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HouseOfArtaxiad

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning HouseOfArtaxiad

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Brandmeister 19:06, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

HouseOfArtaxiad (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:AA2#Standard_discretionary_sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 8 Nov 2013 1st revert
2. 8 Nov 2013 2nd revert

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warned on 26 September 2013 by Grandmaster (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Concerning the article of Shusha, HouseOfArtaxiad was warned against edit-warring already on 25 September, but neverthless proceeded further. His editing became a concern once more on 4 November and then again the next day. Now he contributed to a suspicious activity in the Shusha article once more, ignoring the ongoing discussion at the article's talkpage and twice reverting the addition that doesn't suit him. I think a block would be warranted now.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning HouseOfArtaxiad

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by HouseOfArtaxiad

The talk page consensus was that Shushi was founded in 1428 by Armenians. Wiritng it was founded in 1752 by Persians contridicts the entire article, Brand needs to accept that. HouseOfArtaxiad (talk) 19:19, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

If anyone needs to be put under sanctions, it is Grand and Brand for their ill faith edits and obvious attempts to remove the Armenian history from the Shushi article. Grand in particular needs to be blocked for his obsession with creating a personal conflict with me for every edit I make, which violates WP:BATTLEGROUND. --HouseOfArtaxiad (talk) 16:06, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

User:EdJohnston Why does no one else get banned? And why should I get banned for that matter? You're outlook is "He didn't revert 3 times, but oh well. I've tried taking this to the talk and reporting it before anyone else. Fatbob didn't listen and the Admins didn't care. Why should I be punished for everyone else's mistakes? --HouseOfArtaxiad (talk) 20:10, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Grandmaster

There's a parallel discussion about the conduct of this user at WP:AN: Grandmaster 21:41, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Also, I think the fact that HouseOfArtaxiad claims a consensus at talk when there's clearly none shows that HouseOfArtaxiad does not understand what WP:Consensus means. Grandmaster 21:44, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

And I find the rvs cited in this report to be quite disruptive, because HouseOfArtaxiad removed a reference to a source for no apparent reason, and tried to assert as a fact only one of the versions of the foundation of the town (and not the generally accepted one), suppressing the other, in contradiction to WP:NPOV, WP:WEIGHT and a bunch of other rules. Such behavior demonstrates a failure on part of HouseOfArtaxiad to understand the core WP rules, and despite the previous warnings by admins and an ongoing discussion at WP:AN, he continues to make questionable reverts at an arbitration covered article. Grandmaster 21:57, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Hablabar

It came to my attention that Brandmeister who filed this report was actually sanctioned for edit warring in the same Shusha article where he would be banned from Arm-Az area for two years . His ban was shortened to half a year, and ended in August 2013. I find his report not only disingenuous but also an alternative way to attack his opponent(s) once the article was locked and out of reach for Brand, instead of engaging in consensus-building. Therefore, I recommend to view this reporting as filed with Unclean hands in light of Brand's own most recent and historical misconduct on the Shusha page. Hablabar (talk) 04:39, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Statement by EdJohnston

HouseOfArtaxiad has now edit warred at two articles: List of massacres in Turkey and Nazim Bey. Look at the massacres article first because it's easier to check, even though HOA only reverted twice there:

• List of massacres in Turkey: First check the talk page and notice that HouseOfArtaxiad hasn't posted there at all. Then note these two reverts:

1. No edit summary, 1 November 2013
2. "Undoing vandalism. Most of these don't have sources, and the rest are sourced to people such as Justin McCarthy, whom was declared unreliable in the talk.", 4 November 2013

One of the massacres that he removes is called 'Massacres in the Çoruh River valley', which has an academic source in a book by Robert Gewarth et al. published by Oxford University Press, “War in peace: Paramilitary violence in Europe after the Great War”. This was a massacre where Armenians are said to have participated. Another is Yıldız assassination attempt, which describes an attack carried out by the Armenian Revolutionary Federation. It's reasonable to have low tolerance for edit warring on obvious ethnic hot-button articles like this one. The other article where HOA engaged in warring is Nazim Bey.

• Nazim Bey: HouseOfArtaxiad made nine reverts here that occurred between Sept 18 and Nov 4. See the summary by User:Drmies Here:

"What a fine mess. HouseOfArtaxiad is (besides the personal attacks and false claims of vandalism) very clearly edit warring here; I just slapped a warning on their talk page. Their suggestion that the Ungor book is unreliable is based on nothing at all, and at any rate such a discussion ought to take place on the article talk page or on WP:RSN, not with some sneers in edit summaries.."

I didn't look into the claims of edit warring at Shusha, a dispute which has now led to full protection of the article by User:Ymblanter. My recommendation for a sanction is given in the admin section below. EdJohnston (talk) 20:03, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Result concerning HouseOfArtaxiad

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

The complaint doesn't make clear how these two reverts violate any conduct rule. Two reverts don't constitute edit-warring yet. As submitted, I'd close this as not actionable. In situations like this, tendentious editing is frequently a problem, but it would need a much more thorough evidence submission to establish that. On the other hand, HouseOfArtaxiad, this forum does not resolve content disputes, and therefore making any argument here based on what you think an article should contain is quite beside the point.  Sandstein  20:56, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

On a purely procedural note, no warning to HouseOfArtaxiad has been logged at WP:ARBAA2.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:24, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

User:Grandmaster left a note for User:HouseOfArtaxiad on 26 September with a link to WP:ARBAA2. This should qualify as a notification so I've logged it in the case. EdJohnston (talk) 18:02, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Based on the summary of his edit warring that I gave above, I recommend a six-month topic ban of User:HouseOfArtaxiad from AA2. I don't perceive that HOA recognizes the slightest problem with his edits. We do tolerate people coming to Misplaced Pages with a personal POV but we don't like to see it manifested in articles. EdJohnston (talk) 20:06, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

• I fully endorse EdJohnston's recommendation. That Ed doesn't recommend more severe overall restrictions is lenient and commendable. HoA should learn to play by the rules. Drmies (talk) 20:25, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

• Based on EdJohnston's analysis, which I have not followed up for myself but which appears conclusive, I agree with this sanction.  Sandstein  08:59, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

• Closing. User:HouseOfArtaxiad is banned from all topics in the scope of WP:ARBAA2 for six months. EdJohnston (talk) 01:00, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Pluto2012

It is fairly clear that there is no proven reason, nor consensus, to take any action here. Black Kite (talk) 22:43, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Pluto2012 User who is submitting this request for enforcement Ykantor (talk) 20:27, 8 November 2013 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Pluto2012 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#Discretionary_sanctions Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 31 August 2013 one of his deletion reasons is:information already in the article" . not true. it is not in the article 27July 2013 his deletion reason:"already written in the article "firmly opposed" or "opposed to any form of" means the same". Not true. It is not in the article and the meaning is totally different. 2 Nov 2013 his deletion reason:"The text in the core of the article next to this image gives the reasons". He deleted a well supported (mine) claim because he prefer the other claim. 3 November 2013 He follows articles he had never previously edited and deletes my editing for no real reason. There are more examples. 13 October 2013 He deletes my long quotes for no real reason. My long quotes are always supporting a specific sentence (at the next revision) which he does not like. 8 November 2013 reason:"Qawuqji said many things and there is no reason to focus on that one". He could have added other sentences rather than deleting a well supported text. 13 October 2013 ". he deleted a well supported edit , and returned to the previous (possibly unsupported ) version. 30 October 2013 deleted as "unrelevant". But it is relevant. 11 June 2013 He deleted since it "is already in the article". not true. Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) Warned on Date by Name of user who made warning 1 (talk · contribs) Additional comments by editor filing complaint Pluto2012 is cleverly deleting text on the verge of wp:disrupt. Each of his deletion might be considered as a "Petit Crime" only, but the accumulative effect is described as: "Their edits occur over a long period of time; in this case, no single edit may be clearly disruptive, but the overall pattern is disruptive.". His Article contribution seems to have more red color that the black one. i.e more deletion than adding text. During the last months he deleted a lot (perhaps most) of my writing. He follows me and delete my text in articles and subject he has never visited before. The result is that I am busy looking for solution rather than adding content. I know the risk of wp:boomerang (I have received it unexpectedly at the help desk and at wp:drn) , but I hardly have something to lose, since I nearly can't contribute here anyway. notes: The consensus is automatically against me, since I am the only regular Israeli editor in this articles There are many more Diff pages examples of his deletions. His deletions reasons are usually POV, UNDUE, irrelevant etc., since at a glance it might seem normal. In a talk page discussion, he may reply to my supposed claim which I have not claimed,(e.g. using the term "bands" and similar attrition tactics An admin, user:Zero0000 may come and say that Pluto is excellent While I am horrible. Please note his past biased text. I was warned and took it seriously. Ykantor (talk) 20:27, 8 November 2013 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning Pluto2012 Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Pluto2012 Disputes with numerous contributors We are many editors who are tired by Ykantor. You can read here some testimonies about his behaviour. He is not here to contribute to the project of writing a free encyclopaedia complying with WP:V and WP:NPoV. He is here to "correct" the anti-Israeli pov-pushing in the encyclopaedia. His attack here above against user:Zero0000 is another illustration of his behaviour (to be compared with what he wrote to him to get his mind : 1, 2 or 3. I don't feel like losing any more time with him. Pluto2012 (talk) 21:49, 8 November 2013 (UTC) Other testimonies and illustrations of the problem : by Aua. The answer of Ykantor is that : "Your writing here is a pure hypocrisy (...)". Pluto2012 (talk) 21:58, 8 November 2013 (UTC) Here is a good illustration of the problem generated by his strong feelings about the situation of the articles on wikipedia : when he complained because Nishidani was awarded the symbolic title of editor of the week... Pluto2012 (talk) 22:02, 8 November 2013 (UTC) Another illustration of his opinion. It can be guessed the kind of behavioural problem that this can generate on the articles related to Israel : "BTW people in the Hebrew Misplaced Pages claim that the English Misplaced Pages is a lost case for Israel." Pluto2012 (talk) 22:16, 8 November 2013 (UTC) This shows how far away he is from considering he may be the problem : "I feel the same, when Pluto goes out of his way, to articles he never previously touched, and deletes my well supported sentence. He really works hard". He doesn't just reject WP:AGF. He is really convinced the other side is not. Ykantor was welcome and a discussion patiently started with him with numerous contributors : see this archive and the next one and the one next again.... I tried to explain this to him : the principles that he didn't follow but he rejected it. I could not find the link but he went to several different places to get a confirmation that he was not obliged to add information he disagrees with... The two DRN he refers to show his obstination and the "difficulty" to reach a compromise with him : "The Arabs rejected any partition." and The Arabs initiated the War" Ykantor writes : "Can you understand why Pluto energetically oppose it? . Is Pluto obsessive against the correct term? Or I am obsessive for the correct term? Ykantor (talk) 13:02, 9 November 2013 (UTC)." That's a very good point but there is a trick. That's the story of a guy who took the highway by its exit and drive on the wrong side of this. After 5 minutes, he stops and calls the police : "I counted more than 200 car driving on the highway in the wrong direction ! You have to take action against these foolish people !" Ykantor was or is still opposed to Travellin, Aua, Nishidani, Zero0000, Nableezy, Huldra, ZScarpia, Itsmejudith, Dailycare, ... Pluto2012 (talk) 18:54, 9 November 2013 (UTC) Frustration I didn't defend myself but I want to say something about this : " articles he never previously touched, and deletes my well supported sentence. He really works hard."... When we work on wikipedia, we have to live with the fact we will never get any particular recognition for our work. On the contrary, we must also accept that we will get frustration due to the unavoidable controversies and disputes that may come from our activity. Anyway, our work is really extremely hard by itself : here is my personnal library : on the topic that is covered by the current dispute. I made and collaborated to make several articles reach the status of FA and/or to translate them from one wiki to another. On the other side, I and others are regularly targeted by contributors who do not understand wikipedia and only see in it a "powerful media" that may harm the "image of their beloved" country. (NoCal100/HerutJuram as far as I am concerned.) This situation is extremely frustrating for us. Pluto2012 (talk) 10:16, 9 November 2013 (UTC) I see you are getting everything from Myths&Facts! ;) Zero 12:50, 9 November 2013 (UTC) That's the very first book that I bought when I started having interest for the topic... I come back from very far :-) Pluto2012 (talk) 18:44, 9 November 2013 (UTC) On the same light note, thanks for allowing me too to have a bibliophilial perve into that section of your library, Pluto. I was delighted to note that Henry Laurens's 4 volume history La Question de Palestine has assumed an august centrality!Nishidani (talk) 22:01, 9 November 2013 (UTC) Going on with the problematic attitude despite a WP:DRN and this WP:A/E Ykantor is now engaged in provocation. There are already quotes in this article. It is obvious that adding all these, the way he did, with bullet points, is not acceptable and is a provocation given he was already told these quotes were contentious. I also point out that I am the main contributor of this very difficult article and that I transformed it from a "list of massacres" where "editors" fought to add one or remove another to an article gathering most of the scientifical material concerning the massacres and their impact in the '48 war... And since, it has been quiet. Pluto2012 (talk) 18:43, 9 November 2013 (UTC) The edit of Ykantor was reverted by Malik Shabbaz. This illustrates there is not just a dispute between him and I but a general problem of the way he contributes. Pluto2012 (talk) 10:13, 10 November 2013 (UTC) Quotes in citations The edit here above dating from yesterday is even more problematic given that : The way to handle quotes in citations was explained to Ykantor than 3 months ago by 3 different contributors on his talk page but he decided to go on his way. Note the provocative tone when he answers to ZScarpia who suggests to him to move the quotes on the talk page and that he answers it is a good idea and that he will add them both on the talk page and the article. He had even before already been explained that footnotes have to be concise (or even not used) : on the help desk but despite these clear advices, he asked again a few days later how to put footnotes and the end of articles and since, uses this explanation to claim he has the right to do so, not listenting the advices he asked and received regarding the problem of using these quotes. Regarding the advices of 9 June : Nyttend tells him : (...) With all that said, I'd advise you never to include a quote unless others ask for it. Ykantors answers : Thank you Charmlet and Nyttend. I accept your advice of course. However, for my curiosity only, initially (...) And he will never follow these advices. Ykantor refuses to collaborate and performs WP:FORUMSHOPPING until he gets the answers he needs in order to justify his behaviour. Pluto2012 (talk) 09:05, 10 November 2013 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000 Ykantor the complainant predicts that I will write "Pluto is excellent While I am horrible". Well, I don't know about horrible; there are worse editors around than Ykantor. Stubborn, opinionated, persistent, energetic and single-minded, but not horrible. Pluto deserves a medal for trying to moderate Ykantor's enthusiasm for rewriting large parts of Misplaced Pages to conform to a particular national narrative. I honestly don't know how Pluto finds the patience. Zero 06:28, 9 November 2013 (UTC) I protest. You already called me "horrible". I have not changed my mind, and I do not understand why this title is taken away. yours: "I honestly don't know how Pluto finds the patience". I feel the same, when Pluto goes out of his way, to articles he never previously touched, and deletes my well supported sentence. He really works hard. Yes, I am single minded. I believe that rules should be followed. When I add a well supported sentence and Pluto usually deletes it (against the rules) I do not accept it, although I have realized that no one seems to care about those rules. When Pluto says that it is true that the Arabs "rejected any form of partition of Palestine" on 1947, and few months later he energetically oppose it. When Pluto deletes a text because it is supposedly already there, but it is not there, I believe that Pluto is cheating us. I still hope that the case will continue here and not in the nearly useless wp:drn (sorry for the harsh words). I am fed up, and can not continue with these attrition tactics. Even if I will get wp:boomerang and Pluto will be warned only, it may help other editors to contribute, rather than wasting their time with Pluto consistent deletions. Ykantor (talk) 07:27, 9 November 2013 (UTC) I still won't give you "horrible", but I did forget "obsessive". Sometimes, like in your "any form of partition" obsession, I can hardly believe you are serious. You wasted so much of everyone's time on that tiny point, going on and on and on about it. Zero 12:48, 9 November 2013 (UTC) This is a good example. The term "rejected any form of partition" is well supported. Pluto could not find any RS for the opposite view i.e That the Arabs supported at least one form of partition. Can you understand why Pluto energetically oppose it? . Is Pluto obsessive against the correct term? Or I am obsessive for the correct term? Ykantor (talk) 13:02, 9 November 2013 (UTC) I got bored of it after a few weeks, but up to that point you had not found any good sources at all for it. If you found some since then, congratulations. But it is just a few words that are barely different from the standard wording that nobody disputed, yet you wasted many hours of many peoples' time over it. Why? Just because you wanted to get your own way and refused to give up. Very very unfriendly behavior. You should know that if Pluto wanted to make a case here against you it would look much stronger than your case against him. Zero 02:07, 10 November 2013 (UTC) "rejected any form of partition" is true, and the other "standard wording" is not true. It is important because of this article sentence: Zionists tend to attribute Palestinian rejection of the plan to a mere intransigence but Arabs have always reiterated that it was rejected because it was unfair. But You can't have your cake and eat it. If they rejected any form of partition, they can not say that it was rejected because it was unfair. (They claimed it was unfair, but that was not the reason for the partition rejection). BTW this "unfair" claim is a POV against Israel, but at the moment I am too busy to deal with it. There are plenty of sources. e.g. 5 sources . Not necessarily the same words, but the same meaning or even wider. Pluto himself said on 10 July 2013 "it is right and relevant to state that Palestinian Arab representatives and Arab League rejected any form of partitions".But he changed his mind and oppose it at the moment. So who is wasting our time? Could it be Pluto? You are familiar with the subject. Can you find a source that support the claim: "The Arabs accepted at least one form of partition"? In my opinion you won't find. That (together with the mentioned sources) means that the opposite term ("rejected any form of partition") is true. Ykantor (talk) 10:23, 10 November 2013 (UTC) Please put messages to other people in a different section of this page. This is my section. Your quoting is excessive and I've been meaning to ask the copyright experts to take a look at it. I'm not at all surprised if other editors think it is too much. Zero 02:10, 10 November 2013 (UTC) Sorry. You are right. I have moved it. Where are those "copyright experts "? I will directly ask them.Ykantor (talk) 10:25, 10 November 2013 (UTC) Fair use was explained here Pluto2012 (talk) 13:25, 10 November 2013 (UTC) Statement by Nishidani This may be rather late. I was called away urgently to Germany, and never look at the internet while travelling. Ykantor would be a solid and productive, rather than an aggravating editor, if he woke up to the fact that his stated belief that (a) the truth exists in history (b) the Israeli mainstream narrative, updated by revisionists, coincides most closely with this truth and (c) his job is to reframe many key articles according to this 'truth', constitutes a mechanical and ineludible dismissal of the core principle of WP:NPOV. He just cannot see that there are at least two legitimate narratives, diametrically opposed to each other, and that these articles require acute sensitivity to both sides, with narrative balancing in a neutral weighting. It is particularly difficult to do this: we accept that the main RS are by historians like Gelber and Morris who produce work of a very high quality and yet do not disguise where their sympathies lie, with their homeland. Is is very easy to fall into systemic bias through RS, unless one drums into oneself the obligation to calibrate the text to an impartial culling of the major themes that articulate each side's understanding of the conflicts of those years. I say this as someone who has disagreed quite often with Pluto in terms of private interpretations, -he is a moderate Zionist- but notwithstanding that, we almost never disagree over what wikipedia's rules require us to do, so I find it rather odd that Ykantor bundles us, or every a 'hopelessly' neutral editor like Zero, into the same camp. Ykantor doesn't understand the 5 pillars (yet). It would help is he was advised to stop going all over the place, forumshopping here or elsewhere every other day, to resolve a conflict that would die on its feet if he accepted that equally engaged editors, of long experience, have solid reasons in policy for objecting to much of the cast of his work, and that he needs to edit neutrally. Nishidani (talk) 21:55, 9 November 2013 (UTC) Statement by ykantor to Sandstein: I will appreciate it if you re consider the decision to close it without action. Concerning the routine deletion of quotes, I was told in the help desk: "...because the article is under discretionary sanctions. You may mention that status on the article talk page if the other editor continues deleting your quotes". In my opinion, the deletion of quotes (or / and the supported text), is against wp:preserve and is violating the "the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process". Ykantor (talk) 13:21, 9 November 2013 (UTC) Ykantor (talk) 07:38, 10 November 2013 (UTC) We have been told that "Pluto deserves a medal". let us extend it and have him knighted with the title "Misplaced Pages distinguished deleter". I do not mind if he gets a medal, But I do not like to be harassed by him using questionable methods. e.g. cheating, deleting my edit in an article (and subject) he has never being interested before, or deleting for no reason. If he gets medals only, with no warning about those methods, he will continue unabashed. Please. Please. While giving him a medal, just tell him to avoid those methods Ykantor (talk) 21:05, 12 November 2013 (UTC) Statement by Keithbob FYI.... there are two ongoing discussions at WP:DRN that involve User:Ykantor and User:Pluto2012 (and others). These threads contain allegations of misconduct by various parties despite reminders that DRN is a content only forum. If anyone feels the DRN discussions might be relevant to this proceeding they may view them here. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:55, 10 November 2013 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Pluto2012 This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. This complaint is just a long list of edits with which the complainant disagrees. That is what we call a content dispute, and it is outside the scope of arbitration enforcement. Discretionary sanctions are authorized for editors violating "the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process"; nothing like that is alleged in the complaint. I'd close this without action and advise the complainant to follow normal dispute resolution procedures.  Sandstein  20:48, 8 November 2013 (UTC) I see no basis for sanctions against Pluto (I didn't go back any further than the October diffs). If anything, I see disruptive editing by Ykantor, e.g., this biased and extroardinary edit already cited above by Pluto.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:15, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

TopGun

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning TopGun

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Darkness Shines (talk) 12:17, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

TopGun (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBIP

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 6 November 2013 This edit violates principle 3 "3) The use of Misplaced Pages for political propaganda is prohibited." We have academic sources which say the mission failed, TG has edit warred primary sources into the article to say it was a success.
2. 12 November 2013 He restored this 5 times, three of those after he was informed in was a violation of BLPPRIMARY, and in my removal of the content involved I explained in was a BLPPRIMARY issue. this violates principle 5 "Users who engage in disruptive editing may be banned from the site."
3. 6 November 2013 Accusations of hounding, this violates principle 1 "Misplaced Pages:Assume good faith contemplates the extension of courtesy and good will to other editors on the assumption that they, like you, are here to build an information resource with a neutral point of view based on reliable, verifiable sources." I got to that article as I was at that time heavily editing the 1971 Bangladesh genocide article, and this came up in one of the sources I used. So I did this edit. Then read the article and found the BLPPRIMARY violation.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warned on TG was a part of the arbitration request which brought about the DS, He is well aware that there are discretionary sanctions enforced in the topic area.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Removing BLP violations are an exemption under 3RR, and as TG was part of the arbitration which resulted in DS he is not in need of a formal warning. Darkness Shines (talk) 15:20, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

@Sandstein: I disagree, as we are not meant to use primary sources for statements of fact from living people, I explained this in both edit summaries and on the article talk page. As is obvious from the diffs I presented, and even if you feel it is not a BLP issue, I acted in good faith as I believe it is a violation of BLPPRIMARY. Darkness Shines (talk) 16:05, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Further to the need for a warning, I do not care what WP:AC/DS#Warnings says, you tried the same line with the AE request on Neo. You were wrong then and you are wrong now, how can you think a person who was a part of the arbitration to not know of the DS? That is just bureaucracy for the sake of it. Darkness Shines (talk) 16:09, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning TopGun

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by TopGun

• I don't think Darkness Shines has been able to convince any of the three editors discussing on talkpage about this which makes this a content dispute. There has been no violation of any content policy. I also explained my edits to which DS, instead of replying, started an editwar with multiple editors. This slow editwar has been an attempt to wikilawyer around 3RR and I count 7 reverts on the article by DS and I was not the only one who reverted him. Also the sources I used included a book by one of the commanders participating in the mission which is published material making it RS, it has reports of multiple sources confirming the statements and more than one citations back it up.
• DS has also not even attempted to resolve this issue by any single method prior to this other than editwaring content out. Which makes it pretty clear that Arbitration on this is a waste of time taking a single edit to discuss for days without any attempts to discuss when clearly DS failed to get any consensus on talk page.
• The hounding accusations stand as DS was put on an interaction ban with me which was later removed after a lot of wikilawyering going on over the ban. I totally stayed away from DS for a few months until he has followed me to yet another article he has never edited before, specifically removing content that I added or edited before. I have no other conclusion to make when there are numerous other articles to edit.
• I also don't have much time to spend on DS and his disputes. He can go and discuss it on talk page but I will not participate in any wikidrama that follows. I'll keep my response minimal here and hopefully arbitrators don't have the time to jump into a content dispute to support an editwaring editor which didn't go to any resolution method and barely even a talkpage discussion other than repeating a claim of primary source. I suppose this should WP:BOOMERANG,

--lTopGunl (talk) 12:58, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Faizan

I agree with TopGun. The user Darkness Shines is moving just without consensus. He has not given time to the article's talk page. The dispute ought to be solved by mutual harmonious discussion. Darkness Shines is edit-warring, this needs to be stopped. I don't see any violation of the Misplaced Pages's rules by TopGun. The other user ought to discuss the sources which he regards as "BLP Primary". Faizan 15:12, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Sitush

@Sandstein. I've not looked at the latest spat being reported here but it does seem overly bureaucratic to suggest that, because of a technicality, one is warned and one has a temporary ban when it is indeed the case that TopGun is familiar with the sanctions that are in force and is not an occasional contributor to the topic area that is subject to the sanctions. Indeed, TopGun has been regularly involved in the fracas and is not unfamiliar with ANI, eg: see this. I wouldn't expect someone to formally warn me of the sanctions in this area, given my past involvement, and I don't really see why TopGun should be any different: they know what they are doing, just as I do. - Sitush (talk) 16:33, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

• If Sandstein's "construe narrowly" interpretation is to prevail then would it be considered point-y if someone were to now formally warn TopGun of the sanctions? That could be done most simply by saying so at the time that this request is closed. I'm still picking myself up off the floor at the revelation that they've never been warned (or, at least, any such warning has not been logged). They're very frequently involved in disputes where the type of behaviour raised here comes into question, although I acknowledge that somehow they have not been blocked for quite a while. Their problem seems to be that whilst DS tends to get heated across a wide range of India/Pakistan related subjects (accused of bias by all sides, etc), TopGun's heatedness seems to be from a fairly consistent nationalist POV. And it is nationalist POV issues that gave rise to the creation of the sanctions in the first place. - Sitush (talk) 18:09, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Statement by RegentsPark

Looking (cursorily) at the request, I think that DS's report was unnecessary and the dispute doesn't really rise to the level necessitating sanctions and, perhaps, all that is required is that DS and TG be told that they need to seek mediation or some sort of dispute resolution. Particularly since the underlying issue seems unclear (for example, the info box and the article are inconsistent). An uneven sanction is likely to be unproductive since the underlying dispute is likely to go unresolved, an outcome that is not in Misplaced Pages's interests.--regentspark (comment) 18:34, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning TopGun

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

This topic area is subject to discretionary sanctions per WP:ARBIP#Standard discretionary sanctions. The main issue here seems to be an edit-war between Darkness Shines (talk · contribs) and TopGun (talk · contribs) about the article Operation Chengiz Khan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), concerning a 1971 military engagement between India and Pakistan. Both users have reverted each other multiple times until the article was protected from editing. It is pointless to determine who edit-warred more or who had consensus (if any) on their side; both have contributed to the disruption brought about by the edit war. In principle, this would lead to sanctions for both users. However, only Darkness Shines is listed at Misplaced Pages:ARBIP#List of editors placed on notice, while we have no diff of a warning to TopGun that meets the formal requirements of WP:AC/DS#Warnings, which forbids us to sanction them at this time. I would therefore ban Darkness Shines from the topic of the India-Pakistan conflict for a month, and warn TopGun.  Sandstein  08:56, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

In response to Darkness Shines, it is not clear to me how exactly your reverts at and similar were reverts of WP:BLP violations such that WP:3RRNO would exempt them from edit-warring. Also contrary to your assumption, the regulations at WP:AC/DS#Warnings make no exception for editors who were otherwise involved in a case previously.  Sandstein  16:02, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I am explicitly not commenting on the merits, as I have not examined the issue yet, but I just wanted to point out that, as a result of TopGun's participation in the thread where ArbCom authorised discretionary sanctions for this topic area, he can be considered constructively warned. Salvio 16:43, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Salvio here. TopGun is clearly aware of the restrictions applicable to this area, and was at the time of the edit war. Seraphimblade 17:35, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I entirely agree that this makes more sense from a practical point of view, but considering the broad reach and sometimes contentiousness of discretionary sanctions, I personally prefer to construe the authorization providing for them narrowly, sticking to the (currently valid) rules as closely as possible until such time as the Arbitration Committee updates them (which we have been waiting for a long time now). And my reading of the current rules is that they mandate an explicit talk page warning under all circumstances because they provide for no other method of warning. I'll therefore not sanction TopGun, but another administrator may of course take another view and do so nonetheless.  Sandstein  17:51, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I will like to reiterate that I am not the only editor who is reverting DS here (which tells of the consensus). And I don't see why I should be sanctioned when an editor follows me to a new article and then starts reverting in a new version without completing any kind of dispute resolution and then goes on with AE... talking of quick escalation. I have nearly a year, and counting, of edit history to prove that I have stayed away from DS mostly. Also view the admin comment on talk page where DS attempted to get the edit protected version reverted. --lTopGunl (talk) 19:59, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

• These two have been at each other's throats for months, if not years, and TopGun can clearly be considered to be aware of the discretionary sanctions. Warnings are there to make sure that editors know they are expected to be on their best behaviour, not as an arbitrary box-ticking exercise, and certainly not to allow editors who are clearly aware of the sanctions to game the system. I propose a lengthy (or even indefinite) block or topic ban for both parties. This is one of those cases where beating around the bush will not bring about a desirable outcome—they have both had plenty of opportunities to modify their behaviour to conform with the standards of decorum expected of encyclopaedia editors (including multiple short-term blocks), and they have both persisted with their battleground mentality, at the very least contributing to the level of toxicity that exists in the topic area. If the consensus of uninvolved admins is that the lack of a formal "warning" precludes TG being sanctioned under the provisions of arbitration enforcement, then I would suggest that standard admin action should be considered. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:40, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
  • HJ Mitchell, do you have some examples of Darkness Shines and TopGun doing this before? If that's happened, that should indeed factor into the severity of the sanctions. Seraphimblade 19:27, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Gilabrand

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Gilabrand

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Sepsis II (talk) 22:37, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Gilabrand (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 31 Oct Three counts of removal of the word Palestine without any reason - "Palestinian historian Walid Khalidi" changed to "Arab historian Walid Khalidi". "It is during the rule of the Ottoman Empire over Palestine that the form Kafr ʿInān (Kafr 'Anan) first appears." becomes "The village began to be called Kafr ʿInān (Kafr 'Anan) during the rule of the Ottoman Empire." and "During the period of Roman and Byzantine rule in Palestine, it was a Jewish village..." becomes "During the Roman and Byzantine era, the Jewish village of..." I'd really like to hear why he made those three edits.
2. 29 Oct Cuts out all criticism of the pro-Israeli MEMRI from its lead despite large portions of the MEMRI article focusing on criticism.
3. 14 Nov Makes the Prime Minister of the State of Palestine into the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority - a position that ceased to exist in January.
4. 14 Nov Removes information of the depopulation of Arab villages.
5. 11 Nov Article is about an Israeli settlement - edit removes statement of illegality of such settlements from the lead.
6. 4 Nov An article about a man described by David Rieff as a "pro-Israel polemicist" becomes significantly more positive about the man.
7. 6 Nov "The moshav was founded in 1949 by the HaBonim movement on land which belonged to the depopulated Arab village of Kafr Lam." becomes "The moshav was founded in 1949 by the HaBonim movement."
8. 29 Oct Read the changes to the lead, effectively, Israeli occupied becomes disputed, international rejection of Israel's annexation is completely cut out, written as fact that the area is "a rear base for Palestinian attacks on "
9. 7 Nov "Below is a list of Israeli museums. Some of them are located in the Israeli-occupied territories." Becomes "Below is a list of Israeli museums." Museums in the Occupied Palestinian territories such as Siebenberg House are on the list.
10. 24 Sept (to show this behaviour is standard for Gilabrand, not new) Mohammad Bakri goes from being Palestinian to being an Israeli Arab, cuts out lots of info on the Jenin massacre, removes the fact that Jenin, Jenin's Executive Producer was murdered by Israelis shortly after making the film.
11. 5 Nov Cuts out that the previous Palestinian residents had all fled their town due to an Israeli military attack.
12. 31 Oct"During the 1948 Arab–Israeli war, Saliha was the site of a massacre carried out by Israeli forces shortly before the village was completely depopulated. The built structures in the village, with the exception of an elementary school for boys, were also destroyed." becomes "During the 1948 Arab–Israeli war, Saliha was depopulated and many buildings were destroyed, although the elementary school for boys remained standing." Read the well sourced Saliha article to read about the massacre that Gildabrand doesn't want people knowing about.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

He's been blocked twelve times before, I think he knows about the sanctions.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I had removed some obvious foruming by an IP, who has been warned for soapboxing at Talk:Eurabia and Talk:Anti-Zionism, when Gilabrand decided to restore the rant - ]. I tried talking with Gilabrand on his talk page but he wouldn't listen. I then looked at his edits and saw that his primary goal on wikipedia, as seen by the above diffs, is to further the same POV the IP was soapboxing in favour of.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Gilabrand

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Gilabrand

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Gilabrand

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.