User talk:Jimbo Wales: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 16:53, 26 November 2023 view sourceJimbo Wales (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Founder14,541 editsm →Another Endowment question: - fix indent← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 01:44, 19 January 2025 view source ArionStar (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users3,113 edits →Misplaced Pages:Featured picture candidates/delist/Jimmy Wales: new sectionTag: New topic
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			Happy New Year Jimbo!!! I hope all is well with you and your team.

			Could you or your page watchers help me with ]? The draft has been declined and tagged up. It was then deleted years ago. I had it restored today after I came across one of his photos. I think he and his photography are fascinating for capturing aspects of New Zealand's transportation and industrial history. His work is in museum and library collections. At least one of his photographs has been used in a book. He photographed Maori sites.
	Greeting, Jimbo. I find you seldom replied to the comment on your talk page on meta-wiki, you may want to leave a redirect there to here? ] 16:29, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

			], standing beside a collection of Maori carvings, including two fire-screens, carved by her father Albert Percy Godber]]
	== ''The Signpost'': 20 November 2023 ==
			I'm sorry I haven't been able to work the draft up enough to get it admitted to mainspace. It does make me wonder about what we do and don't include, our notability criteria, Articles for Creation (AfC) process, and collaborative ethos. Thanks so much for any help or guidance you can offer! Have a great 2025 and beyond. Thanks again. ] (]) 17:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
			:If Godber is not ], which is what the draft reviewers say, then Wikipedians can't fix that. ] (]) 09:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
			::] is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? ] (]) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
			:::I dunno, but ] wrote that the draft did not show significant coverage about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject at that point. ] (]) 19:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
			]
			::::And this a request to revisit his finding. We have a photographer from more than 100 years ago who documented areas of New Zealand's North Island. We have his work in a National Library collection. We have his work discussed as iconic for one of his Maori related photographs. We have his work revisited in a 2018 exhibition. We have descriptions of him related to his photographs, his career, and we have the photos themselves documenting the areas industries, sites, infrastructure from more than 100 years ago. If I was satisfied with the previous conclusions I would not be here. So I ask again, should we have an entry on this subject? Should we just attribute his photos where we use them to an unlinked name with no explanation or discussion of who he was? I think the answer is clear, and I wanted to hear Jimbo's opinion. I am aware of what was previously stated. Years have passed and I believe it's time to reevaluate and consider. I also think it's worth reflecting on our article creations processes more generally and how we apply our conception of "notability". ] (]) 23:33, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
			*Godber's photographs include "views of the ] including large numbers of cars traveling to ], and the ]. Another group of images relate to a holiday at the ] Homestead in ] with scenes of farm life, including ], ] sheep, and farm buildings. During their stay in the South Island Godber also took photographs of Dunedin (including the ], ], ], the ], and the Hillside Railway Workshops); ] (including the Invercargill Railway Workshops); Stewart Island, ], ], ], ] and ]. Various railway stations in Canterbury and Otago, the ], and the Rosslyn Mills. Godber was a volunteer fireman with the Petone Fire Brigade with the album including views of the building, groups of firemen, fire engines and other fire fighting equipment, and a building in Petone damaged by fire. In his work with New Zealand Railways, mainly at the Petone Railway Workshops, he took interior photographs of various buildings, including the Machine Shop and finishing benches, the engine room, lathes, boilers, and fitting shops. He also took photographs of many of the steam engines that were built and worked on at the workshops. One scene shows a group of men watching a fight. Many images show his interest in logging railways, particularly in the ], ], ] area. Scenes of logging camps, various methods of transporting logs including bullock teams, logging trains, and dams created and then tripped to send logs down by river, and timber mills. Other topics covered in Godber's photographs are scenes at Maori ] and meeting houses, with some of the people identified; Maori carving and rafter designs; beekeeping, and gold mining." ] (]) 23:52, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
			*It's hard to choose which photos to share. Historic views areas, industries, bridges, natural features, railways and bridges, crafts. to his photos on Misplaced Pages Commons. Many already illustrate our entries on various subjects. ] (]) 00:01, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
			:: If you really want to help him, get a couple stories published about him in newspapers. Notability here will follow. ] (]) 01:23, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

			== ==
	<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2023-11-20}} </div><!--Volume 19, Issue 22--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 09:43, 20 November 2023 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
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			That doesn't sound good. From '']''. ] (]) 09:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	== Another Endowment question ==

			:Being discussed at ]. ] (]) 10:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	Currently the Foundation has about $255 million in cash and short-term investments, while the Endowment has about $119 million in long-term investments. Should the Foundation transfer some to the Endowment to presumably secure a larger and safer return? If so, how much? Presumably this would be done after getting the Endowment out of Tides; so my third question is when is that expected to occur? ] (]) 19:14, 21 November 2023 (UTC)11
			::Thanks! ] (]) 11:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	:We are entirely out of Tides. details the current investment policy.
			::Also discussed at ] and ]. ] (]) 19:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	:The question of moving money from WMF and into the endowment is different from the question of how money currently with WMF should be invested. I think there's merit in the idea of periodically moving money out of WMF and into the Endowment, with the caveat that we shouldn't run a high risk that WMF might need to dip into the Endowment for an emergency caused by running too short a balance within WMF. I think that using the Endowment to cover shortfalls shouldn't be something that anyone gets comfortable with.
	:The question of whether all of WMF's money that's currently in cash and short-term investments should stay that way is also valid. One way that I would approach the question is to start to match the duration of some of the investments to the expected timeline of expenditures, as opposed to simply blindly moving into equity or longterm bonds. (When interest rates rise, long term bonds get crushed, but if the intention is to hold some securities to maturity to meet some expected future expenditure, the the interest rate risk is less relevant. Measures of duration serve a similar function.)--] (]) 15:58, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
	::Jimmy, regarding the ], I note that the Investment Policy you linked us to mentions this:<blockquote>"The Wikimedia Endowment was invested through the Tides Foundation, which is committed to achieving an impact-driven portfolio. The Wikimedia Endowment is invested only in funds that had been reviewed by Tides and meet its environmental, social, and governance (ESG) factors."</blockquote>Does that mean that the Wikimedia Endowment continues to invest '''ONLY''' in Tides-approved ESG investments? If so, why?! Wikimedia has its own unique objectives, specifically pertaining to the Open Knowledge movement. Although impact-driven investing generally results in lower returns and can have higher risks, it sounds like the WMF Endowment has already committed to that in its Investment Policy. Let's take that as a given; however, an impact-driven portfolio consistent with the goals of the Open Knowledge movement are different than those of Tides. Tides is a donor-fund aggregator whose mission aligns with its investment policy:<blockquote>“Tides conduct its investment management process with the recognition that its responsibility includes not only the traditional goals of maximizing return and minimizing risk, but also a focus on utilizing its investment capital to achieve a world of shared prosperity and social justice, founded on equality and human rights, a sustainable environment, healthy individuals and communities, and quality education.”</blockquote>WMF Endowment's impact-driven investing should '''NOT''' be exclusively determined by the goals and values of Tides as stated above. '''We are not a Tides subsidiary.'''
	::I see that the choice of investment holdings is based on Morningstar Sustainability Ratings per your linked description. Why are we using the identical percentage distribution as Tides. Was there a review conducted where that was determined to be best for our Foundation money?
	::I note that 10% of our Endowment will be invested in "funds rated a “three-E;” these funds have an ESG mandate and their lower rating may be due to companies in the fund not being covered by Morningstar analysts (especially in ex-US markets)". That doesn't sound good! Why would we want '''any''' of our money to be invested in overseas companies that Morningstar analysts don't even cover? Also, 10% of the Endowment will be invested in "funds that are not rated by Morningstar but have an ESG mandate". So, that means that as of the most current financial statement, approximately $10 million of Endowment funds will be holdings of ESG mutual funds that aren't even rated by Morningstar and another $10 million might be invested in overseas companies that Morningstar doesn't rate. An ESG mandate is not well-defined, i.e. social justice, sustainable environment, and quality education can mean one thing to Tides and something else entirely to others. It would be unfortunate if $20 million of WMF Endowment money were invested with so little control by the WMF.--] (]) 23:08, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
	:::Dear FeralOink, could we please dial down the heat substantially?
	:::Of course we are not a Tides subsidiary and it's very odd for you to point is out in '''Bold text'''. No one is behaving as if we are a Tides subsidiary, and I can tell you that at the board meetings, I have not heard any board member voice any opinion that would even remotely suggest that we should blindly defer to Tides on anything. The particular ESG ratings we use have nothing to do with Tides. They are ratings developed by ]. In terms of the specific allocations they were not determined by Tides, and continue - as the page said - to be determined (ultimately) by the endowment board: "The Wikimedia Endowment will revisit this allocation periodically to make sure it delivers appropriate risk-adjusted returns.".
	:::Now that we've got the Tides question out of the way, we can of course discuss some questions about the allocation. I don't think it is automatically a given that ESG funds will deliver a lower return (I used to believe this, but the actual evidence is mixed at best), but you seem to accept that it is something we have chosen to do. But you had a stronger question about the international component. Diversification is an important part of wise investment strategy, and investment in non-US companies is a part of that. It is just generally a fact that Morningstar doesn't have as strong coverage of non-US markets, but it isn't something that I would see as especially problematic.
	:::In my own personal retirement savings accounts, I allocate a percentage to international markets through low-cost Vanguard index funds. I think it's a reasonable thing to do.
	:::Implicit in your question, though you didn't actually ask it in this way, is whether or not we should adopted some kind of modified ESG strategy where we specifically invest in companies that are particularly aligned with our mission - let's imagine here things like open source software companies, educational resource companies who use free licenses, etc. I think that's an interesting idea although there are not likely to be any ESG ratings in existence of such a thing, nor any dedicated index funds. It would be a pretty wild departure from normal practice if we got into the business of picking individual stocks, and of course would raise all sorts of potential issues.
	:::Below, I see a question about the percentage of cash and cash equivalents, and my own personal view is that cash should probably only be held for short periods "transactionally" you might call it, as money is entering the endowment or is scheduled to depart (grants, expenses) in a reasonably short time.--] (]) 16:51, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

			Jimbo, could I ask you please to respond to from {{u\|Tryptofish}}?
	:Hello, ]. I don't think that the Endowment funds and Wikimedia Foundation funds are readily transferable, i.e. the Endowment isn't generally intended for supporting day-to-day operating costs of WMF. See :<blockquote>"During times of prosperity, the Wikimedia Endowment will serve as a springboard for growth and innovation. During tough economic times, the Endowment will help fund the most critical operations that keep the Wikimedia projects functioning.</blockquote>
			:... it's not just if you've edited about Israel-Palestine. It could be if you've edited anything about climate and fossil fuels, gender, immigration, vaccines, and of course, American politics. I doubt that they have the bandwidth to actually identify and harass every editor who could possibly be seen as editing information that goes against a MAGA POV, but they will likely find some easily identified targets, whom they will use to "set an example", as a way of instilling fear in our editing community. I fully expect that, in the coming months, {{u\|Jimbo Wales}} will be hauled before a hostile and performative Congressional hearing, much in the manner of university presidents. I hope very much that he will be better prepared than ] was.
	:Jimmy's reply to you is good, as it shows that he is cognizant of responsible corporate governance practices:<blockquote>"I think that using the Endowment to cover shortfalls shouldn't be something that anyone gets comfortable with."</blockquote>
			:Yeah, I know this is grim. But I believe the first step in dealing with this is to go into it with our eyes open, to know what we are dealing with, what motivates it. And, more than harming individual editors, the real objective of Heritage ''et al.'' is to instill fear in the rest of us. If we become too fearful to revert POV edits, they win. In a very real sense, we have to keep doing what we have been doing, and continue to be a reliable resource for NPOV information. --] (]) 18:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
	:Your point is well-taken though. I too noticed that 2023 WMF salaries and benefits total over $100 million per year, a 20% year-on-year increase, whereas server costs are merely $3.1 million, up from $2.7 million last year.--] (]) 23:08, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
			] (]) 05:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
	::{{re\|FeralOink}} What is your opinion of the optimal ratio of Foundation cash and investments to Endowment investments?

	::I also want to ask your opinion about the Morningstar ESG ratings. but I wonder how much of that is due to a circular self-fulfilling prophesy due to I'm not sure it's a great idea to have put 500 Toronto analysts in charge of such a large fraction of the world's equity and corporate debt markets. However, I used to be far more skeptical before Morningstar acquired ], back when the weights of the issues contributing to the ESG rating were whereas now they publish them on
			:Well, I fully agree that developments in terms of arguments and actions aimed at destroying trust in knowledge (and of course our specific interest, trust in Misplaced Pages) are extremely worrisome, particularly as I agree that for many who are doing it, the motive does appears to be the undermining of civic norms and democracy. I also agree with Tryptofish in a part that you didn't quote: "In a narrow sense, it's technically true that if you "out" yourself, there's no point in anyone else doing it. But once your identity is known, you become vulnerable to all of the kinds of real-life harassment that doxed people find themselves subjected to. It doesn't matter, in that regard, how they found out your identity." That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.
	<center>
			:As a side note, I don't think that the reliability of the Heritage Foundation as a source is particularly related to these despicable actions. Whether they should be considered a reliable source in some matters is really unrelated to whether they hate us or not.--] (]) 14:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
	{\| class="wikitable"
			::Suddenly ] going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. ] (]) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
	\|+ Issues driving Morningstar ESG Risk Ratings
			:::{{tq\|That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.}} Unfortunately, the scales have been inexorably slipping out from beneath the foundation's abilities or willingness to protect its volunteers for my entire wiki-career. There's no balancing force at work. The private equity community has made gadflies out of what we used to label reliable local news media; Alphabet and Meta are actively coopting precision, privacy, and the public domain, while attempting to minimize the effectiveness of good faith actors like Internet Archive. Now suddenly en.wikipedians are facing the sort of personal threats long experienced by volunteers at ru.wiki and zh.wiki. The forces now arrayed against free information don't need to be actively coordinating in order to rapidly bring us to 2+2=5 territory. Any established editor could reasonably see Western culture has been under relentless attack for a long time. Here comes the Heritage Foundation's leaks, hot off Heritage's bangup release of Project 2025, leaking articles through partisan outlets apparently intended to make it appear (in one case) the ADL's recent reliability downgrade at RSNP was anyone else's fault but the ADL's own writings and actions. The news of such activity appears to threaten the community members directly and personally. ] (]) 13:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
	! Category

	! Issue
			== ] ==
	! Contribution to ESG Risk Rating

	\|-
			Hey Mr. Wales, there's a discussion on ] about what image should be used on your Misplaced Pages entry. Figured you may want to chime in with personal opinion about the recent freely-licensed images of you that are presented, as there hasn't been much engagement there at the time of my post. <span style="background: cornsilk; padding: 3px;border:.5px solid salmon;">]]</span> 21:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
	\| rowspan="5" \| Environmental<br>50.8%

	\| Carbon - Own Operations
			== ''The Signpost'': 15 January 2025 ==
	\| 19.2%

	\|-
			<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2025-01-15}} </div><!--Volume 21, Issue 1--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 07:54, 15 January 2025 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
	\| Resource Use
			<!-- Message sent by User:JPxG@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1269316164 -->
	\| 10.3%

	\|-
			== A brownie for you! ==
	\| Emissions, Effluents and Waste

	\| 7.1%
			{\| style="background-color: var(--background-color-success-subtle, #fdffe7); border: 1px solid var(--border-color-success, #fceb92); color: var(--color-base, #202122);"
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			\|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" \| ]
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			\|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" \| brownie :D ] 19:05, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
	\| 7.5%
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	\| Environmental and Social Impact<br>of Products and Services
	\| 6.7%
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	\| rowspan="5" \| Governance<br>49.2%
	\| Human Rights
	\| 22.8%
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	\| Corporate Governance
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	\| 6.7%
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	\| 3.8%
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	</center>
			== ] ==
	::If you were ], how would you weight those issues?

	::As for Foundation staff and budget allocation, my greatest hope is they keep adding more engineers assigned to the Community Wishlist, which has been a breath of fresh air recently. I think governance issues, such as why the Foundation is committed to so much secrecy that they can't lead a letter writing campaign for the jailed Aribic Misplaced Pages admins, are far more important than staff vs. server infrastructure spending. ] (]) 04:05, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
			You're the subject on a delist FPC. Please, give us your feedback. ] (]) 01:44, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

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Albert Percy Godber

Happy New Year Jimbo!!! I hope all is well with you and your team.

Could you or your page watchers help me with Draft:Albert Percy Godber? The draft has been declined and tagged up. It was then deleted years ago. I had it restored today after I came across one of his photos. I think he and his photography are fascinating for capturing aspects of New Zealand's transportation and industrial history. His work is in museum and library collections. At least one of his photographs has been used in a book. He photographed Maori sites.

I'm sorry I haven't been able to work the draft up enough to get it admitted to mainspace. It does make me wonder about what we do and don't include, our notability criteria, Articles for Creation (AfC) process, and collaborative ethos. Thanks so much for any help or guidance you can offer! Have a great 2025 and beyond. Thanks again. FloridaArmy (talk) 17:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

If Godber is not WP:NOTABLE, which is what the draft reviewers say, then Wikipedians can't fix that. Polygnotus (talk) 09:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

user:Polygnotus is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? FloridaArmy (talk) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

I dunno, but User:Sulfurboy wrote that the draft did not show significant coverage about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject at that point. Polygnotus (talk) 19:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

And this a request to revisit his finding. We have a photographer from more than 100 years ago who documented areas of New Zealand's North Island. We have his work in a National Library collection. We have his work discussed as iconic for one of his Maori related photographs. We have his work revisited in a 2018 exhibition. We have descriptions of him related to his photographs, his career, and we have the photos themselves documenting the areas industries, sites, infrastructure from more than 100 years ago. If I was satisfied with the previous conclusions I would not be here. So I ask again, should we have an entry on this subject? Should we just attribute his photos where we use them to an unlinked name with no explanation or discussion of who he was? I think the answer is clear, and I wanted to hear Jimbo's opinion. I am aware of what was previously stated. Years have passed and I believe it's time to reevaluate and consider. I also think it's worth reflecting on our article creations processes more generally and how we apply our conception of "notability". FloridaArmy (talk) 23:33, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Godber's photographs include "views of the Hutt Valley including large numbers of cars traveling to Trentham Racecourse, and the Hutt River. Another group of images relate to a holiday at the Mendip Hills Homestead in Canterbury, New Zealand with scenes of farm life, including haymaking, merino sheep, and farm buildings. During their stay in the South Island Godber also took photographs of Dunedin (including the Ross Reservoir, Otago Boys' High School, Seacliff Mental Hospital, the 1926 Dunedin Exhibition, and the Hillside Railway Workshops); Invercargill (including the Invercargill Railway Workshops); Stewart Island, Moeraki, Tuatapere, Waiau River, Oamaru and Port Chalmers. Various railway stations in Canterbury and Otago, the Burnside Iron Mills, and the Rosslyn Mills. Godber was a volunteer fireman with the Petone Fire Brigade with the album including views of the building, groups of firemen, fire engines and other fire fighting equipment, and a building in Petone damaged by fire. In his work with New Zealand Railways, mainly at the Petone Railway Workshops, he took interior photographs of various buildings, including the Machine Shop and finishing benches, the engine room, lathes, boilers, and fitting shops. He also took photographs of many of the steam engines that were built and worked on at the workshops. One scene shows a group of men watching a fight. Many images show his interest in logging railways, particularly in the Piha, Karekare, Anawhata area. Scenes of logging camps, various methods of transporting logs including bullock teams, logging trains, and dams created and then tripped to send logs down by river, and timber mills. Other topics covered in Godber's photographs are scenes at Maori marae and meeting houses, with some of the people identified; Maori carving and rafter designs; beekeeping, and gold mining." FloridaArmy (talk) 23:52, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
It's hard to choose which photos to share. Historic views areas, industries, bridges, natural features, railways and bridges, crafts. Here's a link to his photos on Misplaced Pages Commons. Many already illustrate our entries on various subjects. FloridaArmy (talk) 00:01, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

If you really want to help him, get a couple stories published about him in newspapers. Notability here will follow. Carrite (talk) 01:23, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Scoop: Heritage Foundation plans to ‘identify and target’ Misplaced Pages editors

That doesn't sound good. From The Forward. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Being discussed at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Heritage Foundation intending to "identify and target" editors. CMD (talk) 10:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Also discussed at Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence#Edit_request and Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Heritage_Foundation_planning_to_dox_Wikipedia_editors. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Jimbo, could I ask you please to respond to these concerns from Tryptofish?

... it's not just if you've edited about Israel-Palestine. It could be if you've edited anything about climate and fossil fuels, gender, immigration, vaccines, and of course, American politics. I doubt that they have the bandwidth to actually identify and harass every editor who could possibly be seen as editing information that goes against a MAGA POV, but they will likely find some easily identified targets, whom they will use to "set an example", as a way of instilling fear in our editing community. I fully expect that, in the coming months, Jimbo Wales will be hauled before a hostile and performative Congressional hearing, much in the manner of university presidents. I hope very much that he will be better prepared than Claudine Gay was.

Yeah, I know this is grim. But I believe the first step in dealing with this is to go into it with our eyes open, to know what we are dealing with, what motivates it. And, more than harming individual editors, the real objective of Heritage et al. is to instill fear in the rest of us. If we become too fearful to revert POV edits, they win. In a very real sense, we have to keep doing what we have been doing, and continue to be a reliable resource for NPOV information. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Sita Bose (talk) 05:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Well, I fully agree that developments in terms of arguments and actions aimed at destroying trust in knowledge (and of course our specific interest, trust in Misplaced Pages) are extremely worrisome, particularly as I agree that for many who are doing it, the motive does appears to be the undermining of civic norms and democracy. I also agree with Tryptofish in a part that you didn't quote: "In a narrow sense, it's technically true that if you "out" yourself, there's no point in anyone else doing it. But once your identity is known, you become vulnerable to all of the kinds of real-life harassment that doxed people find themselves subjected to. It doesn't matter, in that regard, how they found out your identity." That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.

As a side note, I don't think that the reliability of the Heritage Foundation as a source is particularly related to these despicable actions. Whether they should be considered a reliable source in some matters is really unrelated to whether they hate us or not.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Suddenly ANI going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face. Unfortunately, the scales have been inexorably slipping out from beneath the foundation's abilities or willingness to protect its volunteers for my entire wiki-career. There's no balancing force at work. The private equity community has made gadflies out of what we used to label reliable local news media; Alphabet and Meta are actively coopting precision, privacy, and the public domain, while attempting to minimize the effectiveness of good faith actors like Internet Archive. Now suddenly en.wikipedians are facing the sort of personal threats long experienced by volunteers at ru.wiki and zh.wiki. The forces now arrayed against free information don't need to be actively coordinating in order to rapidly bring us to 2+2=5 territory. Any established editor could reasonably see Western culture has been under relentless attack for a long time. Here comes the Heritage Foundation's leaks, hot off Heritage's bangup release of Project 2025, leaking articles through partisan outlets apparently intended to make it appear (in one case) the ADL's recent reliability downgrade at RSNP was anyone else's fault but the ADL's own writings and actions. The news of such activity appears to threaten the community members directly and personally. BusterD (talk) 13:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Jimmy_Wales#Newer_2024_image?

Hey Mr. Wales, there's a discussion on Talk:Jimmy_Wales#Newer_2024_image? about what image should be used on your Misplaced Pages entry. Figured you may want to chime in with personal opinion about the recent freely-licensed images of you that are presented, as there hasn't been much engagement there at the time of my post. Barnt Toust 21:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC)