| Revision as of 19:49, 26 February 2009 editEnkyo2 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Pending changes reviewers58,409 editsm →References← Previous edit |
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{{oldafdfull| date = 19 February 2009 (UTC) | result = '''no consensus''' | page = Mongolia during Tang rule }} |
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{{WikiProject Central Asia|Mongolia=yes}} |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|1= |
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{{WikiProject China|importance=high}} |
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{{WikiProject Central Asia|importance=mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Mongols|importance=Mid}} |
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{{Archive box|search=yes| |
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* ] <small>(February–May 2009)</small> |
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{{Clear}} |
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==AfD== |
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== Move == |
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Unhealhty behaviour of the "author" of this "article" in the talk page of User:GenuineMongol and other factors justify the AfD nomination of this and as well "article" "Tibet during the Tang Dynasty". These are actually a well-veiled form of vandalism. ] (]) 04:11, 20 February 2009 (UTC) |
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I moved this page from Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty to Tang Dynasty in Inner Asia. The title "Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty" can technically refer to all activity in the region during the period of the Tang dynasty, regardless of whether the Tang were involved or not. However, this article is specifically about Tang activities in the region. I don't think this is a contentious move, but if anyone has an issue with it, please say so. ] (]) 00:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC) |
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::You can't justify an article being deleted, because you don't like the editor. ]''' 07:58, 26 February 2009 (UTC) |
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:::Dream Focus, before making any decision, please study thoroughly all other related articles. Mongolia did NOT exist AT ALL when Tang invaded the area. Mongolia was founded only in 1206 by ]. How could a nation, which was not established then, be invaded by someone? Be reasonable. --] (]) 13:22, 26 February 2009 (UTC) |
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::::I construed "Mongolia" in the article title to be referencing a region somewhat larger than the ambit of ]'s current national borders -- see, e.g, ]. Was it mistake to have perceived the title in this manner? --] (]) 18:08, 26 February 2009 (UTC) |
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==Non-standard citation format== |
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I removed the following from the bibliographic reference source citations because the non-standard format makes it impossible for me to evaluate in a manner consistent with ]. If this material can be modified in a more conventional manner, it might represent a welcome contribution: |
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:* '']'', vols. ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ], ]. |
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In its present shape, this material is inaccessible; and in fact, the citation becomes a meaningless gesture. --] (]) 18:08, 26 February 2009 (UTC) |
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==Difficult-to-parse text== |
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With the unhelpful in-line citations removed, the dense text of the two paragraphs of this article seem nearly impossible to parse: |
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:"The geographical area known as Mongolia was under Chinese domination in the 7th to 8th centuries. A Proto Mongolic people, the Khitans were under Chinese rule. |
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:"The Han Chinese Tang Dynasty conquered a large area of the steppes of Central Asia, Mongolia, and Russia, and forced the Gokturks, and the Khitans and Mongols into submission and acceptance of Chinese rule. The Han Chinese Emperor Tang Taizong was crowned ''Tian Kehan'', or heavenly khagan, after beating the Gokturks and then the Khitan Mongols in Mongolia. It is not certain whether the title also appiled to rest of the Tang emperors, since the term kaghan only refers to males and women had become dominant in the Chinese court after 665 until the year 705. However, we do have two appeal letters from the Turkic hybrid rulers, Ashina Qutluγ Ton Tardu in 727, the Yabgu of Tokharistan, and Yina Tudun Qule in 741, the king of Tashkent, addressing Emperor Xuanzong of Tang as Tian Kehan during the Umayyad expansion. The Chinese were the first sedentary peoples to conquer the steppes of mongolia, central asia, and russia. They were also the first non altaic peoples to do so. Because of this, the Tang Dynasty was the largest Chinese empire in all Chinese history. |
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I've struggled to make out what this material has to do with the presumptive subject, but the only thing this text explains is that a Chinese emperor incorporated a new title into his list of titles -- ''Tian Kehan.''" |
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Since this material represents the substance of the article, I'd have to conclude that it should be deleted. As far as I can tell, the only thing worth salvaging is the title of the article -- but that seems like a very slim reed ...? --] (]) 18:48, 26 February 2009 (UTC) |
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==References== |
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The following cited references are in Chinese. A contributor who posts information from a non-English source must accept the burden of showing that his/her translation of the relevant material is accurate and that the source itself is trustworthy. The tweaked bibliographic source citations are a step in a constructive direction; but without more, all the so-called references to the pages of this specific book are inaccessible, hence meaningless. |
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*] et al (2003). ''A History of Chinese Muslim (Vol.2)'' (Zhongguo Huihui min zu shi / Bai Shouyi zhu bian ; Ma Shouqian, Li Songmao fu zhu bian |
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中国回回民族史 / 白寿彜主编 ; 马寿千, 李松茂副主编 . Beijing (北京市): Zhonghua Book Company (中华书局). ISBN 7-101-02890-X. |
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* ] <strike>(1992). ''A History of Turks''. Beijing: Chinese Social Sciences Press. ISBN 7-5004-0432-8. |
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7-5004-0432-8</strike> (薛宗正). (1992). ''Turkic peoples'' (突厥史). Beijing: 中国社会科学出版社, 1992 |
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10-ISBN 7-500-40432-8; 13-ISBN 978-7-500-40432-3; |
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The Bai Shouyi book is held in the collection of the National Library of Australia, but I did not find a World Cat reference number which would help me locate somewhere outside the antipodes. This means that even if I were willing to try to use this material in a process of trying to improve ], I wouldn't know how to begin to locate the book outside of China or Australia. |
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The Google search engine could not help me locate this book by author, title or IBSN. |
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*Liu, Yitang (1997). ''Studies of Chinese Western Regions''. Taipei: Cheng Chung Book Company. ISBN 957-091119-0. |
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This frustrting exercise was a futile investment. My patience was stretched in an effort to find some usable material from these three books. --] (]) 19:24, 26 February 2009 (UTC) |
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I moved this page from Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty to Tang Dynasty in Inner Asia. The title "Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty" can technically refer to all activity in the region during the period of the Tang dynasty, regardless of whether the Tang were involved or not. However, this article is specifically about Tang activities in the region. I don't think this is a contentious move, but if anyone has an issue with it, please say so. Otebig (talk) 00:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
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