Misplaced Pages

In an apparent effort to collect "credit" for creating articles, Captain Assassin rushes to create redirects and articles, apparently merely copying info from IMDb. Palo Alto (2013 film) was created with one (and only one) source which directly and specifically stated that the collection of stories ("Palo Alto") was expected to be made into three films, none of which are named "Palo Alto" and none of which are likely to be released in 2013. The Winter Queen (2014 film) was created as a redirect with the target only stating that filming was expected to begin in 2011 (with 2010 sources); the IMDb page likely used has now been deleted. Just Before I Go was created as a nonsensical redirect to the director. Faced with the possible deletion of the redirect, Captain created an article based on one (and only one) source that only knows of the project as "Hello I Must Be Going". In general (supporting my IMDb as the only source theory) his film articles include substantial lists of names not found in any other source (seriously: where else do you find the editor's name when the film has just started filming?). In addressing this issue, Captain says, essentially, that he plans to find sources for the information he adds after adding it. In short, it seems Captain is frequently here to collect "credit", not to build an encyclopedia. - SummerPhD (talk) 02:49, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• I've just read the editor's talk page, and I think the problem goes well beyond creating bizarre redirects and unsourced articles about possible future films. I don't think a topic ban is going to cut it here, the real problem is a total lack of competency. I would support a topic ban if that's as far as folks are willing to go, but I'm afraid the real solution is an indef block until this editor shows some sign of understanding how things work, and how he can edit productively. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:28, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Wow, what a good idea of indefinite block, am I doing wrong now? Redirects and unsourced problems are solved already, I'm not doing that again. Now the problem is moving articles or redirects, well you can have my word and see for the next time. There will be nothing gone of you if you'll just give me some time and see if I do it again. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 05:39, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I'll be very pleased if you show me to be wrong. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:27, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I'll show you to be wrong, just give me time to show my improvements. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 09:46, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

He could probably do with tidying up his signature a bit too. 529 characters to sign and date a post (especially when the I'll show you to be wrong, just give me time to show my improvements. comment is just 69 characters long). Nick (talk) 13:18, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• I'm certainly going to support an indef, having looked at this. Captain Assassin's behaviour is flat-out wrong, and needs to stop, permanently. Moving around articles on your whim, and copy-paste moves to try and gain credit is bang out of order, and this is not what Misplaced Pages is for. Add in the inappropriate new articles you've created, and we're left with an editor who is clearly WP:NOTHERE to build an encyclopedia, but is here to attention seek, by any means possible. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 16:26, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

How is my behavior flat-out wrong now? What am I doing now, I'm just saying that I'll show myself improved if you just give me some time and see. Is there anything wrong in saying that? -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 16:58, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• Capt. Assassin - recommend you post on the Film Project talk page to get other users opinions on page moves. For example, you recently moved Belle (2013 film) to Belle (2014 film), which I believe you did in good faith. I've moved it back, per WP:FILMRELEASE (the Toronto premiere makes it a 2013 film). Please read the FILMRELEASE guide I've linked to, and if in doubt, please head to the Film Project for futher clarity. The same with the redirects too. Thanks! Lugnuts 19:02, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• Thank you Lugnuts, I'll discuss the films related topics there next time. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 22:57, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• • No probs. Rather than all this topic ban nonsense, I purpose a simple "do not move/do not create redirects" until futher notice. Captain Assassin has done some great work expanding articles and I think this is a bit heavy-handed (I can't see a previous ANI about the same issue). For page moves, if in doubt either go to the film project or log a request at requested moves. For redirects, there's no need to create them as they would fail WP:NFF and will be speedily deleted in any case. Of course, if you are actually starting a new notable article, that is fine. Any of the people who brought this to ANI disagree? Thanks. Lugnuts 06:26, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Thanks again Lugnuts, but look, I'll not move any redirect or film page until I noticed you but creating redirects is another problem. Because if I'm willing to create an article (as example an adaptation) later so if I have reliable sources at the target and the film is in development so I should have created the redirect, what do you think of that? Sorry if I'm wrong but I think WP:NFF is for future films articles but I'm not creating the articles until principal photography or filming begin, I'm just saying for the creation of redirects to make them article later when filming begin. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 15:49, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

There is nothing in Misplaced Pages:Redirect which appears to justify creating a redirect for a subject that doesn't meet notability guidelines. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:01, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes and there is a thing in that to create the redirects to the sections of other articles if we need it, so I think redirects can be created if they meet notability, like I said I will only create the redirects when target articles have reliable sources and proper evidence of the redirected article and then it is a significant redirect to wait to be created into a good and expanded article later. And its just redirects man, everyone creates the redirects some have been caught ( like me :), kidding ) and others fled, it's just the matter of time. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 16:54, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Per the last comment, I would say that at minimum, any topic ban on Captain Assassin! needs to unequivocally include a complete ban on creation of any redirects. This contributor is self-evidently obsessed with 'getting in first', and such an attitude can only be to the detriment of the project. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I would agree completely with the fact that any topic ban will need to include a complete ban on creation of any redirects. Unfortunately, I cannot see Captain Assassin! being able to follow through with this. From his comments above, he clearly is not interested in agreeing to such a ban. From the conversations he has had with User:Rossami and User:SummerPhD on his talk page, he has gone back on his word to not create redirects without proper sources many times. For that reason, for his recent comments above, and his history of wanting to get "credit" for everything, I think the encyclopedia would benefit if he was permanently blocked. --Logical Fuzz (talk) 20:15, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the evidence doesn't look too good in CA's favour. This redirect was created in the last 24hrs (IE while this discussion was ongoing) with the edit summary "Film is not started filming or production yet so redirect to its main article". The main article states " was still in the works however likely would follow Terminator 5, which is due for release in 2015". Hardly grounds for creating a meaningful redirect of any real use. Lugnuts 11:47, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• I'm not saying that I'm always going to create redirects, I'm just saying that I'll only create some redirects with high notability. I'm not fighting and doing anything harm to you or Misplaced Pages, I'm just asking for it to let me do it just a few which I will create and expand later. I'll create redirects like 50 or 100 a moment or in a month, I'll only create which have to be created (like novel and musical adaptations with production information at their targets. I'm asking it very politely, if you are thinking I'm in bad mood or I'm a angry person, well I'm not. I'm agree with you all but about redirects I'm just asking for it because everyone here in Misplaced Pages is allow to create them, so should I. I've learned so much in this discussion but I want to help Misplaced Pages. If you just think a little that a redirect will take us to the target where information of that redirected article is available with pure reliable sources and this thing is also an Admin said to me to put information about the redirected article at the target with sources then create the redirect. I'm not talking about credits here, I'm talking about rules. There are no rules to not create the redirects, if you want to ban me you should ban completely creating redirects so no one will create redirects in future. And again (specially to you Logical Fuzz), I'm not a bad guy or a rude if you are thinking of that, I'm a very politely talking and kind heart person in my real life and I'm not talking rude here too. And as above User:Lukeno94 said about my behavior, I never get angry even if someone beat me hardly so how would I behave rude or my behavior could be wrong. I'm just a animation student with full of sorrows and grieves who is looking for happiness in real life. I never hurt a person real life how can I harm or destroy encyclopedia, I don't want to. I'm nothing in here, I've made mistakes and still making perhaps, so do everyone (if not now sometimes in the past). I like very much to help encyclopedia even I tell everyone around me (my friends) to use it and help it by editing, I'm a fast learner and I don't do the thing again if someone stopped me to not to do (even in my real life) but this redirect thing is just making me crazy, you now why if you have just saw me editing or working here you all can see that I've mostly worked on stub creating, I mean I love to create stub articles, I love to start them and see others expanding them. It's not like I want credits, once I wanted it when I moved some redirects mentioned above but when I got here in this discussion I swore not to do that again. You are not thinking clearly or perhaps not understanding me clearly, don't mind I'm just saying, I think I wrote something which teased you or I don't know...which showed you or made you think that my behavior is rude but seriously I'm very polite talking. I don't know why I want to create redirects so much perhaps for stub creating as I told. You can see my whole editing history or ask Mr. User:Bgwhite or User:Mar4d, I'm really very interested in creating stubs and I had always in past. So I'm just asking/saying please don't ban it, it helps to create history in editing of that article which I think also benefits Misplaced Pages. Or if, if you want to ban it then I'll suggest ban it permanently in Misplaced Pages so no one should create them (if you think redirects are harmful to encyclopedia). And in last this blocked thing, I don't think Misplaced Pages wants a user blocked who is editing a lot (if not a lot then a few but it is something), so I don't want to be blocked at any price but I've told you my problems and solutions as well in this comment. I don't know what you all are thinking but I'm not being rude to anyone, once I was angry only with User:Rusted AutoParts but I forgave him after that and I apologize to him now. You all should know that I'm a Muslim and we are very good in forgiving (if not everyone, I'm), our religion wants peace and we are peaceful. Today is our Eid al-Fitr holiday celebrations, this is a great celebration day for all Muslims, I'll just say Allah bless you all with great happiness :). Please don't think I'm involving the religion in this, it's just because today is a big day for us. By the way Lugnuts, I thought you were helping me in this condition of mine Twins 2 is the title in development announced by actor, is it wrong seriously?. So the decision is up to you all, I'm nothing guys but I'm just wanting to help it because I love Misplaced Pages and I told this to everyone around me when they make joke of me editing it (personally I want to edit it and edit and edit and edit it like always :) ). -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 15:24, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Considering the above, I repeat my suggestion of a WP:CIR block rather than a topic ban. Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• I also repeat my comment. Captain Assassin is either trolling, is otherwise choosing to ignore the concerns raised by everyone in this thread, or simply doesn't understand what is going on. Either way, their wall of text is a clear sign that they're a net negative. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 19:32, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• I just don't know what to say now really, I'm feeling very sorry for my last comments above. Just do what you want to do, I'm on my kneels now. Or let's negotiate it in better ways if someone here is good in that or bring someone here. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 15:34, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Fairleigh Dickinson University and PublicMind

This is a continuation of a slow-moving archived discussion at WP:COIN that hasn't seen any comments in a month. In a nutshell, User:Mfuzia was reported as a COI editor for his extensive paid promotion of Fairleigh Dickinson University (FDU) and associated pages, especially in connection with a program called PublicMind. (Allegedly there is off-wiki proof of Mfuzia's employment at FDU, though it hasn't been shared due to WP:OUTING concerns.) There was some discussion over the egregiousness of Mfuzia's conduct but there was consensus that he had engaged in ongoing WP:PROMOTION, that he should stop making direct contributions related to FDU, and that the FDU article would require substantial cleanup. Moreover it was determined that Mfuzia had engaged in WP:MEATPUPPETRY with User:Crcorrea. No final disposition was made, though User:DGG wrote, "If there are no continuing problems, there's no need to block." User:EdJohnston wrote, "In my opinion, if Mfuzia will agree to take a complete break from all FDU-related edits he can avoid a block."

As you might expect from my presence here, there are continuing problems. Mfuzia took a month-long break but just yesterday created an all-new, fully-formed article for PublicMind. The new article probably satisfies WP:GNG but that's not the point. The article appears promotional, but more importantly, Mfuzia was told by administrators not to add FDU-related content yet he continues to do so. I believe some sort of sanctions are in order, and speedy deletion of PublicMind might be appropriate as well. In addition I support the original request that Mfuzia be required to prominently and fully disclose his COI. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 17:38, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

The center is probably notable enough for an article, but the new article is not appropriate. I've deleted it by G11, but will certainly send the contents to any good faith uninvolved editor who wishes to use them as a start for a proper article. I support blocking the editor indefinitely, and unblocking only if I can be convinced he will stay away from FDU, Public Mind, and all related topics. I essentially extended him a last chance after some really outrageously promotional editing, and he is not able to keep from doing it. I don't think I was wrong to hope for the best, but it did turn out poorly. I do not want to immediately block before the ed. has a chance to respond. DGG ( talk ) 23:02, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I've notified User:Mfuzia that editors here are proposing to block his account. This should serve as an encouragement for him to participate here and agree to follow our guidelines regarding COI. EdJohnston (talk) 15:22, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I was not aware I had been banned from editing Fairleigh Dickinson University and all related topics. I also find it amusing that you have determined that I have engaged in "MEATPUPPETRY". This is all far too involved for me, my life does not center around Misplaced Pages, and the obsession with my "outrageously promotional editing" (hilarious use of outrageous by the way, I didn't realize something as simple as editing a couple Misplaced Pages pages could be so egregious) is old news. If I cared more, I would be offended, but considering you have done nothing but make assumptions about my intentions, I feel no need to defend myself. In a country built around "innocent until proven guilty", your conviction to stubbornness is impressive, without any real evidence. If my edits are so upsetting and warranting of deletion, so be it, I do not claim to be perfect, and I won't lose any sleep over it. However, if I see something that could use information, or needs some buffing up, I intend to continue doing it, regardless of what schools' page, or anywhere else for that matter, it is on. If it is inappropriate by Misplaced Pages's standards as an administrator deems it, I, or someone else should remove it. Lastly, I could also refer you to hundreds of other well written university pages so you can get into an edit war over their editors motives on this free, open, internet encyclopedia, if you feel so inclined. Thank you very much for reading. Matthew Fuzia (talk) 15:27, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Endorse block, enough is enough. This is COI editing of very much the wrong kind. Seeing Mfuzia's response here pretty clearly shows that this user just doesn't get it. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 21:06, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support block - per DGG's recommendation. User:Mfuzia is not a general purpose editor, he seems to work only on matters related to Fairleigh Dickinson University. He does not seem to be willing to edit in a neutral and non-promotional manner, and he doesn't wait to get consensus from regular editors before making his changes. He finds ways to add FDU-related material to more general articles where they might not be important enough to deserve space. For example this edit to the PPACA article. Mfuzia's comment above shows that he truly is not getting the message: Lastly, I could also refer you to hundreds of other well written university pages so you can get into an edit war over their editors motives on this free, open, internet encyclopedia, if you feel so inclined. EdJohnston (talk) 03:18, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support block - obviously NOTHERE to do anything other than promote this one narrow subject area. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 10:55, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

One thing he's partially right about--there are a number of almost equally bad university pages. I hope that I or somebody is able to get to them someday. DGG ( talk ) 16:18, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• That's true. I've marginally improved a couple, but generally given up at how bad they are, particularly as I lack experience in that area of editing anyway. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 21:20, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support Indef: Yknow something? I think he's mocking us... MM (Report findings) 22:24, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Incivility, personal attacks, bad faith by User:Joefromrandb

Joefromrandb (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Several hours ago, User:Joefromrandb made this edit to a discussion of the merits of having either George W. Bush or Henry Clay on the list. His edit summary was "I get it- you hate George W. Bush; get in line", and his edit accuses me (and by extension the four other editors who want Clay on the list) Setting aside the NPA nature of his comments, the following things are wrong with his assertion of bias:

1. The primary reason for removing Bush was recentism, not incompetence
2. Henry Clay is a quite significant American political figure
3. We just removed Bill Clinton from the list
4. Clay and Bush are of the same political persuasion; Clay's Whig Party morphed into Bush's GOP

When I explained those points to him, he said that it was "a laugh", taking this as some colossal joke and refusing to walk back his allegations of political bias against five editors. Oh, and as I was preparing this thread, he not only continually refused to walk back his outlandish claims, he called me "assholish" for asking him to do so, referring in his edit summary as my request being "sauce for the goose". Could somebody please explain to him that he can't make blanket accusations like that, because I'm not getting through to him? pbp 18:03, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• I would note that this is hardly the first time this user has resorted to ad homonem name-calling of people he disagrees with: a few weeks ago, he called mops who were involved in blocking him for 3RR "children". Last week, he levied this gem at an admin he disagreed with. In addition, he has been chastised for incivility at WP:VA/E within the last 48 hours. This is clearly an ongoing pattern with him. With 2 blocks under his belt, this user probably needs a 2-week forced vacation to remind him that doing this kind of behavior repeatedly is uncalled for. pbp 18:14, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
  • In all fairness, I've made that observation about quite a few administrators; not just the ones who've blocked me. Joefromrandb (talk) 18:26, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
    • Um, that doesn't make it right, it actually makes it worse. You just admitted to calling even more people names than the people in the diffs I provided pbp 18:53, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
      • I did? Joefromrandb (talk) 19:19, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Competence case anyone? Or am I thinking too much? MM (Report findings) 22:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• • You're thinking too much. Joefromrandb (talk) 23:33, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
• FWIW, Joe's disruptive actions are continuing. A few hours ago, he made a spurious soapboxing claim. And, for asking him to stop soapboxing, he accused me of being a troll and acts like being told to stop his incivility and personal attacks are some sort of joke. This has got to stop, and I'm afraid a block is the only way to do it. I again ask admins to review Joe's many unacceptable attacks on admins and non-admins alike pbp 05:07, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
  • When you want to accuse someone of "making a spurious soapboxing claim" it probably isn't a good idea to include a diff of the actual soapboxing. Just some food for thought. Joefromrandb (talk) 05:35, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
    • 'Cept for the following two points, buddy: a) the original posting wasn't soapboxing, and b) the diff is only you. Look, the fact remains that you have acted without regard for policy and guidelines vis-a-vis civility and AGF, and for that, you should be blocked pbp 13:33, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - Purplebackpack89, have you considered just disengaging and finding something else to do for a while? Your reporting is somewhat misleading (October 2012 is hardly "a few weeks ago") and this all seems like a tempest in a teapot. When you find yourself getting this upset about something, it's best to take a breather and come back in a day or two. I don't see any point in this bickering and I really don't see any point in blocking someone over their rhetorical style. --Laser brain (talk) 13:47, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Um, all the other diffs are from the last two weeks, and most are a lot more than "rhetorical style"; they are flat-out personal attacks. He repeatedly engages in personal attacks, and laughs off requests to be civil. I am very disturbed by his recalcitrance, and you should be too pbp 15:26, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Disruptive behavior at Digvijaya Singh

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Looking through the talk page discussion and the ANI thread, it seems pretty clear to me that Sitush is judged to be editing well within the guidelines set by BLP, NPOV, RS, and whatever else you want to throw at it, according to such users as Yogesh Khandke, RegentsPark, and (on the talk page, see section "Other Controversies"), A.amitkumar. Note that I have hereby pinged them, and I do not wish to suppose that they all agree with Sitush, just that they have, at various points disagreed with Soham's various, lengthy, and numerous complaints.

To cut a long story short, since we've wasted enough dinosaurs and electrons on this, action needs to be taken here. A block for disruption is a possibility, but it seems to me that a topic ban for this particular article (which could be extended to others if Soham persists) is no more than appropriate, given the enormous amount of energy this is taking. Let's not drag this out any more: I'm hoping for a quick solution, though I am open to other suggestions. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 23:40, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• One more thing: I just noticed there's some back-and-forthing on Soham's talk page about personal attacks; I have not looked into that and thus have no opinion on them. I urge both editors to keep their cool, and I hope that was a redundant comment. Drmies (talk) 23:42, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Heh. See, I said you should get your bit back. Quick solutions for contentious editing on Indian articles - you are a legend... Joking apart, Mr. Sitush takes far too much stick in this area, and needs support (or, ridiculously simply... his own bit), and I agree with what you say. That's of no use whatsoever, of course, since I have no bit, and I now return you to your regular programming. Begoon  23:47, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

@Begoon, "ridiculously simply... his own bit" has been suggested in more general terms but is not going to work here or indeed in any of the many articles where I find myself in trouble. Soham means well, I suspect, but there is a distinct lack of clue and it is not improving even when others try to point out their misunderstanding of OWN, NPOV, BLP, RS, CONSENSUS etc. The obvious solution would be a limited topic ban that enables them to learn our ways in a less charged environment (these Indian politicians are up for election over the next few months, so things are only going to get worse for those of us who are trying to keep things even-keeled). Soham has already been warned about ARBIPA and so a discretionary sanction could be imposed. Whether that would work if based solely on matters relating to one person in Indian politics is less certain because Soham has had difficulties with at least one other such article also, although I acknowledge that they seem since to have backed away from that voluntarily. As to the reason for their behaviour, well, I vacillate: sometimes it seems like competence issue, sometimes like IDHT, sometimes like POV/COI, sometimes just troll-ish and so on. It really is rather baffling to me. - Sitush (talk) 00:29, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Point taken - sort of... WP:INVOLVED is therefore wrong if it prevents editors with the best interests of the encyclopedia as their motivation from acting in said interests. On this particular case I may be mistaken, but in general it would take quite an essay to convince me that long-time experienced users of your calibre in a contentious area do not need, and would not use the admin bit well. Whether you want it is of course another issue, and that would be up to us to encourage you. These are the broken areas, which therefore need the most attention from editors proven to have our best interests at heart. Anyway, off-topic, and said now. Best. Begoon  00:41, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Begoon, thanks, and if it were up to me I'd warn Soham and then wait for the next edit to bring the block hammer down: their edits have a knack for being disruptive, so that wouldn't take long. But I can't do that, nor do I really want to--the subcontinental business is already difficult enough, and before you know it someone says "oh you're Sitush's drinking buddy". Well, I'm not (we're thousands of miles away), but I am a friend of his, and I appreciate what he's doing for the project. All the while I will maintain that I have no problems with being objective in this area, but for me to block Soham is like throwing chum in sharky waters. So what I want is a solution built on a consensus, not just on one admin's (!) decision. Drmies (talk) 00:50, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Well yeah, and hence why you asked instead of acting. That's what we're all about, and it's proper and good. I just think we desperately need good actors in that area, and if you can think of a better one than Sitush I'm all ears. Begoon  00:56, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• I was going to raise this at ANI as the back-and-forth is very unhelpful. I had hoped that Soham could become familiar with Misplaced Pages's procedures, and I've spent a significant time urging that, but if something isn't done now, the user will harden in their habit, and will cause lots of disruption before the inevitable happens. I was going to ask that an admin issue a clear notice that Soham must stop talking about Sitush, and must start applying WP:AGF, and must engage with the discussions. Soham regards Misplaced Pages like any other website where opponents are parried—whoever has the greatest dedication will win. Perhaps a firm resolve here could persuade Soham to focus on article content, and to realize that we don't cherry pick text from policies to counter opponents (particularly when inexperienced). Sitush's above suggestion ("a limited topic ban that enables them to learn our ways in a less charged environment") is exactly what is required, but that's a radical idea as the community generally wants to see more blood before acting. My concern is that there is a potential for Soham to become a useful editor, but that will never happen unless firm action is taken now. I guess all we can do is form a consensus per Drmies—a short block if disruption continues. Johnuniq (talk) 01:17, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Johnuniq, my apologies--I meant to give you a shout-out/ping as well in my posting. Actually, I think that a topic ban is preferable over the threat of a block, so if you want to go "per Drmies", I'd prefer it per toward a topic ban. Drmies (talk) 03:43, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Agree I would agree on the topic ban, to prevent further time drain of other editors, we could possibly use Sitush elsewhere instead of he logging in everyday to justify a counterclaim on that talk page and also if this ban would push Soham productively to other areas of WP (seeing the contribs of Soham being lately solely to this one page makes him almost a single purpose account).  A m i t  웃   03:09, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I have the following comments to make:

• User:Drmies is an admin on this site, and i respect this fact. Never the less, i had taken him for DRN where the mediator had ruled in my favor and against him. For link: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_71 (title of the discussion is 'Narendra Modi'). This was after we had a somewhat nasty exchange on his talk page. After the DRN,however, i had apologized to him and he claimed he had accepted my apology.
• User:Drmies made the present complaint about me after User:Sitush (with whom i have been having a long running dispute on the page http://en.wikipedia.org/Digvijaya_Singh ) wrote on Drmies's talk page complaining about me. The fact that Sitush and Drmies are on familiar terms is evident when Sitush also disclosed about the birth of a new child in his family and Drmies congratulated him for this. I thought this was odd considering http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_forum
• Sitush was seen asking User:Johnuniq on Johnuniq's talk page on how to handle me. Again odd considering http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_forum and indicating that the two are on familiar terms.
• The only editor in the main article under discussion who had also participated in the previous ANI complaint against Sitush that i had made was User:A.amitkumar and he had expressed his agreement with me that Sitush has taken ownership of the article under dispute in violation of WP:Ownership. It is true that i had a disagreement with User:A.amitkumar after i objected to some of his edits, but we reached WP:Consensus after he allowed me to make some modifications to his edits. Sitush, however, unilaterally removed all of amitkumar's edits (and also my edits) from the main article. The complete 'Debates, Disputes, and Controversies' section was unilaterally removed by Sitush in the face of objections by me and User:A.amitkumar.
• There is a 'factual accuracy is disputed' tag on the main article as of now. This was based on my discussions with Sitush on the talk page by another editor indicating that there are others who agree with my position.
• My understanding based on when TransporterMan had ruled in my favor (and against Drmies) in DRN is that in a disputed edit, at least two reliable references must be given. That is why i had objected to Sitush inserting widely speculative claims of Aditi Phadnis which in my opinion violate the Balance and Impartial Tone clauses in a DRN. That is why i had asked Sitush to provide another reliable reference for the claims of Phadnis. TransporterMan had written the following in the DRN: "Whereas WP:V or WP:BLPREMOVE provide minimum standards for inclusion, the "belongs in the article" language of WP:WELLKNOWN (and it's repeated in the second example of that section, not reproduced here), seems to say that material reported in multiple reliable sources should be included, and would appear to have been adopted as a bright-line test to resolve disputes just such as this one. It would take some digging to find it, but long ago I went to some effort to find out what "multiple sources" means in Misplaced Pages policy (though more in the context of the various notability standards, rather than this particular policy) and found a very clear answer that it merely means "more than one," and does not mean "many." This is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_71 (The title is 'Narendra Modi').
• I also believe the following sentence inserted my Sitush is erroneous: "Mool Singh, the incumbent MLA, announced then that he would not be contesting his Raghogarh Assembly seat in the forthcoming elections, paving the way for Jaivardhan to be elected in a form of dynastic succession that is common in North India but rare in the South.". I have given my reasons why i believe this edit to be erroneous in the talk page. Let us name the disputed sentence as Edit 1. After my initial objections to this sentence Sitush had modified it to make it Edit 2. I found even Edit 2 to contain an error and after a somewhat lengthy discussion with Sitush in which he allowed me to have the last word i modified Edit 2 to make it Edit 3. When he saw this, Sitush reverted the edit back to Edit 1. I have explained why i believe Sitush's edit is wrong on the talk page of the article. See the sections 'Inaccurate edit of User:Sitush' and 'Inappropriate phrase used by Sitush'. This kind of behavior, i have explained in the talk page (see Section 'Disputed Edits'), makes WP:Consensus impossible to achieve and is indicative of WP:Ownership.
• I did not engage in edit warring on the main article with Sitush and allowed him to retain whatever edits he had put in place in the main article even though i continue to believe them to be erroneous.
• I am a relatively new editor at wikipedia and i do not have 'friends' like Sitush does. Never the less, i believe i have a lot to contribute to this site. As an example, please consider the content i had added on the page of Voltaire in which i had given a primary reference to my edit. (Yes, it got reverted but i have initiated a discussion on the talk page) http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Voltaire&diff=567483169&oldid=567479275
• If the person judging my case decides to ban me, i will accept the punishment and quitely go away. Soham321 (talk) 03:41, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support topic ban as per Drmies, Amit, and the wall of text by Soham321 right above me. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 07:39, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support topic ban I had to check the first link in the above where it was promised I would find the mediator ruling against Drmies (here). That's a bit of a LOL I'm afraid because it shows that Misplaced Pages's dispute resolution procedures are even worse than I had imagined. With infinite patience, Drmies pointed out that some edits by Soham were not really what is expected, and gave two diffs: diff1 shows Soham adding a section with title "Usage of Foul Language" to a politician's BLP, and diff2 shows Soham adding a section titled "Alleged involvement in Haren Pandya's murder" to the same BLP. I suppose the DRN volunteers are used to situations where one bad group of POV warriors is battling another bad group of POV warriors, but even so, the reply to Drmies is most disappointing. The two diffs I just repeated are instantly recognizable by any experienced editor as off-the-wall unsuitable, and the fact that the mediator was able to keep a straight face while suggesting some middle ground is, well, breathtaking. I'm firming up in my view that if the community doesn't get set a higher standard on early policy enforcement, we are going to be overrun with nonsense. The DRN incident was three months ago—no wonder Soham is so confidently brushing advice aside now! Soham's last comment (an echo of a "if do get banned from the site, it won't be a big deal for me" reply made two days ago diff) is a worry as it indicates that further engagement may be unproductive. Johnuniq (talk) 07:53, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

The diffs which Johnuniq is citing were not disputed at all by me in the DRN. This is what the mediator told Drmies also in the DRN. I have given the link to the DRN discussion as well as the title and i request readers here to see the discussion rather than believe the disingenuous and misleading statements of User:Johnuniq. Soham321 (talk) 08:08, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Also, my statement which Johnuniq is referring to was simply to state that i am not a professional wikipedia editor. It is not my full time job and i do not stand to make any money by making edits or participating in discussions on the site. Also, i would like Johnuniq to explain why Sitush wrote on his talk page on some advice on how to handle me. Does Johnuniq know Sitush personally? Soham321 (talk) 08:29, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• It is my experience that DRN never works for India-related stuff. Perhaps it does for aspects related to Indian geography but it never has for caste, religion or politics on any occasion where I have been involved. That is why I have decided not to waste my time with it in future. That it hardens the position of clearly misguided contributors is probably because (a) the subject matter is unfamiliar to those who are mediating and (b) there seems to be a desire to be all things to all people. Perhaps, though, I've just got a very jaundiced opinion. - Sitush (talk) 08:05, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• DRF may or may not work for certain topics but it needs to be present as a mediation mechanism. Also, editors who show disrespect for wikipedia rules and guidelines by simply removing disputed content which has been taken up for discussion in DRN should be penalized in my opinion. Soham321 (talk) 08:21, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• It's old age, Sitush... Drmies (talk) 14:08, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support - a ban from articles relating to politics in India, broadly construed and to include all namespaces. Thought I'd best make this clear, since people are picking up on one of my comments above. I've no opinion regarding the length of the ban. - Sitush (talk) 08:05, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• I considered writing that i also support a ban on Sitush from writing on the Digvijaya Singh page, but then decided against it. Instinctively i am against banning anyone from any page unless it is something really serious. I am satisfied that we have the 'neutrality is disputed' tag (put be me) and the 'factual accuracy is disputed' tag (put by another editor--based on the talk page discussions between Sitush and me) on the main article which as of now is composed almost entirely of words written by Sitush. Soham321 (talk) 08:33, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support topic ban as phrased by Sitush just above. We really, really need to protect useful editors from the attrition and burnout this kind of wikilawyering and stubborn WP:IDHT causes. Length? Either one year or indefinite. As second choice, I'll support any other topic ban people can agree on here. Bishonen | talk 08:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC).

• I just noticed that my edit "Views on Hindu nationalist groups" (with a different section heading but same section content) on the main article under discussion which had been unilaterally deleted by Sitush has now been restored on the main article thanks to another editor. Strictly speaking, a version of this edit had been in place and i had simply made some additions and modifications (english corrections and making it conform to WP:NPOV). Soham321 (talk) 08:55, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose topic ban or any administrative action: Action on Misplaced Pages isn't punitive but it is preventive. Soham321 is prepared to abide by consensus regarding his behaviour, if an uninvolved admin delivers the message, the community should wait and judge before taking action against him, he is a new editor, only a few months here, the community shouldn't wp:BITE him. He could be given a warning per (User:Drmies): "Begoon, thanks, and if it were up to me I'd warn Soham and then wait for the next edit to bring the block hammer down" Also Soham railing and ranting against Sitush would make things worse, my experience is that whatever his limitations, he is evenhanded, and the community has immense faith in him, we think him to be a Herculus in the Aegean Stables Augean stables that the Indian related content are.(Yogesh Khandke (talk) 15:28, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) They have had umpteen warnings and explanations but have chosen to ignore them, For example, this thread warns and advises, as does this one. Then there were the comments about OWN in the prior ANI thread linked above, Talk:Digvijaya Singh is full of them and I'm pretty sure that there are loads more that have been deleted from their own talk page. In addition, we have ludicrous situations such as this (yes, I lost my temper there and walked away for a bit) and, really, despite all the words about accepting consensus they are not in fact doing it, perhaps in part because they seem not to understand what the policy means. Consensus, to them, is more or less a case of my way or the highway. Misrepresenting what people have said is another trait and seems to be used to bolster their wayward interpretations of policy etc. Really, it is quite scary and I think they should count themselves lucky that no-one has suggested an outright indef from the project for reasons of competence. That they are new is belied to some extent by the fact that they have been citing policy virtually from the get-go, albeit usually doing so incorrectly. If they can cite it, they can read it. - Sitush (talk) 15:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Sitush, writing about me, says: " That they are new is belied to some extent by the fact that they have been citing policy virtually from the get-go...". In other words, he is suggesting that i am a sock puppet of some other (more experienced) user. I deny this accusation completely. The reason i came to know of some WP rules and guidelines relatively quickly because i was interacting (and clashing) with more experienced editors and they were bringing up the WP rule book to support their stand. And so every time this was done to me i knew more about WP rules and guidelines. Of course, i did some reading on my own as well. Soham321 (talk) 18:50, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• One more warning delivered at AN/I, wouldn't hurt the project, I request the community to give him one more chance. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 16:16, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• I went back to the archives to see if other editors have complained about User:Sitush. I found this very interesting thread: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive798#Editor_.28Sitush.29_behaviourial_issues
• There is also mention of Drmies in this discussion. Specifically: "BTW I have an impression that the user talk:Drmies page is used by the clique to coordinate attacks against disagreeable contributors. One can see how they discussed (and defamed) me there, without even notifying me, although I did not cross their paths except this single message...".
• I was impressed also by: "All these edits of Sitush are just to agitate other editors. He knows that it works well. He knows that Mr.T gets short tempered and would violate WP:3RR and then he can be blocked. He also knows that i have for various times abandoned editing such articles where someone is simply playing in a puddle and throwing dirt. That is also true with various other editors and not just me. He is using all these strategies to irritate us all.I propose that he be topic banned from editing this and other related articles. He may choose any of his buddy-editors to edit the article instead of him; you know if he is really very caring about the readers and Misplaced Pages and such moral stuff. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 05:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)" Soham321 (talk) 21:55, 8 August 2013 (UTC) Personally, I have always avoided confronting Sitush on the main article with respect to reverting his erroneous edits because i know he is more experienced than me when it comes to 3RR and this statement of User:Dharmadhyaksha struck a chord with me. Soham321 (talk) 21:55, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

The last bit indicates to me that you need a full site block or, at the very least, a complete topic ban from all Indian politicians. Sitush has never, as far as I know, been sanctioned, despite being brought to ANI dozens of times. In fact, most times that people complain about him, the complaining editor is either warned or sanctioned. Plus, the only mistake I've significant mistake I've ever known Drmies to make was to give up his administrator status. Out of an overabundance of discretion, I took a look at the talk page, and it is clear that you don't understand or don't care about WP:BLP. Deliberately including random rumors, unproven clams of malfeasance, etc., are one of the worst things we can do, and the fact that you're doing it on a politician up for election soon strongly implies that you're acting out of personal interests to damage this person's performance. Of course, we all know that I'm either Sitush's drinking buddy and/or sockpuppet, so I can't block you myself. I hope there's still some admins left who are willing to intervene on matters of this type. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:09, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• The 'Views on Hindu Nationalist Group' in the main article under consideration is a section that had been put in the main article by me and unilaterally deleted by Sitush. It has now been put back in the main article by some other editor. And some other editor has put a 'factual accuracy is disputed' tag on the main article based on my discussion with Sitush on the talk page. So claims that my edits or my posts are all nonsensical are themselves nonsensical in my opinion. Soham321 (talk) 22:18, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• The 'Other Controversies' section had been put in place by User:A.amitkumar and not me. I myself had told him in the talk page that i did not believe this section has biographical value, but i reached WP:Consensus with him after he allowed me to make some modifications to his edits. Soham321 (talk) 22:21, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• I find it curious that User:Qwyrxian should write: "Deliberately including random rumors, unproven clams of malfeasance, etc., are one of the worst things we can do, and the fact that you're doing it on a politician up for election soon strongly implies that you're acting out of personal interests to damage this person's performance." In other words, according to Qwyrxian (Q) i am against Digvijaya Singh. However, Sitush has been accusing me of being biased in favor of Digvijaya Singh. May i suggest that Q and Sitush first confabulate with each other and decide whether i am against or whether i am biased in favor of the concerned politician. Soham321 (talk) 22:26, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: I'm traveling and don't have the time to see how disruptive Soham321's edits are but there are definite competence issues here and the fact that this is still going on (I warned Soham as far back as July 26th here), and looking at Soham's comments above, makes me think a topic ban is a good idea. --regentspark (comment) 22:31, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• After the warning of RegentsPark i had clearly desisted from reverting Sitush's edits on the main article and had confined myself to discussing his edits on the talk page of the main article as can be seen. My posts on the talk page had two consequences: first, a complete section titled 'Views on Hindu Nationalist Groups' which had been inserted in the main article by me and removed by Sitush was re-inserted by another editor. And secondly, a 'factual accuracy is disputed' tag was put in the main article by another editor. In my opinion, RegentsPark should have avoided making a judgement on my edits when he claims he has not even seen them. Soham321 (talk) 22:43, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• The diff that regentspark gives is of the 'Other Controversies' section which was posted by User:A.amitkumar and subsequently reverted by me since i thought they were not conforming to NPOV and did not have biographical value. Eventually, after regentspark's warning amitkumar put his edits back on the main article. I then interacted with amitkumar on the article talk page and he allowed me to modify his edits to make them conform to NPOV, so we reached thereby WP:Consensus. But then, the entire section 'Other controversies' was removed by Sitush. In fact, 'Other Controversies' was a part of a secton called 'Debates, Disputes, and Controversies' and this whole section was removed by Sitush. One section of this portion ('Views on Hindu Nationalist Group') has now been re-inserted by another editor. Soham321 (talk) 23:03, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Soham321, just as a clarification, I'm not commenting on the content of your edits (and this is not the right forum for that anyway). Rather, it is the way in which you respond to comments or other editors that is the problem. A topic ban is not necessarily a bad thing. Work in other areas, demonstrate better awareness of how to deal with other editors and with conflicts, and the ban can easily be lifted. --regentspark (comment) 00:46, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• If you expect me to grovel before Sitush, that is not going to happen. The fact that i was able to reach WP:Consensus with User:A.amitkumar after initially having serious differences with him shows that i am capable of reaching consensus in a reasonable manner. The link i have given earlier to another ANI thread shows that there are other users who have experiences similar frustrations with Sitush that i have had to go through. User:Pectore also has in this very thread voiced the same frustrations of interacting with Sitush that i had to go through. The very fact that i was not indulging in edit warring, was allowing Sitush to retain what i believed to be inaccurate edits in the main article, and was confining myself to criticizing his edits in the talk page of the main article should count in my favor in my opinion. Soham321 (talk) 00:58, 9 August 2013 (UTC

Groveling before anyone is not required. Frankly, the fact that you seem to think that that's what is being asked of you is probably the best indication of the fact that you don't understand how things work here. --regentspark (comment) 01:43, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

The word 'grovelling' came to mind because i went from the thread http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive798#Editor_.28Sitush.29_behaviourial_issues to the very interesting user talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Mrt3366 where an admin writes to the user: "I'm not expecting any gratitue and I don't expect grovelling either." Soham321 (talk) 01:55, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• RegentsPark writes: "it is the way in which you respond to comments or other editors that is the problem." I would like to point out that there are other editors who have the same view of User:Sitush. For instance: I have the same impression as Dharmadhyaksha. I have been following the article and its talk page for some time. It is obvious that Sitush is constantly doing and saying things which would constitute blatant baiting (WP:BAIT}. He appears to be baiting MrT3366 in particular (who does not seem to understand how ridiculously common and succesful baiting is on WP, or what baiting is). I would urge that suitable action be taken to prevent Sitush from baiting others.OrangesRyellow (talk) 14:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC). And also, I was wrong in writing this all. I did not realize this before. The more chance you give Sitush to speak, the fouler it starts getting. Please close this thread. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 16:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC) (All quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive798#Editor_.28Sitush.29_behaviourial_issues ) Soham321 (talk) 01:23, 9 August 2013 (UTC) A few more examples: However, I am horrified at Sitush's vile language directly at my Talk page, at Talk:List of Other Backward Classes, and in edit summaries at List of Other Backward Classes. "crap" "fuck" "bullshit" "twaddle" are Sitush's words, within the past hour or two. This is inappropriate, entirely unprofessional badgering, IMHO. --doncram 22:55, 8 December 2012 (UTC) ; I don't know much about Doncram but Sitush's tirades and personal insults seem quite outrageous, being contrary to WP:OWN and other behavioural guidelines. Warden (talk) 23:53, 8 December 2012 (UTC) ; And I would add this is a very consistant form of conduct by Sitush. A little surprised there isn't some slight boomarang for his behavior on the involved articles. This seems to be something of a pattern I have noticed.--Amadscientist (talk) 00:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC) (All quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive778#Doncram_on_Indic_communities ) Soham321 (talk) 04:17, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I reinserted the Hindu nationalist material. Digvijay is mostly notable for being a controversial politician, and he became very famous after stating his allegations the RSS had some sort of cover-up involvement in the November 26, 2008 bombings in Mumbai. My experience with Sitush on this page has been negative. I dug up the controversy section (as is), because it was a well-sourced section with verifiable and notable information relevant to Digvijay's broader notability. However, upon digging this back up, I self-reverted and deleted a few of the sections, as they were not as germane to his notability. This prompted Sitush to go on a long rampage of sanctimonious edit summaries, given that he didn't understand I merely resurrected the material (from his edits until ). I don't think banning Soham will improve the content in any way on the page, and that Sitush is hardly blameless in this matter. Hence, Oppose topic ban.Pectore 23:25, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Not my edits: they were there before my time. You are miffed, Pectore, because you dislike my removals of other stuff elsewhere per WP:BLPCAT. And you are still miffed now. I am trying to improve the standard of the Singh article across the board, almost everything before the "Controversy" section that you reinstated is indeed my work - roughly, we've gone from this to this, via your effort here. In the complex interim, Soham has added nothing other than rebuttals of criticism and long-winded attempts to have certain well-sourced items that might reflect poorly on the man removed. My biggest single removal has indeed been the huge, meandering controversy section, some of which is now incorporated within the chronological structure of the article in order to minimise the "moths to a flame" nature of such sections when separately identified. Your reasons for opposing an action against Soham seem to me to have little to do with their behaviour and a lot to do with your present feelings regarding me elsewhere. - Sitush (talk) 00:33, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• The section that Pectore has restored in the main article had been inserted by me into the main article, and subsequently removed by Sitush along with some other edits of mine and also of User:A.amitkumar. (Strictly speaking, the section inserted by me, deleted by Sitush, and now restored by Pectore had existed in the archives of the article; i modified it to make it conform to NPOV and added one additional detail to the section.) I had only voiced my concerns about Sitush's editing in the talk page of the article and did not indulge in edit warring with Sitush on the main article. Soham321 (talk) 00:43, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

By the way, until the community decides one way or the other, i am not going to participate in any more edits on any main article. However, i will continue to post on the talk pages of articles and talk pages of users. Soham321 (talk) 00:45, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose t-banLooking through the diffs given by Sitush in their 00:33, 9 August 2013 comment, I think Sitush is trying to whitewash the article of negative content about the subject. That he is doing it before an election year is setting off some alarm bells for me. I think Soham321 and Pectore are trying to make the article NPOV and should be given all support and Sitush should take a break from editing the article.OrangesRyellow (talk) 01:18, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
• Comment: Trust me, Soham321, ranting against Sitush isn't going to get you anywhere. It will only make matters worse for you. I think I need to be a more detailed with this, check his talk page, he's been accused with being anti-foo from all angles, anti-Hindu, anti-Muslim, anti-Sikh, anti-Modi, anti-India. So editors/admins trust his judgment. So when anyone rants against Sitush, it is like ranting against the judgment of scores of editors. You're not the first and will not be the last. It would do good to digest user:PinkAmpersand's comments on user talk:OrangesRyellow's talk page, date stamped 21:15, 24 June 2013. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 02:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Soham you write: "After the warning of RegentsPark i had clearly desisted from reverting Sitush's edits on the main article and had confined myself to discussing his edits on the talk page of the main article as can be seen." Would you please provide diffs to provide evidence. Assuming Soham is heeding to warnings, it is a clear sign that he is amenable to advise. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 02:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• I am not sure how i should provide diffs for what i have not done. There was in fact one occasion when i did make a modification to Sitush's edit in the main article. The sequence went like this. Sitush had an edit (call it edit 1). He changed it (made it edit 2) after i criticized his edit on the talk page. But since the edit continued to remain erroneous in my opinion i continued to be critical of it and he let me have the last word. So i removed what i thought to be the error in his edit, and made it edit 3. Sitush then did not revert the edit back to edit 2. He reverted it back to edit 1. Details about this incident are present in the talk page of the article (http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Digvijaya_Singh#Disputed_Edits ). When he did this i did not attempt to edit war on the main article but confined myself to pointing out his behavior in the talk page. It is my belief that this kind of back and forth makes WP:Consensus impossible to achieve. Soham321 (talk) 02:42, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

You could provide RP's warning diff and a link to the history of the article page as evidence of your not editing the page after RP's warning. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 03:04, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

This is the article history of the page under discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Digvijaya_Singh&action=history I notice that i have in fact reverted Sitush on a few occasions (and gave my reason for doing this in the edit history). But in the event that Sitush reverted my revert (which actually always happened), i let the edit stay on the main page of the article and continued to give my views on the edit on the talk page of the article. In other words, I was careful not to revert the same edit a second time after regentspark's warning. Soham321 (talk) 04:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

OK your last edit was at 18:09, 7 August 2013‎, when did RP warn you? Yogesh Khandke (talk) 04:30, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

regentspark had written on my talk page: Soham, you can't go around reverting other editors and claiming that only your version is neutral. Also, edit summaries like this one are combative and pointless because it is meaningless to invoke policy without explanation. If you persist in doing this, you may end up blocked. --regentspark (comment) 01:29, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

This was my explanation to regentspark for why i had reverted the edits (for which he had served me a warning): http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Digvijaya_Singh#An_explanation_for_the_benefit_of_regentspark_and_others

For the specific edits which i had reverted (for which i had received the warning from regentspark), i eventually reached WP:Consensus with User:A.amitkumar who had inserted them in the article after i made some modifications to them. That was before Sitush unilaterally deleted those edits. Soham321 (talk) 05:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support I just received a ping to this AN/I from User:Soham321. I believe it is because I made the first comment on the recent DR/N filing on the content dispute. While I recused myself from the DR/N request, I need not do so here. The issues involved appear to be long standing and difficult for Sitush, and others. There is clearly disruption. Enough in fact to block for at least a temp period. However, I believe Topic Bans to be more effective in cases like this as it seems the editor can be reasonable in other areas (please correct me if I am wrong). While I do not speak for all of the volunteers at DR/N, I feel inclined to agree with the closing statement from User:Steven Zhang who stated: I think the boomerang effect applies here, and would suggest that if this sort of conduct continues, that Sitush should consider ANI." It appears that this sort of conduct has indeed continued and here we all are. I would never have considered even bothering with getting involved with this AN/I had the editor not requested my input. This is my input. Sorry.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 04:46, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• I have already made it clear that if the community wants to impose any kind of ban on me i will accept it (even though i may not agree with it). Incidentally, the reason i wrote to you (and also to some others) was not the reason you think it to be. The reason was that you (and a few others) have yourself complained about Sitush's behavior with other editors in the past (which i have referred to by giving direct quotes and references earlier in this article--in my response to regentspark). Because the problematic feature here is not my editing the article page since i clearly allowed edits i considered inaccurate to be a part of the main article. It is my behavior with other editors according to regentspark. As regentspark wrote earlier in this discussion:"it is the way in which you respond to comments or other editors that is the problem." Soham321 (talk) 05:10, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

It is interesting that Soham is accused of being both pro-Digvijay and anti-Digvijaya. Does that not make him neutral? Yogesh Khandke (talk) 05:19, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• In the talk page of User:Dharmadhyaksha (http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Dharmadhyaksha ) Sitush asked me why i am canvassing for support and i have explained to him my reason. Soham321 (talk) 05:16, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Clearly canvassing editors who have disagreed with Sitush looking to pile on as much against the editor as possible. I was foolish enough to believe I was pinged because of the DR/N, but you just clarified that it was because of my past disagreements with the editor. If you have done this before...you can be blocked right now without further warning.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 05:33, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

True, but that seems to be a benign error because of lack of knowledge about wp:CANVASS, or he wouldn't have been so very candid about it. As I said there should be a summary of what the community finds wrong with his behaviour, and he be given a warning, any further transgressions would be dealt with through necessary administrative action. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 05:39, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

That rather assumes that this was done out of ignorance alone, but if you are not interested in looking to see if he has done this before, I am of the mind that a block may still be appropriate here.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 18:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I can assure you that i had no knowledge of WP:Canvass. Moreover, i only gave the link to this discussion to certain editors. My message was completely neutral in that i did not say anything to these editors other than 'the following discussion may be of interest to you'. Soham321 (talk) 19:21, 9 August 2013 (UTC) To answer your other query about whether i have done something like this before, the answer is a categorical No. Soham321 (talk) 19:34, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Which only leads to the question, if you didn't know now, how do we know this behavior was never done before. Can you assure editors that you have never canvassed editors before? Regardless of the neutrality of wording, you were not neutral with whom you selected. I find the whole thing rather disruptive as it appears do others. Again, I am still of the mind that a temporary block is in order regardless of the outcome of the topic ban discussion.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 19:39, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I can assure all editors on my word of honor that i have never done any canvassing before. Considering that i am not participating in the edits of any WP article since the present discussion started and do not intend to participate in making any edits to any WP article until the present discussion has concluded, imposing even a temporary block on me does not seem a reasonable punishment to give to me considering that i am a new editor and had no idea about WP:Canvass. Soham321 (talk) 19:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately you seem to think editors wish to punish you. *sigh* Misplaced Pages does not punish editors. A block or topic ban is meant to be preventative. It is my view that you have clearly shown that prevention is in order now. it may even be a matter of a lack of competence.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 20:13, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Please do not misrepresent me. I would not be participating in this discussion at all if i thought a majority of editors wanted to punish me. Soham321 (talk) 20:20, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

You do think Misplaced Pages punishes editors. "mposing even a temporary block on me does not seem a reasonable punishment to give to me considering that i am a new editor " Those are your words to which I responded. It appears you lack the competence to edit on Misplaced Pages.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 20:31, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I used the word 'punishment' as a kind of synonym for blocking or banning me. Soham321 (talk) 20:39, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

You believed that Misplaced Pages punishes editors. It is exactly what you said and this is a perfect example of your back peddling.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 20:42, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

You have been repeatedly asking that a temporary ban be imposed on me and i gave my reason as to why it should not be imposed on me. I used the word 'punishment' as a kind of synonym for 'temporary ban'. Feel free to quibble about the word 'punishment' if that makes you happy. Soham321 (talk) 20:50, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, i admit i have canvassed with editors who had issues with Sitush's behavior in the past, but i did not know this is in violation of WP rules. I will point out though that Sitush had approached User:Drmies and complained about me to Drmies soon after he came to know of my prior disagreement with Drmies. (This happened when i gave Sitush the link to a DRN discussion involving Drmies and me which contained some informative text of the mediator TransporterMan.) Soon after that, Drmies filed the present complaint against me. Soham321 (talk) 05:45, 9 August 2013 (UTC) Some relevant discussion regarding this point has taken place between Sitush and me on my user talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Soham321#Beware_of_canvassing Soham321 (talk) 15:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

In any case it was reckless and not polite to drag me into this dispute. I was never seen around articles in question, I commented about Sitush only once (2½ months ago) after Sitush broke into my user_talk on a completely unrelated pretext, that had not any further development. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 05:44, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Strongly support topic ban per Drmies, and as phrased by Sitush - to avoid doubt, since I just realised I didn't make that explicit in my comments above. I'd also support a block to prevent disruptive editing, if the current level of time-wasting wikilawyering continues, and someone were to propose such a remedy. Begoon  15:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
• Soham has referred once or twice to a previous interaction with me, now at Misplaced Pages:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_71#Narendra_Modi. I wish to point out that that discussion has no bearing, as far as I'm concerned, on this particular issue. I also thought that problems was done with, water under the bridge. My thread was sparked by the Singh issue, no other.

  I'd like an uninvolved admin to gauge consensus here so we can move on--thanks. Drmies (talk) 16:31, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• The diff of Sitush canvassing for support with Drmies: Sitush and Drmies This was just prior to Drmies initiating the present complaint against me. Sitush knew of my prior disagreement with Drmies (when i had taken Drmies for DRN) when i gave him the link to the DRN discussion since Sitush wanted to know precisely what TransporterMan had said with respect to giving at least two reliable references for any disputed edit. For the diff: Sitush and Drmies 2. Sitush has said on my talk page that he knew about my disagreement with Drmies all along and he just wasn't sure which DRN i was referring to. However two things to note. First, this was the only DRN involving Drmies and me. Second, Sitush approached Drmies (canvassing for support against me) soon after i gave him the link to the DRN discussion involving Drmies and me. Soham321 (talk) 16:45, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
• The fact that Drmies has not been participating in editing the article under discussion but was quick to initiate the present complaint against me after Sitush canvassed with him for support against me (when he came to know from me about my prior disagreement with Drmies) reflects poorly on the judgement of Drmies in my opinion. Soham321 (talk) 16:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
• On another note, here is another diff of Sitush asking for support/advise from User:Johnuniq on how to handle me: Sitush and Johnuniq Soham321 (talk) 17:13, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Soham, you are failing to consider AGF and putting your own spin on events relating to the canvassing issue which. you will note, I tried to warn you off prior to realising that it had already been raised here. The canvassing issue is a sideshow to this report, which is concerned primarily with disruptive editing at the Singh article. I think that many people might be willing to accept that you were unaware of the conventions regarding canvassing but you most certainly were aware of the other issues that have been raised. It is those that you need to address, not this distraction. - Sitush (talk) 16:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Regarding your response of 16:56 9 Aug above, Soham. Are you saying that this thread should be closed with no outcome because you consider it to be procedurally flawed? I realise that this applies principally to block situations but have you ever seen WP:NOTTHEM? - Sitush (talk) 17:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Thanks for the link. (I had not seen WP:NOTTHEM before.) I thought it is fair for me to talk about you canvassing with Drmies, etc. in view of what i read in WP:ANI_Advice; see point 2 in particular. Soham321 (talk) 17:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• If asking another editor for advice on how to deal with someone is canvassing, then we all need to be blocked. Drmies (talk) 18:42, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Since i have never asked another editor for advice or support on how to deal with someone, i do not need to be blocked on this count. Moreover, asking other editors for advice on how to handle some other editor seems to be violative of http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_forum. Further, this kind of behavior inculcates cliquishness where a clique of more experienced editors can get together and start targeting a new editor. Since i have your attention, could you please confirm whether you are a wikipedia Admin anymore? Soham321 (talk) 18:47, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Not asking another editor for advice or support is supposed to be relevant to you not being blocked? Clearly you need a mentor and should be seeking advice. Perhaps that could be an alternative or addition to the topic ban or block.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 19:42, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

It will make more sense if you read my response together with what Drmies (to whom i was responding) had written. Soham321 (talk) 20:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I think you have some issues as an editor. One being a constant misinterpretation of others that appears designed to simply make the previous post have less weight. I can no longer assume good faith or no clue with you. I think you know exactly what you are doing. I recommend a 30 block for disruptive behavior and a requirement that you join the Misplaced Pages adopt a user program when you return to be mentored be an experienced editor. The topic Ban should also apply in my opinion.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 20:07, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I just wanted to tell you also in view of the angry tone you have been adopting towards me in your recent posts that i have lost confidence in you being a neutral participant in this discussion. The steps you are now recommending are not designed to reform me; rather they are designed to chase me away from the site. Soham321 (talk) 20:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

As I said, you follow up almost every post with such nonsense as to simply unweight the last post. You have filled this AN/I filing with huge walls of text.

• Could an uninvolved admin please collapse all of the larger chunks of text from Soham321 so we can get a better understanding of this filing without the undue weight of that editors interruptions?--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 20:18, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Richard Warren Lipack

I recently encountered Richard Warren Lipack (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Based on edits like this one (including the delightful section "'They had the internet already discovered back in the 1800′s!!!! They have SO MUCH HIGH TECH STUFF that they have been hiding from us for centuries!!!!' This claim by Nguyen is scientifically correct and today is supported by the recently discovered only extant manuscript journal of telegraph inventor William Fothergill Cooke."), I think it is safe to say that Mr. Lipack's judgement about the nature of reality can legitimately be questioned. On his talk page, he admits that he is also Epochwiki77, which brings us to Epochwiki77's magnum opus, William Fothergill Cooke. A quick perusal of that article's history shows that it was essentially created by Epochwiki77, and relies heavily on http://www.w1tp.com/cooke/ , which, unsurprisingly, is the account of a private journal of William Fothergill Cooke that was discovered by one Richard Warren Lipack.

My first instinct is to revert the article back before Epochwiki77's first edit, block both accounts, and just deal with this with some combination of WP:IAR, WP:COMPETENCE, and WP:ILLEGIT (on the argument that the name "Epochwiki77" was chosen to hide the relationship to Richard Warren Lipack). Before I do that, I'd like to hear suggestions.—Kww(talk) 06:24, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Maybe a topic ban is in order as it seems like the editor has single-minded focus on Tequila. The amount of work that went into the contribution to Tequila's article is substantial though it completely off-topic and inappropriate for Misplaced Pages. Or just keep Tequila's page protected.

I don't think a site-wide ban is called yet but a review of William Fothergill Cooke might be in order. I just think that if he could make a diligent editor if he accepted Misplaced Pages standards on RS. I don't agree with his worldview but if he can keep the conspiracy rants out of his work, he could be a productive user. Newjerseyliz (talk) 12:06, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I think an indef block is more than appropriate at this point. We should not be wasting a second more of time discussing semi-literate tinfoil rants about lizard people, Illuminati, and a D-list reality tv personality. Drop the hammer, and we find better things to do. Tarc (talk) 12:53, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Oy vey...I just looked through this and my brain is oozing out of my ears trying to escape. Support indef - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 13:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Note that the same editor has also used Epochwiki77 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 13:11, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Users shouldn't be banned, especially indefinitely, just because they have kooky ideas. I mean, who knows what kind of ideas other editors have that they never express? I'm sure there are regular editors and Admins who have peculiar beliefs. We can't police minds, only conduct. The content he posted was not encyclopedic and didn't have credible sources and it was rightly reverted.

Remember, the focus on contributions, not contributors. If he can read up on Wiki policy and standards and adhere to them, he shouldn't be prevented from editing. But if there is a particular hot topic that he repeated edits in a disruptive way, he can be given a topic ban, not a site ban. Newjerseyliz (talk) 13:37, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

The user is not (with any luck) being blocked because of holding these ideas, we don't practice Thoughtcrime around here. They would be blocked for acting on them, edit warring to insert them into a WP:BLP, and posting crazy, semi-coherent screeds within edit summaries and to user's talk pages about how to contact them to discuss/demand that this material be retained. This is base incompetence. Tarc (talk) 14:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm disappointed that this was acted on so quickly, without even hearing from the individual you've now indefinitely banned from the website. I don't think he was incompetent, he just didn't honor Wiki MOS, perhaps due to ignorance about policies and practices. I guess I don't understand why, when so many other issues on noticeboards and dispute pages linger around for months without a resolution, that a total ban was decided upon in less than 24 hours. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newjerseyliz (talk • contribs) 22:59, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support indefinite block. Edits show that this contributor is clearly not competent to edit Misplaced Pages. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:47, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support indef block and overhaul the William Fothergill Cooke article. GiantSnowman 13:51, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Aha - with those links from KWW, now it becomes clearer. It looks like the entire focus of this user's edits is popularizing this "Codex Lipack", allegedly a diary of Cooke that he found (and named after himself, of course). That's the source he's using for all of his edits to the Cooke article (which is probably the epitome of Misplaced Pages:No original research) and that's the motivation for adding all the conspiracy stuff to the Tila Tequila article, since it seems that she may believe him, and she's sort of famous. I don't see any productive edits in that. (It's theoretically possible there are some, because of the great-wall-of-text style he uses, but finding any in the cruft is a real challenge.) If Newjerseyliz or someone else is willing to personally mentor this user, we can let her try, but I suspect the game may not be worth the candle. Otherwise, I support indefinite. --GRuban (talk) 13:53, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

As an aside, would anybody be opposed to me being BOLD and reverting to this version which was the last one before Epochwiki77/Richard Warren Lipack started editing? GiantSnowman 14:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Done. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:15, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Good work. GiantSnowman 14:21, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support topic ban from the articles on William Fothergill Cooke and Tila Tequila, and support roll back of both articles to their state pre this editor and Epochwiki77's contributions. I agree with NJL that a blanket ban or indef block is too big a hammer to bring down right now, but I have to be honest and say that I do think it may be necessary in the future. Kim Dent-Brown 14:17, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support indef block This user is textbook WP:NOTHERE. Whether this is due to a competence issue, or the fact they just want to mess around and troll isn't relevant; they're not constructive at all, so they need to go. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 14:30, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support indef block on the basis of competency and no evidence that they're here to benefit the encyclopedia. Other edits by Epochwiki77 are only a little better, and we don't need to enable hoaxers or the deluded. Acroterion (talk) 16:46, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and blocked both accounts.—Kww(talk) 19:58, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

After less than a day's consideration? Why the rush? Why not wait for the user to respond to this posting? He hasn't even been on Misplaced Pages today to see the notice of this discussion and there is no "block" posting on his Talk Page that even informs him a) what happened on the one day he's not on Misplaced Pages and b) how he could appeal a block.

People say that these banning actions aren't personal but the only conclusion I can draw is that a half dozen editors thought he was a kook and wanted to kick him off Misplaced Pages. I'm not defending the quality of his contributions but the process here stinks. Some editors get away with atrocious behavior and don't even receive a warning while others get immediately and completely banned without a fair hearing. Newjerseyliz (talk) 23:01, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not a court of law, and Lipack can respond on his talk page, if he so chooses. But yes, using Misplaced Pages to promote crackpot nonsense will usually lead to a quick exit. WP:NOTHERE and the like. Resolute 23:19, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, I doubt he knows what is going on since there is no notice on his Talk page telling him he is blocked, telling him why he was blocked or telling him how he could appeal. Newjerseyliz (talk) 18:44, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

The block message he receives tells him how to appeal, Newjerseyliz. For me, it wasn't so much his beliefs as it was the suspicion that he was intentionally perpetrating a hoax.—Kww(talk) 00:45, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I still don't see any message on his Talk page that would back up the policy to "notify the blocked user". Newjerseyliz (talk) 18:42, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

It's an automatic function of the blocking software, Newjerseyliz. The block notice used to be the only thing that notified the user. Today, it's primarily a notice to other editors. When he attempts to edit, he will get a message that points him at a permanent link to this discussion and also gives him instructions on how to appeal.—Kww(talk) 00:46, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Other affected articles, including Coca-Cola

Per this and these two press releases, we also need to closely scrutinize and/or revert his contributions to Coca-Cola. It appears this user has been significantly abusing Misplaced Pages to provide support for his personal agenda. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 19:04, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Those contributions begin here, by User:Epochwiki77. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 19:07, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

User talk:74.120.133.55 will not stop with the soapboxing

The above user has been an a tear about some perceived "plot" being hatched in Gilberton, Pennsylvania. There is clearly soapboxing at that page's talk (see last section). He added (and then deleted) more yesterday (diff), at which time I left him a final warning about it on his talk (diff). He responded to it with more rant. Note that he was already blocked once for 3RR on the Gilberton page. Certainly seems like WP:NOTHERE to me. At best, he is an extreme WP:SPA with a serious bit of "lack of clue". Will notify IP user immediately after I finish this. Gtwfan52 (talk) 07:13, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

There appears to be plenty of coverage of this issue by RS at the moment judging from a google news search, probably enough for something to be added somewhere at some point if it passes the WP:NOTNEWS threshold. The IP just doesn't appear to understand Misplaced Pages policy at the moment. Perhaps if someone worked with them on on the article talk to find proper sourcing, showed them how to cite things, how to comply with NPOV and avoid OR they might calm down. Sean.hoyland - talk 09:26, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

There is coverage of the police chief's rant. I certainly haven't seen anything about anthrax, ricin, the overthrow of the government, the national guard, armed insurrection or any of the many other things he is going on about. Did you actually read it? I suspect this is a WP:CIR issue, and that is in your ballpark, not an editor's. Gtwfan52 (talk) 17:44, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Oh yes, I read it, and other comments, including the "honestly, I want CIA to put a bullet in his head" comment at Talk:Pat Robertson (which hasn't been removed yet and for which he probably should have been blocked) and the puzzling, given his activity level, "My daughter is going to be born Monday" from July 28. Call me cynical but I'm not convinced blocking people like this works. They just come back. Their soapboxing definitely needs to stop though. I usually just delete content like this from talk pages (in the WP:ARBPIA topic area where it's pretty commonplace) and cite WP:TALK/WP:SOAPBOX. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:46, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I did that at the city article. I am not comfortable doing at any article I am not involved in or on his talk page. Thanks for your help. Gtwfan52 (talk) 22:09, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, now a long term registered editor, User:Sweetfreek, is at the Gilberton, Pennsylvania page, spouting the same (word for word) rhetoric as the above IP. It doesn't take an expert to see WP:DUCK here. I have done again what Sean told me to do regarding the soapboxing, and reverted his edit per the already established consensus on the talk page. I did ask him to come back and try to discuss the situation sans the rhetoric after the city council meeting, so we have a better idea of where this is going in order to make a reasonable addition to the article, which, if we can keep the rhetoric out of it, is probably unavoidable. I hate controversy sections in small town and school articles, as they almost never are truly anything meaningful with time perspective. I am certain enough of the quack that I am not going to notify him. The IP already was, but if someone here thinks it needed, go for it.Gtwfan52 (talk) 02:58, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I can assure you that I am not the IP listed above... though frankly, I have no idea how anyone expects me to prove my innocence now that I have been accused of a crime. After all, I have been accused by the infallible word of somebody who redacts comments and pleas from the talk page, so I must be undeniably guilty of whatever he says I am, no? Sweetfreek (talk) 05:55, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Your words clearly indicate that you don't belong on Misplaced Pages. You should find a different outlet for your views. Zero 01:39, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Regarding all of this stuff that you think will happen, We can wait until it fleshes out and becomes actual facts. If you are looking for the developing stories then you may want to head over to Wikinews.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 02:06, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

And after that example of WP:NOTHERE after being warned about inappropriate discussions, a block should be applied. Probably with TPA revoked, as this IP user's only purpose here appears to be to vehemently push a political POV, using talk pages to do so after being warned about doing it in articles. WP:NOTHERE, WP:NOTFORUM, WP:NOTADVOCACY. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:03, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Request for mediation / opinion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hi, I'm writing this message because I have had recurrent issues of personal conduct with the user Guardian of the Rings (talk · contribs), because I feel he is being casually abusive in his dealings with me. I don't feel I am doing anything to provoke this, save perhaps this snarling edit summary (as he called it). But I wrote this only after messages which I deem offensive, as he accused me of "blindly reverting as if you had no functioning brain" and referred to my talk page messages as "babble (that) is merely a breath of desperation. The underlying content dispute, about a template, is being solved in a discussion at TfD. In the future these problems could be avoided if we simply avoided talking to each other, but at least for the duration of the TfD, I want to be able to say my opinion without being constantly faced with similar messages: diff, diff. He also repeatedly deleted my messages from the TfD diff, diff. I tried to talk to him on his user page, and the discussion seemed promising for a while. But his edit summaries remained the same, "just surrender, you really have nothing of use to add to this discussion anymore", and ultimately he deleted the user talk discussion and told me: and perhaps you could mind your own business by staying within the confines of your WikiProj as much as possible and bear in mind WP:COMPETENT...it seems you have no inkling of half the things I am talking …. But there is no reason why I should limit myself to one WikiProject. I'm not topic-banned from anything, so he has absolutely no right to kick me out of the discussion. I want to continue to contribute to the discussion and the WikiProject, and without being faced with "snarling messages" each time. Clearly, one of us (or most likely both) is doing something wrong, and an outside view would be welcome to make it possible for both me and Gotr to discuss the template without being at each other's neck every time.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 17:41, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Same problem different day: from the archives. Toddst1 (talk) 20:35, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Have you tried the dispute resolution noticeboard? I'm not an expert on dispute resolution, but it seems that such requests usually go over there before coming to ANI. CtP (t • c) 20:36, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

DRN is for content disputes, AN/I for behavioral. Nformation 20:43, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) This does not appear to be a content dispute. As the filing editor here has stated: "The underlying content dispute, about a template, is being solved in a discussion at TfD". This is a behavioral issue and belongs here because we have no other place to deal with behavior. This is an incident I feel needs administrative attention. I don't know the full ins and outs here but clearly the content dispute is being dealt with.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 20:45, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

So the Etiquette Noticeboard, or whatever its title was, disappeared? GotR 22:49, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Closed after a community discussion Nformation 22:57, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the link. These large developments often pass under my nose. GotR 23:07, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

To save the passerby's time, Underlying lk has not noted the unexplained, the frowned-upon, wholesale reverting of edits, parts of which have no relevance to the content dispute, which evoked this (overly) bitter response. The rest, I don't believe he has hid, although I interpret failed retorts that mimic the post being reported to as counterproductive and indicating he has exhausted his talking points, due to the inherent lack of a substantive opinion. GotR 23:07, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

You say that your bitter response was caused by my reverting, which might very well be, though it doesn't explain why all the bitterness continued when I stopped reverting. But don't you think that my 'failed retorts' might have been evoked by failed retorts of your own, such as "what a small mind, can't even focus on the more important of *two sentences"? This is not a situation that can go on indefinitely, it makes it impossible to discuss changes when every next message leads to more squabbles. I think you will agree that the attempt to solve it between us proved fruitless, which is why I am asking for help from other editors, not because I intend to waste anyone's time.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I view the first half of this response as a matter of personal opinion; your reply immediately following is, too. Well the lack of a substantive response to the finer details (if needed, link in 13 hours) of my defence begs any rational person to ask whether you have one at all or may well be evading the issue altogether for no particularly good reason. This aspect of your conduct I remain wholly dissatisfied with. GotR 03:44, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

My interactions with GotR were mostly at wp:Naming conventions (Chinese) back in February and twice on List of islands of China in June. The first started with and edit war (GotR warring against 3 other editors) starting here and ending here . GotR did bring it to the talk page when asked and although he did begin with a lot of unproductive bluster (and made one more revert in the edit war), the discussion rapidly became more productive and ended well .
The next two times, GotR’s behavior was much more abrasive (“casually abusive” is an apt description). I believe that in the naming discussion, with every post GotR added he managed to disparage an editor, or disagreeing editors in general. His use of this quotation sticks out in my mind as a rather clueless attempt to disparage another editor, as GotR was apparently unaware of the hypocrisy. Also his removal of another editor’s counter-accusation of POV pushing was quite rich (to use a somewhat archaic term) and his edit war to keep it out was over the top (continue through the diffs), which I brought to his attention on his talk page .
A little later, GotR was involved in an edit war on the article page (beginning here ), but did come to the talk page when I started a discussion on it. His post was inflammatory “otherwise it is an unequivocal attempt to push the nefarious 'Taiwan is not part of China' POV.” He did clarify without the nasty bit when asked , but with some additional posturing and without really adding much clarity.

Here are some other diffs showing belittlement of another editor based on perceived neck skin color , using vulgarity , and possibly threat . These last two appear to have been nipped in the bud (ani:cluckwik and ) after only the single pair of incidents. Calling people rednecks also appears to have stopped as has disparaging people because of their geographical location. I remember a few instances of these, but GotR is quite prolific and I am having difficulty finding other diffs, though this is in a similar vein.

I followed GotR’s interaction with eh bien mon prince (Underlying Ik) and my general impression has been that ebmp has gone out of his/her way to engage GotR constructively and has gotten nothing but abuse in return. GotR’s responses on this page that 1) it is all ebmp’s fault and 2) ebmp has no case seem quite far-fetched to me.

A lot of my contributions are in WikiProject:China areas, which GotR also frequents, and I would like to be able to interact with him civilly and constructively, and not have to observe his personal attacks on other editors. Given my knowledge of GotR’s history, this will require some sort of administrative action, perhaps warning from an administrator to stop personal attacks and edit warring, and blocks of increasing duration when GotR engages in them anyway. (But this is my first post to ANI, IIRC, so what do I know?) GotR does make an enormous amount of edits to Misplaced Pages and I was able to bring him around to a constructive discussion once before, so I hope he can be convinced to interact better with others.--Wikimedes (talk) 08:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Breastfeeding and -- autism?

This is not, strictly speaking, an ANI matter, perhaps, though it could easily turn into one. I'm just here to get some attention. There's some contentious back-and-forthing in the article history and the talk page, and the issue concerns a supposed relation between (lengthy) breastfeeding and autism. No dispute resolution or mediation seems to have been tried (as far as I can tell), and I think the matter needs attention from outside editors--preferably, of course, knowledgeable ones--before it gets out of hand. Thanks, and with apologies; I'd look into this more, but I have a date: ten years ago, to the day, Mrs. Drmies and I tied the knot, so we're off for some off-wiki festivities. Happy monogamy, or of course polygamy if that's your game, Drmies (talk) 21:50, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Don't you get enough attention on ANI/2? Happy Anniversary!--Bbb23 (talk) 22:09, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Some of the same points of contention were raised (by the same editors) in a parallel discussion at Talk:Breast_milk#Benefits_in_cognitive_development. The two discussions should probably be consolidated and handled at the Breastfeeding Talk page. I'm not a doctor, and I don't want to play one on Misplaced Pages. Xenophrenic (talk) 00:17, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

More inappropriate blanking of Turkic-related articles

I previously posted at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive806#Requesting rangeblock of 217.76.68.0/24 about an issue of blanking of Turkic-related articles from a range of IPs. The page Kyrgyz people is now having similar inappropriate editing done. Can a rangeblock of the IPs in question be considered? Jackmcbarn (talk) 22:40, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

 Done Rangeblocked 1 month. I'm inclined to agree based on the contribs that I can see. Nothing but nationalistic POV pushing for the last several months...let's see if 1 month will help.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 02:40, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

It's happening again on the same pages from 2.133.32.0/18, such as 2.133.57.134 (talk) (this frist one's recent, the rest are older) 2.133.53.46 (talk) 2.133.45.214 (talk) 2.133.54.41 (talk). Can it be rangeblocked temporarily as well? Jackmcbarn (talk) 15:06, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

I've placed some semi-protections on his primary target articles to thwart him. This may be better than blocking every range that he gains access through.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 15:44, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

He's had this range basically as long as he's had the other one, so it's not like he keeps getting new ones. Jackmcbarn (talk) 15:46, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Although it has been a while (April), other editors have used this IP range for non-controversial edits such as this. However, if he persists under this range and there is more problematic editing then we can look at blocking that range.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 16:05, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• Comment This is a common problem on articles related to anything Turkish. We had huge problems in the spring with a very aggressive Turkish dynamic IP who targeted over 50 articles with bizarre POV-pushing, and it became almost impossible to control it; we had to block a quite wide range. Problems like this is one of the main reasons I think editing should be restricted to registered users.Jeppiz (talk) 15:29, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

"Iraqi air force" legal threats

87.210.135.210 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) has requested the speedy deletion of Post–World War II air-to-air combat losses. In a posting that includes "The leadership of the Iraqi air force, "the former" deplores this publication and otherwise may turn to international justice and demand compensation for psychological damage caused by this article..." Fairly sure that's an unambiguous legal threat, etc, just passing the ball for comment, no opinions here. Benea (talk) 23:30, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I just reverted it as a pile of incoherent gibberish. Just move on and ignore it, IMO. Tarc (talk) 23:36, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Blocked per Misplaced Pages:No legal threats. Gamaliel (talk) 23:42, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

You indeffed an IP for an incomprehensible legal threat? While I tend to agree with Tarc, a block is certainly within your reasonable discretion, but indef is way overkill on an IP. Monty₈₄₅ 00:40, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Monty, that was anything but incomprehensible. They used an awful lot of words...but strung together they say "legal threat". Those that violate NLT are idef blocked until they retract the threat in an unambiguous manner. Seems easy enough. If they don't want to retract the threat, they don't really want to edit here and build an encyclopedia. Seems simple.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 00:46, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Except we don't indef IP editors because an IP shifts owners, unlike an account. If we indeffed every IP who made a legal threat, we would have alot more then 78 IPs in Category:Indefinitely blocked IP addresses. Monty₈₄₅ 01:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

See also Misplaced Pages:Blocking_IP_addresses#Indefinite_blocks. Monty₈₄₅ 01:02, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

The IP does appear to be quite static (the IP has been harping on that article since last october), so a very long block would be appropriate, though I would not go for indefinite. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:05, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

What are the other options besides indef?--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 01:11, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I typically place a block for about the same length of time that the IP has been in continuous use by one person, which in this case would be about a year. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I agree. Unless there is some evidence that the IP is editing from an open proxy, the block should be modified to a year (also per Monty).--Bbb23 (talk) 01:44, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)So then by that logic the legal threat is no big deal when its an IP, but when its a registered user we throw the book at them? That doesn't sound right. Why should IPs get away with a lesser block when nearly everyone else registered is indeffed? This makes no logical sense.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 01:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Oh, come on, because IP addresses are used by different people, so you're not just sanctioning the individual, you're sanctioning other individuals who might be allocated that address.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:55, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

This was part of my reasoning. I saw that the IP had been making similar non-legal edits and complaints to the same article for some time, indicating that this editor was almost certainly the same individual. I will split the baby in half and shorten the block to two years. Gamaliel (talk) 01:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Gamaliel. To Mark Miller, basically, what Bbb23 said. Some IPs are shared by multiple people, and some IPs change owner on a time scale of anywhere from years to hours. Giving them shorter blocks than we would give an account is simply due to the difficulty in knowing who is using an IP. Someguy1221 (talk) 02:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't that mean your are assuming that the IP will change hands? And in only issuing a temporary block you are really just cutting someone slack who has the potential to be the very same person acting as a different individual after the block expires? What this says is, we are limited in what we will do, because of the inherent nature of IPs that we have no answer to. I assume that someone who ends up with a blocked IP after the other individual no longer has it (for whatever reason) could well be under the time of the block and could still be blocking an innocent individual. So this still makes no sense, although Gamaliel's decision could be seen as a compromise.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 02:13, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and thank you Monty for those links. Didn't see them earlier!--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 02:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• The entire thing is ridiculous, particulary when you consider that most of 'The leadership of the Iraqi air force, "the former"' would now be quite dead, usually from 9mm hemorrhage. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:31, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Perhaps, but the part that should be looked at as the actual threat is "...may turn to international justice and demand compensation for psychological damage caused by this article". It still meant to create a chill effect.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 02:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• I think there are quite a few indeffed IPs that shouldn't be. This one is another - a year block is about right. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 14:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Over on Jimbo Wales talk page under the thread "Question" there is an article posted there by an IP about Misplaced Pages Whistleblowers that seems to demonstrate the reasoning behind why we don't indef IP users. It wasn't the intent of the article, but a case there does demonstrate to me the validity of why we do not block IPs indefinitely.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 22:02, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Extraordinary claims

These claims in the lead at Mindfulness-based stress reduction seem to be promotional and without scientific evidence. "It is thought to be effective for treating ailments including alleviating pain and improving physical and emotional well being for individuals suffering from a variety of diseases and disorders…….Through meditation individuals increase their self-awareness, which leads to a greater unity between the mind and body. Research into meditation and its health benefits has been widely accepted and the concept of mindfulness-based stress reduction was created out of the desire to understand these benefits more closely. A mindfulness-based program is beneficial to those suffering from chronic illness, anxiety, depression, as well as other problems. The benefits of using a mindfulness-based program have been proven to be effect regardless of type of program or length." I think an Administrator needs to look at this.--LarEvee (talk) 00:31, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't strike me as that extraordinary. Go through and substitute placebo for it, and there would be plenty of evidence to back that up too. Turns out the placebo effect is quite powerful. Really, the problem is that the language is a bit weasely, and oversells itself, but its not so blatant that normal editing can't fix it. Not an admin issue. Monty₈₄₅ 00:37, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

OK, thanks, is there a psuedo-science or medical club here that I could get advice from?--LarEvee (talk) 01:20, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I've never done anything there, so I can't speak from experience, but Misplaced Pages:Fringe theories/Noticeboard might be helpful. Monty₈₄₅ 02:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

There's plenty of evidence for mindfulness based interventions, much of it now emerging into the peer-reviewed literature and thence into treatment guidelines from NICE and others. The text may not be referenced well but this is certainly not fringey nor pseudoscience. If you think so, then I'm afraid you're not up to date with the science in this area! What administrative action (blocking, page protection etc) is being requested? If none, I suggest this needs closing and taking to the talk page. Kim Dent-Brown 20:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Ferret baiting

Some completely uncalled-for baiting of Malleus going on at Transportation of animals (NB talk:). Will someone please stamp on this ASAP, before it gets out of hand. Andy Dingley (talk) 00:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Unproductive; collapsed. TY Andy. Drmies (talk) 01:04, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

So once again baiting goes unaddressed. Eric Corbett 01:40, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

But it was addressed and mostly because it was you. For most editors, there would not even have been a report filed at ANI; nor would any action likely have been taken had one been created.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:51, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Are you kidding me dude? Hillbilly posted an article containing personal information with the sole purpose of mocking and baiting another user, and then proceeded to edit war without any purpose other than to get a reaction. It's unacceptable behavior no matter whether it's directed at Eric or an IP, and is borderline WP:OUTING. Eric chose to make his name known here, but Hillbilly obviously didn't randomly find an article from 2004 in a Manchester news site. This whole thing was designed to harass and bait. --Laser brain (talk) 02:11, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

My assumption was that Eric objected only to the latter part of the topic. Frankly, I thought the whole topic shouldn't have been on the talk page. I would have just removed it all. BTW, I don't mind in the slightest your disagreeing with me, but could you please not call me "dude"?--Bbb23 (talk) 02:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the dude. I agree that even placing it on the Talk page was a poor decision. Edit warring it into the article was disruptive and way over the line. --Laser brain (talk) 02:21, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Speculating much Laser Brain? I was working on an article called Transportation of animals, (in fact the previous edits were concerned with transporting ferrets in particular). I think the ferret-hammock piece definitely comes under that umbrella, I brought it up on the talkpage first, linked to Eric's name so he would know that I was considering adding the material. Another editor agreed that it should be added, so I did. You can see on the talkpage I wasn't baiting anyone, just trying see funny side of it all. I've always held Eric in high regard, and am surprised that he took offense. I do apologize for the 'old chap' remark, which could be considered over-familiar. -- Hillbillyholiday 02:33, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• My apologies for misreading earlier; I thought it concerned the talk page only. The added text was, even if intended in good spirits and humorously, not of proper encyclopedic level--that should be obvious to someone like Hillbillyholiday, who seems to be an editor who knows what's what. Restoring it ("not taking the piss") is disruptive, and Hillbilly could have shown better manners: you know what's going on and you should have known better. DracoE, you know I love you, but come on--if a girl says no, it's no, simple as that. If everything else fails I can invoke BLP which would urge us to be cautions. But seriously, Hillbillyholiday81, that was not a good move on your part. Eric, I'm sorry that I did not look more carefully the first time. Drmies (talk) 02:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

The article has had something of a history of funny-but-true facts and I thought that the ferret-hammocks quote would perfectly fit the bill. As Eric himself pointed out on the talkpage, the fact that ferrets can now happily travel within the EU was in some part due to his efforts. The material could have been worded differently or trimmed down perhaps, but it was relevant to the article. I undid Eric's edit because his comment 'taking the piss' was simply not true, and not a comment on the validity of the edit. I have no intention of restoring that material if Eric doesn't wish for it to be there, but I must reiterate that I wasn't trying to 'bait' him, I was just trying to raise a smile. Don't worry, it won't happen again. -- Hillbillyholiday 03:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Surely part of the aggravation was that this was on the main page as a DYK at the time, right? Add ferrets, by all means, but the timing was perhaps a bit insensitive. Stalwart111 02:43, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
• I agree with Laser Brain's comments about about baiting. I've just removed the additions from the page history as disruptive. It seems clear they were added to get a reaction out of one editor, and are definitely WP:POINTY if not harassment. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Or maybe that was an overreaction on my part. I guess if anyone thinks it's unwarranted they can revert me. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Again, I refute the accusation of harassment or pointedness or whatever. The information was relevant, sourced, and IMO (whisper it) 'quite funny'. For what it's worth, Mark, I think your wholesale deletion just then was uncalled for. I've been around long enough to know not to ask for assumption of good faith at AN/I, so I'll leave it at that. -- Hillbillyholiday 03:31, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Thinking about it some more, I don't think it met any of the criteria to be removed from the history, so I've restored it. I'd like to assume good faith here, but it really does seem like you were out to poke Eric. Mentioning passports and so on I can see, but getting into one couple's travel plans to France seems too silly to take seriously. I feel a bit conflicted though, since I've never taken you for the disruptive type. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:47, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Mark. -- Hillbillyholiday 03:50, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• @Hillbillyholiday81: Thanks for your thoughts on whether the edits were harassment or pointedness, but they are not relevant. Such behavior is indistinguishable from trolling, and participants here are unlikely to care whether it is intentional—that's just not relevant. Eric is known to attract misguided attention, and I ask any passing admin to ensure that nonsense like this is stopped ASAP. If the disruption continues, please block the user and bring it here for review. Johnuniq (talk) 03:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

  Ah yes, how silly of me to think that my own opinion on my own edits could in any way be deemed relevant to the situation, though I congratulate you for proving my point about the lack of AGF here. -- Hillbillyholiday 03:57, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

  Once again you are missing the point—your good faith and your intentions are just not relevant. If you lack the necessary judgment to participate in a collaborative community you will, at a minimum, have to be removed from that page. Johnuniq (talk) 04:49, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

  You aren't really going to try to tell us that we shouldn't allow people to comment on their own edits, are you? AutomaticStrikeout  ?  13:23, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

  Why not? It happens all the time. Intothatdarkness 13:54, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• I have no doubt that HBH was just being playful. The problem is that, while cow-tipping may be good clean fun for us hillbillies, bull-tipping is never a very good idea as bulls tend to take it the wrong way. He should remember that. Anyway, time to shut this down, I think.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 04:39, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
• Baiting? Maybe not. OUTING? Yes. Inappropriate? Definitely. GiantSnowman 16:08, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
• Related: Misplaced Pages:Files_for_deletion/2013_August_9#File:Young_ferret_relaxing_in_hammock_before_transport.jpg Andy Dingley (talk) 09:35, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I have speedy deleted the image, and left a warning at User talk:DracoEssentialis#Vandalism and personal attacks. Fram (talk) 09:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

What? You speedy deleted an image of a ferret because it was "created purely to attack or mock another editor"? This is an image of a ferret, not a portrait painted with someone's penis. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 16:02, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

It wasn't a picture of a ferret, it was some kind of long-haired gerbil or similar. GiantSnowman 16:06, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I approve of Fram's action, and would support a block if this harassment were to continue. --John (talk) 16:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• I accept Hillbilly's good faith; perhaps Eric doesn't, but he has good reason to be miffed about this. I haven't seen the image so I don't wish to comment on it. Are the edits OUTING enough to warrant revdel? Mark backtracked on it (this is not intended as an indictment) while I'm inclined to think that revdel would be proper. Given the BLP issue Eric should have a say in this as well: if he wants it gone it should be gone, and since we should err on the side of caution I'm going to revdel it again. If an uninvolved admin disagrees they can undo me, preferably with an explanation here. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 16:37, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Ok, good to get more input on this, erring on the side of caution is fine with me. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• The only real outing involved would be the fact that the article mentions his wife and I think that is reasonable cause for removing the edits. It doesn't seem to be a news piece too important to the article in question.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 21:13, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• (non-admin, partly-content observation, so mostly out of place, but whatever.) Hillbilly, you seem to know the history of the article. When it was at AfD, some of us fought tooth and nail to keep barely-relevant crap like this ferret news story out of the article. Adding stuff like that brings up not only the baiting/outing concerns mentioned here (I support revdel and removing the ferrets here, by the way), but also stuff like WP:UNDUE issues that we were all trying to avoid by deleting or cutting down the article. What you did, even if in good faith, was by no means constructive, both for the community and the article in question. Ansh666 22:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC) (By the way, ping me if you want me to see a reply or something. I don't hang out at AN/I much anymore.)

One-strike block of user Ryan032sucks

Disruptive edits to prehistoric animal articles

Tenacious IP constantly changing fossil range data at article Alamosaurus. After source was provided for original data, editor continues to change the data without chaining the source. See This IP address has apparently only ever been used to make unsourced edits to data in the temporal_range template of various dinosaur articles. MMartyniuk (talk) 11:20, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Dinoguy2 understates the case. This IP has been doing the same thing in multiple articles without a single word of explanation. Since it has been blocked for 24 hours once before, I'm blocking it for one month. If the same behavior restarts when that block expires, let me know and I'll make it permanent. Zero 07:56, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Repeated NFC violations

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• See Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive804#Repeated violations of NFCC and personal attacks for previous incident.

Less than a month ago EnglishEfternamn (talk · contribs) was brought to this page for repeated violations of WP:NFCC#9 (including non-free media on their user page) After 7 removal attempts they stated that they would stop. However this edit shows that they are ignoring the issue and re-inserting the file in question. Short of a block I am unsure of what will make the user stop. Werieth (talk) 13:23, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Blocked for 48 hours. I took this and this (check the edit summary!) into account in making the block. --John (talk) 13:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

User:Miesianiacal and decorative icons

User:Miesianiacal is aggressively restoring decorative icons to infoboxes on articles on Canadian Governors-General. When the practice was discussed back in April at Template talk:Infobox officeholder/Archive 17#WP:ICONDECORATION there was no consensus that they were valid exceptions to WP:ICONDECORATION. Our long-established practice is not to use icons in this way, as I've explained. Could someone else have a word with him please? I'm rather surprised to see they have never been blocked as I see they have also aggressively edit-warred against talk-page consensus over terminology in another article. Edits like this one are in breach of consensus and have continued in spite of a warning that I would escalate the matter if he continued. This comes on top of discussion at user talk since April. Thanks for any attention you can give to this. --John (talk) 15:57, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

John has misrepresented the situation.

The images have been present in the articles on Canadian governors general for many years. John's first move to delete them in April was thus a bold change the status-quo; acceptable within Misplaced Pages practice. However, when that first attempt was reverted, he proceeded to revert the revert. He did on April 8 initiate a discussion at my talk page, but quickly descended to low-grade personal attacks and demonstrated a misunderstanding of WP:CONSENSUS. On the same day, another discussion began at Template talk:Infobox officeholder. But, despite having failed to find consensus at the latter venue to remove or not use the images, he proceeded to resume reverting on all the articles on April 10.

He was, at that time, reverted by editors other than myself: (never reverted by John until August 9), (reverted immediately by John on April 8), (never reverted by John), (never reverted by John). I restored some in May, which he reverted some of quickly and some others in June; others I restored in June, which he reverted, again, only some of. Another discussion was begun at Talk:Roland Michener that again resulted in no consensus for change. Today, he's resumed reverting at some of the governor general articles.

Aside from John having never found a consensus to change the status-quo after being first reverted and instead choosing to sustain a slow edit war, the result of his haphazard reverting since April has been the loss of a consistent appearance throughout a series of articles to a persistent, though shifting, inconsistency; i.e. John may mistakenly believe the guideline WP:MOSICON empowers him to remove long-present images without consensus (despite not one editor at either Template talk:Infobox officeholder or Talk:Roland Michener opining that the presence of the images, per say, is offensive to the guideline), but he has never exercised that belief regularly, always removing images from some articles and leaving them at others.

My feeling is John does not understand WP:CONSENSUS or WP:BRD. Also, I suggested he try the next step in dispute resolution (an RfC, I believe), which I think he should have pursued before coming straight here (with misleading claims about me and all). Should a consensus to remove the images ever be established, I'd take them out myself. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 17:05, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Which claims do you regard as misleading? Where do you see a personal attack from me? WP:MOSICON is part of our Manual of Style and enjoys widespread consensus across the project. We would need you to establish some kind of consensus or rationale to diverge from the MoS to use these images, something you have never done. --John (talk) 17:21, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I'm not going to get into the details of why your claim in your OP about my editing in the context of an entirely separate matter is misleading; people can see why for themselves, if they're really interested.

The MoS is a guideline. In the two discussions you started away from my talk page, three editors participated. None indicated agreement with your interpretation of the guideline: i.e. that is is a policy in all but name without exception. User:Pigsonthewing insinuated images are permissible by starting his comment with "If they are used..."; User:PKT told you "Judicious use of the icons in question is not unreasonable"; and User:EncyclopediaUpdaticus quoted directly from WP:MOSICON and informed you specifically that "WP:ICON is a guideline not a policy and as the banner states should be applied using common sense. In this case the editors are using common sense and this article is a valid exception so the icon should stay."

No consensus was needed to be found before putting them in. Putting them in way back when would've been the bold edit, which, since it wasn't quickly reverted, gained consensus by staying and staying so long; WP:EDITCONSENSUS: "Any edit that is not disputed or reverted by another editor can be assumed to have consensus" and WP:SILENCE: "You find out whether your edit has consensus when it sticks." As I said above, the images have been there for many years, with multiple dozens of users editing all those pages over that time, and nobody made an issue of it until you in April. Of course, it's your right to do so; but, the convention is that the status-quo, which has a consensus through silence, remains until a new consensus is established; WP:BOLD: "fter a deletion of a bold edit , you might want to be bold in an edit on the talk pages so as not to start an edit war." You've failed to find any agreement for your deletions thus far, which is not to say you can't or shouldn't try. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 17:50, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, others can read the discussion at template talk and see if they agree with your reading of it. I certainly don't. Putting them in broke MoS; my removal was in accordance with MoS which is a long-standing project-wide consensus. Your restoration of them was not in accord with any consensus or policy, and you have not attempted to justify your actions, and there is no justification for them. We do not use images for decoration like this. You would need to demonstrate a consensus to go against MoS and you have not done so. I am glad, incidentally, that you have stopped edit-warring on the other issue you don't have consensus for; that is very encouraging. It would be great if you could stop doing so on this one as well. --John (talk) 18:07, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Either I didn't make myself clear enough or you're not really reading what I (or others) wrote. Regardless, I'll wait to see what others have to say, if anything. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 18:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

My comment was in no way intended to show support for, or "permissibility of" the use of decorative icons. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:20, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Your use of "If they are used..." indicates a permissability for the use of images, as opposed to starting with "They shouldn't be used". --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 20:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I do apologise; I forgot that you know what I mean when I comment, better than I do. I'll remember to consult with you in future, before making any further statements about my intention, in case I have the wrong understanding of my own views. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:06, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

1) The MoS is intended to provide sensible/practical consistency between articles. There are all sorts of exceptions, but this particular issue doesn't seem like an exception-worthy one - If we allow shields/seals/insignia in "Canadian Governor General" articles, then it will spread, leading to disputes in thousands of other articles/infoboxes.

2) The image is tiny, compressed beyond any hope of recognizability. (eg and and ) The only way it would possibly be useful is if greatly enlarged, which would lead to problems of undue prominence, and overwhelming (the other information) size.

3) It's a symbol of the office, not of the person. A personal/family shield/seal/flag might be an acceptable exception, but not this. Particularly because a person might hold dozens of offices/positions in their career, leading to an abundance of images.

In sum, it seems sensible and practical to disallow tiny icons in infoboxes. HTH. (Please alert me if this issue is discussed elsewhere). –Quiddity (talk) 19:43, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

These are valid comments. But, shouldn't there be a proper RfC started in some appropriate location so interested editors can be alerted and contribute and a consensus established? --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 20:24, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

The crest of the governor general appears to be a copyright violation of this site's artwork . While it is not the same as the current COA of Canada, it appears to be a recent artistic rendering. I also note that the boilerplate seems to be innacurate as they are stating the source as themselves improperly.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 21:07, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

This seems somewhat OT, but I can see differences between the Commons file and the one at the GG's website, most notably the absence in the former of shading that is present in the latter. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 21:13, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

That slight variation is not enough to say it isn't a violation when it is clearly stated in the image page where the source came from and the image is a faithful reproduction of the original. Making even color changes is not enough when it is very clear that of all the variations of this uploaded on Wikimedia Commons this one was taken from a site that still holds copyright.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 23:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Miesianiacal, you're making a mistake I see a lot of people make. They see that something is a "guideline", which means that there may be exceptions, and then they simply assert that their own edits are an exception (for reasons they, unsurprisingly agree with), and then go and make a bunch of changes to suit their preference. However, the burden really is on you: you need to make a case for why this one particular case is exceptional, and you need to do it not on the individual articles, but on MOS talk pages. Otherwise, you'd be trying to use a local consensus to override a site-wide consensus. Personally, I cannot possibly imagine any rationale why one particular type of politician is an exception while others are not (unless perhaps every reliable source that talks about these types of politicians uses these symbols and that is not true of other politicians), but you're welcome to make the argument. In the meantime, you should self-revert if John hasn't reverted you already. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:22, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - I would say lose the icon, what does it really add. Didn't we go through this with flags getting plastered on every bio? At the least, there should be a clear consensus for inclusion to have them. The "default" would be not to have them. Tie goes to the guideline. Just my 2 cents. --Malerooster (talk) 00:34, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
• Comment on icon - I can vouch for User:Sodacan, the author of the icon as he is usually quite informed about copyright. You may want to ask him to chime in here... – Connormah (talk) 00:46, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

PrivateMasterHD and 69.122.190.4

PrivateMasterHD keeps adding baseball terminology to football articles (and has added generally incorrect information and used questionable word choices in several articles) and has been unresponsive to messages left on their talk page except to blank the page. There have been documented concerns about them for past behavioral issues and while PrivateMaster has demonstrated the ability to make constructive edits, edits such as this continue.

I became aware of their activities on June 17 at Nick Folk when they made this edit that I reverted. Nearly a month later, they returned to the article to make two consecutive edits. There was a third edit made by an IP account (69.122.190.4) that I believe them to be using as the edit was a minute apart from the other edits. The IP claimed Folk was "designated for assignment" however, this does not exist in the National Football League (NFL) only in Major League Baseball (MLB). I left a note on the IP's talkpage however, I did not realize that Yankees10 had warned PrivateMaster a month earlier for a similar incident which aroused my suspicions. As it turned out, both accounts heavily edited MLB and NFL articles so I decided to do some research and found some trends.

Via PrivateMaster's account: Jason Babin ("designated for assignment"), Boomer Esiason (In this instance, the majority of the edit is fine but the disabled list does not exist in football), Kris Jenkins ("eliminated for the rest of the year"), Michael Crabtree ("disabled list"), Orlando Franklin (Trivial information under "Other"), Danny Woodhead (Incorrectly stating Woodhead "lead" the Jets to the AFC Championship when he had little playing time), Shaun Suisham ("designated for assignment"), Jonas Mouton ("eliminated for the entire season"), Billy Cundiff (There is no preseason roster however, there is in baseball), Jeremy Maclin ("eliminated from the season"), Percy Harvin ("60-day disabled list"), Rob Gronkowski ("60 day DL"), Physically Unable to Perform (addition of a link to the disabled list which is exclusive to MLB), and Joe Morgan ("eliminated from the season").

A look at the edit history of the IP account reveals a similar batch of edits: Darius Slay ("disabled list"), Shawn Nelson ("designated for assignment"), Colin Baxter ("disabled list; designated for assignment"), Albert Haynesworth ("designated for assignment"), Dennis Pitta ("disabled list"). Most concerning is an edit made back in May to the Injured reserve list which stated MLB players were placed on an injured reserve list if they were lost for the year. This is not true because the MLB utilizes the disabled list (for example Johan Santana was declared out for the year after undergoing shoulder surgery prior to the start of the baseball season—he was placed on the 60 disabled list).

For what it's worth, in addition to the consecutive edits made by PrivateMaster and 69.122.190.4 at Nick Folk, this occurred again on July 27 at Andre Gurode with the IP incorrectly stating Gurode had been ""designated for assignment" while PrivateMaster added dates in the section titles which has been a trend in the edits of both accounts (see here and here).

Being that they frequently edit MLB and NFL articles, I could see, earlier on, if it was a mix-up however, we're to the point where multiple messages have been left for both accounts and yet they are still blatantly substituting the incorrect terminology. -- The Writer 2.0 17:30, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Indef block until he decides to communicate with other editors. I don't see where he's communicating at all with any editor. Blanking and continuing the same behavior is not acceptable.
   — Berean Hunter (talk) 20:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
  • He actually has communicated with other editors - but only about protection templates, it appears, and nothing about this behavior, so I'd support an indef based on WP:IDHT if it continues. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 17:12, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

GAR discussion

I think that the discussion on Misplaced Pages:Good article reassessment/BGM-75 AICBM/1 may have become somewhat polarised. In particular, I do understand why a contributor is saying that he will bring this to ANI, if I do not withdraw the GAR. Is this manipulative? Please see this edit and this edit. I think that a calming influence is needed. Snowman (talk) 19:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, I was in the middle of writing this when I was notified of this thread. I'll post it here instead. Parsecboy (talk) 19:43, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

User:Snowmanradio, an editor who has been an editor of Misplaced Pages since December 2005, has opened a Good Article Review of the above article here. In it, s/he has demonstrated a shockingly bad understanding of both the Good Article criteria and basic practice on Misplaced Pages. For instance, s/he has suggested that the author of the article, User:The Bushranger, has a conflict of interest by participating in the review. S/he has refused to get the point that his or her requests, which are either demands for information that may or may not even exist (and if it does, is still classified) or utterly ridiculous, are in no way supported by the GA Criteria. How this editor, who as I said has been here for eight years, is so shockingly unfamiliar with Misplaced Pages policies, I do not know. But I suggest that this farce of a GAR be archived. Parsecboy (talk) 19:43, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Please note that in the GAR discussion my intention was to bring up conflict of interest only the context of an editor being protective an article that he or she has created. Snowman (talk) 19:58, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Snowmanradio, do you not understand that that only underlines how unfamiliar you are with basic Misplaced Pages practice? Authors of articles are expected to participate in reviews of their work. Parsecboy (talk) 20:04, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• I think that you are being too presumptive here. Of course, contributions to a GAR from an editor who has created the article are important, but it is possible to be "too close" or "too involved" with an article. Snowman (talk) 20:18, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• What am I presuming, exactly? Regardless, pointing out that the requests you made are completely ridiculous does not make one too close to an article. Parsecboy (talk) 20:24, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• That is a shockingly poor review, actually. I wasn't in any way involved with the creation of the article (or aware of it), but my responses to some of those review comments would have been similar. Intothatdarkness 20:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Agreeing with Intothatdarkness here. I have no idea what the hell is going on with your assessment of #5, Snowmanradio, but either you're not competent enough to be conducting a GAR, or you're being deliberately disruptive. Bushranger's "defense" of the article is perfectly valid, and no conflict of interest is apparent; why should a major contributor of an article be excluded from either improving the article, or explaining their edits? I've never participated in a GAR myself, I must admit; but from my work with turning articles into GAs, that review seems well out of touch. I suggest you withdraw the GAR pronto. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 21:03, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• It should be noted that User:Snowmanradio did not notify me of this AN/I. On the subject, I'll just say I would have no problem whatsoever with a productive GAR of that article, I fully accept constructive critcism (something on which the opposite was strongly implied by Snowmanradio in his GAR), and if the consensus of a proper GAR was that the article in question did not meet the GA criteria, I would have zero issue with it being delisted (indeed, I was honestly surprised when it passed its GAN - I had simply nominated it on a "well, nothing more can be done here, so let's see what happens" basis). I do not, however, believe that a GAR that is filled with WP:IDHT on the part of the revewier, and which could very easily be taken as a WP:POINTy nomination in response to the article in question being brought up as a challenge to this statement, serves the project at all. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 21:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Please not that User The Bushranger commented on this ANI within about 20 minutes after I had started it. Snowman (talk) 22:46, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• (ec x 3) Even I can find problems with the writing there. User:Eric Corbett would probably see red. The GAR is justified, but should probably be conducted by another editor at this point. The more general problem of making GAs out of articles where not that much is publicly known about the topic (this is a 4-paragrah GA, not counting the lead) should probably be discussed elsewhere. Someone not using his real name (talk) 21:49, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

  Actually no, not even a light Suffolk pink. The glaring omission for me though, which disqualifies it from being a GA in my opinion is the political and military background that led to it being proposed. What would it have been able to do that existing missiles couldn't, and why was that important? Eric Corbett 22:20, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

  That's a good point, and something that (honestly) had completely escaped me while writing it. I wouldn't have any problem with it being delisted until I (or anyone else, of course!) can dig stuff up on that. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:29, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

  It's not necessary to delist it if you or someone else can come up with a background section within the timescale of the review. Eric Corbett 22:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

  Unfortunatly, it would have to be somebody else, as here in Podunktown I've exhausted online sources and interlibrary loan requests usually come back stamped "lolno". - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

  • Well, as I said, I wouldn't object to a proper GAR - heck, there's been times I've looked at that article and wondered if I should do it myself - even if it was only on a "meets the letter of the criteria, but not their spirit" basis. One like this though...ugh. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

    And, IMO, that should be the issue here. It's not the question of a second review, but the lack of quality and professionalism in the one being conducted. Intothatdarkness 22:21, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

    • Indeed. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:29, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• The article (currently 337 words of readable prose) does not say who initiated the project, why was it needed, who participated in the planning stages, and it omits costs that were incurred. These are major omissions to my way of thinking and I think that this is not meat criteria 3a of the good article criteria which says that a GA should address the main aspects of the topic. The discussion is a community Good Article Review, used for controversial GAR's, for the community to decide on. Article size is not a GA criteria. The GAR is somewhat of a mess now and uninviting for community reviewers due to the polarised discussion, and I think that it probably needs restarting. I would be happy to end the current community GAR and start a second community GAR to briefly outline the important issues that I think are important for the community to look at. I am not actually sure how to close a GAR, but if it is closed then I can start another tomorrow or in a few days time and I hope the second GAR will be better. Snowman (talk) 22:46, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
  • I'd appreciate it if you would allow somebody else (like Eric, perhaps) to open a second one, instead of doing it yourself. (As for costs, that is something not in available sources...) - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
  • I've not taken part in the review, so I can close it as "kept" if everyone agrees, then a second community GAR can be opened. But like Bushranger I think it would be better all round if another reviewer did that rather than you Snowman. Eric Corbett 23:02, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
    • I would be happy for you to end the current community GAR, which needs closing, because it has been spoilt by a polarised discussion. My main interest is to see that this article is either improved to GA standard or de-listed, so I would welcome second community GAR. I have no objections if someone else starts a community GAR, but if one is not started within seven days, then I would endeavour to start the second GAR myself. I would recommend a community GAR is started rather than a individual GAR. Snowman (talk) 23:19, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

      I'll close the current review tomorrow, if nobody does else first. I'd still strongly recommend that you do not start another community review; I'll do that myself if necessary. Eric Corbett 23:32, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

      If you do that, please copy my comments from the current review, as they have been offered in good faith, even though you seem to disagree with them. Someone not using his real name (talk) 23:50, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

      If you want to comment at the review you may of course do so, but I'll be copying nothing. Eric Corbett 00:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Behavior of some Users against me

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

In the Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/User conduct/Assistance I already describe the situation: here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct/Assistance#Behavior_of_some_Users_against_me and no need to write it here again (please read it there in mentioned link). What is more interesting, the behaviour of the User:AndyTheGrump is still abusive. During discussion of this issue he wrote: I'd say that 'poor manners' sums it up nicely. Instead of apologize, he again call me man with extremaly poor manner, and moreover, he thinks that it sums up nicely. So 3 Users discuss the personality, but not an issue. Please your comments about this situation: is this kind of behaviour acceptable in Wiki? Please comment and take necessary measures for the behaviour of User AndyTheGrump.Thansk in advance. 46.71.203.2 (talk) 22:58, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

This is getting silly: see Talk:Atheism#Some very interesting and very important statistics. The IP seems to think that "please-please your comments must be reasonable" is a good way to start a thread, and that "please don't pretend that such statistics are not concern to this article" is an appropriate response to polite comments. So yes, I'll say it again: 'poor manners' sums it up nicely. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

In the link I mentioned (http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct/Assistance#Behavior_of_some_Users_against_me) I wrote and commented all this questions. Dear administrators, please read it. And as you see, AndyTheGrump is still very abusive, and this will become a precedent for other users to act like this. So, please don't allow it. Thank you. 46.71.203.2 (talk) 23:29, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

No one is being abusive to you. Multiple editors disagree with you, and that is all. If you want to press your point, go pursue the options at dispute resolution. Someguy1221 (talk) 23:37, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

IP user reporting possible child molestation

I'm not quite sure what the policy is, but I suspect this conversation should be redacted and the claim of possible child abuse be reported to someone. μηδείς (talk) 01:57, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

At Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#Closed_section_reporting_possible_sexual_assault the closing editor indicated someone at the foundation had been informed. Monty₈₄₅ 02:01, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

I missed that given it wasn't noted on the item itself. Looking at the suicide guideline I suspect it should still be redacted by an admin. μηδείς (talk) 02:07, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

I have hidden the edits. Mfield (Oi!) 04:13, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 04:25, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Yeah just to confirm I did email emergency -at- wikimedia.org as they seemed the best equipped to decide whether and who to inform even if it's arguably not a literal emergency. I didn't mention it in my response to the OP as I wasn't sure it was a good idea to say it there where the OP may read it. I'm aware of the guideline but wasn't sure whether to treat it like a normal treat of harm or suicide case so left the question and responses be rather then deleting and asking for revdel, but will do so in the future if people feel that's best and in retrospect I probably should have brought it here so others could decide whether to do so even if I didn't delete the question. Nil Einne (talk) 08:29, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Someone should take care of the sinebot edit where the IP is revealed.—Ryulong (琉竜) 08:40, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• One thing to keep in mind is that many jurisdictions have very strong new "requirement to report" laws where not reporting something to the proper authorities can come with its own criminal penalties. That was my reason for coming here even after seeing the thread had been archived. (Again, I hadn't seen Nil on talk saying he'd emailed WMF yet.) μηδείς (talk) 16:03, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Elaborate hoax articles

I have PROD'd these two: Murray Chance and The Tarsus Club. Both were written by WP:SPAs in 2010–2011, both are about a mysterious Chance family, neither has any decent sources, but both are supported by professional-looking hoax websites (which they'd be largely copyvios of if those sites really existed first). Am I right? How might we discover if there are more like this from about the same time? Dicklyon (talk) 06:09, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

The "Memorandum of Understanding between the HM Treasury, the Bank of England and the Financial Services Authority" doesn't seem to mention the guy at all (either as David or Murray Chance). So that's at least one problem with WP:V. The first three sources, which would be legit if verified, are unfortunately dead links now, thanks to the never-ending website redesigns that these money-laden orgs pull. Someone not using his real name (talk) 06:15, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

There's another hint of hoax if you search for the "one of the leading forces that helped create the euro in the 1990s" quote. That finds an article here (in a not terribly reliable source) with a near identical quote about "Etienne Davignon- decade-long chairman of the Bilderberg Group". Someone not using his real name (talk) 06:31, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Basically, the bio article appears to have been constructed by piecing together verifiable facts about several other people and then attributing the deeds to this Chance guy. I have tagged that article with CSD#G3. Someone not using his real name (talk) 06:38, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

As for the club article, none of the independent sources cited even mention it. So it's really only sourced to itself. Tagged with CSD#A7 as the fantastic claims about itself are not credible lacking even a mere mention in the independent sources cited. Someone not using his real name (talk) 07:02, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Apparently, it was some filmmakers' rather clever decision to promote their conspiracy film by creating Misplaced Pages articles on some of the shady fictional players before the film was even released. This is what they call guerrilla marketing.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 07:28, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Good catch. By the way, this is an ongoing vandalism issue. The mythical club has been added as recently as last month to three articles by an IP. Google Books finds no mention of this club. Someone not using his real name (talk) 16:04, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Section blanking of Burj Khalifa by Binthaneya (with npov issues)

I don't generally find myself doing much more than basic vandal reverts (this is my first ANI post) so forgive me as I try to do the best I can here (and hopefully this is the right place). I stumbled upon this (possible) NPOV/Section blanking issue through my regular vandal patrol. I have no ties to the page whatsoever.

User Binthaneya (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has insistently blanked the "Labour Controversy" section of Burj Khalifa (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) with edit summaries that indicate NPOV issues. Diffs of these section blankings can be found here: 1 2 3 4 - I can see no valid reason for this section to be removed without discussion.

I contacted the user via their talk page and stated that before they blank a section, they should cite sources/discuss it on the talk page. The talk page discussion can be found here with my initial comment, the user's reply and my subsequent reply. The Labour Controversy section of Burj Khalifa remains blanked as I wish not to violate 3rr. -Ryan 07:07, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• Also, a look at the twitter the user connected connected themselves to in their talk page reply (@binthaneya), indicates they are from a Human Resource company. -Ryan 07:12, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

I've restored the section and warned for WP:3RR violation, explaining that Twitter is not a good venue for dispute resolution. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:40, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

...apparently with not useful effect. The Guardian and the BBC are biased, western colonialisms. Can another admin please step in? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:43, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

User has begun making biased edits (see edit summaries) to The Dubai Mall (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) -Ryan 08:14, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Blocked 24 hours for starting a new edit war at The Dubai Mall. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 08:16, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

This is a bit strange, but the editor in the section below on AfD canvassing also has edited substantially at Burj Khalifa and The Dubai Mall. curious, especially given that they are now fairly clearly using socks. -- # ▄ 11:58, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Canvassing at AfD

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Nabil rais2008 appears to be engaging in some pretty obvious canvassing in response to some AfDs. , , , , , , , etc.

They also appear to have done the same a day or two ago in response to another AfD. See and similar edits from their contribs. That particular AfD has already been closed though. Advice, suggestions, etc appreciated. -- # ▄ 10:12, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• Yes - even though the notice appears to be "neutrally" worded, it isn't as it claims these things are all "notable". The editors who have responded to the canvassing have not even looked at the AfDs - they've just !voted "Keep" three times (in one case in less than a minute). I've left a final warning for the editor. I'm going to close and re-open the AfDs, along with a list of those contacted. Black Kite (talk) 10:43, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

The reason for canvassing is just to broaden the discussion, and inviting more participants and it does not mean to bring the decision to one side. In my point of view by inviting more participants randomly one can easily reach a consensus without any delay, as i did.

Nabil rais2008 (talk) 10:46, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• Which is why one editor came and voted Keep three times in a minute without even looking at the notability? No, notifications like this do not help. If the items are notable, let other editors decide that. By the way, where did User:Blog123 come from to vote Keep three times? You didn't even notify them, and they haven't edited for three years. Very suspicious, that one. Black Kite (talk) 10:49, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Even more suspicious when the edit summary of this diff is considered, IMHO... EdChem (talk) 10:54, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

As I mentioned, the previous AfD discussion regarding Balochistan Rural Support Programme quickly filled up with Keeps. I took that at face value and rescinded its nomination, but it appears the same thing has happened there. -- # ▄ 10:59, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• User:Nabil rais2008: The following edits are problematic: , , , . Per WP:CANVASS, these edits are problematic because the messages are not entirely neutral; they state that several sources have been found and that the topic is notable. Despite the fact that you suggest to !vote either "keep" or "delete," it appears that you're attempting to solicit keep !votes by stating the topic is inherently notable. There could also possibly be issues regarding a selective, partisan audience being contacted, in attempts to votestack, but this would require more research to determine. To avoid future problems, I'd advise you at the very least to word notices absolutely neutrally, and rather than posting to individual users, do so at WikiProjects and via Deletion sorting. Northamerica1000 11:01, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• Its ok to reach consensus again by re-starting the nomination for deletion, and lets see what opinion other users make. One thing more the User: The commandline had wrongly nominated the articles of Dubai Central Library, and Zabeel Mall for deletion, as they do not fall under section "A7. No indication of importance (individuals, animals, organizations, web content, events)" of , here: , as they are building structure are not (individuals, animals, organizations, web content, events). So please advice whether the articles should be nominated for deletion or not ??? Even though the articles are notable, so the question of deletion doesn't arises even.

Nabil rais2008 (talk) 11:09, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• Blocked. As EdChem points out above, User:Blog123 which voted Keep on all three AfDs in one minute after not editing since 2010 was previously named User:Nabil rais2010. Blog123 created Tanveer Ashraf Kaira which the above user then took over the editing of. an SPI has been raised, but per WP:DUCK I have blocked Blog123 indefinitely, and User:Nabil rais2008 for one week. Black Kite (talk) 11:13, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• You blocked Nabel rais2010, or 2008? (or both) Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 11:23, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• Yeah, fixed. Blocked the master (Nabil rais2008) for a week, and the sock Blog123 (formerly Nabil rais2010) indefinitely. Black Kite (talk) 12:05, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

It appears mostly solved for the moment, but I think it germane to the discussion (and for archival purposes) to point out that based on this, for example, (on the user page of one of the users canvassed above, but from 2011) the canvassing does not exactly look like a new thing, nor an isolated incident. -- # ▄ 12:53, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• On his talkpage Nabil rais2008 has claimed that the Mohammad adil account is not his but is editing from the same place. How does he know that, unless it's him? He also claims that Blog123 is not him. Editing history (and the gaps in his edits this morning) say otherwise. We actually might have quite a long-term abuse history going on here. Black Kite (talk) 14:13, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• He's clearly being untruthful about Blog123, given that account's previous name, so I'd be inclined to disbelieve what he says about any other user linked to him. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 14:26, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

He or she could have simply looked at my contribs. I mention that the adil account mentions Quetta, bodybuilding, etc in the SPI filing. -- # ▄ 14:32, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

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