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Revision as of 23:43, 4 April 2009 editRFC bot (talk \| contribs)216,124 editsm Update, 15 current discussions← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 16:02, 16 January 2025 edit undoLegobot (talk \| contribs)Bots1,671,330 edits Removed: Talk:Thomas Sewell (neo-Nazi).
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	'''The following discussions are requested to have community-wide attention:'''
			{{rfclistintro}}
			</noinclude>
			''']'''
			{{rfcquote\|text=
			The current single sentence on Gaza in the lede is as follows: {{green\|During the Israel–Hamas war, Biden condemned the actions of Hamas as terrorism and sent military aid to Israel, as well as humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip.}} The sentence is regularly modified, including the word "limited" which keeps being added/removed in front of "humanitarian aid". I started ] on this topic a while ago; it didn't get a lot of input and didn't lead to a consensus. I thought this RfC could generate a larger discussion and settle a few related questions at once:
			* Should the "military aid" and "humanitarian aid" be mentioned side by side as is?
			* Should we mention that the amount of military aid sent to Israel is ?
			* Next to the mention of military aid, should there be a mention of allegations of war crimes against Israel?
			Feel free to expand the discussion to other questions. My hope is that we can workshop a sentence that has a consensus behind it. Thanks! ] (]) 13:58, 11 January 2025 (UTC)}}
			''']'''
			{{rfcquote\|text=
			Should the list include former chief executive officers? ] (]) 09:19, 11 January 2025 (UTC)}}
			''']'''
			{{rfcquote\|text=
			Should this article's Filmography section include the web series ''Battle for Dream Island''? ] (]) 19:32, 4 January 2025 (UTC)}}
			''']'''
			{{rfcquote\|text=
			Should the first sentence in the lead be rewritten: (red to be removed; green to add) "Ronald Wilson Reagan (February 6, 1911 – June 5, 2004) was <del style="color: #8B0000;">an American politician and actor who served as</del> the 40th president of the United States<ins style="color: #008560;">, serving</ins> from 1981 to 1989"? ] (]) 17:31, 4 January 2025 (UTC)}}
			''']'''
			{{rfcquote\|text=
			Should we remove "A member of the wealthy South African Musk family"

			Yes or No ] (]) 19:01, 2 January 2025 (UTC)}}
	* <strong>]</strong> Should the urban legend about Gere and the gerbil be included in his bio.
			''']'''
	* <strong>]</strong> I believe the category she missed, losing the championship as a result, is relevant information
			{{rfcquote\|text=
	* <strong>]</strong> What should be the criteria for American criminals, specifically taking into account ]?
			It's been three years since the ] in regards to the infobox image. As I believed so back then, the current image (which was reached by consensus albeit) is unflattering and as one user noted above, it's a bit creepy. I created a ] so you can see what I'm talking about. Her eyes are half-open, quality isn't the best and if this is truly the 'best' picture that captures what she's known for (as stated in the last discussion three years ago in terms of her outfits), then perhaps it's best to asses an infobox image based on quality over what she's 'known' for. If this is the best picture that shows her during her 'comeback' (as stated in last discussion), then once again, I must emphasize the quality of the picture (awkward lighting, unflattering eye pose, not the best in quality). These are the current images at commons that are best suited for an infobox image. As noted in other talk page discussions, when the subject of an article passes away, their infobox image is also replaced with a black and white picture ''or'' of one that captures them in their 'prime' so to speak. Although (as of now) Marcos is still alive, I feel that Option B is in better quality than the current picture, shows her as her time as First Lady (much like other first lady articles) and will depict her in her prime when she passes away (not a huge factor now, but worth thinking about). Pinging previous contributors to the discussion three years ago for good measure: {{ping\|Chieharumachi}}, {{ping\|Crisantom}}, {{ping\|Object404}}, {{ping\|Unilimited247}}, {{ping\|Lochglasgowstrathyre}} ] (]) 20:28, 27 December 2024 (UTC)}}
	* <strong>]</strong> An Editor has claimed sections are libellous. Are they? How? What can be improved?
			''']'''
	* <strong>]</strong> Should Category:Russian-Americans be included? The category is described as ""American people who immigrated to the United States from Russia and their descendants". There is a sourced statement that her grandparents immigrated from Russia.
			{{rfcquote\|text=
	* <strong>]</strong> This article just went through a highly contentious RfD that resulted in no consensus. The degree of contention and lack of consensus at the RfD signifies the need for help in improving this article, which touches on religious, historical, and biographical topics
			The opening to the ] article read:
	* <strong>]</strong> are subject (Silver's) theories and/or predictions appropriate for inclusion in this article
	* <strong>]</strong> 2 versions of the article have developed due to differing views over how the subject's political views should be presented
	* <strong>]</strong> A recent radical revision of ] (see ]) moved policy-related material to daughter articles with only a short summary; a more detailed summary was intended to be done after improving the daughter articles. Is this approach appropriate? If yes, which of the two short summaries discussed should be used temporarily?
	* <strong>]</strong> RfC: on the John Lennon deportation attempt memos – Does the recent version of the paragraph on the memos between Thurmond and Timmons violate ] or ]? If so, how, and how would you suggest fixing?
	* <strong>]</strong> This article is being repeatedly edited by a single user to cast Matthew Amorello in a more favorable light. This editor eliminates existing citations and does not include new, relevant ones for their own additions/edits.
	* <strong>]</strong> Is ] a notable parody, and does the resrtictions of ] prohibit the inclusion of this porn flick in the article?
	* <strong>]</strong> this section has been repeatedly removed by an anonymous editor, with no reason given
	* <strong>]</strong> a friend of Kim Schmitz tries to establish an allegedly more balanced version of the article

			'''Abdel Fattah Saeed Hussein Khalil El-Sisi'''{{Efn\|{{langx\|ar\|عبد الفتاح سعيد حسين خليل السيسي}}}} (born 19 November 1954) is an Egyptian politician, ],<ref name="dictator">
⚫	{{RFC list footer\|~~RFCbio~~\|hide_instructions={{{hide_instructions}}} }}
			Sources that categorize Sisi as a dictator:
			{{bulleted list\|{{Cite news \|title=Egypt’s rushed election shows Abdel-Fattah al-Sisi is nervous \|url=https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2023/10/03/egypts-rushed-election-shows-abdel-fattah-al-sisi-is-nervous \|access-date=2024-12-27 \|work=The Economist \|issn=0013-0613 \|quote="Last month Abdel-Fattah al-Sisi, Egypt’s military dictator..."}}\|{{Cite web \|last=Dunne \|first=Michele \|date=2019-04-08 \|title=Why Is Trump Helping Egypt’s Dictator Entrench His Power? \|url=https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/04/08/donald-trump-abdel-fattah-al-sisi-egypt-226579/ \|access-date=2024-12-27 \|website=POLITICO Magazine \|language=en}}
			\|{{Cite web \|title=President Trump, Condemn This Sham Egyptian Election {{!}} The Washington Institute \|url=https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/president-trump-condemn-sham-egyptian-election \|access-date=2024-12-27 \|website=www.washingtoninstitute.org \|language=en \|quote="...issued a statement praising the Egyptian dictator's magnificent work for the country"}}
			\|{{Cite news \|title=A Blank Check for Egypt's Dictator \|url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-06-26/u-dot-s-dot-gives-egypts-dictator-a-blank-check?embedded-checkout=false \|access-date=2024-12-27 \|work=Bloomberg.com \|language=en}}
			\|{{Cite web \|last=Toosi \|first=Nahal \|date=2021-07-12 \|title=In D.C. visit, Egypt spy boss claims U.S. agreed — in writing — to jail American activist \|url=https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/egypt-spy-boss-jail-american-498983 \|access-date=2024-12-27 \|website=POLITICO \|language=en \|quote="...Abdel Fattah El-Sisi, the Egyptian dictator who has imprisoned tens of thousands of dissidents."}}{{Cite web \|last=Lawler \|first=Dave \|date=2019-04-23 \|title=Egypt's President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi could rule until 2030 after winning referendum \|url=https://www.axios.com/2019/04/23/sisi-referendum-rule-egypt-2030-constitution \|access-date=2024-12-27 \|website=Axios \|language=en \|quote="He has now cemented his status as Egypt's dictator without losing his position as a U.S. ally."}}
			\|{{Cite web \|last=Greenwald \|first=Glenn \|date=2015-03-31 \|title=Obama Personally Tells the Egyptian Dictator That U.S. Will Again Send Weapons (and Cash) to His Regime \|url=https://theintercept.com/2015/03/31/obama-lifts-freeze-weapons-transfer-egyptian-dictator/ \|access-date=2024-12-27 \|website=The Intercept \|language=en-US}}
			\|{{Cite web \|last=Williams \|first=Jennifer \|date=2017-04-03 \|title=Egypt’s president is a bloodthirsty dictator. Trump thinks he’s done a “fantastic job.” \|url=https://www.vox.com/world/2017/4/3/15160358/trump-egypt-abdel-fattah-el-sisi-white-house \|access-date=2024-12-27 \|website=Vox \|language=en-US}}\|{{Cite news \|date=2020-12-01 \|title=Egypt President Abdul Fattah al-Sisi: Ruler with an iron grip \|url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-19256730 \|access-date=2024-11-22 \|work=BBC News \|language=en-GB}}\|{{Cite news \|title=Egypt is again under military rule, but Sisi lacks Nasser's appeal \|url=https://www.economist.com/special-report/2021/08/24/egypt-is-again-under-military-rule-but-sisi-lacks-nassers-appeal \|access-date=2024-11-25 \|url-access=subscription\|work=The Economist \|issn=0013-0613\|archive-url=https://archive.today/2021.08.26-144020/https://www.economist.com/special-report/2021/08/24/egypt-is-again-under-military-rule-but-sisi-lacks-nassers-appeal\|archive-date=2021-08-26\|url-status=live}}\|{{Citation \|last=Grewal \|first=Sharan \|title=Egypt: A Coup against Democracy \|date=2023-07-25 \|work=Soldiers of Democracy? \|pages=136–176 \|url=https://academic.oup.com/book/46755/chapter-abstract/414394851?redirectedFrom=fulltext \|access-date=2024-11-25 \|publisher=Oxford University PressOxford \|doi=10.1093/oso/9780192873910.003.0007 \|isbn=0-19-287391-1}}\|{{Cite web \|date=2024-03-15 \|title=EU Deal with Egypt Rewards Authoritarianism, Betrays 'EU Values' {{!}} Human Rights Watch \|url=https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/03/15/eu-deal-egypt-rewards-authoritarianism-betrays-eu-values \|access-date=2024-12-14 \|language=en}}}}</ref> and retired military officer who has been serving as the ] and current ] since 2014.<ref name=":5">{{Cite web \|date=2024-03-15 \|title=EU Deal with Egypt Rewards Authoritarianism, Betrays 'EU Values' {{!}} Human Rights Watch \|url=https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/03/15/eu-deal-egypt-rewards-authoritarianism-betrays-eu-values \|access-date=2024-12-14 \|language=en}}</ref>

			(The word dictator been been removed for now while the RfC discussion takes place)

			Should Sisi be referred to as a dictator? Some of these options are not mutually exclusive, so more than one can be selected:
			*'''A.''' Yes he should be, in a similar way as described above or found in the the leads of ], ], ], ]
			*'''B.''' No he should not be, but he should be described as an authoritarian ruler, leader of an authoritarian regime, or leader of a military dictatorship somewhere in the lead, similar to the leads of ], ], ], ]
			*'''C.''' No he should not be, but some variation of "Many observers see Sisi as a dictator" should be included in the lead.
			*'''D. ''' No he should not be, and he should '''not''' be described as an authoritarian ruler. Instead, different arguments regarding his form of rule should be summarized in the body.
			*'''E.''' Other (please elaborate)
			] (]) 16:55, 27 December 2024 (UTC)}}
			''']'''
			{{rfcquote\|text=
			Musk is the wealthiest person in the world. He has been described as an oligarch by prominent commentators, academics, and experts.

			Should a variant of the following sentence be included in the lead?

			''Due to his considerable influence over American government policy, politics, media, industry, and public discourse, some academics and politicians have characterized Musk as an American oligarch.</small>
			''

			Does this addition have any support? Are there any other suggestions? (Some editors have argued that Musk should directly be referred to as an oligarch in the lead. I now agree with those that oppose doing so per ].)
			] (]) 08:33, 26 December 2024 (UTC)}}
			''']'''
			{{rfcquote\|text=
			What is the appropriate due coverage of the comments Lorenz made about the murder of Brian Thompson and the controversy surrounding them? See details and sources in the previous discussion ]. {{ordered list \|list_style_type=upper-alpha
			\| Whole section (2+ paragraphs)
			\| Whole paragraph (3-6 sentences)
			\| Short mention (1-2 sentences)
			\| No mention }}

			] (]) 19:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC)}}
		⚫	{{RFC list footer\|bio\|hide_instructions={{{hide_instructions}}} }}

Latest revision as of 16:02, 16 January 2025

The following discussions are requested to have community-wide attention:

Talk:Joe Biden

The current single sentence on Gaza in the lede is as follows: During the Israel–Hamas war, Biden condemned the actions of Hamas as terrorism and sent military aid to Israel, as well as humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip. The sentence is regularly modified, including the word "limited" which keeps being added/removed in front of "humanitarian aid". I started a discussion on this topic a while ago; it didn't get a lot of input and didn't lead to a consensus. I thought this RfC could generate a larger discussion and settle a few related questions at once:

Should the "military aid" and "humanitarian aid" be mentioned side by side as is?
Should we mention that the amount of military aid sent to Israel is a historical record?
Next to the mention of military aid, should there be a mention of allegations of war crimes against Israel?

Feel free to expand the discussion to other questions. My hope is that we can workshop a sentence that has a consensus behind it. Thanks! WikiFouf (talk) 13:58, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:List of health insurance chief executive officers in the United States

Should the list include former chief executive officers? Cunard (talk) 09:19, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Rosie O'Donnell

Should this article's Filmography section include the web series Battle for Dream Island? Ithinkiplaygames (talk) 19:32, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Ronald Reagan

Should the first sentence in the lead be rewritten: (red to be removed; green to add) "Ronald Wilson Reagan (February 6, 1911 – June 5, 2004) was ~~an American politician and actor who served as~~ the 40th president of the United States, serving from 1981 to 1989"? Векочел (talk) 17:31, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Elon Musk

Should we remove "A member of the wealthy South African Musk family"

Yes or No Slatersteven (talk) 19:01, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Imelda Marcos

It's been three years since the last discussion was held in regards to the infobox image. As I believed so back then, the current image (which was reached by consensus albeit) is unflattering and as one user noted above, it's a bit creepy. I created a cropped close up so you can see what I'm talking about. Her eyes are half-open, quality isn't the best and if this is truly the 'best' picture that captures what she's known for (as stated in the last discussion three years ago in terms of her outfits), then perhaps it's best to asses an infobox image based on quality over what she's 'known' for. If this is the best picture that shows her during her 'comeback' (as stated in last discussion), then once again, I must emphasize the quality of the picture (awkward lighting, unflattering eye pose, not the best in quality). These are the current images at commons that are best suited for an infobox image. As noted in other talk page discussions, when the subject of an article passes away, their infobox image is also replaced with a black and white picture or of one that captures them in their 'prime' so to speak. Although (as of now) Marcos is still alive, I feel that Option B is in better quality than the current picture, shows her as her time as First Lady (much like other first lady articles) and will depict her in her prime when she passes away (not a huge factor now, but worth thinking about). Pinging previous contributors to the discussion three years ago for good measure: @Chieharumachi:, @Crisantom:, @Object404:, @Unilimited247:, @Lochglasgowstrathyre: TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:28, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Abdel Fattah el-Sisi

The opening to the Abdel Fattah el-Sisi article read:

Abdel Fattah Saeed Hussein Khalil El-Sisi (born 19 November 1954) is an Egyptian politician, dictator, and retired military officer who has been serving as the sixth and current president of Egypt since 2014.

(The word dictator been been removed for now while the RfC discussion takes place)

Should Sisi be referred to as a dictator? Some of these options are not mutually exclusive, so more than one can be selected:

A. Yes he should be, in a similar way as described above or found in the the leads of Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo, Kim Jong Un, Hafez al Assad, Pinochet
B. No he should not be, but he should be described as an authoritarian ruler, leader of an authoritarian regime, or leader of a military dictatorship somewhere in the lead, similar to the leads of Zine El Abidine Ben Ali, Mohammed bin Salman, Ilham Aliyev, Isaias Afwerki
C. No he should not be, but some variation of "Many observers see Sisi as a dictator" should be included in the lead.
D. No he should not be, and he should not be described as an authoritarian ruler. Instead, different arguments regarding his form of rule should be summarized in the body.
E. Other (please elaborate)

Firecat93 (talk) 16:55, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Elon Musk

Musk is the wealthiest person in the world. He has been described as an oligarch by prominent commentators, academics, and experts.

Should a variant of the following sentence be included in the lead?

Due to his considerable influence over American government policy, politics, media, industry, and public discourse, some academics and politicians have characterized Musk as an American oligarch.

Does this addition have any support? Are there any other suggestions? (Some editors have argued that Musk should directly be referred to as an oligarch in the lead. I now agree with those that oppose doing so per WP:UNDUE.) Firecat93 (talk) 08:33, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Taylor Lorenz

What is the appropriate due coverage of the comments Lorenz made about the murder of Brian Thompson and the controversy surrounding them? See details and sources in the previous discussion here.

Whole section (2+ paragraphs)
Whole paragraph (3-6 sentences)
Short mention (1-2 sentences)
No mention

Vegan416 (talk) 19:39, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Arabic: عبد الفتاح سعيد حسين خليل السيسي

Sources that categorize Sisi as a dictator:
- "Egypt's rushed election shows Abdel-Fattah al-Sisi is nervous". The Economist. ISSN 0013-0613. Retrieved 2024-12-27. Last month Abdel-Fattah al-Sisi, Egypt's military dictator...
- Dunne, Michele (2019-04-08). "Why Is Trump Helping Egypt's Dictator Entrench His Power?". POLITICO Magazine. Retrieved 2024-12-27.
- "President Trump, Condemn This Sham Egyptian Election | The Washington Institute". www.washingtoninstitute.org. Retrieved 2024-12-27. ...issued a statement praising the Egyptian dictator's magnificent work for the country
- "A Blank Check for Egypt's Dictator". Bloomberg.com. Retrieved 2024-12-27.
- Toosi, Nahal (2021-07-12). "In D.C. visit, Egypt spy boss claims U.S. agreed — in writing — to jail American activist". POLITICO. Retrieved 2024-12-27. ...Abdel Fattah El-Sisi, the Egyptian dictator who has imprisoned tens of thousands of dissidents.Lawler, Dave (2019-04-23). "Egypt's President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi could rule until 2030 after winning referendum". Axios. Retrieved 2024-12-27. He has now cemented his status as Egypt's dictator without losing his position as a U.S. ally.
- Greenwald, Glenn (2015-03-31). "Obama Personally Tells the Egyptian Dictator That U.S. Will Again Send Weapons (and Cash) to His Regime". The Intercept. Retrieved 2024-12-27.
- Williams, Jennifer (2017-04-03). "Egypt's president is a bloodthirsty dictator. Trump thinks he's done a "fantastic job."". Vox. Retrieved 2024-12-27.
- "Egypt President Abdul Fattah al-Sisi: Ruler with an iron grip". BBC News. 2020-12-01. Retrieved 2024-11-22.
- "Egypt is again under military rule, but Sisi lacks Nasser's appeal". The Economist. ISSN 0013-0613. Archived from the original on 2021-08-26. Retrieved 2024-11-25.
- Grewal, Sharan (2023-07-25), "Egypt: A Coup against Democracy", Soldiers of Democracy?, Oxford University PressOxford, pp. 136–176, doi:10.1093/oso/9780192873910.003.0007, ISBN 0-19-287391-1, retrieved 2024-11-25
- "EU Deal with Egypt Rewards Authoritarianism, Betrays 'EU Values' | Human Rights Watch". 2024-03-15. Retrieved 2024-12-14.
"EU Deal with Egypt Rewards Authoritarianism, Betrays 'EU Values' | Human Rights Watch". 2024-03-15. Retrieved 2024-12-14.

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