you're satisfied with their answers. I've seen editors at both the Thompson and the lab leak talks tell you they don't actually owe you an answer to your satisfaction.


:Do you think you can learn to do that? Because if you don't think you can, this may not be the right hobby for you.
I agree with User:Tariqabjotu, this is hardly a violation of ], and it's also discussed at ] concurrently. Whether Nableezy should be topic banned from all ME articles is not something that can be decided by a single AE administrator. User:Lanternix is also POV pushing on these Egypt-related articles, in my opinion. ] (]) 07:41, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


:<small>As an aside, I'm going to recommend what I always recommend to new editors who end up here: Contentious topics are a terrible place to learn. Go edit in noncontentious topics, where other editors are a lot less exhausted and have the energy to be more patient with new editors.</small> ] (]) 18:27, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
As for the Damour article, there does seem to be some sort of sock or meat farm here involving ] (blocked right now) and Laternix who edit in tandem in a typical pattern of disruptive editing; removing sourced content with deceptive or no edit summaries, for example . There are also a bunch of IP editors making similarly deceptive edits on the same content, probably using open proxies or some other way of editing from seemingly disparate IP addresses. . These series of diffs looks more like deliberate trolling to me than a genuine content dispute. Perhaps the Lebanese civil war, even when not involving Israel, should be considered for community-based 1RR or something like that, so I've just added the ARBPIA banner to the talk page. However, Nableezy's last edit to the Darmour article seems to have been on Dec 3, and he was topic banned on Dec 4, so I don't see how that's a violation. ] (]) 09:20, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
{{collapse top|title=Tangential}}
::@], hm, yes, and ] also has 37 archives, and even with archiving at 21 days, 20 sections. Do you think an ECR is something that talk page needs? That's not part of the authorized restrictions an individual admin can place...hm, and I'm not sure of the policy w/re most efficiently getting that done and wasting the fewest people's time. @]? ] (]) 21:08, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I would object to ECPing the talk page. COVID-19 ], though this specific ''article'' is protected. The purpose of protecting the page (in this case) is to push newer users to the talk page, where they can discuss changes they want made (such as by edit requests) and contribute towards consensus-building while not edit warring. Protecting talk pages is truly, ''truly'' a last resort. Ordinary good faith people would be entirely shut out and silenced—we'd not even get edit requests—and I frankly don't see anything near the level of disruption/LTA abuse that would justify jumping straight to ]. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 01:55, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::::@], not ECP. ECR: non-EC are restricted from anything but making edit requests. ] (]) 14:48, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::I see. In any case, ECR is the sort of remedy that should be reserved for more or less when all else fails—it’s still ''super'' restrictive. If new users/inexperienced users are trying to contribute towards consensus-building on the talk page (or even if they’re doing ordinary confused new editor things), and aren’t edit warring, I don’t think we’d actually be ] by enforcing ECR.
:::::Suppose someone in good-faith sees “anyone can edit”, and they want to edit something topical. But then they see that the page that they want to edit is protected. They read the explanation that appears after clicking the “view source” tab. They then read that they can discuss this page with others, click on the first blue link, and then make a section using the “add topic” button in order to start a discussion.
:::::“OK”, the newbie thinks, “maybe I will find someone else who agrees with me, or I’ll at least get some answer as to why the article is this way”. They leave their computer and come back in an hour. They then discover that their question has been removed by some random editor with edit summary “] violation, user not ]; malformed edit request” and find a contentious topics notice on their own user talk page, all because they don’t make a properly formatted edit request (i.e. “please change X to Y”). Or maybe they wont navigate the talk page history and they’ll angrily post that their earlier comment was deleted. Or maybe they just won’t come back. To top it off, nothing at any point in this process was obvious to them that such a requirement existed—there is no edit notice that says so, and so they couldn’t know.
:::::] is ]y. It dissuades new voices from joining conversations, and it makes it somewhat hostile to true newbies. In particular, it dissuades people who, for example:
:::::#Are Not hardcore/insane enough to deal with intense wiki-bureaucracy;
:::::#Are unable to cope with handling unfamiliar wikitext markup when making edit requests for anything that is not a trivial word change, or who have abstract changes in mind more than concrete ones;
:::::#Do not want to spend an hour of their time to figure out how to say the magic words to summon another editor to fix a typo.
:::::The chief way that ECR works is by making LTAs/sockmasters have to put on a lot of effort or make a lot of edits. This raises the (time) cost of socking, and it has the benefit of possibly exposing tells along the way. But that also means that we’re imposing the same thing on good-faith newbies.
:::::When deciding whether or not to impose ECR, we have to balance that it is extremely BITEy to good-faith newbies against its ability to prevent disruption. There are times where we are basically left to throw our hands up because of LTA/sockmaster abuse, and conclude that the tradeoff is worth it; the ArbCom has done this for certain contentious topics. But, the ArbCom had the wisdom to not enable ECR as a page sanction across all contentious topic areas—there is a very real tradeoff that needs to be really carefully considered. And I don’t the tradeoff leans towards embracing ECR ''here''. — <span style="background: linear-gradient(#990000,#660000)">]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub></span> 15:48, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::I'm don't think we need to have this discussion here and now, but I don't disagree it's bitey and needs to be used only where necessary. I was just asking the question of someone who is working at that article: is this an article talk where it's necessary? ] (]) 17:45, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}


*{{u|BabbleOnto}}, are you planning to answer my questions above? Do you think you're able/willing to shrug, walk away, and go work on something else when consensus is against you? Are you able/willing to stop insisting everyone else keep answering you until you're satisfied with their answers? ] (]) 13:26, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
T. Canens, by your logic, Nableezy is also not allowed to edit ] at all because whether you say something nice or naughty about him ''in any respect'' may (strongly) depend on your view of the I-P conflict. So, if Nableezy reverts a hypothetical edit that removes Carter from ] then he is violating his topic ban by saying something nice about Carter. Correction, if Nableezy just complains about such an edit on ANI, then he is already violating his topic ban. Oh, dear. This seems too broad of an interpretation of the "broadly construed" qualifier. I think a request for clarification should be address to the actual ArbCom on this matter. ] (]) 09:46, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
*:BabbleOnto's response understanding this as a suggestion to take a break from Misplaced Pages as a whole isn't quite what I was hoping to see. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 17:22, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@], an extended break doesn't solve the issues around understanding policy. An extended break from contentious topics -- while you edit in other topics and learn policy -- would be more helpful all around.
*:@], I'd support a tban, but is AP2 enough? It seems like COVID and fringe science need to be included? ] (]) 17:22, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
*::AP2 + COVID? I see the same behavior at the Brian Thompson article and Havana Syndrome, so COVID alone doesn't seem adequate. Oddly, the intersection of "medicine and politics" would appear to cover all affected topics but maybe that's too bespoke? <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 17:56, 19 January 2025 (UTC)


==Marlarkey==
====Comment by Gatoclass====
{{hat|Marlarkey p-blocked from ] and formally warned to be more mindful of policies, guidelines and best practices when editing CTOPs, particularly PIA <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 19:54, 16 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Marlarkey===
I don't particularly want to get involved with this case, but if the only charge here is that Nableezy violated his topic ban by restoring Nasser to the ] article, then the case is utterly frivolous given that Nasser unquestionably belongs on that list, and that merely asserting that he belongs on that list has absolutely nothing to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict. We are entitled to exercise a little common sense here. ] (]) 13:13, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|WeatherWriter}} 23:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:This would be fine if common sense was applied uniformly across the board, to editors on all sides. - ] (]) 13:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Marlarkey}}<p>{{ds/log|Marlarkey}}</p>
:: Just because there are some counterintuitive results at AE does not mean we should not try to avoid them. I happen to think that Nableezy has probably been the victim of more unsound remedies over a longer period of time than probably any other AE participant. The breaches for which he has been sanctioned in the past have almost invariably been of the most trivial nature, while his generally sound record of editing in accordance with core policies has been ignored. The same cannot be said for many of his opponents, some of whom have been editing in systematic violation of core policy for years without ever managing to attract a substantial block or ban. There are some major deficiencies in the current implementation of our dispute resolution processes, and at some point they are going to have to be addressed. In the meantime, we have to continue doing what we can to try and ensure that we get those common sense outcomes that I'm sure most of us support. ] (]) 14:20, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree with your general principles. As for Nableezy's record, I have an opposite opinion. But I guess we have to agree to disagree. Cheers. - ] (]) 14:26, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It is worth noting here that the the other editor involved, Lanternix, appears to have a far worse record than Nableezy, having been blocked nine times for exactly the same disruptive behaviour that Nableezy complained about above. This editor appears to be on a mission to disparage Islam and to remove any suggestion that Egyptians are Arabs. To this end, s/he has also been edit-warring on, for example, ], ], ] and others. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 14:53, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::There's only one small difference. The other editor involved has no topic ban.--] (]) 15:08, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
::::: I'm not sure what Lanternix is up to, but regardless, his dispute with Nableezy appears to have nothing to do with the A-I conflict. ] (]) 15:25, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
===Result concerning Nableezy===
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
Awaiting Nableezy's comment. I'm particularly interested in an explanation why is not a violation of the topic ban. ] (]) 22:26, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Whether or not it violates the topic ban, I see edit warring over a controversial ethnic/religious conflict in a country heavily involved in the history and current circumstances of the Arab-Israeli conflict. All things considered, that is incredibly unwise to say the very least. Why any editor should go picking new fights of a similar nature less than a month after being sanctioned is mind-boggling.

Edits summaries like and are clearly uncivil. They also seem like violations of the broad topic ban (note the specific mention of Nasser). --] (]) 02:50, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:I agree that denying Nasser as an Arab seems absurd, but that's neither here nor there. Nasser clearly falls under a '''broadly defined''' topic ban, from my point of view, as an unquestionably principal figure in the history of the conflict. In addition, editing about central figures sounds like ] to me. (The game is played thus: Edit as close to possible to a banned area without triggering the topic ban.) I also think if a repeated visitor to AE, or editor sanctioned by AE, is entering into similar patterns in neighboring topic areas that AE is a perfectly appropriate venue. There's nothing preventing us as admins from undertaking normal admin actions in response. If other admins disagree with my perception, so be it; I will defer to their judgment. ] (]) 04:00, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:For the record, I don't think a sanction is necessary here by any means. It should suffice to offer a clear warning to avoid major figures in the I-P conflict and avoid repeating misconduct in other ethnic, religious, or national controversial topic areas. There's no need to make a capital case or high appeal of this. --] (]) 15:26, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

*I personally don't see a problem with what Nableezy has done here. I know admins here often take the view that if something is close to the area of conflict, it probably shouldn't be touched. However, I don't think we should ''block'' people because they get close to the area of the topic ban. A warning that Nableezy's playing with fire should suffice -- that is unless you actually want to topic ban Nableezy from all Middle East articles. But editing ] or articles about intra-Arab wars being a violation of an Arab-Israeli conflict topic ban... c'mon, people... -- ''']''' 04:30, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
*I think Nasser is inextricably intertwined with the A-I conflict, such that it is impossible to discuss him in any realistic manner without mentioning the A-I conflict, and therefore is per se within the scope of the topic ban. Agree with Vassyana. ] (]) 08:33, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
*:Okay, yes, I'll accept that Nableezy's edits to ] are violations of the topic ban, but I do not believe edits to ] and ] are. Whatever happens to Nableezy should be based on the fact that he edited ] and not that he edited the other two (as it appears the only problem Mbz1 has with his conduct there is that he edited those articles). -- ''']''' 13:01, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
*::I'm not going to be doing any action in response to this (although I doubt that's going to be the final result). The more I look at the edits to ], the less I find them damning. Lanternix seems to be an established editor, but I can't for the life of me understand what s/he was doing. Anwar El Sadat? Mohamed ElBaradei? Nasser? Umm Kulthum? These are some of the most well-known Arabs of the twentieth century, and Lanternix provides no reason for removing them. I understand we are supposed to apply topic bans without considering the nature of the edits (unless they're vandalism), but the article is already at the edge of the topic ban. The edits Nableezy's edits were reverting were inexplicable and, until now, still unsubstantiated. This is not the behavior I believe the topic ban was intended to curtail. The incivility is a cause for concern, but that may warrant the lightest of blocks (two days at the most), given the context of a just-barely violation of the topic ban. But I'm not holding my breath for that, obviously. -- ''']''' 13:49, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
*:::I've been warning and keeping an eye on {{user4|Lanternix}} and {{user4|Voiceofplanet}}. See: ], ], ], and . See also: ]. They'll get sorted one way or the other. --] (]) 15:49, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Chesdovi ==

''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
===Request concerning Chesdovi===
; User requesting enforcement : ] (]) 13:38, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Chesdovi}}

;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : , ,


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# Chesdovis behavior yesterday and today has been troubling, disruptive and gaming the system.


''''''
Please take a look at some of his comments:
# - Mainspace PIA edit prior to EC status.
# - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request and acknowledgement of aforementioned edit.
# - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request.
# - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request. Accused another editor of vandalism.
# - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request. Says, "I don't give a stuff about what you or Israel say about the declaration."
# - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status. Accused editor of "vandalism" in edit summary.
# - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status. Accused editor of "vandalism" in edit summary.


''''''
At Seven Arches Hotel he had added that Jordans annexation was illegal , and I pointed out that there was no source saying it was illegal, he reply's: . He then goes to the ] article and says:
# - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status.
# - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request.
# - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request..."''Someone has reverted my removal of Israel - Hamas *AGAIN* so I've taken it out *AGAIN*.''"
# - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status.
# - Self-revert of direct previous mainspace reversion that was prior to EC status.
# - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status...Made while this enforcement request was being typed up. This reversion by Marlarkey is of an edit with the direct edit summary of "Per ]". User is 100% disregarding CT requirements.


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : N/A. No previous blocks or topic bans.
He returns to Seven Arches Hotel and says: , then later ads with the edit summary "more ganging up against Israel by the Arab bloc" - while linking to a Haaretz news article that has nothing to do with the Misplaced Pages article.
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): at 15:29, 21 November 2024.
At the Syria article he removes a summary of a quote by Israels defense minister that Israel provoked clashes before the Six day war: , previously anther pov editor edit warred to remove this well sourced notable information and there was discussion at the talkpage:, anyone can clearly see that there is absolutely no consensus to remove this text, Chesdovi is aware of this as he commented there, yet he has today once again removed it from the Six day war section claiming that its , (Gaming the system) and then reverted himself with the edit summary: , so he self rv to not violate the 1rr, while planing to once again forcibly edit war and remove this text when there is no consensus at the talkpage to remove it.


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
At the Syria talkpage he also had continued his personal commentary from above:
User has been on Misplaced Pages (on and off) since at least January 2010. It seems there is a ]-related issue on ArbCom PIA/Contentious topics, given the very clear lack of ignorance of the ArbCom Notification and subsequent edit summary arguments. I do not necessarily believe a block will be of use in this case, due to this editor's on-and-off Misplaced Pages editing status (less than 500 edits since January 2010). Either a topic ban and/or a 1,000 EC status requirement (i.e. EC-status requirement is something higher than 500 edits) is being requested. '''The ]''' (] 23:36, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*One of the edits by Marlarkey listed above from 13 January 2025 has been by {{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}} for Marlarkey not being ECR logged. '''The ]''' (] 23:37, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:*{{ping|Marlarkey}} I want to ], so I wanted to let you know that ] is what we call "broadly constructed". If you read ], it says, "{{tq|These are the current arbitration remedies applicable to any pages and edits that could be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict.}}" The edit you are attempting to me is ''related'' to the Arab-Israel conflict. The page itself does not have to be entirely about the war to be covered under the restrictions. Any edit that is at least, even slightly related to the conflict is covered under the restrictions. While the page is about declarations of war throughout history, the specific edit is related to whether the Israel-Hamas war was a declaration of war. That is obviously related to the conflict, given it specifically is in regard to the ]. That is why the edits were reverted and why this violation report was filed. Hopefully that makes sense. Also, just a quick side-note, accusing other editors of vandalism is ] and is not really how Misplaced Pages operates. You should always ]. '''The ]''' (] 23:50, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::*{{ping|Marlarkey}} We are all working together to create a better encyclopedia. No one is against you and we do wish for all to edit Misplaced Pages. The ArbCom restrictions require that you have (1) at least an account of 30 days old and (2) at least 500 edits, to be able to edit content anywhere on Misplaced Pages regarding the Israel-Hamas war. At the time of all the edits linked above, you did not have 500 edits on Misplaced Pages. You were roughly at 490. At the time of this, you now have over 500 edits, which means you could now edit content regarding the Israel-Hamas war. That said, this report was made because of the several edits you made prior to reaching the 500 edit requirement.


:::Please understand this is for the edits that you made which were in clear violation of the policy, which requires you to have 500 edits prior to editing anything even remotely related to the conflict. This report was not that you are incorrect with your removal of the content. Not at all. This report is because you removed the content before you were allowed to (i.e. the 500-edit mark). Please understand we all are on the same-side here and no one is vandalizing anything. Once this is resolved, I would be more than happy to calmly discuss the content changes with you. I hope you can understand that this report is specifically because you made the changes before you were allowed to and not at all regarding the content in those changes. '''The ]''' (] 00:52, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
I would also like to ad that this kind of behavior is not new to Chesdovi:


*{{ping|Rosguill}} After my last reply, I realized I went 105 words over the 500-word limit. I would like to request that 105-word extension (so I do not have to reword or remove the last reply I made). I do not plan to reply again as I think everything I needed to say and link to has been said and linked to. '''The ]''' (] 00:56, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
'''Reply to No More Mr Nice Guy:''' No I explained my edit: , we have not added to the Israeli settlement articles that they are illegal yet we have sources representing the IC saying that they are illegal, yet Chesdovi did that to this article without a source, I have no problem with the edit if its sourced, but in that case then we must also ad to all Israeli settlement articles that they are illegal as a fact and not as a pov. --] (]) 16:51, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
'''Reply to Chesdovi:''' What you are saying is not correct, I have not added to all settlement articles that they are "illegal", I explained my edit at the talkpage: "When we discussed and added the Israeli settlements illegality we had found reliable sources representing the international community, and '''even then we didn't say that they "were illegal" but that the IC view is that they were illegal''', in this article we have no source showing the view from the international community, yet chesdovi added that the Jordanian annexation was '''"illegal" as a fact''': " --] (]) 15:44, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:I edit many articles related to the Arab-Israeli conflict, and I edited Ahava (company) before you. --] (]) 17:08, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
::Yes I am 100% clear, I added exactly as I said that I had added. I brought it up at the talkpage: and after your comment saying there was no sources:, I removed it. --] (]) 18:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:::What Chesdovi is saying about me is incorrect, he is claiming I "took offence at the emphasis of the Jewish history" which is not the case and there is no evidence presented that I did. I have previously started an article about a synagogue ] and uploaded an image about the Jewish quarter in Damascus: and Jewish kids in Damascus: The article is about a suburb in today's Damascus. There wasn't anything written in the article about todays suburb, it was all about its history: see for yorself What I said at the talkpage was that it should be a general article about this suburb and I also showed an image that showed that the article contained factually incorrect text:. The article shouldn't be focused on one single thing while leaving out today's suburb. At Ancient underground quarry, just because something is written in what appears to be a reliable source, doesn't mean that we should cherry pick what that source says and then forget about the other overwhelmingly sources that say that the West bank is not in Israel. The source he wanted to use said that a location in the West Bank is "in Israel". This is something that is factually incorrect. --] (]) 11:08, 22 December 2010 (UTC)


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
'''Reply to Mbz1 :'''Yes because according to the source ''The First Jewish Revolt: Archaeology, History and Ideology'' it did not start out as Jewish, Jews moved in there later, so therefore its false and cherry picking to refer to it as an "ancient Jewish city" in the first sentence of the article. --] (]) 15:39, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
::Whats wrong with identifying a historian as Jewish? Isn't Bernard Jewish? The same section calls Shlomo Sand an "Israeli", so what is the problem? In this edit I identify Silvio Berlusconi as "Italian", should I be banned for that to? --] (]) 22:07, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


===Discussion concerning Marlarkey===
'''Reply to Ynhockey :'''What are you talking about? How is this battleground mentality? The source ''The First Jewish Revolt: Archaeology, History and Ideology'' shows it did not start out as Jewish, Jews moved in there later, so therefore its false and cherry picking of history to refer to it as an "ancient Jewish city" in the first sentence of the article. --] (]) 22:01, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
:An ancient towns ethnicity is usually referred to by its last inhabitants, while previous residents are mentioned in its history. ] (]) 11:34, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
::We are talking about one single edit I made neutralizing its lead based on its diverse history, if anyone disagrees with me then this is not a problem, we can talk about this at the talkpage, but to bring that frivolous content edit here and call it "battleground behavior" is ridiculous.--] (]) 11:39, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
'''Reply to Tariqabjotu :''' You have misunderstood, I never called anyone "pro-Israeli" or "Jewish" in a pejorative fashion. User:Breein1007 edits was in support of the State of Israel, this is what I wanted to point out. I didn't mean anything insulting or bad against him about it. And how is it a "pejorative fashion" to call Bernard Lewis a Jewish historian? The same section called Shlomo Sand "Israeli", Here I call Silvio Berlusconi "Italian" is this also a "pejorative fashion", you have misunderstood what I meant with those edits. I would also like to point out this comment by you: --] (]) 16:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by Marlarkey====
'''Reply to Nsaum75:''' Nsaum75 is misrepresenting me, yes I pointed out there political positions because there was an editor who was blocked who had the same political position as them. And these two editors with the same political position wanted him unblocked. This is not degrading them, I was making other people who might want to unblock the blocked editor aware of that they share the same political position. All the comments I made at Zaatar, Hummus, Ani Medjools talkpage are all things that has already been brought up in a previous enforcement that Nsaum75 started: and I was topic banned. I promised I would not say those kinds of things again, and I have not. Those comments I made where inappropriate and I apology's for them. In those comments I also did not call Jews or Israelis "thieves", and I didn't use Israelis or Jews as pejoratives. I also explained my comment at Ani Medjools talkpage at the enforcement, Ani Medjool used language that was going to get him banned or blocked, so I told him not to say those kinds of things. Should I be banned for the same thing twice? --] (]) 18:09, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:Please stop putting words in my mouth, I never said "Jews being thieves", I have not done any tenacious POV editing or the other things you accuse me of. I have explained all my edits.--] (]) 18:25, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::I said they had stolen, not that "they are thieves". Well the talkpage comments were tenacious, I meant that the article edits weren't tenacious POV editing after my topic ban. --] (]) 18:50, 21 December 2010 (UTC)


{{userlinks|WeatherWriter}} is repeatedly reverting edits which are removing information outside the scope of the page in question. My edits are validly citated within the scope of the page. {{userlinks|WeatherWriter}} has cited WP:ARBPIA but that is not relevant to THIS article which is not a Palestine-Israel article. This article is not a contentious topic - it is factual.
Nsaum75 keeps on adding the exact same things that was already brought up in the last enforcement, this is basically fishing. Yes I said Oren0 can not be considered neutral to the subject at the dispute at the Golan Heights article because of the things written at his userpage. The Golan Heights is occupied by Israel, the things written at his userpage shows him being supportive of Israel, so how could he be a neutral part or mediator if he supports one side? Would anyone ask User:Tiamut to mediate between a Palestinian and an Israeli? Both would have a conflict of interest, and this was my concern. And OrenO also closed the discussion in violation of Misplaced Pages guideline npov. Concerning the Mountain in GH discussion there was also a discussion at the Mount Paras article and Nsaum75 has only presented one diff where the situation and what I said is not presented correctly. We wanted to have the standardized names in English for the Mountains. The names used in Israeli and Jewish sources were almost all using the Hebrew names and not the standardized. This is why I said they weren't reliable for finding the standardized names in English, because Israeli and Jewish sources would most likely use the Hebrew names. Look for example here: One Israeli source basically said that the Golan Heights is in Israel. So it is therefor written from an Israeli point of view instead of a world point of view and this was why I objected to it. See also this comment , the English sources, several of these CIA and Texas University maps, used other names then the Israeli or Jewish ones and therefor should be more reliable to represent the standardized names in English then sources from the country that occupies the Golan Heights which would most likely use the Israeli/Hebrew names. And the third part admin who was invited to close the discussion said the exact same thing as me, that Israeli sources would probably use the Hebrew names: --] (]) 00:52, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
#
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : Topic ban from Arab-Israeli conflict.


My edits are WP:NPOV. This article is about declarations of war - the opening statement states "A declaration of war is a formal act by which one state announces existing or impending war activity against another."
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
1. Hamas is not a nation state - So Israel vs Hamas should not be included in the article
2. Hezbollah is not a nation state - So Israel vs Hezbollah should not be included in the article
3. Russia vs Ukraine are both nation states - the question then is whether there has been a declaration of war.


In the case 1 & 2, the removal of these two entries is WP:NPOV and the inclusion or otherwise in this article is in no way a comment on the conflict in question - only whether they constitute a declaration of war by one nation state on another. Which they do not because they are nation states.
===Discussion concerning Chesdovi===


In the case of 3, the inclusion of Russia vs Ukraine only relies on whether there has been a declaration of war. The citation I gave is documented evidence of Russia announcing that a state of war exists between Russia and Ukraine.
====Statement by Chesdovi====
*"Troubling, disruptive and gaming the system"? If this is about adhering to ], I am happy to accept any recomendations. About Syria, the only person who want's the POV violation in the article since my suggestion to remove it pending a solution at talk is SD. I am of the opinion that if something is violating polciy, albeit with illegit. "consensus", it be removed pending mitigation. None of my points made about the Dayan quote were addressed by SD. He is not willing to engage or edit in a helpful fashion. Just readding material after it has been removed pending further discussion is annoying. ] (]) 14:04, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


I suggest that by taking the action they have that the complainant is the one acting in a that asserts a political opinion about the conflict
*Regarding tariqabjotu: If this is a problem, I am happy take a softer approach. It does take another to point this out, uno. ] (]) 14:14, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


*Regarding my behavioual pattern noted by SD, this is just my style. Is there anything wrong about it? , , , , , , , etc... ] (]) 14:10, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


The reference by Weatherwriter to 21 November 2024 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Is only a partial quote - what I actually said was "I don't give a stuff about what you or Israel say about the declaration. I care about whether it is in the scope of this page."
*I will also add that comments made were sincere and have led to creation of the relevant pages ] and ]. ] (]) 14:47, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
The key is the final point - the scope of this article and whether the edits are validly cited in accordance with the topic of the article...namely a list of declarations of war.


Weatherwriter reversions of my edits serve to support a political opinion on a page which is about facts.
*I am also pleased to see that SD has seen to it that standards, once espoused herself, ("Israel and Jews have nothing to do with it. They have stolen our lands, now they steal our food and claim it as theyrse." ), are now being monitored by her, Well done. The AE system seems to work. ] (]) 15:19, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


'''I'm pretty angry about being accused in this way when MY edits were factually based and neutral point of view, whereas by reverting my edits it does precisely the opposite, allowing contentious and politically biased information to infect the page.''' GRRRRRRrrr
*I created ] three years ago. Four days ago, after doing work on International Law & Israeli settlements, it dawned on me that this hotel was built under the same conditions. Adding this fact to article was nearly immediately pounced on by SD, who not responding to my query at talk , removed the word . She also added the "fact" tag for ]? Yet SD has tirelessly campaigned for the word “illegal” to be included at all Israel settlements. There seems to have been no attempt on her part to find source disputing or corroborating the legality of Jordan’s settlements. I hope that by highlighting this POV issue regarding SD will go to explain why her accusation here should not be treated as coming from a non-neutral editor.


] (]) 23:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*SD further says "Anyway we don't add "illegal" before everything Israel occupies in other articles". Presumably she means Israeli buildings over the green line. Since such buildings are often described as being in an ], the IC’s view, obviously and correctly does not need to be mentioned in each individual building page. Yet at ], SD insists that the IC view is added to the page about an Israeli company, (when that is more correctly addressed in the ] page, being already linked to Israeli settlement) in order to push her agenda to give as much publicity to the political opinions about everything and anything linked to Israel. On this page, however, as there is no page about ], it would be necessary to include such a assertion. ] (]) 16:10, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
: More importantly, as NMNNG pointed out, how did you come to Seven Arches Hotel? ] (]) 16:25, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
::Read an article about it in Haaretz and googled it. --] (]) 16:30, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:::And Ahava, Cave of Ramban, Tomb of the Prophets_Haggai,_Zechariah_and_Malachi, Ancient_underground_quarry,_Jordan_Valley... ? You are free to follow me around as long as you don't hound me like Bali. ] (])
*'''SD has updated and editied her User request after disscusion has ensued.''' ] (]) 16:32, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::You are not being 100% clear with everyone. You ''did'' add that the IC viewed IS as illegal to many pages. Sure, it makes a difference how these facts are presented, that's precisely why I did not re-add your removal of the word illegal from ]. You did not, however, even attempt to use NPOV language as I did in many Golan Heights articles and you tagged the Jordanian occupation reference, which is very strange indeed. You can delete offensive words as much as you like, but don't go round reporting on others if they do the same thing. You removed the word illegal without attempting to initiate and wait for supporting sources, the same tactic you used at Turkish settlements in NC.] (]) 17:15, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
::::I stumbled across Cave of Ramban which had an ongoing dispute between you and SD in which you had asserted that East Jerusalem was in Israel, despite your being well aware (from previous other talk pages) that East Jerusalem is not considered part of Israel by anyone but Israel. I'm going to assume it's the same dispute . . . and yes, yes it is. Much like what you used to do with Golan Heights. If you keep making the same disputed changes across multiple pages then you're inviting someone to either follow you around or report you. You can't continue the same behavior at new venues and then plead you're a victim. It's tendentious. Please stop. ] (]) 17:17, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
I must note that I am now unavaiable for comment for a few hours or till tomorrow and request that no actions are taken before I have had time to digest and response comprehensivley. ] (]) 17:05, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


**Vassyana, pls explain which comments are inflammatory. And what the difference is betweeen "frustrated expressions and/or insults" and my comments, none I hope were insulting. I have just read about trolling and hope that the bit that you feel applies to me is under the "Pestering" section. Is it? ] (]) 16:14, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
**And I don't think my acceptance of any recomendation here ahould be called "woefully insufficient". ] (]) 16:33, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


On another point, following me reviewing the information in this complaint by WeatherWriter...
'''Statement'''
"If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)" The complainant cites a link to information which I have JUST accessed and have never seen before just now. I was NOT aware of this information so it is false to suggest that this constitutes evidence that I was aware.
SD’s critique of my actions are described as being “troubling, disruptive and gaming the system”. While my edits my indeed trouble SD, I dispute that I have been disruptive or endeavored on “gaming the system”. SD cites various comments I made at four different talk pages. Disruption can occur at talk pages, but I think the complaint is more to do with style rather than content. Vassyana has said my remarks were “inflammatory.” Originally questioning her view, I have now clarifying the meaning of the word (comments that are provocative and arouse passions and emotions) I concede that some can indeed be construed to this end. But they were not made in a vacuum. Precisely the fact the all occurred within 24 hours shows this. They were frustrated remarks all made in response to SD’s unilateral removal of the word “illegal” at SAH. It was for this reason too that I made, what I still view as acceptable, remarks about legality at Palestine refugee camps. Why did the removal of this word set me off? Because from past experience, I have tried to reword sentences at pages about Israeli settlements, leaving out the word “illegal”. This caused a major stir, upon which the word was re-added. My attempt to add the word “illegal” to Turkish settlements was then removed too. SD was involved in both instances and then subsequently crusaded to get a “final consensus” in order to have the offending word appear at each Israeli Settlement page. Before my “illegal” addition at SAH, I posted at talk. No response. As soon as I add it, SD comes along and removes it, requesting sources, to which I agree to. (bear in mind that the hotel’s construction was possibility illegal as, from the article it would seem that it violated Article VII of the Israel-Jordan General Armistice Agreement of 1949). Anyhow, that is why I went on what seems to have been documented here as a rampage, but all remarks are totally linked to SD provocation. I therefore cannot view my subsequent comments number of talk pages as being a normal case of trolling (if I understand what Vassyana is referring to).


Again this makes me angry at the accusations being made against me. If you don't want people editing and contributing to wikipedia then please just say so. GRRR
The comments about "Hama bloodbath was legal" and at "Syrian Air Force" were also made in response to SD not responding to my earlier reamarks about the Dayan quote. They were made with a sense of frustration, unknowing that such expressions are not in order. I mean, I have not and would not insult someone intently. I think that as SD has been lambasted similarly in the past, she is taking every chance of reporting other instances from the “other side”. I may have been getting carried away, which regrettably does happen from time to time, but I was not aware that it would result in an AE post. In retrospect, I concede comments were politically charged, highly incivil? If I offended the UN (“Wouldn't be the 'ole UN ganging up against the Jews again”) or to the Arab bloc therein (“The Arab bloc is at it again” – highlighted to illustrate the possibility why the existence of the Arab bloc and not a Jewish bloc at the UN has precluded the labeling of Jordan’s settlements as illegal) , I apologise. I apologise to Jordan for claiming its occupation was illegal outright without clarifying that it was merely a position held by the Arab League for a matter of weeks. (Now clarified somewhat with the help of Harlan; SD could easily have tried clarified this, but chose to delete the reference). I am sorry to the “UN, Arab leaders and the international community” for assuming their silence on Hama meant they acquiesced to it. Basically I fell into SD’s trap. All what SD has documented above stemmed from her initial provocation. If she felt comments of mine were troubling, she should have mentioned it to me, rather than gathering up as much evidence as possible to get me blocked or banned as she not a couple of weeks ago. Her reaction to my edits was intransigence and lack of will to discuss and compromise. Allegations that I am gaming the system are silly. She can tell from my edits at IL & IS that I am ready to comprehensibly discuss all points she picks up on.
] (]) 00:35, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
No personal insults were ever made, and unless I have to be punished for responding to SD in this way, I don’t see why any sanctions are needed. I can see from the reaction here that there is no room for banter here, well not when SD is involved. ] (]) 19:07, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
*:I give up... I'm being accused and being told off for responding to the accusation. I don't know anything about this procedure, have never seen this page before and know nothing about how this works because its new to me.
*:But I get it - I'm not part of the club that decides things... so I'll let you get on with that. ] (]) 00:47, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
::::<small>(Moved from WeatherWriter's section</small> I get it - you'd rather call me out by this procedure than have an accurate encyclopaedia article. You've made accusations against me and put me through this over restrictions that I knew nothing about and policies I knew nothing about. I simply came across something inaccurate and followed what I understood to be WP principles and made an objectively accurate edit.
::::So now the end result is that an inaccurate article containing a politically biased assertion is going to stay live. ] (]) 02:24, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
===Result concerning Marlarkey===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
-->
{{u|Marlarkey}}, you have gone a bit over your 500 word allotment for responses. Please do not comment further unless directly asked to. I will remove an additional reply that was both over your limit and in the wrong section. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 00:40, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
::{{u|Weather Event Writer}}, extension granted as that's essentially what Marlarkey has already taken. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 01:07, 14 January 2025 (UTC)


'''Comment about SD's previous actions''': If we are discussing SD’s previous actions, let me add this . SD added a tag with concerns that “Its about a suburb of Damascus and there is nothing here about todays suburb.” Does that warrant a POV tag? She presumably took offence at the emphasis of the Jewish history of the village (“which should be a minor subject”) under the guise that there was no modern material. I added the expand tag to placate her, but it was really unwarranted. At ], reliable sources specifically described the cave as “the largest cave ever found in Israel”. SD was having none of this, , calling the '']'' "factually incorrect". Also has in the past refused to recognise the current status of the West Bank, . ] (]) 10:33, 22 December 2010 (UTC)


Ok, having now reviewed ]'s page history, its talk page discussion, and Marlarkey's contributions more generally, I find that:
'''Vassyana''', I cannot accept your conclusion. Whatever I say, you would reject. You are free to focus on these remarks and my other sins, but I have already stated on more than one occasion here that I understand in retropesct that flurry of comments was not in order and am willing to brush up my act in future. If you are unwilling to accept that, so be it. ] (]) 11:29, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
:* Marlarkey has repeatedly violated ] at ] since having received a CTOP notice
:*Irrespective of whether it is correct or not to include the Israel-Hamas war, Israel-Hezbollah war, or wars between states and non-state entities more broadly, WeatherWriter's edits to the page are plainly not ], which has a specific (and serious) meaning on Misplaced Pages
:*It appears to be a long-term status quo to include non-state entities provided that there is a citation to some sort of formal declaration of war, and the page's inclusion of conflicts involving non-states ] and ] do not appear to have been challenged at any point.
:*Marlarkey is incorrect to assert that their edit is {{tq|objectively accurate}}. Whether the edit is accurate is subject to community consensus, and the talk page arguments in favor of inclusion base themselves on RS reporting which is a valid, policy-compliant argument. Marlarkey's arguments that a declaration of war can only occur be between two states do not make any reference to a reliable source stating this; while that text is currently in the lead of the article, it does not have a citation nor is it clear that any citation in the article directly backs this.
:*In light of discussion at ], which at this point shows multiple editors in favor of keeping the Hamas and Hezbollah wars, only Marlarkey firmly for removing them, and one other editor calling for discussion as of December 31st, Marlarkey's edits to unilaterally remove the entries in January amount to slow-motion edit warring
:*Given that Marlarkey has had an account for well over a decade, has edited a wide variety of topics, hit 500 edits while this was happening, does not appear to have otherwise shown interest in Israel/Palestine topics, and that the edits at Declaration of war don't fit into any clear POV-warrior pattern, I don't think that pulling extended-confirmed or issuing a PIA topic ban would help.
I'm thus inclined to suggest an indefinite partial block from ] (but not its talk page) as a regular admin action for edit warring, and a logged warning to be mindful of CTOP standards. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 04:10, 14 January 2025 (UTC
*As Marlarkey stated that they were unaware of CT, I wanted to confirm that I double checked and found that the CT notice was properly left in November. If Marlarkey chose not to read it, well, that's rather on him&mdash;we can only leave messages, we can't force people to read them. I would otherwise agree with Rosguill's assessment. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 12:00, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*I entirely endorse Rosguill's reading of this. I am not happy about Marlarkey's approach to our restrictions, but I don't see this as EC gaming, and I can't see how pulling EC rights could be justified at this stage. As such I endorse the proposed page block and logged warning. Marlarkey, you seem to believe that because you are right on the substance you can ignore process and guidelines - that simply isn't true. The arbitration committee has consistently held that ]; you need to be able to edit within the scope of our policies. ] (]) 17:10, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
* Pretty much everything Rosquill said. {{u|Marlarkey}}, it doesn't look like you have a huge amount of experience working in ]s. I'm sorry you're finding this upsetting, but CTOPs are a whole 'nother world, and you're either going to have to learn how to nonproblematically work there, or not work there. ] (]) 18:39, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*:FWIW, the CTOP warning was ]. You've got your archiving set so aggressively that you may be missing a lot of messages, and it's completely plausible that you missed this one, which was only on your talk for two days, and after it was left you didn't edit for a month. However, we do assume that if you've got your archiving set that aggressively, you're keeping on top of anything important by checking your notifications to make sure you didn't miss anything.
*:You can probably prevent this happening in future by having your talk page archive ''no more frequently than you typically go between editing sessions'', leaving maybe the five most recent messages unarchived, and/or being sure to check your notifications when logging back in. Any one of those three and you've have likely seen the notification. ] (]) 18:51, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hatb}}


==DanielVizago==
====Comments by others about the request concerning Chesdovi ====
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning DanielVizago===
;Comment by No More Mr Nice Guy
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Schazjmd}} 23:23, 14 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|DanielVizago}}<p>{{ds/log|DanielVizago}}</p>
The editor creating a battleground atmosphere here is SD, by reverting information he knows is factually correct rather than just tagging it for sources (here are just a few sources supporting Chesdovi's edit, which took me less than 5 minutes to find). He did the same thing in another topic when following Chesdovi's contributions a couple of months ago. Such bad faith revert-for-the-sake-of-reverting are just one of things that create a battleground atmosphere in the topic area.


Also, perhaps SD could let us know how he came upon this somewhat obscure article? Following users you don't like just so you can make their editing experience unpleasant enough to get a reaction and then reporting them (repeatedly) also has the stench of a battleground.


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
If a bit of sarcasm is not acceptable, Chesdovi has indicated he will stop using it. I won't go into the kind of much more blatant uncivil behavior that gets a pass around here. ] (]) 14:35, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

;General comment by Sean.hoyland
Adding material in the I-P conflict topic area without sources isn't something to be encouraged and people removing it shouldn't be accused of "bad faith revert-for-the-sake-of-reverting". Nothing personal in Chesdovi's case, lots of people do it, but we all know the rules and adding unsourced material in this topic area is like lighting a fuse. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - ''']'''</small> 15:23, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:We're talking about a piped link to an article that already included sources. ] (]) 16:56, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
::I don't think it's useful to talk about when citing sources isn't required in articles covered by discretionary sanctions or if verifiability can be provided via piped links to completely independent instances of content that aren't synchronized by any automated processes where the target at the end of the pipe that is assumed to provide ] compliance can be changed by anyone at anytime. Even social insects handle information more reliably than that. People can simply cite the sources ]. It's easy. . No one complained. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - ''']'''</small> 19:32, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
;Comments by Mbz1
:SD came here with "unclean" hands.

:At ] erases any reference to historical Jewish presence in the city :with edit summary "Jews moved in there later" Dec 19, 2010
:.
:Let's see what the source say: .
:Here
:'''NOTE:''' Both Epeefleche and No More Mr Nice Guy who here above have opposed the block are both pro-Israeli editors.” Oct 23, 2010
:As if to say, if you are identified as having Israeli sympathies don’t bother commenting because your views are unwelcome and automatically tainted.

:In the following edit,
:

:


--] (]) 15:27, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
;Comment by MalcolmMcDonald
I find it difficult to believe any action will be taken against this problem, particularly after seeing the battleground tactics already deployed.

In this case, I'd be fairly sure that Chesdovi is even factually wrong - there is nothing to indicate that Jordan's annexation was illegal. Even the partisan and non-reliable Jewish Virtual Library seems to grudgingly accept that it was uncontentious to all parties (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/legsess.html Sessions of the Arab League, Session 12-I, May 1950 "Iraq pressed a compromise position (later accepted) which viewed Jordan as the 'trustee' of the area" and Session 12-II, Resolution 321, 12 June 1950 "Acknowledges receipt of the information that East Palestine had been annexed by Jordan"). The UN never objected, unlike the near-unanimous and repeated condemnatory resolutions about the situation of the area post-1967.

However, it is plainly not worth attempting to contribute usefully at a topic that has been allowed to deteriorate so badly. ] (]) 16:32, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

:The illegality of the Israeli settlements, the Wall, and the associated administrative regime have been authoritatively established by the political and judicial organs of the UN and the contracting state parties to the Geneva Conventions. No similar authoritative declarations or opinions were ever expressed with respect to the union of Arab Palestine and Transjordan. On at least one occasion, I reverted an edit by Chesdovi regarding the illegality of the annexation of the West Bank by Transjordan and directed him to the existing discussions on the article talk page.

:I had provided a number of published sources, including the US State Department "Digest of International Law" and the State Department "Foreign Relations of the United States"-series which say that (i) the union of Arab Palestine and Transjordan was a case of the legal acquisition of sovereignty over territory; (ii) that the law of nations recognized the inherent right of the non-Jewish communities of the former Palestine mandate, including Transjoran, to organize a state and operate a government as they saw fit in the territories occupied by the two communities after the mandate was terminated; and (iii) that the union between Arab Palestine and Transjordan had been brought about through regional congresses and a plebiscite that reflected the freely expressed will of the two peoples. Here is a list of sources in my user space and one of several discussions regarding the topic at Talk:Occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem by Jordan .

:FYI, the Vaad Leumi and the Jewish Agency granted themselves all legislative, executive and judiciary powers over the Arabs in the territory they occupied. That included quite a bit of territory that lay beyond the boundaries of the UN partition plan. The UN Security Council and UN Mediator subsequently accepted formal agreements between Jordan, Egypt, and Israel which established the permanent lines of demarcation and the de jure authority and exclusive competence under international law of those states to negotiate any future boundary changes between themselves. Jordan and Egypt subsequently recognized the PLO as the sole representative of the Palestinians. Jordan ceded its claims to the West Bank territory to the PLO when the union betweenthe East and West Banks was legally dissolved. Israel signed a peace treaty with Jordan that preserved the status of the territory that it had occupied in 1967. ] (]) 14:30, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::I can only base myself on what I have read and the ] which says the Arab League viewed Jordan's presence in the West Bak as illegal. ] (])
:::I'm not making a list of articles that suffer from POV, but that's another obvious one. No resolutions at the UN declare the annexation illegal, the Arab League eventually defined it as trusteeship, and if Nasser or Kassim thought it was illegal they never formally said so in any of the 3 references given. If they had said it was illegal it would be under Sharia, not under any Internationally acceptable interpretation. A POV narrative has become the encyclopaedia's neutral voice. ] (]) 18:57, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:'''Question for Chesdovi''' - have you ever seen this http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Harlan_wilkerson/Jordan_Recognition and have you or any other editor ever challenged it or produced a counter to it?
:If you have seen the information there, have not challenged it, but persist in trying to edit in a fashion contrary to the evidence, then there must be serious questions over your conduct.
:I have also dipped into your contribution record going years back, in Oct 2006 I found "The Dome of the Rock was built as a Masjid, but not <s>a</s>? as a mosque for exclusive Muslim worship ... the fact that the building was not meant for exclusive Muslim worship and that claims of exclusive Muslim rights for prayer at the edifice are therefore tenuous, should given prominence in the article" http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Dome_of_the_Rock/Archive_1#Shrine_2 and "... this discussion is not necessarily about who owns the land. We all know that the Jewish people own the Temple Mount. It’s transaction by King David is recorded in the Bible" http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Dome_of_the_Rock&diff=prev&oldid=81983028 which would make it appear that you've carried out pretty odious religious baiting over a period of more than 4 years. ] (]) 13:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::The information on the explicit and implicit recognition of the political union between Arab Palestine and Transjordan was already posted to the article talk page on Jordan's occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem , before Chesdovi started editing the article about the illegal annexation/occupation. ] (]) 18:17, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

;Comment by Petri Krohn
There is something really strange going on at ]. While most hotel articles tell how many stars a hotel has, in this article ] – who seems to share Chesdovi's pov – is insisting the that the first sentence starts with a ] for an "illegal occupation" theory. -- ] (]) 18:12, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

;Comment by Pantherskin

It seems that Chesdovi has no clean hands here, althoug SD's description of what is happening at the Syria article is highly misleading given that there is anything but a consensus to include the quote; given that SDs editing in this section is highly biased; given that SD insists on including this quote without any disclaimer, depite the source making it clear that the quote is not seen as giving an unbiased summary of events by historians. Chesdovis excessive tagging, and edit-warring might violate the rules of Misplaced Pages, but the selecdtive use of sources as done by SD in this article is far more damaging to Misplaced Pages. Sadly though NPOV is not actively enforced here...
Regarding the quote SD insists on including, without any qualifications. The same article he uses to cite the quote says "Historians took a cautious approach, noting that the conversations had not been a formal interview."; "Bruce Maddy-Weitzman, a senior researcher at the Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and African Studies in Tel Aviv, said he was troubled that the published conversations could overshadow other factors in the decision to strike Syria.", "''He didn't intend to give a full, rounded interview,'' said Shabtai Teveth, a biographer of Dayan. ''Here he singles out the kibbutzim, which is not a very balanced picture". That shows pretty much that in at least this instance Chesdovi was in the right when it came to the content and SD blatantly violated NPOV.
;Comment by Nsaum75
Above in SD's response to Tariqabjotu, he says he's never called anyone Pro-Israeli or Jewish in a degrading fashion. I beg to differ. On several occasions he's tried to label editors as Pro-Israeli in an attempt to have their viewpoints dismissed(see comment above NMMNG's comment). AND on least three or four occasions used pejoratives to refer
to Israelis and members of the Jewish faith, describing them as “thieves.” He has also used
this term on off Misplaced Pages forums as well. . The issue was brought up again recently and he was asked to retract those comments] but SD dismissed it saying "he had already recieved a topic ban for those types of comments".. SD also dismissed the results of an RfC at the Golan Heights article in part because the closing admin was Jewish. And then there was an instance where SD said sources written by Jews were not reliable for determining the English language name of a mountain in the Golan Heights. An Israeli may not speak english as his native tongue, but almost half of the Jews on Earth live in the United States and speak english as their native language.

There was also this nice little comment he left for a now blocked/banned user, whom he often edited in concert with on articles.

I have more diffs as well. But what I see is a long pattern of editing not designed to improve an encyclopedia but more or less to push a personal POV and possibly personal dislike of certain nations, races, religions and nationalities into articles, but done in such a manner that it flies under the radar most of the time, just like the advice he gave to Ani Medjool where he stated how one has to use "doublethinking" to make edits and achive goals.
AE Sanctions can go both ways -- against the filer and the person being filed on. I would ask the admins to keep that in mind. Chesdovi has exhibited inappropriate behavior at times over a long span, but so has SD.
I'm very reluctant to say it, but I'm concerned that SD may have a dislike for Jews, Israel, and Israelis that he is unable to separate from his editing, even though he may not use such direct terminology as often as in the past or he hides it using, in his words, "doublespeak" and "not saying what he means"...essentially gaming the system. His long-term edit history and comments (recent and past) shows a pattern, that unfortunately, should not be ignored. --]<sup>]</sup> 17:31, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:'''Reply to SD''' not banned twice. But your edit history afterward has shown you have not changed your way of tenacious POV editing and thinking, you've only learned to go about it a different way by gaming the system. And you never retracted the racist comments about Jews being thieves, something that should have been done when it was asked of you the very first time...even if you had been sanctioned for it previously and said you would not make those comments again...hateful comments should be retracted and struck out. But thats aside the point here. Your battlefield behavior, pov pushing and tenacious editing has not changed over the long term despite sanctions and warnings. --]<sup>]</sup>
::'''Reply to SD 2''' You did call them theives. You even created a now deleted article title "Israeli theft of arab food". I appreciate you now apologize for those racist comments, but you should have made the apology when you were repeatedly asked to apologize (or struck them at that time)...not now, when its been brought up at AE. It exemplifies my concerns that you have not changed and still operate under alterior motives, and only say/agree to things when your actions could potentially lead to punishment (to quote you: "you have to realize that to get somewhere on Misplaced Pages you have to use doublethinking. Do not always say what you truly believe"). Reactive behavior (such as apologizing right now, as opposed to when it was repeatedly requested earlier) does not encourage me to believe you've changed, especially the latest flurry of AE's youve posted.. --]<sup>]</sup> 18:26, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::'''Reply''' Looks to me like you're calling Jews and Israelis thieves. Who else "stole your lands"?? If Israel came into existance in 1948, then it couldnt have been Israelis who "stole your lands". And in your last response, you still don't see how your edits could be tenacious or POV.

:::My listing of your historical edits are not intended to be used in this AE, but rather to show your long, POV, tenacious, anti-jewish history and the fact that you may have learned to game the system, like when you said "there's not much <b>WE</b> can do, but you have to realize that to get somewhere on Misplaced Pages you have to use doublethinking. Do not always say what you truly believe, try to reach your goals in another way. " Even after sanctions and blocks, every article you edit turns into a battlefield and you still do not recognize how your viewpoints and edits may be POV, despite admins pointing it out. Chesdovi and pantherskin are not guiltfree in the least and have created battles, but I don't see an extensive history where they exhibit anti-semetic viewpoints and give suggestions on how to edit from an anti-semetic/anti-Israeli point of view without being caught. --]<sup>]</sup> 18:43, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

;Comment by Sol
Chesdovi is a good contributor. When it's his area of expertise he's excellent. But some of this is getting a bit silly. No one, or at least very few, editors in the topic area are politically "neutral" (whatever that would be here), that's fine, but sensitive issues need careful treatment, not more disruption. When Chesdovi added nine possible suggestions to the ] article (concerned with religiously mandated/attitudes toward violence) in quick succession, implying that editors were looking to make Judaism more violent than it is, I was not entirely amused (only partially, it is funny stuff although off base). When he started specific editors and implying that Jewish theologians didn't care about events in which only , the intent was crystal clear. Something needs to happen. The last ban over the "" incident (which was, frankly, a very funny article) didn't work so it really seems like something needs to happen. I don't have much love for either SD or Chesdovi's politics and that's just fine but we really don't need more trolling in an area already rife with partisan bickering. You are better than all this, Ches. ] (]) 04:35, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
:It was not to do with "implying that editors were looking to make Judaism more violent than it is", but rather to highlight the fact that if the certain violent passages in the Bible were being used to depict the Jewish religion in a "bad" light, editors should not be selective. There are many instances of violence in the Bible. Why have editors picked up on only the cases of Hebrew violence against gentiles? That is wrong. When I have a chance, I will push for inclusion of the 25,000 Jews violently killed duting the civil war and of eariler muderous acts commited by biblical personalites which religious Jews venerate. I was not banned over Judaism and bus stops as far as I recollect. That could well have been turned into a valid article. I must point out that with all the bickering between me and SD, neither of us have decended to personal insults and the use of profanities which had been the case with other editors. (SD is decent in this respect, like me!) ] (]) 10:49, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

===Result concerning Chesdovi===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->
*These are the kinds of actions topic bans were made for. Chesdovi is being highly incivil and his politically charged comments are creating a battleground atmosphere that will only lead to more trouble in the area. If I were to throw out a period of time at this point, I'd say two months; Chesdovi hasn't been a particularly prolific disrupter in this area. -- ''']''' 14:04, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:*I would put three months out there, along with a sharp warning that further inflammatory comments in any topic area will be rewarded with blocks. This is a big set of blatant trolling and bombthrowing. --] (]) 15:40, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
*Many of the comments are obviously inflammatory. Saying it's just your approach and you'll tone it down if it's a problem is woefully insufficient. That a response appropriate to some frustrated expressions and/or insults, not for a large series of absolutely over the top trolling. --] (]) 15:40, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:*@Chesdovi: You can't just say things like that add nothing to the discussion but an argument. Talk pages are not discussion forums for you to win debate points. and seem like outright trolling to me. and just seem like ] and stirring up trouble. could be minor by itself but fits into a wider pattern of provocation. I also note , which is deeply concerning in context. And that is all '''just within 24 hours of your last edit'''. --] (]) 16:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::*@Chesdovi: Your response does not leave me more hopeful. You place the blame on another editor. You do not seem to understand the problem with your comments. You make sarcastic apologies to the UN and so on. You indicate that it upset you so much that you could not help yourself. You seem to indicate that it is personally important to ensure "balanced" coverage. These are all indicators that you need to be separated from the topic area. --] (]) 02:49, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
*Agreed that Chesdovi has crossed the line with many of his edits. On the whole, I support the proposed sanction, but believe that we must not act quickly and examine the behavior of both sides, as among the mutual mudslinging in the case, some actually legitimate concerns have been raised about the recent behavior of the editor who filed this request. There is a high degree of battleground mentality here, as demonstrated by edits such as (brought up above). I feel that if we don't identify the deeper problem, we will be loaded with more cases like this soon. —] <sup>(])</sup> 21:53, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:SD's lengthy comment below about nsaum is a prime example of battleground mentality (seeing editors as "pro-Israeli" and "Jewish" in a pejorative fashion). Note that that makes SD's third AE request in maybe five days... there's clearly a problem. That being said, topic-banning Chesdovi can be done now while the sanction against SD can come in the coming days. -- ''']''' 16:03, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That would be acceptable, although I believe that for our own convenience, we should merge the Pantherskin case and this one in order to examine the behavior of the relevant editors before the case is closed. I don't believe there is any problem with sanctioning one of the editors (Chesdovi) as an interim and not final step in this case. —] <sup>(])</sup> 20:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::I agree with both of you. We should handle all of the problematic conduct in front of us. --] (]) 02:48, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

== Pantherskin ==

''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
===Request concerning Pantherskin===
; User requesting enforcement : ] (]) 21:38, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Pantherskin}}

;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : , , edit warring


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
# Added ] to a BLP, after CTOP notification and several talk page messages notifying DanielVizago that the category is not to be applied to articles about individuals (per category description, {{tq|This category is for issues relating to misandry. It must not include articles about individuals, groups or media that are allegedly misandrist.}});
# Pantherskin had previously edit warred to remove a summary of a quote from the Syria article. You can see him here edit warring, he removed it at least three times from the Golan Heights article and seven times from the Syria article:
# and Removing sourced content from ] that states misandry is not a major an issue as misogyny;
# Changing content in ] to emphasize misandry (reverted by another editor with edit summary {{tq|rv, poorly sourced (sources supplemented by WP:OR and WP:SYNTH), earlier version was better, closer to sources}});
# Added "bimisandry" to ], citing 4 sources, none of which include that term;
# 14 Jan 2025, weird edits adding ] with piped names to unrelated articles, then those names directly to the category page;
# restored the "bimisandry" edit to ], then a 5th ref that includes the term but is just a blog; I left a 4th-level warning on talk page;
# (after final warning) adds <nowiki>] and ]</nowiki> to ]; those two individuals don't have articles and there is no mention in this article of their charges or convictions, even though the category solely consists of {{tq|articles of female individuals who have been convicted of rape in a court of law.}}


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
There was no consensus at the talkpage to remove it.
*None


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
He was blocked for slow motion edit warring.
*I alerted them on


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
He then left Misplaced Pages for a couple of months, then he returned and without any new consensus or any new discussion once again reverts it and removes the Dayan summary:
Above diffs are all edits ''after'' the CTOP notification was provided. Before then, DanielVizago misapplied ] to 46 articles, which is what caught my attention. Their attempts to add "bimisandry" to ] started . On 28 Dec 2024, DanielVizago added a lot of content to ] about misandry, which another editor with edit summary {{tq|remove recently added pro-fringe section and put back the excerpt}}. Most of their 122 edits have been reverted by multiple editors.


Before the level 4 warning, I guiding DanielVizago away from CTOP; they don't engage on their talk page. (They've posted there once, to say "thanks" in response to a warning.) With their refusal to communicate, poor sourcing, and non-NPOV edits, I don't think they should be editing in this topic area. ]&nbsp;] 23:23, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
And now since his return he has once again continued to edit war and remove it again: anyone can clearly see that there is no new consensus at the talkpage to remove it so Pantherskin is continuing to forcibly remove it.
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : Topic ban from Syrian-Israeli conflict


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
'''Reply to Mbz1''', I did not "erase any reference to historical Jewish presence in the city", With this edit I removed in the first sentence that its a Jewish city because the first source in the article shows that Gamla did not start out as a Jewish city. It is therefor incorrect to refer to it as a "Jewish city" in the first line of the article when Jews later moved in there.

::So, according to you, I should go to ], and remove from the first line that it was an ancient '''Arab''' city in Syria, because it was first a ] city, then a Solomonic one, then Greek/Roman, and only conquered by Arabs in the 7th century? Because it is incorrect to refer to it as an "Arab city" in the first line of the article when Arabs only later moved in there. I want to make sure I have this right. ] (]) 01:03, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::I'm not familiar with the history of Palmyra, but if it was several different things then it shouldn't be called just "Arab" in the lead. --] (]) 01:36, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

In this edit I added that Atarot Airport is located in East Jerusalem, I see now that I shouldn't have added "East" before "Jerusalem International Airport", that was a mistake.

Whats wrong with identifying a Jewish historian as Jewish? The same section calls Shlomo Sand an "Israeli", so what is the problem? In this edit I identify Silvio Berlusconi as "Italian", should I be banned for that to? --] (]) 22:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:Try to call Berlusconi a Christian politician or Romney as a Mormon politician and see what happens. - ] (]) 01:18, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::Being a Jew is also an ethnic background, not only religion. And its also the context of the text, the text is about a historian talking about the origins of Jews. So to point out that the background of the historian is also Jewish is relevant. --] (]) 01:36, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::It is, but I can't see how ''ethnic'' angle makes is more acceptable. If anything, it is even worse. Would you call Miliband a Jewish politician in the context of policy debate on relationship with Israel? - ] (]) 03:59, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::::I don't know who Miliband is, maybe if it fits in the context of the text, as I said above, the text was about a historian talking about the origins of Jews, so I believe it was relevant, I didn't mean anything derogatory about it, you have misunderstood me if that was what you thought. As I said above I also called Berluscioni "Italian", should I be banned from Italian related articles? --] (]) 16:54, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::Your persistent reference to context only highlights the problem more graphically. It implies that if a historian is Jewish, he is likely to have a particular POV (or explains his POV). This is called prejudice, to put it mildly. I hope admins will see it for what it is, even if you refuse to do so. Cheers. - ] (]) 18:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::So the editor who added in the same section that Shlomo Sand is an "Israeli", does he also have prejudice? --] (]) 18:45, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::::No. It is common to mention nationality of someone (Egyptian hisotrian, British historian). It is much less common to mention someone's religion, much less ethnic origin (Muslim historian, Arab footballer, Christian scientist, Alawy politician). It is not always clear-cut because some (many) ethnic groups identify themselves as nations even if they don't have a state of their own. But I think it is only proper to call a politician Welsh if he idenfiies himself in this way. No such self-identification is necessary for the use of one's nationality (British, Israeli etc). I think you get the idea. Cheers. - ] (]) 02:58, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::"Jewish Historian" gets 69,800 results on Google books.. So my edit was in accordance with mainstream publications. If anyone feels that it was a problem then we could discuss this at the articles talkpage. --] (]) 11:15, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Another question what was the need to mention the religion of the historian. The only need was to show that he is Jewish, and that's why he cannot be trusted. SD has not changed, when he wrote: . --] (]) 03:36, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

'''Reply to Pantherskin:''' What Pantherskin has done here below is to cherry pick a couple of sources that supports his pov, Moshe Dayans quote was published in 1997 and the source used is NYT so its new information. And who stopped Pantherskin from adding other relevant information? This is not a reason to remove the summary of the Dayan quote. The quote is also brought up in several books: "Israeli security was the alleged reason for military action in Syrian Golan Heights, but conflict over resources and farmland were important issues in themselves. According to Moshe Dayan..." "Israel intentionally precipitated hostile exchanges with Syrian farmers in order to justify larger military adventures in the Heights",

And there is no source presented by Pantherskin that contradicts what Dayan said. But there are also other sources talking about the same thing, see for example: . He removed all the text about that Israel provoked the clashes, and turned it into a Syrian claim, this means nothing. This is a content dispute about something he doesn't like personally and he wants it removed. --] (]) 22:39, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:NYT is not reliable? UN observer Jan Muhren is not a credible source? The current affairs programme can be found online, also The Discourse of Palestinian-Israeli Relations by Sean F. McMahon is published by Routledge, what is wrong with it?--] (]) 22:59, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
::How come you didn't mention The Discourse of Palestinian-Israeli Relations? Article in Washington Report on Middle Eastern Affairs is by Sheldon L. Richman, he looks like a good source: . Muhren was an UN observer, he was right there and saw everything with his own eyes. --] (]) 23:21, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
:::So a balanced view according to you is to remove reliably sourced text that Israel provoked clashes and then ad text written by the Israeli ambassador to the United states saying that Syria sponsored Palestinian attacks, and text that: "Syrian artillery repeatedly bombed Israeli civilian communities" --] (]) 10:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::::Michael Oren isn't the Israeli ambassador to the US? If a source doesn't have a quote doesn't mean that they ignore it. And I have shown you several reliable sources that bring up the Dayan quote and other reliable sources talking about the exact same thing as Dayan. The only thing said in the NYT article is one researcher in Tel Aviv saying that other things involving Syria is not mentioned, (this can easily be added) and his biographer Shabati Tveteh claiming he is singling out kibbutzim. --] (]) 11:12, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
*


===Discussion concerning Pantherskin===


====Statement by Pantherskin====


===Discussion concerning DanielVizago===
Please note that this a general overview article of Syria. What was previously in the article on Israel-Syria relations before the Six-day war was a single quote by Moshe Dayan. The quote was sourced to a NYT article that said "Historians took a cautious approach, noting that the conversations had not been a formal interview.". What means that this quote at best only gives a partial picture, and at worst is misleading. Nothing about these doubts about the quote in the article, and nothing about what is typically included in history books on this time period, i.e. the shelling of Israeli settlements, the incursions by Palestinian militants into Israel that were sponsored by Israel, and different interpretations of terms of the status of the demilitarized zone between Syria and Israel.
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by DanielVizago====
Only including this quote without any disclaimer thus violates NPOV. Even worse, only including this quote is giving a biased view of Syrian-Israeli history given that pretty much every history book that discusses this time period gives little attention if any to Moshe Dayan's quote or the substance of it (see for example (page 51, (page 192), (page 88), (page 58ff.), (page 289) etc).


====Statement by caeciliusinhorto====
A few days ago I removed the quote and replaced it by a summary of this time period, taken from reputable sources (see - the edit Supreme Deliciousness complains about). I invite every editor to check the neutrality. I tried my best, including Syria's defense that it cannot be held accountable for actions by others, and that Israeli was isolated in its view on the status of the demilitarized zone. Given that this is an overview article I also removed the Dayan quote, partly because of its dubious nature, partly because reliable sources make it clear that other events are seen as more important by historians. Nevertheless the short discussion on the status of the demilitarized zone and excursions by Israeli armored tractors summarizes the essence of the Dayan quote - according to the Israeli interpretation these excursions were legal, according to the Syrian interpretation they were provocations. The quote might suggest that the Syrians were right, but as historians are doubtful I left the quote out.
Since this report was opened, DanielVizago has continued to make questionable edits adding articles to ].


* , categorising a living person who has been accused (but not charged, let alone convicted) of sexual assault as a rapist (cf. ])
I do not wish this AE request to become another battleground for the usual pro/anti-Israel/Zionist whatever warriors, but I understand that this is what inevitably will happen. All I can say about this request is that I tried my best to improve the article and to bring this small section into compliance with NPOV. Supreme Deliciousness stand in the discussion on the talk page seemed to be that because this quote can be sourced it should be included, and that if there are doubts or opposing viewpoints someone else should work on finding them and including them. But that's not how good articles are written, because then - instead of looking at what good sources say about this time period - I would solely look at what sources say about this specific quote.
* adds the category to a disambiguation page on the basis of one of the people listed on that page, who had in fact been convicted not of rape but of
* and edit categorise two sexually-motivated murderers as rapists despite no evidence that they ever raped anyone in the article (cf. ])


] (]) 10:53, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
'''Reply to Supreme Deliciousness''' I find it hard to take this response serious as it rather proves my point. I did not cherry-picked my sources. I simply looked for academic books on the history of Syria/Israel and looked at what they write about this time period. One, to find out about events. Second, to learn how differents events should be weighted in an overview article. He comes with articles on very specific events, at least one from a a partisan source, none from anything resembling a serious and authorative source. The would be hardly be sufficient to establish events, and even if they would they would not tell us anything about how to weight these events in the larger context of things. Of course presenting these kinds of newspaper articles is a good way of using wikipedia policies to subvert ] because hey it can be sourced and should thus be included.
And seriously "something he doesn't like personally and he wants it removed"?? I made a case using sources, and that's what I get as an answer??
: The Washington Report on Middle Eastern Affairs is a highly partisan source, and the UN observer Jan Muhren is a credible source on himself, and nothing more. And I never said that the NYT is unreliable, I simply asked for taking the NYT serious by taking note that the NYT article says that this quote needs to be approached with caution. What is wrong is that you want certain claims in the article and try to find sources that support this claim.
:: You never presented this source at the talk page. All you did on the talk page was stonewalling, reverting, and saying this quote is sourced, thus it should not be removed and if there are POV problems others should fix it - but of course the quote has to stay there. ] to me, but of course that can be a very successful strategy when it comes to driving away those who want to present a balanced view of a time period.
::: This is getting tiresome. All I see from you is the same silly insistance on including a quote, despite the fact that most sources on this time period of Syrian-Israeli relations ignore this quote, or are emphasizing that it needs to be approached with caution. Even worse, you are making false claims such as that I inserted text written by the Isreali ambassador. The more I see of your battleground behavior and ]s, the more clear it is that you should be topic banned from this area. It is utterly laughable when you accuse others of POV editing, when all you do is to insist on including a quote despite your source making it clear that this quote is somewhat misleading.
:::: If you found all these good and reliable sources, why have the quote if we simply could say that the Israelis provoked the Syrians? And why do you continue making false claims, such as that I used Michael Oren as a source when I did not (although he would be a high quality source given that he is respected scholar).


====Statement by Simonm223====
'''Reply to George Al-Shami''' Highest caliber of POV-pushing. Unabashed extremist pro-Zionist stance. He will cook up some disingenuous argument. You are not even presenting a single diffs that somehow would support your claims!


Might be wise, as long as doing so wouldn't interfere with evidence, to get a revision deletion on some of the diffs presented above that make unfounded statements about BLPs. ] (]) 18:55, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
'''Reply to MalcolmMcDonald''' And can you show a diff and explain why this diff violates NPOV? Or can you just throw mud in the hope that it sticks.


====Statement by (username)====
====Comments by others about the request concerning Pantherskin ====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
;Comments by Mbz1
:SD came here with "unclean" hands, and he has to be topic banned. Please see below:

:At ] erases any reference to historical Jewish presence in the city :with edit summary "Jews moved in there later" Dec 19, 2010
:.
:Let's see what the source say: .
:Here
:'''NOTE:''' Both Epeefleche and No More Mr Nice Guy who here above have opposed the block are both pro-Israeli editors.” Oct 23, 2010
:As if to say, if you are identified as having Israeli sympathies don’t bother commenting because your views are unwelcome and automatically tainted.

:In the following edit,
:

:--] (]) 22:07, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

;Comment by BorisG
:Seems like a normal content dispute, and a rather trivial one at that. Not appropriate for AE, in my view. - ] (]) 00:58, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::Agree in relation to Pantherskin, but I believe SD editing pattern that has lately became the same she was topic banned for a few months back should be looked at, and I believe sanctioning SD is in order.--] (]) 01:38, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Re to Boris: Coming back from a 5-month break to start an edit war... That does not look good, especially for someone who came to the project to be constantly involved in editing ethnic conflicts (one of his first edits: ). ] (]) 03:21, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::::What Pantherskin explained above is perfectly logical even if his methods are not. Who leaves and comes back does not bother me. A number of people in this area have battleground mentality and Pantherskin is not an exception at all. SD is a typical example of this. BTW it takes (at least) two to edit war. When one partisan editor brings his opponent to AE, it does not look good either. Admins should look at conduct of all sides (or dismiss without action). - ] (]) 04:08, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::Edit warrign is not just reverting, its the spirit of what is happening, there is no agreement to remove the quote, so to keep on removing it despite no consensus is the origin of the edit warring. Thats why I opened this Enforcement, because I don't want to edit war. --] (]) 10:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::Sure, it takes two to tango. The important factor is not the "mentality", but what exactly someone is doing or contributing here. If one looks at the edit history of an editor who made ''only ~800 edits'' (for example), and most of them represent reverts, claims like or and contentious disputes, this is a serious matter for concern. One must contribute content, not conflicts.] (]) 05:47, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::It appears we have two POV warriers here. Arguably, more than two. I really have no interest researching their record to determine which of them is worse. All I am saying is that admins should take into account the record of both sides. Cheers. - ] (]) 11:58, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I strongly agree. A lot was said about problems in EE area, but these conflicts are worse. Just look at the statements below. SD: ''"Breein1007 who is Pro-Israeli"''. George Al-Shami: ''"his unabashed extremist pro-Zionist stance"''. <s>If I was an admin, I would topic-ban them all</s>. <small>(I do not argue for draconian sanctions, but these conflicts are ugly. I never called any editor "pro/anti-Chechen/Russian" while editing Chechen war subjects, but still was topic banned for )</small> ] (]) 15:35, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I do too. Both SD and George Al-Shami's language is unacceptable.--] (]) 03:31, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

;Comment by Nsaum75
Biophys brought up the argument of "content over conflict" in the immediate section prior. SD was topic banned from I-P related articles for 30 days (April 30 to May 30) of this past year. During the 30 days he was banned he only made TWO types of contributions. One type was to '''forum-shop over 10 admins''' in an attempt to find someone willing to re-read a battle-field laiden SPI case against a user he had been involved with numerous conflicts with (essentially carry on the battle). The second type was 10 edits to ONE article about Playstation 3 games. He made two edits to potential IP related articles, but self reverted so as not to violate his topic ban. Those edits can be viewed .

In my opinion, an editor who is here to contribute constructively to an encyclopedia will find other areas to edit if they are banned. An editor who is here just to create conflict and push a POV, will just drop out until their ban is over, or go to AE/SPI and try to punish their opponents while they are "down for the count".

The closing admin needs to take into consideration the editing history of both Editors, not just the individual who this case was brought against. --]<sup>]</sup> 06:48, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:Talk about a bad faith comment by Nsaum75, There was a SPI based on behavior and no admin looked at it because it was very long, so I asked the closing admin if I was allowed to ask admin to look at it and he said that I could: . Many admins declined to look at it so I just kept on asking several admins until it got attention. Your claim that I am here to "just to create conflict and push a POV" is absurd and not based on anything. I edit '''many''' articles that has nothing to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict, I have also created several articles that has nothing to do with the A-I conflict, I can go into greater detail of this if any admin wants.

:Nsaum75 is an editor who edits Misplaced Pages to push a pov: When it is infact the opposite, that the international community do not consider it part of Israel.

:Previously I opened a AE against Breein1007 who is Pro-Israeli. Nsaum knows breeins disruptive behavior: he later removes that comment: saying he "doesn't want to get involved". Then when an admin advocates a topic ban for Breein75: directly after nsaum once again posts and pushes for me to be sanctioned, although I had not done anything wrong: . '''This is the exact same thing he is doing now.'''

:Nsaum 75 is constantly wikistalking me, shows up to articles right after I edit them, although he has never made any edit there before: List of LGBT Jews: transport in Syria: Ben-Gurion House: Shebaa farms: Gaza flotilla raid: WikiProject Arbitration Enforcement: Anti-Lebanon mountains List of wine-producing regions Israeli wine Og Second Temple of Jerusalem Golan: Al-Araqeeb: Arrack (drink) Highway 87 (Israel):. I opened a AfD. Nsaum75 then edits there, previously he never touched that article until I opened the AfD, .

:At one time I started a thread about a sockpuppetér and his puppet at the ANI, I explained In the first sentence why I didn't notify him:, Nsaum then right away went to the discussion and pushes for me to be sanctioned: (Why is Nsaum75 even getting involved in that discussion?) He also posts at another talkpage that I didn't notify despite me already saying why I didn't notify and despite that he already asked for me to be sanctioned at another board Clearly forum shopping as also noticed by another user:

:He opened a clear straw man RfC: . Basically gives two option, the Israeli view, then a view that clearly will not get support "illegally". Two other people reacted to this aswell:

:In a conversation at an article talkkpage, Nsaum75 removed a comment where he had said it is ''"not neutral"'', while at the same time adding that: ''"Are we going to try to game the system by interjecting trigger words like "non neutral" whenever something is said that we don't agree with?"'' . This really says it all.

:An obvious sockpuppet named "LibiBamizrach" shows up starts edit warring, pov pushing and begins to be generally disruptive at a wide variety of Arab-Israeli articles, anyone can clearly see that this is on old account just looking at his first edits at wikipedia. LibiBamizrach contacted Nsaum75 and said: "thx for the welcome": but on LibiBamizrach talkpage there is no post from Nsaum75. Why is Nsaum75 sending of wiki messages to this "new" account outside of wikipedia? In this edit LibiBamizrach mentions how a "cleanstart" is interesting:. Why is nsaum75 sending of-wiki messages about "cleanstart" to this "new" user who is obviously a reincarnation of on old disruptive pov editor who is continuing the same behavior? I opened a SPI against him, after Nsaum75 sent this sockpuppet off wiki messages to tell an admin that the new account is a "cleanstart", when infact its nothing but abuse of multiple accounts, right after the new puppet contacts an admin:, and right after the SPI I opened was deleted by the admin, I first thought it was Amoruso, but what I do know is that there is something very shady with what happened with him deleting the SPI and I asked the admin if LibiBamizrach has been notified of the ARBPIA sanction before and he did not reply to me. But later admin Sandstein saw through this fasad of "cleanstart" that Nsaum75 had told "LibiBamizrach" to present his puppet account as, and Sandstein blocked the account:, please read what Sandstein says: "it is also highly likely that you are a banned or blocked editor trying to evade your sanctions, or a veteran editor attempting to evade accountability for your actions with this or your other account. This means that your use of this account is an abuse of multiple accounts."

:This is only some of the things Nsaum75 has done, there is more. --] (]) 10:25, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::That long, and cherry picked response helps to exemplify mine and other concerns about long-term battlefield, pov-warrior, and disruptive behavior. I wikistalk no one, and its not a requirement to edit a page in order to watch it (i have many watched, unedited pages) and I also follow AfD listings. My edit history speaks for itself as does .


::I have also never been sanctioned or blocked, how about you?? However if you want to bring up wikistalking, perhaps you could address why you recently popped up to request file mover rights on the Commons only a day after I requested (and was successfully granted) file mover rights

::AND, Unlike my successful request, your request was denied because of admins concerns that you might have political motivations and because you did not recognize your own POV. You continued to argue how you don't make POV edits even after being denied filemover rights

::Anyhow, like I said, your long winded response only helps to exemplify your long-term battlefield, POV mentality here on WP. But like BorisG and others above said, you are not alone in exhibiting long-term, poor, non-productive behavior on WP. The same problem exists with several editors on the "Israeli" side as well. However most of them seem to recognize their hands are unclean, but in your responses here and elsewhere, I've not seen evidence that you realize any problem with your edits, actions or behavior...despite being sanctioned, blocked and warned by numerous admins --]<sup>]</sup> 14:51, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Nothing of what I said is cherry picked, the diffs speaks for themselves. The problems at Commons started because of account Kàkhvelokákh, guess who that was? I don't remember exactly everything that happened there but it was about the description of images, and I also wanted to move some names, so its only natural that I would ask for it. All images I asked to be renamed have been renamed:. Is this "political motivations" or "pov" names ? --] (]) 15:39, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::::If you say so... My edit history speaks for itself. I'm not the one who has sanctions and blocks as part of their edit history, been denied editor tools because of pov and disruptive editing and behavior nor do I make regular appearances here on AE. Why do you think that is?? I'm not perfect but...one has to ask that question.. --]<sup>]</sup> 16:47, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::Unclean hands is not the same as ]. This is the latter. Please file an AE against SD instead of parking material here. If you've got a case, bring it, but this is getting way off topic. ] (]) 06:43, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I believe that the information is part of the larger picture admins are dealing with here, especially the long-term behavioral issues that both sides of the filing present. Therefore, in my opinion, it is relevant, especially in light of the flurry of AE filings that have been going on recently amongst a small group of editors. --]<sup>]</sup> 07:27, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
;Comment by George Al-Shami
:Pantherskin is attempting to remove a properly sourced paragraph from the Arab-Israeli conflict section of the "Syria" article. I have seen nothing, but the highest caliber of POV-pushing by Pantherskin. To give an example of this; on some articles he does not delete sources from the New York Times provided they back his unabashed extremist pro-Zionist stance; however if that same publication prints something that contradicts or criticizes Israel he will cook up some disingenuous argument just to remove that source. This former behavior is in complete contradiction to the integrity of Misplaced Pages. A closer scrutiny of Pantherskin's edits will prove the former contention.] (]) 03:24, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
''Italic text''
;Comment by MalcolmMcDonald
A quick scan of Pantherskins contributions makes him look like a serial violator of NPOV. I found concerning the article on Syria and the section on the Six-Days War. Only those determined to insert POV into the article could defend what he's trying to do there. ] (]) 17:41, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

===Result concerning Pantherskin===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
I am currently looking over all of the diffs provided. I am also looking at the article histories and discussions being referenced. There's a lot to review here, so please be patient with me. One thing I note is that there is a lot of personalized, insulting back and forth going on here. Bringing that here is an extremely unwise choice. A wise choice would be to ], ], ]. --] (]) 03:48, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->

==Ironman1104==
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
===Request concerning Ironman1104===
; User requesting enforcement : ] (]) 10:58, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Ironman1104}}

;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ]

; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
# First revert, of
# Second revert, within 24 hours of the first
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
# Warning by {{user|O Fenian}}
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : Block


===Result concerning DanielVizago===
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : My objections have been made clear at ], Ironman1104 has not taken part in the discussion and carries on reverting. ] (]) 10:58, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''


*I've p-blocked from article space to see if we can get this editor communicating. ] (]) 12:35, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
*I want to hear what they have to say, but I'm going to need a fairly convincing explanation as to how they're here to build an encyclopedia and not to POV-push men's rights activism content where it doesn't belong. The IDHT and spammy behavior and the BLP vios on top of that aren't super encouraging, either, but if they decide to communicate, I'm happy to reassess. ] (] • she/her) 22:56, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I'd like to hear what they have to say, too, but I'm also not averse to letting this archive with no further action since the p-block is an indef. I've left another message at their talk. ] (]) 13:41, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
-->


==USERNAME==
===Discussion concerning Ironman1104===
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning USERNAME===
====Statement by Ironman1104====
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Bamdad bahar}} 17:36, 19 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|USERNAME}}<p>{{ds/log|USERNAME}}</p>
====Comments by others about the request concerning Ironman1104 ====


<In editing Alexander's family and descendants' information, editor Prince Tehran keeps deleting edits and reverting to unfounded information. A new reference has been cited in Persian, and there has been considerable research conducted to confirm that Prince Alexander had two sons (not recorded in Georgian texts - for obvious political reasons). I am respectfully requesting that this editor(Prince Tehran) NOT be allowed to make these changes (or undo the edits). In a very practical sense, its a little ridiculous to suggest that Alexander had two children in his 50's but somehow did not have any when he was younger. The data from Iranian sources is correct. !--- Here and at the end, replace Prince Tehran with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
===Result concerning Ironman1104===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
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Latest revision as of 18:24, 19 January 2025

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    Lemabeta

    Lemabeta has acknowledged the warnings here to take more care and stay well clear of articles from which they are restricted from editing. Further violations are very likely to lead to sanctions, up to and including an indefinite block. Seraphimblade 12:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Lemabeta

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    EF5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Lemabeta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 5 Jan 2025 - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
    2. 4 Jan 2025 - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. EF 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. EF 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Here

    Discussion concerning Lemabeta

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Lemabeta

    Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --Lemabeta (talk) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are related but distinct concepts. An ethnographic group refers to a community of people defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, cultural heritage refers to the *practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
    So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) emerges from ethnographic groups but does not define the group itself. Lemabeta (talk) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. Lemabeta (talk) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Lemabeta

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under a topic ban imposed by a consensus of AE admins from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:
      ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
      <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> voorts (talk/contributions) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" @Lemabeta: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Note that I've deleted Draft:Rachvelians as a clear G5 violation. I think Mate Albutashvili is a bit more of a questionable G5. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared ... traditions" and "shared ... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". voorts (talk/contributions) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Tamzin: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @EF5: They were "reviously given ... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Lemabeta: Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity. There's a reason we use the words "broadly construed" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?)This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • EF5, I don't understand your "Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above" statement, can you please explain what it refers to? This T-ban? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
    That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by their apology for "accidental violations". I'll AGF that they were accidental, but OTOH, they surely ought to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? Bishonen | tålk 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
    EF5, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are very different, and the block log only logs blocks. Bishonen | tålk 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
    • It seems that the general consensus here is to treat this as a final warning, and Lemabeta has acknowledged it as such. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within the next day or so, I will close as such. Seraphimblade 01:16, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

    Boy shekhar

    Blocked by Rosguill as a regular administrative action. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:57, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Boy shekhar

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Daniel Quinlan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:34, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Boy shekhar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics/India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    • This edit violates the topic ban because it is in the topic area. It's also based on an unreliable source and the section header includes a derogatory term.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    @Vanamonde93: No, I don't think you're being too harsh. I think you're right. My thinking was that if I was uninvolved, I would have blocked them under WP:CT/IPA so I sleepily submitted it here last night instead of ANI, which is what I should have done. Daniel Quinlan (talk)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Boy shekhar

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Boy shekhar

    Statement by Vanamonde

    This user hasn't edited for 4.5 years since they were TBANned, and none of their 31 edits show any ability to follow our PAGs. At the risk of sounding harsh, an extended AE discussion is a waste of time; a passing admin should indef them (I cannot, I am INVOLVED on most of the content they have edited). Vanamonde93 (talk) 23:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

    @Daniel Quinlan: Apologies if that sounded like a criticism of you, it wasn't intended as such: I'm just advocating for the first uninvolved admin who sees this to block and close. Vanamonde93 (talk) 00:14, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Result concerning Boy shekhar

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Vanamonde93's assessment is spot on, the edit in question is the kind of gross violation of WP:NPA we indef people for on the spot even when it's not a TBAN violation. Blocked as a regular admin action. Although I will say, without knowing how exactly Vanamonde93 is involved here, this is so far beyond the pale that they could have gone ahead and blocked on an "any reasonable admin" basis. signed, Rosguill 04:49, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    שלומית ליר

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning שלומית ליר

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Smallangryplanet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:24, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    שלומית ליר (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBPIA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation of how these edits violate it

    ShlomitLir (שלומית ליר) created their account back in 2014. The breakdown of their edits is as follows:

    • 2014 to 2016: no edits.
    • 2017 to 2019: 1 edit per year. None related to PIA.
    • 2022: 7 edits. Mostly in their userspace.
    • 2023: 21 edits. Again, mostly in their userspace. Made two edits in the talk page of Palestinian genocide accusation complaining about its content and calling it “blatant pro-Hamas propaganda”.
    • 2024: Started editing after a 10 month break at the end of October.
      • Made 51 edits in October and 81 edits in November (copyedits, adding links, minor edits).
      • In December, that number rose up to almost 400, including 116 in December 6 alone and 98 in December 7. Became ECR that day.
      • Immediately switched to editing in PIA, namely in the Battle of Sderot article where they changed the infobox picture with an unclear image with a dubious caption, and removed a template without providing a reason why.
      • They also edited the Use of human shields by Hamas article, adding another image with a caption not supported by the source (replaced by yet another image with a contextless caption when the previous image was removed) and WP:UNDUE content in the lead.
      • they also voted in the second AfD for Calls for the destruction of Israel despite never having interacted with that article or its previous AfD. They have barely surpassed 500 edits, but the gaming is obvious, highlighted by the sudden switch to editing in PIA.

    More importantly, there's the issue of POV pushing. I came across this article authored by them on Ynet, once again complaining about what they perceive as an anti Israeli bias on Misplaced Pages. They have also authored a report for the World Jewish Congress covering the same topic. The report can be seen in full here. I think that someone with this clear POV agenda shouldn't be near the topic.

    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Adding some additional comments on 2025-01-16: On top of POV issues, the user has a number of tweets that appear to be a clear admission of gaming, implicit canvassing, creating and sharing lists of potential "most biased articles", and clearly calling for specific edits. They've also been cited as coordinating an off-wiki coordination hub for editing Misplaced Pages. If this - combined with the tweets, the forms, the op-ed and the report to the WJC, all under this user's name (that they also use to edit Misplaced Pages - this is not outing) isn't a clear cut case of canvassing, I don't know what is. Smallangryplanet (talk) 20:00, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
    Notification diff


    Discussion concerning שלומית ליר

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by שלומית ליר

    I believe contents of this filing to be in clear policy violation and have reached out to the arbitration committee for further clarification before commenting further.שלומית ליר (talk) 14:34, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    I was given clarification from an admin regarding my concerns and will now be drafting a response. Thank you for your patience. שלומית ליר (talk) 21:19, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Thebiguglyalien

    This is the first ARBPIA report since the proposed decision was posted at ARBPIA5 and it's specifically a matter of POV pushing, responding admins should be aware of the "AE topic bans" remedy. The committee is discussing whether to implement a remedy stating that admins at AE are "empowered and encouraged to consider a topic ban" purely for biased editing. So far, the argument against is that it's redundant because AE admins are already supposed to do this. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 05:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-03-29/Special_report

    Statement by Selfstudier

    To the extent that it is relevant, the WJC report was discussed at Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-03-29/Special report. Selfstudier (talk) 11:25, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by starship.paint (2)

    I would to like to raise this 9 December 2024 edit at Battle of Sderot, where there had been an existing unsourced paragraph (On the morning of October 7, a tour minibus...) that שלומית ליר added a reference to (archive 1 / archive 2) from the Israeli Public Broadcasting Corporation. The reference is relevant, but I believe it may not verify every detail in the Battle of Sderot paragraph (e.g. "Netivot", "Holocaust survivors"). The reference contains a short paragraph of text and a video that is 4:21 long. I can't watch the video in the reference, but I believe it is this same YouTube video that is 4:20 long which contains the same screenshot as the reference, on the same topic. Most of the video is an interview of the daughter of a dead victim who was on the bus (the daughter had been on the phone with the victim), except for 1:58 to 2:13 which appears to be a quote from the bus driver. The publisher themselves do not have too much reporting in their own voice (on the video), yet this reference was used to cite a paragraph entirely stated in Wikivoice. No attribution was made to the relative or the bus driver, or to the publisher. I can't be totally sure though, due to unfamiliarity with Hebrew. starship.paint (talk / cont) 13:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by xDanielx

    @Arcticocean: I don't really see how NPOV can be read as requiring edits which support both sides of a controversy. Our content policies don't impose any positive duties; they only tell us what not to do. The text of the policy doesn't support the notion that a pattern of edits could be in violation, even if no particular edit is in violation.

    In principle, such a pattern of edits could violate the UCoC policy, but I don't believe this board has ever enforced it. If it were to be enforced, I think it should be for more serious violations like the double standards that e.g. this attempted to demonstrate, rather than mere opinion-driven editing which applies to the vast majority of CTOP editors. — xDanielx /C\ 03:11, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Hemiauchenia

    This user has engaged in off-wiki canvassing regarding the IP conflict. Take the following recent tweet from the 12 January permanent archive

    For posterity in case it is deleted it contains the following remarks:

    If you can't handle the facts, just delete them Propaganda on @Misplaced Pages includes targeting Israel, demonizing it, and erasing inconvenient truths, from falsifying war outcomes to deleting Israeli inventions and attempting to erase the reality of Palestinian suicide bombers.

    Along with this is a screenshot of the current AfD Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Palestinian suicide attacks. People are of course allowed to be caustic about Misplaced Pages off-wiki, but calling out a specific AfD with highly charged rhetoric, essentially inciting canvassing seems out of line. Hemiauchenia (talk) 02:05, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

    For those concerned that this might be outing, שלומית ליר is very open about their real life identity on their userpage. See (archived). If you reveal your real identity on Misplaced Pages, your tweets about Misplaced Pages on your Twitter account connected to your real-life identity are fair game to mention. There's also reverse confirmation in this tweet . Hemiauchenia (talk) 02:46, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Cdjp1

    As we seem to be ok to pull evidence from the statements of the editor in question, they have also commented more recently about running interference on Misplaced Pages (archive) in response to a question of if Misplaced Pages can be "saved". -- Cdjp1 (talk) 23:22, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Sean.hoyland

    It has been several days. Perhaps שלומית ליר could clarify whether their belief about the way Misplaced Pages works turned out to be a true belief or a false belief so that this report can progress. Sean.hoyland (talk) 09:07, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning שלומית ליר

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Users are allowed to have a POV - it's a rare user indeed who edits a contentious topic without having some strong opinions about it. For conduct to be actionable at AE it needs to be an actual policy violation. The misleading use of images doesn't rise to the level of AE action in my view, and judging whether an addition like this is UNDUE is not within AE's purview, as long as it is supported by the source. Vanamonde93 (talk) 23:22, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
      The PIA5 remedy hasn't passed yet, and its interpretation is as yet unclear to me: but in my view we are already empowered to deal with biased editing, in the sense of editing that violates NPOV. What I'm not willing to do is sanction on the basis of someone's opinions alone; they have to be shown to have let their opinions get in the way of following our PAGs. Vanamonde93 (talk) 07:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
      I see some evidence - based on Arcticocean's digging below - that שלומית ליר is using images without sufficient care, but I don't see that rising to the level of a sanction. As to the rest, xDanielx is correct - nowhere do our policies require treating both sides of a conflict equally - indeed our PAGs discourage false balance. Those diffs could be actionable if they individually or collectively violate policy, but I have yet to see evidence of that. Vanamonde93 (talk) 03:22, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
      The off-wiki canvassing is a problem. It merits a warning at least, I don't know if the formality thereof matters. If there was evidence that שלומית ליר was aware of WP:CANVAS I would consider something more stringent. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:39, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
    • While I understand Vanamonde93's concerns, I think that we are required to assess the totality of the user's contributions. Contentious topic editors are required to uphold NPOV. Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics#Guidance for editors places an obligation to Within contentious topics,… edit carefully and constructively… and… adhere to the purposes of Misplaced Pages. The linked page provides that Misplaced Pages is written from a neutral point of view… We strive for articles with an impartial tone that document and explain major points of view, giving due weight for their prominence. If an editor is only adding content that significantly favours one or the other side to the conflict, this is incompatible with their contentious topic obligation. That is because an editor making only one-sided edits will simply not be taking the necessary steps to ensure that the whole article is written from a neutral point of view. As their number of one-sided edits increases, the likelihood decreases that the editor is ensuring our content is neutral and impartial. Once we reach the point of being sure that they are not attempting to ensure neutrality of content, we can conclude the editor is not meeting their contentious topics obligations and we can issue a sanction. This can only be assessed with hindsight and by looking at the editor's contributions as a whole. arcticocean ■ 20:21, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    Assessing the topic area contributions of the respondent (שלומית ליר) since they became extended-confirmed at 17:33, 8 December 2024, there is cause for concern. I counted 19 edits to the area conflict. Taken together, they significantly skew the articles negatively against the opposing side of the conflict:
    Assessing the edits as a whole, it is difficult not to conclude that the respondent user is failing to meet their contentious topics obligation to edit neutrally in this topic area. As the number of edits is so far limited, if a sanction is imposed, it could justifiably be light-touch. arcticocean ■ 20:34, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    @XDanielx: Thanks for commenting. Most of the edits do not have a neutral, encyclopedic POV. There is an effort to influence our articles away from neutrally describing the subject without taking sides, contrary to WP:NPOV. Even if each edit in isolation is insufficient for sanctioning, taken as a whole the edits show an inability or unwillingness to edit neutrally. One non-neutral edit shouldn't be sanctioned; twenty is a different story. This is not about the percentage of biased edits but about the weight or amount of them. Therefore, the assessment wouldn't really change even had the editor made some 'neutral' edits along the way. I'm happy to concede that editors cannot be compelled to balance edits of one bias with edits of another, but I don't think that comes into it. In a nutshell, this is about Misplaced Pages:Advocacy. arcticocean ■ 08:40, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    Luganchanka

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Luganchanka

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Hemiauchenia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Luganchanka (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Editing of Biographies of Living Persons
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 19:55, 12 January 2025 Reversion to version of article where the article says "He is a child sex offender" in the second sentence despite consensus at BLPN discussion that this is problematic because Ritter never actually interacted with a real child.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

    18:28, 12 January 2025 BLP CTOP warning given

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    At BLPN, there has been consensus that the version of the article describing Ritter as a "child sex offender" in the second sentence of the article is problematic, as he did not actually have sexual contact with a child, only a police officer impersonating one. Misplaced Pages:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Scott_Ritter_Biography_-_Noncompliance_with_MOS_and_BLP_Guidelines. Luganchanka has been persistently edit warring against this apparent consensus. For which he has been warned by @NatGertler: , which he subequently blanked There has been persistent objection to descrbing Ritter as a "child sex offender" in the opening sentences of the article going back to at least August Talk:Scott_Ritter#First_sentence, but Luganchanka persistently cites a "consensus" for its inclusion that as far as I can tell does not seem to exist, with Luganchanka aggressively editing to enforce its inclusion. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Luganchanka's response is disingenuous and misleading. Look at the Talk:Scott_Ritter#First_sentence discussion I linked above. Nobody other than Luganchanka thinks that Ritter should be described as a "child sex offender" in the opening sentences of the article. The dispute isn't about whether or not the convictions should be mentioned in the lead at all or not, it's specifically about the use of the phrase "child sex offender", and there is no consensus to include that as far as I can tell, despite Luganchanka's vociferous claims to the contrary. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:47, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    RfC opened Talk:Scott_Ritter#RfC:_Ritter's_sexual_sex_offenses_convictions. Hemiauchenia (talk) 16:01, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    20:27, 12 January 2025

    Discussion concerning Luganchanka

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Luganchanka

    The intro on the Scott Ritter page had remained largely the same for several months, as you will see on the talkpage it is an intro approved, and reverted to, by multiple senior editors. There has been a recent flurry of activity / edits. While I WP: assume good faith, it does look like those edits are attempting to downplay / whitewash Ritter's sexual offence conviction(s). I have not been 'aggressive' at all, rather I have simply referred contentious edits to the talkpage to build consensus, attempting to do my duty as a good Misplaced Pages editor.Luganchanka (talk) 20:40, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Please see the Talk:Scott_Ritter, where there has been a clear consensus reached, on more than one occasion, and by senior wikipedia editors, that Ritter's sexual offence conviction should be included in the lead to the article. My edits have simply been aimed at ensuring this consensus reached is maintained in the article.Luganchanka (talk) 20:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Thank you to @Valereee and @Red-tailed hawk for your feedback. If you see the Talk:Scott_Ritter, discussions - 14 August - Vandalism by removing all reference entirely to Ritter being a "Convicted Sex Offender" and First sentence. The latter discussion ended on 26th September, and resulted in the intro we had until a flurry of edits the other day, trying to move information on Ritter's sexual offence conviction, downplay it, whitewash it etc. My edits were aimed at restoring the edit reached by consensus, which had been in place for several months until the recent raft of edits with the clear aim of moving / downplaying Ritter's sexual offence conviction.Luganchanka (talk) 06:39, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
    Thank you for this (nest), I really do appreciate your feedback and advice here!!Luganchanka (talk) 16:30, 16 January 2025 (UTC) (moved from admin-only sectionRed-tailed hawk (nest) 17:34, 16 January 2025 (UTC))
    As per Rosguill's comments:

    "Unfazed by "Emily's" age, Ritter asked "Emily," "you want to see it finish?" Ritter then turned on the webcam and ejaculated in front of the camera for "Emily." Detective Venneman then notified Ritter of his undercover status and the undercover operation and directed Ritter to call the police station."

    https://casetext.com/case/ritter-v-tuttle

    Luganchanka (talk) 18:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by NatGertler

    Editor's edits today focused on trying to main a negative descriptor of what subject believed, despite it not being in the three sources that were listed (nor in the old version they ultimately reverted to.) Efforts were first trying to simply restate the claim, then trying to source it to an opinion piece (problem) from the Washington Examiner (also a bit of a problem, per WP:RSP), then trying to state as a fact what had merely been stated in a non-prime article as an accusation. BLP concern was pointed out repeatedly via edit summary and on Talk page. Removal of unsourced contentious BLP claims and even false claims is not "whitewashing" despite how editor wishes to depict it, it is in accord with our practices. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 21:08, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Luganchanka

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    @Luganchanka: whether you're correct or not, you were edit warring. I believe an indef block from the article and/or a temporary site block would be an appropriate sanction here. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:54, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    I've blocked the user for 48h for violating 3RR based on the report at WP:AN3.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Luganchanka, edit-warring to remove negative content at a BLP is an exemption to 3RR. I see that NatGertler mentioned this in their edit summaries and at talk. As voorts points out, it doesn't matter whether you're right when you're reverting an edit that is being claimed as an exemption, even if you believe Rosguillwhiyou are "ensuring this consensus reached is maintained in the article". The solution is to go to talk, discuss, and get consensus. If you'd like to respond, ping me to your response at your talk and I'll post it here. Valereee (talk) 16:04, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Luganchanka, if you really believe those two sections -- senior editors, indeed, this one was between someone with 13 edits and somcoen who wasn't ECR, for heaven's sake -- somehow prove consensus was strong, and you think that means you can ignore all the later ones -- at one of which you didn't even respond to a ping, where people were objecting -- then this is maybe looking like a WP:CIR issue.
      But even if you had been somehow editing to support a consensus you believed was settled, you cannot edit-war contentious material into a BLP when others are objecting to it. The solution, always, is to go to talk, discuss, and reconfirm consensus. There is zero urgency to have this information in the article. Including something negative in a BLP is not something you should ever edit war over. Valereee (talk) 18:14, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Luganchanka's reading of the state of consensus on the talk page as supporting their edits is so far off base that it borders on being a CIR issue if it's sincere. Indef block from Scott Ritter seems appropriate. signed, Rosguill 22:49, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
      I see RTH's point about the "First sentence" section in isolation. I'd note that the link to WP:FORUMSHOP isn't really appropriate here, as bringing the discussion to BLP/N was an appropriate action (if it was then brought to NPOVN, NORN, etc., that would be forumshopping). I'd like to see some actual contrition around the edit warring and frivolous accusations of whitewash before writing this off as time-served. signed, Rosguill 15:49, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      That's fair; I'll strike the link. My point in including it was that, when conversations fragment, we sometimes get these sorts of chaotic incidents. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 15:54, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      Understood, I think that meaning was clear for us here in the admin section, but I could easily see a new editor misinterpreting it unintentionally. signed, Rosguill 15:57, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      I am not at all comforted by the fact that Luganchanka has proceeded to make Special:Diff/1269831044. The cited BBC source does not state masturbated and ejaculated on camera, saying only graphic sex act. As written, this is essentially another BLP violation, building a case that a ban from this topic is needed. signed, Rosguill 16:53, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      Having reviewed the other sources, reliable sources do confirm the masturbation claim (, ) but not ejaculation, which appears to be supported only by New York Post, a generally unreliable source. Luganchanka, in light of this clarification, can you please address your decision to include the claims as you initially wrote them? signed, Rosguill 17:02, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      The detail is in the record of Ritter v. Tuttle (case No. 3:15cv1235 (M.D. Pa. Dec. 14, 2018)), so it isn't completely made up. But I would also like to hear from the user on this point as to whether there was secondary sourcing here. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 17:32, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      Seeing Special:Diff/1269853673 here and Special:Diff/1269853955, Special:Diff/1269845272 at Talk:Scott Ritter, I see no comprehension of the use of primary vs. secondary sources, nor any reflection of their past errors in engaging with this topic. I believe that a block from the page is needed to prevent further BLP violations as they have shown no understanding of the relevant policies even after being given several warnings, reminders and opportunities to revise their position. signed, Rosguill 18:47, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Luganchanka:
      WP:BLPPRIMARY calls upon users to not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person. There are some narrow exceptions (when primary-source material has been discussed by a reliable secondary source, it may be acceptable to rely on it to augment the secondary source), but adding material to the article not found in reliable secondary sources is... suboptimal at best under our biographies of living persons policy.
      Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:27, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Luganchanka: Would you please provide a direct link to the talk page section you are referring to when you say there has been a clear consensus reached, on more than one occasion, and by senior wikipedia editors regarding the lead? — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 01:57, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Luganchanka and Hemiauchenia:
      It does seem that the discussion at Talk:Scott Ritter#First sentence does indicate some support for that language i.e. (convicted child sex offender) in the lead, with some general lean against putting it in the first sentence. So, while There has been persistent objection to descrbing Ritter as a "child sex offender" in the opening sentences is true if it means the literal first sentence, I do see a rough consensus to include the material in the lead section in some way in that discussion.
      That being said, the BLPN discussion had a bit of different tone and tenor from the discussion on the talk page. There was notification about a BLPN discussion on the article's talk page, but Luganchanka, despite having been pretty vocal about this subject in the past, hadn't participated in that BLPN discussion. They instead grounded their edits in the argument that the article's talk page had consensus for the current content, and nothing on the article's talk page had changed that consensus. And that much was true. In any case, we've got two different forums with two different answerstwo different forums with two different answers here, which appears to be what's leading to the whole kerfluffle.
      Then the analysis comes to whether or not the label is a straightforward BLP violation, requiring us to read the sourcing in the article. This NY Times piece, which is cited in the body of the article (but not the lead), does state that Ritter was convicted unlawful contact with minors and other charges in the state of PA (the PA statute is here; "unlawful contact with minors" is the verbatim name of the crime). When dealing with a sting operation, PA treats it as an offense of the same grade and degree as if the criminal had actually contacted a child (unless it's a lesser crime than a third-degree felony, in which case it becomes a third-degree felony). This is an extremely common practice in the United States (there are lots of philosophical questions regarding mens rea and actus reus here, but that's not really relevant here). In any case, labeling this to be a child sex offense (or, alternatively, to simply use the name of the crime in the article) does not appear to be straightforward malice/POV-pushing/libel, and a reasonably informed individual might shorten it in this way. Whether or not that is wise or optimal to shorten it is the proper subject for content discussion.
      Aside from the edit warring (which was not acceptable, and was aptly handled by a block), this looks like a content dispute. A heated one involving a living person, sure, but a content dispute nonetheless. I see good-faith—albeit passionate—disagreement. If the editors were to come together and engage in one forum (such as the article's talk page, where this has been discussed a bunch), rather than splitting the discussion over multiple pages, I feel like we might have our best shot at attaining a consensus going forward.
      In short, it looks like the conversation fragmented, and consensus-building broke down. Edit warring ensued, which was bad, but we've already blocked for that in order to dissuade it going forward. A Request for Comment on the article's talk page for what the lead should look like is probably the best way to go forward here.
      Red-tailed hawk (nest) 15:27, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      RTH, are you objecting to a p-block from the article? Valereee (talk) 13:35, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Luganchanka has been blocked for a week by User:ScottishFinnishRadish for BLP violations and personal attacks. Liz 18:38, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
      Just noting that this was a regular admin action and I wasn't aware this was before AE. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:42, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
      With this in mind, I think we should wait to hear from RTH but otherwise expect to move forward to an indef p-block on top of SFR's stopgap action, as we haven't seen anything coming close to an adequate recognition of the relevant policies and practices from Luganchanka and after several second chances and nudges, I don't see reason to expect them to change course. signed, Rosguill 18:54, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

    BabbleOnto

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning BabbleOnto

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    ජපස (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:34, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    BabbleOnto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/COVID-19#Contentious_topic_designation
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 11 January 2025 Sealioning
    2. 11 January 2025 Refusal to get the message
    3. 11 January 2025 Personalizing an argument.
    4. 11 January 2025 Railroading the discussion.

    This is all after I warned them about WP:AE sanctions, and they dismissed my warning out of hand. Very nearly a WP:SPA on the subject. I see no reason to continue tolerating this kind of obstinate tendetiousness. Additional diffs available on request from admins, but looking at the user history should suffice to indicate the problem is obvious, I hope.

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 9 Dec 2024 (see the system log linked to above).
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    This is a WP:SPA with respect to the topic and their disruption surrounding it has been subject to at least one WP:FTN thread that remains active: Misplaced Pages:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#Gain_of_function_research. The hope was that they would WP:DROPTHESTICK and move on from this, but it seems they either will not or cannot. jps (talk) 17:34, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    diff

    Discussion concerning BabbleOnto

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by BabbleOnto

    I would first like to begin by point out the person filing this complaint is involved in the content disputes at issue. They have frequently left "warnings" which read more like threats on my talk page and others' talk pages for people who disagree with them. Nor would I be the first person who would they would get banned from this topic for disagreeing with them.

    To be honest I'm not entirely sure what it is I'm being charged with doing.

    I think in general the user is alleging I've been uncivil, unhelpful, and, in their words, obstinate and tendentious. I know when someone disagrees with you it may feel like they're getting in your way and acting in bad-faith, but that's not always true. I've never tried to be disruptive or uncivil. I've admitted when I was wrong, I've dropped arguments that were clarified to be wrong, I've tried to find compromise, at times begging people to provide their sources and work together. And when those editors refused to, I didn't provoke any further.

    I now address the specific edits in the complaint:

    1. I don't see how this is sea-lioning. The user misquoted the article. I pointed out the misquotation, then addressed a accusation against me that I was second-guessing the sources (A claim which was never substantiated). I then said any source would have to support that actual claim which was in the article. I don't know what this violates.

    2. I don't see how this is refusing to get the message (IDHT). The other party is making direct claims alleging I said something. I did not say it. I replied with what I actually said. What part of that interaction is saying "I didn't hear that?"

    3. Admittedly probably the strongest of the four allegations. I'm not pretending I was perfect in all of my comments. I should have kept my criticism strictly to their argument. I ask you to read it in context and keep in mind you're viewing a hand-picked assortment of my worst edits, and this is the worst they could find. Also consider that conversation accused me of having a basic reading comprehension problem, perhaps you can see I lose my cool sometimes too.

    4. I'm not even really sure what "railroading the discussion" means. Thus, to keep this section short and to save words, I don't know what I'm being accused of doing wrong here.

    All of this has stemmed out of arguments over two sources. I have tried to find compromise, I have tried to negotiate, I have tried to build consensus. I've been going through the proper channels, I've been participating in the RfC, I've been discussing it on the ANI, I source every claim I make, for a month now I've been trying to constructively explain my side and defend my argument against challenges. It's incredibly frustrating to now be facing an Arbitration Enforcement on grounds that I'm not working with others. BabbleOnto (talk) 23:54, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    • Sorry, the sub-header for this section says that only admins can edit this section, I didn't realize I was allowed to reply here.
      Yes, I will. I intend on taking an extended break from wikipedia, as well. BabbleOnto (talk) 17:06, 19 January 2025 (UTC) Moved from uninvolved admin section; you can answer questions, make comments, discuss, but all your input needs to be in your own section. Valereee (talk) 17:15, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
      • an extended break doesn't solve the issues around understanding policy. An extended break from contentious topics -- while you edit in other topics and learn policy -- would be more helpful all around.
        What I meant was that I'm willing to respect the consensus and not make any further edits or argue any more contrary to what the consensus decided. It seems to me that saying I have "Issues around understanding policy" and asking me to "learn policy" has subtext that says "Until you agree with this consensus, and you won't be allowed to edit at all." Is respectful disagreement with this consensus allowed? I'm afraid if in order to avoid a ban I have to personally agree with the consensus, beyond just respecting it, then there's nothing I can do. I still do disagree with the consensus's result. Nonetheless, I'm not going to edit or argue further, I'll respect it as a legitimate.

    Statement by ProcrastinatingReader

    I've interacted with BabbleOnto in several threads. There's a few problems, but ultimately, I think they have a certain opinion on what the article should say, and will debate endlessly to get the article changed to their position. I mean, sure, reasonable people disagree on how to interpret sources and apply policy, but I don't think BabbleOnto is actually interested in faithful application of policies to write high quality articles based on good sources.

    That's not terribly problematic by itself, but most discussions with BabbleOnto are exhausting. Rather than actually trying to understand someone's argument in good faith, I think BabbleOnto replies to editors by picking out parts of an argument, interpreting it in the most disfavourable way possible, and making a superficially reasonable response ad nauseam. They reply endlessly in this manner. As well as misrepresentation of opponents' arguments, on multiple occassions BabbleOnto has either misrepresented sources or hasn't read their own sources. I can't think of a single thread where BabbleOnto didn't have the last word, or a single thread where it seemed like BabbleOnto was actually trying to understand the arguments of other editors in a charitable way. As such, I think it's very difficult to work collaborately with BabbleOnto on the lab leak theory and related articles. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 21:07, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Newimpartial

    As the editor to whom BabbleOnto was responding in the diffs of the filing, I feel compelled to comment now that they have defended (to varying degrees) their first three diffs. I will reply as briefly as I know how to their defense of the diffs, as revised.

    1. BabbleOnto is now doubling down on the claim that I misquoted the article. I didn't "misquote" the article - I didn't quote the article, and I explained what my comment meant in the rest of the (now collapsed) thread that ends here. Also, I provided a clear explanation of why I thought they were second-guessing sources later in the thread, but BabbleOnto never responded to that explanation. They are now responding to the accusation of WP:CPUSH with pure WP:IDONTHEARTHAT.

    2. On this they say, now, that The other party is making direct claims alleging I said something. I did not say it. This is repeating a misreading they made in the original thread, where they mistook a statement I made about another editor's comment as if it were about theirs. In this "defense", I see no attempt to read thoughtfully what other editors say in reply to them and revise their understanding accordingly; all I see is zero-sum mentality and WP:IDHT.

    3. BabbleOnto is now justifying an edit where they said to me, You have a habit of inserting small lies into everything you say and You're not adding anything constructive. You're just refusing to explain anything and saying conclusory statements, or lying about what you said - all this based on a misreading of what I had actually written - because I was going to refer to a basic failure in reading comprehension two hours later. This seems like a time travel paradox.

    4. They don't bother defending themselves on this one, but just to point out the actual issue with the diff, they doubled down on their accusations that I said a material lie, and that I lied when said that quoted the article out of context. Pointing out being caught lying and then proceeded to STRAWMAN the rest of my comment to which they were replying. If they had read my prior comment with a reasonable level of attention, they would have understood that there were no "lies", just a misunderstanding or two in each direction. But WP:IDHT again; even in responding to this filing BabbleOnto is still insisting I did things that I quite obviously didn't do.

    It is exhausting to deal with this kind of quasi-CPUSH (not quite civil, but certainly push) behaviour. The Talk page in question has seen a recent influx of single-purpose or nearly single-purpose POV accounts, and in terms of editor energy, this one certainly seems not to be a net positive for Misplaced Pages as a project. Perhaps if they edited away from Covid and US politics, their track record might improve. Newimpartial (talk) 03:33, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Objective3000

    Just a quick aside to Valereee's aside: Contentious topics are a terrible place to learn.... Talk:COVID-19 lab leak theory currently has posts from 19 editors lacking the edits for extended confirmed. O3000, Ret. (talk) 20:38, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    @Valereee, this is also a problem at other CTOPs, and is likely to become more problematic. I assume due to off-Wiki forums. ECR might just produce more users gaming EC. I thought it would be useful to put your aside into the CTOP template at the top of CTOP TPs. But that assumes folks read it. Walt Kelly said something along the lines of: “If only I could write, I’d write a letter to the mayor, if only he could read." This discussion is likely better off elsewhere. O3000, Ret. (talk) 21:38, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    Note: IntrepidContributor was just TBanned from the topic of COVID-19 and indef blocked until the accusations of off-wiki coordination made by them at ANI are retracted. Those accusations are like their suggestion made in their statement in this filing. O3000, Ret. (talk) 12:11, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by JoelleJay

    At the very least, can we get more admin involvement on the lab leak page so trolling like this doesn't disrupt things even more? JoelleJay (talk) 07:12, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by IntrepidContributor

    I have been observing BabbleOnto and while there are valid concerns about bludgeoning, I think the proposed sanctions are too much. His engagement in the Covid lab leak topic is driven by commitment to WP:NPOV, which our articles fail to adhere to, and he made the mistake of arguing with editors who were never going to listen (resulting in what looks like sealioning on his part). He's not only editor to raise issues in the topic and engage in good faith discussion, only to find themselves pulled to AN or AE disputes after staying out of the seasoning traps and refusing to capitulate to threats. In a parallel AN case concerning another editor in same topic, I suggest there may be possible off-wiki coordination , but it can also be on-wiki ().

    One need only cross-reference names from Feb 2021 RfC, checking those that voted for labeling COVID-19 lab leak as conspiracy, with the names of complainants here. Contrast all these old timers with the steady stream of tens if not hundreds of regular editors complaining that our article fails NPOV, and see that their gentle approach doesn't work . Our chief complainant is already preparing his next case , and this might not be his first.

    I suggest that administrators consider a 1 to 2 month topic ban for BabbleOnto to provide opportunity for him to correct his approach, while staying alert to the tactics of POV editors trying to draw them into content debates to influence outcomes.

    IntrepidContributor (talk) 14:46, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by TarnishedPath

    Please see this edit where BabbleOnto edited Gain of function research restoring previously reverted content and WP:POVPUSH using a shit source after they'd been told by multiple other editors in discussions here and here that the source was shit. Notably in the edit summary they wrote "Read discussion page. Manual revert. No serious challenge has been made to these changes. Methinks an admin needs to get involved..." despite them being in a WP:1AM situation. If a clue is not gotten by the editor fast I'd suggest TBANs from both COVID and AP2 is warranted in order to cease their disruption. TarnishedPath 04:25, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

    Noting the editor's continued behaviour at Talk:Gain-of-function research. Refer to Special:Diff/1270316266. TarnishedPath 01:53, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
    and again at Special:Diff/1270346091 TarnishedPath 03:01, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by berchanhimez

    This user was given no less than 4 chances on the talk page to stop talking about bans/other editors and start talking about the content. They have continued crying about how they're scared of getting banned... yet they continue blabbing about other editors getting banned for their bad behavior rather than refocusing on the content as requested. At a minimum a partial block from the talk page(s) in question is warranted, and it would be beneficial for a topic ban from the origins of COVID-19, broadly construed. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 03:37, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

    Result concerning BabbleOnto

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • BabbleOnto, please edit your statement down further to fit within the restriction. This also serves as an opportunity to rephrase your defense, which currently is not convincing at first glance. ProcrastinatingReader's description of the situation seems quite apt, particularly BabbleOnto replies to editors by picking out parts of an argument, interpreting it in the most disfavourable way possible, which is currently a pretty fitting description of your response to them here, given that you zeroed in on the "superficially reasonable" part and ignored the much more serious parts of the testimony. signed, Rosguill 23:37, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
      Ok, having read through nearly every edit that BabbleOnto has made, I agree with the complainants that not only does BabbleOnto engage in sealioning, it appears to be almost exclusively what they do. The discussion at Talk:Brian Thompson (businessman)/Archive 2 exhibits perhaps even more concerning argumentation than the diffs provided in the initial report. Throughout these discussions, BabbleOnto tends to demand a standard of stating the obvious (with respect to the context of said sources) that is absurd, and continues to lawyer for such standards even when the situation becomes WP:1AM. When criticizing sources' ability to account for basic claims, I can find no examples of BabbleOnto themselves attempting to find sources that would resolve the issues they identify--this is uncollaborative behavior. There is a clear pattern of engaging in this behavior across recent US politics topics consistent with the scope of Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics/American politics. The only saving grace to BabbleOnto's track record is that none of this has translated into disruptive editing of actual articles, just unproductive engagement on talk pages. I am currently in favor of a topic ban from post-1992 American politics; if they are actually here to build an encyclopedia and not to provide a punching bag for debate club, they can use this opportunity to learn more constructive patterns of editing in topics that they are less personally invested in. signed, Rosguill 01:26, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
      Valereee in line with their follow-up response, I take Objective3000's comments as potentially a basis for community discussion rather than a call for protective action on the lab leak talk page right now. signed, Rosguill 21:47, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I have to agree, this looks like sealioning. BabbleOnto, you're new here, and I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt about your ability to learn to collaborate. WP works on collaboration and consensus, and sometimes consensus goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. You have to be willing to shrug, walk away, and go work on something else when consensus is against you. And you absolutely must not insist everyone else keep answering you until you're satisfied with their answers. I've seen editors at both the Thompson and the lab leak talks tell you they don't actually owe you an answer to your satisfaction.
    Do you think you can learn to do that? Because if you don't think you can, this may not be the right hobby for you.
    As an aside, I'm going to recommend what I always recommend to new editors who end up here: Contentious topics are a terrible place to learn. Go edit in noncontentious topics, where other editors are a lot less exhausted and have the energy to be more patient with new editors. Valereee (talk) 18:27, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    Tangential
    @Objective3000, hm, yes, and Talk:COVID-19 lab leak theory also has 37 archives, and even with archiving at 21 days, 20 sections. Do you think an ECR is something that talk page needs? That's not part of the authorized restrictions an individual admin can place...hm, and I'm not sure of the policy w/re most efficiently getting that done and wasting the fewest people's time. @Rosguill? Valereee (talk) 21:08, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    I would object to ECPing the talk page. COVID-19 isn't subject to ARBECR generally, though this specific article is protected. The purpose of protecting the page (in this case) is to push newer users to the talk page, where they can discuss changes they want made (such as by edit requests) and contribute towards consensus-building while not edit warring. Protecting talk pages is truly, truly a last resort. Ordinary good faith people would be entirely shut out and silenced—we'd not even get edit requests—and I frankly don't see anything near the level of disruption/LTA abuse that would justify jumping straight to WP:ECP. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 01:55, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
    @Red-tailed hawk, not ECP. ECR: non-EC are restricted from anything but making edit requests. Valereee (talk) 14:48, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
    I see. In any case, ECR is the sort of remedy that should be reserved for more or less when all else fails—it’s still super restrictive. If new users/inexperienced users are trying to contribute towards consensus-building on the talk page (or even if they’re doing ordinary confused new editor things), and aren’t edit warring, I don’t think we’d actually be preventing disruptive edits by enforcing ECR.
    Suppose someone in good-faith sees “anyone can edit”, and they want to edit something topical. But then they see that the page that they want to edit is protected. They read the explanation that appears after clicking the “view source” tab. They then read that they can discuss this page with others, click on the first blue link, and then make a section using the “add topic” button in order to start a discussion.
    “OK”, the newbie thinks, “maybe I will find someone else who agrees with me, or I’ll at least get some answer as to why the article is this way”. They leave their computer and come back in an hour. They then discover that their question has been removed by some random editor with edit summary “WP:ARBECR violation, user not WP:XC; malformed edit request” and find a contentious topics notice on their own user talk page, all because they don’t make a properly formatted edit request (i.e. “please change X to Y”). Or maybe they wont navigate the talk page history and they’ll angrily post that their earlier comment was deleted. Or maybe they just won’t come back. To top it off, nothing at any point in this process was obvious to them that such a requirement existed—there is no edit notice that says so, and so they couldn’t know.
    WP:ECR is WP:BITEy. It dissuades new voices from joining conversations, and it makes it somewhat hostile to true newbies. In particular, it dissuades people who, for example:
    1. Are Not hardcore/insane enough to deal with intense wiki-bureaucracy;
    2. Are unable to cope with handling unfamiliar wikitext markup when making edit requests for anything that is not a trivial word change, or who have abstract changes in mind more than concrete ones;
    3. Do not want to spend an hour of their time to figure out how to say the magic words to summon another editor to fix a typo.
    The chief way that ECR works is by making LTAs/sockmasters have to put on a lot of effort or make a lot of edits. This raises the (time) cost of socking, and it has the benefit of possibly exposing tells along the way. But that also means that we’re imposing the same thing on good-faith newbies.
    When deciding whether or not to impose ECR, we have to balance that it is extremely BITEy to good-faith newbies against its ability to prevent disruption. There are times where we are basically left to throw our hands up because of LTA/sockmaster abuse, and conclude that the tradeoff is worth it; the ArbCom has done this for certain contentious topics. But, the ArbCom had the wisdom to not enable ECR as a page sanction across all contentious topic areas—there is a very real tradeoff that needs to be really carefully considered. And I don’t the tradeoff leans towards embracing ECR here. — Red-tailed sock (Red-tailed hawk's nest) 15:48, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
    I'm don't think we need to have this discussion here and now, but I don't disagree it's bitey and needs to be used only where necessary. I was just asking the question of someone who is working at that article: is this an article talk where it's necessary? Valereee (talk) 17:45, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
    • BabbleOnto, are you planning to answer my questions above? Do you think you're able/willing to shrug, walk away, and go work on something else when consensus is against you? Are you able/willing to stop insisting everyone else keep answering you until you're satisfied with their answers? Valereee (talk) 13:26, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
      BabbleOnto's response understanding this as a suggestion to take a break from Misplaced Pages as a whole isn't quite what I was hoping to see. signed, Rosguill 17:22, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
      @BabbleOnto, an extended break doesn't solve the issues around understanding policy. An extended break from contentious topics -- while you edit in other topics and learn policy -- would be more helpful all around.
      @Rosguill, I'd support a tban, but is AP2 enough? It seems like COVID and fringe science need to be included? Valereee (talk) 17:22, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
      AP2 + COVID? I see the same behavior at the Brian Thompson article and Havana Syndrome, so COVID alone doesn't seem adequate. Oddly, the intersection of "medicine and politics" would appear to cover all affected topics but maybe that's too bespoke? signed, Rosguill 17:56, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

    Marlarkey

    Marlarkey p-blocked from Declaration of war and formally warned to be more mindful of policies, guidelines and best practices when editing CTOPs, particularly PIA signed, Rosguill 19:54, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Marlarkey

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    WeatherWriter (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Marlarkey (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBPIA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    1. 19 August 2024 - Mainspace PIA edit prior to EC status.
    2. 19 August 2024 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request and acknowledgement of aforementioned edit.
    3. 19 August 2024 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request.
    4. 21 November 2024 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request. Accused another editor of vandalism.
    5. 21 November 2024 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request. Says, "I don't give a stuff about what you or Israel say about the declaration."
    6. 21 November 2024 - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status. Accused editor of "vandalism" in edit summary.
    7. 21 November 2024 - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status. Accused editor of "vandalism" in edit summary.

    1. 13 January 2025 - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status.
    2. 13 January 2025 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request.
    3. 13 January 2025 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request..."Someone has reverted my removal of Israel - Hamas *AGAIN* so I've taken it out *AGAIN*."
    4. 13 January 2025 - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status.
    5. 13 January 2025 - Self-revert of direct previous mainspace reversion that was prior to EC status.
    6. 13 January 2024 - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status...Made while this enforcement request was being typed up. This reversion by Marlarkey is of an edit with the direct edit summary of "Per WP:ARBPIA". User is 100% disregarding CT requirements.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    N/A. No previous blocks or topic bans.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    at 15:29, 21 November 2024.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    User has been on Misplaced Pages (on and off) since at least January 2010. It seems there is a WP:CIR-related issue on ArbCom PIA/Contentious topics, given the very clear lack of ignorance of the ArbCom Notification and subsequent edit summary arguments. I do not necessarily believe a block will be of use in this case, due to this editor's on-and-off Misplaced Pages editing status (less than 500 edits since January 2010). Either a topic ban and/or a 1,000 EC status requirement (i.e. EC-status requirement is something higher than 500 edits) is being requested. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:36, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    • @Marlarkey: I want to keep assuming good faith, so I wanted to let you know that WP:ARBPIA is what we call "broadly constructed". If you read WP:PIA, it says, "These are the current arbitration remedies applicable to any pages and edits that could be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict." The edit you are attempting to me is related to the Arab-Israel conflict. The page itself does not have to be entirely about the war to be covered under the restrictions. Any edit that is at least, even slightly related to the conflict is covered under the restrictions. While the page is about declarations of war throughout history, the specific edit is related to whether the Israel-Hamas war was a declaration of war. That is obviously related to the conflict, given it specifically is in regard to the Israel-Hamas war. That is why the edits were reverted and why this violation report was filed. Hopefully that makes sense. Also, just a quick side-note, accusing other editors of vandalism is assuming bad faith and is not really how Misplaced Pages operates. You should always be assuming the other editors intents with good faith. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:50, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Marlarkey: We are all working together to create a better encyclopedia. No one is against you and we do wish for all to edit Misplaced Pages. The ArbCom restrictions require that you have (1) at least an account of 30 days old and (2) at least 500 edits, to be able to edit content anywhere on Misplaced Pages regarding the Israel-Hamas war. At the time of all the edits linked above, you did not have 500 edits on Misplaced Pages. You were roughly at 490. At the time of this, you now have over 500 edits, which means you could now edit content regarding the Israel-Hamas war. That said, this report was made because of the several edits you made prior to reaching the 500 edit requirement.
    Please understand this is for the edits that you made which were in clear violation of the policy, which requires you to have 500 edits prior to editing anything even remotely related to the conflict. This report was not that you are incorrect with your removal of the content. Not at all. This report is because you removed the content before you were allowed to (i.e. the 500-edit mark). Please understand we all are on the same-side here and no one is vandalizing anything. Once this is resolved, I would be more than happy to calmly discuss the content changes with you. I hope you can understand that this report is specifically because you made the changes before you were allowed to and not at all regarding the content in those changes. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 00:52, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Rosguill: After my last reply, I realized I went 105 words over the 500-word limit. I would like to request that 105-word extension (so I do not have to reword or remove the last reply I made). I do not plan to reply again as I think everything I needed to say and link to has been said and linked to. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 00:56, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Marlarkey

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Marlarkey

    WeatherWriter (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is repeatedly reverting edits which are removing information outside the scope of the page in question. My edits are validly citated within the scope of the page. WeatherWriter (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has cited WP:ARBPIA but that is not relevant to THIS article which is not a Palestine-Israel article. This article is not a contentious topic - it is factual.

    My edits are WP:NPOV. This article is about declarations of war - the opening statement states "A declaration of war is a formal act by which one state announces existing or impending war activity against another." 1. Hamas is not a nation state - So Israel vs Hamas should not be included in the article 2. Hezbollah is not a nation state - So Israel vs Hezbollah should not be included in the article 3. Russia vs Ukraine are both nation states - the question then is whether there has been a declaration of war.

    In the case 1 & 2, the removal of these two entries is WP:NPOV and the inclusion or otherwise in this article is in no way a comment on the conflict in question - only whether they constitute a declaration of war by one nation state on another. Which they do not because they are nation states.

    In the case of 3, the inclusion of Russia vs Ukraine only relies on whether there has been a declaration of war. The citation I gave is documented evidence of Russia announcing that a state of war exists between Russia and Ukraine.

    I suggest that by taking the action they have that the complainant is the one acting in a that asserts a political opinion about the conflict


    The reference by Weatherwriter to 21 November 2024 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Is only a partial quote - what I actually said was "I don't give a stuff about what you or Israel say about the declaration. I care about whether it is in the scope of this page." The key is the final point - the scope of this article and whether the edits are validly cited in accordance with the topic of the article...namely a list of declarations of war.

    Weatherwriter reversions of my edits serve to support a political opinion on a page which is about facts.

    I'm pretty angry about being accused in this way when MY edits were factually based and neutral point of view, whereas by reverting my edits it does precisely the opposite, allowing contentious and politically biased information to infect the page. GRRRRRRrrr

    Marlarkey (talk) 23:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)


    On another point, following me reviewing the information in this complaint by WeatherWriter... "If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)" The complainant cites a link to information which I have JUST accessed and have never seen before just now. I was NOT aware of this information so it is false to suggest that this constitutes evidence that I was aware.

    Again this makes me angry at the accusations being made against me. If you don't want people editing and contributing to wikipedia then please just say so. GRRR Marlarkey (talk) 00:35, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    • I give up... I'm being accused and being told off for responding to the accusation. I don't know anything about this procedure, have never seen this page before and know nothing about how this works because its new to me.
      But I get it - I'm not part of the club that decides things... so I'll let you get on with that. Marlarkey (talk) 00:47, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    (Moved from WeatherWriter's section I get it - you'd rather call me out by this procedure than have an accurate encyclopaedia article. You've made accusations against me and put me through this over restrictions that I knew nothing about and policies I knew nothing about. I simply came across something inaccurate and followed what I understood to be WP principles and made an objectively accurate edit.
    So now the end result is that an inaccurate article containing a politically biased assertion is going to stay live. Marlarkey (talk) 02:24, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    Result concerning Marlarkey

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    Marlarkey, you have gone a bit over your 500 word allotment for responses. Please do not comment further unless directly asked to. I will remove an additional reply that was both over your limit and in the wrong section. signed, Rosguill 00:40, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    Weather Event Writer, extension granted as that's essentially what Marlarkey has already taken. signed, Rosguill 01:07, 14 January 2025 (UTC)


    Ok, having now reviewed Declaration of war's page history, its talk page discussion, and Marlarkey's contributions more generally, I find that:

    • Marlarkey has repeatedly violated WP:PIA at Declaration of war since having received a CTOP notice
    • Irrespective of whether it is correct or not to include the Israel-Hamas war, Israel-Hezbollah war, or wars between states and non-state entities more broadly, WeatherWriter's edits to the page are plainly not vandalism, which has a specific (and serious) meaning on Misplaced Pages
    • It appears to be a long-term status quo to include non-state entities provided that there is a citation to some sort of formal declaration of war, and the page's inclusion of conflicts involving non-states Ambazonia and SADR do not appear to have been challenged at any point.
    • Marlarkey is incorrect to assert that their edit is objectively accurate. Whether the edit is accurate is subject to community consensus, and the talk page arguments in favor of inclusion base themselves on RS reporting which is a valid, policy-compliant argument. Marlarkey's arguments that a declaration of war can only occur be between two states do not make any reference to a reliable source stating this; while that text is currently in the lead of the article, it does not have a citation nor is it clear that any citation in the article directly backs this.
    • In light of discussion at Talk:Declaration of war, which at this point shows multiple editors in favor of keeping the Hamas and Hezbollah wars, only Marlarkey firmly for removing them, and one other editor calling for discussion as of December 31st, Marlarkey's edits to unilaterally remove the entries in January amount to slow-motion edit warring
    • Given that Marlarkey has had an account for well over a decade, has edited a wide variety of topics, hit 500 edits while this was happening, does not appear to have otherwise shown interest in Israel/Palestine topics, and that the edits at Declaration of war don't fit into any clear POV-warrior pattern, I don't think that pulling extended-confirmed or issuing a PIA topic ban would help.

    I'm thus inclined to suggest an indefinite partial block from Declaration of war (but not its talk page) as a regular admin action for edit warring, and a logged warning to be mindful of CTOP standards. signed, Rosguill 04:10, 14 January 2025 (UTC

    • As Marlarkey stated that they were unaware of CT, I wanted to confirm that I double checked and found that the CT notice was properly left in November. If Marlarkey chose not to read it, well, that's rather on him—we can only leave messages, we can't force people to read them. I would otherwise agree with Rosguill's assessment. Seraphimblade 12:00, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I entirely endorse Rosguill's reading of this. I am not happy about Marlarkey's approach to our restrictions, but I don't see this as EC gaming, and I can't see how pulling EC rights could be justified at this stage. As such I endorse the proposed page block and logged warning. Marlarkey, you seem to believe that because you are right on the substance you can ignore process and guidelines - that simply isn't true. The arbitration committee has consistently held that being right isn't enough; you need to be able to edit within the scope of our policies. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:10, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Pretty much everything Rosquill said. Marlarkey, it doesn't look like you have a huge amount of experience working in WP:CTOPs. I'm sorry you're finding this upsetting, but CTOPs are a whole 'nother world, and you're either going to have to learn how to nonproblematically work there, or not work there. Valereee (talk) 18:39, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
      FWIW, the CTOP warning was left on your talk page. You've got your archiving set so aggressively that you may be missing a lot of messages, and it's completely plausible that you missed this one, which was only on your talk for two days, and after it was left you didn't edit for a month. However, we do assume that if you've got your archiving set that aggressively, you're keeping on top of anything important by checking your notifications to make sure you didn't miss anything.
      You can probably prevent this happening in future by having your talk page archive no more frequently than you typically go between editing sessions, leaving maybe the five most recent messages unarchived, and/or being sure to check your notifications when logging back in. Any one of those three and you've have likely seen the notification. Valereee (talk) 18:51, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    DanielVizago

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning DanielVizago

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Schazjmd (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:23, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    DanielVizago (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender_and_sexuality#Final_decision
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 29 Dec 2024 Added Category:Misandry to a BLP, after CTOP notification and several talk page messages notifying DanielVizago that the category is not to be applied to articles about individuals (per category description, This category is for issues relating to misandry. It must not include articles about individuals, groups or media that are allegedly misandrist.);
    2. 4 Jan 2025 and 5 Jan 2025 Removing sourced content from Misogyny that states misandry is not a major an issue as misogyny;
    3. 5 Jan 2025 Changing content in Male privilege to emphasize misandry (reverted by another editor with edit summary rv, poorly sourced (sources supplemented by WP:OR and WP:SYNTH), earlier version was better, closer to sources);
    4. 13 Jan 2025 Added "bimisandry" to Biphobia, citing 4 sources, none of which include that term;
    5. 14 Jan 2025, weird edits adding Category:Female rapists with piped names to unrelated articles, then added those names directly to the category page;
    6. 14 Jan 2025 restored the "bimisandry" edit to Biphobia, then added a 5th ref that includes the term but is just a blog; I left a 4th-level warning on talk page;
    7. 14 Jan 2025 (after final warning) adds ] and ] to Hurtcore; those two individuals don't have articles and there is no mention in this article of their charges or convictions, even though the category solely consists of articles of female individuals who have been convicted of rape in a court of law.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    • None
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Above diffs are all edits after the CTOP notification was provided. Before then, DanielVizago misapplied Category:Misandry to 46 articles, which is what caught my attention. Their attempts to add "bimisandry" to Biphobia started 16 Dec 2024. On 28 Dec 2024, DanielVizago added a lot of content to Supremacism about misandry, which another editor reverted with edit summary remove recently added pro-fringe section and put back the excerpt. Most of their 122 edits have been reverted by multiple editors.

    Before the level 4 warning, I tried guiding DanielVizago away from CTOP; they don't engage on their talk page. (They've posted there once, to say "thanks" in response to a warning.) With their refusal to communicate, poor sourcing, and non-NPOV edits, I don't think they should be editing in this topic area. Schazjmd (talk) 23:23, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning DanielVizago

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by DanielVizago

    Statement by caeciliusinhorto

    Since this report was opened, DanielVizago has continued to make questionable edits adding articles to Category:Female rapists.

    • Possibly the worst edit, categorising a living person who has been accused (but not charged, let alone convicted) of sexual assault as a rapist (cf. WP:BLPCRIMINAL)
    • This edit adds the category to a disambiguation page on the basis of one of the people listed on that page, who had in fact been convicted not of rape but of sexual activity with a minor
    • this and this edit categorise two sexually-motivated murderers as rapists despite no evidence that they ever raped anyone in the article (cf. WP:CATV)

    Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 10:53, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Simonm223

    Might be wise, as long as doing so wouldn't interfere with evidence, to get a revision deletion on some of the diffs presented above that make unfounded statements about BLPs. Simonm223 (talk) 18:55, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning DanielVizago

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I've p-blocked from article space to see if we can get this editor communicating. Valereee (talk) 12:35, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I want to hear what they have to say, but I'm going to need a fairly convincing explanation as to how they're here to build an encyclopedia and not to POV-push men's rights activism content where it doesn't belong. The IDHT and spammy behavior and the BLP vios on top of that aren't super encouraging, either, but if they decide to communicate, I'm happy to reassess. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 22:56, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
      I'd like to hear what they have to say, too, but I'm also not averse to letting this archive with no further action since the p-block is an indef. I've left another message at their talk. Valereee (talk) 13:41, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

    USERNAME

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning USERNAME

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Bamdad bahar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:36, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    USERNAME (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    <In editing Alexander's family and descendants' information, editor Prince Tehran keeps deleting edits and reverting to unfounded information. A new reference has been cited in Persian, and there has been considerable research conducted to confirm that Prince Alexander had two sons (not recorded in Georgian texts - for obvious political reasons). I am respectfully requesting that this editor(Prince Tehran) NOT be allowed to make these changes (or undo the edits). In a very practical sense, its a little ridiculous to suggest that Alexander had two children in his 50's but somehow did not have any when he was younger. The data from Iranian sources is correct. !--- Here and at the end, replace Prince Tehran with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions Add topic