Misplaced Pages

In an apparent effort to collect "credit" for creating articles, Captain Assassin rushes to create redirects and articles, apparently merely copying info from IMDb. Palo Alto (2013 film) was created with one (and only one) source which directly and specifically stated that the collection of stories ("Palo Alto") was expected to be made into three films, none of which are named "Palo Alto" and none of which are likely to be released in 2013. The Winter Queen (2014 film) was created as a redirect with the target only stating that filming was expected to begin in 2011 (with 2010 sources); the IMDb page likely used has now been deleted. Just Before I Go was created as a nonsensical redirect to the director. Faced with the possible deletion of the redirect, Captain created an article based on one (and only one) source that only knows of the project as "Hello I Must Be Going". In general (supporting my IMDb as the only source theory) his film articles include substantial lists of names not found in any other source (seriously: where else do you find the editor's name when the film has just started filming?). In addressing this issue, Captain says, essentially, that he plans to find sources for the information he adds after adding it. In short, it seems Captain is frequently here to collect "credit", not to build an encyclopedia. - SummerPhD (talk) 02:49, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• I've just read the editor's talk page, and I think the problem goes well beyond creating bizarre redirects and unsourced articles about possible future films. I don't think a topic ban is going to cut it here, the real problem is a total lack of competency. I would support a topic ban if that's as far as folks are willing to go, but I'm afraid the real solution is an indef block until this editor shows some sign of understanding how things work, and how he can edit productively. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:28, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Wow, what a good idea of indefinite block, am I doing wrong now? Redirects and unsourced problems are solved already, I'm not doing that again. Now the problem is moving articles or redirects, well you can have my word and see for the next time. There will be nothing gone of you if you'll just give me some time and see if I do it again. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 05:39, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I'll be very pleased if you show me to be wrong. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:27, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I'll show you to be wrong, just give me time to show my improvements. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 09:46, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

He could probably do with tidying up his signature a bit too. 529 characters to sign and date a post (especially when the I'll show you to be wrong, just give me time to show my improvements. comment is just 69 characters long). Nick (talk) 13:18, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• I'm certainly going to support an indef, having looked at this. Captain Assassin's behaviour is flat-out wrong, and needs to stop, permanently. Moving around articles on your whim, and copy-paste moves to try and gain credit is bang out of order, and this is not what Misplaced Pages is for. Add in the inappropriate new articles you've created, and we're left with an editor who is clearly WP:NOTHERE to build an encyclopedia, but is here to attention seek, by any means possible. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 16:26, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

How is my behavior flat-out wrong now? What am I doing now, I'm just saying that I'll show myself improved if you just give me some time and see. Is there anything wrong in saying that? -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 16:58, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• Capt. Assassin - recommend you post on the Film Project talk page to get other users opinions on page moves. For example, you recently moved Belle (2013 film) to Belle (2014 film), which I believe you did in good faith. I've moved it back, per WP:FILMRELEASE (the Toronto premiere makes it a 2013 film). Please read the FILMRELEASE guide I've linked to, and if in doubt, please head to the Film Project for futher clarity. The same with the redirects too. Thanks! Lugnuts 19:02, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• Thank you Lugnuts, I'll discuss the films related topics there next time. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 22:57, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• • No probs. Rather than all this topic ban nonsense, I purpose a simple "do not move/do not create redirects" until futher notice. Captain Assassin has done some great work expanding articles and I think this is a bit heavy-handed (I can't see a previous ANI about the same issue). For page moves, if in doubt either go to the film project or log a request at requested moves. For redirects, there's no need to create them as they would fail WP:NFF and will be speedily deleted in any case. Of course, if you are actually starting a new notable article, that is fine. Any of the people who brought this to ANI disagree? Thanks. Lugnuts 06:26, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Thanks again Lugnuts, but look, I'll not move any redirect or film page until I noticed you but creating redirects is another problem. Because if I'm willing to create an article (as example an adaptation) later so if I have reliable sources at the target and the film is in development so I should have created the redirect, what do you think of that? Sorry if I'm wrong but I think WP:NFF is for future films articles but I'm not creating the articles until principal photography or filming begin, I'm just saying for the creation of redirects to make them article later when filming begin. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 15:49, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

There is nothing in Misplaced Pages:Redirect which appears to justify creating a redirect for a subject that doesn't meet notability guidelines. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:01, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes and there is a thing in that to create the redirects to the sections of other articles if we need it, so I think redirects can be created if they meet notability, like I said I will only create the redirects when target articles have reliable sources and proper evidence of the redirected article and then it is a significant redirect to wait to be created into a good and expanded article later. And its just redirects man, everyone creates the redirects some have been caught ( like me :), kidding ) and others fled, it's just the matter of time. -- Assassin! No, Captain Assassin! 16:54, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Per the last comment, I would say that at minimum, any topic ban on Captain Assassin! needs to unequivocally include a complete ban on creation of any redirects. This contributor is self-evidently obsessed with 'getting in first', and such an attitude can only be to the detriment of the project. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I would agree completely with the fact that any topic ban will need to include a complete ban on creation of any redirects. Unfortunately, I cannot see Captain Assassin! being able to follow through with this. From his comments above, he clearly is not interested in agreeing to such a ban. From the conversations he has had with User:Rossami and User:SummerPhD on his talk page, he has gone back on his word to not create redirects without proper sources many times. For that reason, for his recent comments above, and his history of wanting to get "credit" for everything, I think the encyclopedia would benefit if he was permanently blocked. --Logical Fuzz (talk) 20:15, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Mo ainm

This user is reverting me on Ulster Special Constabulary. His aim seems to be to prevent me making changes to the article in compliance with the manual of style. His first revert was here but I felt that as there were no refs to support what I had done I should put them in, so I did. Then I ran reflinks to ensure the article had no bare references. Reflinks found a number. He came along again here and did a complete revert, wiping out the new references and the work done by the bot. He has then placed this message on my talk page accusing me of breaching WP:1RR. All my edits on the article page have been in keeping with the manual of style. Softening the language, correcting POV, reffing out links and running the reflinks bot. Just what I hope is expected from a hard working Wikipedian. This attempt at starting an edit-war is something I have become used to on articles relating to The Troubles but knowing it exists doesn't make it any easier to deal with when it happens - hence this report. I do not want to be dragged into a stupid and unproductive edit war. As my contribs will show I have been very active for some weeks without any difficulty, apart from misunderstanding some copyright issues which have now been largely addressed. I should add that his reverts have not been done as a result of any discussion on the article talk page. SonofSetanta (talk) 11:18, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

This editor also know as User:The Thunderer and User:GDD1000 removed sourced content, this editor is well known for edit warring, look at their block log for their 3 accounts, and as can be seen by the history of the article reverted twice in 25 hours on an article that is under 1RR, WP:BOOMERANG anyone? Mo ainm~Talk 11:37, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Clean start and User:BigDunc. SonofSetanta (talk) 11:53, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• Both of you added and removed sourced content, some of which contradicted each other. 1RR is within 24 hours, I believe. I'm not convinced either edit was more neutral than the other, either. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 11:54, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

You're correct. I removed content which alleged that the USC was hostile toward recruiting Catholics. I have the History of the RUC by Richard Doherty here, an official history. It quite clearly states on a number of pages the efforts made by the police and government to recruit Catholics into the USC and that a number of Catholics joined as a result, some of whom were later killed by the IRA for doing so. This can also be found on the web. My intention on the USC article is to more correctly reflect the truth. It is possible to find references in other books and on the web which suggest that USC was hostile to Catholics and it is a common trait amongst Irish republicans to do so. For some reason "My name" (his moniker in English) doesn't want the USC referred to as a "quasi-military" force either but the official history and other sources clearly show it to be such. Organised into brigades, battalions, companies and platoons, with military weaponry and tactics. I am somewhat baffled by My Name's opposition to this as these are well known facts and are included in the article. SonofSetanta (talk) 12:04, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I should also respectfully point out that the manual of style suggests we soften the type of language used in all articles to show neutrality. This is what I have attempted to do. I've done it elsewhere and currently have one similar article (very contentious) up for Misplaced Pages:Good articles review. It has been reviewed here and as you will see from the comments by the reviewer, it has no POV issues. That is my style of editing. It's not welcomed by editors who try to impose an Irish republican or Ulster loyalist POV on articles which is very common on the wiki, unfortunately. SonofSetanta (talk) 12:11, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• SoS drop it. Moanim reverted once on August 5th and then again on the 7th with a 34 hour gap between edits - that is not a violation of 1RR. You on the other hand waited exactly 1 hour beyond the 24 hour limit to revert him. You came to my page saying "Unfortunately I know from the many incidents of the past that talking to this individual makes no difference. Rather than having my extremely enjoyable time on here marred by getting involved in a WP:BATTLE I've decided to nip it in the bud.". You both need to discuss this. You both are reverting without discussion. You are both walking the line. But I'll remind you SoS that trying to use process to win a content dispute WILL backfire.
  And as a point of order Moanim stop bringing up SoS's past accounts where it isn't relevant to discussion. SoS: clean start does not in fact apply to you. You are editing in the same area as those old accounts and have had run ins with policies and probation in exactly the same way as you did with those accounts. In fact you should link to them clearly as past and retired accounts of yours as per WP:SOCK#LEGIT. As should the former BigDunc - that account should be linked by its owner to their current account IF they are editing in the same topic area. Otherwise issues with evading scrutiny will arise--Cailil 12:37, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Cailil I'm not accusing the guy of 1RR. What I am accusing him of is adopting an editing pattern which is designed to try and trap ME into edit warring. There is nothing wrong with my edits on the USC page and they are reffed. It's not a content war in my opinion, it's just his way of dipping his toe in the water to see how I'll react, if I'm still dumb enough to fall for old tactics. If Moaimn wants to discuss why he's making the changes then I am very willing to listen as I enjoy collegiate discussion and might actually learn something as a result. I am happily engaged in this with many other editors on a number of subject, including the USC. However, if you look here you'll see that I did try to engage Moaimn in discussion recently and was ignored. Leading me to believe that his post on the UDR talk page was just mischief making - in other words he posted the request not knowing I had already dealt with it and without reading the note I had left on the "reader comment". When I went for clean start I read the guidelines and it clearly said, as it still does, that: It is intended for users who wish to move on to new areas having learned from the past, or who wish to set aside old disputes and poor conduct. It was to prevent the familiar combative editors from using my block record against me and with the intention that I would keep my block record clean as a way of showing I had learned from my mistakes. That's easier said than done when editing in such contentious areas but; I am more aux fait with the tricks that get used against me now and largely keep myself out of trouble - as you know, barring recent copyright issues. Me raising the complaint here is my way of telling Mo-aimn that I will not fall for any tricks to get me into an edit war. The Troubles sanctions allow sysops to take action even when there is no editwarring and by drawing attention to the situation I, in effect, protect myself. The fact is: Mo was not editing the article until 5th August whereas I had been in and out since 22nd of June. So why does he appear now? What's wrong with my edits that wasn't wrong with them on 22nd June - they're along the same lines? Why undo properly reffed NPOV material? Something stinks. I'm not, in effect, seeking sanctions against Mo-aimn, but I am sending a clear message that I won't allow anything to affect my enjoyment of editing Misplaced Pages and giving something back to society. What methodology would you suggest to prevent editors who have previously engaged in WP:BATTLE on these pages from turning them into a battleground again? Also: how can I link from my old accounts when logging into them could lead to an accusation of sockpuppetry, something which was tried anyway when I changed identities? SonofSetanta (talk) 13:16, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

So now you are admitting that you set up new accounts to hide your block log and then on each of the new accounts you get blocked for edit warring doesn't seem you have learned from your mistakes. Also you are responsible for your own edits no other editor forces you to press the edit button. Mo ainm~Talk 19:42, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

It was to prevent the familiar combative editors from using my block record against me and with the intention that I would keep my block record clean as a way of showing I had learned from my mistakes. - This is not what WP:CLEANSTART is for. A clean start requires that you avoid editing in previous topic areas - this is exactly as spelled out in WP:ILLEGIT as a sockpuppet account for evading scrutiny. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 21:01, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Note that the previous accounts are now properly disclosed and I have no further concerns on this front. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 13:14, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment)"Me raising the complaint here is my way of telling Mo-aimn that I will not fall for any tricks to get me into an edit war." and "I'm not, in effect, seeking sanctions against Mo-aimn, but I am sending a clear message that I won't allow anything to affect my enjoyment of editing Misplaced Pages and giving something back to society." These seem like totally inappropriate uses for ANI. A lot of time has been wasted by third parties on SoS's "message" to Mo ainm when SoS could have simply left a note on their talk page to accomplish the same goal. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 21:39, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Lol talk-page notices to some members of the Ireland WikiProject make no difference at all most of the time. The only way to get any progress or dialogue with an editor is via AN/Is etc. Mabuska 14:32, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Footwiks - again

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Footwiks (talk · contribs) was very recently discussed at ANI - there looked to be consensus for a topic ban, but it archived without ever being formally closed/implemented. However, the editor is now back at it and I'm at the end of my tether. Basically he doesn't understand, or respect, consensus, and he lacks the competence to edit in any meaningful way to this topic. I'd like an uninvolved admin to take a proper look please, with a view to implementing the topic ban previously discussed. GiantSnowman 14:12, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

What is the problem? I edited under conseus of recent discussion. I reduced number of category like List of Persepolis F.C. players. Is List of Persepolis F.C. players allowed? Is List of FC Seoul players not allowed? Please treat fairlyFootwiks (talk) 14:20, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

No, you edited contrary to consensus on the article talk page - again. I make that the 8th time now that you have reverted to "your" version. GiantSnowman 14:23, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

No, you made a mistakes. I reduced categories. Please cheok out original vision and currenct vision.

I have a qeustions. What is the diffrence of List of Persepolis F.C. players and List of FC Seoul players Diffrence is List of FC Seoul players is little bit more detail than List of Persepolis F.C. players.Footwiks (talk) 14:27, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Please write in clear English so we can understand what you are trying to say. Let me summarise - there is consensus at the recent AFD, at the article talk page, and at the recent ANI dsicussion that the article needs a massive overhaul as its current content (as repetedly introduced by you!) is unencyclopedic and WP:FANCRUFT. The only person who has mentioned using the List of Persepolis F.C. players article as a guide/template is you, so again that is not consensus! GiantSnowman 14:29, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I said you before many times. List of Persepolis F.C. players and List of FC Seoul players contents category was community consensus some years ago. For example, Category is consists of Fomer players, Captains, Players who participate in major compettion. Foreign playrs.

List of Chelsea F.C. players and List of Manchester United F.C. players also have captain category and award winners. But they can't have Players who participate in major compettion and Foreign playrs category. Because Theses clubs have long history. So Dates are too many. Editing is impossiblew. That's why Europion famous clubs player articles have small contents categories. Where is the consensus you mentioned. Article of List of Football club players only have former playes category? That is not community consensus. That is just your private opinion.~ Footwiks (talk) 14:37, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

No, you cannot suddenly claim 'consensus' from two years ago when I have shown much more recent, very different consensus exists! Have a look at List of Birmingham City F.C. players, which is a featured list, for an idea of what we should be aiming for, and see how vastly different it is from the abomination that is your version. GiantSnowman 14:44, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• Well, I suggested a CIR indefinite block at the end of the last thread, and I'm going to suggest it again. This user will simply not listen to anything anyone has to say, but their English is so poor that they're not competent enough to contribute to the English Misplaced Pages. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 14:50, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

No, I didn't said all player list article must have 4 categories (former players, captains, world cup players. etc)

Consensus that player list article can have detalied categorires (former players, captains, world cup players. etc)Footwiks (talk) 14:51, 7 August 2013 (UTC) Don't get me wrong.Footwiks (talk) 14:51, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• Further to what Lukeno94 said above, I'm gonna suggest an indefinite block at this point, based on CIR - this user simply does not / can not / refuses to understand how we as a community operates here, and he lacks the language skills to ever be a constructive user. GiantSnowman 14:54, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

User:Lukeno94//indefinite blocking? Because of detaling editing like another article. Why only me?

I just edited like List of Persepolis F.C. players, List of Chelsea F.C. players and List of Manchester United F.C. players. So What you mean that FC Seoul players articles only have former players category. But List of Persepolis F.C. players, List of Chelsea F.C. players and List of Manchester United F.C. players can have many categories. (For exam former players, captains, world cup players and foreign players.) Pleae explain reason in detail. If you are in my case, Can you accept that? Only ] have only former category. But other clubs have detaied category. Please treat fairly. If you make all football club player article have only former category. I can accept your opion. Footwiks (talk) 15:03, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support indef - Based on CIR, I can't even understand what this user is asking much less trying to accomplish. However, I do understand that... they don't understand, either (if that makes sense). Jauersock/_dude. 15:11, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

User:Lukeno94// Do you know the rulls of Misplaced Pages:Five pillars and Misplaced Pages:Please do not bite the newcomers?

Misplaced Pages is free content that anyone can edit, use, modify, and distribute.....

So you mean that poor English speakers may throwed out....

Ok I'm poor English speaker. But check out my contributions about football for 5 years. Only my problem is editing in detail than other articles. In order to share informations, Editing in detail results in indefinite block What a ridiculus. I beleive that there is reasonable controller and user in English Misplaced Pages.Footwiks (talk) 15:03, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

If you've been here for five years, you know that you're not a "newcomer" and thus WP:BITE doesn't apply. Misplaced Pages does not discriminate against "poor English speakers", but we do require that they have sufficent competence in the language to be able to communicate with other editors. Your consistent approach in both the previous AN/I thread and this one indicates that either you don't comprehend what is being explained to you - indicating you do not have the competence to edit en.wikipedia - or that you are willingly ignoring what is being explained to you. I'm willing to assume good faith that it's the former, but AGF is not a suicide pact, and the fact you have, repeatedly, espressed the sentiment that the issue is others, not you, and you keep referring to "past consensus" for your preferred version when it has been pointed out to you repeatedly that that consensus has changed, indicates that at this time an indefinite block is in order, until it is demonstrated that you are capable of communicating, both to and from other editors, in a way that both they and you are capable of understanding, and that you are capable of understanding both en.wiki's policies and how your editing up until now has been in variance with community standards, something that, thus far, you have singularly indicated a lack of ability to do. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 15:39, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• Any sympathy I have for experienced editors who try and use BITE to worm out of sanctions for their own actions quickly evaporates. As Bushranger states, if you've been here for 5 years, you're not a new user whatsoever - in fact, that means you've had twice the time I have had to learn things, Footwiks! Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 16:30, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose blocking or banning based on wp:CIR : user:Footwiks isn't speaking the Queen's English, but most of what he seems to say can be comprehended. There is no need to block him for that. Footwiks would you please look at wp:OSE and wp:CONSENSUS and wp:CCC as "The Bushranger" suggests. If you want a template for football club list articles, Giantsnowman suggests: List of Birmingham City F.C. players which is a wp:FA. I hope you heed to advice here and keep editing. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 17:14, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Footwiks can you not use spell check before saving, that would solve at least some of your problems. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 17:28, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• Spelling isn't their issue. What you've clearly missed is that either their English is so poor that they can't understand what we are saying, or that they're using it as an excuse for behaving inappropriately. Either way, it's a textbook CIR case. They've already been here at least once, and they've been told multiple times what they need to do in order to stay out of trouble. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 17:31, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• I'd breezed through the previous discussion. He needs to look at OSE and CCC or IDHT or as suggested above by the OP and The Bushranger. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 17:41, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Indefinitely blocked. Fellow has over 12k edits! Gosh! Yogesh Khandke (talk) 17:49, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Fairleigh Dickinson University and PublicMind

This is a continuation of a slow-moving archived discussion at WP:COIN that hasn't seen any comments in a month. In a nutshell, User:Mfuzia was reported as a COI editor for his extensive paid promotion of Fairleigh Dickinson University (FDU) and associated pages, especially in connection with a program called PublicMind. (Allegedly there is off-wiki proof of Mfuzia's employment at FDU, though it hasn't been shared due to WP:OUTING concerns.) There was some discussion over the egregiousness of Mfuzia's conduct but there was consensus that he had engaged in ongoing WP:PROMOTION, that he should stop making direct contributions related to FDU, and that the FDU article would require substantial cleanup. Moreover it was determined that Mfuzia had engaged in WP:MEATPUPPETRY with User:Crcorrea. No final disposition was made, though User:DGG wrote, "If there are no continuing problems, there's no need to block." User:EdJohnston wrote, "In my opinion, if Mfuzia will agree to take a complete break from all FDU-related edits he can avoid a block."

As you might expect from my presence here, there are continuing problems. Mfuzia took a month-long break but just yesterday created an all-new, fully-formed article for PublicMind. The new article probably satisfies WP:GNG but that's not the point. The article appears promotional, but more importantly, Mfuzia was told by administrators not to add FDU-related content yet he continues to do so. I believe some sort of sanctions are in order, and speedy deletion of PublicMind might be appropriate as well. In addition I support the original request that Mfuzia be required to prominently and fully disclose his COI. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 17:38, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

The center is probably notable enough for an article, but the new article is not appropriate. I've deleted it by G11, but will certainly send the contents to any good faith uninvolved editor who wishes to use them as a start for a proper article. I support blocking the editor indefinitely, and unblocking only if I can be convinced he will stay away from FDU, Public Mind, and all related topics. I essentially extended him a last chance after some really outrageously promotional editing, and he is not able to keep from doing it. I don't think I was wrong to hope for the best, but it did turn out poorly. I do not want to immediately block before the ed. has a chance to respond. DGG ( talk ) 23:02, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I've notified User:Mfuzia that editors here are proposing to block his account. This should serve as an encouragement for him to participate here and agree to follow our guidelines regarding COI. EdJohnston (talk) 15:22, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I was not aware I had been banned from editing Fairleigh Dickinson University and all related topics. I also find it amusing that you have determined that I have engaged in "MEATPUPPETRY". This is all far too involved for me, my life does not center around Misplaced Pages, and the obsession with my "outrageously promotional editing" (hilarious use of outrageous by the way, I didn't realize something as simple as editing a couple Misplaced Pages pages could be so egregious) is old news. If I cared more, I would be offended, but considering you have done nothing but make assumptions about my intentions, I feel no need to defend myself. In a country built around "innocent until proven guilty", your conviction to stubbornness is impressive, without any real evidence. If my edits are so upsetting and warranting of deletion, so be it, I do not claim to be perfect, and I won't lose any sleep over it. However, if I see something that could use information, or needs some buffing up, I intend to continue doing it, regardless of what schools' page, or anywhere else for that matter, it is on. If it is inappropriate by Misplaced Pages's standards as an administrator deems it, I, or someone else should remove it. Lastly, I could also refer you to hundreds of other well written university pages so you can get into an edit war over their editors motives on this free, open, internet encyclopedia, if you feel so inclined. Thank you very much for reading. Matthew Fuzia (talk) 15:27, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Endorse block, enough is enough. This is COI editing of very much the wrong kind. Seeing Mfuzia's response here pretty clearly shows that this user just doesn't get it. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 21:06, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support block - per DGG's recommendation. User:Mfuzia is not a general purpose editor, he seems to work only on matters related to Fairleigh Dickinson University. He does not seem to be willing to edit in a neutral and non-promotional manner, and he doesn't wait to get consensus from regular editors before making his changes. He finds ways to add FDU-related material to more general articles where they might not be important enough to deserve space. For example this edit to the PPACA article. Mfuzia's comment above shows that he truly is not getting the message: Lastly, I could also refer you to hundreds of other well written university pages so you can get into an edit war over their editors motives on this free, open, internet encyclopedia, if you feel so inclined. EdJohnston (talk) 03:18, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Incivility, personal attacks, bad faith by User:Joefromrandb

Joefromrandb (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Several hours ago, User:Joefromrandb made this edit to a discussion of the merits of having either George W. Bush or Henry Clay on the list. His edit summary was "I get it- you hate George W. Bush; get in line", and his edit accuses me (and by extension the four other editors who want Clay on the list) Setting aside the NPA nature of his comments, the following things are wrong with his assertion of bias:

1. The primary reason for removing Bush was recentism, not incompetence
2. Henry Clay is a quite significant American political figure
3. We just removed Bill Clinton from the list
4. Clay and Bush are of the same political persuasion; Clay's Whig Party morphed into Bush's GOP

When I explained those points to him, he said that it was "a laugh", taking this as some colossal joke and refusing to walk back his allegations of political bias against five editors. Oh, and as I was preparing this thread, he not only continually refused to walk back his outlandish claims, he called me "assholish" for asking him to do so, referring in his edit summary as my request being "sauce for the goose". Could somebody please explain to him that he can't make blanket accusations like that, because I'm not getting through to him? pbp 18:03, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• I would note that this is hardly the first time this user has resorted to ad homonem name-calling of people he disagrees with: a few weeks ago, he called mops who were involved in blocking him for 3RR "children". Last week, he levied this gem at an admin he disagreed with. In addition, he has been chastised for incivility at WP:VA/E within the last 48 hours. This is clearly an ongoing pattern with him. With 2 blocks under his belt, this user probably needs a 2-week forced vacation to remind him that doing this kind of behavior repeatedly is uncalled for. pbp 18:14, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
  • In all fairness, I've made that observation about quite a few administrators; not just the ones who've blocked me. Joefromrandb (talk) 18:26, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
    • Um, that doesn't make it right, it actually makes it worse. You just admitted to calling even more people names than the people in the diffs I provided pbp 18:53, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
      • I did? Joefromrandb (talk) 19:19, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
• FWIW, Joe's disruptive actions are continuing. A few hours ago, he made a spurious soapboxing claim. And, for asking him to stop soapboxing, he accused me of being a troll and acts like being told to stop his incivility and personal attacks are some sort of joke. This has got to stop, and I'm afraid a block is the only way to do it. I again ask admins to review Joe's many unacceptable attacks on admins and non-admins alike pbp 05:07, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
  • When you want to accuse someone of "making a spurious soapboxing claim" it probably isn't a good idea to include a diff of the actual soapboxing. Just some food for thought. Joefromrandb (talk) 05:35, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
    • 'Cept for the following two points, buddy: a) the original posting wasn't soapboxing, and b) the diff is only you. Look, the fact remains that you have acted without regard for policy and guidelines vis-a-vis civility and AGF, and for that, you should be blocked pbp 13:33, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - Purplebackpack89, have you considered just disengaging and finding something else to do for a while? Your reporting is somewhat misleading (October 2012 is hardly "a few weeks ago") and this all seems like a tempest in a teapot. When you find yourself getting this upset about something, it's best to take a breather and come back in a day or two. I don't see any point in this bickering and I really don't see any point in blocking someone over their rhetorical style. --Laser brain (talk) 13:47, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Um, all the other diffs are from the last two weeks, and most are a lot more than "rhetorical style"; they are flat-out personal attacks. He repeatedly engages in personal attacks, and laughs off requests to be civil. I am very disturbed by his recalcitrance, and you should be too pbp 15:26, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

69.117.174.122 (looks like a sock puppet of 67.87.140.155)

Appears to me that I saw the Disney's Greatest Hits and The Disney Collection: The Best-Loved Songs from Disney Motion Pictures, Television, and Theme Parks and I saw "Yellow" Volumes. There is no such volume as a yellow volume. And this time,69.117.174.122, appears to be doing it. Looks like a sock puppet of 67.87.140.155 since he did it like that. ACMEWikiNet (talk) 19:03, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I am being hounded

user:Kmzayeem is stalking me and I want it stopped now. He is following and reverting me for not reason other than to piss me off, a merger discussion is reverted twice an article is redirected at the beginnging of a merger discusison twice He has turned up at mt last few DYKs and articles I have created, he is violating policy in not letting a merger discussion run and also violating the hounding policy. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:20, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, we have something called "Watchlist". Seriously stop thinking about yourself so much, nobody have any interest in hounding you. I usually edit articles related to Bangladesh and many controversial articles are in my watchlist. Chittagong_Hill_Tracts_Conflict was already in my watchlist and when I first time saw the article Bangladesh_Civil_War earlier yesterday, I watchlisted it.--Zayeem 19:26, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• You shouldn't be reverting the merger discussion... 19:28, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

A brand new article just appeared on your watchlist? Pull the other one. I guess the DYK just popped up as well then? You are following my edits and violating policy in doing so Darkness Shines (talk) 19:32, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Ok, both of you:

STOP!

Both of you are blockable under WP:3RR - I see 6...7 reverts on the Chittagong Hill Tracts one by each of you. This is your only warning to cease and desist. Kmzayeem, I don't know if you were fully aware of the policy, please read the WP:3RR policy page and abide by it going forwards. Darkness Shines, you have been around long enough, you knew this already.

Regarding the reverts, on point of information, it is not proper to remove or flip such a proposal to redirect or rename. The proper process is to discuss it on the talk page(s) and propose the alternative. The only exception would be a clearly intentionally disruptive proposal, in which case you should ask for neutral editors or an administrator's help rather than start edit warring.

I don't know which of the proposals is more correct on the content points, so I leave that to discussion on article talk pages. However, I strongly urge you all to leave it as is and discuss on talk rather than making any more changes to the listed merge title.

Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 19:38, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Ya, I have three reverts, and had to do an edit request on the talk page wasting admin time over this disruption, you do not change the target of a redirect once the discussion has begun., that is common sense. Darkness Shines (talk) 20:04, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I would suggest the article should at least be restored until the merge discussion is completed. Whilst the content is in the history, it's not ideal for editors to have to look at a previous revision in order to comment. Black Kite (talk) 20:13, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

The article Bangladesh_Civil_War is a dulpicate of Chittagong_Hill_Tracts_Conflict so I redirected it per this. I had also discussed it on the talk page. --Zayeem 20:19, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I know what CSD#A10 is, thank you, and it didn't apply here, because even if the article is about the same topic it is nevertheless a plausible redirect. However, as soon as the merge discussion was attached to the article, you should have stopped redirecting it. There is no deadline, and the issue can be sorted out through discussion. When it is, it may well be that the new article becomes a redirect to the old one. But to reiterate, that is a subject for discussion. Black Kite (talk) 20:30, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Black Kite, I support the restoration while discussion is done on talk pages. I would do it but am about to be mobile for some time and may not be able to respond if someone has an issue with it. Are you comfortable doing so? Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:33, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I wasn't going to because I declined the 3RR against Darkness Shines on the edit-warring noticeboard. Is there another admin that could do so, please? Black Kite (talk) 20:36, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Alright, just a question, if the merge discussion remains without a consensus for years (as happening in many articles), should we be having two duplicate articles on the same topic?--Zayeem 20:42, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

If the articles are indeed about the same subject there should surely be a method of merging the detail from both into one article. Or, are we merely talking about the actual name of the article here? Black Kite (talk) 20:50, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I've restored the version with the merger tag. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:54, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Black Kite, The articles are about the same topic, even DS would agree with it, which is why I redirected it. The new article has nothing new except the title, all the info are already present in the original one, which also appeared in DYK. I suggested him to start a move discussion on the original page if he has concerns regarding the title.--Zayeem 21:00, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

(outdent) I've offered my views on the procedurally correct handling of this issue here . Since the new Bangladesh Civil War article is technically a (presumably inadvertent) fork of the existing article, the correct course of action is to move it into a user space subpage, install a temporary redirect to the existing article in its stead, then merge whatever parts of the content of the new Bangladesh Civil War article are superior into the old page; then, if necessary, begin a move discussion about where the resulting page should end up being. Mark Arsten, as the latest protecting admin, would you agree with this procedure? Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:37, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:43, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

User:Horatio Snickers under the bridge

This account came to my attention through this asinine response to someone's "recruit editors from prison" proposal. Looking through his contributions I see only a handful of article space edits, all but a few of them problematic (a copyvio, a bit of Forteana, a pointless statement about a play, and a slow-news-day story about a badly-behaved zookeeper). Meanwhile his talk page shows several warnings about trolling the reference desk. I see a lot of deliberate (if low-level) disruption and I suspect he's some banned person's sockpuppet, but at any rate he doesn't seem to be here to any good purpose. Mangoe (talk) 21:42, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

That seems to be a serious proposal with robust civil discussion taking place. While his response was a bit odd, I found yours to be much more troubling. This is an absurd complaint, even by ANi standards. Joefromrandb (talk) 00:24, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I have to wonder at whether you even looked at this editor's history. Mangoe (talk) 01:33, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for notifying me about this discussion. I don't think there is anything wrong with my contributions to the discussion about Misplaced Pages edits from prison, nor in fact about any other of my edits. I will admit sometimes I have a fairly robust style, but I am willing to address any points people may have about my edits here, and invite anyone to do so on my talk page.

As regards your claim that I am a sock puppet, I will say what I said before - if you have evidence, produce it, rather than making vague allegations on noticeboards.

On that subject, I note that User:AndyTheGrump has created a sock puppet investigation Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Technoquat. It would have been polite of him to have informed me that he was carrying out this investigation. What I found most surprising is whilst browsing the site earlier today, I saw there was a notice from an unrelated user on my talk page - a message informing me of the investigation. That user has now been blocked and the message has been permanently removed. Whilst I understand this may be due to the fact that the user was blocked for actually being a sockpuppet - it seems unusual that their only edit was to notify me of something that is actually the case, and for that then to be removed and oversighted. It almost seems like this is some kind of secret court! I will respond to the accusation on the SPI page.

I am attempting to integrate myself into this community and the hostility I have experienced from some editors is alarming. Thankfully it seems there are some good people out there too. Horatio Snickers (talk) 16:40, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

If you wish to 'integrate yourself into the community', I suggest that you do so by actually contributing something useful to Misplaced Pages. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:45, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

We seem to be having problems with our reading. I did not claim that you were a sockpuppet, I merely voiced a suspicion that you were. It was intended as an invitation for others to look at matters and review your behavior. For myself, I don't really care about your integration into the community. What I would like to see is positive contributions in the form of article editing. I'm not seeing that. Mangoe (talk) 18:01, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Horatio, I don't really think your comment in the VP discussion is a problem. And the copyvio doesn't actually look like a copyvio, though I could be wrong. The SPI will end however it ends. And if you want to ask dumb questions at the ref desk, I'll let them handle you themselves. But if you add any more crap to articles, I will block you indefinitely. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:49, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

User:71.228.233.195

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

For a while I've been trying to clean up the page List of Mystery Science Theater 3000 episodes, as the article often seemed to border on WP:FANCRUFT and contained far too much trivial or redundant information. There was a column in the list that indicated which episodes were available on home video, which format they were available on, and whether the releases were currently in stock on certain websites. All of this seemed unnecessary, as there is a page entitled Mystery Science Theater 3000 video releases which lists that information already.

I removed the column and immediately User:71.228.233.195, who I already had had disagreements with, immediately reverted the changes. The user brought it up on my talk page in User talk:Friginator#MST3K Video Releases.|this discussion] (sometimes with a questionable level of civility, as seen here) and eventually I basically decided to let the issue go. However, recently, other editors have also agreed that the "Home Video Availability" needed to go. This was quickly discussed on the talk page, and another editor (96.237.242.65) removed the column. Since then, 71.228.233.195 has begun reverting any and all changes made to the page in an attempt to keep it the way it was. I, along with other editors, namely User:96.237.242.65, have been reverting changes made to the page on a daily basis. I would have taken this to WP:3RRN a long time ago if I believed that this was merely a content dispute, yet it is apparent that 71.228.233.195 is not interested in improving the article, but simply changing it back to the way it was before the recent cleanup attempts. They have reverted the edits of multiple bots and editors, all in an attempt to halt any work being done on the page. This is disruptive, plain and simple. The user has made no attempt to gather consensus, has made very few direct counterarguments to the points I have made on my talk page, and very rarely leaves edit summaries.

Also, it's worth noting that 71.228.233.195 sometimes edits through the 199.48.24.10 address, but seeing as both IPs are located in Nashville Tennessee, and both are making the exact same edit over and over, so it's safe to assume they're the same person.

I've tried to avoid taking this issue to a noticeboard for a while now, as the issue seems 'extremely' petty and insignificant, but it needs to stop. There's simply no way to improve a page when someone is hell-bent on reverting every edit anyone makes to it without discussion. I would appreciate it if someone would intervene, as not many people seem to watch the page in question. Thank you. Friginator (talk) 22:53, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• OK, that's just purely disruptive. I have blocked both IP addresses for a month. If they persist by shifting to other addresses, ask for page protection. Black Kite (talk) 23:01, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Disruptive behavior at Digvijaya Singh

A section above, Misplaced Pages:Ani#A_complaint_about_User:Sitush, was closed without action taken, since it was judged to be a content dispute. That's true in part, but the other part is that we have a very decent BLP with two tags on it, and a talk page full of wikilawyering, with walls of text and persistent accusations and commentary of the "I did not hear that" kind. The instigator here is what appears to be an SPA, Soham321. It seems, for instance, that the "political dynasty" claim (found toward the bottom of the article), is reason enough for a POV tag, whereas the claim is reliably sourced to this article. It also seems that Soham is unwilling to allow commentary by Aditi Phadnis to be included, when that person is plenty notable and the commentary well-sourced. Note also the repetitive yammering over a couple of edits reverted by Sitush in the middle of the unwieldy talk page, Talk:Digvijaya_Singh#Recent_reverts. Those particular edits and reverts are old news, in a way, but they go to show that this has been going on for far too long.

Looking through the talk page discussion and the ANI thread, it seems pretty clear to me that Sitush is judged to be editing well within the guidelines set by BLP, NPOV, RS, and whatever else you want to throw at it, according to such users as Yogesh Khandke, RegentsPark, and (on the talk page, see section "Other Controversies"), A.amitkumar. Note that I have hereby pinged them, and I do not wish to suppose that they all agree with Sitush, just that they have, at various points disagreed with Soham's various, lengthy, and numerous complaints.

To cut a long story short, since we've wasted enough dinosaurs and electrons on this, action needs to be taken here. A block for disruption is a possibility, but it seems to me that a topic ban for this particular article (which could be extended to others if Soham persists) is no more than appropriate, given the enormous amount of energy this is taking. Let's not drag this out any more: I'm hoping for a quick solution, though I am open to other suggestions. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 23:40, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

• One more thing: I just noticed there's some back-and-forthing on Soham's talk page about personal attacks; I have not looked into that and thus have no opinion on them. I urge both editors to keep their cool, and I hope that was a redundant comment. Drmies (talk) 23:42, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Heh. See, I said you should get your bit back. Quick solutions for contentious editing on Indian articles - you are a legend... Joking apart, Mr. Sitush takes far too much stick in this area, and needs support (or, ridiculously simply... his own bit), and I agree with what you say. That's of no use whatsoever, of course, since I have no bit, and I now return you to your regular programming. Begoon  23:47, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

@Begoon, "ridiculously simply... his own bit" has been suggested in more general terms but is not going to work here or indeed in any of the many articles where I find myself in trouble. Soham means well, I suspect, but there is a distinct lack of clue and it is not improving even when others try to point out their misunderstanding of OWN, NPOV, BLP, RS, CONSENSUS etc. The obvious solution would be a limited topic ban that enables them to learn our ways in a less charged environment (these Indian politicians are up for election over the next few months, so things are only going to get worse for those of us who are trying to keep things even-keeled). Soham has already been warned about ARBIPA and so a discretionary sanction could be imposed. Whether that would work if based solely on matters relating to one person in Indian politics is less certain because Soham has had difficulties with at least one other such article also, although I acknowledge that they seem since to have backed away from that voluntarily. As to the reason for their behaviour, well, I vacillate: sometimes it seems like competence issue, sometimes like IDHT, sometimes like POV/COI, sometimes just troll-ish and so on. It really is rather baffling to me. - Sitush (talk) 00:29, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Point taken - sort of... WP:INVOLVED is therefore wrong if it prevents editors with the best interests of the encyclopedia as their motivation from acting in said interests. On this particular case I may be mistaken, but in general it would take quite an essay to convince me that long-time experienced users of your calibre in a contentious area do not need, and would not use the admin bit well. Whether you want it is of course another issue, and that would be up to us to encourage you. These are the broken areas, which therefore need the most attention from editors proven to have our best interests at heart. Anyway, off-topic, and said now. Best. Begoon  00:41, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Begoon, thanks, and if it were up to me I'd warn Soham and then wait for the next edit to bring the block hammer down: their edits have a knack for being disruptive, so that wouldn't take long. But I can't do that, nor do I really want to--the subcontinental business is already difficult enough, and before you know it someone says "oh you're Sitush's drinking buddy". Well, I'm not (we're thousands of miles away), but I am a friend of his, and I appreciate what he's doing for the project. All the while I will maintain that I have no problems with being objective in this area, but for me to block Soham is like throwing chum in sharky waters. So what I want is a solution built on a consensus, not just on one admin's (!) decision. Drmies (talk) 00:50, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Well yeah, and hence why you asked instead of acting. That's what we're all about, and it's proper and good. I just think we desperately need good actors in that area, and if you can think of a better one than Sitush I'm all ears. Begoon  00:56, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• I was going to raise this at ANI as the back-and-forth is very unhelpful. I had hoped that Soham could become familiar with Misplaced Pages's procedures, and I've spent a significant time urging that, but if something isn't done now, the user will harden in their habit, and will cause lots of disruption before the inevitable happens. I was going to ask that an admin issue a clear notice that Soham must stop talking about Sitush, and must start applying WP:AGF, and must engage with the discussions. Soham regards Misplaced Pages like any other website where opponents are parried—whoever has the greatest dedication will win. Perhaps a firm resolve here could persuade Soham to focus on article content, and to realize that we don't cherry pick text from policies to counter opponents (particularly when inexperienced). Sitush's above suggestion ("a limited topic ban that enables them to learn our ways in a less charged environment") is exactly what is required, but that's a radical idea as the community generally wants to see more blood before acting. My concern is that there is a potential for Soham to become a useful editor, but that will never happen unless firm action is taken now. I guess all we can do is form a consensus per Drmies—a short block if disruption continues. Johnuniq (talk) 01:17, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Johnuniq, my apologies--I meant to give you a shout-out/ping as well in my posting. Actually, I think that a topic ban is preferable over the threat of a block, so if you want to go "per Drmies", I'd prefer it per toward a topic ban. Drmies (talk) 03:43, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Agree I would agree on the topic ban, to prevent further time drain of other editors, we could possibly use Sitush elsewhere instead of he logging in everyday to justify a counterclaim on that talk page and also if this ban would push Soham productively to other areas of WP (seeing the contribs of Soham being lately solely to this one page makes him almost a single purpose account).  A m i t  웃   03:09, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I have the following comments to make:

• User:Drmies is an admin on this site, and i respect this fact. Never the less, i had taken him for DRN where the mediator had ruled in my favor and against him. For link: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_71 (title of the discussion is 'Narendra Modi'). This was after we had a somewhat nasty exchange on his talk page. After the DRN,however, i had apologized to him and he claimed he had accepted my apology.
• User:Drmies made the present complaint about me after User:Sitush (with whom i have been having a long running dispute on the page http://en.wikipedia.org/Digvijaya_Singh ) wrote on Drmies's talk page complaining about me. The fact that Sitush and Drmies are on familiar terms is evident when Sitush also disclosed about the birth of a new child in his family and Drmies congratulated him for this. I thought this was odd considering http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_forum
• Sitush was seen asking User:Johnuniq on Johnuniq's talk page on how to handle me. Again odd considering http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_forum and indicating that the two are on familiar terms.
• The only editor in the main article under discussion who had also participated in the previous ANI complaint against Sitush that i had made was User:A.amitkumar and he had expressed his agreement with me that Sitush has taken ownership of the article under dispute in violation of WP:Ownership. It is true that i had a disagreement with User:A.amitkumar after i objected to some of his edits, but we reached WP:Consensus after he allowed me to make some modifications to his edits. Sitush, however, unilaterally removed all of amitkumar's edits (and also my edits) from the main article. The complete 'Debates, Disputes, and Controversies' section was unilaterally removed by Sitush in the face of objections by me and User:A.amitkumar.
• There is a 'factual accuracy is disputed' tag on the main article as of now. This was based on my discussions with Sitush on the talk page by another editor indicating that there are others who agree with my position.
• My understanding based on when TransporterMan had ruled in my favor (and against Drmies) in DRN is that in a disputed edit, at least two reliable references must be given. That is why i had objected to Sitush inserting widely speculative claims of Aditi Phadnis which in my opinion violate the Balance and Impartial Tone clauses in a DRN. That is why i had asked Sitush to provide another reliable reference for the claims of Phadnis. TransporterMan had written the following in the DRN: "Whereas WP:V or WP:BLPREMOVE provide minimum standards for inclusion, the "belongs in the article" language of WP:WELLKNOWN (and it's repeated in the second example of that section, not reproduced here), seems to say that material reported in multiple reliable sources should be included, and would appear to have been adopted as a bright-line test to resolve disputes just such as this one. It would take some digging to find it, but long ago I went to some effort to find out what "multiple sources" means in Misplaced Pages policy (though more in the context of the various notability standards, rather than this particular policy) and found a very clear answer that it merely means "more than one," and does not mean "many." This is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_71 (The title is 'Narendra Modi').
• I also believe the following sentence inserted my Sitush is erroneous: "Mool Singh, the incumbent MLA, announced then that he would not be contesting his Raghogarh Assembly seat in the forthcoming elections, paving the way for Jaivardhan to be elected in a form of dynastic succession that is common in North India but rare in the South.". I have given my reasons why i believe this edit to be erroneous in the talk page. Let us name the disputed sentence as Edit 1. After my initial objections to this sentence Sitush had modified it to make it Edit 2. I found even Edit 2 to contain an error and after a somewhat lengthy discussion with Sitush in which he allowed me to have the last word i modified Edit 2 to make it Edit 3. When he saw this, Sitush reverted the edit back to Edit 1. I have explained why i believe Sitush's edit is wrong on the talk page of the article. See the sections 'Inaccurate edit of User:Sitush' and 'Inappropriate phrase used by Sitush'. This kind of behavior, i have explained in the talk page (see Section 'Disputed Edits'), makes WP:Consensus impossible to achieve and is indicative of WP:Ownership.
• I did not engage in edit warring on the main article with Sitush and allowed him to retain whatever edits he had put in place in the main article even though i continue to believe them to be erroneous.
• I am a relatively new editor at wikipedia and i do not have 'friends' like Sitush does. Never the less, i believe i have a lot to contribute to this site. As an example, please consider the content i had added on the page of Voltaire in which i had given a primary reference to my edit. (Yes, it got reverted but i have initiated a discussion on the talk page) http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Voltaire&diff=567483169&oldid=567479275
• If the person judging my case decides to ban me, i will accept the punishment and quitely go away. Soham321 (talk) 03:41, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support topic ban as per Drmies, Amit, and the wall of text by Soham321 right above me. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 07:39, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support topic ban I had to check the first link in the above where it was promised I would find the mediator ruling against Drmies (here). That's a bit of a LOL I'm afraid because it shows that Misplaced Pages's dispute resolution procedures are even worse than I had imagined. With infinite patience, Drmies pointed out that some edits by Soham were not really what is expected, and gave two diffs: diff1 shows Soham adding a section with title "Usage of Foul Language" to a politician's BLP, and diff2 shows Soham adding a section titled "Alleged involvement in Haren Pandya's murder" to the same BLP. I suppose the DRN volunteers are used to situations where one bad group of POV warriors is battling another bad group of POV warriors, but even so, the reply to Drmies is most disappointing. The two diffs I just repeated are instantly recognizable by any experienced editor as off-the-wall unsuitable, and the fact that the mediator was able to keep a straight face while suggesting some middle ground is, well, breathtaking. I'm firming up in my view that if the community doesn't get set a higher standard on early policy enforcement, we are going to be overrun with nonsense. The DRN incident was three months ago—no wonder Soham is so confidently brushing advice aside now! Soham's last comment (an echo of a "if do get banned from the site, it won't be a big deal for me" reply made two days ago diff) is a worry as it indicates that further engagement may be unproductive. Johnuniq (talk) 07:53, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

The diffs which Johnuniq is citing were not disputed at all by me in the DRN. This is what the mediator told Drmies also in the DRN. I have given the link to the DRN discussion as well as the title and i request readers here to see the discussion rather than believe the disingenuous and misleading statements of User:Johnuniq. Soham321 (talk) 08:08, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Also, my statement which Johnuniq is referring to was simply to state that i am not a professional wikipedia editor. It is not my full time job and i do not stand to make any money by making edits or participating in discussions on the site. Also, i would like Johnuniq to explain why Sitush wrote on his talk page on some advice on how to handle me. Does Johnuniq know Sitush personally? Soham321 (talk) 08:29, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• It is my experience that DRN never works for India-related stuff. Perhaps it does for aspects related to Indian geography but it never has for caste, religion or politics on any occasion where I have been involved. That is why I have decided not to waste my time with it in future. That it hardens the position of clearly misguided contributors is probably because (a) the subject matter is unfamiliar to those who are mediating and (b) there seems to be a desire to be all things to all people. Perhaps, though, I've just got a very jaundiced opinion. - Sitush (talk) 08:05, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• DRF may or may not work for certain topics but it needs to be present as a mediation mechanism. Also, editors who show disrespect for wikipedia rules and guidelines by simply removing disputed content which has been taken up for discussion in DRN should be penalized in my opinion. Soham321 (talk) 08:21, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• It's old age, Sitush... Drmies (talk) 14:08, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support - a ban from articles relating to politics in India, broadly construed and to include all namespaces. Thought I'd best make this clear, since people are picking up on one of my comments above. I've no opinion regarding the length of the ban. - Sitush (talk) 08:05, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• I considered writing that i also support a ban on Sitush from writing on the Digvijaya Singh page, but then decided against it. Instinctively i am against banning anyone from any page unless it is something really serious. I am satisfied that we have the 'neutrality is disputed' tag (put be me) and the 'factual accuracy is disputed' tag (put by another editor--based on the talk page discussions between Sitush and me) on the main article which as of now is composed almost entirely of words written by Sitush. Soham321 (talk) 08:33, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support topic ban as phrased by Sitush just above. We really, really need to protect useful editors from the attrition and burnout this kind of wikilawyering and stubborn WP:IDHT causes. Length? Either one year or indefinite. As second choice, I'll support any other topic ban people can agree on here. Bishonen | talk 08:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC).

• I just noticed that my edit "Views on Hindu nationalist groups" (with a different section heading but same section content) on the main article under discussion which had been unilaterally deleted by Sitush has now been restored on the main article thanks to another editor. Strictly speaking, a version of this edit had been in place and i had simply made some additions and modifications (english corrections and making it conform to WP:NPOV). Soham321 (talk) 08:55, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose topic ban or any administrative action: Action on Misplaced Pages isn't punitive but it is preventive. Soham321 is prepared to abide by consensus regarding his behaviour, if an uninvolved admin delivers the message, the community should wait and judge before taking action against him, he is a new editor, only a few months here, the community shouldn't wp:BITE him. He could be given a warning per (User:Drmies): "Begoon, thanks, and if it were up to me I'd warn Soham and then wait for the next edit to bring the block hammer down" Also Soham railing and ranting against Sitush would make things worse, my experience is that whatever his limitations, he is evenhanded, and the community has immense faith in him, we think him to be a Herculus in the Aegean Stables Augean stables that the Indian related content are.(Yogesh Khandke (talk) 15:28, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) They have had umpteen warnings and explanations but have chosen to ignore them, For example, this thread warns and advises, as does this one. Then there were the comments about OWN in the prior ANI thread linked above, Talk:Digvijaya Singh is full of them and I'm pretty sure that there are loads more that have been deleted from their own talk page. In addition, we have ludicrous situations such as this (yes, I lost my temper there and walked away for a bit) and, really, despite all the words about accepting consensus they are not in fact doing it, perhaps in part because they seem not to understand what the policy means. Consensus, to them, is more or less a case of my way or the highway. Misrepresenting what people have said is another trait and seems to be used to bolster their wayward interpretations of policy etc. Really, it is quite scary and I think they should count themselves lucky that no-one has suggested an outright indef from the project for reasons of competence. That they are new is belied to some extent by the fact that they have been citing policy virtually from the get-go, albeit usually doing so incorrectly. If they can cite it, they can read it. - Sitush (talk) 15:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Sitush, writing about me, says: " That they are new is belied to some extent by the fact that they have been citing policy virtually from the get-go...". In other words, he is suggesting that i am a sock puppet of some other (more experienced) user. I deny this accusation completely. The reason i came to know of some WP rules and guidelines relatively quickly because i was interacting (and clashing) with more experienced editors and they were bringing up the WP rule book to support their stand. And so every time this was done to me i knew more about WP rules and guidelines. Of course, i did some reading on my own as well. Soham321 (talk) 18:50, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• One more warning delivered at AN/I, wouldn't hurt the project, I request the community to give him one more chance. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 16:16, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• I went back to the archives to see if other editors have complained about User:Sitush. I found this very interesting thread: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive798#Editor_.28Sitush.29_behaviourial_issues
• There is also mention of Drmies in this discussion. Specifically: "BTW I have an impression that the user talk:Drmies page is used by the clique to coordinate attacks against disagreeable contributors. One can see how they discussed (and defamed) me there, without even notifying me, although I did not cross their paths except this single message...".
• I was impressed also by: "All these edits of Sitush are just to agitate other editors. He knows that it works well. He knows that Mr.T gets short tempered and would violate WP:3RR and then he can be blocked. He also knows that i have for various times abandoned editing such articles where someone is simply playing in a puddle and throwing dirt. That is also true with various other editors and not just me. He is using all these strategies to irritate us all.I propose that he be topic banned from editing this and other related articles. He may choose any of his buddy-editors to edit the article instead of him; you know if he is really very caring about the readers and Misplaced Pages and such moral stuff. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 05:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)" Soham321 (talk) 21:55, 8 August 2013 (UTC) Personally, I have always avoided confronting Sitush on the main article with respect to reverting his erroneous edits because i know he is more experienced than me when it comes to 3RR and this statement of User:Dharmadhyaksha struck a chord with me. Soham321 (talk) 21:55, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

The last bit indicates to me that you need a full site block or, at the very least, a complete topic ban from all Indian politicians. Sitush has never, as far as I know, been sanctioned, despite being brought to ANI dozens of times. In fact, most times that people complain about him, the complaining editor is either warned or sanctioned. Plus, the only mistake I've significant mistake I've ever known Drmies to make was to give up his administrator status. Out of an overabundance of discretion, I took a look at the talk page, and it is clear that you don't understand or don't care about WP:BLP. Deliberately including random rumors, unproven clams of malfeasance, etc., are one of the worst things we can do, and the fact that you're doing it on a politician up for election soon strongly implies that you're acting out of personal interests to damage this person's performance. Of course, we all know that I'm either Sitush's drinking buddy and/or sockpuppet, so I can't block you myself. I hope there's still some admins left who are willing to intervene on matters of this type. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:09, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• The 'Views on Hindu Nationalist Group' in the main article under consideration is a section that had been put in the main article by me and unilaterally deleted by Sitush. It has now been put back in the main article by some other editor. And some other editor has put a 'factual accuracy is disputed' tag on the main article based on my discussion with Sitush on the talk page. So claims that my edits or my posts are all nonsensical are themselves nonsensical in my opinion. Soham321 (talk) 22:18, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• The 'Other Controversies' section had been put in place by User:A.amitkumar and not me. I myself had told him in the talk page that i did not believe this section has biographical value, but i reached WP:Consensus with him after he allowed me to make some modifications to his edits. Soham321 (talk) 22:21, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• I find it curious that User:Qwyrxian should write: "Deliberately including random rumors, unproven clams of malfeasance, etc., are one of the worst things we can do, and the fact that you're doing it on a politician up for election soon strongly implies that you're acting out of personal interests to damage this person's performance." In other words, according to Qwyrxian (Q) i am against Digvijaya Singh. However, Sitush has been accusing me of being biased in favor of Digvijaya Singh. May i suggest that Q and Sitush first confabulate with each other and decide whether i am against or whether i am biased in favor of the concerned politician. Soham321 (talk) 22:26, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: I'm traveling and don't have the time to see how disruptive Soham321's edits are but there are definite competence issues here and the fact that this is still going on (I warned Soham as far back as July 26th here), and looking at Soham's comments above, makes me think a topic ban is a good idea. --regentspark (comment) 22:31, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• After the warning of RegentsPark i had clearly desisted from reverting Sitush's edits on the main article and had confined myself to discussing his edits on the talk page of the main article as can be seen. My posts on the talk page had two consequences: first, a complete section titled 'Views on Hindu Nationalist Groups' which had been inserted in the main article by me and removed by Sitush was re-inserted by another editor. And secondly, a 'factual accuracy is disputed' tag was put in the main article by another editor. In my opinion, RegentsPark should have avoided making a judgement on my edits when he claims he has not even seen them. Soham321 (talk) 22:43, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• The diff that regentspark gives is of the 'Other Controversies' section which was posted by User:A.amitkumar and subsequently reverted by me since i thought they were not conforming to NPOV and did not have biographical value. Eventually, after regentspark's warning amitkumar put his edits back on the main article. I then interacted with amitkumar on the article talk page and he allowed me to modify his edits to make them conform to NPOV, so we reached thereby WP:Consensus. But then, the entire section 'Other controversies' was removed by Sitush. In fact, 'Other Controversies' was a part of a secton called 'Debates, Disputes, and Controversies' and this whole section was removed by Sitush. One section of this portion ('Views on Hindu Nationalist Group') has now been re-inserted by another editor. Soham321 (talk) 23:03, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Soham321, just as a clarification, I'm not commenting on the content of your edits (and this is not the right forum for that anyway). Rather, it is the way in which you respond to comments or other editors that is the problem. A topic ban is not necessarily a bad thing. Work in other areas, demonstrate better awareness of how to deal with other editors and with conflicts, and the ban can easily be lifted. --regentspark (comment) 00:46, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• If you expect me to grovel before Sitush, that is not going to happen. The fact that i was able to reach WP:Consensus with User:A.amitkumar after initially having serious differences with him shows that i am capable of reaching consensus in a reasonable manner. The link i have given earlier to another ANI thread shows that there are other users who have experiences similar frustrations with Sitush that i have had to go through. User:Pectore also has in this very thread voiced the same frustrations of interacting with Sitush that i had to go through. The very fact that i was not indulging in edit warring, was allowing Sitush to retain what i believed to be inaccurate edits in the main article, and was confining myself to criticizing his edits in the talk page of the main article should count in my favor in my opinion. Soham321 (talk) 00:58, 9 August 2013 (UTC

Groveling before anyone is not required. Frankly, the fact that you seem to think that that's what is being asked of you is probably the best indication of the fact that you don't understand how things work here. --regentspark (comment) 01:43, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

The word 'grovelling' came to mind because i went from the thread http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive798#Editor_.28Sitush.29_behaviourial_issues to the very interesting user talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Mrt3366 where an admin writes to the user: "I'm not expecting any gratitue and I don't expect grovelling either." Soham321 (talk) 01:55, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• RegentsPark writes: "it is the way in which you respond to comments or other editors that is the problem." I would like to point out that there are other editors who have the same view of User:Sitush. For instance: I have the same impression as Dharmadhyaksha. I have been following the article and its talk page for some time. It is obvious that Sitush is constantly doing and saying things which would constitute blatant baiting (WP:BAIT}. He appears to be baiting MrT3366 in particular (who does not seem to understand how ridiculously common and succesful baiting is on WP, or what baiting is). I would urge that suitable action be taken to prevent Sitush from baiting others.OrangesRyellow (talk) 14:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC). And also, I was wrong in writing this all. I did not realize this before. The more chance you give Sitush to speak, the fouler it starts getting. Please close this thread. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 16:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC) (All quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive798#Editor_.28Sitush.29_behaviourial_issues ) Soham321 (talk) 01:23, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I reinserted the Hindu nationalist material. Digvijay is mostly notable for being a controversial politician, and he became very famous after stating his allegations the RSS had some sort of cover-up involvement in the November 26, 2008 bombings in Mumbai. My experience with Sitush on this page has been negative. I dug up the controversy section (as is), because it was a well-sourced section with verifiable and notable information relevant to Digvijay's broader notability. However, upon digging this back up, I self-reverted and deleted a few of the sections, as they were not as germane to his notability. This prompted Sitush to go on a long rampage of sanctimonious edit summaries, given that he didn't understand I merely resurrected the material (from his edits until ). I don't think banning Soham will improve the content in any way on the page, and that Sitush is hardly blameless in this matter. Hence, Oppose topic ban.Pectore 23:25, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Not my edits: they were there before my time. You are miffed, Pectore, because you dislike my removals of other stuff elsewhere per WP:BLPCAT. And you are still miffed now. I am trying to improve the standard of the Singh article across the board, almost everything before the "Controversy" section that you reinstated is indeed my work - roughly, we've gone from this to this, via your effort here. In the complex interim, Soham has added nothing other than rebuttals of criticism and long-winded attempts to have certain well-sourced items that might reflect poorly on the man removed. My biggest single removal has indeed been the huge, meandering controversy section, some of which is now incorporated within the chronological structure of the article in order to minimise the "moths to a flame" nature of such sections when separately identified. Your reasons for opposing an action against Soham seem to me to have little to do with their behaviour and a lot to do with your present feelings regarding me elsewhere. - Sitush (talk) 00:33, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• The section that Pectore has restored in the main article had been inserted by me into the main article, and subsequently removed by Sitush along with some other edits of mine and also of User:A.amitkumar. (Strictly speaking, the section inserted by me, deleted by Sitush, and now restored by Pectore had existed in the archives of the article; i modified it to make it conform to NPOV and added one additional detail to the section.) I had only voiced my concerns about Sitush's editing in the talk page of the article and did not indulge in edit warring with Sitush on the main article. Soham321 (talk) 00:43, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

By the way, until the community decides one way or the other, i am not going to participate in any more edits on any main article. However, i will continue to post on the talk pages of articles and talk pages of users. Soham321 (talk) 00:45, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose t-banLooking through the diffs given by Sitush in their 00:33, 9 August 2013 comment, I think Sitush is trying to whitewash the article of negative content about the subject. That he is doing it before an election year is setting off some alarm bells for me. I think Soham321 and Pectore are trying to make the article NPOV and should be given all support and Sitush should take a break from editing the article.OrangesRyellow (talk) 01:18, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
• Comment: Trust me, Soham321, ranting against Sitush isn't going to get you anywhere. It will only make matters worse for you. I think I need to be a more detailed with this, check his talk page, he's been accused with being anti-foo from all angles, anti-Hindu, anti-Muslim, anti-Sikh, anti-Modi, anti-India. So editors/admins trust his judgment. So when anyone rants against Sitush, it is like ranting against the judgment of scores of editors. You're not the first and will not be the last. It would do good to digest user:PinkAmpersand's comments on user talk:OrangesRyellow's talk page, date stamped 21:15, 24 June 2013. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 02:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Soham you write: "After the warning of RegentsPark i had clearly desisted from reverting Sitush's edits on the main article and had confined myself to discussing his edits on the talk page of the main article as can be seen." Would you please provide diffs to provide evidence. Assuming Soham is heeding to warnings, it is a clear sign that he is amenable to advise. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 02:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• I am not sure how i should provide diffs for what i have not done. There was in fact one occasion when i did make a modification to Sitush's edit in the main article. The sequence went like this. Sitush had an edit (call it edit 1). He changed it (made it edit 2) after i criticized his edit on the talk page. But since the edit continued to remain erroneous in my opinion i continued to be critical of it and he let me have the last word. So i removed what i thought to be the error in his edit, and made it edit 3. Sitush then did not revert the edit back to edit 2. He reverted it back to edit 1. Details about this incident are present in the talk page of the article (http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Digvijaya_Singh#Disputed_Edits ). When he did this i did not attempt to edit war on the main article but confined myself to pointing out his behavior in the talk page. It is my belief that this kind of back and forth makes WP:Consensus impossible to achieve. Soham321 (talk) 02:42, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

You could provide RP's warning diff and a link to the history of the article page as evidence of your not editing the page after RP's warning. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 03:04, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Clear legal threats

By User:Manish 8726: , . --NeilN 03:43, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Blocked. Gamaliel (talk) 03:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

And can I get some eyes on Swaminarayan‎? The "other side" is inserting the decidedly non-neutral . --NeilN 03:57, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

IP blocked for edit warring. User:PantherLeapord warned that they were also edit warring as this did not come under a 3RR exception. Dpmuk (talk) 16:58, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Richard Warren Lipack

I recently encountered Richard Warren Lipack (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Based on edits like this one (including the delightful section "'They had the internet already discovered back in the 1800′s!!!! They have SO MUCH HIGH TECH STUFF that they have been hiding from us for centuries!!!!' This claim by Nguyen is scientifically correct and today is supported by the recently discovered only extant manuscript journal of telegraph inventor William Fothergill Cooke."), I think it is safe to say that Mr. Lipack's judgement about the nature of reality can legitimately be questioned. On his talk page, he admits that he is also Epochwiki77, which brings us to Epochwiki77's magnum opus, William Fothergill Cooke. A quick perusal of that article's history shows that it was essentially created by Epochwiki77, and relies heavily on http://www.w1tp.com/cooke/ , which, unsurprisingly, is the account of a private journal of William Fothergill Cooke that was discovered by one Richard Warren Lipack.

My first instinct is to revert the article back before Epochwiki77's first edit, block both accounts, and just deal with this with some combination of WP:IAR, WP:COMPETENCE, and WP:ILLEGIT (on the argument that the name "Epochwiki77" was chosen to hide the relationship to Richard Warren Lipack). Before I do that, I'd like to hear suggestions.—Kww(talk) 06:24, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Maybe a topic ban is in order as it seems like the editor has single-minded focus on Tequila. The amount of work that went into the contribution to Tequila's article is substantial though it completely off-topic and inappropriate for Misplaced Pages. Or just keep Tequila's page protected.

I don't think a site-wide ban is called yet but a review of William Fothergill Cooke might be in order. I just think that if he could make a diligent editor if he accepted Misplaced Pages standards on RS. I don't agree with his worldview but if he can keep the conspiracy rants out of his work, he could be a productive user. Newjerseyliz (talk) 12:06, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I think an indef block is more than appropriate at this point. We should not be wasting a second more of time discussing semi-literate tinfoil rants about lizard people, Illuminati, and a D-list reality tv personality. Drop the hammer, and we find better things to do. Tarc (talk) 12:53, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Oy vey...I just looked through this and my brain is oozing out of my ears trying to escape. Support indef - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 13:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Note that the same editor has also used Epochwiki77 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 13:11, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Users shouldn't be banned, especially indefinitely, just because they have kooky ideas. I mean, who knows what kind of ideas other editors have that they never express? I'm sure there are regular editors and Admins who have peculiar beliefs. We can't police minds, only conduct. The content he posted was not encyclopedic and didn't have credible sources and it was rightly reverted.

Remember, the focus on contributions, not contributors. If he can read up on Wiki policy and standards and adhere to them, he shouldn't be prevented from editing. But if there is a particular hot topic that he repeated edits in a disruptive way, he can be given a topic ban, not a site ban. Newjerseyliz (talk) 13:37, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

The user is not (with any luck) being blocked because of holding these ideas, we don't practice Thoughtcrime around here. They would be blocked for acting on them, edit warring to insert them into a WP:BLP, and posting crazy, semi-coherent screeds within edit summaries and to user's talk pages about how to contact them to discuss/demand that this material be retained. This is base incompetence. Tarc (talk) 14:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm disappointed that this was acted on so quickly, without even hearing from the individual you've now indefinitely banned from the website. I don't think he was incompetent, he just didn't honor Wiki MOS, perhaps due to ignorance about policies and practices. I guess I don't understand why, when so many other issues on noticeboards and dispute pages linger around for months without a resolution, that a total ban was decided upon in less than 24 hours. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newjerseyliz (talk • contribs) 22:59, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support indefinite block. Edits show that this contributor is clearly not competent to edit Misplaced Pages. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:47, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support indef block and overhaul the William Fothergill Cooke article. GiantSnowman 13:51, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Aha - with those links from KWW, now it becomes clearer. It looks like the entire focus of this user's edits is popularizing this "Codex Lipack", allegedly a diary of Cooke that he found (and named after himself, of course). That's the source he's using for all of his edits to the Cooke article (which is probably the epitome of Misplaced Pages:No original research) and that's the motivation for adding all the conspiracy stuff to the Tila Tequila article, since it seems that she may believe him, and she's sort of famous. I don't see any productive edits in that. (It's theoretically possible there are some, because of the great-wall-of-text style he uses, but finding any in the cruft is a real challenge.) If Newjerseyliz or someone else is willing to personally mentor this user, we can let her try, but I suspect the game may not be worth the candle. Otherwise, I support indefinite. --GRuban (talk) 13:53, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

As an aside, would anybody be opposed to me being BOLD and reverting to this version which was the last one before Epochwiki77/Richard Warren Lipack started editing? GiantSnowman 14:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Done. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:15, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Good work. GiantSnowman 14:21, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support topic ban from the articles on William Fothergill Cooke and Tila Tequila, and support roll back of both articles to their state pre this editor and Epochwiki77's contributions. I agree with NJL that a blanket ban or indef block is too big a hammer to bring down right now, but I have to be honest and say that I do think it may be necessary in the future. Kim Dent-Brown 14:17, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support indef block This user is textbook WP:NOTHERE. Whether this is due to a competence issue, or the fact they just want to mess around and troll isn't relevant; they're not constructive at all, so they need to go. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 14:30, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support indef block on the basis of competency and no evidence that they're here to benefit the encyclopedia. Other edits by Epochwiki77 are only a little better, and we don't need to enable hoaxers or the deluded. Acroterion (talk) 16:46, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and blocked both accounts.—Kww(talk) 19:58, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

After less than a day's consideration? Why the rush? Why not wait for the user to respond to this posting? He hasn't even been on Misplaced Pages today to see the notice of this discussion and there is no "block" posting on his Talk Page that even informs him a) what happened on the one day he's not on Misplaced Pages and b) how he could appeal a block.

People say that these banning actions aren't personal but the only conclusion I can draw is that a half dozen editors thought he was a kook and wanted to kick him off Misplaced Pages. I'm not defending the quality of his contributions but the process here stinks. Some editors get away with atrocious behavior and don't even receive a warning while others get immediately and completely banned without a fair hearing. Newjerseyliz (talk) 23:01, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not a court of law, and Lipack can respond on his talk page, if he so chooses. But yes, using Misplaced Pages to promote crackpot nonsense will usually lead to a quick exit. WP:NOTHERE and the like. Resolute 23:19, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

The block message he receives tells him how to appeal, Newjerseyliz. For me, it wasn't so much his beliefs as it was the suspicion that he was intentionally perpetrating a hoax.—Kww(talk) 00:45, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Other affected articles, including Coca-Cola

Per this and these two press releases, we also need to closely scrutinize and/or revert his contributions to Coca-Cola. It appears this user has been significantly abusing Misplaced Pages to provide support for his personal agenda. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 19:04, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Those contributions begin here, by User:Epochwiki77. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 19:07, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

User talk:176.58.218.42 vandalism

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User is vandalizing Nationalism page. Jahgro (talk) 19:48, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

User talk:74.120.133.55 will not stop with the soapboxing

The above user has been an a tear about some perceived "plot" being hatched in Gilberton, Pennsylvania. There is clearly soapboxing at that page's talk (see last section). He added (and then deleted) more yesterday (diff), at which time I left him a final warning about it on his talk (diff). He responded to it with more rant. Note that he was already blocked once for 3RR on the Gilberton page. Certainly seems like WP:NOTHERE to me. At best, he is an extreme WP:SPA with a serious bit of "lack of clue". Will notify IP user immediately after I finish this. Gtwfan52 (talk) 07:13, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

There appears to be plenty of coverage of this issue by RS at the moment judging from a google news search, probably enough for something to be added somewhere at some point if it passes the WP:NOTNEWS threshold. The IP just doesn't appear to understand Misplaced Pages policy at the moment. Perhaps if someone worked with them on on the article talk to find proper sourcing, showed them how to cite things, how to comply with NPOV and avoid OR they might calm down. Sean.hoyland - talk 09:26, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

There is coverage of the police chief's rant. I certainly haven't seen anything about anthrax, ricin, the overthrow of the government, the national guard, armed insurrection or any of the many other things he is going on about. Did you actually read it? I suspect this is a WP:CIR issue, and that is in your ballpark, not an editor's. Gtwfan52 (talk) 17:44, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Oh yes, I read it, and other comments, including the "honestly, I want CIA to put a bullet in his head" comment at Talk:Pat Robertson (which hasn't been removed yet and for which he probably should have been blocked) and the puzzling, given his activity level, "My daughter is going to be born Monday" from July 28. Call me cynical but I'm not convinced blocking people like this works. They just come back. Their soapboxing definitely needs to stop though. I usually just delete content like this from talk pages (in the WP:ARBPIA topic area where it's pretty commonplace) and cite WP:TALK/WP:SOAPBOX. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:46, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I did that at the city article. I am not comfortable doing at any article I am not involved in or on his talk page. Thanks for your help. Gtwfan52 (talk) 22:09, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, now a long term registered editor, User:Sweetfreek, is at the Gilberton, Pennsylvania page, spouting the same (word for word) rhetoric as the above IP. It doesn't take an expert to see WP:DUCK here. I have done again what Sean told me to do regarding the soapboxing, and reverted his edit per the already established consensus on the talk page. I did ask him to come back and try to discuss the situation sans the rhetoric after the city council meeting, so we have a better idea of where this is going in order to make a reasonable addition to the article, which, if we can keep the rhetoric out of it, is probably unavoidable. I hate controversy sections in small town and school articles, as they almost never are truly anything meaningful with time perspective. I am certain enough of the quack that I am not going to notify him. The IP already was, but if someone here thinks it needed, go for it.Gtwfan52 (talk) 02:58, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

User talk:Vikirefractoryworks

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Continues to use talkpage for spam after being blocked. Requesting talk page access revocation. (Note that it is an IP that did this - please also consider blocking the IP and/or protecting the page.) Ginsuloft (talk) 10:06, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Peter Seabrook article

An editor keeps erasing my entries and seems intent on using wikipedia as a publicity platform for Peter Seabrook instead of a balanced article which includes criticism. Using wikipedia in this way constitutes a conflict of interest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seabrook.Ellis (talk • contribs) 10:13, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

You appear to be edit warring with a number of other editors. Please don't do that. If you have a dispute about the content of the article, please discuss it at Talk:Peter Seabrook, and quote published reliable sources for your views. This does not need administrator action, unless an administrator decides to block you for continuing your edit war. - David Biddulph (talk) 10:55, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I think we have another "defender of justice". Seabrook.Ellis's edits have been troubling, to say the least, with a lot of unreferenced BLP additions to Peter Seabrook about some sort of controversy concerning the use of peat. Given the relative youth of their account they need a quick heads up about BLP policy and referencing as well as WP:SPA. Blackmane (talk) 15:26, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for not notifying me (the other editor) about this report, as explicitly requested in the edit notice. Your username would appear to indicate that you are the one with the conflict of interest and your edits reveal that you apparently have an axe to grind with the subject of the article, Peter Seabrook. Just don't grind it here. --ukexpat (talk) 16:49, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Suggest Seabrook.Ellis reads WP:BOOMERANG and an admin reads this Arjayay (talk) 19:08, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I deleted the user subpage. It was an attack page alleging criminal activity naming specific individuals - in other words, a huge BLP violation.--Jezebel'sPonyo 20:12, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

User:Tinamckintyre23

The above user has been disruptively editing for quite a while, See and
She was also , upon returning she deciding on goading User:AnemoneProjectors ,
I had originally reported to AIV but was pointed this way ,
Thanks - →Davey2010→→Talk to me!→ 16:48, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Someone said this user quacks just like User:Sheep 2009, and having reminded myself of Sheep 2009's edits, I can't help but agree. –anemoneprojectors– 17:01, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Request for mediation / opinion

Hi, I'm writing this message because I have had recurrent issues of personal conduct with the user Guardian of the Rings (talk · contribs), because I feel he is being casually abusive in his dealings with me. I don't feel I am doing anything to provoke this, save perhaps this snarling edit summary (as he called it). But I wrote this only after messages which I deem offensive, as he accused me of "blindly reverting as if you had no functioning brain" and referred to my talk page messages as "babble (that) is merely a breath of desperation. The underlying content dispute, about a template, is being solved in a discussion at TfD. In the future these problems could be avoided if we simply avoided talking to each other, but at least for the duration of the TfD, I want to be able to say my opinion without being constantly faced with similar messages: diff, diff. He also repeatedly deleted my messages from the TfD diff, diff. I tried to talk to him on his user page, and the discussion seemed promising for a while. But his edit summaries remained the same, "just surrender, you really have nothing of use to add to this discussion anymore", and ultimately he deleted the user talk discussion and told me: and perhaps you could mind your own business by staying within the confines of your WikiProj as much as possible and bear in mind WP:COMPETENT...it seems you have no inkling of half the things I am talking …. But there is no reason why I should limit myself to one WikiProject. I'm not topic-banned from anything, so he has absolutely no right to kick me out of the discussion. I want to continue to contribute to the discussion and the WikiProject, and without being faced with "snarling messages" each time. Clearly, one of us (or most likely both) is doing something wrong, and an outside view would be welcome to make it possible for both me and Gotr to discuss the template without being at each other's neck every time.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 17:41, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Same problem different day: from the archives. Toddst1 (talk) 20:35, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Have you tried the dispute resolution noticeboard? I'm not an expert on dispute resolution, but it seems that such requests usually go over there before coming to ANI. CtP (t • c) 20:36, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

DRN is for content disputes, AN/I for behavioral. Nformation 20:43, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) This does not appear to be a content dispute. As the filing editor here has stated: "The underlying content dispute, about a template, is being solved in a discussion at TfD". This is a behavioral issue and belongs here because we have no other place to deal with behavior. This is an incident I feel needs administrative attention. I don't know the full ins and outs here but clearly the content dispute is being dealt with.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 20:45, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

So the Etiquette Noticeboard, or whatever its title was, disappeared? GotR 22:49, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Closed after a community discussion Nformation 22:57, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the link. These large developments often pass under my nose. GotR 23:07, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

To save the passerby's time, Underlying lk has not noted the unexplained, the frowned-upon, wholesale reverting of edits, parts of which have no relevance to the content dispute, which evoked this (overly) bitter response. The rest, I don't believe he has hid, although I interpret failed retorts that mimic the post being reported to as counterproductive and indicating he has exhausted his talking points, due to the inherent lack of a substantive opinion. GotR 23:07, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

You say that your bitter response was caused by my reverting, which might very well be, though it doesn't explain why all the bitterness continued when I stopped reverting. But don't you think that my 'failed retorts' might have been evoked by failed retorts of your own, such as "what a small mind, can't even focus on the more important of *two sentences"? This is not a situation that can go on indefinitely, it makes it impossible to discuss changes when every next message leads to more squabbles. I think you will agree that the attempt to solve it between us proved fruitless, which is why I am asking for help from other editors, not because I intend to waste anyone's time.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I view the first half of this response as a matter of personal opinion; your reply immediately following is, too. Well the lack of a substantive response to the finer details (if needed, link in 13 hours) of my defence begs any rational person to ask whether you have one at all or may well be evading the issue altogether for no particularly good reason. This aspect of your conduct I remain wholly dissatisfied with. GotR 03:44, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Breastfeeding and -- autism?

This is not, strictly speaking, an ANI matter, perhaps, though it could easily turn into one. I'm just here to get some attention. There's some contentious back-and-forthing in the article history and the talk page, and the issue concerns a supposed relation between (lengthy) breastfeeding and autism. No dispute resolution or mediation seems to have been tried (as far as I can tell), and I think the matter needs attention from outside editors--preferably, of course, knowledgeable ones--before it gets out of hand. Thanks, and with apologies; I'd look into this more, but I have a date: ten years ago, to the day, Mrs. Drmies and I tied the knot, so we're off for some off-wiki festivities. Happy monogamy, or of course polygamy if that's your game, Drmies (talk) 21:50, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Don't you get enough attention on ANI/2? Happy Anniversary!--Bbb23 (talk) 22:09, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Some of the same points of contention were raised (by the same editors) in a parallel discussion at Talk:Breast_milk#Benefits_in_cognitive_development. The two discussions should probably be consolidated and handled at the Breastfeeding Talk page. I'm not a doctor, and I don't want to play one on Misplaced Pages. Xenophrenic (talk) 00:17, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

More inappropriate blanking of Turkic-related articles

I previously posted at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive806#Requesting rangeblock of 217.76.68.0/24 about an issue of blanking of Turkic-related articles from a range of IPs. The page Kyrgyz people is now having similar inappropriate editing done. Can a rangeblock of the IPs in question be considered? Jackmcbarn (talk) 22:40, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

 Done Rangeblocked 1 month. I'm inclined to agree based on the contribs that I can see. Nothing but nationalistic POV pushing for the last several months...let's see if 1 month will help.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 02:40, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

"Iraqi air force" legal threats

87.210.135.210 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) has requested the speedy deletion of Post–World War II air-to-air combat losses. In a posting that includes "The leadership of the Iraqi air force, "the former" deplores this publication and otherwise may turn to international justice and demand compensation for psychological damage caused by this article..." Fairly sure that's an unambiguous legal threat, etc, just passing the ball for comment, no opinions here. Benea (talk) 23:30, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I just reverted it as a pile of incoherent gibberish. Just move on and ignore it, IMO. Tarc (talk) 23:36, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Blocked per Misplaced Pages:No legal threats. Gamaliel (talk) 23:42, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

You indeffed an IP for an incomprehensible legal threat? While I tend to agree with Tarc, a block is certainly within your reasonable discretion, but indef is way overkill on an IP. Monty₈₄₅ 00:40, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Monty, that was anything but incomprehensible. They used an awful lot of words...but strung together they say "legal threat". Those that violate NLT are idef blocked until they retract the threat in an unambiguous manner. Seems easy enough. If they don't want to retract the threat, they don't really want to edit here and build an encyclopedia. Seems simple.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 00:46, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Except we don't indef IP editors because an IP shifts owners, unlike an account. If we indeffed every IP who made a legal threat, we would have alot more then 78 IPs in Category:Indefinitely blocked IP addresses. Monty₈₄₅ 01:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

See also Misplaced Pages:Blocking_IP_addresses#Indefinite_blocks. Monty₈₄₅ 01:02, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

The IP does appear to be quite static (the IP has been harping on that article since last october), so a very long block would be appropriate, though I would not go for indefinite. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:05, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

What are the other options besides indef?--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 01:11, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I typically place a block for about the same length of time that the IP has been in continuous use by one person, which in this case would be about a year. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I agree. Unless there is some evidence that the IP is editing from an open proxy, the block should be modified to a year (also per Monty).--Bbb23 (talk) 01:44, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)So then by that logic the legal threat is no big deal when its an IP, but when its a registered user we throw the book at them? That doesn't sound right. Why should IPs get away with a lesser block when nearly everyone else registered is indeffed? This makes no logical sense.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 01:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Oh, come on, because IP addresses are used by different people, so you're not just sanctioning the individual, you're sanctioning other individuals who might be allocated that address.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:55, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

This was part of my reasoning. I saw that the IP had been making similar non-legal edits and complaints to the same article for some time, indicating that this editor was almost certainly the same individual. I will split the baby in half and shorten the block to two years. Gamaliel (talk) 01:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Gamaliel. To Mark Miller, basically, what Bbb23 said. Some IPs are shared by multiple people, and some IPs change owner on a time scale of anywhere from years to hours. Giving them shorter blocks than we would give an account is simply due to the difficulty in knowing who is using an IP. Someguy1221 (talk) 02:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't that mean your are assuming that the IP will change hands? And in only issuing a temporary block you are really just cutting someone slack who has the potential to be the very same person acting as a different individual after the block expires? What this says is, we are limited in what we will do, because of the inherent nature of IPs that we have no answer to. I assume that someone who ends up with a blocked IP after the other individual no longer has it (for whatever reason) could well be under the time of the block and could still be blocking an innocent individual. So this still makes no sense, although Gamaliel's decision could be seen as a compromise.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 02:13, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and thank you Monty for those links. Didn't see them earlier!--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 02:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• The entire thing is ridiculous, particulary when you consider that most of 'The leadership of the Iraqi air force, "the former"' would now be quite dead, usually from 9mm hemorrhage. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:31, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Perhaps, but the part that should be looked at as the actual threat is "...may turn to international justice and demand compensation for psychological damage caused by this article". It still meant to create a chill effect.--Mark _{Just ask! WER TEA DR/N} 02:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Extraordinary claims

These claims in the lead at Mindfulness-based stress reduction seem to be promotional and without scientific evidence. "It is thought to be effective for treating ailments including alleviating pain and improving physical and emotional well being for individuals suffering from a variety of diseases and disorders…….Through meditation individuals increase their self-awareness, which leads to a greater unity between the mind and body. Research into meditation and its health benefits has been widely accepted and the concept of mindfulness-based stress reduction was created out of the desire to understand these benefits more closely. A mindfulness-based program is beneficial to those suffering from chronic illness, anxiety, depression, as well as other problems. The benefits of using a mindfulness-based program have been proven to be effect regardless of type of program or length." I think an Administrator needs to look at this.--LarEvee (talk) 00:31, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't strike me as that extraordinary. Go through and substitute placebo for it, and there would be plenty of evidence to back that up too. Turns out the placebo effect is quite powerful. Really, the problem is that the language is a bit weasely, and oversells itself, but its not so blatant that normal editing can't fix it. Not an admin issue. Monty₈₄₅ 00:37, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

OK, thanks, is there a psuedo-science or medical club here that I could get advice from?--LarEvee (talk) 01:20, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I've never done anything there, so I can't speak from experience, but Misplaced Pages:Fringe theories/Noticeboard might be helpful. Monty₈₄₅ 02:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Ferret baiting

Some completely uncalled-for baiting of Malleus going on at Transportation of animals (NB talk:). Will someone please stamp on this ASAP, before it gets out of hand. Andy Dingley (talk) 00:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Unproductive; collapsed. TY Andy. Drmies (talk) 01:04, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

So once again baiting goes unaddressed. Eric Corbett 01:40, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

But it was addressed and mostly because it was you. For most editors, there would not even have been a report filed at ANI; nor would any action likely have been taken had one been created.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:51, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Are you kidding me dude? Hillbilly posted an article containing personal information with the sole purpose of mocking and baiting another user, and then proceeded to edit war without any purpose other than to get a reaction. It's unacceptable behavior no matter whether it's directed at Eric or an IP, and is borderline WP:OUTING. Eric chose to make his name known here, but Hillbilly obviously didn't randomly find an article from 2004 in a Manchester news site. This whole thing was designed to harass and bait. --Laser brain (talk) 02:11, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

My assumption was that Eric objected only to the latter part of the topic. Frankly, I thought the whole topic shouldn't have been on the talk page. I would have just removed it all. BTW, I don't mind in the slightest your disagreeing with me, but could you please not call me "dude"?--Bbb23 (talk) 02:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the dude. I agree that even placing it on the Talk page was a poor decision. Edit warring it into the article was disruptive and way over the line. --Laser brain (talk) 02:21, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Speculating much Laser Brain? I was working on an article called Transportation of animals, (in fact the previous edits were concerned with transporting ferrets in particular). I think the ferret-hammock piece definitely comes under that umbrella, I brought it up on the talkpage first, linked to Eric's name so he would know that I was considering adding the material. Another editor agreed that it should be added, so I did. You can see on the talkpage I wasn't baiting anyone, just trying see funny side of it all. I've always held Eric in high regard, and am surprised that he took offense. I do apologize for the 'old chap' remark, which could be considered over-familiar. -- Hillbillyholiday 02:33, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• My apologies for misreading earlier; I thought it concerned the talk page only. The added text was, even if intended in good spirits and humorously, not of proper encyclopedic level--that should be obvious to someone like Hillbillyholiday, who seems to be an editor who knows what's what. Restoring it ("not taking the piss") is disruptive, and Hillbilly could have shown better manners: you know what's going on and you should have known better. DracoE, you know I love you, but come on--if a girl says no, it's no, simple as that. If everything else fails I can invoke BLP which would urge us to be cautions. But seriously, Hillbillyholiday81, that was not a good move on your part. Eric, I'm sorry that I did not look more carefully the first time. Drmies (talk) 02:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

The article has had something of a history of funny-but-true facts and I thought that the ferret-hammocks quote would perfectly fit the bill. As Eric himself pointed out on the talkpage, the fact that ferrets can now happily travel within the EU was in some part due to his efforts. The material could have been worded differently or trimmed down perhaps, but it was relevant to the article. I undid Eric's edit because his comment 'taking the piss' was simply not true, and not a comment on the validity of the edit. I have no intention of restoring that material if Eric doesn't wish for it to be there, but I must reiterate that I wasn't trying to 'bait' him, I was just trying to raise a smile. Don't worry, it won't happen again. -- Hillbillyholiday 03:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

• Surely part of the aggravation was that this was on the main page as a DYK at the time, right? Add ferrets, by all means, but the timing was perhaps a bit insensitive. Stalwart111 02:43, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
• I agree with Laser Brain's comments about about baiting. I've just removed the additions from the page history as disruptive. It seems clear they were added to get a reaction out of one editor, and are definitely WP:POINTY if not harassment. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Or maybe that was an overreaction on my part. I guess if anyone thinks it's unwarranted they can revert me. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Again, I refute the accusation of harassment or pointedness or whatever. The information was relevant, sourced, and IMO (whisper it) 'quite funny'. For what it's worth, Mark, I think your wholesale deletion just then was uncalled for. I've been around long enough to know not to ask for assumption of good faith at AN/I, so I'll leave it at that. -- Hillbillyholiday 03:31, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

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