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<!--PLEASE PLACE NEW REQUESTS BELOW THIS NOTICE -->
== Littleolive oil and Edith Sirius Lee 2 ==


==Lemabeta==
{{hat|1=Edith Sirius Lee 2 is banned for six months from the topic of Transcendental Meditation. ] (]) 22:43, 12 December 2010 (UTC) }}
{{hat|{{u|Lemabeta}} has acknowledged the warnings here to take more care and stay well clear of articles from which they are restricted from editing. Further violations are very likely to lead to sanctions, up to and including an indefinite block. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 12:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC) }}
===Request concerning Littleolive oil and Edith Sirius Lee 2===
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
; User requesting enforcement : ] (] · ] · ]) 08:06, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


===Request concerning Lemabeta===
; User against whom enforcement is requested :
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|EF5}} 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:{{userlinks|Littleolive oil}}
:{{userlinks|Edith Sirius Lee 2}}


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Lemabeta}}<p>{{ds/log|Lemabeta}}</p>
;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : "that editor repeatedly or seriously violates the behavioural standards or editorial processes of Misplaced Pages in connection with these articles."


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
; Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
:In this dif from Olive she refers to directs quotes from JAMA as "your personal biases". This is against ], ] and the current ArbCom remedies. She has current restrictions in place here .


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
: In these difs from Edith and my views are referred to as "paranoid" A warning was given here for this previous edit where she states "Doc James destroyed years of work". This user has subsequently changed user names to ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : Topic area ban for Edith, Warning for Olive
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
# - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.



;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:This users have an admitted ] in that she admits to practicing TM. They edit this subject area primarily or exclusively.
:On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:(Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:: <small>Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. ] (]/]) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)</small>
::(RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning Lemabeta===
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
:Olive
:Edith


====Statement by Lemabeta====
===Discussion concerning Littleolive oil===
Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --] (]) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


:Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are '''related but distinct concepts'''. An ''ethnographic group'' refers to a '''community of people''' defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, ''cultural heritage'' refers to the *''practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past''. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
===Statement by Littleolive oil===
:So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. ] (]) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
Mainspace edits per "They edit this subject area primarily or exclusively."
::In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) '''emerges from''' ethnographic groups but '''does not define the group itself'''. ] (]) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. ] (]) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. ] (]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
Clarifications and context per the TM arbitration:
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
*All editors on the list created by EdJohnston, as well as Jmh649 (Doc James) and Will Beback were parties in the TM arbitration.
*All editors were included in the decisions and remedies
*After months of deliberation and multiple pages of evidence, no single editor, with one exception, and no so-called group was found to be any more or less at blame than any other.
*No COI was found/named in the arbitration
*The TM arbitration did not in any way identify editors as belonging to "groups", but treated editors as individuals.
*The TM arbitration discretionary sanction statement cited by Doc James, says a warning is required (bold). The full statement says:
{{quotation| Any uninvolved administrator may, in his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor editing Transcendental meditation or other articles concerning Transcendental meditation and related biographies of living people, broadly defined, '''if, after a warning,''' that editor repeatedly or seriously violates the behavioural standards or editorial processes of Misplaced Pages in connection with these articles. }}
- Per the TM arbitration I was not warned, nor does one strongly worded statement constitute," repeatedly or seriously violates the behavioural standards or editorial processes."


===Result concerning Lemabeta===
'''Statement:'''
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
-->
* I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under ] from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". ] (] • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:<br><nowiki>;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]</nowiki><br><nowiki><!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---></nowiki> ] (]/]) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*{{tq| Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed"}} @]: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. ] (]/]) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Note that I've deleted ] as a clear G5 violation. I think ] is a bit more of a questionable G5. ] (]/]) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared&nbsp;... traditions" and "shared&nbsp;... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". ] (]/]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. ] (]/]) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. ] (]/]) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. ] (]/]) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: They were "reviously given&nbsp;... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. ] (]/]) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
* {{re|Lemabeta}} Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words {{tqq| highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity}}. There's a reason we use the words "]" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?){{pb}}This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*{{u|EF5}}, I don't understand your {{tq|"Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above"}} statement, can you please explain what it refers to? ]? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
:That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by ]. I'll AGF that they ''were'' accidental, but OTOH, they surely ''ought'' to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? ] &#124; ] 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
::{{u|EF5}}, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are ], and the block log only logs blocks. ] &#124; ] 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
*It seems that the general consensus here is to treat this as a final warning, and Lemabeta has acknowledged it as such. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within the next day or so, I will close as such. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 01:16, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==Boy shekhar==
My comment in the TM talk page was not a response to the JAMA article. It was a response to Doc James' history of personalizing comments, lack of assuming good faith, and hisj insistence on editing on a body of research from a singular point of view. Its clear from this thread,that I wasn’t sure what James was referring to. My intent was not to offend another editor but to express serious concern to an editor who has a history of unilateral editing, (even in the face of an RfC, where he split content off the main article including the TM research, on the second day of an RfC, while another solution had been suggested by an uninvolved editor, in the face of editor disagreement, effectively preempting the RfC) . However, the comment was strongly worded, and since it offended I sincerely apologize and will strike the statement.
{{hat
| result = Blocked by Rosguill as a regular administrative action. ] (]) 23:57, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Boy shekhar===
'''On three previous occasions I have asked James to assume good faith:'''
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Daniel Quinlan}} 06:34, 11 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Boy shekhar}}<p>{{ds/log|Boy shekhar}}</p>
Cmt:Warning:


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
Cmt:Warning:


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
Cmt:Warning:
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
*{{diff2|1268704307|This edit}} violates the topic ban because it is in the topic area. It's also based on an unreliable source and the section header includes a derogatory term.


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
'''Concerns I have with Doc James' editing behaviour'''
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
*{{diff2|972891251|Here}} is the topic ban for {{tpq|persistent insertion of ], use of unreliable sources or no sources at all, and ]}}.


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
'''Personalizing comments on the TM article talk page:'''
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin|Doug Weller}}.
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on (see the system log linked to above).


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
*"Well it seems that TM publishes a huge amount which they like to brag about little of the work has any real scientific substance to it."
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
*I've edited the article so I am involved. ] (]) 06:34, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
:{{ping|Vanamonde93}} No, I don't think you're being too harsh. I think you're right. My thinking was that if I was uninvolved, I would have blocked them under ] so I sleepily submitted it here last night instead of ANI, which is what I should have done. ] (])


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
*"We do know that peoples who lively-hood and identity depend on TM disagree with a major report that found it either ineffective… "
*


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
*"You will need to convince Misplaced Pages editors who are not practitioners of TM the validity of your argument…."
===Discussion concerning Boy shekhar===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Boy shekhar====
*"Yes the three of you agree but you also all practice TM. Now please get some outside input."


====Statement by Vanamonde====
*"You and a number of editors who practice TM keep changing it. There have been no attempts by those who practice TM to get outside supporting opinions. It seems that only those who practice TM agree with the wording presented."
This user hasn't edited for 4.5 years since they were TBANned, and none of their 31 edits show any ability to follow our PAGs. At the risk of sounding harsh, an extended AE discussion is a waste of time; a passing admin should indef them (I cannot, I am INVOLVED on most of the content they have edited). ] (]) 23:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)


:{{re|Daniel Quinlan}} Apologies if that sounded like a criticism of you, it wasn't intended as such: I'm just advocating for the first uninvolved admin who sees this to block and close. ] (]) 00:14, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
*"Some have a desire to present the topic in a non NPOV manner with TM meaning only the technique in line with statements of official TM material.."
*Many more diffs if wanted or needed


===Result concerning Boy shekhar===
'''Not assuming good faith:'''
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
-->
*Vanamonde93's assessment is spot on, the edit in question is the kind of gross violation of ] we indef people for on the spot even when it's not a TBAN violation. Blocked as a regular admin action. Although I will say, without knowing how exactly Vanamonde93 is involved here, this is so far beyond the pale that they could have gone ahead and blocked on an "any reasonable admin" basis. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 04:49, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==שלומית ליר==
*"I have the impression of efforts to suppress information regarding the TM movement with a desire to give greater emphasis to the technique."
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning שלומית ליר===
*"I personally see KB list as just a specific selection of sites to support his POV."
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Smallangryplanet}} 17:24, 11 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|שלומית ליר}}<p>{{ds/log|שלומית ליר}}</p>
'''Misrepresentation/POV of research/Deletion sourced content on research:'''


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
(Violations of TM arbitration)
;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation of ''how'' these edits violate it :


ShlomitLir (שלומית ליר) created their account back in 2014. The breakdown of their edits is as follows:
*Deletes material from a 2007 book published by McGrawHill Medical. The material was sourced to a chapter authored by three scientists from the National Institutes of Health and an assistant professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia University Medical Center.


*2014 to 2016: no edits.
*Removes material sourced to a 2008 research review in BMC Psychiatry and a 2006 research review in the journal Ethnicity and Disease.
*2017 to 2019: 1 edit per year. None related to PIA.
*2022: 7 edits. Mostly in their userspace.
*2023: 21 edits. Again, mostly in their userspace. Made two edits in the talk page of ] complaining about its content and calling it .
* 2024: Started editing after a 10 month break at the end of October.
**Made 51 edits in October and 81 edits in November (copyedits, adding links, minor edits).
**In December, that number rose up to almost 400, including 116 in December 6 alone and 98 in December 7. Became ECR that day.
**Immediately switched to editing in PIA, namely in the ] article where they with an unclear image with a dubious caption, and without providing a reason why.
**They also edited the ] article, with a caption not supported by the source (replaced by yet with a contextless caption when the previous image was removed) and WP:UNDUE content .
**they also in the second AfD for ] despite never having interacted with that article or its previous AfD. They have barely surpassed 500 edits, but the gaming is obvious, highlighted by the sudden switch to editing in PIA.


More importantly, there's the issue of POV pushing. I came across authored by them on Ynet, once again complaining about what they perceive as an anti Israeli bias on Misplaced Pages. They have also authored a report for the World Jewish Congress covering the same topic. The report can be seen in full . I think that someone with this clear POV agenda shouldn't be near the topic.
*At the same time, he discredits research on TM (and violates WP:MEDRS) by quoting a 1985 book on religion that claims "that the original findings had been false or exaggerated."


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
'''Comment:'''
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on and re-iterated on (see the system log linked to above).
*Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin|Femke}}.


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
This is the second time James has brought me to AE on charges that are misrepresentations. I was taken to AE, restricted by Future Perfect At Sunrise and the case was closed before I could make a comment. I was restricted based on making two reverts is two months. Neither of these requests is right or fair, nor serves the time of editors who come to these AE/N in any capacity.
Adding some additional comments on 2025-01-16: On top of POV issues, the user has a number of tweets that appear to be a , , , and . They've also been . If this - combined with the tweets, the forms, the op-ed and the report to the WJC, all under this user's name (that they also use to edit Misplaced Pages - this is ) isn't a clear cut case of canvassing, I don't know what is. ] (]) 20:00, 16 January 2025 (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
I want to make a point very clear per the comment by Edith Sirius Lee. I find these attack situations ugly and distasteful. I commented on James because I had to, not because I wanted to, in efforts to explain why the statement he brought to this page was not an assumption of bad faith but a recognition of a position that is not enabling collaborative discussion, and that follows three previous requests to move on to discussion that focuses on the edits not the editors. My preference is to try to work contention out on a talk page.


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
Both Will and James know that the Arbitration stipulated an editor must be given a warning prior to asking for enforcement. Yet neither extended a warning for what they considered to be a problematic comment, and both suggested sanctions based on one comment. While I stand by my comment, I don't ever wish to offend anyone, and I would have quickly removed or struck the comment had I seen that It was offensive rather than what I intended it to be, a strongly worded request for an editor to look at his many-times, stated position and to try to delineate his personal opinions from his editing.


===Discussion concerning שלומית ליר===
The past AE sanction was false and unfair, and is being used here too, as it has in other places to suggest,"this is a problematic editor so lets just cut to the chase and hang her."
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by שלומית ליר====
Like all editors I'm sure I've made mistakes in my editing, but creating one false sanction on top of another is creating a lie about me and what I do. I assume this is not what James or Will meant to do, but this is, with out a doubt, what is happening. (I'll add diffs)
I believe contents of this filing to be in clear policy violation and have reached out to the arbitration committee for further clarification before commenting further.] (]) 14:34, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
: I was given clarification from an admin regarding my concerns and will now be drafting a response. Thank you for your patience. ] (]) 21:19, 18 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by Thebiguglyalien====
As an editor, I am doing everything I can to support a collegial, collaborative editing environment, and to move away from convoluted discussion, that includes actively helping to draft a recent RfC suggestion section, asking a neutral outside admin. to come in to gauge consensus when there was disagreement, applying for two mediations, and starting the preliminaries for a third.
This is the first ARBPIA report since the proposed decision ] and it's specifically a matter of POV pushing, responding admins should be aware of the "]" remedy. The committee is discussing whether to implement a remedy stating that admins at AE are "empowered and encouraged to consider a topic ban" purely for biased editing. So far, the argument against is that it's redundant because AE admins are already supposed to do this. ] (]) 05:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-03-29/Special_report


====Statement by Selfstudier====
'''To Killer Chihuahua''': Thank you for your comment. I think what you say is an important statement for all of us on any contentious article. Don't run to a "parent" to admonish, but keep working at being collaborative which means on the most fundamental level, treating others with respect. My style is to avoid incivility, but I edited too late when I was tired and my frustration caught up with me. So you words are very well taken. And I'll try to keep my hands off the keyboard when I'm tired.(] (]) 18:16, 8 December 2010 (UTC))
To the extent that it is relevant, the WJC report was discussed at ]. ] (]) 11:25, 12 January 2025 (UTC)


====Comment by Will Beback==== ====Statement by starship.paint (2)====
One of the principles from the arbitration concerned assuming good faith:
*'''''Decorum and assumptions of good faith'''''
*''Misplaced Pages users are expected to behave reasonably, calmly, and courteously in their interactions with other users. Unseemly conduct, such as ], ], ], ], ], and ], is prohibited. Making unsupported accusations of such misconduct by other editors, particularly where this is done in repeatedly or in a bad-faith attempt to gain an advantage in a content dispute, is also unacceptable.''


I would to like to raise at ], where there had been an existing unsourced paragraph ({{tq|On the morning of October 7, a tour minibus...}}) that שלומית ליר added to ( / ) from the ]. '''The reference is relevant, but I believe it may not verify every detail in the Battle of Sderot paragraph''' (e.g. "Netivot", "Holocaust survivors"). The reference contains a short paragraph of text and a video that is 4:21 long. I can't watch the video in the reference, but I believe it is this same video that is 4:20 long which contains the same screenshot as the reference, on the same topic. Most of the video is an interview of the daughter of a dead victim who was on the bus (the daughter had been on the phone with the victim), except for 1:58 to 2:13 which appears to be a quote from the bus driver. The publisher themselves do not have too much reporting in their own voice (on the video), yet this reference was used to cite a paragraph entirely stated in Wikivoice. No attribution was made to the relative or the bus driver, or to the publisher. I can't be totally sure though, due to unfamiliarity with Hebrew. '''] (] / ])''' 13:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
The remedies instruct uninvolved admins to the enforce the listed principles:
*'''''Guidance for uninvolved administrators'''''
*'' Uninvolved administrators are invited to monitor the articles in the ] to enforce compliance by editors with, in particular, the ] outlined in this case. Enforcing administrators are instructed to focus on fresh and clear-cut matters arising after the closure of this case rather than on revisiting historical allegations.''
If uninvolved admins think this is a clear-cut case of assuming bad faith then it would be appropriate to enforce compliance using the discretionary sanctions. &nbsp; <b>]&nbsp; ]&nbsp; </b> 09:29, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by xDanielx====
: (Moved from admins section): I was caught by surprise by this filing, but I believe there is relevant evidence to present here. I think the best thing would be to put this case on hold for a few days to collect and present that material before making a determination. Or, to withdraw it and re-post it shortly. &nbsp; <b>]&nbsp; ]&nbsp; </b> 14:00, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{yo|Arcticocean}} I don't really see how NPOV can be read as requiring edits which support both sides of a controversy. Our content policies don't impose any positive duties; they only tell us what not to do. The text of the policy doesn't support the notion that a ''pattern'' of edits could be in violation, even if no particular edit is in violation.


In principle, such a pattern of edits could violate the , but I don't believe this board has ever enforced it. If it were to be enforced, I think it should be for more serious violations like the double standards that e.g. ] attempted to demonstrate, rather than mere opinion-driven editing which applies to the vast majority of CTOP editors. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 03:11, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
===Comment by Edith Sirius Lee===
Is this officially an AE about Fladrif, TimidGuy and me as well? Since the issue is the lack of progression at the content level, should not admins consider the attitude of all involved editors toward consensus at the content level. @Tijfo098, the adjective "paranoid" was qualifying content (in sources), not editors. Also, the "independently done" is about content. TimidGuy also shared the same opinion about the "independently done". It is just a content dispute. ] (]) 14:23, 4 December 2010 (UTC)


==== Statement by Hemiauchenia ====
{{Collapse top | Technical request to move a misplaced comment}}
This user has engaged in off-wiki canvassing regarding the IP conflict. Take the following recent tweet from the 12 January
I respectfully request that Will Beback respects the following guideline in the section below: "This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above." I will remove this comment after that. ] (]) 14:26, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
For posterity in case it is deleted it contains the following remarks: {{quote|If you can't handle the facts, just delete them Propaganda on
{{Collapse bottom}}
@Misplaced Pages includes targeting Israel, demonizing it, and erasing inconvenient truths, from falsifying war outcomes to deleting Israeli inventions and attempting to erase the reality of Palestinian suicide bombers.}}
==== Comments by others about the request concerning Littleolive oil ====
Along with this is a screenshot of the current AfD ]. People are of course allowed to be caustic about Misplaced Pages off-wiki, but calling out a specific AfD with highly charged rhetoric, essentially inciting canvassing seems out of line. ] (]) 02:05, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
Gadzooks, someone please give ] a break from the endless hair-splittingly circular arguments and misrepresentation of sources by the proponents (mostly). TM is a form of ], so I consider myself ] despite not having edited there. - ] <small>(])</small> 16:46, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
: For those concerned that this might be outing, שלומית ליר is very open about their real life identity on their userpage. See (). If you reveal your real identity on Misplaced Pages, your tweets about Misplaced Pages on your Twitter account connected to your real-life identity are fair game to mention. There's also reverse confirmation in this tweet . ] (]) 02:46, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
* I would like to see more than that one dif. One dif does not a pattern make. ]<small><sup>]</sup>]</small> 18:27, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by Cdjp1====
; Comment by Tijfo098
As we seem to be ok to pull evidence from the statements of the editor in question, they have also commented more recently about () in response to a question of if Misplaced Pages can be "saved". -- ] (]) 23:22, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
Selective quotation from ]:


====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
Olive: "You clearly are attempting to present the pejorative view."
It has been several days. Perhaps שלומית ליר could clarify whether their belief about the way Misplaced Pages works turned out to be a true belief or a false belief so that this report can progress. ] (]) 09:07, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
DocJames: "Some people who practice TM says it allows them to fly and have eternal health."
Olive: "You are conflating your personal bias with use of sources."


====Statement by (username)====
While observing the proportions, this situation appears not dissimilar from that of ], who while right about the core science issue related to ], nevertheless chooses the most strident language to proclaim it, and actually manages to support his choice of words with citations (usually page xx out of a long amicus brief of affidavit by a major researcher or science organization), and hardly ever agrees to a compromise on the language regardless of what language other major science orgs use. Ironically, Destinero is the one usually dragged to admin boards for this; ANI, because there was no arbitration case on that topic.
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning שלומית ליר===
To conclude, there may be POV pushing at work here, but it doesn't seem to me from that discussion that it's only from one side. ] (]) 19:44, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*Users are allowed to have a POV - it's a rare user indeed who edits a contentious topic without having some strong opinions about it. For conduct to be actionable at AE it needs to be an actual policy violation. The misleading use of images doesn't rise to the level of AE action in my view, and judging whether an addition like is UNDUE is not within AE's purview, as long as it is supported by the source. ] (]) 23:22, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
*:The PIA5 remedy hasn't passed yet, and its interpretation is as yet unclear to me: but in my view we are already empowered to deal with biased editing, in the sense of editing that violates NPOV. What I'm not willing to do is sanction on the basis of someone's opinions alone; they have to be shown to have let their opinions get in the way of following our PAGs. ] (]) 07:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
*::I see some evidence - based on Arcticocean's digging below - that שלומית ליר is using images without sufficient care, but I don't see that rising to the level of a sanction. As to the rest, xDanielx is correct - nowhere do our policies require treating both sides of a conflict equally - indeed our PAGs discourage false balance. Those diffs could be actionable if they individually or collectively violate policy, but I have yet to see evidence of that. ] (]) 03:22, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::The off-wiki canvassing is a problem. It merits a warning at least, I don't know if the formality thereof matters. If there was evidence that שלומית ליר was aware of ] I would consider something more stringent. ] (]) 17:39, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
* While I understand {{u|Vanamonde93}}'s concerns, I think that we are required to assess the totality of the user's contributions. Contentious topic editors are required to uphold NPOV. ] places an obligation to {{xtn|Within contentious topics,… edit carefully and constructively… and… adhere to the ]}}. The linked page provides that {{xtn|Misplaced Pages is written from a neutral point of view… We strive for articles with an impartial tone that document and explain major points of view, giving due weight for their prominence}}. If an editor is ''only'' adding content that significantly favours one or the other side to the conflict, this is incompatible with their contentious topic obligation. That is because an editor making ''only'' one-sided edits will simply not be taking the necessary steps to ensure that the ''whole article'' is written from a neutral point of view. As their number of one-sided edits increases, the likelihood decreases that the editor is ensuring our content is neutral and impartial. Once we reach the point of being sure that they are not attempting to ensure neutrality of content, we can conclude the editor is not meeting their contentious topics obligations and we can issue a sanction. This can only be assessed with hindsight and by looking at the editor's contributions as a whole. ] 20:21, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Assessing the topic area contributions of the respondent (שלומית ליר) since they became extended-confirmed {{logid|166341641|at 17:33, 8 December 2024}}, there is cause for concern. I counted 19 edits to the area conflict. Taken together, they significantly skew the articles negatively against the opposing side of the conflict:
::* ].
::* ].
::* ] which was perhaps casting doubt on the relevant section, ''Massacre of pensioners'', and ].
::* ], therefore giving greater weight to the claims, in a context where the claims were already described at considerable length; ]; ].
::* ], then ], both to the first line of the article.
::* ] and ].
::* On the talk pages, there has been a ] although I would be prepared to look past that (it was like meeting like). I am skipping a few further and insignificant talk page comments.
::* There are then edits to ]: ]; ]. At ], there is then an expansion, again of the article lead, ] (]).
:: Assessing the edits as a whole, it is difficult not to conclude that the respondent user is failing to meet their contentious topics obligation to edit neutrally in this topic area. As the number of edits is so far limited, if a sanction is imposed, it could justifiably be light-touch. ] 20:34, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::: {{re|xDanielx}} Thanks for commenting. Most of the edits do not have a neutral, encyclopedic POV. There is an effort to influence our articles away from neutrally describing the subject without taking sides, contrary to ]. Even if each edit in isolation is insufficient for sanctioning, taken ''as a whole'' the edits show an inability or unwillingness to edit neutrally. One non-neutral edit shouldn't be sanctioned; twenty is a different story. This is not about the ''percentage'' of biased edits but about the weight or amount of them. Therefore, the assessment wouldn't really change even had the editor made some 'neutral' edits along the way. I'm happy to concede that editors cannot be compelled to balance edits of one bias with edits of another, but I don't think that comes into it. In a nutshell, this is about ]. ] 08:40, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*The offwiki canvassing is a problem...{{u|שלומית ליר}}, you're fairly inexperienced here. Were you aware ] is not allowed? ] (]) 12:59, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*:For transparency, שלומית ליר reached out to me, and I explained multiple policy and advised her to go ahead and respond here without waiting for individual feedback from her email to arbcom, which may or may not happen. ] (]) 22:40, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
*I take it that per {{u|Barkeep49}}'s brief oversighting of potentially-sensitive content in this report (]), and then restoration of the same (]), concerns of outing have been investigated and the report can proceed on its merits? <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 19:14, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*:That's correct. I got a request, I didn't really feel it was OUTING, but as I indicated in my edit summary OS is a tool of first resort. I consulted with the OS listserv and received some responses quickly agreeing with me and so I unsuppressed and restored the material. ] (]) 19:39, 16 January 2025 (UTC)


==Luganchanka==
P.S.: I read some of the context for that thread above where Doc cites ] (whose views on the world are highly correlated with his current employer) to say that "Yes I have found a few sources that share my main stream scientific point of view regarding TM and could find many more... " That was funny not in the least because the words "fiercely polemical" are in the first sentence of a NYT book review of one of Stark's books: . ] (]) 19:57, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Luganchanka===
;Regading EdJohnston's 4-way ban proposal:
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Hemiauchenia}} 20:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
After reading the unarchived talk page there, I think ] can be justifiably topic banned for repeatedly breaching decorum esp. calling skeptic views of TM "paranoid", and for general absurd lawyering e.g. regarding the word "independently", but I don't see evidence for banning the others listed by EdJohnson. I'm particularly bewildered by the suggestion to ban ] as TM proponent; see ]. Perhaps the algorithm invoked is red link user name => ban? ] (]) 06:56, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
:I know its way off topic, but just to put in a good word for ],he stepped in first to rescue the ] BLP; he spent a lot of time with the sources too. ] (]) 02:26, 6 December 2010 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Luganchanka}}<p>{{ds/log|Luganchanka}}</p>
;Comment by Fladrif:
I am, like Will, rather taken by surprise by this filing, at least as to LittleOliveOil. I don't really see anything in the diffs cited by DocJames that would have justified a topic ban of olive as originally proposed. I see that he has amended his request for her to be for a formal warning only. I'm not convinced that even that is warranted at this time, at least not based on what has been presented so far. ] (]) 15:42, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
===Result concerning Littleolive oil===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
Littleolive oil was one of the parties in the June, 2010 Arbcom decision known as ] and I understand that she has a TM affiliation. Over 90% of her edits since 2006 appear to be on the subject of TM. Opinions may differ as to the exact reason for the discussion at ] going in circles for so long, but people with a TM affiliation have been working on these articles for years. (The talk page has 37 archives of up to 200Kb each). If the TM people were ever going to create a ] with the regular editors, it ought to be visible by now. I think that a set of bans from talk pages may be necessary if we ever want these articles to converge. Though COI-affected people can work well with others on some articles, it doesn't seem to be working out here. <s>The least arbitrary way of selecting people for a talk page ban would be to pick those admonished in the Arbcom case or those sanctioned at AE since then. That list would be:
:#]
:#]
:#]
:#]
I recommend that we impose a ban of these editors from the topic of Transcendental Meditation for six months, on all pages of Misplaced Pages including article and user talk, except for legitimate and necessary dispute resolution concerning their own edits. The ban would be evaluated after six months to see if their absence improved the editing climate or the quality of the articles. </s> ] (]) 05:48, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
:Bit draconian, that. Your logic, if I understand it correctly, is "lets just ban everyone who has gotten in trouble before" - hardly justice for those who are trying to mend their ways and have done nothing wrong ''since'' their last transgression was sanctioned. Am I missing something? ]<small><sup>]</sup>]</small> 12:33, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
:: I fully agree with that and, I might add, the same flawed logic appears to be at work in a number of other recent cases.


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
:: If people want somebody to be topic banned, I want to see a ''pattern'' of recent misconduct, not just one diff. I can't see why this case would merit any more than a warning. ] (]) 13:20, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
::::I think we should give Littleolive oil some more time to respond. Otherwise, I agree with KillerChihuahua about the bans proposed by EdJohnston. ] (]) 15:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
:::: Will Beback has also asked for some more time to prepare his case. I have moved his comment to his own section above. ] (]) 16:52, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
# Reversion to version of article where the article says "He is a child sex offender" in the second sentence despite consensus at BLPN discussion that this is problematic because Ritter never actually interacted with a real child.
:::: As currently presented, I agree that EdJohnston's proposed bans sweep way too broadly. ] (]) 11:26, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
:I would prefer that the much broader concerns be dealt with in a separate AE.--] (]) 19:26, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
::After a discussion with two editors on my talk page, and noting the above dissents, I am withdrawing my proposal (above) for the topic bans of four editors. I agree with Mkativerata that the broader concerns could be addressed in a separate AE. The amount of data that was submitted for the present AE would not justify a wide-ranging response. This enforcement request is still asking for sanctions on Littleolive and Edith, and the admins should try to reach a decision there. ] (]) 16:39, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
* I am not seeing evidence that Littleolive oil has committed any acts which meet the criteria of "seriously violates the behavioural standards or editorial processes" which need to be dealt with by this board. I am, however, seeing a good bit of minor incivility by all parties, especially ABF by Doc James as well as ABF and borderline NPA violations by Edith Sirius Lee (whose case is being dealt with separately, below) Suggest all parties go back to the talk page; work on civility issues and don't bring concerns here unless the evidence is more compelling. AE is not DR; nor is it for minor or borderline violations of standards of behavior. Good luck, and do try to treat one another with respect. ]<small><sup>]</sup>]</small> 17:40, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
===Discussion concerning Edith Sirius Lee===
BLP CTOP warning given


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
====Statement by Edith Sirius Lee====
At BLPN, there has been consensus that the version of the article describing Ritter as a "child sex offender" in the second sentence of the article is problematic, as he did not actually have sexual contact with a child, only a police officer impersonating one. ]. Luganchanka has been persistently edit warring against this apparent consensus. For which he has been warned by {{Ping|NatGertler}} , which he subequently blanked There has been persistent objection to descrbing Ritter as a "child sex offender" in the opening sentences of the article going back to at least August ], but Luganchanka persistently cites a "consensus" for its inclusion that as far as I can tell does not seem to exist, with Luganchanka aggressively editing to enforce its inclusion. ] (]) 20:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
In all the diffs presented, I am only referring to content (in sources) or to edits that editors have done, including edits that undid a structure that took a long time to establish. There is no direct attack on an editor. I do not usually directly attack the POV of editors. I did it in some other diffs, but I apologized after. I do not know Doc James, but I am pretty sure he is a nice person. We just disagree on content. If I do my own self critic, I would say that I can be too direct when I contradict other editors in a content dispute using logics, which could even be wrong some times. It is often not well taken. I believe though that I am improving. ] (]) 18:36, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
: Luganchanka's response is disingenuous and misleading. Look at the ] discussion I linked above. Nobody other than Luganchanka thinks that Ritter should be described as a "child sex offender" in the opening sentences of the article. The dispute isn't about whether or not the convictions should be mentioned in the lead at all or not, it's specifically about the use of the phrase "child sex offender", and there is no consensus to include that as far as I can tell, despite Luganchanka's vociferous claims to the contrary. ] (]) 20:47, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
: I should add that I am told that my English grammar is not always easy to read. This cannot help. I will try to improve that also. ] (]) 16:07, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
:: RfC opened ]. ] (]) 16:01, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning Luganchanka===
Here is my reply to Fladrif's diffs. I agree that my communication skill in the diffs of Aug 10, Aug 13 and Nov 10 was inappropriate. In all cases, I was too argumentative, too direct and perhaps my grammar did not help. I could find more diffs of this kind against me. I think that I am improving. I already plaid guilty for that above, but they were not personal attacks. I certainly did not say I prefer "throwing careless insults around" over civility. It is JamesBWatson that is quoted here, not me - this is taken out of context.
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Luganchanka====
As far as the Aug 17 diffs are concerned, the issue is that a discussion was misplaced: all editors, not only me, were warned to continue in the talk page of the RFA, not in the RFA itself, because it was disruptive. I already discussed the Oct 26 diff above. It was a comment that I made about James's edits, which "destroyed" a structure that took a long time to establish. It was not about James directly. ] (]) 22:52, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


The intro on the ] page had remained largely the same for several months, as you will see on the talkpage it is an intro approved, and reverted to, by multiple senior editors. There has been a recent flurry of activity / edits. While I ], it does look like those edits are attempting to downplay / whitewash Ritter's sexual offence conviction(s). I have not been 'aggressive' at all, rather I have simply referred contentious edits to the talkpage to build consensus, attempting to do my duty as a good Misplaced Pages editor.] (]) 20:40, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
An important clarification. I plaid guilty of being too argumentative, etc., but it is not true that I did not improve recently. The six months ban is not necessary. As it is now, I feel I am helping the discussion among editors, making it more productive, not the opposite. ] (]) 20:19, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


Please see the ], where there has been a clear consensus reached, on more than one occasion, and by senior wikipedia editors, that Ritter's sexual offence conviction should be included in the lead to the article. My edits have simply been aimed at ensuring this consensus reached is maintained in the article.] (]) 20:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
{{Collapse top| About SPA }}
On the positive side, I always been careful to respect . I am following NPOV policy and other content policy to the best of my understanding and I accept to compromise to achieve consensus. Olive made a strong point in her defense that she is not a SPA, which is true, but being a SPA is not against guideline or policy. An admin below went way off topic just to bring out that Fladrif was not a SPA and had an important contribution in another topic. If being an SPA is an issue, I plaid guilty. However, I carefully respected Arbcom remedy on that respect . ] (]) 16:19, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
{{Collapse bottom}}
{{Collapse top| About Doc James being sanctioned himself per policy: not a priority }}
Doc James extended the AE to me, but he is also by default included by policy : Anyone requesting enforcement who comes with unclean hands runs the risk of their request being summarily denied or '''being sanctioned themselves.''' Olive made a strong case against him to explain why she had to make a strong comment to him in the talk page and I (and she) can add more to it. ] (]) 17:59, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
: Per Olive, what we really want is to resolve content issues in the talk page in a nice manner. So, I hided this paragraph.
{{Collapse bottom}}


: Thank you to @] and @] for your feedback. If you see the ], discussions - {{tq|14 August - Vandalism by removing all reference entirely to Ritter being a "Convicted Sex Offender"}} and {{tq|First sentence}}. The latter discussion ended on 26th September, and resulted in the intro we had until a flurry of edits the other day, trying to move information on Ritter's sexual offence conviction, downplay it, whitewash it etc. My edits were aimed at restoring the edit reached by consensus, which had been in place for several months until the recent raft of edits with the clear aim of moving / downplaying Ritter's sexual offence conviction.] (]) 06:39, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
====Statements by others concerning EdithSiriusLee====
;Statement by Fladrif
In stark contrast to my surprise at a new AE being filed at this time as to LOO, I am not surprised at all that a new AE is necessary and appropriate as to ESL in all of his/her incarnations. ESL is a consistently disruptive SPA whose only role has been to inundate the talk pages with a relentless deluge of tendacity, obstinance and personal attacks, posing an insurmountable obstacle to the reaching of consensus and cooperation. Repeated warnings from involved and uninvolved editors and administrators, and even the imposition of sanctions at an earlier AE have done nothing to convince ESL to conform his/her editing to the requirements of Misplaced Pages policy and guidelines and the requirements of the TM ArbCom. I can think of nothing, short of a complete topic ban, that can address this persistent and apparently deliberate behavior. I was sorely tempted to start an AE with respect to ESL the most recent time I warned him/her (Nov 22), but I frankly didn't feel like undertaking the work of starting one. Rather than present an endless list of diffs, I'll just link to a representative sampling of comments by uninvolved editors commenting in various discussions ''since ESL was sanctioned the first time at AE''. I'm not even going to get into the times that I or other involved editors have warned ESL, or to diffs that preceded the last AE, because that list would be nearly endless.
* Aug 10 - one day after AE sanctions are imposed on ESL, ] warns ESL that ESL's editing is "disruptive" and ESL's "behavior is toxic" and a reason that user has not contributed more to the page.
* Aug 13 - ] warns ESL of an "adversarial approach" that is not helpful to Misplaced Pages, and notes that ESL prefers "throwing careless insults around" over civility.
* Aug 17 - ] and ] each warn ESL for disrupting DocJames' RFA
* Oct 26 - ] warns ESL regarding personal attacks on other editors.
*Nov 10 - ] warns ESL of "repeated tendentious verbosity" and "triumphal incomprehensibility", observing that it is impossible to know if the problem is a lack of command of English or deliberate disruption, but that "the editing process cannot survive it, and editors who care about this subject need to take a stand. I'm outta here".
When uninvolved editors look at these pages, they inevitably soon conclude that participation is fruitless, principally because of Edith. There is no way around that conclusion, and there is pretty much only one solution to the problem. This has gone on long enough. Too long. ] (]) 19:45, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


:: Thank you for this ], I really do appreciate your feedback and advice here!!] (]) 16:30, 16 January 2025 (UTC) <small>(moved from ] — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 17:34, 16 January 2025 (UTC))</small>
===Result concerning Edith Sirius Lee===
* I suggest a topic ban for six months of ESL. Her participation has been combative and non-productive. I see no signs she is making any serious effort to modify her troublesome behavior. ]<small><sup>]</sup>]</small> 17:45, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
* '''Comment:''' I agree with this suggestion and assessment by admin ]. -- ''']''' (]) 18:44, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
** I have unarchived this request, as it needs closing before it could be archived. ] (]) 11:02, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->
* I agree with this assessment, and would be willing to impose the six-month topic ban. ] ] 11:20, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
** In the absence of further objections, I have imposed and logged the ban as proposed by KC. ] ] 22:57, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
{{hab}}


:: As per ]'s comments:
== Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Martintg ==


{{tq|"Unfazed by "Emily's" age, Ritter asked "Emily," "you want to see it finish?" Ritter then turned on the webcam and ejaculated in front of the camera for "Emily." Detective Venneman then notified Ritter of his undercover status and the undercover operation and directed Ritter to call the police station."}}
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in . According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small>


https://casetext.com/case/ritter-v-tuttle
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|{{{Appealing user|Martintg}}}}} – ~<includeonly>~</includeonly>~~


] (]) 18:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
; Sanction being appealed : 3 week block


====Statement by NatGertler====
; Administrator imposing the sanction : ]
Editor's edits today focused on trying to main a negative descriptor of what subject believed, despite it not being in the three sources that were listed (nor in the old version they ultimately reverted to.) Efforts were first trying to simply restate the claim, then trying to source it to an opinion piece (problem) from the Washington Examiner (also a bit of a problem, per ]), then trying to state as a fact what had merely been stated in a non-prime article as an accusation. BLP concern was pointed out repeatedly via edit summary and on Talk page. Removal of unsourced contentious BLP claims and even false claims is not "whitewashing" despite how editor wishes to depict it, it is in accord with our practices. -- ] (]) 21:08, 12 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
; Notification of that administrator : I've sent an email to {{admin|HJ Mitchell}}
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
:Confirmed, for the record. ] &#124; ] 18:22, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
===Statement by Martintg===


===Result concerning Luganchanka===
I don't think this block is entirely reasonable or fair, given that only two weeks remain before the expiration of my topic ban, these were two isolated minor edits made in good faith. I did undertake to refrain from any further edits in the remaining period if it was an issue as I stated .

:As I said, those two edits were minor technical edits, it wasn't my intention to purposely breach my ban, I had a good faith belief I hadn't. Why would I knowingly breach my topic ban with only two weeks to go? That said, I gave my undertaking not to edit that topic further. I don't know what kind of signal this block is suppose to send, if I was just beginning my topic ban that would make sense. But given the circumstances, unless the intent is to make me quit the project, this block seems to be sending a totally the wrong message.

:As I was blocked per the provisions of WP:EEML (the block being logged there) rather than as a discretionary sanction per WP:DIGWUREN, is the duration fair? Given that blocks are a technical measure used to enforce bans, per ], and that my topic ban is coming to an end on December 22nd anyway, is it right that this block should exceed the length of the remaining duration of the topic ban? What would be the point of that? --] (]) 01:15, 9 December 2010 (UTC) <small>Posted here for the appellant. --] (]) 01:36, 9 December 2010 (UTC)</small>

::FPS dismisses my sincere belief at the time that I hadn't breached by topic ban as "specious". I am not continuing to claim that I didn't breach my ban, I implicitly accepted I had when I offered to not continue to make those. I was merely explaining my mind set at the time. Surely there must be a distinction made between wilful deliberate "testing the limits" and an honest mistake, why would I knowingly jeopardise myself just two weeks out from the expiry of my topic ban. and I fail to see why FPS does not see that. People make mistakes, I made another elsewhere and reverted as soon as realised I had as that edit was related to communism.

::HJ Mitchell may be a marvellous fighter of vandalism and I'm sure he is proud of his ban hammer as his userbox suggests, but I don't think he has the right temperament for patrolling AE. While other admins first discuss proposed sanctions before acting, he acts first before discussing. Admins wield extraordinary power at AE, they need to discuss first. Just in the previous 24 hours he had made four bad blocks:
::#
::#
::#
::#

::This is a bad block. I want to move on, my topic ban expires in less than two weeks in any case, and this block serves no purpose other than demonstrate that some admins are inflexible and unforgiving. I accept the reality of my block by it's duration is exceedingly unfair given that my topic ban which led to this block will expire soon and I made an honest mistake.--] (]) 19:17, 9 December 2010 (UTC) <small>Posted here for the appellant. --] (]) 19:19, 9 December 2010 (UTC)</small>
:::OK, that's enough. This is about you and how you violated your topic ban, not about my history as an admin. Nice cherry-picking off diffs, btw, how long did that take you? An hour? Two? The first was a bad block, the second and third are about the same block and the final diff was a perfectly good block. I've made nearly 3,000 blocks. That a handful of them don't stand up is unsurprising. ] &#124; ] 19:42, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

::::FPS's assertion that "and the perception of modern Estonian attitudes towards those past events, are at the very heart of the present-day ethnic disputes concerning the country and its neighbours" demonstrates the difficulty with this area. I think FPS may confusing Estonia with Lithuania. Both happen to be Baltic states and people often confuse them, attributing attitudes of one country to another. As I said in my original statement, as far as I know there is no general dispute regarding the Holocaust within Estonia. This whole issue of perception demonstrates why this area of interpreting my topic ban is fraught with difficulty. It is not a black and white issue like vandalism or 3RR. Some leeway must be given to genuine differences of opinion. We can agree to disagree, but I accept that some admins believe I breached my topic ban as they interpret it and I have undertaken not to edit that area further, but don't sanction me harshly over it.--] (]) 19:41, 9 December 2010 (UTC) <small>Posted here for the appellant. --] (]) 19:56, 9 December 2010 (UTC)</small>
:::::It is true that the amended topic ban has proved to be problematic. In fact I had originally warned ] (the original proposer of the amendment) of the potential problems with the amended remedy . There were no problems in the eight months prior to that amendment, demonstrating that I do take such things seriously. I can voluntarily agree to abide by the original wider EE topic ban for the remainder of the term until December 22nd, if that helps. I have given similar voluntary undertakings in the past and have followed through . --] (]) 22:09, 9 December 2010 (UTC)<small>Posted here for the appellant. --] (]) 23:36, 9 December 2010 (UTC)</small>

====Reply to BorisG's question====

BorisG asks the question on why is there an inconsisency in the treatment of two recent cases and the . The reason is that an admin who normally does not patrol the AE board applied a block without first discussing his proposed actions with the other admins here. Had he done so there would have been some measure of consistency with no mixed messages and we wouldn't have people casting , or feel encouraged to lodge new AE cases based upon evidence already heard in previous cases.

To reiterate why my block should be shortened:
* I had argued in the original case that a sanction was not necessary since
# I had edited in good faith,
# these edits were minor and gnomish, and are not considered disruptive,
# it wasn't my intent to breach my topic ban since the term of my topic ban was soon to expire,
# having accepted that I may have breached the topic ban I made an explicit undertaking not to edit that topic until the end of my topic ban

* the block was excessively harsh given the points in 1)

* the block exceeded the remainder of the term of the topic ban, which is contrary to the principle that blocks are a technical measure to enforce bans, and since the topic ban was expiring there is no basis for such a measure to continue.

A majority of admins do appear to support reducing my block to December 22nd, I hope this is followed through. --] (]) 22:39, 12 December 2010 (UTC) <small>Copied here for the appellant. --] (]) 22:44, 12 December 2010 (UTC)</small>

===Statement by Piotrus===
I will start with a disclaimer that I am a colleague of Marting and also under the same topic ban as him (it is also my understanding that I am allowed to post here; if not please let me know and I'll remove my argument). So you will not be surprised when I say that his 3-week block seems to harsh to me. I'd nonetheless ask you to consider the following arguments:
* the wording of the topic ban does not make it crystal clear which articles are subject to it (sure, some are obvious, but some are in the "gray")
* Marting makes in his statement a valid argument that the article he edited is not about an EE-related dispute, and that the second one is purely technical. One can disagree with his argument, but the logic is valid - hence we can see how he made his error (and that it was in good faith).
* as I noted, I (and like he) were under an impression that WWII/Holocaust articles are ok for us to edit (we both now understand our interpretation was incorrect, but it was an error made in good faith)
* Marting has violated his topic ban once before, but overall he has made less than one violating edit per month of the topic ban - it seems clear that he is not trying to test the boundaries or abuse it, he just made an honest mistake in judgment
* his two edits were not part of a pattern, nor of any dispute, there were no reverts or other editing conflict
* he did say that if his edits are problem "I will voluntarily refrain from editing any articles regarding the Jewish people of Estonia for the remaining two weeks of my topic ban.", demonstrating good faith, will to disengage and learn from past mistakes
* from our blocking policy: "Blocks are used to prevent damage or disruption to Misplaced Pages, not to punish users". What damage or disruption will this three weeks block prevent? Marting has already said he is willing to rethink the boundaries of his ban if others think he violated it with his edits. The three week block seems to me to be a punishment-only block, protecting the project from no real danger, and preventing Marting from editing constructively in other areas.
* is a three-week block really the reasonable punishment for his error (and was the one-week block the reasonable punishment for the first one)? Why is it one week/three week instead of one day/two day, for example?

As such, I'd ask you to reconsider whether three weeks is indeed the right punishment. Could I suggest an alternative: 3 days of a block, and extension of the topic ban by two weeks, for example? This will serve the purpose of leaving a note in a block log, giving the editor some time to think it over, and the community, more time to see if he has learned not to touch the line of the ban. --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 22:16, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

PS. As noted below, the severity of this punishment has seemingly driven the editor into leaving the project (). Is this the intended outcome? --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 22:20, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

===Statement by Sander Säde===
I would like to point out that the three week block is unduly harsh. The previous one week block was enforced by a deeply involved administrator, who blocked Martin in record time after Arbitration Enforcement request was filed - despite the only non-involved administrator commenting at the time expressed doubts about the evidence and recommended Martin to stop editing such topics, or he might get a ''warning''.

If you look at the ], then you can see that the standard has been to give an official warning or 12h for the first violation, 24 to 48 hours on the second violation. Martin has ''never'' been officially warned for topic ban breach (as can be seen in the EEML log) and this is his second possible violation of the topic ban.

His ''two'' edits are entirely noncontroversial (they are both, in fact, Wikignome-type edits). The article itself is noncontroversial and stable - no edit-warring, no dubious edits, no heated discussions on the talk page. I don't see how it is possible to claim that the edits violate his topic ban "about national, cultural, or ethnic disputes within Eastern Europe". I thought it was required for an editor filing the Arbitration Enforcement request to ''explain'' how the edits violated the Arbitration remedies - not just give couple of naked diffs and basically claim "it is all there, mmmkay"?

:--] 16:46, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

::Future Perfect, would you kindly explain the dispute in question? --] 18:53, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
::: The Holocaust itself was, of course, an ethnic conflict (in the most horrible sense possible), but what's even more directly relevant here, Estonia's WWII past, and especially the issue of (real or perceived) Estonian participation in Nazi crimes, and the perception of modern Estonian attitudes towards those past events, are at the very heart of the present-day ethnic disputes concerning the country and its neighbours. Therefore, an article on ] is about as centrally part of the topic-ban area as it gets. ] ] 19:08, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
::::Sorry, but this seems to be just a generic statement. Estonia is one of the few countries that has studied the involvement of Estonians in Nazi and Soviet crimes in depth - indeed, the research concluded by ] (no Estonians were members) is of such quality that it has become a "standard" base research for the topic, being used not only by historians, but even by ]. As far as I know, there are no "present-day ethnic disputes" related to the Holocaust in Estonia. There is no sign in ] about such dispute - nor are there any such issues raised on the talk page - in fact, there are no user edits for months on the talk page and the entire history of the talk page is less than 50 edits. Quite the opposite, this seems to be an article where even people of various POV's collegially come together to edit the page in a friendly atmosphere - just read the discussions on the talk.
::::Also, I do not understand how two noncontroversial wikignome edits by Martin warrant three week block for a ''second'' offense in a year (usual block would be 24 or 48 hours). Could you please explain what was the harm done by these and how does Martin's block help Misplaced Pages?
:::::--] 19:50, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::Precisely which article was edited is no more relevant than what the edit was. The article was within the scope of the topic ban and any reasonable person would agree that the Holocaust in Estonia falls well within "ethnic conflicts in Eastern Europe". ] &#124; ] 20:10, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::::So, basically there is "ethnic conflicts in Eastern Europe" in Estonia related to the Holocaust, except no one has been able to demonstrate it, quite the opposite. Uhm, yes, now it all makes suddenly sense... --] 20:18, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Sander, please remember that the wording of this topic ban is very stretchable. Even Martin has agreed, above, to an interpretation that he violated it. It is my understanding that what is being appealed is not the fact that the topic ban was violated, but that the punishment issued is way to severe. I don't believe that arguing about the blurry boundaries of the topic ban is going to help Martin, rather, it is going to result in reframing of this amendment, and a speedy close with a near consensus that the ban was violated. So how about we declare the topic ban violation a dead horse, and move on to the the question of whether a good faithed mistake on a blurry topic ban line is enough to warrant a 3 weeks ban, given that Martin has removed himself from the area as soon as a complain was filled and that his topic ban would expire in two weeks anyway? --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 20:26, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

===Statement by sanctioning administrator===
As the admin who imposed the block in question. I feel I have no choice but to oppose this appeal. I believe the block and its duration are entirely justified. This is the second block for a violation of the topic ban (and nobody is seriously attempting to deny the ban was violated). Blocks are generally escalated, so three weeks is perfectly proportional since the first block, just three months ago, was for a week. Evidently Martintg hasn't learned from the first block or isn't taking the topic ban seriously enough, which is disconcerting given that considerable disruption must have occurred for a topic ban to be impose in the first place. However, the above statement shows that they simply do not understand the reason for the block, which makes it impossible to contemplate unblocking, especially when they resort to wikilawyering and questioning my record in order to detract attention from what is clearly and unambiguously a violation of a topic ban. ] &#124; ] 20:33, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Martintg ===
Question for Mkativerata (and others): given that the problem is related to Martin's understanding of the blurry topic ban, that his edits were good faithed, and that his contributions to other topic areas has been uncontroversial, wouldn't a more beneficial (to the project) solution be to reimpose the pre-blurry motion topic ban (from all EE-related articles)? This would allow Martin to keep contribution to the project for the next two/three weeks, in areas he has proven to be a good and uncontroversial contribute, and would prevent him from making any further problematic judgments in the blurry topic ban area (as far as I know, he was following his previous, wider topic ban without any problems, it is the post-motion blurry boundaries that have proven problematic). --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 20:31, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
:I have a question to admins, JH Mitchell in particular: in the last few days Offliner filed two very similar AE requests with respect to Piotrus and Marting. Piotrus was given a warning while Marting got blocked for 3 weeks. Why such a big difference? I hope there is no double standard here, however unintentional. Note that in the case of Piotrus, Offliner was prohibited from filing new AE requests for a while, based on excessive number of AE requests. Aren't you now sanctioning and vindicating Offliner's action at the same time? I think this sends mixed messages. - ] (]) 07:59, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
::Piotrus is a former administrator. That may be played role in that some admins are reluctant to take action against him.--] (]) 09:30, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

===Result of the appeal by Martintg===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' :''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
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*<!--
:Copied from ]. ] &#124; ] 18:22, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
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:The appellant appears to have retired. I think it would be pointless to hear this appeal unless Martintg changes his or her mind. So unless anyone has any objections I'll hat this in a little while and it can be re-opened if necessary. --] (]) 20:52, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
:@]: whether you're correct or not, you were edit warring. I believe an indef block from the article and/or a temporary site block would be an appropriate sanction here. ] (]/]) 20:54, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
::Note: it's now quite clear from recent edits, including , that the appellant has not retired and wishes to continue with this appeal. --] (]) 01:39, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
::I've blocked the user for 48h for violating 3RR based on the report at ].--] (]) 23:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

* @], edit-warring ''to remove'' negative content at a BLP is an exemption to 3RR. I see that NatGertler mentioned this in their edit summaries and at talk. As voorts points out, it doesn't matter whether you're right when you're reverting an edit that is being claimed as an exemption, even if you believe ]whiyou are "ensuring this consensus reached is maintained in the article". The solution is to go to talk, discuss, and get consensus. If you'd like to respond, ping me to your response at your talk and I'll post it here. ] (]) 16:04, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
: Uphold sanction. The edits were clearly inside the topic area of the ban, and any claims to the contrary appear specious. ] ] 16:55, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
*:@], if you really believe those two sections -- senior editors, indeed, ] was between someone with 13 edits and somcoen who wasn't ECR, for heaven's sake -- somehow prove consensus was strong, and you think that means you can ignore all the later ones -- at one of which you didn't even respond to a ping, where people were objecting -- then this is maybe looking like a ] issue.
*:But even if you ''had'' been somehow editing to support a consensus you believed was settled, you cannot edit-war contentious material into a BLP when others are objecting to it. The solution, always, is to go to talk, discuss, and reconfirm consensus. There is zero urgency to have this information in the article. Including something negative in a BLP is not something you should ''ever'' edit war over. ] (]) 18:14, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
*Luganchanka's reading of the state of consensus on the talk page as supporting their edits is so far off base that it borders on being a CIR issue if it's sincere. Indef block from ] seems appropriate. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 22:49, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I see RTH's point about the "First sentence" section in isolation. I'd note that the link to ] isn't really appropriate here, as bringing the discussion to BLP/N was an appropriate action (if it was then brought to NPOVN, NORN, etc., ''that'' would be forumshopping). I'd like to see some actual contrition around the edit warring and frivolous accusations of {{tq|whitewash}} before writing this off as time-served. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 15:49, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*::That's fair; I'll strike the link. My point in including it was that, when conversations fragment, we sometimes get these sorts of chaotic incidents. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 15:54, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::Understood, I think that meaning was clear for us here in the admin section, but I could easily see a new editor misinterpreting it unintentionally. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 15:57, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*::::I am not at all comforted by the fact that Luganchanka has proceeded to make ]. The cited BBC source does not state {{tq| masturbated and ejaculated on camera}}, saying only {{tq|graphic sex act}}. As written, this is essentially another BLP violation, building a case that a ban from this topic is needed. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 16:53, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::::Having reviewed the other sources, reliable sources do confirm the masturbation claim (, ) but not ejaculation, which appears to be supported only by ''New York Post'', a generally unreliable source. {{u|Luganchanka}}, in light of this clarification, can you please address your decision to include the claims as you initially wrote them? <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 17:02, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*::::::The detail is in the record of ''Ritter v. Tuttle'' (case No. 3:15cv1235 (M.D. Pa. Dec. 14, 2018)), so it isn't completely made up. But I would also like to hear from the user on this point as to whether there was secondary sourcing here. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 17:32, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::::::Seeing ] here and ], ] at ], I see no comprehension of the use of primary vs. secondary sources, nor any reflection of their past errors in engaging with this topic. I believe that a block from the page is needed to prevent further BLP violations as they have shown no understanding of the relevant policies even after being given several warnings, reminders and opportunities to revise their position. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 18:47, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::::::{{yo|Luganchanka}}
*:::::::] calls upon users to {{tq|{{strong|{{em|not}}}} use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person}}. There are some narrow exceptions (when {{tq|primary-source material has been discussed by a reliable secondary source, it {{em|may}} be acceptable to rely on it to augment the secondary source}}), but adding material to the article not found in reliable secondary sources is... suboptimal ''at best'' under our ].
*:::::::— ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 02:27, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
*{{yo|Luganchanka}} Would you please provide a direct link to the talk page section you are referring to when you say {{tq|there has been a clear consensus reached, on more than one occasion, and by senior wikipedia editors}} regarding the lead? — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 01:57, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
*:{{yo|Luganchanka|Hemiauchenia}}
*:It does seem that the discussion at ] does indicate some support for that language i.e. ({{tq|convicted child sex offender}}) in the lead, with some general lean against putting it in the first sentence. So, while {{tq|There has been persistent objection to descrbing Ritter as a "child sex offender" in the opening sentences}} is true if it means the literal first sentence, I do see a rough consensus to include the material in the lead section in some way in that discussion.
*:That being said, the BLPN discussion had a bit of different tone and tenor from the discussion on the talk page. There was on the article's talk page, but Luganchanka, despite having been pretty vocal about this subject in the past, hadn't participated in that BLPN discussion. They instead grounded their edits in the argument that the article's talk page had consensus for the current content, and nothing on the article's talk page had changed that consensus. And that much was true. In any case, we've got <s>]</s>two different forums with two different answers here, which appears to be what's leading to the whole kerfluffle.
*:Then the analysis comes to whether or not the label is a straightforward BLP violation, requiring us to read the sourcing in the article. , which is cited in the ''body'' of the article (but not the lead), does state that Ritter {{tq|was convicted unlawful contact with minors and other charges}} in the state of PA (the PA statute is ; "unlawful contact with minors" is the verbatim name of the crime). When dealing with a sting operation, PA treats it as {{tq|an offense of the same grade and degree}} as if the criminal had actually contacted a child (unless it's a lesser crime than a third-degree felony, in which case it becomes a third-degree felony). This is an extremely common practice in the United States (there are lots of philosophical questions regarding ''mens rea'' and ''actus reus'' here, but that's not really relevant here). In any case, labeling this to be a child sex offense (or, alternatively, to simply use the name of the crime in the article) does not appear to be straightforward malice/POV-pushing/libel, and a reasonably informed individual might shorten it in this way. Whether or not that is ''wise'' or ''optimal'' to shorten it is the proper subject for content discussion.
*:Aside from the edit warring (which was not acceptable, and was aptly handled by a block), this looks like a content dispute. A heated one involving a living person, sure, but a content dispute nonetheless. I see good-faith—albeit passionate—disagreement. If the editors were to come together and engage in one forum (such as the article's talk page, where this has been discussed a bunch), rather than splitting the discussion over multiple pages, I feel like we might have our best shot at attaining a consensus going forward.
*:In short, it looks like the conversation fragmented, and consensus-building broke down. Edit warring ensued, which was bad, but we've already blocked for that in order to dissuade it going forward. A ] on the article's talk page for what the lead should look like is probably the best way to go forward here.
*:— ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 15:27, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
*::RTH, are you objecting to a p-block from the article? ] (]) 13:35, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
*Luganchanka has been blocked for a week by ] for BLP violations and personal attacks. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 18:38, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Just noting that this was a regular admin action and I wasn't aware this was before AE. ] (]) 18:42, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
*::With this in mind, I think we should wait to hear from RTH but otherwise expect to move forward to an indef p-block on top of SFR's stopgap action, as we haven't seen anything coming close to an adequate recognition of the relevant policies and practices from Luganchanka and after several second chances and nudges, I don't see reason to expect them to change course. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 18:54, 18 January 2025 (UTC)


==BabbleOnto==
*I see in the prior report as being obviously against Martintg's topic ban. How can the ] not fall under the heading of a conflict? The duration of the block might be discussed, but the need for a block is evident. In , Martintg was forgiven for editing the ], where you might not think the article was about a conflict (though some commenters perceived one). ] (]) 19:48, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
* I would have gone for two weeks instead of three, but I agree that there is an obvious violation here. ] (]) 20:19, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
*I agree with the block. I'm not at all convinced by the argument that this article fell outside the topic ban or was even ambiguous. However I do think the duration of the block should be scaled back to expire on 22 December. The block was properly logged as an EEML, not a DIGWUREN, block (there being no allegation that the edit itself was disruptive). The purpose of the block is therefore to enforce the topic ban, that purpose expiring on 22 December. That would pretty much match T. Canens' two weeks. --] (]) 20:23, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
**@Piotrus - not an unreasonable suggestion (at least at first glance: I still agree with this block but I'm not averse to exploring alternatives). The problem is jurisdictional - perhaps I'm being overly lawyerly but the topic ban amendment was enacted by Arbcom and we don't have clear jurisdiction (at least within EEML) to restore the original ban. If Martintg voluntarily agreed to the ban scope expansion, it might help. It would also need the agreement of a clear consensus of uninvolved admins here. --] (]) 20:37, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
***We can do it under the DIGWUREN discretionary sanctions, if we consider topic ban violations to be disruptive per se (and I think they are). ] (]) 20:54, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
****Yes, I was reluctant to take that view but I'm willing to go along with it. --] (]) 20:59, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
:*I support letting the block expire on 22 December, and don't bother with extending the topic ban. Martintg has been at this board quite a bit, and though I don't take the violation quite as seriously as Future Perfect I think action is needed. ] (]) 22:52, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
::*Why shouldn't the topic ban be extended? That sends out a very clear message that violations of AE sanctions will result in a short block and then you can carry on regardless. I'm not saying Martintg is gaming the system in such a way, but I feel we should be talking about an ''extension'' of topic bans for somebody who has twice been blocked for violating it and not a short block and then a removal of all restrictions, which effectively rewards the violation of the ban. ] &#124; ] 00:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
:*Somebody should close this appeal. The admins who have spoken so far say:
::*HJMitchell: uphold (his decision) for a 3-week block.
::*Fut. Perf.: uphold the 3-week block
::*T. Canens: shorten to 2 weeks
::*Mkat: shorten to 2 weeks (consider trading block length for an extension to M's topic ban)
::*EdJo: shorten to 2 weeks
::It seems to me that we will wind up saying either: (a) no consensus to modify the original block, or (b) reduce to two weeks. Will somebody call it? If it's left up to me, I'd probably shorten it to two weeks. ] (]) 23:54, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:I'll call it if you like. I think I'd shorten it also, if only because having the block out run the topic ban seems daft, so I'll shorten it to two weeks. ] (]) 15:15, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


===Request concerning BabbleOnto===
== Piotrus ==
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|ජපස}} 17:34, 13 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|BabbleOnto}}<p>{{ds/log|BabbleOnto}}</p>
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
===Request concerning Piotrus===
; User requesting enforcement : ] (]) 04:09, 11 December 2010 (UTC)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Piotrus}}


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ] ''Piotrus is topic banned from articles about national, cultural, or ethnic disputes within Eastern Europe, their associated talk pages, and any process discussion about these topics until March 22, 2011''
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# Edit to an article ] restoring sections previously removed by Artem Karimov
# Post in ] discussion attempting to attract other users in support of his position # Sealioning
# Refusal to ]
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
# Warning by {{admin|Coren}} # Personalizing an argument.
# Warning by {{admin|SirFozzie}} # Railroading the discussion.
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : block, topic ban extention


This is all after I warned them about ] sanctions, and . Very nearly a ] on the subject. I see no reason to continue tolerating this kind of obstinate ]. Additional diffs available on request from admins, but looking at the user history should suffice to indicate the problem is obvious, I hope.
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : Piotrus restored the material which was previously removed by user Artem Karimov. The sections mention the Polish support for the Orange revolution in Ukraine, the Russian ban on Polish goods and the alleged Russian covert operations in Poland. I believe this clearly falls under the topic of national or ethnic disputes in Eastern Europe. Possibly fearing a topic-ban enforcement action, he then self-reverted but posted a message to the forum of Poland project inviting other users to support the restoration of the material. This is also a clear violation of his topic ban since it includes any discussion about the topic. Then Volunteer Marek arrived and restored the first edit by Piotrus.


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
:It should be noted that Piotrus adopted an interesting tactic: making bold edits, then self-reverting and then asking other users to restore his previous edits. He employed this tactic also in ] . After making an edit and self-reverting he then made a post in ] asking other users to restore his previous edits:
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on (see the system log linked to above).


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
===Discussion concerning Piotrus===
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
This is a ] with respect to the topic and their ] surrounding it has been subject to at least one ] thread that remains active: ]. The hope was that they would ] and move on from this, but it seems they either will not or cannot. ] (]) 17:34, 13 January 2025 (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
====Statement by Piotrus====
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
Were to begin... by no means those diffs are "new"; all but one diffs Dojarca brings were discussed in ] (closed with a warning to me, and Offliner was sanctioned for abuse of AE). The diffs can be found in ], and my comment about them, in my statement there. To quickly summarize my reply, the diffs concern the cases were I possibly got too close to the topic ban, and self-reverted immediately. The remaining diff (to WikiProject Poland) is very much not breeching any policy or restriction, as I am allowed to bring any and all issues to ] per . As such, Dojarca's report is nothing but beating a dead horse (in the best case), and more of a rather crude attempt at block shopping.
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning BabbleOnto===
Further, a review of suggest a case of similar ] and ] of selected opponents (Dojarca ) as with Offliner, but exaggerated due to Dojarca's major focus on discussions and dispute resolution (instead of contributing to encyclopedic content). More than half - more like three quarters - of his wiki namespace edits this year are related to filing complains and/or criticizing his adversaries from the EEML case. Since resuming active editing in mid-November (he was inactive since February), he made 7 edits to article namespace - and 28 edits to dispute resolution pages; his 2nd through 4th edits when he came back where at the arbitration amendment page...
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
* Dec 8:
* Dec 8:
* Nov 15: (])
* Nov 15:
* please note Dojarca has been inactive from February to November (exception being a single June edit)
* Feb 16:
* feel free to look further to see that this is an old, old pattern for that editor
I am really tired of getting dragged into this EE-related, bad faith/wikilawyering battlefield, and I hope that reviewing admins will consider some form of an interaction/AE ban similar to the one applied two days ago to Offliner (although considering the less constructive nature of Dojarca's contribution to this project, I'd suggest an appropriately increased length - perhaps it will make him shift his attention from combating others to actually building the encyclopedia). If some editors cannot understand the principle of ], it seems that they must be taught it the hard way. Thank you, --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 05:13, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
:PS. Let me quote ]'s comment regarding Offliner's request, it seems to me even more applicable in this case: "I think it might be a good idea to apply ] to discourage this sort of ] behavior." --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 05:15, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
::PPS. I'd also suggest placing Dojarca on ]. --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 05:26, 11 December 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by BabbleOnto====
:::''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators''. Deacon is very much involved (as the filler of ], ], and the author of multiple comments critical of me over the years, including recent criticism of me during and ). To see him commenting here in the midst of a ]-related discussion is ironic at best. I hope that a truly uninvolved admin will move his (and mine) comments to an appropriate place (and I'd appreciate it, Deacon, if you'd finally consider burying the grudge you have against me and moving on). Thank you, --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 03:37, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
I would first like to begin by point out the person filing this complaint . They have frequently left "warnings" which read more like threats on and for people who disagree with them. Nor would I be the .


To be honest I'm not entirely sure what it is I'm being charged with doing.


I think in general the user is alleging I've been uncivil, unhelpful, and, in their words, obstinate and tendentious. I know when someone disagrees with you it may feel like they're getting in your way and acting in bad-faith, but that's not always true. I've never tried to be disruptive or uncivil. I've , I've that were clarified to be wrong, I've , at times and work together. And when those editors , I didn't provoke any further.
===Response to Mkativerata by Dojarca===
Piotrus already has been warned multiple times and multiple times promised not to break his own topic ban. What's the purpose of getting another promise from him? The cited above edits are not on the edge of the topic area. They blatantly break the most uncontroversial variant of topic ban interpretation, so this could not be justified by assumption that he understood his topic ban narrower than it was intended. His tactic shows that he recognized well that he breaked the topic ban but attempted to game the system.


I now address the specific edits in the complaint:
When you suggested to pardon Piotrus previous time, you argued that the violation is not repeated, but we can see that this statement was already then erroneous. That's why the 13-day old diff is relevant.


1. I don't see how this is sea-lioning. The user misquoted the article. I pointed out the misquotation, then addressed a accusation against me that I was second-guessing the sources (A claim which was never substantiated). I then said any source would have to support that actual claim which was in the article. I don't know what this violates.
Even his response to this request with an unrelated personal attack on me shows that he is not getting the point.


2. I don't see how this is refusing to get the message (IDHT). The other party is making direct claims alleging I said something. I did not say it. I replied with what I actually said. What part of that interaction is saying "I didn't hear that?"
Attempts to prohibit any arbitration enforcement against the EEML at best shows disrespect to the Arbcom and its adopted decisions.


3. Admittedly probably the strongest of the four allegations. I'm not pretending I was perfect in all of my comments. I should have kept my criticism strictly to their argument. I ask you to read it in context and keep in mind you're viewing a hand-picked assortment of my worst edits, and this is the worst they could find. Also consider that conversation accused me of , perhaps you can see I lose my cool sometimes too.
I did not break any Misplaced Pages's rules thus I see no logical reason why should I be restricted. Yes, I encountered with Piotrus and the coordinated actions by the EEML previously, that's why I am so concerned. Or do you expect the enforcement requests only from uninvolved editors?


4. I'm not even really sure what "railroading the discussion" means. Thus, to keep this section short and to save words, I don't know what I'm being accused of doing wrong here.
Re Piotrus. Why ] should be only applied to EEML members? Where were the ] invocations when you advocated long-term bans on other editors? Besides this ] requires the user to apologize but you response here with attacks against me shows that you are far from apologizing.


All of this has stemmed out of arguments over two sources. I have tried to find compromise, I have tried to negotiate, I have tried to build consensus. I've been going through the proper channels, I've been participating in the RfC, I've been discussing it on the ANI, I source every claim I make, for a month now I've been trying to constructively explain my side and defend my argument against challenges. It's incredibly frustrating to now be facing an Arbitration Enforcement on grounds that '''I'm''' not working with others. ] (]) 23:54, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
] (]) 06:42, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
*:Edited. ] (]) 23:56, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:Dojarca, do you have any diffs of Piotrus violating his topic ban ''since'' the most recent AE report regarding him? If I were in your position and I didn't, I would be keeping a very low profile at AE right about now for fear of being hit by the returning ]. ] &#124; ] 21:16, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
::] says that in theory it should hit only those with unclean hands. Since I violated no rules, I should not fear anything. On the other hand, I never seen ] to be applied against any EEML member, but in case of requests against EEML it is applied often and in harsh and werd mannar such as sanctioning Petri Krohn in the course of the ] case (at the time the existence of EEML was not yet known). --] (]) 04:09, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Of course, the little fact that mailing list was created more than a year after closing of the ] ArbCom case is absolutely not relevant... --] 07:51, 12 December 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by ProcrastinatingReader====
I've interacted with BabbleOnto in several threads. There's a few problems, but ultimately, I think they have a certain opinion on what the article should say, and will debate endlessly to get the article changed to their position. I mean, sure, reasonable people disagree on how to interpret sources and apply policy, but I don't think BabbleOnto is actually interested in faithful application of policies to write high quality articles based on good sources.


That's not terribly problematic by itself, but most discussions with BabbleOnto are exhausting. Rather than actually trying to understand someone's argument in good faith, I think BabbleOnto replies to editors by picking out parts of an argument, interpreting it in the most disfavourable way possible, and making a superficially reasonable response ''ad nauseam''. They reply endlessly in this manner. As well as misrepresentation of opponents' arguments, on multiple occassions BabbleOnto has either misrepresented sources or hasn't read their own sources. I can't think of a single thread where BabbleOnto didn't have the last word, or a single thread where it seemed like BabbleOnto was actually trying to understand the arguments of other editors in a charitable way. As such, I think it's very difficult to work collaborately with BabbleOnto on the lab leak theory and related articles. ] (]) 21:07, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
====Comments by others about the request concerning Piotrus ====
This appears to be the second attempt to sanction Piotrus for the same edits. The first attempt has already been dealt with and resulted in a warning. Regardless of whether that was a correct result, I see no point in considering it again. Moreover I think such behaviour by the filing party is inapppropriate. I think they need to be warned not to do this again. - ] (]) 07:51, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
:Previous request by Offliner was about his edits in ] , completely unrelated article. Yes, this is another violation, not the same as the subject of the previous discussion.--] (]) 08:28, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
::Technically true, but his discussions at WP:POLAND and his edits to Poland-Russia relations were also discussed at the time. To bring edits made before the most recent warning to AE, is at best confusing (and at worst disingenious). - ] (]) 13:52, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Oh yes, I did not notice that. Now browsing that request again I admit that the edits were indeed mentioned by Novickas. In that case it is even more difficult to explain why Mkativerata said the violation was not repeated.--] (]) 15:58, 11 December 2010 (UTC)


====Comment by Deacon of Pndapetzim==== ====Statement by Newimpartial====
As the editor to whom BabbleOnto was responding in the diffs of the filing, I feel compelled to comment now that they have defended (to varying degrees) their first three diffs. I will reply as briefly as I know how to their defense of the diffs, .
Dojarca should get a 1 year ban for having the temerity to try to get a plain and simple Arbcom ruling enforced against a powerful user. Yes, it was a clear and knowing violation of the restriction. Yes, the previous 'decision' was ridiculous, one of many decisions over the years that make a joke of this place. Nonetheless, this is the real world. Dojarca, take your 1 year ban and learn your lesson. ] (<small>]</small>) 14:05, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
:Even if the previous decision was ridiculous, considering the same edits over and over again would be even more ridiculous. The correct course of action is to wait and see if he heeds the warning. - ] (]) 07:08, 12 December 2010 (UTC)


1. BabbleOnto is now doubling down on the claim that I {{tq|misquoted the article}}. I didn't "misquote" the article - I didn't quote the article, and I explained what my comment meant in the rest of the (now collapsed) thread that ends . Also, I provided a clear explanation of why I thought they were second-guessing sources later in the thread, but BabbleOnto never responded to that explanation. They are now responding to the accusation of ] with pure ].
===Comment by Volunteer Marek===
Ok, I wasn't going to comment here but Deacon's comments deserve a comment. First, WHY is Deacon putting his comments in the "Results" section, which ''"is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators."''? Deacon is very much involved here. Since some of the current admins active at AE may not have the necessary background knowledge here, Deacon is a long time enemy of Piotrus, consistently pursuing a 4 year old grudge. That's right, 4 years old (wait, I think it's almost 5 years old now). That I think is pretty much the definition of "battleground mentality". It also explains the use of the excessive hyperbolic nonsense phrases like calling Piotrus "a powerful user" (seriously? What exactly is this power? Can I have some?) and "leader of EEML" (??? Like Kim-Jong Il or something? Can we at least pretend to be serious here?) and "master of both processes" which is straight up ]. Deacon has been declared involved in EE topics on this very board, due to his abuse of his administrative tools in regards to Polish editors . He was banned at one point from the EEML case by the clerk for unhelpful comments at the case and disruptive behavior .


2. On this they say, now, that {{tq|The other party is making direct claims alleging I said something. I did not say it.}} This is repeating a misreading they made in the original thread, where they mistook a statement I made about another editor's comment as if it were about theirs. In this "defense", I see no attempt to read thoughtfully what other editors say in reply to them and revise their understanding accordingly; all I see is zero-sum mentality and ].
Of course I'm not uninvolved either, as I was on the mailing list and I was also part of the EEML case (part of the reason why I was not going to comment). But I'm not pretending to be uninvolved here. Seriously, if there's to be any hope of Eastern European topics not being the gawd awful place to edit that it currently is this kind of battleground, hounding and block shopping needs to stop.] (]) 03:29, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


3. BabbleOnto is now justifying an edit where they said to me, {{tq|You have a habit of inserting small lies into everything you say}} and {{tq|You're not adding anything constructive. You're just refusing to explain anything and saying conclusory statements, or lying about what you said}} - all this based on a misreading of what I had actually written - because I was going to refer to {{tq|a basic failure in reading comprehension}} '''''two hours later'''''. This seems like a time travel paradox.
===Result concerning Piotrus===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
Bringing a 13-day-old diff to AE - after the filer would have known that Piotrus was warned to be more conservative in his approach to his topic ban only a couple of days ago - is not helpful. In light of Dojarca's battle-cry , I am inclined to apply a similar restriction to Dojarca as the restriction applied to Offliner above, in order to prevent the continued use of AE as a weapon. Given that I don't think any action should be taken against Piotrus on such an obviously stale diff, I'll hold this AE open for views on the less urgent matter of sanctions in respect of Dojarca. --] (]) 05:19, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->
:Agree that there seems to be some sort of gaming the system or using wikipedia as a battlefield by the editor invovled here and would support a restriction similar to that described above. ] (]) 19:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
::Gaming the system ... battleground? The opponent is Piotrus, leader of EEML, the master of both processes. What in the name of the good is he supposed to do to get plain Arb rulings enforced? You suggest he doesn't use AE any more? ] (<small>]</small>) 01:09, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
*Deacon, the issue with Dojarca is pot-stirring. The proposal by Mkativerata is to restrict Dojarca from making complaints about EEML participants here at AE for two months in cases where his own conduct is not in question. Dojarca has not recently been in any conflicts with Piotrus on articles, so I guess he is not here because of any issues with his own editing. He is just scrutinizing Piotrus's edits for compliance with his EEML restriction. After a long break, Dojarca returned to active Misplaced Pages editing in mid-November and has spent a lot of time on arbitration pages concerning EEML. His comments can be seen at ] regarding Biophys' attempt to get his topic ban lifted. In he criticized the proposed sanction against Offliner and offered to proxy for him in making future filings at AE. Then he filed a complete new enforcement request against Piotrus here at ], covering diffs that were nearly two weeks old, after ] had closed 3 days earlier with no sanctions against Piotrus. ] (]) 04:30, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
:AE is here to enforce ArbCom rulings and works by utilizing the labour of folks like Dojarca for such purposes, since no-one else is gonna do it. The diff is a pretty clear violation of the ban, and is different from the last one. Alright, there has been "action" since it happened, but is that conspicuously relevant to Dojarca? They are both playing the same game, Dojarca is just not very good at it. If he's punished that's why you'll be punishing him ... he doesn't have the experience and meats to work the system the way others can. ] (<small>]</small>) 04:42, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Ok, this has been left open for more than a couple of days now (thanks for the comments). The result is:
*No action taken against Piotrus, the alleged violations in question being stale.
*In light of the circumstances described by EdJohnston and I above, Dojarca is prohibited from commencing or participating in dispute resolution or enforcement processes (including ]) relating to user conduct within the area of conflict (as defined by ]) for a period of two months, save for processes concerning his or her own conduct. To avoid doubt, "commencing or participating in" includes doing so by proxy.
Regards --] (]) 20:45, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


4. They don't bother defending themselves on this one, but just to point out the actual issue with the diff, they doubled down on their accusations that I {{tq|said a material lie}}, and that I {{tq|lied when said that quoted the article out of context. Pointing out being caught lying}} and then proceeded to STRAWMAN the rest of my comment to which they were replying. If they had read my prior comment with a reasonable level of attention, they would have understood that there were no "lies", just a misunderstanding or two in each direction. But ] again; even in responding to this filing BabbleOnto is still insisting I did things that I quite obviously didn't do.
== Wee Curry Monster {{anchor|Wee Curry Monster aka Justin aka Justin the Evil Scotsman aka Justin A. Kuntz}} ==
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
===Request concerning Wee Curry Monster===
; User requesting enforcement : ] (]) 23:37, 12 December 2010 (UTC)


It is exhausting to deal with this kind of quasi-CPUSH (not quite civil, but certainly push) behaviour. The Talk page in question has seen a recent influx of single-purpose or nearly single-purpose POV accounts, and in terms of editor energy, this one certainly seems not to be a net positive for Misplaced Pages as a project. Perhaps if they edited away from Covid and US politics, their track record might improve. ] (]) 03:33, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Wee Curry Monster}}


====Statement by Objective3000====
;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ]
Just a quick aside to Valereee's aside: {{TQ|Contentious topics are a terrible place to learn....}} ] currently has posts from 19 editors lacking the edits for extended confirmed. ] (]) 20:38, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
:@], this is also a problem at other CTOPs, and is likely to become more problematic. I assume due to off-Wiki forums. ECR might just produce more users gaming EC. I thought it would be useful to put your aside into the CTOP template at the top of CTOP TPs. But that assumes folks read it. Walt Kelly said something along the lines of: “If only I could write, I’d write a letter to the mayor, if only he could read." This discussion is likely better off elsewhere. ] (]) 21:38, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
::Note: ] was just TBanned from the topic of COVID-19 and indef blocked until the accusations of off-wiki coordination made by them at ANI are retracted. Those accusations are like their suggestion made in their statement in this filing. ] (]) 12:11, 18 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by JoelleJay====
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
At the very least, can we get more admin involvement on the lab leak page so trolling like ] doesn't disrupt things even more? ] (]) 07:12, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
# His first edit after his 3 month topic ban was to include in the lede the very controversial term that was being discussed just before his topic ban and about which consensus was reached to remove it (and which provoked this comment from him). He then edit warred repeatedly instead of sticking to BRD.
# His fourth edit after the return was to remove consensus text that was being discussed when he was topic banned (reached after very long discussions), and then he edit warred with different editors to keep that text out.
# The edit war mentioned above still goes on today, with different editors, in several articles.
# Edit war with 3 different editors to include some text he knew was false (and unsupported by the source he cited) until an admin told him he was wrong.
# Has repeatedly accused other editors of tag teaming (an improvement over his previous calling other editors “fascist fuckwits”, but clearly disruptive and a lack of good faith assumption)
# Other repeated accusations: “choosing to misrepresent his position”, misrepresenting sources, ownership, resorting to bad faith attacks, poisoning the well, filibustering, tendentious editing…
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
# Warning by {{user|Richard Keatinge}}
# Warning by {{user|Imalbornoz}}
# Warning by {{user|Imalbornoz}}
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : Topic ban


====Statement by IntrepidContributor====
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : Justin / Wee Curry Monster has returned to edit the article, but he is not following the principles stated in the Arbcom decision: , , . He is not launching the personal attacks that he used to, but otherwise his behavior is completely disruptive and, like another editor (Richard Keatinge) said, it verges on incompetence. he explains in length one -of many- very exasperating episode that is a good example of what I mean. Another example: There have been 60 comments in the talk page in Justin's absence, and no edit wars; now we are at a rate of more than 300 comments per month and several edit wars (starred by him) going on. If this is not a clear proof of disruption, then I don't know what is.


I have been observing BabbleOnto and while there are valid concerns about bludgeoning, I think the proposed sanctions are too much. His engagement in the Covid lab leak topic is driven by commitment to WP:NPOV, which our articles fail to adhere to, and he made the mistake of arguing with editors who were never going to listen (resulting in what looks like sealioning on his part). He's not only editor to raise issues in the topic and engage in good faith discussion, only to find themselves pulled to AN or AE disputes after staying out of the seasoning traps and refusing to capitulate to threats. In a parallel AN case concerning another editor in same topic, I suggest there may be possible off-wiki coordination , but it can also be on-wiki ().


One need only cross-reference names from , checking those that voted for labeling COVID-19 lab leak as conspiracy, with the names of complainants here. Contrast all these old timers with the steady stream of tens if not hundreds of regular editors complaining that our article fails NPOV, and see that their gentle approach doesn't work . Our chief complainant is already preparing his next case , and this might not be his first.
Responses to comments below:


I suggest that administrators consider a 1 to 2 month topic ban for BabbleOnto to provide opportunity for him to correct his approach, while staying alert to the tactics of POV editors trying to draw them into content debates to influence outcomes.
::As a response to several ''comments about who is to blame for the edit wars'', I should emphasize some points:
::# No edit wars happened during Justin's absence, even though there are many editors with different POVs
::# It has been Justin vs. Richard Keatinge, Ecemaml, The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick and myself (Justin vs. one at a time or vs. several at once); the only common factor has been him.
::# The subject of the edit wars were texts that were under discussion. Justin edited (repeatedly) to impose content that he knew was rejected by other editors, something that has turned an already difficult discussion into an almost impossible task.
::# If you look at the dates of the reverts, you will see that Justin has reacted almost instantly in each instance. Other editors (I have personally made it a point to act like this) have many times asked Justin to self-revert and return to discussion as per BRD, and have waited several days before I even thought of reverting his edits.
::# Like EdJohnston has said, Justin's edit summaries are "bombastic".
::I know everybody has some responsibility in an edit war, but I think that any enforcement should take into account who is the cause and who has reacted. -- ] (]) 10:49, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


] (]) 14:46, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:::Regarding ''Vassyana comments about the enforcement'': The sanction that I request to be enforced is not about the topic ban (which is already a few months old like Vassyana has noticed) but the part that says: "Should Justin A Kuntz return to editing relating to Gibraltar following this period, he is reminded to edit in accordance with the principles discussed in this decision and will be subject to the discretionary sanctions remedy should he fail to do so." I say that he has failed to do so since his first edit after his return, especially: , , .


=== Statement by TarnishedPath ===
:::Justin's first edit happened in October. He's right to say has learnt to be ], but his conduct has otherwise been very disruptive since the first edit. I have waited until now hoping that Justin would start to behave according to those principles. This request is a last resource. -- ] (]) 10:49, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Please see ] where BabbleOnto edited ] restoring previously reverted content and ] using a shit source after they'd been told by multiple other editors in discussions ] and ] that the source was shit. Notably in the edit summary they wrote "{{tq|Read discussion page. Manual revert. No serious challenge has been made to these changes. Methinks an admin needs to get involved...}}" despite them being in a ] situation. If a clue is not gotten by the editor fast I'd suggest TBANs from both COVID and AP2 is warranted in order to cease their disruption. '']''<sup>]</sup> 04:25, 18 January 2025 (UTC)


:Noting the editor's continued behaviour at ]. Refer to ]. '']''<sup>]</sup> 01:53, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
::::Answer to ''EdJohnston about the edit war in November'': We did not discuss on the definition of "Gibraltarian" but a much more prosaic issue: the source cited by Justin said that there were 23,907 Gibraltarians (literally, in page 2), not 30,000. Why Justin reverted several times to say that there are 30,000 Gibraltarians using this source is beyond my understanding (even when he was told he was wrong). Imagine the discussion with Justin about controversial topics (territorial disputes, etc) if it goes like this even with such trivial matter-of-fact issues... See my explanation to JodyB -the admin who told Justin he was wrong- . -- ] (]) 11:03, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
::and again at ] '']''<sup>]</sup> 03:01, 19 January 2025 (UTC)


===Statement by berchanhimez===
:::::''Answer to Vassyana regarding section links'' not diffs: It's difficult, because the discussion is huge. Anyway, just a few links:
This user was given no less than 4 chances on the talk page to stop talking about bans/other editors and start talking about the content. They have continued crying about how they're scared of getting banned... yet they continue blabbing about other editors getting banned for their bad behavior ]. ''At a minimum'' a partial block from the talk page(s) in question is warranted, and it would be beneficial for a topic ban from the origins of COVID-19, broadly construed. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez &#124; ] &#124; ] 03:37, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::* (please read it, it is very illustrative, especially the introduction)
:::::* , with admin JodyB's and Justin's answers (please take into account that this is only one -and very trivial- of many).
:::::* since Justin's first comment after the topic ban on October 9. Justin's first comments are very illustrative too. -- ] (]) 11:37, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


===Result concerning BabbleOnto===
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
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*{{u|BabbleOnto}}, please edit your statement down further to fit within the restriction. This also serves as an opportunity to rephrase your defense, which currently is not convincing at first glance. ProcrastinatingReader's description of the situation seems quite apt, particularly {{tq|BabbleOnto replies to editors by picking out parts of an argument, interpreting it in the most disfavourable way possible}}, which is currently a pretty fitting description of your response to them here, given that you zeroed in on the "superficially reasonable" part and ignored the much more serious parts of the testimony. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 23:37, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Ok, having read through nearly every edit that BabbleOnto has made, I agree with the complainants that not only does BabbleOnto engage in sealioning, it appears to be almost exclusively what they do. The discussion at ] exhibits perhaps even more concerning argumentation than the diffs provided in the initial report. Throughout these discussions, BabbleOnto tends to demand a standard of stating the obvious (with respect to the context of said sources) that is absurd, and continues to lawyer for such standards even when the situation becomes ]. When criticizing sources' ability to account for basic claims, I can find no examples of BabbleOnto themselves attempting to find sources that would resolve the issues they identify--this is uncollaborative behavior. There is a clear pattern of engaging in this behavior across recent US politics topics consistent with the scope of ]. The only saving grace to BabbleOnto's track record is that none of this has translated into disruptive editing of actual articles, just unproductive engagement on talk pages. I am currently in favor of a topic ban from post-1992 American politics; if they are actually here to build an encyclopedia and not to provide a punching bag for debate club, they can use this opportunity to learn more constructive patterns of editing in topics that they are less personally invested in. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 01:26, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*::{{u|Valereee}} in line with their follow-up response, I take Objective3000's comments as potentially a basis for community discussion rather than a call for protective action on the lab leak talk page right now. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 21:47, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
* I have to agree, this looks like sealioning. {{u|BabbleOnto}}, you're new here, and I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt about your ability to learn to collaborate. WP works on collaboration and consensus, and sometimes consensus goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. You have to be willing to shrug, walk away, and go work on something else when consensus is against you. And you absolutely must not insist everyone else keep answering you until you're satisfied with their answers. I've seen editors at both the Thompson and the lab leak talks tell you they don't actually owe you an answer to your satisfaction.


:Do you think you can learn to do that? Because if you don't think you can, this may not be the right hobby for you.
===Discussion concerning Wee Curry Monster===


:<small>As an aside, I'm going to recommend what I always recommend to new editors who end up here: Contentious topics are a terrible place to learn. Go edit in noncontentious topics, where other editors are a lot less exhausted and have the energy to be more patient with new editors.</small> ] (]) 18:27, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
====Statement by Wee Curry Monster====
::@], hm, yes, and ] also has 37 archives, and even with archiving at 21 days, 20 sections. Do you think an ECR is something that talk page needs? That's not part of the authorized restrictions an individual admin can place...hm, and I'm not sure of the policy w/re most efficiently getting that done and wasting the fewest people's time. @]? ] (]) 21:08, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I would object to ECPing the talk page. COVID-19 ], though this specific ''article'' is protected. The purpose of protecting the page (in this case) is to push newer users to the talk page, where they can discuss changes they want made (such as by edit requests) and contribute towards consensus-building while not edit warring. Protecting talk pages is truly, ''truly'' a last resort. Ordinary good faith people would be entirely shut out and silenced—we'd not even get edit requests—and I frankly don't see anything near the level of disruption/LTA abuse that would justify jumping straight to ]. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 01:55, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::::@], not ECP. ECR: non-EC are restricted from anything but making edit requests. ] (]) 14:48, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::I see. In any case, ECR is the sort of remedy that should be reserved for more or less when all else fails—it’s still ''super'' restrictive. If new users/inexperienced users are trying to contribute towards consensus-building on the talk page (or even if they’re doing ordinary confused new editor things), and aren’t edit warring, I don’t think we’d actually be ] by enforcing ECR.
:::::Suppose someone in good-faith sees “anyone can edit”, and they want to edit something topical. But then they see that the page that they want to edit is protected. They read the explanation that appears after clicking the “view source” tab. They then read that they can discuss this page with others, click on the first blue link, and then make a section using the “add topic” button in order to start a discussion.
:::::“OK”, the newbie thinks, “maybe I will find someone else who agrees with me, or I’ll at least get some answer as to why the article is this way”. They leave their computer and come back in an hour. They then discover that their question has been removed by some random editor with edit summary “] violation, user not ]; malformed edit request” and find a contentious topics notice on their own user talk page, all because they don’t make a properly formatted edit request (i.e. “please change X to Y”). Or maybe they wont navigate the talk page history and they’ll angrily post that their earlier comment was deleted. Or maybe they just won’t come back. To top it off, nothing at any point in this process was obvious to them that such a requirement existed—there is no edit notice that says so, and so they couldn’t know.
:::::] is ]y. It dissuades new voices from joining conversations, and it makes it somewhat hostile to true newbies. In particular, it dissuades people who, for example:
:::::#Are Not hardcore/insane enough to deal with intense wiki-bureaucracy;
:::::#Are unable to cope with handling unfamiliar wikitext markup when making edit requests for anything that is not a trivial word change, or who have abstract changes in mind more than concrete ones;
:::::#Do not want to spend an hour of their time to figure out how to say the magic words to summon another editor to fix a typo.
:::::The chief way that ECR works is by making LTAs/sockmasters have to put on a lot of effort or make a lot of edits. This raises the (time) cost of socking, and it has the benefit of possibly exposing tells along the way. But that also means that we’re imposing the same thing on good-faith newbies.
:::::When deciding whether or not to impose ECR, we have to balance that it is extremely BITEy to good-faith newbies against its ability to prevent disruption. There are times where we are basically left to throw our hands up because of LTA/sockmaster abuse, and conclude that the tradeoff is worth it; the ArbCom has done this for certain contentious topics. But, the ArbCom had the wisdom to not enable ECR as a page sanction across all contentious topic areas—there is a very real tradeoff that needs to be really carefully considered. And I don’t the tradeoff leans towards embracing ECR ''here''. — <span style="background: linear-gradient(#990000,#660000)">]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub></span> 15:48, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::I'm don't think we need to have this discussion here and now, but I don't disagree it's bitey and needs to be used only where necessary. I was just asking the question of someone who is working at that article: is this an article talk where it's necessary? ] (]) 17:45, 15 January 2025 (UTC)


==Marlarkey==
I have not repeated any of the conduct that lead to my topic ban, rather I have learnt an important lesson regarding ] and have tried to avoid a repeat. This smacks of retaliation, rather than engaging in the consensus process, Imalbornoz has repeatedly engaged in personal attacks and sought admin intevention to remove me from consensus building. We currently have an amicable discussion re content and rather than engaging in that process Imalbornoz is seeking admin intervention yet again. I request that Imalbornoz is warned about ] and in particular the requirement not to bring up past disputes for which an editor has repeatedly apologised and has not repeated the same conduct. ] <small>]</small> 23:56, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
{{hat|Marlarkey p-blocked from ] and formally warned to be more mindful of policies, guidelines and best practices when editing CTOPs, particularly PIA <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 19:54, 16 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Marlarkey===
:I can provide many diffs of bad faith and personal attacks but would prefer to use the consensus building process on the talk page. This I believe would be a lasting solution to the article's problems. ] <small>]</small> 00:18, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|WeatherWriter}} 23:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Marlarkey}}<p>{{ds/log|Marlarkey}}</p>
{{od}}


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
Regarding accusation of edit warring in 4 above. May I draw attention to the fact that Imalbornoz is misrepresenting the situation. I was not told I was wrong by ] rather Imalbornoz misinformed said admin, I later provided clarification and I note the matter was concluded amicably without rancour with an amplification of my edit that considerably improved the article. Admin ] actually requested that we both cease frivolous complaints .


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
Regarding my comments on tag team edit warring, sadly this has occurred before, and was used to impose content over and above objections. I don't think it is unreasonable to discuss this given the clear and repeated threat to impose content eg .
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
Regarding the repeated misrepresentation of my position. which is presented as . Misrepresentation of my position is common as well as referring to a position from which I've already compromised. I can provide more diffs.
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->


''''''
Sadly I can provide numerous examples of uncivil comments but I have a thick skin and would prefer to work on content. ] <small>]</small> 00:58, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
# - Mainspace PIA edit prior to EC status.
# - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request and acknowledgement of aforementioned edit.
# - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request.
# - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request. Accused another editor of vandalism.
# - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request. Says, "I don't give a stuff about what you or Israel say about the declaration."
# - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status. Accused editor of "vandalism" in edit summary.
# - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status. Accused editor of "vandalism" in edit summary.


''''''
==== Additional Statement ====
# - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status.
# - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request.
# - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request..."''Someone has reverted my removal of Israel - Hamas *AGAIN* so I've taken it out *AGAIN*.''"
# - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status.
# - Self-revert of direct previous mainspace reversion that was prior to EC status.
# - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status...Made while this enforcement request was being typed up. This reversion by Marlarkey is of an edit with the direct edit summary of "Per ]". User is 100% disregarding CT requirements.


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any : N/A. No previous blocks or topic bans.
In response to my edit, which is now complained about, I was the focus of a series of personal attacks , , . Note the comments did not discuss the edit per ] but focused solely on the editor. I'm happy to discuss content but will not respond to personal attacks. The text I edited is problematic, it focuses on providing details of what Imalbornoz refers to as "atrocities" and "desecrations", both ] that ]. Its also completely unbalanced, ] picking certain facts and ignoring others.
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): at 15:29, 21 November 2024.
We attempted an RFC. I requested that text be allowed to stand on merit, that request was ignored and the walls of text referred to in the Arbcom case resulted that deterred any outside opinion.


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
During and prior to the AN/I discussion mentioned below I was subjected to a series of personal attacks. At no point did I respond in kind. None of those responsible have received any sanction as a result. Imalbornoz was warned to refrain from personal attacks but note they were repeated above.
User has been on Misplaced Pages (on and off) since at least January 2010. It seems there is a ]-related issue on ArbCom PIA/Contentious topics, given the very clear lack of ignorance of the ArbCom Notification and subsequent edit summary arguments. I do not necessarily believe a block will be of use in this case, due to this editor's on-and-off Misplaced Pages editing status (less than 500 edits since January 2010). Either a topic ban and/or a 1,000 EC status requirement (i.e. EC-status requirement is something higher than 500 edits) is being requested. '''The ]''' (] 23:36, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
*One of the edits by Marlarkey listed above from 13 January 2025 has been by {{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}} for Marlarkey not being ECR logged. '''The ]''' (] 23:37, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
:*{{ping|Marlarkey}} I want to ], so I wanted to let you know that ] is what we call "broadly constructed". If you read ], it says, "{{tq|These are the current arbitration remedies applicable to any pages and edits that could be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict.}}" The edit you are attempting to me is ''related'' to the Arab-Israel conflict. The page itself does not have to be entirely about the war to be covered under the restrictions. Any edit that is at least, even slightly related to the conflict is covered under the restrictions. While the page is about declarations of war throughout history, the specific edit is related to whether the Israel-Hamas war was a declaration of war. That is obviously related to the conflict, given it specifically is in regard to the ]. That is why the edits were reverted and why this violation report was filed. Hopefully that makes sense. Also, just a quick side-note, accusing other editors of vandalism is ] and is not really how Misplaced Pages operates. You should always ]. '''The ]''' (] 23:50, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::*{{ping|Marlarkey}} We are all working together to create a better encyclopedia. No one is against you and we do wish for all to edit Misplaced Pages. The ArbCom restrictions require that you have (1) at least an account of 30 days old and (2) at least 500 edits, to be able to edit content anywhere on Misplaced Pages regarding the Israel-Hamas war. At the time of all the edits linked above, you did not have 500 edits on Misplaced Pages. You were roughly at 490. At the time of this, you now have over 500 edits, which means you could now edit content regarding the Israel-Hamas war. That said, this report was made because of the several edits you made prior to reaching the 500 edit requirement.


:::Please understand this is for the edits that you made which were in clear violation of the policy, which requires you to have 500 edits prior to editing anything even remotely related to the conflict. This report was not that you are incorrect with your removal of the content. Not at all. This report is because you removed the content before you were allowed to (i.e. the 500-edit mark). Please understand we all are on the same-side here and no one is vandalizing anything. Once this is resolved, I would be more than happy to calmly discuss the content changes with you. I hope you can understand that this report is specifically because you made the changes before you were allowed to and not at all regarding the content in those changes. '''The ]''' (] 00:52, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
Ed states below that Imalbornoz and I were apparently equally guilty of edit warring on 12 November. I do not accept that, I walked away from the discussion following the personal attacks . It was a dumb lame dispute, that was easily solved on the talk page but when the discussion turned intemperate I walked away from it. Note that I did not respond in kind to personal attacks, so I am somewhat bewildered by accusations my conduct was comparable.


*{{ping|Rosguill}} After my last reply, I realized I went 105 words over the 500-word limit. I would like to request that 105-word extension (so I do not have to reword or remove the last reply I made). I do not plan to reply again as I think everything I needed to say and link to has been said and linked to. '''The ]''' (] 00:56, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
My edit summaries are and I quote "bombastic", please, what has happened to ]? I replaced text that violates ] with neutral text, stating what was wrong with it. Come on, how else would you summarise that in an edit summary? I also removed a NPOV tag I'd added but please note that when Richard and Imalbonoz "reverted" this was not restored. Please also note the first diff presented by Ed is not a revert, its an edit.


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
There is a serious problem with ] on this article right now. This case is intended to drive another editor from editing. Please consider the evidence and don't leap to judgement. ] <small>]</small> 09:25, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
:This is now getting silly. Show me a diff where I have been in violation of , , . Regarding this by Imalbornoz is clearly in violation, regarding may I draw attention to these reverts and both by Imalbornoz that ignored the consensus on the talk page and in which he did not participate till after these reverts, compare with this ] where I am clearly building a consensus and the sole source of disruptive comments is Imalbornoz eg just when we have agreement, Imalbornoz chooses to disagree claiming the text is not neutral. Finally ref see - again by Imalbornoz. May I ask a point for procedure, are unsubstantiated allegations unsupported by diffs not a personal attack per ]? Knowing Imalbornoz if they existed you can bet he would have posted them - clearly they don't.
:* I have asked a number of editors not to post on my talk page, solely because of past intemperate comments from those individuals. Discussions on content belong on the article talk page and in the past comments on my talk page have attempted to bait me into an intemperate response.
:* Regarding , presented by Imalbornoz. I did try to engage discussion on the talk page and for example, following a series of personal attacks I may add. He chose to ignore that, instead preferring to lobby for admin action. Regarding his explanation, I pointed out that Gibraltarian refers to both residents and natives - ] being required for residents. My points on that matter were reasonable.
:* Regarding his final point, note I did not bring up past disputes and requested a focus on content not editors. This has been lacking from Imalbornoz he has frequently brought up past disputes in complete violation of ] I have not repeated any of the conduct that lead to my topic ban - he has no evidence whatsoever that I have. This appears to be an abuse of the ] process to discourage my participation on that article. ] <small>]</small> 13:18, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


===Discussion concerning Marlarkey===
::I note that yet again I am falsely accused by Richard of suppressing mention of San Roque. I don't, I never have, and I have always been willing to compromise but simply object to an edit that says the exodus went to San Roque, seeing as San Roque was founded by refugees from Gibraltar <u>2 years</u> later. Remember this is an overview and if you check other online overviews, they don't feel the need to mention it. All I ask is that either this information is supplied or we go for a more general term; a compromise that resulted from mediation. I find the text favoured by Richard and Imalbornoz misleading and that is why I object to it. Again this is an example of my position being misrepresented as a means to paint me as unreasonable, whereas a perfectly reasonable compromise is rejected to favour a text that misleads. ] <small>]</small> 20:44, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Marlarkey====
====Comments by others about the request concerning Wee Curry Monster ====
It might be worth noting that recent comments of Imalbornoz have led to the AE reminder and that others in the debate have been engaging in rather baiting behaviour (Richard's long rant accusing Justin of incompetance is especially helpful. And this is a person who claims to be a neutral mediator.). I'd argue it is no place of Imal and Richard to bandy around sanction threats, as they have done, with someone they so clearly despise and have prior history with. Justin has issues with various parts of what is proposed (mostly based around suitability for a main article over a stub), others have similar concerns that overlap on areas with Justin's. It is claimed he is obstructionist...yet Richard and Imalbornoz have proved equally intransigent (Especially in view of Richard, who casually dismisses Justin at every turn, providing no rational as if he is on some hell bent crusade to cause trouble). I hope the person looking at this looks over the history carefully, and looks at the verbal battering one takes from walls of texts that either go around in circles or are out to insult a user. <span style="font-family: helvetica;"> --] ~ ] • </span> 00:26, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
:Addendum: It was asked if action was required...I'd say no. There is nothing here other than the usual attempts to use AE to bully editors into a consensus they don't agree with - On controversial articles it can often take a while to get cnsensus on wording, AE shoud not condone use of itself as a bypass to this difficult but necessary process. The only blocks I'd see would be Richard for repeated personal attacks, and that is outside the scope of AE. <span style="font-family: helvetica;"> --] ~ ] • </span> 11:58, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


{{userlinks|WeatherWriter}} is repeatedly reverting edits which are removing information outside the scope of the page in question. My edits are validly citated within the scope of the page. {{userlinks|WeatherWriter}} has cited WP:ARBPIA but that is not relevant to THIS article which is not a Palestine-Israel article. This article is not a contentious topic - it is factual.
::I'd agree here. Though I'm not actually convinced the personal attacks are outside the scope of ] given the arbitration ruling. Hence my comments below. '']'' <small>'']''</small> 18:44, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


My edits are WP:NPOV. This article is about declarations of war - the opening statement states "A declaration of war is a formal act by which one state announces existing or impending war activity against another."
:The main problem here is not any one edit or dispute. It is the immense amount of futile argumentation about everything, and specifically its incompetent handling by WCM in particular. Those who wish to reprise the arguments so far may trawl the archives, starting perhaps with ]. I wouldn't want to impose such a task on anyone, it's only required if I fail to make clear here how frustrating it is to try to discuss with him. Commonly, his arguments/edit summaries quote the Misplaced Pages policy which he thinks is relevant, without actually explaining why the policy might be relevant. Between trying to understand what his summary means, trying to correct his misinterpretation of sources (check the table of arguments at the end of ], trying to produce a text which will not prejudge several nationalist points, and trying to cope with further ], we get nowhere.
1. Hamas is not a nation state - So Israel vs Hamas should not be included in the article
2. Hezbollah is not a nation state - So Israel vs Hezbollah should not be included in the article
3. Russia vs Ukraine are both nation states - the question then is whether there has been a declaration of war.


In the case 1 & 2, the removal of these two entries is WP:NPOV and the inclusion or otherwise in this article is in no way a comment on the conflict in question - only whether they constitute a declaration of war by one nation state on another. Which they do not because they are nation states.
:It's just over a year since I joined this discussion, responding to an RfC. I came in at ], and from well before then the archives record acrimonious and ultimately vain attempts to include Wee Curry Monster/Justin A Kuntz in various consensuses. (Not that he was the only problem at the time.) As I have , I do not feel that Wee Curry Monster has sufficient competence to contribute usefully to this page. I judge that he is doing his best in good faith, but simply does not understand how to take part in a productive discussion. We have had many months of filibustering and disruption, with good editors and wellmeaning mediators being driven away and those who stay the course wasting huge amounts of time. It's often been easier to leave him to have the last word in the hope that he will realize how unhelpful most of his comments are. Short of decisive intervention (as we have recently had in one specific issue), I see no reason to anticipate improvement.


In the case of 3, the inclusion of Russia vs Ukraine only relies on whether there has been a declaration of war. The citation I gave is documented evidence of Russia announcing that a state of war exists between Russia and Ukraine.
:One specific issue may illustrate the general problem. We are currently ] with the mention of San Roque as the main destination (with current implications for at least one national narrative) of the Spanish refugees from Gibraltar after the Anglo-Dutch conquest of 1704. For a couple of years Justin/WCM has been trying to keep it out of the article, with the main reason for their flight, namely fear after riotous invasion and atrocities committed under guarantees of safety. The consensus text (minus references) is: ''"The terms of surrender provided certain assurances but commanders lost control, sailors and marines engaged in rape and pillage, desecrating most churches, and townspeople carried out reprisal killings. By 7 August, after order was restored, almost all the population felt that staying in Gibraltar was too dangerous and fled to San Roque and other nearby areas of Spain."'' Justin/WCM replaces this with a passing allusion and a minor piece of original research: ''"Attempts to win over the population to the Imperial cause were frustrated by the disorder that followed. The effects of this, combined with the expectation of a Spanish counter attack led most of the townspeople to leave."'' (Those coming new to this specific issue and wanting to look at the references may wish to check the quotations currently available at ].) The San Roque issue here is a major theme from October 2009. We achieved the consensus text only when Justin/WCM was banned, and the issue , with , on Justin/WCM's return.


I suggest that by taking the action they have that the complainant is the one acting in a that asserts a political opinion about the conflict
:While Justin/WCM has now served his ban, the ] included specifically ''"Editors wishing to edit in the area of dispute are advised to edit carefully, to adopt Misplaced Pages's communal approaches (including appropriate conduct, ]..."'', and that advice on dispute resolution includes ''"Resolve disputes calmly, through civil discussion and consensus-building on relevant discussion pages."''. Making highly contentious edits and following them with semi-relevant wrangles, accusations, and disclaimers does not help us to build a better encyclopedia and it is a behaviour pattern which might reasonably attract enforcement action under the terms of the existing ]. Without some decisive external action this page will continue to go nowhere. I am not sure that bans are required; if some particularly saintly admin has time to to keep a watching brief on the page and occasionally give firm and enforceable advice, this may solve the problem. ] (]) 17:44, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


::When Richard refers to getting people involved in consensuses, it's worth making the point clear. In general, such "consensuses" occurred when everyone on one side of a dispute supported an edit and everyone on the other side opposed. The side with the larger number of editors - including Richard and Imalbornoz - was able to strong-arm their content into the article. But this was before the Arbcom ruling.


The reference by Weatherwriter to 21 November 2024 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Is only a partial quote - what I actually said was "I don't give a stuff about what you or Israel say about the declaration. I care about whether it is in the scope of this page."
::Richard has recently again proposed a similar tactic be used when . We were not even close to the point where this might have even been considered, had it been someone else who had opposed. The whole point of asking for the topic ban back is so that this can be institutionalised: so that when Curry Monster's view is inconvenient to Richard and Imalbornoz, it can be ignored without fuss. That isn't reasonable and in this case would be strongly disproportionate - particularly given as Curry Monster has not repeated ''any'' of the behaviour that led to the topic ban.
The key is the final point - the scope of this article and whether the edits are validly cited in accordance with the topic of the article...namely a list of declarations of war.


Weatherwriter reversions of my edits serve to support a political opinion on a page which is about facts.
::I notice at this stage also that Richard quotes sections about editing carefully, and resolving disputes calmly through civil discussion and consensus-building. I therefore ask editors to judge - Richard's attempt at the "Discuss" part of the Bold-Revert-Discuss cycle - in that light. You will note that by starting up the discussion with a large number of personal remarks, barely touching upon the edit concerned, Richard completely derailed the discussion and with it any hope of resolving the dispute calmly, through civil discussion and consensus-building. You will also note Richard and Imalbornoz's continued refusal to discuss the issue.


'''I'm pretty angry about being accused in this way when MY edits were factually based and neutral point of view, whereas by reverting my edits it does precisely the opposite, allowing contentious and politically biased information to infect the page.''' GRRRRRRrrr
::You may also find fairly illuminating: may I suggest that a 2000-word essay on the subject of another editor's "incompetence" could not reasonably fit within the bounds of ''"edit carefully"'' or ''"esolve disputes calmly, through civil discussion and consensus-building on relevant discussion pages"'' even if the two editors concerned hadn't had to go to Arbcom to try and resolve their differences. I can only come up with two explanations: either Richard was trying to bait Curry Monster into the sort of behaviour that led to the topic ban in the first place, or he was so naïve that one would have to seriously question ''his'' competence. All in all, given how much stirring Richard has done, I think he's just about the last one who should be preaching to us about editing carefully and resolving disputes through civil discussion.


] (]) 23:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
::This is not the place to discuss the content. That would be the article talk page. In the period immediately preceding this AE, no editor had given any objection to Curry Monster's edit that could be sustained by policy. Read the discussion, you see that Curry Monster was told he was not allowed to be ], but the objection might as well have been "because I said so".


::On filibustering and disruption, another point that Richard raises. Let me point out ]. Note that Curry Monster opposed the RFC, asking for strict anti-filibuster rules: otherwise, we would be filibustered. That was overruled by the admin concerned and, surprise surprise, the RFC was filibustered. And who started the filibuster? Imalbornoz and Richard. There are two sides to this dispute and Imalbornoz and Richard have not behaved well. '']'' <small>'']''</small> 18:36, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


On another point, following me reviewing the information in this complaint by WeatherWriter...
===Result concerning Wee Curry Monster===
"If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)" The complainant cites a link to information which I have JUST accessed and have never seen before just now. I was NOT aware of this information so it is false to suggest that this constitutes evidence that I was aware.
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
* I am currently reviewing the history of the talk page and various links provided. One thing I will immediately take note of is that this is an arbitration enforcement request based loosely on a 3 month topic ban than expired 4 months ago. Further links to any relevant discussions (section links, not diffs, where possible) and admin discussion regarding the matter would be helpful. Please bear with me while I take the time to carefully read over the history and current happenings. I will try to reply in a few hours, but not may be able to do so until tomorrow. ] (]) 03:07, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
* It might be good to get more Gibraltar editors to comment, to see if the new problems are enough to call for enforcement. If we're listing all the misbehavior since 1 November, I'd offer two examples:
:A. The skirmish around November 12 where editors argued about the definition of 'Gibraltarian' and got into an edit war, which later quieted down. See the ] which closed on 14 November.
::*In this war I think Wee Curry Monster and Imalbornoz are about equally to blame.
:B. Revert warring by Wee Curry Monster at ], which started on 7 December and continued on 12 December. See these diffs:


Again this makes me angry at the accusations being made against me. If you don't want people editing and contributing to wikipedia then please just say so. GRRR
:# <small>(edit summary: "/* History */ replacing POV section that violates ] with neutral text, removing POV label")</small>
] (]) 00:35, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
:# <small>(edit summary: "rv edit actually contravenes wiki policy on NPOV see ]")</small>
*:I give up... I'm being accused and being told off for responding to the accusation. I don't know anything about this procedure, have never seen this page before and know nothing about how this works because its new to me.
:# <small>(edit summary: "Undid revision 401989802 by ] (]) rv ] & ] policy wins over strong feelings")</small>
:In the 7 December fight, I think it's mostly Wee Curry Monster who is doing the warring. He did revert twice in one day (7 December), and his edit summaries are bombastic. ] (]) 05:00, 13 December 2010 (UTC) *:But I get it - I'm not part of the club that decides things... so I'll let you get on with that. ] (]) 00:47, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
::::<small>(Moved from WeatherWriter's section</small> I get it - you'd rather call me out by this procedure than have an accurate encyclopaedia article. You've made accusations against me and put me through this over restrictions that I knew nothing about and policies I knew nothing about. I simply came across something inaccurate and followed what I understood to be WP principles and made an objectively accurate edit.
::::So now the end result is that an inaccurate article containing a politically biased assertion is going to stay live. ] (]) 02:24, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
===Result concerning Marlarkey===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
-->
{{u|Marlarkey}}, you have gone a bit over your 500 word allotment for responses. Please do not comment further unless directly asked to. I will remove an additional reply that was both over your limit and in the wrong section. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 00:40, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
::{{u|Weather Event Writer}}, extension granted as that's essentially what Marlarkey has already taken. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 01:07, 14 January 2025 (UTC)


==Delicious carbuncle==
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
===Request concerning Delicious carbuncle===
; User requesting enforcement : -- ''']''' (]) 04:22, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


Ok, having now reviewed ]'s page history, its talk page discussion, and Marlarkey's contributions more generally, I find that:
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Delicious carbuncle}}
:* Marlarkey has repeatedly violated ] at ] since having received a CTOP notice
:*Irrespective of whether it is correct or not to include the Israel-Hamas war, Israel-Hezbollah war, or wars between states and non-state entities more broadly, WeatherWriter's edits to the page are plainly not ], which has a specific (and serious) meaning on Misplaced Pages
:*It appears to be a long-term status quo to include non-state entities provided that there is a citation to some sort of formal declaration of war, and the page's inclusion of conflicts involving non-states ] and ] do not appear to have been challenged at any point.
:*Marlarkey is incorrect to assert that their edit is {{tq|objectively accurate}}. Whether the edit is accurate is subject to community consensus, and the talk page arguments in favor of inclusion base themselves on RS reporting which is a valid, policy-compliant argument. Marlarkey's arguments that a declaration of war can only occur be between two states do not make any reference to a reliable source stating this; while that text is currently in the lead of the article, it does not have a citation nor is it clear that any citation in the article directly backs this.
:*In light of discussion at ], which at this point shows multiple editors in favor of keeping the Hamas and Hezbollah wars, only Marlarkey firmly for removing them, and one other editor calling for discussion as of December 31st, Marlarkey's edits to unilaterally remove the entries in January amount to slow-motion edit warring
:*Given that Marlarkey has had an account for well over a decade, has edited a wide variety of topics, hit 500 edits while this was happening, does not appear to have otherwise shown interest in Israel/Palestine topics, and that the edits at Declaration of war don't fit into any clear POV-warrior pattern, I don't think that pulling extended-confirmed or issuing a PIA topic ban would help.
I'm thus inclined to suggest an indefinite partial block from ] (but not its talk page) as a regular admin action for edit warring, and a logged warning to be mindful of CTOP standards. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 04:10, 14 January 2025 (UTC
*As Marlarkey stated that they were unaware of CT, I wanted to confirm that I double checked and found that the CT notice was properly left in November. If Marlarkey chose not to read it, well, that's rather on him&mdash;we can only leave messages, we can't force people to read them. I would otherwise agree with Rosguill's assessment. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 12:00, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*I entirely endorse Rosguill's reading of this. I am not happy about Marlarkey's approach to our restrictions, but I don't see this as EC gaming, and I can't see how pulling EC rights could be justified at this stage. As such I endorse the proposed page block and logged warning. Marlarkey, you seem to believe that because you are right on the substance you can ignore process and guidelines - that simply isn't true. The arbitration committee has consistently held that ]; you need to be able to edit within the scope of our policies. ] (]) 17:10, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
* Pretty much everything Rosquill said. {{u|Marlarkey}}, it doesn't look like you have a huge amount of experience working in ]s. I'm sorry you're finding this upsetting, but CTOPs are a whole 'nother world, and you're either going to have to learn how to nonproblematically work there, or not work there. ] (]) 18:39, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
*:FWIW, the CTOP warning was ]. You've got your archiving set so aggressively that you may be missing a lot of messages, and it's completely plausible that you missed this one, which was only on your talk for two days, and after it was left you didn't edit for a month. However, we do assume that if you've got your archiving set that aggressively, you're keeping on top of anything important by checking your notifications to make sure you didn't miss anything.
*:You can probably prevent this happening in future by having your talk page archive ''no more frequently than you typically go between editing sessions'', leaving maybe the five most recent messages unarchived, and/or being sure to check your notifications when logging back in. Any one of those three and you've have likely seen the notification. ] (]) 18:51, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hatb}}


==DanielVizago==
;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ] and ].
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning DanielVizago===
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Schazjmd}} 23:23, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
# - Adds poorly sourced, Scientology info to ] page, on actress, ].
# - Again, at same page, engages in disruption, after the source and info was disputed for use in the ], reverts to add the contested source back into the page.
# - After multiple users at ] commented ''against'' using the contested source on ] pages, user engages in disruption and reverts to add the disputed source back to the ] page, again.
# - Note: After I reported the above diffs of BLP violations to ANI - user does not engage substance of BLP violations reported in the ANI post - instead choosing to attack the poster .
# User engages in violation of ], posts to multiple different pages causing disruption on many different Misplaced Pages-process pages relating to the topic: RSN , BLPN , NPOVN , WT:SCN , BLPN in different sect , User talk:Jimbo Wales .
#:'''Note:''' In user's reports of new complaints about different article pages, user fails to attempt to address any issues at article talk pages, instead choosing to directly escalate the matter to the above-listed multiple Misplaced Pages-process pages. &mdash; as pointed out by {{user|Nomoskedasticity}} , and {{user|Bbb23}} .
# - Disruption at ANI on Scientology-related discussion, reverts against collapse of discussion made by previous edit from {{user| ResidentAnthropologist}}.
# - Six minutes later, when the thread was again collapsed, this time by {{user|Coffeepusher}}, user in question again reverts and disrupts ANI, against this 2nd editor.
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
# - Notice of ], by {{user|Jayron32}}
# - Comment by {{user|Scott MacDonald}}, informed may be blocked for BLP disruption, commented to user, ''''
# - Warning by {{user|Coffeepusher}}, who stated, ''''
# - Warning by {{user|GraemeL}}, commenting, ''''
# - Warning by {{user|FisherQueen}}, commenting, ''''
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : Block, or topic ban, per discretion of reviewing admin. -- ''']''' (]) 04:22, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|DanielVizago}}<p>{{ds/log|DanielVizago}}</p>
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : Thank you for your time. -- ''']''' (]) 04:22, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
* = AE notice given. -- ''']''' (]) 04:23, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
===Discussion concerning Delicious carbuncle===

====Statement by Delicious carbuncle====
To the best of my recollection, I have not edited any articles having to do with the Church of Scientology or Scientologists in general, with the sole exception of the edits to the biography of ] (who only temporarily fell into that category when I added a source which was at that time used in other BLPs). I am not a Scientologist. I have no particular interest in the Church of Scientology. My interest is in the neutrality of Misplaced Pages and the even-handed application of our policies and guidelines, especially as they relate to living persons. Unless there is a prohibition against discussing Scientology-related articles in the context of our policies and guidelines, this is a farcical action.

I stand by everything I said about Cirt in , and I believe I have provided sufficient evidence to prove my case. Concisely put, Cirt is an anti-Church of Scientology POV-pusher who wilfully ignores our ] and ] policies in order to identity, minimize, and generally portray members of the Church of Scientology in a negative light. This is not a new problem and it should come as no surprise to anyone who has looked seriously at this subject area.

Thank you for your time. ] (]) 06:04, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

====Comments by others about the request concerning Delicious carbuncle ====
The idea that DC is not editing in the Scientology area is implausible, given the amount of time/space he has been devoting to the topic at a variety of noticeboards, including J Wales's talk page. The disruptive element of his editing, if any, is precisely that he ''hasn't'' simply worked on the articles that bother him -- instead, he has been going straight to the noticeboards, without attempting to fix anything himself first. ] (]) 08:03, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

*Reading through some of this users comments it seem like a temporary topic area ban would be a good idea. His first edits were an engagement in an edit war which was followed by a failure to ] verging on personal attacks. ] (] · ] · ]) 08:07, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

*Having just returned from a wikibreak and being totally unaware of the history here, I saw Delicious carbuncle blatantly forum shopping his complaints through first ] and then ] when he received no satisfaction there. Just as I warned him that I considered what he was doing was an abuse of the BLP process (not even attempting to correct perceived problems at the article or article talk pages before bringing them to wider notice) and that I was close to blocking him for disruption, he moved his grievances on to Jimbo's talk page and ]. Any topic ban imposed on this user should also include an injunction against him forum shopping his grievances. --] ] 11:14, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

*The editor seems to be acting disruptively and failing to assume good faith. Dispute resolution starts on the talk pages - it's not a step that should be skipped. One of the simplest forms of dispute resolution is to just step back. Perhaps DC would consider a voluntary break from the topic for a while. If not, then a topic ban may be necesary. &nbsp; <b>]&nbsp; ]&nbsp; </b> 11:25, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' This clearly has nothing to do with ] or the arbitration rulings. This clearly has to do with Carbuncle and Cirt. Was carbuncle editing in this area before he targeted an article written by Cirt that he knew Cirt would be protective of? Were the noticeboard complaints about Scientology issues that did not involve Cirt? I agree that Carbuncle made ] edits to the Sorrentini article, and followed them up with a campaign against Cirt after Cirt took the bait, but come on folks, '''this has nothing to do with Scientology specifically'''. It is clear as day. Carbuncle is also being disruptive to the extent that he isn't following normal procedures by going to AN/I. If he thinks there is a systematic problem with Cirt's edits in the Scientology area he should open an RFC/U or make specific requests for enforcement here. If he thinks there are specific problems with content he should use content noticeboards. Anyway, the idea that this should be enforced here is pretty ridiculous.] (]) 13:45, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' this has nothing to do with Scientology arbitration. DC is trying to deal with Cirt's ownership of various scientology articles, frequently BLPs, that have to do with Cirts anti-scientology campaign on wikipedia. DC was making a point about the dodginess of sources frequently used by Cirt, and seems to have gotten some positive movement as a result. Cirt also frequently uses filings such as this one to try to stifle disagreement with him and muddy the waters. Fully endorse Jayen's thoughtful comments below. If this needs to be dealt with, AE is not the place. This is a dispute about Cirt's editing behavior in BLPs (or, perhaps, about DC's inappropriate complaints about Cirt's editing behavior) and those issues should be dealt with probably at an RFC/U, not here. P.S. I don't think i've ever edited an article involving scientology and think the so-called faith is filled with narcissistic kooks and sad dupes.] (]) 16:43, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
:The diffs of recent problematic edits by {{user|Delicious carbuncle}} are directly related to the user's disruption on the topic covered by ]. -- ''']''' (]) 16:46, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

=====Comments by Jayen466=====
*Several editors recommended to Delicious carbuncle at ANI that he should use the noticeboards to address the BLP problems he believed to have identified. As far as I can tell, these noticeboard discussions led Cirt and others to make substantial changes in many of these articles. Cirt has reported these changes at BLPN. They have improved the articles concerned. So where is the problem in that? I commend Delicious carbuncle for initiating these discussions, because we have long-standing BLP problems in biographies of Scientologists, especially minor Scientologists. It's hardly surprising, giving the subject matter. Neither is it surprising that some familiar faces are rallying around Cirt's defence above, nor is it surprising that Cirt, who feels attacked, launches a counterattack. We had an ANI thread about Cirt's use of admin noticeboards for leverage in content disputes just a few weeks ago: This filing is another example of the same, and it does not help Misplaced Pages. People have to be able to work on problems in Scientology articles without being subjected to a chilling effect, whereby any new editor in this topic area who disagrees with Cirt ends up at WP:AE or WP:ANI.
*For background -- I said at ANI, and will say it here, that Cirt's editing in this area, while producing some ''outstanding'' content work, has also often had problematic aspects to it. It is sad to have to bring this up, but given the light in which Delicious Carbuncle's actions are painted here, it is necessary for perspective.
**Cirt has committed BLP violations like (inserting a self-published YouTube video airing allegations of sexual abuse against living persons, in violation of ]).
**When ] (]) stood as a candidate against Jeff Stone in a ] election, Cirt wrote a puff-piece for Dickson (admins should read this deleted article), omitting any mention of the the man. The reason appeared to be that anti-Scientologists . Cirt also the article on ], the other candidate running against Stone (and eventual winner), in time for the election. (Jeff Stone does not have a Misplaced Pages article. Commentators were with how well Dickson had done.) This borders on using Misplaced Pages for Scientology-related political advocacy. The Dickson article was discovered and deleted as a puff piece of a non-notable politician after the election was over.
**Cirt insisted at ] (aided by some of those commenting above) that ] in Misplaced Pages. This is the definition of a Scientologist the Church of Scientology uses to inflate their membership statistics, but it is certainly not a definition any reliable source would endorse. Listing people like ], ] and ] as Scientologists spawned several BLPN threads, and got Jimbo involved (note Jimbo's comment on Cirt's editing , and Jimbo's reference to Cirt's "well known (anti)Scientology activism" ).
*Many more such examples could be added. Not everyone who has a concern about Cirt's editing in this topic area and comments at noticeboards is "disruptive" and deserves topic banning. The difference between Jimbo and Delicious Carbuncle is that taking Jimbo to AE wouldn't work.
*If I have one criticism of Cirt, it is her defensiveness and the way she uses admin boards like this one. Cirt often bristles when it comes to Scientology articles (see dispute with ]). But I also note that many of these disputes end up being solved through talk page discussion these days, and I commend Cirt for that. Cirt has been responsive to complaints and suggestions, even in this case, and gone above and beyond the call of duty to research balancing material, or delete sources found to be non-reliable at RSN, to put articles in order. Because of that, this situation needs ''de-escalation'', not further escalation. This also applies to Delicious Carbuncle: please ''work'' with Cirt, go for content, not the other editor. I would ask Cirt and Delicious Carbuncle to put this behind them, and work as Wikipedians on the actual article concerns. As long as the content concerns are being addressed, that is all that matters; we are not here to engage in vendettas. Both of these editors are, in the end, net positives. Suggest closing this thread, and referring Delicious Carbuncle and Cirt to mediation if they find it difficult to work with each other. --'''<font color="#0000FF">]</font><font color=" #FFBF00">]</font>''' 14:33, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
:Jayen's attempts to shift the focus to attack me notwithstanding, his desperate attempts at citing diffs from years ago and months prior to this particular incident involving {{user|Delicious carbuncle}} does absolutely nothing to show how the above recent actions by {{user|Delicious carbuncle}} are not anything but disruption and violation of arbcom remedies on this topic, that are sanctionable. -- ''']''' (]) 14:50, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
::Cirt, I think this is all pretty sad. More often than not, I see you attacking people to deflect scrutiny of your own actions. --'''<font color="#0000FF">]</font><font color=" #FFBF00">]</font>''' 15:07, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The tactic used right now by Jayen is indeed sad. Jayen used this very exact same tactic in the ] case. Jayen made the vast majority of all of his evidence presentation there consist virtually solely of an attack on me. And yet his evidence was basically ignored, with no sanctions against me in that case. And yet his desperation continues here, attempting to reframe an AE report about {{user|Delicious carbuncle}} into an attack on me - just like Jayen tried to do at ] - and failed there. -- ''']''' (]) 15:10, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
::::I cannot help it if you frame every content disagreement as a personal attack. As I see it, you have ] problem. --'''<font color="#0000FF">]</font><font color=" #FFBF00">]</font>''' 17:11, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::{{user|Jayen466}} spent the bulk of his time during the ] case trying to get a sanction against me. He failed. He is trying here again to frame his attacks against me, in the face of violations and a report concerning another user. -- ''']''' (]) 17:14, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

=====Comment by ResidentAnthropolgist=====
I agree with Jayen466 over the concerns he has raised that do eventually need to be addressed in some sort of format in the near future. I suggested to Delicious Carbuncle very early on in this dispute at would be a better method for dealing with these valid behavioral issues he is concerened about. That being said Delicious Carbuncle behavior has really been too ] and disruptive to to really ignore and probably does require a short term topic for Delicious Carbuncle and interaction ban applied to them both of a duration of 1 month. Those two remedies should allow heads to cool and then have rationale discussion to commence and prevent further escalation. ] (]) 16:17, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
:The problem is there has been no prior attempts by {{user|Delicious carbuncle}} at dispute resolution or attempts to resolve the matter through discussion. Rather, instead the user repeatedly chooses to escalate the issues directly, and engage in disruption across multiple pages. -- ''']''' (]) 16:30, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
::I do not disagree with you on that point. Thus I do think that topic and interaction ban to prevent further disruption and allow heads to cool. Hopefully after that we can initiate a proper centralized content discussion at ]. ] (]) 16:42, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

====How is that an appropriate remedy?====

The remedy applied by ], seems inappropriate from my POV.
#It was the result of a for this user to take a look at his AE filing.
#It institutes an "interaction ban" aimed only at one editor, and aimed specifically at not allowing one editor to report another editor for any policy violations he might see in a specific topic area.
I'm unimpressed by #1 above, but I'm a bit shocked by #2. How can we ban someone from reporting policy violations ever? If Carbuncle harasses Cirt, then block him or seek other remedies. If he files spurious reports, again block him then, but to say ... "you are never ever allowed to report this user for any policy misconduct in the Scientology area", seems completely outside the scope of normal remedies and entirely unfair. Given how many people recognize that Cirt, however productive he might be in many ways, has a very extreme POV when it comes to Scientology, this type of remedy seems even more ridiculous.] (]) 20:12, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
:I have to agree, ] also comment in the ANI thread in the run up to request for enforcement. I think it would be in every ones interest to have an Admin who is completely uninvolved rather than some one who is one peripheral of the discussion. Especially an admin who had already criticized Carbuncle's actions by saying ] (]) 20:21, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
::DC has shown himself to be singularly incapable of dealing with these issues in a responsible way. I have no doubt that other editors will not hesitate to raise issues with Cirt's editing that they believe need review; it sounds like you (Griswaldo) might be prepared to do so yourself. DC's "help" in the matter isn't needed. ] (]) 20:21, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
:::DC's original edits were a ] violation, and a ] violation, but that has nothing to do with the issue I'm raising. Future Perfect is not uninvolved and should not have made this remedy. This AE is tainted. Future Perfect needs to retract the remedy and let an uninvolved admin do it.] (]) 20:26, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
::::Exactly my concern, I dont disagree with the two Remedies in themselves though. I disagree with the ] violation that troubles me. ] (]) 20:30, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

===Result concerning Delicious carbuncle===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
*I'm confused. I see what appears to be an egregious BLP violation for which DC should have been blocked at the time, but that was five days ago. I don't see any violation of any arbitration remedy. Why has this been brought here when ANI would seem a more appropriate venue? ] &#124; ] 19:10, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->
*I'm only slowly catching up with the ugly backstory to this. Apparently, D.c. has been on a long campaign against Cirt, having posted about him extensively both on Misplaced Pages and on Wikipediareview for several months. In late July, after Cirt had created the ] article, D.c. posted on WR about the J.S. article, demonstrating he knew that the subject of that article had reportedly left Scientology and published highly critical material about it on an anti-Sc. blog. Given this knowledge, the fact that he now added the claim that J.S. still is a Sc. member to her bio, citing a source that (even if it had been reliable) was from ''before'' the reports of her leaving the organization and hence quite obviously outdated, can only be interpreted as a deliberate BLP violation as a ] maneuvre, specifically designed to set Cirt up. Given the backstory, D.c.'s professions that he allegedly was not aware about any dispute about her membership don't sound plausible. This is a campaign of bad-faith harassment against another wikipedian, conducted at the expense of a BLP subject.
: I am therefore imposing an indefinite '''topic-ban''' for all Scientology-related edits on ], including but not limited to an '''interaction ban''' against bringing forward any further Sc.-related complaints against ] in any forum. ] ] 19:40, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
::Would it not be advisable to wait for a consensus among uninvolved admins, of whom only you and I have commented here, before taking action that would be perceived as so draconian? ] &#124; ] 20:18, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
::: Discretionary sanctions enforcement is supposed to be something that a single admin can do, explicitly ''without'' necessarily consulting with others. Of course, if a substantial consensus against this sanction should develop, it can be changed. But I'd like to hear how the evidence I cited above could be read in any way other than a deliberate bad-faith attempt on the part of Dc to set Cirt up. ] ] 20:27, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
::::A single '''uninvolved''' admin. When Cirt contacted you to ask you to look at this request, he made you involved, especially when the message might as well have said "please go over to AE and sort out Delicious carbuncle for me". I have no opinion on the merits of your action, but AE has to be and ''appear'' to be, totally above board. ] &#124; ] 20:44, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
After reading further I agree with Furture Perfect that a topic ban is appropriate. ] (] · ] · ]) 20:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

==Benkta==
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
===Request concerning Benkta===
; User requesting enforcement : ] <sup>]</sup> 19:07, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Benkta}}

;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ]


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
# Added ] to a BLP, after CTOP notification and several talk page messages notifying DanielVizago that the category is not to be applied to articles about individuals (per category description, {{tq|This category is for issues relating to misandry. It must not include articles about individuals, groups or media that are allegedly misandrist.}});
# and Removing sourced content from ] that states misandry is not a major an issue as misogyny;
# Changing content in ] to emphasize misandry (reverted by another editor with edit summary {{tq|rv, poorly sourced (sources supplemented by WP:OR and WP:SYNTH), earlier version was better, closer to sources}});
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
# Added "bimisandry" to ], citing 4 sources, none of which include that term;
Not applicable. (A user returning with a new account does not get a new warning.)
# 14 Jan 2025, weird edits adding ] with piped names to unrelated articles, then those names directly to the category page;
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : Indef block or topic ban. Checkuser will probably come back negative because the puppetmaster is stale.
# restored the "bimisandry" edit to ], then a 5th ref that includes the term but is just a blog; I left a 4th-level warning on talk page;
# (after final warning) adds <nowiki>] and ]</nowiki> to ]; those two individuals don't have articles and there is no mention in this article of their charges or convictions, even though the category solely consists of {{tq|articles of female individuals who have been convicted of rape in a court of law.}}


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : A number of editors have been topic banned or banned entirely. These periodically return with new accounts, engaging in the same sort of soap boxing and talk page disruption that got them banned in the first place. Based on behavior, and this being the user's first edit to Misplaced Pages ever, it is pretty clear that they are ''recycled''.
*None


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ''The requesting user is asked to notify the user against whom this request is directed of it, and then to replace this text with a ] of that notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise.''
*I alerted them on


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
===Discussion concerning Benkta===
Above diffs are all edits ''after'' the CTOP notification was provided. Before then, DanielVizago misapplied ] to 46 articles, which is what caught my attention. Their attempts to add "bimisandry" to ] started . On 28 Dec 2024, DanielVizago added a lot of content to ] about misandry, which another editor with edit summary {{tq|remove recently added pro-fringe section and put back the excerpt}}. Most of their 122 edits have been reverted by multiple editors.


Before the level 4 warning, I guiding DanielVizago away from CTOP; they don't engage on their talk page. (They've posted there once, to say "thanks" in response to a warning.) With their refusal to communicate, poor sourcing, and non-NPOV edits, I don't think they should be editing in this topic area. ]&nbsp;] 23:23, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
====Statement by Benkta====


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
====Comments by others about the request concerning Benkta ====
*


'''Do you have any evidence to link this editor with any of the blocked/banned editors you allude to and not just a newbie, albeit a POV-pushing newbie?'''


: Yes. Their behavior is indistinguishable from {{user|Neutral Good}}, and {{User|BryanFromPalatine}}. Check contribution histories. How many new users show up, on their first edit ever, posting tl;dr screeds like this one? The probability is 99% sock puppet, 1% innocent but intemperate new user. I don't know about you, but I have no way to look through the wire and see who's on the other edit. We have to judge editors by their actions. Additionally when two editor's behaviors are indistinguishable, we may treat them as a single editor, even if they might be two different people. (Per ].) ] <sup>]</sup> 19:26, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
::{{small|I'm just going to reply here for clarity and to save the scrolling.}} You may have a point, but, after a review of NG's contribs and the two edits by the respondent in this AE request, I'm not convinced enough that Neutral God = Benkta to block on that basis alone. Other admins may feel differently, so this shouldn't be seen as a decline. In the meantime, I'll warn them and inform them of the case. ] &#124; ] 20:10, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


===Result concerning Benkta=== ===Discussion concerning DanielVizago===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
Do you have any evidence to link this editor with any of the blocked/banned editors you allude to and not just a newbie, albeit a POV-pushing newbie? <s>Also, their talk page is a red link. Please inform them of this request.</s> Thanks, ] &#124; ] 19:17, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by DanielVizago====


====Statement by caeciliusinhorto====
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
Since this report was opened, DanielVizago has continued to make questionable edits adding articles to ].
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->


* , categorising a living person who has been accused (but not charged, let alone convicted) of sexual assault as a rapist (cf. ])
==Solicitr==
* adds the category to a disambiguation page on the basis of one of the people listed on that page, who had in fact been convicted not of rape but of
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
* and edit categorise two sexually-motivated murderers as rapists despite no evidence that they ever raped anyone in the article (cf. ])
===Request concerning Solicitr===
; User requesting enforcement : ] <sup>]</sup> 19:13, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


] (]) 10:53, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Solicitr}}


====Statement by Simonm223====
;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ]


Might be wise, as long as doing so wouldn't interfere with evidence, to get a revision deletion on some of the diffs presented above that make unfounded statements about BLPs. ] (]) 18:55, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
# Serious assumptions of bad faith]
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
# Warning by {{user|2over0}}
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : Topic ban


====Statement by (username)====
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : The same editors, as well as possible sock puppets of the banned, are raising the same editorial debate without putting forward any reliable sources whatsoever.
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning DanielVizago===
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ''The requesting user is asked to notify the user against whom this request is directed of it, and then to replace this text with a ] of that notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise.''
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''

===Discussion concerning Solicitr===

====Statement by Solicitr====

====Comments by others about the request concerning Solicitr ====


*I've p-blocked from article space to see if we can get this editor communicating. ] (]) 12:35, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
===Result concerning Solicitr===
*I want to hear what they have to say, but I'm going to need a fairly convincing explanation as to how they're here to build an encyclopedia and not to POV-push men's rights activism content where it doesn't belong. The IDHT and spammy behavior and the BLP vios on top of that aren't super encouraging, either, but if they decide to communicate, I'm happy to reassess. ] (] • she/her) 22:56, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
Cut and dry violation of the restriction, which is one of the least ambiguous remedies ArbCom have ever come up with. All the paperwork is in order{{mdash}}they were notified of the case and counselled on how to avoid sanctions last month by 2/0. Blocked for 24 hours since it's their first block. ] &#124; ] 19:29, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
*<!--
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
-->
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->

Latest revision as of 03:37, 19 January 2025

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    Lemabeta

    Lemabeta has acknowledged the warnings here to take more care and stay well clear of articles from which they are restricted from editing. Further violations are very likely to lead to sanctions, up to and including an indefinite block. Seraphimblade 12:44, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Lemabeta

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    EF5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Lemabeta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 5 Jan 2025 - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
    2. 4 Jan 2025 - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. EF 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. EF 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Here

    Discussion concerning Lemabeta

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Lemabeta

    Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --Lemabeta (talk) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are related but distinct concepts. An ethnographic group refers to a community of people defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, cultural heritage refers to the *practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
    So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) emerges from ethnographic groups but does not define the group itself. Lemabeta (talk) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. Lemabeta (talk) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Lemabeta

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under a topic ban imposed by a consensus of AE admins from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:
      ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
      <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> voorts (talk/contributions) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" @Lemabeta: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Note that I've deleted Draft:Rachvelians as a clear G5 violation. I think Mate Albutashvili is a bit more of a questionable G5. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared ... traditions" and "shared ... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". voorts (talk/contributions) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Tamzin: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @EF5: They were "reviously given ... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Lemabeta: Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity. There's a reason we use the words "broadly construed" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?)This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • EF5, I don't understand your "Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above" statement, can you please explain what it refers to? This T-ban? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
    That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by their apology for "accidental violations". I'll AGF that they were accidental, but OTOH, they surely ought to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? Bishonen | tålk 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
    EF5, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are very different, and the block log only logs blocks. Bishonen | tålk 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
    • It seems that the general consensus here is to treat this as a final warning, and Lemabeta has acknowledged it as such. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within the next day or so, I will close as such. Seraphimblade 01:16, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

    Boy shekhar

    Blocked by Rosguill as a regular administrative action. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:57, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Boy shekhar

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Daniel Quinlan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:34, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Boy shekhar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics/India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    • This edit violates the topic ban because it is in the topic area. It's also based on an unreliable source and the section header includes a derogatory term.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    @Vanamonde93: No, I don't think you're being too harsh. I think you're right. My thinking was that if I was uninvolved, I would have blocked them under WP:CT/IPA so I sleepily submitted it here last night instead of ANI, which is what I should have done. Daniel Quinlan (talk)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Boy shekhar

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Boy shekhar

    Statement by Vanamonde

    This user hasn't edited for 4.5 years since they were TBANned, and none of their 31 edits show any ability to follow our PAGs. At the risk of sounding harsh, an extended AE discussion is a waste of time; a passing admin should indef them (I cannot, I am INVOLVED on most of the content they have edited). Vanamonde93 (talk) 23:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

    @Daniel Quinlan: Apologies if that sounded like a criticism of you, it wasn't intended as such: I'm just advocating for the first uninvolved admin who sees this to block and close. Vanamonde93 (talk) 00:14, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Result concerning Boy shekhar

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Vanamonde93's assessment is spot on, the edit in question is the kind of gross violation of WP:NPA we indef people for on the spot even when it's not a TBAN violation. Blocked as a regular admin action. Although I will say, without knowing how exactly Vanamonde93 is involved here, this is so far beyond the pale that they could have gone ahead and blocked on an "any reasonable admin" basis. signed, Rosguill 04:49, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    שלומית ליר

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning שלומית ליר

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Smallangryplanet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:24, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    שלומית ליר (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBPIA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation of how these edits violate it

    ShlomitLir (שלומית ליר) created their account back in 2014. The breakdown of their edits is as follows:

    • 2014 to 2016: no edits.
    • 2017 to 2019: 1 edit per year. None related to PIA.
    • 2022: 7 edits. Mostly in their userspace.
    • 2023: 21 edits. Again, mostly in their userspace. Made two edits in the talk page of Palestinian genocide accusation complaining about its content and calling it “blatant pro-Hamas propaganda”.
    • 2024: Started editing after a 10 month break at the end of October.
      • Made 51 edits in October and 81 edits in November (copyedits, adding links, minor edits).
      • In December, that number rose up to almost 400, including 116 in December 6 alone and 98 in December 7. Became ECR that day.
      • Immediately switched to editing in PIA, namely in the Battle of Sderot article where they changed the infobox picture with an unclear image with a dubious caption, and removed a template without providing a reason why.
      • They also edited the Use of human shields by Hamas article, adding another image with a caption not supported by the source (replaced by yet another image with a contextless caption when the previous image was removed) and WP:UNDUE content in the lead.
      • they also voted in the second AfD for Calls for the destruction of Israel despite never having interacted with that article or its previous AfD. They have barely surpassed 500 edits, but the gaming is obvious, highlighted by the sudden switch to editing in PIA.

    More importantly, there's the issue of POV pushing. I came across this article authored by them on Ynet, once again complaining about what they perceive as an anti Israeli bias on Misplaced Pages. They have also authored a report for the World Jewish Congress covering the same topic. The report can be seen in full here. I think that someone with this clear POV agenda shouldn't be near the topic.

    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Adding some additional comments on 2025-01-16: On top of POV issues, the user has a number of tweets that appear to be a clear admission of gaming, implicit canvassing, creating and sharing lists of potential "most biased articles", and clearly calling for specific edits. They've also been cited as coordinating an off-wiki coordination hub for editing Misplaced Pages. If this - combined with the tweets, the forms, the op-ed and the report to the WJC, all under this user's name (that they also use to edit Misplaced Pages - this is not outing) isn't a clear cut case of canvassing, I don't know what is. Smallangryplanet (talk) 20:00, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
    Notification diff


    Discussion concerning שלומית ליר

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by שלומית ליר

    I believe contents of this filing to be in clear policy violation and have reached out to the arbitration committee for further clarification before commenting further.שלומית ליר (talk) 14:34, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    I was given clarification from an admin regarding my concerns and will now be drafting a response. Thank you for your patience. שלומית ליר (talk) 21:19, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Thebiguglyalien

    This is the first ARBPIA report since the proposed decision was posted at ARBPIA5 and it's specifically a matter of POV pushing, responding admins should be aware of the "AE topic bans" remedy. The committee is discussing whether to implement a remedy stating that admins at AE are "empowered and encouraged to consider a topic ban" purely for biased editing. So far, the argument against is that it's redundant because AE admins are already supposed to do this. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 05:39, 12 January 2025 (UTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-03-29/Special_report

    Statement by Selfstudier

    To the extent that it is relevant, the WJC report was discussed at Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-03-29/Special report. Selfstudier (talk) 11:25, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by starship.paint (2)

    I would to like to raise this 9 December 2024 edit at Battle of Sderot, where there had been an existing unsourced paragraph (On the morning of October 7, a tour minibus...) that שלומית ליר added a reference to (archive 1 / archive 2) from the Israeli Public Broadcasting Corporation. The reference is relevant, but I believe it may not verify every detail in the Battle of Sderot paragraph (e.g. "Netivot", "Holocaust survivors"). The reference contains a short paragraph of text and a video that is 4:21 long. I can't watch the video in the reference, but I believe it is this same YouTube video that is 4:20 long which contains the same screenshot as the reference, on the same topic. Most of the video is an interview of the daughter of a dead victim who was on the bus (the daughter had been on the phone with the victim), except for 1:58 to 2:13 which appears to be a quote from the bus driver. The publisher themselves do not have too much reporting in their own voice (on the video), yet this reference was used to cite a paragraph entirely stated in Wikivoice. No attribution was made to the relative or the bus driver, or to the publisher. I can't be totally sure though, due to unfamiliarity with Hebrew. starship.paint (talk / cont) 13:53, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by xDanielx

    @Arcticocean: I don't really see how NPOV can be read as requiring edits which support both sides of a controversy. Our content policies don't impose any positive duties; they only tell us what not to do. The text of the policy doesn't support the notion that a pattern of edits could be in violation, even if no particular edit is in violation.

    In principle, such a pattern of edits could violate the UCoC policy, but I don't believe this board has ever enforced it. If it were to be enforced, I think it should be for more serious violations like the double standards that e.g. this attempted to demonstrate, rather than mere opinion-driven editing which applies to the vast majority of CTOP editors. — xDanielx /C\ 03:11, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Hemiauchenia

    This user has engaged in off-wiki canvassing regarding the IP conflict. Take the following recent tweet from the 12 January permanent archive

    For posterity in case it is deleted it contains the following remarks:

    If you can't handle the facts, just delete them Propaganda on @Misplaced Pages includes targeting Israel, demonizing it, and erasing inconvenient truths, from falsifying war outcomes to deleting Israeli inventions and attempting to erase the reality of Palestinian suicide bombers.

    Along with this is a screenshot of the current AfD Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Palestinian suicide attacks. People are of course allowed to be caustic about Misplaced Pages off-wiki, but calling out a specific AfD with highly charged rhetoric, essentially inciting canvassing seems out of line. Hemiauchenia (talk) 02:05, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

    For those concerned that this might be outing, שלומית ליר is very open about their real life identity on their userpage. See (archived). If you reveal your real identity on Misplaced Pages, your tweets about Misplaced Pages on your Twitter account connected to your real-life identity are fair game to mention. There's also reverse confirmation in this tweet . Hemiauchenia (talk) 02:46, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Cdjp1

    As we seem to be ok to pull evidence from the statements of the editor in question, they have also commented more recently about running interference on Misplaced Pages (archive) in response to a question of if Misplaced Pages can be "saved". -- Cdjp1 (talk) 23:22, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Sean.hoyland

    It has been several days. Perhaps שלומית ליר could clarify whether their belief about the way Misplaced Pages works turned out to be a true belief or a false belief so that this report can progress. Sean.hoyland (talk) 09:07, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning שלומית ליר

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Users are allowed to have a POV - it's a rare user indeed who edits a contentious topic without having some strong opinions about it. For conduct to be actionable at AE it needs to be an actual policy violation. The misleading use of images doesn't rise to the level of AE action in my view, and judging whether an addition like this is UNDUE is not within AE's purview, as long as it is supported by the source. Vanamonde93 (talk) 23:22, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
      The PIA5 remedy hasn't passed yet, and its interpretation is as yet unclear to me: but in my view we are already empowered to deal with biased editing, in the sense of editing that violates NPOV. What I'm not willing to do is sanction on the basis of someone's opinions alone; they have to be shown to have let their opinions get in the way of following our PAGs. Vanamonde93 (talk) 07:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
      I see some evidence - based on Arcticocean's digging below - that שלומית ליר is using images without sufficient care, but I don't see that rising to the level of a sanction. As to the rest, xDanielx is correct - nowhere do our policies require treating both sides of a conflict equally - indeed our PAGs discourage false balance. Those diffs could be actionable if they individually or collectively violate policy, but I have yet to see evidence of that. Vanamonde93 (talk) 03:22, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
      The off-wiki canvassing is a problem. It merits a warning at least, I don't know if the formality thereof matters. If there was evidence that שלומית ליר was aware of WP:CANVAS I would consider something more stringent. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:39, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
    • While I understand Vanamonde93's concerns, I think that we are required to assess the totality of the user's contributions. Contentious topic editors are required to uphold NPOV. Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics#Guidance for editors places an obligation to Within contentious topics,… edit carefully and constructively… and… adhere to the purposes of Misplaced Pages. The linked page provides that Misplaced Pages is written from a neutral point of view… We strive for articles with an impartial tone that document and explain major points of view, giving due weight for their prominence. If an editor is only adding content that significantly favours one or the other side to the conflict, this is incompatible with their contentious topic obligation. That is because an editor making only one-sided edits will simply not be taking the necessary steps to ensure that the whole article is written from a neutral point of view. As their number of one-sided edits increases, the likelihood decreases that the editor is ensuring our content is neutral and impartial. Once we reach the point of being sure that they are not attempting to ensure neutrality of content, we can conclude the editor is not meeting their contentious topics obligations and we can issue a sanction. This can only be assessed with hindsight and by looking at the editor's contributions as a whole. arcticocean ■ 20:21, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    Assessing the topic area contributions of the respondent (שלומית ליר) since they became extended-confirmed at 17:33, 8 December 2024, there is cause for concern. I counted 19 edits to the area conflict. Taken together, they significantly skew the articles negatively against the opposing side of the conflict:
    Assessing the edits as a whole, it is difficult not to conclude that the respondent user is failing to meet their contentious topics obligation to edit neutrally in this topic area. As the number of edits is so far limited, if a sanction is imposed, it could justifiably be light-touch. arcticocean ■ 20:34, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    @XDanielx: Thanks for commenting. Most of the edits do not have a neutral, encyclopedic POV. There is an effort to influence our articles away from neutrally describing the subject without taking sides, contrary to WP:NPOV. Even if each edit in isolation is insufficient for sanctioning, taken as a whole the edits show an inability or unwillingness to edit neutrally. One non-neutral edit shouldn't be sanctioned; twenty is a different story. This is not about the percentage of biased edits but about the weight or amount of them. Therefore, the assessment wouldn't really change even had the editor made some 'neutral' edits along the way. I'm happy to concede that editors cannot be compelled to balance edits of one bias with edits of another, but I don't think that comes into it. In a nutshell, this is about Misplaced Pages:Advocacy. arcticocean ■ 08:40, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    Luganchanka

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Luganchanka

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Hemiauchenia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Luganchanka (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Editing of Biographies of Living Persons
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 19:55, 12 January 2025 Reversion to version of article where the article says "He is a child sex offender" in the second sentence despite consensus at BLPN discussion that this is problematic because Ritter never actually interacted with a real child.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

    18:28, 12 January 2025 BLP CTOP warning given

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    At BLPN, there has been consensus that the version of the article describing Ritter as a "child sex offender" in the second sentence of the article is problematic, as he did not actually have sexual contact with a child, only a police officer impersonating one. Misplaced Pages:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Scott_Ritter_Biography_-_Noncompliance_with_MOS_and_BLP_Guidelines. Luganchanka has been persistently edit warring against this apparent consensus. For which he has been warned by @NatGertler: , which he subequently blanked There has been persistent objection to descrbing Ritter as a "child sex offender" in the opening sentences of the article going back to at least August Talk:Scott_Ritter#First_sentence, but Luganchanka persistently cites a "consensus" for its inclusion that as far as I can tell does not seem to exist, with Luganchanka aggressively editing to enforce its inclusion. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:26, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Luganchanka's response is disingenuous and misleading. Look at the Talk:Scott_Ritter#First_sentence discussion I linked above. Nobody other than Luganchanka thinks that Ritter should be described as a "child sex offender" in the opening sentences of the article. The dispute isn't about whether or not the convictions should be mentioned in the lead at all or not, it's specifically about the use of the phrase "child sex offender", and there is no consensus to include that as far as I can tell, despite Luganchanka's vociferous claims to the contrary. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:47, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    RfC opened Talk:Scott_Ritter#RfC:_Ritter's_sexual_sex_offenses_convictions. Hemiauchenia (talk) 16:01, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    20:27, 12 January 2025

    Discussion concerning Luganchanka

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Luganchanka

    The intro on the Scott Ritter page had remained largely the same for several months, as you will see on the talkpage it is an intro approved, and reverted to, by multiple senior editors. There has been a recent flurry of activity / edits. While I WP: assume good faith, it does look like those edits are attempting to downplay / whitewash Ritter's sexual offence conviction(s). I have not been 'aggressive' at all, rather I have simply referred contentious edits to the talkpage to build consensus, attempting to do my duty as a good Misplaced Pages editor.Luganchanka (talk) 20:40, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Please see the Talk:Scott_Ritter, where there has been a clear consensus reached, on more than one occasion, and by senior wikipedia editors, that Ritter's sexual offence conviction should be included in the lead to the article. My edits have simply been aimed at ensuring this consensus reached is maintained in the article.Luganchanka (talk) 20:44, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Thank you to @Valereee and @Red-tailed hawk for your feedback. If you see the Talk:Scott_Ritter, discussions - 14 August - Vandalism by removing all reference entirely to Ritter being a "Convicted Sex Offender" and First sentence. The latter discussion ended on 26th September, and resulted in the intro we had until a flurry of edits the other day, trying to move information on Ritter's sexual offence conviction, downplay it, whitewash it etc. My edits were aimed at restoring the edit reached by consensus, which had been in place for several months until the recent raft of edits with the clear aim of moving / downplaying Ritter's sexual offence conviction.Luganchanka (talk) 06:39, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
    Thank you for this (nest), I really do appreciate your feedback and advice here!!Luganchanka (talk) 16:30, 16 January 2025 (UTC) (moved from admin-only sectionRed-tailed hawk (nest) 17:34, 16 January 2025 (UTC))
    As per Rosguill's comments:

    "Unfazed by "Emily's" age, Ritter asked "Emily," "you want to see it finish?" Ritter then turned on the webcam and ejaculated in front of the camera for "Emily." Detective Venneman then notified Ritter of his undercover status and the undercover operation and directed Ritter to call the police station."

    https://casetext.com/case/ritter-v-tuttle

    Luganchanka (talk) 18:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by NatGertler

    Editor's edits today focused on trying to main a negative descriptor of what subject believed, despite it not being in the three sources that were listed (nor in the old version they ultimately reverted to.) Efforts were first trying to simply restate the claim, then trying to source it to an opinion piece (problem) from the Washington Examiner (also a bit of a problem, per WP:RSP), then trying to state as a fact what had merely been stated in a non-prime article as an accusation. BLP concern was pointed out repeatedly via edit summary and on Talk page. Removal of unsourced contentious BLP claims and even false claims is not "whitewashing" despite how editor wishes to depict it, it is in accord with our practices. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 21:08, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Luganchanka

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    @Luganchanka: whether you're correct or not, you were edit warring. I believe an indef block from the article and/or a temporary site block would be an appropriate sanction here. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:54, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    I've blocked the user for 48h for violating 3RR based on the report at WP:AN3.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Luganchanka, edit-warring to remove negative content at a BLP is an exemption to 3RR. I see that NatGertler mentioned this in their edit summaries and at talk. As voorts points out, it doesn't matter whether you're right when you're reverting an edit that is being claimed as an exemption, even if you believe Rosguillwhiyou are "ensuring this consensus reached is maintained in the article". The solution is to go to talk, discuss, and get consensus. If you'd like to respond, ping me to your response at your talk and I'll post it here. Valereee (talk) 16:04, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Luganchanka, if you really believe those two sections -- senior editors, indeed, this one was between someone with 13 edits and somcoen who wasn't ECR, for heaven's sake -- somehow prove consensus was strong, and you think that means you can ignore all the later ones -- at one of which you didn't even respond to a ping, where people were objecting -- then this is maybe looking like a WP:CIR issue.
      But even if you had been somehow editing to support a consensus you believed was settled, you cannot edit-war contentious material into a BLP when others are objecting to it. The solution, always, is to go to talk, discuss, and reconfirm consensus. There is zero urgency to have this information in the article. Including something negative in a BLP is not something you should ever edit war over. Valereee (talk) 18:14, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Luganchanka's reading of the state of consensus on the talk page as supporting their edits is so far off base that it borders on being a CIR issue if it's sincere. Indef block from Scott Ritter seems appropriate. signed, Rosguill 22:49, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
      I see RTH's point about the "First sentence" section in isolation. I'd note that the link to WP:FORUMSHOP isn't really appropriate here, as bringing the discussion to BLP/N was an appropriate action (if it was then brought to NPOVN, NORN, etc., that would be forumshopping). I'd like to see some actual contrition around the edit warring and frivolous accusations of whitewash before writing this off as time-served. signed, Rosguill 15:49, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      That's fair; I'll strike the link. My point in including it was that, when conversations fragment, we sometimes get these sorts of chaotic incidents. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 15:54, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      Understood, I think that meaning was clear for us here in the admin section, but I could easily see a new editor misinterpreting it unintentionally. signed, Rosguill 15:57, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      I am not at all comforted by the fact that Luganchanka has proceeded to make Special:Diff/1269831044. The cited BBC source does not state masturbated and ejaculated on camera, saying only graphic sex act. As written, this is essentially another BLP violation, building a case that a ban from this topic is needed. signed, Rosguill 16:53, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      Having reviewed the other sources, reliable sources do confirm the masturbation claim (, ) but not ejaculation, which appears to be supported only by New York Post, a generally unreliable source. Luganchanka, in light of this clarification, can you please address your decision to include the claims as you initially wrote them? signed, Rosguill 17:02, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      The detail is in the record of Ritter v. Tuttle (case No. 3:15cv1235 (M.D. Pa. Dec. 14, 2018)), so it isn't completely made up. But I would also like to hear from the user on this point as to whether there was secondary sourcing here. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 17:32, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      Seeing Special:Diff/1269853673 here and Special:Diff/1269853955, Special:Diff/1269845272 at Talk:Scott Ritter, I see no comprehension of the use of primary vs. secondary sources, nor any reflection of their past errors in engaging with this topic. I believe that a block from the page is needed to prevent further BLP violations as they have shown no understanding of the relevant policies even after being given several warnings, reminders and opportunities to revise their position. signed, Rosguill 18:47, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Luganchanka:
      WP:BLPPRIMARY calls upon users to not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person. There are some narrow exceptions (when primary-source material has been discussed by a reliable secondary source, it may be acceptable to rely on it to augment the secondary source), but adding material to the article not found in reliable secondary sources is... suboptimal at best under our biographies of living persons policy.
      Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:27, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Luganchanka: Would you please provide a direct link to the talk page section you are referring to when you say there has been a clear consensus reached, on more than one occasion, and by senior wikipedia editors regarding the lead? — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 01:57, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Luganchanka and Hemiauchenia:
      It does seem that the discussion at Talk:Scott Ritter#First sentence does indicate some support for that language i.e. (convicted child sex offender) in the lead, with some general lean against putting it in the first sentence. So, while There has been persistent objection to descrbing Ritter as a "child sex offender" in the opening sentences is true if it means the literal first sentence, I do see a rough consensus to include the material in the lead section in some way in that discussion.
      That being said, the BLPN discussion had a bit of different tone and tenor from the discussion on the talk page. There was notification about a BLPN discussion on the article's talk page, but Luganchanka, despite having been pretty vocal about this subject in the past, hadn't participated in that BLPN discussion. They instead grounded their edits in the argument that the article's talk page had consensus for the current content, and nothing on the article's talk page had changed that consensus. And that much was true. In any case, we've got two different forums with two different answerstwo different forums with two different answers here, which appears to be what's leading to the whole kerfluffle.
      Then the analysis comes to whether or not the label is a straightforward BLP violation, requiring us to read the sourcing in the article. This NY Times piece, which is cited in the body of the article (but not the lead), does state that Ritter was convicted unlawful contact with minors and other charges in the state of PA (the PA statute is here; "unlawful contact with minors" is the verbatim name of the crime). When dealing with a sting operation, PA treats it as an offense of the same grade and degree as if the criminal had actually contacted a child (unless it's a lesser crime than a third-degree felony, in which case it becomes a third-degree felony). This is an extremely common practice in the United States (there are lots of philosophical questions regarding mens rea and actus reus here, but that's not really relevant here). In any case, labeling this to be a child sex offense (or, alternatively, to simply use the name of the crime in the article) does not appear to be straightforward malice/POV-pushing/libel, and a reasonably informed individual might shorten it in this way. Whether or not that is wise or optimal to shorten it is the proper subject for content discussion.
      Aside from the edit warring (which was not acceptable, and was aptly handled by a block), this looks like a content dispute. A heated one involving a living person, sure, but a content dispute nonetheless. I see good-faith—albeit passionate—disagreement. If the editors were to come together and engage in one forum (such as the article's talk page, where this has been discussed a bunch), rather than splitting the discussion over multiple pages, I feel like we might have our best shot at attaining a consensus going forward.
      In short, it looks like the conversation fragmented, and consensus-building broke down. Edit warring ensued, which was bad, but we've already blocked for that in order to dissuade it going forward. A Request for Comment on the article's talk page for what the lead should look like is probably the best way to go forward here.
      Red-tailed hawk (nest) 15:27, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
      RTH, are you objecting to a p-block from the article? Valereee (talk) 13:35, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Luganchanka has been blocked for a week by User:ScottishFinnishRadish for BLP violations and personal attacks. Liz 18:38, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
      Just noting that this was a regular admin action and I wasn't aware this was before AE. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:42, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
      With this in mind, I think we should wait to hear from RTH but otherwise expect to move forward to an indef p-block on top of SFR's stopgap action, as we haven't seen anything coming close to an adequate recognition of the relevant policies and practices from Luganchanka and after several second chances and nudges, I don't see reason to expect them to change course. signed, Rosguill 18:54, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

    BabbleOnto

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning BabbleOnto

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    ජපස (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:34, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    BabbleOnto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/COVID-19#Contentious_topic_designation
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 11 January 2025 Sealioning
    2. 11 January 2025 Refusal to get the message
    3. 11 January 2025 Personalizing an argument.
    4. 11 January 2025 Railroading the discussion.

    This is all after I warned them about WP:AE sanctions, and they dismissed my warning out of hand. Very nearly a WP:SPA on the subject. I see no reason to continue tolerating this kind of obstinate tendetiousness. Additional diffs available on request from admins, but looking at the user history should suffice to indicate the problem is obvious, I hope.

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 9 Dec 2024 (see the system log linked to above).
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    This is a WP:SPA with respect to the topic and their disruption surrounding it has been subject to at least one WP:FTN thread that remains active: Misplaced Pages:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#Gain_of_function_research. The hope was that they would WP:DROPTHESTICK and move on from this, but it seems they either will not or cannot. jps (talk) 17:34, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    diff

    Discussion concerning BabbleOnto

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by BabbleOnto

    I would first like to begin by point out the person filing this complaint is involved in the content disputes at issue. They have frequently left "warnings" which read more like threats on my talk page and others' talk pages for people who disagree with them. Nor would I be the first person who would they would get banned from this topic for disagreeing with them.

    To be honest I'm not entirely sure what it is I'm being charged with doing.

    I think in general the user is alleging I've been uncivil, unhelpful, and, in their words, obstinate and tendentious. I know when someone disagrees with you it may feel like they're getting in your way and acting in bad-faith, but that's not always true. I've never tried to be disruptive or uncivil. I've admitted when I was wrong, I've dropped arguments that were clarified to be wrong, I've tried to find compromise, at times begging people to provide their sources and work together. And when those editors refused to, I didn't provoke any further.

    I now address the specific edits in the complaint:

    1. I don't see how this is sea-lioning. The user misquoted the article. I pointed out the misquotation, then addressed a accusation against me that I was second-guessing the sources (A claim which was never substantiated). I then said any source would have to support that actual claim which was in the article. I don't know what this violates.

    2. I don't see how this is refusing to get the message (IDHT). The other party is making direct claims alleging I said something. I did not say it. I replied with what I actually said. What part of that interaction is saying "I didn't hear that?"

    3. Admittedly probably the strongest of the four allegations. I'm not pretending I was perfect in all of my comments. I should have kept my criticism strictly to their argument. I ask you to read it in context and keep in mind you're viewing a hand-picked assortment of my worst edits, and this is the worst they could find. Also consider that conversation accused me of having a basic reading comprehension problem, perhaps you can see I lose my cool sometimes too.

    4. I'm not even really sure what "railroading the discussion" means. Thus, to keep this section short and to save words, I don't know what I'm being accused of doing wrong here.

    All of this has stemmed out of arguments over two sources. I have tried to find compromise, I have tried to negotiate, I have tried to build consensus. I've been going through the proper channels, I've been participating in the RfC, I've been discussing it on the ANI, I source every claim I make, for a month now I've been trying to constructively explain my side and defend my argument against challenges. It's incredibly frustrating to now be facing an Arbitration Enforcement on grounds that I'm not working with others. BabbleOnto (talk) 23:54, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by ProcrastinatingReader

    I've interacted with BabbleOnto in several threads. There's a few problems, but ultimately, I think they have a certain opinion on what the article should say, and will debate endlessly to get the article changed to their position. I mean, sure, reasonable people disagree on how to interpret sources and apply policy, but I don't think BabbleOnto is actually interested in faithful application of policies to write high quality articles based on good sources.

    That's not terribly problematic by itself, but most discussions with BabbleOnto are exhausting. Rather than actually trying to understand someone's argument in good faith, I think BabbleOnto replies to editors by picking out parts of an argument, interpreting it in the most disfavourable way possible, and making a superficially reasonable response ad nauseam. They reply endlessly in this manner. As well as misrepresentation of opponents' arguments, on multiple occassions BabbleOnto has either misrepresented sources or hasn't read their own sources. I can't think of a single thread where BabbleOnto didn't have the last word, or a single thread where it seemed like BabbleOnto was actually trying to understand the arguments of other editors in a charitable way. As such, I think it's very difficult to work collaborately with BabbleOnto on the lab leak theory and related articles. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 21:07, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Newimpartial

    As the editor to whom BabbleOnto was responding in the diffs of the filing, I feel compelled to comment now that they have defended (to varying degrees) their first three diffs. I will reply as briefly as I know how to their defense of the diffs, as revised.

    1. BabbleOnto is now doubling down on the claim that I misquoted the article. I didn't "misquote" the article - I didn't quote the article, and I explained what my comment meant in the rest of the (now collapsed) thread that ends here. Also, I provided a clear explanation of why I thought they were second-guessing sources later in the thread, but BabbleOnto never responded to that explanation. They are now responding to the accusation of WP:CPUSH with pure WP:IDONTHEARTHAT.

    2. On this they say, now, that The other party is making direct claims alleging I said something. I did not say it. This is repeating a misreading they made in the original thread, where they mistook a statement I made about another editor's comment as if it were about theirs. In this "defense", I see no attempt to read thoughtfully what other editors say in reply to them and revise their understanding accordingly; all I see is zero-sum mentality and WP:IDHT.

    3. BabbleOnto is now justifying an edit where they said to me, You have a habit of inserting small lies into everything you say and You're not adding anything constructive. You're just refusing to explain anything and saying conclusory statements, or lying about what you said - all this based on a misreading of what I had actually written - because I was going to refer to a basic failure in reading comprehension two hours later. This seems like a time travel paradox.

    4. They don't bother defending themselves on this one, but just to point out the actual issue with the diff, they doubled down on their accusations that I said a material lie, and that I lied when said that quoted the article out of context. Pointing out being caught lying and then proceeded to STRAWMAN the rest of my comment to which they were replying. If they had read my prior comment with a reasonable level of attention, they would have understood that there were no "lies", just a misunderstanding or two in each direction. But WP:IDHT again; even in responding to this filing BabbleOnto is still insisting I did things that I quite obviously didn't do.

    It is exhausting to deal with this kind of quasi-CPUSH (not quite civil, but certainly push) behaviour. The Talk page in question has seen a recent influx of single-purpose or nearly single-purpose POV accounts, and in terms of editor energy, this one certainly seems not to be a net positive for Misplaced Pages as a project. Perhaps if they edited away from Covid and US politics, their track record might improve. Newimpartial (talk) 03:33, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Objective3000

    Just a quick aside to Valereee's aside: Contentious topics are a terrible place to learn.... Talk:COVID-19 lab leak theory currently has posts from 19 editors lacking the edits for extended confirmed. O3000, Ret. (talk) 20:38, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    @Valereee, this is also a problem at other CTOPs, and is likely to become more problematic. I assume due to off-Wiki forums. ECR might just produce more users gaming EC. I thought it would be useful to put your aside into the CTOP template at the top of CTOP TPs. But that assumes folks read it. Walt Kelly said something along the lines of: “If only I could write, I’d write a letter to the mayor, if only he could read." This discussion is likely better off elsewhere. O3000, Ret. (talk) 21:38, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    Note: IntrepidContributor was just TBanned from the topic of COVID-19 and indef blocked until the accusations of off-wiki coordination made by them at ANI are retracted. Those accusations are like their suggestion made in their statement in this filing. O3000, Ret. (talk) 12:11, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by JoelleJay

    At the very least, can we get more admin involvement on the lab leak page so trolling like this doesn't disrupt things even more? JoelleJay (talk) 07:12, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by IntrepidContributor

    I have been observing BabbleOnto and while there are valid concerns about bludgeoning, I think the proposed sanctions are too much. His engagement in the Covid lab leak topic is driven by commitment to WP:NPOV, which our articles fail to adhere to, and he made the mistake of arguing with editors who were never going to listen (resulting in what looks like sealioning on his part). He's not only editor to raise issues in the topic and engage in good faith discussion, only to find themselves pulled to AN or AE disputes after staying out of the seasoning traps and refusing to capitulate to threats. In a parallel AN case concerning another editor in same topic, I suggest there may be possible off-wiki coordination , but it can also be on-wiki ().

    One need only cross-reference names from Feb 2021 RfC, checking those that voted for labeling COVID-19 lab leak as conspiracy, with the names of complainants here. Contrast all these old timers with the steady stream of tens if not hundreds of regular editors complaining that our article fails NPOV, and see that their gentle approach doesn't work . Our chief complainant is already preparing his next case , and this might not be his first.

    I suggest that administrators consider a 1 to 2 month topic ban for BabbleOnto to provide opportunity for him to correct his approach, while staying alert to the tactics of POV editors trying to draw them into content debates to influence outcomes.

    IntrepidContributor (talk) 14:46, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by TarnishedPath

    Please see this edit where BabbleOnto edited Gain of function research restoring previously reverted content and WP:POVPUSH using a shit source after they'd been told by multiple other editors in discussions here and here that the source was shit. Notably in the edit summary they wrote "Read discussion page. Manual revert. No serious challenge has been made to these changes. Methinks an admin needs to get involved..." despite them being in a WP:1AM situation. If a clue is not gotten by the editor fast I'd suggest TBANs from both COVID and AP2 is warranted in order to cease their disruption. TarnishedPath 04:25, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

    Noting the editor's continued behaviour at Talk:Gain-of-function research. Refer to Special:Diff/1270316266. TarnishedPath 01:53, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
    and again at Special:Diff/1270346091 TarnishedPath 03:01, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by berchanhimez

    This user was given no less than 4 chances on the talk page to stop talking about bans/other editors and start talking about the content. They have continued crying about how they're scared of getting banned... yet they continue blabbing about other editors getting banned for their bad behavior rather than refocusing on the content as requested. At a minimum a partial block from the talk page(s) in question is warranted, and it would be beneficial for a topic ban from the origins of COVID-19, broadly construed. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 03:37, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

    Result concerning BabbleOnto

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • BabbleOnto, please edit your statement down further to fit within the restriction. This also serves as an opportunity to rephrase your defense, which currently is not convincing at first glance. ProcrastinatingReader's description of the situation seems quite apt, particularly BabbleOnto replies to editors by picking out parts of an argument, interpreting it in the most disfavourable way possible, which is currently a pretty fitting description of your response to them here, given that you zeroed in on the "superficially reasonable" part and ignored the much more serious parts of the testimony. signed, Rosguill 23:37, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
      Ok, having read through nearly every edit that BabbleOnto has made, I agree with the complainants that not only does BabbleOnto engage in sealioning, it appears to be almost exclusively what they do. The discussion at Talk:Brian Thompson (businessman)/Archive 2 exhibits perhaps even more concerning argumentation than the diffs provided in the initial report. Throughout these discussions, BabbleOnto tends to demand a standard of stating the obvious (with respect to the context of said sources) that is absurd, and continues to lawyer for such standards even when the situation becomes WP:1AM. When criticizing sources' ability to account for basic claims, I can find no examples of BabbleOnto themselves attempting to find sources that would resolve the issues they identify--this is uncollaborative behavior. There is a clear pattern of engaging in this behavior across recent US politics topics consistent with the scope of Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics/American politics. The only saving grace to BabbleOnto's track record is that none of this has translated into disruptive editing of actual articles, just unproductive engagement on talk pages. I am currently in favor of a topic ban from post-1992 American politics; if they are actually here to build an encyclopedia and not to provide a punching bag for debate club, they can use this opportunity to learn more constructive patterns of editing in topics that they are less personally invested in. signed, Rosguill 01:26, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
      Valereee in line with their follow-up response, I take Objective3000's comments as potentially a basis for community discussion rather than a call for protective action on the lab leak talk page right now. signed, Rosguill 21:47, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I have to agree, this looks like sealioning. BabbleOnto, you're new here, and I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt about your ability to learn to collaborate. WP works on collaboration and consensus, and sometimes consensus goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. You have to be willing to shrug, walk away, and go work on something else when consensus is against you. And you absolutely must not insist everyone else keep answering you until you're satisfied with their answers. I've seen editors at both the Thompson and the lab leak talks tell you they don't actually owe you an answer to your satisfaction.
    Do you think you can learn to do that? Because if you don't think you can, this may not be the right hobby for you.
    As an aside, I'm going to recommend what I always recommend to new editors who end up here: Contentious topics are a terrible place to learn. Go edit in noncontentious topics, where other editors are a lot less exhausted and have the energy to be more patient with new editors. Valereee (talk) 18:27, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    @Objective3000, hm, yes, and Talk:COVID-19 lab leak theory also has 37 archives, and even with archiving at 21 days, 20 sections. Do you think an ECR is something that talk page needs? That's not part of the authorized restrictions an individual admin can place...hm, and I'm not sure of the policy w/re most efficiently getting that done and wasting the fewest people's time. @Rosguill? Valereee (talk) 21:08, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    I would object to ECPing the talk page. COVID-19 isn't subject to ARBECR generally, though this specific article is protected. The purpose of protecting the page (in this case) is to push newer users to the talk page, where they can discuss changes they want made (such as by edit requests) and contribute towards consensus-building while not edit warring. Protecting talk pages is truly, truly a last resort. Ordinary good faith people would be entirely shut out and silenced—we'd not even get edit requests—and I frankly don't see anything near the level of disruption/LTA abuse that would justify jumping straight to WP:ECP. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 01:55, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
    @Red-tailed hawk, not ECP. ECR: non-EC are restricted from anything but making edit requests. Valereee (talk) 14:48, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
    I see. In any case, ECR is the sort of remedy that should be reserved for more or less when all else fails—it’s still super restrictive. If new users/inexperienced users are trying to contribute towards consensus-building on the talk page (or even if they’re doing ordinary confused new editor things), and aren’t edit warring, I don’t think we’d actually be preventing disruptive edits by enforcing ECR.
    Suppose someone in good-faith sees “anyone can edit”, and they want to edit something topical. But then they see that the page that they want to edit is protected. They read the explanation that appears after clicking the “view source” tab. They then read that they can discuss this page with others, click on the first blue link, and then make a section using the “add topic” button in order to start a discussion.
    “OK”, the newbie thinks, “maybe I will find someone else who agrees with me, or I’ll at least get some answer as to why the article is this way”. They leave their computer and come back in an hour. They then discover that their question has been removed by some random editor with edit summary “WP:ARBECR violation, user not WP:XC; malformed edit request” and find a contentious topics notice on their own user talk page, all because they don’t make a properly formatted edit request (i.e. “please change X to Y”). Or maybe they wont navigate the talk page history and they’ll angrily post that their earlier comment was deleted. Or maybe they just won’t come back. To top it off, nothing at any point in this process was obvious to them that such a requirement existed—there is no edit notice that says so, and so they couldn’t know.
    WP:ECR is WP:BITEy. It dissuades new voices from joining conversations, and it makes it somewhat hostile to true newbies. In particular, it dissuades people who, for example:
    1. Are Not hardcore/insane enough to deal with intense wiki-bureaucracy;
    2. Are unable to cope with handling unfamiliar wikitext markup when making edit requests for anything that is not a trivial word change, or who have abstract changes in mind more than concrete ones;
    3. Do not want to spend an hour of their time to figure out how to say the magic words to summon another editor to fix a typo.
    The chief way that ECR works is by making LTAs/sockmasters have to put on a lot of effort or make a lot of edits. This raises the (time) cost of socking, and it has the benefit of possibly exposing tells along the way. But that also means that we’re imposing the same thing on good-faith newbies.
    When deciding whether or not to impose ECR, we have to balance that it is extremely BITEy to good-faith newbies against its ability to prevent disruption. There are times where we are basically left to throw our hands up because of LTA/sockmaster abuse, and conclude that the tradeoff is worth it; the ArbCom has done this for certain contentious topics. But, the ArbCom had the wisdom to not enable ECR as a page sanction across all contentious topic areas—there is a very real tradeoff that needs to be really carefully considered. And I don’t the tradeoff leans towards embracing ECR here. — Red-tailed sock (Red-tailed hawk's nest) 15:48, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
    I'm don't think we need to have this discussion here and now, but I don't disagree it's bitey and needs to be used only where necessary. I was just asking the question of someone who is working at that article: is this an article talk where it's necessary? Valereee (talk) 17:45, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

    Marlarkey

    Marlarkey p-blocked from Declaration of war and formally warned to be more mindful of policies, guidelines and best practices when editing CTOPs, particularly PIA signed, Rosguill 19:54, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Marlarkey

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    WeatherWriter (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Marlarkey (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBPIA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    1. 19 August 2024 - Mainspace PIA edit prior to EC status.
    2. 19 August 2024 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request and acknowledgement of aforementioned edit.
    3. 19 August 2024 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request.
    4. 21 November 2024 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request. Accused another editor of vandalism.
    5. 21 November 2024 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request. Says, "I don't give a stuff about what you or Israel say about the declaration."
    6. 21 November 2024 - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status. Accused editor of "vandalism" in edit summary.
    7. 21 November 2024 - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status. Accused editor of "vandalism" in edit summary.

    1. 13 January 2025 - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status.
    2. 13 January 2025 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request.
    3. 13 January 2025 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Not an edit request..."Someone has reverted my removal of Israel - Hamas *AGAIN* so I've taken it out *AGAIN*."
    4. 13 January 2025 - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status.
    5. 13 January 2025 - Self-revert of direct previous mainspace reversion that was prior to EC status.
    6. 13 January 2024 - Direct mainspace reversion prior to EC status...Made while this enforcement request was being typed up. This reversion by Marlarkey is of an edit with the direct edit summary of "Per WP:ARBPIA". User is 100% disregarding CT requirements.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    N/A. No previous blocks or topic bans.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    at 15:29, 21 November 2024.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    User has been on Misplaced Pages (on and off) since at least January 2010. It seems there is a WP:CIR-related issue on ArbCom PIA/Contentious topics, given the very clear lack of ignorance of the ArbCom Notification and subsequent edit summary arguments. I do not necessarily believe a block will be of use in this case, due to this editor's on-and-off Misplaced Pages editing status (less than 500 edits since January 2010). Either a topic ban and/or a 1,000 EC status requirement (i.e. EC-status requirement is something higher than 500 edits) is being requested. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:36, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

    • @Marlarkey: I want to keep assuming good faith, so I wanted to let you know that WP:ARBPIA is what we call "broadly constructed". If you read WP:PIA, it says, "These are the current arbitration remedies applicable to any pages and edits that could be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict." The edit you are attempting to me is related to the Arab-Israel conflict. The page itself does not have to be entirely about the war to be covered under the restrictions. Any edit that is at least, even slightly related to the conflict is covered under the restrictions. While the page is about declarations of war throughout history, the specific edit is related to whether the Israel-Hamas war was a declaration of war. That is obviously related to the conflict, given it specifically is in regard to the Israel-Hamas war. That is why the edits were reverted and why this violation report was filed. Hopefully that makes sense. Also, just a quick side-note, accusing other editors of vandalism is assuming bad faith and is not really how Misplaced Pages operates. You should always be assuming the other editors intents with good faith. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:50, 13 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Marlarkey: We are all working together to create a better encyclopedia. No one is against you and we do wish for all to edit Misplaced Pages. The ArbCom restrictions require that you have (1) at least an account of 30 days old and (2) at least 500 edits, to be able to edit content anywhere on Misplaced Pages regarding the Israel-Hamas war. At the time of all the edits linked above, you did not have 500 edits on Misplaced Pages. You were roughly at 490. At the time of this, you now have over 500 edits, which means you could now edit content regarding the Israel-Hamas war. That said, this report was made because of the several edits you made prior to reaching the 500 edit requirement.
    Please understand this is for the edits that you made which were in clear violation of the policy, which requires you to have 500 edits prior to editing anything even remotely related to the conflict. This report was not that you are incorrect with your removal of the content. Not at all. This report is because you removed the content before you were allowed to (i.e. the 500-edit mark). Please understand we all are on the same-side here and no one is vandalizing anything. Once this is resolved, I would be more than happy to calmly discuss the content changes with you. I hope you can understand that this report is specifically because you made the changes before you were allowed to and not at all regarding the content in those changes. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 00:52, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Rosguill: After my last reply, I realized I went 105 words over the 500-word limit. I would like to request that 105-word extension (so I do not have to reword or remove the last reply I made). I do not plan to reply again as I think everything I needed to say and link to has been said and linked to. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 00:56, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Marlarkey

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Marlarkey

    WeatherWriter (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is repeatedly reverting edits which are removing information outside the scope of the page in question. My edits are validly citated within the scope of the page. WeatherWriter (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has cited WP:ARBPIA but that is not relevant to THIS article which is not a Palestine-Israel article. This article is not a contentious topic - it is factual.

    My edits are WP:NPOV. This article is about declarations of war - the opening statement states "A declaration of war is a formal act by which one state announces existing or impending war activity against another." 1. Hamas is not a nation state - So Israel vs Hamas should not be included in the article 2. Hezbollah is not a nation state - So Israel vs Hezbollah should not be included in the article 3. Russia vs Ukraine are both nation states - the question then is whether there has been a declaration of war.

    In the case 1 & 2, the removal of these two entries is WP:NPOV and the inclusion or otherwise in this article is in no way a comment on the conflict in question - only whether they constitute a declaration of war by one nation state on another. Which they do not because they are nation states.

    In the case of 3, the inclusion of Russia vs Ukraine only relies on whether there has been a declaration of war. The citation I gave is documented evidence of Russia announcing that a state of war exists between Russia and Ukraine.

    I suggest that by taking the action they have that the complainant is the one acting in a that asserts a political opinion about the conflict


    The reference by Weatherwriter to 21 November 2024 - Talk page PIA edit prior to EC status. Is only a partial quote - what I actually said was "I don't give a stuff about what you or Israel say about the declaration. I care about whether it is in the scope of this page." The key is the final point - the scope of this article and whether the edits are validly cited in accordance with the topic of the article...namely a list of declarations of war.

    Weatherwriter reversions of my edits serve to support a political opinion on a page which is about facts.

    I'm pretty angry about being accused in this way when MY edits were factually based and neutral point of view, whereas by reverting my edits it does precisely the opposite, allowing contentious and politically biased information to infect the page. GRRRRRRrrr

    Marlarkey (talk) 23:57, 13 January 2025 (UTC)


    On another point, following me reviewing the information in this complaint by WeatherWriter... "If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)" The complainant cites a link to information which I have JUST accessed and have never seen before just now. I was NOT aware of this information so it is false to suggest that this constitutes evidence that I was aware.

    Again this makes me angry at the accusations being made against me. If you don't want people editing and contributing to wikipedia then please just say so. GRRR Marlarkey (talk) 00:35, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    • I give up... I'm being accused and being told off for responding to the accusation. I don't know anything about this procedure, have never seen this page before and know nothing about how this works because its new to me.
      But I get it - I'm not part of the club that decides things... so I'll let you get on with that. Marlarkey (talk) 00:47, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    (Moved from WeatherWriter's section I get it - you'd rather call me out by this procedure than have an accurate encyclopaedia article. You've made accusations against me and put me through this over restrictions that I knew nothing about and policies I knew nothing about. I simply came across something inaccurate and followed what I understood to be WP principles and made an objectively accurate edit.
    So now the end result is that an inaccurate article containing a politically biased assertion is going to stay live. Marlarkey (talk) 02:24, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    Result concerning Marlarkey

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    Marlarkey, you have gone a bit over your 500 word allotment for responses. Please do not comment further unless directly asked to. I will remove an additional reply that was both over your limit and in the wrong section. signed, Rosguill 00:40, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    Weather Event Writer, extension granted as that's essentially what Marlarkey has already taken. signed, Rosguill 01:07, 14 January 2025 (UTC)


    Ok, having now reviewed Declaration of war's page history, its talk page discussion, and Marlarkey's contributions more generally, I find that:

    • Marlarkey has repeatedly violated WP:PIA at Declaration of war since having received a CTOP notice
    • Irrespective of whether it is correct or not to include the Israel-Hamas war, Israel-Hezbollah war, or wars between states and non-state entities more broadly, WeatherWriter's edits to the page are plainly not vandalism, which has a specific (and serious) meaning on Misplaced Pages
    • It appears to be a long-term status quo to include non-state entities provided that there is a citation to some sort of formal declaration of war, and the page's inclusion of conflicts involving non-states Ambazonia and SADR do not appear to have been challenged at any point.
    • Marlarkey is incorrect to assert that their edit is objectively accurate. Whether the edit is accurate is subject to community consensus, and the talk page arguments in favor of inclusion base themselves on RS reporting which is a valid, policy-compliant argument. Marlarkey's arguments that a declaration of war can only occur be between two states do not make any reference to a reliable source stating this; while that text is currently in the lead of the article, it does not have a citation nor is it clear that any citation in the article directly backs this.
    • In light of discussion at Talk:Declaration of war, which at this point shows multiple editors in favor of keeping the Hamas and Hezbollah wars, only Marlarkey firmly for removing them, and one other editor calling for discussion as of December 31st, Marlarkey's edits to unilaterally remove the entries in January amount to slow-motion edit warring
    • Given that Marlarkey has had an account for well over a decade, has edited a wide variety of topics, hit 500 edits while this was happening, does not appear to have otherwise shown interest in Israel/Palestine topics, and that the edits at Declaration of war don't fit into any clear POV-warrior pattern, I don't think that pulling extended-confirmed or issuing a PIA topic ban would help.

    I'm thus inclined to suggest an indefinite partial block from Declaration of war (but not its talk page) as a regular admin action for edit warring, and a logged warning to be mindful of CTOP standards. signed, Rosguill 04:10, 14 January 2025 (UTC

    • As Marlarkey stated that they were unaware of CT, I wanted to confirm that I double checked and found that the CT notice was properly left in November. If Marlarkey chose not to read it, well, that's rather on him—we can only leave messages, we can't force people to read them. I would otherwise agree with Rosguill's assessment. Seraphimblade 12:00, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I entirely endorse Rosguill's reading of this. I am not happy about Marlarkey's approach to our restrictions, but I don't see this as EC gaming, and I can't see how pulling EC rights could be justified at this stage. As such I endorse the proposed page block and logged warning. Marlarkey, you seem to believe that because you are right on the substance you can ignore process and guidelines - that simply isn't true. The arbitration committee has consistently held that being right isn't enough; you need to be able to edit within the scope of our policies. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:10, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Pretty much everything Rosquill said. Marlarkey, it doesn't look like you have a huge amount of experience working in WP:CTOPs. I'm sorry you're finding this upsetting, but CTOPs are a whole 'nother world, and you're either going to have to learn how to nonproblematically work there, or not work there. Valereee (talk) 18:39, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
      FWIW, the CTOP warning was left on your talk page. You've got your archiving set so aggressively that you may be missing a lot of messages, and it's completely plausible that you missed this one, which was only on your talk for two days, and after it was left you didn't edit for a month. However, we do assume that if you've got your archiving set that aggressively, you're keeping on top of anything important by checking your notifications to make sure you didn't miss anything.
      You can probably prevent this happening in future by having your talk page archive no more frequently than you typically go between editing sessions, leaving maybe the five most recent messages unarchived, and/or being sure to check your notifications when logging back in. Any one of those three and you've have likely seen the notification. Valereee (talk) 18:51, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    DanielVizago

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning DanielVizago

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Schazjmd (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:23, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    DanielVizago (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender_and_sexuality#Final_decision
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 29 Dec 2024 Added Category:Misandry to a BLP, after CTOP notification and several talk page messages notifying DanielVizago that the category is not to be applied to articles about individuals (per category description, This category is for issues relating to misandry. It must not include articles about individuals, groups or media that are allegedly misandrist.);
    2. 4 Jan 2025 and 5 Jan 2025 Removing sourced content from Misogyny that states misandry is not a major an issue as misogyny;
    3. 5 Jan 2025 Changing content in Male privilege to emphasize misandry (reverted by another editor with edit summary rv, poorly sourced (sources supplemented by WP:OR and WP:SYNTH), earlier version was better, closer to sources);
    4. 13 Jan 2025 Added "bimisandry" to Biphobia, citing 4 sources, none of which include that term;
    5. 14 Jan 2025, weird edits adding Category:Female rapists with piped names to unrelated articles, then added those names directly to the category page;
    6. 14 Jan 2025 restored the "bimisandry" edit to Biphobia, then added a 5th ref that includes the term but is just a blog; I left a 4th-level warning on talk page;
    7. 14 Jan 2025 (after final warning) adds ] and ] to Hurtcore; those two individuals don't have articles and there is no mention in this article of their charges or convictions, even though the category solely consists of articles of female individuals who have been convicted of rape in a court of law.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    • None
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Above diffs are all edits after the CTOP notification was provided. Before then, DanielVizago misapplied Category:Misandry to 46 articles, which is what caught my attention. Their attempts to add "bimisandry" to Biphobia started 16 Dec 2024. On 28 Dec 2024, DanielVizago added a lot of content to Supremacism about misandry, which another editor reverted with edit summary remove recently added pro-fringe section and put back the excerpt. Most of their 122 edits have been reverted by multiple editors.

    Before the level 4 warning, I tried guiding DanielVizago away from CTOP; they don't engage on their talk page. (They've posted there once, to say "thanks" in response to a warning.) With their refusal to communicate, poor sourcing, and non-NPOV edits, I don't think they should be editing in this topic area. Schazjmd (talk) 23:23, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning DanielVizago

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by DanielVizago

    Statement by caeciliusinhorto

    Since this report was opened, DanielVizago has continued to make questionable edits adding articles to Category:Female rapists.

    • Possibly the worst edit, categorising a living person who has been accused (but not charged, let alone convicted) of sexual assault as a rapist (cf. WP:BLPCRIMINAL)
    • This edit adds the category to a disambiguation page on the basis of one of the people listed on that page, who had in fact been convicted not of rape but of sexual activity with a minor
    • this and this edit categorise two sexually-motivated murderers as rapists despite no evidence that they ever raped anyone in the article (cf. WP:CATV)

    Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 10:53, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Simonm223

    Might be wise, as long as doing so wouldn't interfere with evidence, to get a revision deletion on some of the diffs presented above that make unfounded statements about BLPs. Simonm223 (talk) 18:55, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning DanielVizago

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I've p-blocked from article space to see if we can get this editor communicating. Valereee (talk) 12:35, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I want to hear what they have to say, but I'm going to need a fairly convincing explanation as to how they're here to build an encyclopedia and not to POV-push men's rights activism content where it doesn't belong. The IDHT and spammy behavior and the BLP vios on top of that aren't super encouraging, either, but if they decide to communicate, I'm happy to reassess. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 22:56, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions Add topic