Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 17:12, 14 September 2015

Template:Vital article

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Biography: Arts and Entertainment / Core This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as Top-importance). This article is listed on the project's core biographies page. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. France Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Philosophy: Philosophers / Social and political / Modern Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Misplaced Pages.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Associated task forces: /  Philosophers Social and political philosophy Modern philosophy Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Politics Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Christianity: Catholicism Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Catholicism (assessed as Low-importance). Template:WP1.0

Archives

Archive 1 (2002—2008) Archive 2 (2010—2014)

Slavery

Jimjilin, this is an allegation and your citation is hardly a one liner about Voltaire's view on slavery, can you arrange something better? Bladesmulti (talk) 01:23, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I provided two quality sources, what's the problem? Jimjilin (talk) 15:19, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

How he was aware of Voltaire's view about slavery? He has provided no citation for such info. You had added a quote, I had replaced with the correct one, in which Voltaire is trying to tell that climate almost no effect on race. Bladesmulti (talk) 17:02, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

My second source goes into more detail: Jimjilin (talk) 18:39, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I have reinserted it. I have read that he had mixed views about slavery, I would probably write about it too. Bladesmulti (talk) 17:43, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you.Jimjilin (talk) 18:39, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

1. Miller, Christopher L., The French Atlantic triangle: literature and culture of the slave trade (2008) p.73

Voltaire on religion

I reorganized the section about Voltaire's philosophy, splitting it in two. It basically focuses on his views of various religions. Someone had added this sentence and I didn't know what to do with it:

Voltaire admired the Scottish Enlightenment for its uniquely practical branch of humanism: "We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation".

I feel that Islam still gets an overkill of treatment, mostly negative, but I didn't know what to do about it, so my edit was largely just moving subsections around. But I just heard from Bladesmulti that the section had been transwikied from French Misplaced Pages and in fact cites unreliable sources.

1. Barroso, José Manuel (28 November 2006). "The Scottish enlightenment and the challenges for Europe in the 21st century; climate change and energy". Enlightenment Lecture Series, Edinburgh University. I will try to show why Voltaire was right when he said: 'Nous nous tournons vers l'Écosse pour trouver toutes nos idées sur la civilisation' .
2. "Visiting The Royal Society of Edinburgh ..." The Scotsman. 4 June 2005. Scotland has a proud heritage of science, research, invention and innovation, and can lay claim to some of the greatest minds and greatest discoveries since Voltaire wrote those words 250 years ago.

Someone added stuff about Voltaire's influence on Edward Gibbon saying that Christianity contributed to the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. Don't know if this is true or even relevant. Qzekrom (talk) 00:28, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

It cited unreliable citations before, later they were changed by some of the other users. Your analysis is probably correct if this change is not about whole Christianity but only Roman Empire. Bladesmulti (talk) 02:30, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

• Voltaire is not primarily notable for his views on religion, and much less for his views on Islam. Focusing more than a line or two on this is clearly undue weight.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 03:12, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

I actually had -, and they recovered it. Section used to look much worse in those days, full of primary citations. Bladesmulti (talk) 03:20, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Voltaire most definitely is widely known for his views on religion. Most of his political authorship focuses to the greatest extent on criticism of religion, Catholicism in particular, but all intolerance and prejudice stemming from religion in general. Alongside aristocracy, he saw the hierarchy of religion as the main proponent of ignorance and oppression in his days, and he was himself widely read in theology. In Peter Gays classic work on The Enlightenment, Voltaire is the person featured most prominently in the first volume (which deals with Enlightenment philosophes views on religion). Also he does frequently mention Islam. In his Treatise on Tolerance he mentions Islam favourably compared to Catholicism. The same occurs in his Philosophical Dictionary. It was not necessarily meant to be taken seriously, as it was one of his favourite dialectical methods to compare what was then considered barbaric with what was then considered civilised, often in favour of the former, to shock his readers into reconsider what was thought as of established truths. --Saddhiyama (talk) 12:35, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

@Maunus, Voltaire's Candide ridicules religion, theologians, governments, armies, philosophies, and philosophers. Of these elements, Voltaire's ridicule of religion is perhaps universally understood by all readers, regardless of experience. Most peoples interaction with Voltaire's written work is via Candide. 96.28.43.27 (talk) 01:18, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Jettison section - The Drama Mahomet

Move the section "en bloc" to a new section in Main article:Mahomet (play). 96.28.43.27 (talk) 16:49, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Manichaeism & Atheism & Humanism

An IP editor has put a lot of effort into adding a section entitled "Manichaeism & Atheism & Humanism" to this article. However upon inspection of the sources, it seems that it is actually a piece of original research. The theory of Voltaire and Manichaeism is put together by using primary and non-related secondary sources by the editor in question and is not something that has been proposed by any notable scholar on the subject (at least not any that is cited in that section).

I have deleted of the entire section on account of the blatant WP:OR and WP:SYNTH violations it constitutes. If the editor in question insists on including the information about the theory of Voltaire and Manichaeism, Atheism and Humanism, they will need to find some reliable secondary sources that explicitly sources the claim that that was Voltaires opinion. --Saddhiyama (talk) 11:49, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Freemason in the lead

I took out the word "freemason" in the lead's first sentence. It currently reads: "Voltaire was a French Enlightenment freemason writer, historian and philosopher..," which is awkward. The phrase makes it sound that he was either an Enlightenment freemason or a freemason writer, neither of which makes sense.. His status as a freemason does not seem important enough to be placed so early in the article.Purplethree (talk) 16:55, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Candle and the sun

This source says that Voltaire once said, "They are fools ... who light a candle to look at the sun." Where will it fit here? Kailash29792 (talk) 06:41, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Soham321, where will it fit? Kailash29792 (talk) 04:36, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I am not sure, but definitely not in the 'Appreciation and Influence' section. Secondly, your source is a magazine article written by a journalist. We are not informed from where this journalist is taking this quote from. Is it from some book or article by Voltaire? Some letter? Something said in a conversation? To keep high standards for the encyclopedia, sources used for historical figures like Voltaire should be authoritative. Like a historian, for example. Preferably an eminent historian who is considered an authority on the subject. Soham321 (talk) 05:39, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

modified edit summary

After deleting some material from the main article i wrote in the edit summary of my edit: the source says that Voltaire's letter to the Pope offering to dedicate Mahomet to him was not an act of standing by his work but a bid to win admission for himself to the French Academy.

This edit summary should have been: the source says that Voltaire's letter to the Pope offering to dedicate Mahomet to him was a bid to win admission for himself to the French Academy (the source does not say that it was an act of standing by his work). Soham321 (talk) 02:44, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Voltaire's remains

I just deleted this edit from the main article: A widely repeated story, that the remains of Voltaire were stolen by religious fanatics in 1814 or 1821 during the Panthéon restoration and thrown into a garbage heap, is false. Such rumours resulted in the coffin being opened in 1897, which confirmed that his remains were still present.

The reason for the removal is that the 1967 book of Will Durant titled Rousseau and Revolution is explicitly contradicting the assertion of the 1898 NY Times article. In the section Voltaire and Rousseau in the main article, the last sentence is this one: In May 1814, during the Bourbon Restoration, the remains of Rousseau and Voltaire were secretly retrieved from the Panthéon by some religious fanatics, and buried in a dumping ground near Paris; the remains are now untraceable. Soham321 (talk) 21:08, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

References

1. "Voltaire and Rousseau, Their Tombs in the Pantheon Opened and Their Bones Exposed", The New York Times, 8 January 1898

Unfair Criticism?

The Views on Race and Slavery section contains the following material:

According to William Cohen, like most other polygenists, Voltaire believed that because of their different origins blacks did not entirely share the natural humanity of whites.

In my opinion Cohen's view should be removed from the main article on the ground that Cohen is not substantiating his claim by giving reference to Voltaire's writing when making this claim. We can re-add Cohen's claim if relevant reference to Voltaire's writing can be given. It is also significant that Cohen seems to be the only writer making a serious charge of "racism" against Voltaire. Had Voltaire been a "racist" one would have expected other writers to make note of this. But that does not seem to be the case. Soham321 (talk) 03:00, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Cohen is right. Voltaire expressed some very racist views. For example, from his Essai sur les moeurs:

"t ils n’ont d’homme que la stature du corps, avec la faculté de la parole et de la pensée dans un degré très éloigné du nôtre. Tels sont ceux que j’ai vus et examinés." (And they are not men, except in their stature, with the faculty of speech and thought at a degree far distant to ours. Such are the ones that I have seen and examined.)

and this from Romans:

"C’est une grande question parmi eux s’ils sont descendus des singes ou si les singes sont venus d’eux. Nos sages ont dit que l’homme est l’image de Dieu: voilà une plaisante image de l’Être éternel qu’un nez noir épaté, avec peu ou point d’intelligence! Un temps viendra, sans doute, où ces animaux sauront bien cultiver la terre, l’embellir par des maisons et par des jardins, et connaître la route des astres il faut du temps pour tout." (It is a serious question among them whether they are descended from monkeys or whether the monkeys come from them. Our wise men have said that man was created in the image of God. Now here is a lovely image of the Divine Maker: a flat and black nose with little or hardly any intelligence. A time will doubtless come when these animals will know how to cultivate the land well, beautify their houses and gardens, and know the paths of the stars: one needs time for everything.) Carlstak (talk) 14:08, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

You are not permitted to yourself give references to Voltaire's writings to show that he was a racist. As per WP guidelines you have to use secondary sources (which in turn refer to Voltaire's writings) if you wish to show him to be a racist. This is necessary so as to avoid the Fallacy of quoting out of context. I have a lot more to say on this; will get back to this argument soon. Soham321 (talk) 05:42, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

You are quite mistaken, Soham321. This page is not the article, and primary sources may be used there with discretion to illuminate references to secondary sources. Voltaire's racial attitudes have been a subject of much discussion among scholars. Here are several refs that substantiate Cohen's point:

"Of all the major Enlightenment thinkers, Voltaire was virtually alone in maintaining unequivocally that “the race of Negroes is a species of men different from ours... The Negro race," he writes, "is a species of men as different from ours as the breed of spaniels is from that of greyhounds."

"Thus Voltaire said of blacks that their intelligence was "far inferior," that "they are incapable of great attention," and that they had only "a few more ideas than animals."

"By the time that Voltaire composed this text in 1734, his fixist, polygenetic view of humankind was already set in stone. During the next three decades, however, Voltaire would be forced to think through this stance on multiple occasions as developments in the life sciences explicitly tested his convictions."

"Both Bennett and Bloom want African, Hispanic, and Native Americans to cherish and study the works of Western philosophy, yet Bloom and Bennett are asking us to ignore Voltaire's racist viewpoint:

"If their understanding is not of a different nature than ours it is at least greatly inferior. They are not capable of any great application or association of ideas, and seem formed neither for the advantages nor the abuses of philosophy." Carlstak (talk) 16:49, 14 September 2015 (UTC) You are quite right about having the right to use the primary source on the talk page. I was pointing out that you can't make racism claims in the main article by relying on primary sources. I have more to say on this. Will ping you when i make my comment. Soham321 (talk) 17:12, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

References

1. ^ William B. Cohen (2003). The French encounter with Africans: White response to Blacks, 1530–1880. Indiana University Press. p. 86.
2. Voltaire (1835). Jean-Antoine-Nicolas de Caritat marquis de Condorcet (ed.). Oeuvres complètes de Voltaire: Essai sur les moeurs. Annales de l'empire. Chez Furne. p. 417.
3. Voltaire (1867). Romans. A. Le Chevalier. p. 234.
4. Justin E. H. Smith (30 June 2015). Nature, Human Nature, and Human Difference: Race in Early Modern Philosophy. Princeton University Press. pp. 236–237. ISBN 978-1-4008-6631-1.
5. Anthony Appiah; Henry Louis Gates (2005). Africana: The Encyclopedia of the African and African American Experience. Oxford University Press. p. 699. ISBN 978-0-19-517055-9.
6. Andrew S. Curran (15 August 2011). The Anatomy of Blackness: Science and Slavery in an Age of Enlightenment. JHU Press. pp. 141–142. ISBN 978-1-4214-0150-8.
7. Haroon Kharem (2006). A Curriculum of Repression: A Pedagogy of Racial History in the United States. Peter Lang. p. 65. ISBN 978-0-8204-5663-8.

References

1. In his book Cohen does not give any reference to Voltaire's writing to substantiate his claim that "More commonly polygenists argued, as did Voltaire, that blacks, because they were separately created did not fully share in the common humanity of whites".

• All unassessed articles
• C-Class biography articles
• C-Class biography (arts and entertainment) articles
• Top-importance biography (arts and entertainment) articles
• Arts and entertainment work group articles
• C-Class biography (core) articles
• Core biography articles
• Top-importance biography articles
• WikiProject Biography articles
• C-Class France articles
• Top-importance France articles
• All WikiProject France pages
• C-Class Philosophy articles
• Mid-importance Philosophy articles
• C-Class philosopher articles
• Mid-importance philosopher articles
• Philosophers task force articles
• C-Class social and political philosophy articles
• Mid-importance social and political philosophy articles
• Social and political philosophy task force articles
• C-Class Modern philosophy articles
• Mid-importance Modern philosophy articles
• Modern philosophy task force articles
• C-Class politics articles
• Mid-importance politics articles
• WikiProject Politics articles
• C-Class Christianity articles
• Low-importance Christianity articles
• C-Class Catholicism articles
• Low-importance Catholicism articles
• WikiProject Catholicism articles
• WikiProject Christianity articles