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Happy Montanabw's Day!

User:Montanabw has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Montanabw's day! For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian, enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Montanabw! Peace, Rlevse 01:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC) A record of your Day will always be kept here.

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:Rlevse/Today/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Awww, gee! That was really super nice! Thank you! Montanabw 04:47, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

'tis the season

Louisa Venable Kyle wrote a children's book on The Witch of Pungo --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:50, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Precious translates to the PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:03, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Improving coverage of native dance

I don't think our aims are that different here -- should we try to start a new article about native dance basically from scratch? I could withdraw the deletion nomination, and we could move the page to a new title... Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:04, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes. I'd support a move to something like Alaskan Native dance, and we could build from there. Montanabw 19:42, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Great Northern

Re your revert on Great Northern - how does the entry "One of a number of railways; see Great Northern Railway (disambiguation)" (two places above) not cover it? --Redrose64 (talk) 06:52, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Maybe put it first, it was buried in there. Montanabw 16:09, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Retrieval dates

Hey Montanabw. As you've said you're planning on a FAC, one thing I noticed in the article (which is really shaping up, good job) is retrieval dates given for paper sources. Not an issue I care much about but you will inevitably be asked to remove them at a FAC so I thought I'd note it to give you one less issue when you nominate.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 19:40, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

@Fuhghettaboutit:Hmmm. If it were google books, I'd agree with you. But here, all were versions accessed online, and sometimes we have news articles corrected and changed after the fact, (plus I'm already having dead link problems) so I think I should keep the access dates. Basically, I have some folks saying I should use "citenews" for the papers, even when accessed online, others saying use citeweb, frankly, I usually just do whatever the formatting gods ask of me in any given week because it changes... Thoughts on the deeper issue hers? Montanabw 19:51, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

As I said it's not an issue I get excited about. But at every FAC/GA I've been asked to remove them. Agreed: it's sometimes quite unclear whether a newspaper's website story is actually just a digitization of what was printed, and so when that's unclear it seems an accessdate is useful. When it is clear, such as, for example, the Wall Street Journal cite, the accessdate is harmless surplusage – again, not my issue; just raising it as an anticipated issue for you and maybe I'm wrong about that. As for cite templates, no one should ever give a damn which you are using so long as it gives consistent and properly formatted output the same as any other template used. A true issue of form over substance.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 20:04, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

When I took Mucho Macho Man to FAC, it survived with them, as did Oxbow. I got smacked for some inconsistent referencing, but that was fair. So far, so good, but I'll keep the possibility in mind. Montanabw 20:30, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Prep 3

Hi, I didn't realize you were filling Prep 4 at the same time. When I went to copy and paste the ones I chose, I found you had already used them. I'm stopping editing Prep 3 now. There are quite a few good hooks available, but since I approved them, I couldn't promote them. Best, Yoninah (talk) 23:25, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

@Yoninah: Tell me which ones you approved and I can promote them. I'm done with prep 4 now. Would you be so kind as to promote nasal strip for me? Montanabw 23:29, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. I approved:

• Template:Did you know nominations/Rahul Shewale
• Template:Did you know nominations/T. K. Bellis
• Template:Did you know nominations/Matthaios Kofidis
• Template:Did you know nominations/Justina Ford (she'd be good for a picture slot)
• Template:Did you know nominations/Mischief Makers

I swapped one of the two India hooks that you put in Prep 4 with something else. Hope that's okay. Soman is really busy lately!

Do you want the picture slot in Prep 1 for nasal strips, or will any slot do? Yoninah (talk) 23:40, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

It's a good picture. It's going in the first slot. Yoninah (talk) 23:43, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Yay for pictures. I'll see if I can promote some of these others to finish up prep 3 for you. I think the preps will all be full then. Montanabw 23:52, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

You have 2 India hooks again in Prep 3. Yoninah (talk) 00:03, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

I spoke too soon :). Keep up the good work. I'm going to bed. Yoninah (talk) 00:04, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Heh, tons of stuff from everywhere but the USA lately. Also tough to find enough stuff without images, I had to promote a couple without pics to get these sets done. Montanabw 00:05, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	Thank you for your efforts to fill out the prep areas and tackle the backlog at WP:DYK. v/r - TP 06:25, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Troika (driving)

Good morning, Montanabw. I would like to ask you a question about one of my edits, that you reverted, on the article Troika (driving). I'm curious about the reason why you cancelled this edit. Is this because there is a YouTube link as a reference? Regards — KiwiNeko14 _(Meow) 09:12, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

• Diff link:

Two reasons, one is that the material is irrelevant WP:TRIVIA, and once people start adding pop culture references, the lists grow to endless proportions. The second is that the clip is proof for a cartoon rendering of a troika appearing in that clip, but as such it's pretty much WP:OR. YouTube can, in some cases, be used as a reference source, for example, a news story about troikas, perhaps, but it was mostly the trivia aspects that I was concerned about. Montanabw 16:45, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Natalia Poklonskaya

Hi, I saw the tick you gave it yesterday. I also saw that Storye Book has made an impressive effort to approve all the nominations that have been lying around since March. I'm just a bit wary to start promoting all these hooks, because of the reams of discussion and argument that went into them previously. I admit I'm gun-shy from last month's barrage of criticism of DYK hooks both from within the project and without. I thought I'd wait a couple of days and see if anyone responds to your bold move, and if the coast seems clear, then promote it. Your thoughts? Yoninah (talk) 19:53, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Works for me, I did it a couple days ago and haven't been slapped yet, but who knows? Nothing like a dramafest to make a person gun-shy! Montanabw 19:57, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

SCOMN! Best laugh I've had all week! @Fuhghettaboutit:. You just wait, I'll cook up something ... Bwahahahahahaaaa! Montanabw 17:48, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Not only did I fake block you but I've psychically stalked you and using my powers, I've downloaded from the collective unconscious exactly what you'll be watching tomorrow at 7:00 p.m EST. Neat trick, huh? (I will be watching too:-))--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:41, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Nah I'll be reverting vandals by then, post time is 6:52, so by 6:55 I'll be living on wiki. (Note: Best to tun in no later than 6:30 pm EST if you want to be sure to catch the race; post time is, at best, an estimate! Montanabw 00:51, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Nasal strip

On 3 June 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Nasal strip, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that nasal strips are worn both by race horses (California Chrome pictured) and by human athletes? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Nasal strip. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:20, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Go, CC horse! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:13, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks all! Montanabw 19:59, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Open Range edits

Hello, You recently reverted changes I made to the open range page. Specifically, you kept in the language that says Larson-Steiner eliminated the open range doctrine altogether in Montana. I do not believe that is a correct statement of the law. I would encourage you to read the Larson-Steiner opinion again, paying careful attention to paragraphs 28 and 29, and reconsider your edit.

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.25.128.250 (talk) 21:54, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

The Montana Law Review says otherwise, but I can refine the edit to more closely match the analysis of the top legal minds in the state. Montanabw

If you provide a cite for the MLR article, I would like to read it.

thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.25.128.250 (talk) 22:19, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

I made a tweak to the article and included a link to the MLR article. The whole situation is extremely complex and difficult to summarize. Montanabw 22:30, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Chic chick

Hey Montana, I'll take "chic" at face value if only for grammatical reasons--"hippie chick cowgirl" is three (really, four) nouns in one compound; "hippie chic cowgirl" has "hippie chic", a fairly common phrase, as a adjectival phrase modifying "cowgirl". In other words, I'm giving her the stylistic benefit of the doubt. I'll get back to the DYK today or tomorrow (I'm teaching today); I do need to look closely at the sources, some of which, as you know, aren't really, well, books or printed magazines and papers. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 15:00, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. The gal has a fashion line too, so you might be right. Could also be a play on words, "hippie chick" being lingo from my generation... the article is only about start-class, but I'm already rather sick of her interview style, can't stand people who seem to talk in all caps... the real reason she gets an article from me is because I want the wikicup points, LOL! I stumbled across a song she wrote about California Chrome - the song is so saccharine it nearly sent me into a diabetic coma, but hey, she passes WP:GNG (for the video hitting #1 on CMT, if nothing else) Montanabw 16:31, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Oh, that's the winning horse, right? Remind me to buy more bourbon and pick more mint on Friday. Drmies (talk) 17:27, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

That was the Kentucky Derby drink! For the Belmont, if bourbon is your beverage of choice, then you want a Belmont Jewel. However, some claim the official drink is still the Belmont Breeze. Take your pick! Post time is about 6pm Eastern Time, but the "pregame" show will be running a couple hours out and should be worth the watch. Montanabw 17:32, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Huh. I always thought the Belmont's was a Long Island Iced Tea for some reason. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 17:35, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Before the Belmont Breeze was some godawful concoction called a White Carnation. And yes, California Chrome. Actually, he has his own drink, also with Bourbon: http://bevvy.co/cocktail/california-chrome-2014/JSl . Montanabw 17:38, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Ha, thanks for setting me straight. But that Belmont drink, no, I think I'll skip that. Drmies (talk) 20:59, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Bourbon straight up, no chaser? Montanabw 21:03, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

One bourbon, one scotch, and one beer. Drmies (talk) 21:07, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Rye > bourbon >>> beer. Sazeracs are great, as far as cocktails go. Absinthe by itself (well, it's diluted, but still) is actually also quite good, despite the fact that I'm not normally a fan of licorice. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 21:16, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

LOL! Well, you might think you're Bad to the Bone, but I'm more likely to be Lost in the Ozone Ag'in. Montanabw 21:26, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Not to be snarky ...

But your not supporting the Classical music projects attempts to have their own "style" at their articles is now going to bite us all. What that did was basically confirm that wikiprojects can't set their own guidelines on style or naming - so now... you can't use the equine project's knowledge to keep the breed names as they should be. Consider this not so much a "I told you so" but a "wish things were different" because the birds project lost out and now we've got the MOS-pushers on our backs. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:18, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Au Contraire. I'm not arguing there for wikiproject consensus, I'm arguing for 12 exceptions to WP:MOS based on individual factors. We can most certainly use our individual KNOWLEDGE of each of us on a case-by-case basis, and so no wimping out of conflict on your part, dearie. Rules are tools, they change the rules, you find new tools. Same end result. And, frankly, the classical music people's bullying of reasonable dissent, failure to AGF and refusal to budge one inch to reach consensus was what led to the result, not any inherent moral rightness for their position; bad facts make bad law. Wikiproject consensus was always a fragile platform but can still be used as a guideline - it's clearly being used to keep infoboxes out of most classical music articles. So weigh in. Montanabw 21:26, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

I already did. And "wikiproject" knowledge is already being discounted. And also any "horsie" papers or things. Someone is arguing for "American paint horse".... I've already put up examples, but it's not my fight totally. I've been involved with it ... sitewide. See Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style/Archive 156#Bird common name decapitalisation - that's what is going to be put forth as the "rule". Ealdgyth - Talk 21:34, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

See WP:CHEESE . Just make your case and keep making it. Proper nouns are proper nouns, that's not a wikiproject issue, it's an expert issue. And dammit, we are experts. TPSers who care, the shitstorm is at Talk:American_Paint_Horse#Requested_moves. Montanabw 23:18, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

(TPS) Ye Gods, what a shitshow that link is. But you should know experts don't matter when it comes to sacred texts like the MOS. Real world standards are as nothing compared to this manufactured reality... Intothatdarkness 13:59, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

What Intothatdarkness said. Nortonius (talk) 14:06, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Well, reality is manufactured by those who show up, I guess that's my take. Onward through the fog! Montanabw 23:47, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Waler horse page unit conversions

I understand your point about metric units being used in Australia, and have no objection to that coming first (though just above is a hands-inches-cm conversion that doesn't follow a metric-first conversion ordering).

My concern was only that it gives an inaccurate result - 16 stone is exactly 224 lbs, by definition, but by converting through kg first you get 223. If you want metric first, I might suggest we just do a stones-kg conversion by template, followed by a manual stones-lbs conversion, which would avoid the inaccuracy. By that same token, if you want metric-first, the hands/inches/cm conversion could have a hands-cm template conversion followed by a manual hands-inches conversion, since again the latter is fixed by definition. Russ3Z (talk) 13:47, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Well, frankly, if it matters that much to you, I don't care that deeply about it. As for hands, see my toolbox (off my user page) for ways that those who care can flip the order of things in the template, the thing has been refined to go any way anyone could ever want to take it. Montanabw

People are "who", everything else is "that" or "which", when I was taught English. When did naming an animal anthropomorphize it? MOS: Number lists one-nine, then 10; sorry about the 9.

Well, naming does in fact "anthropomorphize it." And "it" is already defined as a he or a she, also. The world is changing from when you and I might have been taught in school, as in those days the churches also taught that animals had no souls, and words like "n-----r" and such were part of a lot of people's everyday vernacular. There is room to distinguish between animals and humans without the need reduce sentient creatures to equal status with an inanimate object. Montanabw 23:45, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Countdown on Chrome, all page stalkers!

Hey all, California Chrome article and 2014 Belmont Stakes articles should be watchlisted for the next 24-36 hours. Anticipate some vandalism, whether the horse wins or loses. We have several regular editors who will make responsible edits to update the articles with race results, besides me, but be alert for people making massive content changes, after the last race, someone deleted half the article! If all else fails, revert to an edit of mine. I'm going to do a couple that I will identify as a baseline for reversion if needed. Thanks for everyone's help! Montanabw 02:02, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi again M. Thanks to you and all the other editors involved for the work in keeping up with this. It is amazing to think that only 25 (or is it 26 I am messing up the math) had passed between Citation and Secretariat and now we are on the way to doubling that number. Having watched so many TC hopes go up in smoke at The Belmont it leaves me more impressed then ever at what Secretariat did. To say nothing of the thrills of watching Alydar and Affirmed. Speaking of which when did Steve Cauthen get so old? I turn my back for a second and another decade goes flying by :-) Enjoy the rest of your weekend. MarnetteD | Talk 23:20, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, what is it with Cauthen? I'm still 18, what happened to him? LOL! I guess for 50-something he's doing OK, at least he isn't in a wheelchair like poor Ron Turcotte. Montanabw 23:24, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Writer's Barnstar
	Too bad California Chrome didn't win, but terrific work on the article, and one way or another, it looks like it will be an FA pretty soon. Thanks again for your hard work! Go Phightins! 23:03, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

You folks have all been great. Your help is appreciated! Keep vandal watching for a couple hours, this is the peak of the hits. Montanabw 23:08, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Tonalist

just some Wikignome edits. the adjective form of tonalist, while widely used, should, i believe, be trumped by the proper noun use in this case. I am a complete newcomer to editing horse articles, but i like to try my hands at new subjects, and to make sure little details are corrected. thanks for noticing. i remember secretariat. this race today was very exciting, and sad for this Cali native. but, hooray to the winner! hope he gets an apple.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 23:39, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

You're doing great. Go ahead and swipe @Tigerboy1966:'s default style for the article, see, for example, Wicked Strong. Needs an infobox, even if not all the data is in it yet, Tigerboy usually does the pedigrees 'cause he's good at it. Go to Equibase.com and type in the horse's name for his racing record. Montanabw 23:42, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

err sorry but I already created Tonalist (horse). Tigerboy1966  23:46, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Can we merge and redirect? To one or the other? Montanabw 23:49, 7 June 2014 (UTC) Follow up: If we can use just "Tonalist," I think that's great, but I want to be sure we have no WP:PRIMARY fights with anyone - a tonalist is a type of art painting, right? Montanabw 23:53, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Please feel free to merge and redirect. It's 1am in Britain and I'm off to bed! Tigerboy1966  00:00, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

YOu are a trouper! Thanks for the quick work! Montanabw 00:04, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

California Chrome

Hi, disappointing results today. Just wanted to note that you mentioned that California Chrome lost, and how, in the lead, but didn't source it. Yoninah (talk) 00:17, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Heh, heh, heh, I'll get sources up as soon as Equibase publishes their damn chart! (Chewing fingernails, ripping hair). Montanabw 00:23, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Just wanted to give a big shoutout to everyone who helped keep an eye on things today, and especially a tip of the hat to @Go Phightins!: For putting temporary semi-protection on the article BEFORE the race and saving us all from an onslaught of trolls - the article got 79,000 hits on Belmont day! Whew! Montanabw 06:45, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the pony! (Can't wait to ride it!) Yoninah (talk) 12:30, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the lovely pony! :) DBaK (talk) 16:37, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Project

Thanks for the feedback around the horse racing project. im only editing here (after my initial excitement watching the race) because you were kind enough to award me with a pony! That seems to have inspired me. that also increases my ability to assume good faith and be bold, and to also accept criticism or reversion without rancor. if anything i attempt is off base somehow, let me know. I dont know who is keeping the project articles assessed, but thats hard work, and deserves credit. many projects dont keep up with it.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 16:19, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

We'd love to have more help both at WikiProject horse racing and WikiProject equine (WPEQ). Feel free to pop by and sign up for either or both projects, between them there are about 12,000 articles (9,000 in horse racing alone). We tend to assess most articles in both projects as "low" unless there is some real clear justification for a higher rating. We also have many stubs in need of expansion. Both projects have active members willing to help! Montanabw 18:11, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Re...

This ... I'd say not all TC winners are "high" importance, but some are. SS, Affirmed, War Admiral, Secretariat, Citation, and possibly Count Fleet are definitely high as they went on to have a big breeding influence. Omaha maybe. Sir Barton, no. Assault, no. Whirlaway and Gallant Fox, maybe but probably not. Ealdgyth - Talk 19:16, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

That's my thinking too. I'd say that if there is a push to reassess, we should take it up at WP Horse racing; those are some really nice folks over there these days and they've been quite reasonable and thoughtful. You think Slew can be justified as high due to his influence as a sire, I'm OK with that. Montanabw 19:36, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

I would expect high importance to be restricted to horses who have had a significant impact beyond their own country over a long period of time (several generations) or who have had a very big cultural impact. Tigerboy1966  19:44, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

So, besides Eclipse, the foundation stallions and such, what would be other examples, vis-a-vis, for example, Seattle Slew or other Triple Crown winners? I think Ealdgyth is correct as to it's a case-by-case basis, but where would you rank, say, Secretariat or Citation, and would there be horses of equivalent importance in the UK that we Yanks could look at to see what we think? Montanabw 20:32, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Mad Weekend

This been one of the busiest weekends ever. Apart from all the issues relating to the "Big Two" races, which attracted lots of well meaning new editors as well as a few outright trolls, we have had to do updates for lots of top horses including Princess of Sylmar, Beholder, Just A Way, Cirrus des Aigles, Palace Malice etc. The French also saw fit to run their biggest hurdle race of the year on the same weekend. I even managed to forget my nephew's birthday, and much grovelling ensued. If it wasn't so much fun I'd complain! Tigerboy1966  20:02, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Heh, forget family in favor of horse racing and wikipedia? Sounds normal tome! I was so grateful to GoPhightins! for putting semi-protection on California Chrome, that article got more hits than the Belmont Article did. And not one troll edit and only a few editors, those solid. Didn't have to revert a thing, which is lucky because the article for poor Victor Espinoza got hammered a bit, though it could have been worse. Montanabw 20:35, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Templeton Thompson

On 9 June 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Templeton Thompson, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Templeton Thompson combines her interests in horses and country music in songs such as "When I Get This Pony Rode"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Templeton Thompson. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:03, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

I'll confess to being mildly embarrassed about creating that one, as I am still recovering from the diabetic coma into which the saccharine tone of her tunes placed me, but what the heck, I have a small soft spot for novelty country music tunes and ones with funny hooks. ("She got the gold mine, I got the shaft") Montanabw 18:30, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Horses on Mars

There is currently a refdesk thread proposing, well, Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Science#Horses on Mars. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:45, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

OH! I am so on that one! Too good to miss! Thanks! Montanabw 02:29, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Stock horse

Thanks for suggesting i look at it. i feel it is an article, and a potentially great article, and the list aspects are minor. PS this work on horse articles is getting me interested in the human/horse partnership, as a parallel to the human/dog partnership. I will probably actually READ an article on horses that touches on this. wow, reading an article....Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:49, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

LOL! I appreciate your graciousness and care as you look over the organizational issues that have languished a long time around here. Too few horses to pull too many wagons, if I may stretch the metaphor -- to the breaking point... heh, heh, heh...! Domaybe ping WT:EQUINE if you want to do anything terribly drastic, just to avoid reinventing the wheel; there is some project consensus on certain issues that is quite long standing, some of which solved yucky edit wars that we'd like to keep solved... ;-) Montanabw 05:53, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Pony

Thanks! I always wanted a pony. :) Stylteralmaldo (talk) 19:43, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

One last cute article

I found this snippet that briefly gives a glimpse into the Martin's lives. It turns out that Mrs. Martin knows a little something about horses.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/horseracing/27898147-419/chicagoan-california-chrome-co-owners-fine-in-background.html

I'm sorry about California Chrome as well. Racing luck does figure into it. I think he would have gotten the Crown but things to happen. He is a great athlete.

The Belmont was completely filled. We couldn't get out of the parking lot for several hours.

greensodagal (talk) 17:50, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Oh LOL! Asimov fans! Hari Seldon rocks! Great story! Thanks User:greensodagal. I have an acquaintance here in Montana who actually flew to NYC for the weekend to see the Belmont, she also said the place was a disaster to leave, I think she was trying to take public transportation, which was a nightmare as well. Poor planning by someone. Montanabw 17:23, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

GAN

Hi, I am very sorry to do this, but I have some important things going on in real life Thursday and Friday, and I ought to be preparing today and tomorrow, but since I don't trust myself not to get engrossed, I am going to have to take a forced wiki-break from now until Friday afternoon, at which point I will resume the GAN. Again, sorry, but I need to handle the real life matter. Thanks for understanding. Go Phightins! 00:53, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

No worries, 'User:Go Phightins!! Being able to step away from "teh wiki" to manage real life is a sure sign of sanity! Montanabw 17:24, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

California Chrome

I know you are active in editing California Chrome. Are you aware of the cite error? I suspect you can track it down easier than I can.--S Philbrick(Talk) 20:37, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

The bold red one? Thanks for the heads up, but ;-) If you see other errors, feel free to ping at the talk page, I'll get to it. Probably chopped a sentence that used the source. If anything else, be specific as there are almost 200 citations in the article. Montanabw 20:47, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Actually, I stumbled on to this page Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting, because an article i had edited was on it. I was able to track down the issue, because I recognized it. I tried a couple on that page where I had no history, realized it was hopeless, so was about to leave when I saw California Chrome, knew you were an active editor, and hoped you could find the problem. So the only thing I knew was that it has an error. Yeah, I guess I could have mentioned it on the talk page, but I thought of you first.--S Philbrick(Talk) 21:45, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Well hey (hay?), I'm flattered. And glad you spotted it. I have the article up for PR right now, so all fixes welcomed. Montanabw 21:50, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

On a related note, thanks for your edits too. Actually, mine were about more than the one horse. I was interested in the race and didn't want to see this information left out of the appropriate articles. But it all looks so much better now.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 16:30, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Charreada

I have restored the attribution of the author of File:Lazador insurgente Mexique.jpg in the "History" section of this article. The image presents an idealized view from 1828 of a ranchero in a heroic action. A link to the artist, a radical revolutionary, is entirely relevant. The history section is weak and should be expanded to cover the myths and history that form a large part of the appeal of modern charreada. Aymatth2 (talk) 01:06, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Feel free to expand the article, then. But the link to the artist makes no sense without such context. All I do is keep that article NPOV, which is a real challenge. Montanabw 02:21, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I had no idea there would be POV-pushing on an article like this. To me a link to the artist or publication for a picture is always relevant, as is a link to a place, event or person. Readers are likely to say "where did that picture come from?", "where is that?", "what happened then?" or "who was that person?". We should not restrict links to topics that are narrowly related to the article. If readers stray far from their starting point, that is good. (I also like to give inline accreditation to any image, whether or not it is strictly required, on principle.) Aymatth2 (talk) 02:47, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

There are huge animal abuse concerns with charreada. And equally vehement supporters. I guess it's not a big deal either way is the artist is credited. I'm more apt to be irritable when people identify photographs in a way that goes off on a tangent unrelated to the article topic, particularly where it becomes all but free advertising. Montanabw 04:48, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

O.k. - got it. The picture does show a sort of animal rights abuse, not allowed in modern competitions. The ranchero has lassoed a royalist officer in front of his troops, and will try to haul him away by the neck. The author died in 1832 and the book is long out of print, so it is not advertising. Aymatth2 (talk) 11:02, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

|

Want to start a discussion on this topic about dog names. See here why Is there any standard way of doing it? I certainly think that moving Dalmatian (dog) to Dalmatian dog is not a good idea, as it is now the Dalmatian dog could refer to any dog that is in Dalmatia, or born there, no matter what breed. Maybe at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Dogs/Dog breeds task force? Afghan Hound‎; that is one thing, a name, but Chihuahua (dog), Boxer (dog) and will soon be moved, I guess, like the Dalmatian and others, Bolonese...dog? The dog breed is called Dalmatian, not Dalmatian dog. Can't find any discussion on this move... Breed group (dog) - now that will be aproblem, for example, Hafspajen (talk) 12:40, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

FYI, I made the move, but not after researching the options and concluding that this was the best option. It sounded uncontroversial and didn't seem to be about capitalization :) so I moved it to remove the parenthetical. I think it would be good to think through the right general way to do so, while nervously hoping it doesn't tern into another bird name capitalization type discussion.--S Philbrick(Talk) 13:23, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I agree on that one Sphilbrick. But Hafspanajen means well, so I hope this can be resolved in a friendly manner. Montanabw 21:09, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for responding. Well, you see, there were a lot of different moves like this, and not you, but an other editor: Bolonese...dog, Armant dog... It was the same editor, and no consensus. And one more, Akbash dog Akita dog, Barbet dog, Billy dog???? this sounds plain silly - and no consensus . I certainly didn't see any discussion about re-naming, but there was a certain conflict here, on horse articles and cats too. Also there was no discussion on horses either, first came a mass move, reverted by Dreadstar, responded like this, see talk page later, . This will be a matter for Dog task forces, but I will not bring up your name, Sphilbrick, I promise. But this really has to be discussed. Hafspajen (talk) 13:46, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

• Rajapalayam (dog), Pumi (dog), Landseer (dog), Papillon (dog) Pungsan dog, Laika (dog breed), Karakachan (dog) Kaikadi (dog) Harrier (dog) Bakharwal dog ...OK; my head hurts. ‎ Guard dog ‎and Police dog is the only place that it should be Guard dog ‎and Police dog. Indeed.

Sigh. Also chicken, ducks, cattles pigs, and pigeons are mass- moved. Hafspajen (talk) 14:29, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi Hafspajen To be honest, I actually disagree with you on this one, but as it's an issue for Wikiproject dogs (or whatever) I'm also not touching those with a 10-foot pole. We have a unique situation in WikiProject Equine with a carefully crafted stable consensus, which is that the articles about Individually names animals get the disambiguator (horse), as in Secretariat (horse) or Eclipse (horse), but that breeds use Natural disambiguation and are titled Arabian horse, Andalusian horse, etc. (There is also a capitalization spat over some names, but I'm not discussing that issue here. So I tend to favor natural disambiguation in general and find the use of parentheses in titles to be "clunky" and awkward, best avoided where logically possible, but often not possible. Montanabw 21:09, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Well, fine. But I still think none of the above changes are correct. The breed is called Akita, not Akita dog, Bolonese, not Bolonese dog, Akbash and not Akbash dog... those changes which besides lacking consensus are just inaccurate. Hafspajen (talk) 21:14, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Here's the problem: There are Andalusian horses, Andalusian donkey, Charolais cattle, Charolais horses (now extinct, I think, but there were); Friesian horses, Friesian cattle, and so on - to say nothing of the people! In most cases, the human beings will be WP:PRIMARY or the word standing alone is a dab. So we must disambiguate, somehow. See WP:NATURAL Montanabw 21:22, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

The page you directed me to tell me: Parenthetical disambiguation: If natural disambiguation is not possible, add a disambiguating term in parentheses, after the ambiguous name. So, it is very clear, that those dog articles need the parenthetical disambiguation, so we just start putting them back where they were. Hafspajen (talk) 21:15, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Hafspajen, take it to the project. In my opinion, you are dead wrong. You also fail to understand the rules of natural disambiguaton and are misinterpreting the guidelines. You mean well, but you do not understand the issue. The use of parenthetical disambiguation was popular several years ago, and articles are moving away from it. As I said previously elsewhere, where a name is the primary form (i.e. Appaloosa), no need to add a disambiguator. But where there IS no primary use, or another thing (like an ethnic group of people ) are the primary use, then adding a natural disambiguator is the next option (i.e. Friesian horse). Only where that doesn't work, such as individual names (i.e. Eclipse (horse) ) we use parenthetical disambiguation. Do you see the progression here? As for the rest, capitalization and such, that is a huge shitstorm going on across other areas of wiki and it is an unbelievably nasty fight that you and I both (if we prefer titles in title case, not sentence case) are in the minority and I for one am only going to dig in and fight for a few examples where capitalization is an unambiguous need, (i.e. American Quarter Horse) because I am not going to win at a meta level here so long as wikipedia software treats capital letters and lower case as separate characters. Montanabw 23:03, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Well, I can't see how one can call an article Billy dog. Or Akita dog or Dalmatian dog. That is not the dog breeds name. Hafspajen (talk) 23:08, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm not arguing that; I'm just explaining disambiguation policies. What DO you think people should do with Charolais, for example? Montanabw 23:21, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

• And what DO you think people should do with article Billy dog, Akita dog or Dalmatian dog names? Give me an idea that works. Hafspajen (talk) 23:23, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

No one is arguing that it is "the name" of the breed, though in many cases "dog" or "horse" actually IS appended to the breed name by individual registries. So my suggestion is leave them as is. I admit that "Billy dog" sounds a bit ridiculous but perhaps it's proof that there may be exceptions to any general rule. Take the question to the wikiproject. And then take a nice, deep breath and step away from the horse carcass. ;-) Montanabw 03:31, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks, Montana, but I prefer to have YOU as a role model. Like the way you fight your fights. Hafspajen (talk) 09:48, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

• Which fights? LOL! To the bitter end? Or until I throw up my hands and say, "f--- it"? Montanabw 17:53, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

• Well, mylady, haven't you noticed that you are a dangerous enemy to have? Hafspajen (talk) 18:37, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

• Moi? (looks innocent). Montanabw 18:51, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, you. Hafspajen (talk) 18:54, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

GAN

Hey, if you could look at The Boat Race 1978, that'd be great. Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:15, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Will do, stay tuned. Montanabw 18:51, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

I like. Tuned in. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:02, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

NEED HELP

Hi Montanabw, I need your help. The Black-Eyed Susan Stakes has changed their Logo for the 2013 and 2014 editions. But every time I place any logos or Artwork on wikipedia they are deleted. Apparently I am doing something wrong. Here is a url to see what it looks like. Is there any way that you could help me place the Logo on the 2013 Black-Eyed Susan Stakes and 2014 Black-Eyed Susan Stakes pages in place of the old Logo. I appreciate your help as always if you can accomplish this.--Craiglduncan (talk) 20:31, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do, usually there is a fair use rationale needed, somewhere. Follow my contribs once you see me make changes, if I screw it up, one of my talk page stalkers will no doubt help straighten things out. Montanabw 21:06, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

OK, @Craiglduncan: I think I found a couple problems. Compare what you did to what was done here: File:2014-preakness-logo.jpg for the 2014 Preakness Stakes. The first problem is that you are trying to use the 2011 logo for multiple events. I think you need to do each year's logo. Then, the second problem is when it is uploaded, add the " |image has rationale=yes" parameter in the relevant place. I did a clumsy kludge of the 2011 logo, which I hope will help salvage that one, though it could be done more elegantly if you imitate the Preakness examples. Note at Preakness Stakes itself, there is an image of the starting gate, not a logo. I think for the main article, this logo is the one you want. Also, on Flickr, MarylandGovPics is an absolute gold mine for images of Pimlico, (See Oxbow (horse) artice's images for link to Flickr account in question. The 2014 set had images from Black-Eyed Susan Day, I think ---) Montanabw 21:30, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Category:Olympic sports

• Hello. I have created a normal structure for Category:Olympic sports. You reverted some my edits. Please, note, only one row for Equestrian is in the 2016 Summer Olympics#Calendar (as for cycling, gymnastics and wrestling). Only one entry is in {{Olympic sports}}. By your logic we must include Shot put and Long jump into this category and exclude Athletics (sport) because some athletics events are non-Olympics. It's a wrong, this is category for "umbrella sports". Also categories with disciplines already included. Per WP:SUBCAT: Dressage -> Category:Dressage -> Category:Equestrian sports -> Category:Equestrianism -> already in Category:Summer Olympic sports. Totally we must remove Dressage etc. from parent category Category:Olympic sports. I think we will create Category:Olympic disciplines in future and will put that articles into it. Please revert your edits. NickSt (talk) 21:10, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

No, @Nickst: because "equestrianism" is not about the three specific Olympic disciplines any more than is running. These articles need to be linked directly to the Olympics, and there is no rule that you cannot at times have non-diffusing categories. If you want to put them in Summer Olympic Sports or later create an Olympic disciplines category, that would be fine with me. But until then, there needs to be an olympic link in those three articles. Montanabw 21:36, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

• I understand you. Please say your opinion about future categorization of Olympic sports here: Category talk:Olympic sports. NickSt (talk) 21:56, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
• By the way, there is no umbrella article about equestrian sport in generally? I found only list: List of equestrian sports. NickSt (talk) 21:59, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Equestrianism IS the umbrella article. Montanabw 22:01, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

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Your revert of my additions to Standardbred

Instead of reverting and removing the information that I added to this article, why not add to it. If you have a concern that this notable man, Daniel R. Gernatt, Sr. should not be included simply because he was not an originator of the breed, then a section can be added to the article about that, as well as including notable breeders. I go through this too much on Misplaced Pages where editors simply take out information, without trying to add to or improve it. It is continually frustrating and disappointing. Typically, then male editors remove information that the women editors have added. This is another of those situations. Daniellagreen (talk) 18:27, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

(TPS) Got news for you...trying to turn this into gender bias won't work too well. From looking at the edits in question, I'd say that Montanabw's removal was proper, as were the reasons she provided for that removal. Now if Gernatt happened to be a major promoter of the breed (or the first major promoter), that's a different story. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. I could see him being a link from a list of notable owners/breeders, maybe, but he doesn't need a long section in this article. Intothatdarkness 18:37, 24 June 2014 (UTC)