Misplaced Pages

Procedurally moved here from WP:ANI. – Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:15, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Appealing user

drg55 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Drg55 (talk) 06:04, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Drg55

Administrator imposing the sanction

Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise&diff=562793562&oldid=562793465

Statement by drg55

1. Rush to judgement, I was topic banned from Scientology and religion before I had a chance to respond. 2. I am being accused under Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Scientology#Single purpose accounts with agendas I have exposed in http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Bare-faced_Messiah#Complaints_by_User:Drg55 that user MartinPoulter has an agenda against Scientology, http://infobomb.org/ Not only is he giving talks "around the country" (usually in pubs) http://biasandbelief.wordpress.com/martins-talks-and-lectures/ but he has a 20 year history of attacks on Scientology in alt.religion.Scientology http://www.spaink.net/cos/mpoulter/scum.html ("Three religions take your pick" by Martin is incoherent undergraduate abuse) Martin mentions "bias research" on his user page, but does not mention his history of antagonism to Scientology http://en.wikipedia.org/User:MartinPoulter#Scientology.2FDianetics He claims credit for writing the Bare-Faced Messiah page along with Prioryman who complained about me leading to my block. 3. Scientology is one of the most popular items on the internet in Misplaced Pages we out rate Christianity yet what is characteristic is a new form of fascism which is intolerant of other points of view, I described it as (unreconstructed neo fascist) hence the rush to block me contrary to neutral point of view. 4. The edit which resulted in a warning for me was my deletion of a line from a newspaper article which was factually incorrect by comparison with the book. Prioryman calls this original research, I call it an unreliable source. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Bare-faced_Messiah&diff=560476870&oldid=560410248 http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Bare-faced_Messiah&diff=559685829&oldid=550158142 Additionally in the summary of the book I added in that disaffected Scientologists were a source, Prioryman said that was original research, so I deleted the lines about FoI docs and stolen diaries being used in the book, as they were not sourced either. I think a little common sense would apply as per WP:IAR. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Bare-faced_Messiah&diff=560477183&oldid=560476870 5. Fut.Perf says: "I don't think I need to read much further than the "unreconstructed neo fascist" bit or the "our critics are generally insane" bit here . Topic-banned. Fut.Perf." Actually our critics are generally insane and go completely overboard applies mainly to the sources used in the book and some of the other attackers over the years and is one reason why we are still here. It is a bit of a freudian slip where Fut.per identifies editors as critics. 6. The article has a section "Reaction from Hubbard's followers", surely here one would find some comments. I put some in http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Bare-faced_Messiah&diff=562506859&oldid=562495611 Prioryman called them bad sources. There is a difference I have had trouble getting across to him that while yes a blog may not be a very good source, just like newspaper articles which are rushed and rewritten from previous articles as source, but if a person makes a personal statement in a blog, and the object in this case is the "Reaction from Hubbard's followers" then it is factual and valid. Similarly with the Scientology website and and Independent Scientologist website on Bare-Faced Messiah (wise old goat - Michel Snoeck), which is referenced here http://scientologistsfreezone.com/links.shtml. As it happens while I used to be an official for the Church and I have discussions with them from time to time I have been told they don't like me referencing Freezone Scientology, and they would prefer if I wasn't editing Misplaced Pages Scientology references for that matter. I don't happen to agree with the Free zone, but then I don't always agree with current management either, however I support the Church for pragmatic reasons, more right than wrong. I put these quotes in because Prioryman wanted me to get a source to say that BFM was based on disaffected Scientologists so I found one. He deleted it and I admit I put it back in with further comments. I might get a better source later on if I am permitted to continue editing. 7. I therefore request that the block be lifted, or if I am to be blocked Martin Poulter is also blocked. I still don't know Prioryman's orientation because he didn't answer my questions, but it can be expected that at least half of editors in Scientology issues are from opposed sources. The answer I think is a bit of tolerance all round. 8 The internet war with Scientology began originally by anti religious kidnappers and skeptics, the article "cult" (the most visited in Misplaced Pages) states that ideas of "brainwashing" in new religious groups are discreditted "In the late 1980s, psychologists and sociologists started to abandon theories like brainwashing and mind-control. While scholars may believe that various less dramatic coercive psychological mechanisms could influence group members, they came to see conversion to new religious movements principally as an act of a rational choice" https://en.wikipedia.org/Cult#Anti-cult_movements_and_their_impact Legal victories such as the destruction of Cult Awareness Network https://en.wikipedia.org/Cult_Awareness_Network played a part. Scientology now has sufficient religious recognition that views otherwise should be viewed as prejudice. However pockets remain and Martin Poulter thinks we are a cult and it certainly drives the skeptics to drink. I don't really mind contrary views in wikipedia as long as I can get in balancing statements. I appeal to administrators to allow me to continue. (additional comments) Let me clarify that I bear no ill will to Martin Poulter or Prioryman.Drg55 (talk) 08:53, 5 July 2013 (UTC) Yes, Yogesh, for instance in my edit to the Scientology as a business lede I put in very good sources that brought that tussle to a resolution. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Scientology_as_a_business&diff=prev&oldid=552247114 I mostly want to correct false reports, as I have already argued the Bare-Faced Messiah article has an imputation that Scientology became a religion for business purposes which is from a newspaper article but not borne out by the actual quote in the book http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Bare-faced_Messiah&diff=559685829&oldid=550158142 This is important, this page was created by Martin Poulter who has a long history against Scientology outside Misplaced Pages. Similarly I believe now Prioryman has such a history but this was deleted by Future Perfect at Sunrise as it would identify him. If they can be there so should I. Alternatively we all can be topic banned and the article deleted as it is an out of print book which was put online by a person. If you check into alt.religion.scientology you find the worst of internet prejudice everything that Misplaced Pages is seeking to avoid. My description of it was considered and not an insult, a little tongue in cheek, perhaps I should have used quotation marks. Martin Poulter in his "three religions" article wrote: "Here is a comparison of three zany joke religions: the Church of the SubGenius, Kibology and Scientology. Make YOUR MIND up about which is the most nutty". I'm happy to keep this type of language out of Misplaced Pages.Drg55 (talk) 21:34, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Fut.Perf

Apparently Drg55 thinks that calling other people "unreconstructed neo-fascists" and "insane" is okay if it's not directed at fellow editors but at people outside Misplaced Pages. Well, it is not. Moreover, the "neo-fascist" bit clearly was directed also at fellow editors. Drg55 apparently cannot see anything wrong with it, and just wants to be allowed to continue editing as before. Recommend speedy closure and rejection of this appeal, and possibly a block for repeating the insults even in this appeal. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:29, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Statement by MartinPoulter

I do not see a logical argument that starts with Drg55's statements above (including a lot that is nothing to do with Misplaced Pages) and concludes that this appeal should be upheld.

What I do see, on Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Ego_(spirituality) ("atheists just don't get it", 'Therefore there are no "reliable sources" a source is ok in so far that a point of view exists. Probably accepted points of view are the ones not to be trusted.') Talk:Scientology as a business ("Scientology Assists help medicine to work. We believe that our practices qualify as spiritual healing.") and Talk:Bare-faced_Messiah ("you are in with the Skeptics, which is a definite bias." "The fact that the media backed the book looks like black propaganda"), are general attacks on "atheists" and "skeptics", innuendo about specific other editors, promotion of the user's beliefs that are irrelevant to the articles, and attacks on reliable sources after the relevant policies have been explained courteously by other editors. That's even if Drg55 gets the benefit of the doubt over earlier contributions. While I have not campaigned for this user to be sanctioned, I can understand anyone who gets a WP:NOTHERE impression. I don't feel attacked, but I do feel that this user has yet to demonstrate they are a benefit to Misplaced Pages. MartinPoulter (talk) 19:22, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by drg55

I request user:Drg55 to understand what is required of him, "unconditional acceptance and adherence to Misplaced Pages policies, not tit for tat, whatever the provocation. Having said that would we be able to read, his "I don't really mind contrary views in Misplaced Pages as long as I can get in balancing statements" as his requesting that he wishes to add balancing content after making sure it passes wp:RS, wp:V, wp:UNDUE and other policies? A clarification from user:Drg55 would be helpful. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 15:11, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

@user:Drg55 (1) I asked a simple clarification. Do you understand the policies that govern editing Misplaced Pages and do you commit to abide by them, whether it is Scientology or any other subject? There is an impression as I understand here that your breach of policies regarding your edits at Scientology are hurting the project. (2) If you do not understand policies clearly enough, perhaps you could "learn them on the job", by editing areas that you don't feel too strongly about, and then come back to have your ban revoked. (3) Perhaps you could appeal to have your ban repealed, but continue to stay away from Scientology on your own, understand policies and then come back after you have gained better understanding. I'm not saying you don't understand policies well enough, just proposing a plan B. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 07:14, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

@user:Drg55: I'm not assuming you're wrong and the other editor is right, this is your ban appeal and I don't think finding faults with other editors helps here. You have to provide an undertaking that you won't be disruptive in the said area and then your ban perhaps would be reconsidered by the powers that be. I'm just trying to help you understand the process (according to the best of my understanding). Yogesh Khandke (talk) 07:21, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by drg55

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

So far, User:Drg55 is not giving us much reason to lift his topic ban. He says: "I don't really mind contrary views in wikipedia as long as I can get in balancing statements. I appeal to administrators to allow me to continue." So, he would like equal time for Drg55 to insert his personal opinion to balance out whatever he disagrees with in our Scientology coverage? That's not how we achieve neutrality; see WP:RS. We rely on editors being clear-headed enough to write neutrally about what the sources have printed. Someone who so proudly wears his non-neutrality is unlikely to work effectively in these areas. EdJohnston (talk) 16:41, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. To the limited extent the appeal is even understandable, its tone and content demonstrate why a topic ban is warranted in this case.

Separately, I find the comment by Saedon above ("scientology is a ridiculous cult and we do not need members of said cult", "an abjectly inane belief system") to be completely unacceptable. Under no circumstances may editors personally attack each other, and especially not on the grounds of each others' religious beliefs. I am blocking Saedon for 48 hours for personal attacks and harrassment, as a normal administrator action, and I am also warning them about the discretionary sanctions that apply in this topic area.  Sandstein  17:25, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I have indefinitely blocked Drg55 for continuing to post private identifying information about other users despite a warning by another administrator. Considering that nobody here has indicated any interest in granting the appeal, I am closing the discussion with the result that the appeal is declined.  Sandstein  07:08, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Request concerning DragonTiger23

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Proudbolsahye (talk) 08:16, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

DragonTiger23 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBMAC

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

• Aggressive, incivil behavior

1. 28 June 2013 The user added a negative comment about two other contributors for no other reason than that they have been in a conflict with him on an entirely different article. Please keep in mind that the discussion on the talkpage is over two years old and DragonTiger23 had nothing ever to do with the article. The user then reports the very same users to WP:ANI under the charges of harassment when one of the users deleted the negative comment with a proper edit-summary. What makes matters more interesting is that upon filing the report, he himself already knew that the comments were from 2011 (See: "Yesterday I was randomly reading the talkpage of Talk:Janina Vilayet when I noticed that there had been a discussion in 2011 and exactly the same users were supporting each other against another user.") Not surprisingly, the report ended with a WP:Boomerang where many Admins (Future Perfect at Sunrise, GB Fan and Bwilkins) got involved and expressed their concerns over the users actions.

• Aggressive and insulting edit summaries. These edits I believe are most problematic...almost horrifying.

1. The user makes a blank edit in order to insult another user by using the edit-summary by saying "Hahaha I knew my edit would be reverted, so you people are now so blinded with hate ur going to revert all my edits even if they are true". A couple minutes later, he makes another blank edit and says "But I will not add the info back :) dont care ur blind hate". There were no edits made between both these blank edits by any user.

• Personal attacks (self explanatory)

1,2,3 are all from the same talkpage:

1. 2 June 2013 "But I see that you have no clue about the architecture of the building" and ends his comment saying "I will not edit it as it shows the power of ignorance." and with "So I now hope from this case that you learn how wrong it is to have negative assumptions."

• Aggressive tone

1. 10 June 2013 "Your argument makes no sense, have you even read what I wrote?" and in the same edit "So instead of repeating your dogma ("Ottomans not reliable") please do a little bit thinking and research." The comment was towards me and I have never said "Ottomans not reliable" at anytime in my career as a Wikipedian. The accusation is entirely disruptive and violate 2E of Misplaced Pages:Civility.
2. 26 June 2013 "The sources are given, read them first."
3. "Yes you suffer severely from wp:idontlikeit and cherrypicking" The user tends to make unsubstantiated accusations of JDLI of almost all editors he/she disputes with: (See: 26 June 2013 edits - A case of WP:LIKE? (There's a CE to the edit here)...and follows up with Hmmm yes clearly a case of WP:JDLI. Other examples that I can think of include: 11 June 2013 , 2 June 2013 , 8 June 2013, 10 June 2013, 10 June 2013, 10 June 2013, 10 June 2013
4. 2 June 2013 "But I see clearly that you have no understanding of the architecture of Hagia Sophia, if you had we should not have this discussion."

• 2 June 2013 - The aggressive tone and baseless accusations continue in the same talkpage towards the same user: "You are again lying and trying to discredit me"..."You have very biased assumptions of me and the Hagia Sophia dispute I also did the correct thing but it does not matter if you can't understand." In addition to this edit, he/she added "do not lie anymore." and repeated it throughout the discussion towards the same user...
• "so stop lying"
• "Why are you lying?"
• Even after the user was warned for his blank edits as mentioned above.

• POV editing

1. 29 June 2013 A massive 4,000+ character edit with highly unsourced POV content such as: "Since 1830 the majority of non-Greek toponyms in Greece have been changed to Greek ones thereby erasing the history of the people and location for the sake of nationalism.", "The ideal of modern Greece was to create a nation state, with no minorities and to do away anything which remainded to such a past. The ideal was Ancient Greece and the goal was to assimilate all the Orthodox Christians to accept an identity as Greeks, most of them did."
2. 28 June 2013 "the non Greek inhabitants were largely gone and instead of them Greek refugees from the Ottoman Empire settled in the area thereby changing its demography." Contentious unsourced POV material

• Ownership of articles (self explanatory)

1. Geographical name changes in Greece
2. Gemlik-Yalova Peninsula Massacres
3. I found this a big issue. He/she edits persistently and does not cooperate in talk pages. When edits are done by other editors, it is met with edit-warring from the user (He/she has already been blocked for edit-warring four times in his career). The users lack of cooperation is further explained in the next section. (note: He/she has been notified of this as well)

• Impossible to work with

1. 14 May 2013 "I already gave the source, I don't care whether you believe it or not"
2. As stated in the sections above, the fact that the user considers all those that disagree with him as people with "dogmas", liers, or people that suffer from WP:JDLI makes cooperation almost impossible in itself let alone the personal attacks that go along with it.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warned on 28 June 2013 by Alexikoua (talk · contribs)
2. Warned on 10 June 2013 by Proudbolsahye (talk · contribs)
3. Warned on 8 June 2013 by Kansas Bear (talk · contribs)
4. Warned on 29 May 2013 by Bbb23 (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I apologize for the length of the report, but the disruption caused by this user is massive, long-term, and across dozens of articles and talk pages. It is a classic case of a user that treats Misplaced Pages as though it is a battleground. I have distinctly noticed that the user is not here to build a neutral encyclopedia where Greek related topics are concerned, but to fight great battles and right great wrongs. I have only included diffs from the last 3-4 weeks or so, which gives an idea of how intensive the disruption is. DragonTiger23 is responsible for virtually every kind of disruption I can think of, or have experienced in my years of editing Misplaced Pages. I have witnessed incivility, edit-warring, POINTy retaliatory behavior, tendentious editing, ethnic baiting and an ultimate disregard for the many warnings issued. As far as his agenda, it is apparent from his contributions that almost all his edits in relation to Greeks or Byzantines have been an attempt to present them as people who conduct massacres, murders and etc. Part of his agenda early on was to "expose the Greek army crimes" which I feel says a lot about his battleground agenda. Other symptoms of battleground editing is when the user created articles and templates in a retaliatory manner. The Template:Greek nationalism is a carbon copy of the Template:Turkish nationalism in terms of the sections and set up. The user has even copied and pasted large chunks of Geographical name changes in Turkey to a new Geographical name changes in Greece article and changed the word Turk to Greek to fulfill his/her goal. Grant it, there is nothing wrong with creating such templates and articles in general, however, I pointed these out because it may provide better understanding of the retaliatory measures he takes in the battleground he/she assumes himself/herself in. Anyhow, for the many concerns I have raised above, I propose that DragonTiger23 be banned from all topics relating to Greeks per WP:ARBMAC.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

notified

Discussion concerning DragonTiger23

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by DragonTiger23

I am for years a neutral contributor to Misplaced Pages and I am not very active on "massacres" topics. The entire disagreement with several users began when I created Gemlik-Yalova Peninsula massacres (A Greek army massacre of Turkish villages in 1921). For years there has been almost no information about Turkish civilian casualties in the Greco-Turkish War (1919-1922) on Misplaced Pages, but there were huge casualties, it deserves an article. (While Greek and Armenian have their own articles, which I have absolutely no problem with and I never denied them). So I thought wikipedia was a neutral encyclopedia which is not selective in presenting the information. I thought it was not a crime when I created an article where Greeks massacre Turks. I had done a lot of research on the events in 1921 and created the article by using neutral western sources. However after the creation of the article I could never develop it properly because I got into several heated discussions for which I was warned and blocked two times. Afterwards I said I would not edit that page anymore and I kept my promise. Besides I accused some people of WP:JDLI not immediately, but after I gave huge chunks of text with explanation and people still ignored or denied them.

So these are all old cherry picked sentences from heated discussions, where I was constantly accused of being POV, nationalist and so on. If anybody cares they can read the talkpage where I answered their accusations with arguments and properly sources. I am still constantly being accused of being non-neutral. ,

So User:Proudbolsahye is cherrypicking sentences from those several months old dicussion and now uses them for which I was already warned and blocked twice to block me again.

I also do not understand why I should be blocked from all Greek related topics, I am not even active on those. I never denied Turks massacring Greeks or others. I created List of massacres in the Byzantine Empire because User:Proudbolsahye proposed to remove Byzantine massacres from the List of massacres in Turkey and it was removed. Geographical name changes in Greece,Template:Greek nationalism, I do not see what is wrong with creating these, they are facts based on sources. I also edited mostly on the demographic history of Greek countries such as Cyprus ] and the table in this section of Nicosia ]. I have also added massacres committed by Turks against Greeks and others towards Byzantines. I am also working on a article of Turkish massacres against Armenians User:DragonTiger23/ List of anti Armenian massacres during 1894–1896

I do not understand User:Proudbolsahye's (I have had very little discussion with him in the past) sudden attempt to let me block for monthly old comments (towards others) for which I was already warned and blocked. I am also not doing WP:Battle, I am just creating articles for neglected information. Is it forbidding to create articles related to topics such as massacres and human rights only because the subject is Greece or other certain countries?

Note: User:Proudbolsahye accuses me of "all his edits in relation to Greeks or Byzantines have been an attempt to present them as people who conduct massacres, murders" (which is obviously not true) is himself the creator of numerous Turkish related articles (which I have absolutely no problem with) such as: Template:Turkish nationalism, Geographical name changes in Turkey, Citizen speak Turkish!, Confiscated Armenian properties in Turkey, Animal name changes in Turkey, 1934 Turkish Resettlement Law, Sevag Balıkçı.

DragonTiger23 (talk) 11:29, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Comment by DragonTiger23

First of all I would like to thank you Future Perfect at Sunrise for clarifying and understanding my situation and point in the article of Hagia Sophia and the discussion with the specified user. For I suck at defending myself, especially when multiple users are ganging up against me, for this is how I feel the situation and it is becoming more and more unpleasant for me to edit on Misplaced Pages. Secondly, I feel like my comments are ignored (perhaps my English isn't understandable), so I will try to keep it brief this time (I don't want to bring up months old discussions, but I have to since above users already did). If someone wants more information or a clarification of the points I will give below, I can elaborate on them.

• It should be no surprise that editors with whom I have had different opinions on previous discussions, will now try to get rid of their "self-declared opponent" and them being aware of this discussion here should give more insight about the harassment I feel. Alexikoua believes that I "decided to lead an endless national campaign." and thinks that I'm "continuing E4024's national campaign".
  • I never cooperated with E4024 on any article as far as I can remember and this user has also been banned (I don't know why) for a very long time and thus was not involved in any of my discussions with Alexikoua or others, so involving this user is totally irrelevant.
  • I do not lead a "national campaign" against anyone or anything. The fact that I have been editing on the page of List of massacres in Turkey (including well-sourced massacres during the Greco-Turkish War (1919-1922), which were completely ignored), move "massacres in the Byzantine Empire" from the previous article into its own article (List of massacres in the Byzantine Empire), creating Gemlik-Yalova Peninsula massacres (based on Western sources, an Inter Allied Commission and the Red Cross) which I eventually stopped editing due to continually being disrupted by the specified user, who was source abusing by trying to lower the number of casualties from +-6,000 to only 35, even after I wrote chunks of explanation on the talkpage and for instance gave examples of individual cases in which the casualties already exceeded 35, Alexikoua insisted that the total casualties were 35. (the whole discussion can be found on Talk:Yalova_Peninsula_Massacres_(1920–21)#Severe_pov) Please note that this was very frustrating since nobody else cared to correct Alexikoua's mistake.
  • Whenever I made an edit which apparently Alexikoua didn't like he "retaliated" and was not so critical about large numbers (as in the case of Gemlik-Yalova): 23 June 2013, 17 June 2013 , 17 June 2013 , 10 June 2013 , 10 June 2013 , 10 June 2013 , 3 June 2013 , 2 June 2013 , 31 May 2013 , 18 April 2013

While at the same time acting like a "doomsayer" (trying to recruit other users; note that he thinks E4024 was "trying to recruit me"): 10 June 2013 , 10 June 2013 , 9 June 2013

• • All of these discussions are long and old. I don't want to include all of them because then my comment would be even longer. The point is that I acknowledge that I have made mistakes, but it is not as black-and-white as the complainers are trying to portray. See for instance Alexikoua's "retaliations".
  • Please also note that I have never deleted well-sourced information which was added by Alexikoua or the others, and that I also included information about Turks massacring others (see my first statement).
    • I have never had a discussion with Chauahuasachca who claims that I "argued in a very aggressive manner". Please remember that in that old discussion I was constantly being called a "neo-ottoman/Islamic POV pusher" and eventually Admin Future Perfect at Sunrise himself became involved and supported my edit!DragonTiger23 (talk) 10:08, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Preliminary notes by Fut.Perf.

For the moment, I'll just make one observation about the edits on Hagia Sophia： while DragonTiger's sarcastic tone in his edit summary is certainly not desirable, some amount of frustration on his part is understandable in this instance, as his prior edit was indeed quite correct and constructive (as has now been conclusively determined on the talkpage), and the erroneous statement he was trying to fix had been sitting in the article as an unsourced piece of rather blatantly false OR for a long time. He had been blanket-reverted quickly and without discussion , by an editor who evidently overlooked the fact that the previous version was unsourced and obviously implausible (and who then made another – good-faith – error when trying to find sourcing for it afterwards). The fact that this disagreement came up again in a heated exchange between the same two editors on an entirely unrelated talkpage a few days later (Talk:Istanbul riots#Minimize or maximize) shows that there is evidently a lot of bad blood between these editors now, and I can't say the fault is entirely on one side, as here too DragonTiger was evidently correct about the need to fix an incorrectly cited source. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:04, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

More: I would strongly recommend the filer strike the diffs listed as #2 under "Aggressive and insulting edit summaries", and both items under "Trolling and simultaneously personally attacking". There is nothing actionable in these, and the presence of these items in this report only creates a "more heat than light" situation and suggests that the filer is trying to "get" an opponent by sheer quantity and not quality of complaints. This diff shows DT responding to a very severe piece of criticism of himself on another user's talkpage, so calling it an instance of "hounding" is patently baseless, and its tone is hardly more aggressive than the posting it replied to. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:19, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Same goes for all four items under "Personal attacks": numbers 1–3 are from before the warnings, and #4 is not a personal attack. "You have no clue about the architecture of this building" is a piece of criticism, stated in a rather sharp tone, but not a personal attack. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:25, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Chauahuasachca

I had a strong feeling this was going happen. I remember this user a couple months back when he argued in a very aggressive manner over the Sultan Mehmed article. I knew he was going to be future problem with his disruptive edits. Turns out his pattern of aggressive language, POV editing and personal attacks have continued at a large scale. His most recent disruptive edit at the Talkpage of Janina Vilayet is very concerning. Even at the ANI board he was making sarcastic remarks towards the Admins and is generally very difficult to work with. I agree with a topic ban under ARBMAC.--Chauahuasachca (talk) 23:24, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Alexikoua

Apart from the above mentioned issues, which mainly describe a problematic behaviour by DT23, it's useful to add the following:

• DT23 ignores any kind of advice so far: a latest example was a weird report he recently filled and ended up in wp:boomerang]. Although he was kindly advised by several parts that such kind of behaviour isn't appropriate the answer was again sarcastic ] "then please perma-block me then", concluding that he can't accept basic rules.
• Unfortunately the only piece of advice it seems so far he took into account was from user:E4024, who shares the same extreme pov. The latter in his desperate attempt to recruit DT23 wrote to his talkpage that ] ("Please nobody come to tell me about principles, WP is about national complexes (of those who have lost [i.e. the non-Turks)" (E4024 received his permablock next day).
• It seems that E4024's advice was DT23's turning point and then (at early May) decided to lead an endless national campaign. No wonder after that he is interested in promoting an extreme pov (massacres against Turks became his favourite topic). It wouldn't be bad, but he tends to use partisan material ], and always overemphasize about crimes against Turks, by wp:QUOTEFARM the specific parts, even in articles that are not specialized in that events ].
• This pattern is accompanied by highly sarcastic talkpage comments and edit summaries (one of the earliest examples of aggressive behaviour ], 2 weeks after E4024' advice).Alexikoua (talk) 06:38, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Athenean

The geographical name change in Greece was an initiative by the Greek government to replace non-Greek geographical and topographic names within the Greek Republic with Greek names as part of a policy and ideology of Hellenisation.The main proponent of the initiative has been a Greek homogenization social-engineering campaign which aimed to assimilate or obliterate geographical or topographical names that were deemed foreign and divisive against Greek unity or considered to be "bad Greek". The names that were considered foreign were usually of Ottoman, Albanian, Slavic and Turkish origin.

The geographical name change program of Turkey was an initiative by the Turkish government to replace non-Turkish geographical and topographic names within the Turkish Republic or the Ottoman Empire with Turkish names, as part of a policy of Turkification. The main proponent of the initiative has been a Turkish homogenization social-engineering campaign which aimed to assimilate or obliterate geographical or topographical names that were deemed foreign and divisive against Turkish unity. The names that were considered foreign were usually of Armenian, Greek, Laz, Georgian, Bulgarian, Kurdish, Assyrian, or Arabic origin.

Result concerning DragonTiger23

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

A sanction is not possible because it appears that DragonTiger23 has not yet received a warning of the type required per WP:AC/DS#Warnings (that is, with a link to the arbitration case). That being so, the most we can do is to issue that warning. Even a brief glance at the lengthy report indicates that it is needed, see for instance edit summaries such as or obviously non-neutral unreferenced contributions such as ("Since 1830 the majority of non-Greek toponyms in Greece have been changed to Greek ones thereby erasing the history of the people and location for the sake of nationalism.") Accordingly, I am warning DragonTiger23 that if they continue with conduct of the sort reported here, they will likely be banned from making any edits related to Greece, Turkey or other Balkans countries.  Sandstein  18:34, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Strike that, I'm mistaken. DragonTiger23 was warned with a link to the arbitration case on 10 June 2013. Proudbolsahye, please amend your request by indicating the date of all later problematic edits so that we can see which ones are potentially actionable here.  Sandstein  18:43, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

The editor seems redeemable, but the bad behavior listed here is too much to overlook. I'd suggest a six-month topic ban under WP:ARBMAC for anything related to Greece or Greeks. He already has four blocks for edit warring. Somebody who has been here since 2010 ought by now to be familiar with our customs. EdJohnston (talk) 17:36, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

OK, though I'd prefer a shorter sanction: from among the post-10 June dated diffs, which are the only ones I'm examining, only the "for the sake of nationalism" edit mentioned above appears problematic, and that one edit is probably not enough to warrant a six-month topic ban.  Sandstein  17:11, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

• Closing. User:DragonTiger23 is topic banned for three months under WP:ARBMAC from anything related to Greece or Greeks, ancient or modern. The ban covers all pages of Misplaced Pages including talk. If he has any questions whether a particular article is covered by the ban, he is encouraged to ask an admin. EdJohnston (talk) 16:02, 12 July 2013 (UTC)