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==Deletion closure of ]==
== Brandmeister ==
Hello {{u|Sandstein}}! In your closure of ] as redirect you have dismissed the two exemplary articles from the magazine '']'' on the topic, to which the other keep !voters have also referred to, as self-published. However, my understanding was that this is a serious, if specialized academic journal, and the claims: "''Slayage'' (ISSN 1546-9212) is an open-access, blind peer-reviewed, MLA-indexed publication and a member of the Directory of Open Access Journals. ''All content is available at no cost, in downloadable, full-text PDFs. There is no submission or publication fee for authors.''" Do you have any additional info why this should not be correct, and that the articles in question should be self-published? Thanks for giving more info! ] (]) 13:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)


:Thanks for asking. In the AfD, you did not describe these sources as articles from an academic journal. You merely referred to them as "" and "". Therefore, ''prima facie'', we have two amateurishly formatted PDFs that do not have citations (to anything other than ''Buffy'' episodes), or any other feature to be expected from an academic article (author descriptions, abstracts, affiliations, page numbers, citation suggestions, etc.) and which are hosted at two different URLs, "dashboard.ir.una.edu/downloads" and "offline.buffy.de". For these reasons, it did not cross my mind that such writings could be considered serious academic research, and even after reading your above message, for the previously mentioned reasons, I do not think that these can be credibly considered independent reliable sources. Moreover, only one of these works deals with the article subject, Principal Snyder, in more than a passing manner, which would still leave us short of the two sources required by GNG. For these reasons, I decline to reconsider my closure. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 15:20, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
He created another account and edited the talkpage of the article at cause in the report. I don't think it is necessary to reopen, since you are the closing admin, you could at your discretion update the report and endorse a restriction. ] (]) 05:00, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::Thanks for the info! The links were just the first hits Google Scholar gave on those, strangely enough. I did not think that would make any difference, but good to know. (For the sake of completeness the links from the journal's page would be and . The affilitions can be found on the issue overview pages and .) It would be really interesting if there has been already any collection of opinions on ''Slayage'' before, but I guess we both don't have insight there, or would you? But as we also disagree and on the evalution of the ''content'', I don't have to worry if a deletion review would make sense except if I happen upon additional sources. Which does not have priority, especially these days. Have a very merry Christmas! ] (]) 16:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks, I'm not aware of any previous discussion. The same to you! <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 17:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
=== ] ===


A courtesy notice that this is going to DRV unless you choose to revise your close to keep.
== ] ==
*Your evaluation of ''Slayage'' is incorrect; it was never an SPS, as is documented currently in ], but peer-reviewed and was at least at one time indexed in ]. For you to even draw a judgement is questionable, as no one in the discussion contended that ''Slayage'' was an SPS; instead, Piotrus (an academic, if that matters) explicitly expressed they appeared suitable to improve the article. Thus, you shouldn't have even looked at a question not raised in the discussion, and even so, you got the facts wrong.
*None of the 'Redirect' !voters articulated a problem that is not correctable through regular editing. References to ] do not satisfy ] number 14 as there is no barrier to editing to correct any issues, per ], part of the same policy page. By assigning nonzero weight to any of these non-policy-based !votes, you erred.
:Further, making a ''de facto'' conclusion that the topic is non-notable despite evidence of such being presented effectively eliminated the impact of ] on precisely a situation within its wheelhouse: information to support notability clearly exists, but it has not been added the article.
Ultimately, the only person in this discussion who asserts to have looked into sourcing not coming to the conclusion that this article should be kept... is you. ] (]) 14:09, 26 December 2024 (UTC)


:I find the tone of this message objectionable, and will not respond further in this matter than I already have above. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 14:28, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
Why did you go for a one month topic ban when two other admins had settled on one week as the appropriate sanction? ] <sup>'']''</sup> 10:23, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::My apologies for not noticing the previous discussion. I'm moving and indenting this as a subheading under that one. I had used the 'start a new talk topic' button.
:Because, as I explained there, Physchim62's continued combative statements after the two other admins' comments, about him being on "show trial" for criticising Israel, led me to believe me that he profoundly misunderstands the nature and purpose of Misplaced Pages, and that a longer ban is needed. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 10:31, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::I am sorry you find the tone objectionable. It is not intended to be; rather, it is an outline of three separate deficiencies in your close; Daranios appears to have addressed the one--''Slayage'' was(?) a peer-reviewed, indexed journal--but not you assessing an objection not raised in the discussion or circumventing NEXIST. It's designed to be very clear for DRV participants what precisely my objections are. How would you have reworded any parts of my posting to be as clear but improving the tone, now that we've established I missed Daranios' previous posting? ] (]) 00:14, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::I think you went out on your own there, the other two admins saw the same diffs and the effect is that you imposed a ban against the emerging consensus and that's not what AE is supposed to be about. Please abate the ban to 1 week and then seek consensus for an extension if you think this is too short. But its wrong to go your own way against consensus. ] <sup>'']''</sup> 10:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::Now at ]. (And c'mon, Jclemens, you know better than this; a ping isn't sufficient, and neither is the stated intention to bring it there when you haven't yet.) —] 00:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Consensus is not required for discretionary sanctions, hence the name. At any rate, two people do not make a consensus, and the only disagreement seems to be about the length of the ban. I'll not modify my sanction. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 10:52, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::::Surprisingly, I initiate relatively few DRVs. I had come back to this page to place the appropriate notification, not expecting Sandstein to be missing it as I believe him to be in Europe. You didn't ping me, else I wouldn't have necessarily noticed this. ] (]) 01:09, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::::Disappointingly inflexible if I may say so and rather disdainful of the views of fellow admins. ] <sup>'']''</sup> 10:58, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::If you take interest in these matters, might I suggest that your time might be better spent by reviewing and closing a few enforcement requests yourself, instead of criticizing those who do? <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 11:06, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::::What would be the point of my spending time reviewing evidence and contributing opinions if you are just going to ignore then and do what you feel like anyway? ] <sup>'']''</sup> 11:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::::No, if you review a case and either close it without action or impose whatever sanction you deem appropriate, I won't second-guess you. That's rather the point of discretionary sanctions, which are intended to be fast and effective: it's up to the individual admin reviewing a request to decide what to do, much like ], and not up to the community by way of a discussion. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 11:52, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
== BLP ==


== Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Louis Mangione ==
You may be unfamiliar with this, but an arbitrator has taken the position that where editors sought to introduce into an article a direct quote from a ''Washington Post'' article that said, in effect, "unnamed government officials say X", that is a clear BLP violation. The reason, she asserted, is that it did not name who the government officials were. That, I expect, is at odds with your view of BLP requirements (it was at odds with mine, but I defer to the arb). Obviously, the statement at the Der Spiegel article was far less revealing as to the source of its statement. We need consistency on wp. --] (]) 01:09, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Is there a diff for this? <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 12:27, 21 June 2010 (UTC)


Is there a reason why ] was deleted instead of having a discussion about redirecting with history? --] (]) 15:39, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
== Number 23 ==


] and not an axe in sight. - I too spent yesterday afternoon photographing an old building for Misplaced Pages - nice to know that we have at least one thing in common. <small><span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 07:13, 21 June 2010 (UTC) :It was deleted because that was the consensus in the AfD discussion. There was no consensus for a redirect. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 16:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)


== Smoothstack ==
:Axe? At any rate, thanks for contributing your architectural know-how to the article, which I think is well written even though what's available online are less than optimal sources. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 12:25, 21 June 2010 (UTC)


I didn't have a chance to weigh in on ], which you closed a couple days ago. Would you object to redirecting this to ]? It already mentions Smoothstack and says pretty much what the article already says, so the ] stub seems redundant. If more information can be fleshed out, then the article can be split off as standalone again. ~] <small>(])</small> 23:44, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
== Breein1007 AE ==


:In my capacity as AfD closer, I don't have any objections to anything anyone does with the article - my role was limited to closing the AfD. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 07:37, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
The enforcement request re Breein1007 has now been archived without an actual result () -- perhaps that's not an outcome you will consider undesirable, but I'd like to make sure it doesn't go unnoticed. ] (]) 09:14, 21 June 2010 (UTC)


== Help please with afc draft in Private Equity project ==
:I've no particular desire either way. If an AE request is archived without action, it's pretty much unactionable by default. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 12:26, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
::Would you extend the same thought about an AE request which is archived without action to the AE request which Loosmark recently filed with regard to me? I asked another admin here whether the best resolution to that request was that Loosmark and I be both completely banned from interacting with each other, or even mentioning each other. I'd welcome your thoughts either here or there as to whether such action would be the best solution to a matter which Loosmark has recently raised again (). ] (]) 12:43, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:::An admin has now said that "An interaction ban between Dr. Loosmark and Varsovian seems to have some merit." and suggested two months as the duration (). I replied that the ban should be longer and tighter (). Loosmark's response starts "An interaction ban between Dr.Loosmakr and Varsovian!? You have to be kidding." () I really would welcome any comments which you can find time to make with regard to this matter. Thank you in advance for any help you may offer. ] (]) 14:08, 21 June 2010 (UTC)


Hi @]. Hoped you might be able to assist in feedback and/or approval for my first draft submission? ] It's been two months waiting in review, I've tagged multiple groups. Saw you were recently active in the Private Equity group and thought you could help. I'm relatively new, hope this is a good path. Thank you in advance:
::: The AE request was about Varsovian breaking his AE sanctions. Namely he told Kotniski that he made accusations racism and that was after he was explained a couple of days earlier on this very talk page that nobody was making accusation of racism and was advised to stop doing it. In my opinion he misused my AE request to start a series of accusations against myself which have '''nothing''' to with the request. (Among other things he said that I should be happy "that he did not report me for deliberately mistranslating a source".) Varsovian is of course free to fill an AE report against me if he wants an interaction ban (i will oppose it), but in my opinion it would be a mistake to close a report on his violation of the AE sanctions with a interaction ban between me and him. It will just give him the green light to go on claiming that people make accusations of racism when they did not make such accusations plus it will get rid of the person who dared to report him for such a violation. ] 14:16, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
::::As was pointed out to you here , you are incorrect when you say "Varsovian breaking his AE sanctions". You have given diffs regarding a single sanction. Kindly refrain from making the accusation regarding plural sanctions. I suggest that your apparently inability either to correctly use plural forms about me or to tell the truth (one or the other is clearly the cause) simply tells me that the best thing for WP is if we are both immediately and very firmly banned from interacting with each other. ] (]) 14:30, 21 June 2010 (UTC)


<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> ] (]) 13:14, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
::::: Thanks but I am able to use the plural quite correctly and I suggest you read my report again. I claimed you broke '''both''' your specific AE sanction '''and''' the general Digwuren sanctions. I have even put both links in the report. And small wonder you are now lobbying for closing the AE report with a "firm interaction ban" both on the Strifle's and Sandstein's talk. It gives you a dream scenario without addressing your misconduct in the slightest to boot. ] 14:52, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::Hmm, now it is "I claimed you broke '''both''' your specific AE sanction" while in the past it was "The AE request was about Varsovian breaking his AE sanctions." but you are "able to use the plural quite correctly". I won't provide diffs to the above quotes (which are both on this page) as I'm not accusing you of any misconduct (particularly, to avoid any doubt, not accusing you of lying about whether I broke sanctions or one sanction). ] (]) 15:01, 21 June 2010 (UTC)


:Sorry, I'm not active in AFC and have no knowledge of or interest in the topic, so I'll have to decline. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 14:14, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::: Yeah, you just wrote it's either "''my inability either to correctly use plural forms about you or to tell the truth (one or the other is clearly the cause)''". Either of that is uncivil and you seem to repeatedly be under the illusion that if you attach the "''I am not accusing you of...''" disclaimer, you can write whatever you wish then. Not so. But anyway since now according to you, you are "not accusing me of any misconduct" may I ask why again are you going on about it then? This is not a forum for chitchatting. ] 17:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
::Ok thank you. ] (]) 14:25, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::You have repeatedly made good-faith mistakes when using the plural form (examples are above and they're good faith mistakes not misconduct, so there's no need for me to provide diffs). This suggests that you may be reading not what my words say but what you think they should say. Giving that you always seem to take the understanding which is worst for me, it may well be that you're having problems with me. Therefore, so that you don't post with reference to those problems (and drop the WP:STICK) it would be best if we were banned as I've suggested. ] (]) 17:54, 21 June 2010 (UTC)


== Unsatisfactory discussion ==
:::::::::: Your latest post is once again a violation of your restriction: . Quote ''Also, whenever he alleges misconduct by another editor, he must with the same edit provide all diffs that are required to substantiate his allegations, or link to the place where he has already provided these diffs, if he has not already provided them in the same section of the discussion at issue.''. The above: "'''This suggests that you may be reading not what my words say but what you think they should say. Giving that you always seem to take the understanding which is worst for me, it may well be that you're having problems with me.'''" is clear accusation of bad faith. You seems to think that you have found a very clever loophole by constantly using the "not misconduct" disclaimer however you are mistaken because if that would be allowed to pass then everybody could avoid any restriction that way. ] 18:31, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Hai, hope you're doing good. I share your opinion on one of the AfDs three months back. The AfD was an unsatisfactory discussion, and I think the article needs a new discussion focused on the sources. What would be the appropriate way to start a new discussion to get more opinions? Should I use DRV or AFD? Thanks in advance. ] (]) 11:29, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

:Since the outcome of the AfD was no consensus, you can start a new AfD at any time. DRV is only used if you disagree with the closure of the AfD. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 12:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 15:06, 15 January 2025

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Deletion closure of Principal Snyder

Hello Sandstein! In your closure of Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Principal Snyder as redirect you have dismissed the two exemplary articles from the magazine Slayage on the topic, to which the other keep !voters have also referred to, as self-published. However, my understanding was that this is a serious, if specialized academic journal, and the its homepage claims: "Slayage (ISSN 1546-9212) is an open-access, blind peer-reviewed, MLA-indexed publication and a member of the Directory of Open Access Journals. All content is available at no cost, in downloadable, full-text PDFs. There is no submission or publication fee for authors." Do you have any additional info why this should not be correct, and that the articles in question should be self-published? Thanks for giving more info! Daranios (talk) 13:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. In the AfD, you did not describe these sources as articles from an academic journal. You merely referred to them as "Buffy, the Scooby Gang, and Monstrous Authority: BtVS and the Subversion of Authority" and ""You're on My Campus, Buddy!" Sovereign and Disciplinary Power at Sunnydale High". Therefore, prima facie, we have two amateurishly formatted PDFs that do not have citations (to anything other than Buffy episodes), or any other feature to be expected from an academic article (author descriptions, abstracts, affiliations, page numbers, citation suggestions, etc.) and which are hosted at two different URLs, "dashboard.ir.una.edu/downloads" and "offline.buffy.de". For these reasons, it did not cross my mind that such writings could be considered serious academic research, and even after reading your above message, for the previously mentioned reasons, I do not think that these can be credibly considered independent reliable sources. Moreover, only one of these works deals with the article subject, Principal Snyder, in more than a passing manner, which would still leave us short of the two sources required by GNG. For these reasons, I decline to reconsider my closure. Sandstein 15:20, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the info! The links were just the first hits Google Scholar gave on those, strangely enough. I did not think that would make any difference, but good to know. (For the sake of completeness the links from the journal's page would be here and here. The affilitions can be found on the issue overview pages here and here.) It would be really interesting if there has been already any collection of opinions on Slayage before, but I guess we both don't have insight there, or would you? But as we also disagree and on the evalution of the content, I don't have to worry if a deletion review would make sense except if I happen upon additional sources. Which does not have priority, especially these days. Have a very merry Christmas! Daranios (talk) 16:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks, I'm not aware of any previous discussion. The same to you! Sandstein 17:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Principal Snyder

A courtesy notice that this is going to DRV unless you choose to revise your close to keep.

  • Your evaluation of Slayage is incorrect; it was never an SPS, as is documented currently in Buffy studies, but peer-reviewed and was at least at one time indexed in DOAJ. For you to even draw a judgement is questionable, as no one in the discussion contended that Slayage was an SPS; instead, Piotrus (an academic, if that matters) explicitly expressed they appeared suitable to improve the article. Thus, you shouldn't have even looked at a question not raised in the discussion, and even so, you got the facts wrong.
  • None of the 'Redirect' !voters articulated a problem that is not correctable through regular editing. References to WP:NOT#PLOT do not satisfy WP:DEL#REASON number 14 as there is no barrier to editing to correct any issues, per WP:ATD, part of the same policy page. By assigning nonzero weight to any of these non-policy-based !votes, you erred.
Further, making a de facto conclusion that the topic is non-notable despite evidence of such being presented effectively eliminated the impact of WP:NEXIST on precisely a situation within its wheelhouse: information to support notability clearly exists, but it has not been added the article.

Ultimately, the only person in this discussion who asserts to have looked into sourcing not coming to the conclusion that this article should be kept... is you. Jclemens (talk) 14:09, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I find the tone of this message objectionable, and will not respond further in this matter than I already have above. Sandstein 14:28, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
My apologies for not noticing the previous discussion. I'm moving and indenting this as a subheading under that one. I had used the 'start a new talk topic' button.
I am sorry you find the tone objectionable. It is not intended to be; rather, it is an outline of three separate deficiencies in your close; Daranios appears to have addressed the one--Slayage was(?) a peer-reviewed, indexed journal--but not you assessing an objection not raised in the discussion or circumventing NEXIST. It's designed to be very clear for DRV participants what precisely my objections are. How would you have reworded any parts of my posting to be as clear but improving the tone, now that we've established I missed Daranios' previous posting? Jclemens (talk) 00:14, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
Now at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2024 December 27. (And c'mon, Jclemens, you know better than this; a ping isn't sufficient, and neither is the stated intention to bring it there when you haven't yet.) —Cryptic 00:57, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
Surprisingly, I initiate relatively few DRVs. I had come back to this page to place the appropriate notification, not expecting Sandstein to be missing it as I believe him to be in Europe. You didn't ping me, else I wouldn't have necessarily noticed this. Jclemens (talk) 01:09, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Louis Mangione

Is there a reason why Louis Mangione was deleted instead of having a discussion about redirecting with history? --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:39, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

It was deleted because that was the consensus in the AfD discussion. There was no consensus for a redirect. Sandstein 16:01, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Smoothstack

I didn't have a chance to weigh in on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Smoothstack, which you closed a couple days ago. Would you object to redirecting this to Employment bond#Training Repayment Agreement Provisions? It already mentions Smoothstack and says pretty much what the article already says, so the Smoothstack stub seems redundant. If more information can be fleshed out, then the article can be split off as standalone again. ~Anachronist (talk) 23:44, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

In my capacity as AfD closer, I don't have any objections to anything anyone does with the article - my role was limited to closing the AfD. Sandstein 07:37, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Help please with afc draft in Private Equity project

Hi @Sandstein. Hoped you might be able to assist in feedback and/or approval for my first draft submission? Draft:Gerry Cardinale It's been two months waiting in review, I've tagged multiple groups. Saw you were recently active in the Private Equity group and thought you could help. I'm relatively new, hope this is a good path. Thank you in advance:

~~~~ Yachtahead (talk) 13:14, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not active in AFC and have no knowledge of or interest in the topic, so I'll have to decline. Sandstein 14:14, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
Ok thank you. Yachtahead (talk) 14:25, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Unsatisfactory discussion

Hai, hope you're doing good. I share your opinion on one of the AfDs you closed three months back. The AfD was an unsatisfactory discussion, and I think the article needs a new discussion focused on the sources. What would be the appropriate way to start a new discussion to get more opinions? Should I use DRV or AFD? Thanks in advance. TheWikiholic (talk) 11:29, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Since the outcome of the AfD was no consensus, you can start a new AfD at any time. DRV is only used if you disagree with the closure of the AfD. Sandstein 12:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
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