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Revision as of 22:21, 15 April 2010 editFeedback (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers7,912 edits →Team LayCool, should it exist?← Previous edit Revision as of 00:05, 16 April 2010 edit undoGaryColemanFan (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers22,474 edits →Glenn Jacobs → Kane (wrestler): you're clearly mistaking majority vote for consensus; discussion was still ongoing when you archived thisNext edit →
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{{archivetop|result=Requested an administrator to move it. –] ] 03:01, 12 April 2010 (UTC)|status=MOVED}}


He has used the name Kane since 1997 and for the whole time it was in the WWE so I don't think people would call him Glenn Jacobs.--] ] 14:14, 7 April 2010 (UTC) He has used the name Kane since 1997 and for the whole time it was in the WWE so I don't think people would call him Glenn Jacobs.--] ] 14:14, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
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**Then we're good. Just because two users oppose this doesn't mean a consensus can't be determined, especially when the opposition clearly is the minority. No one ever 100% agrees with everthing... and yet we still get a consensus. Done. <sup>--]]--</sup> 04:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC) **Then we're good. Just because two users oppose this doesn't mean a consensus can't be determined, especially when the opposition clearly is the minority. No one ever 100% agrees with everthing... and yet we still get a consensus. Done. <sup>--]]--</sup> 04:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

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Proposed moves

Chris Mordetzky → Chris Masters

 Done

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

With consensus among 6 editors with no opposition I think we can make the move.--C23 C23's talk 13:20, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Chris Masters debuted in 2005 under this name and has continued to use it for 5 years. After being released in 2007, Masters began wrestling on the independent scene under the name "Chris Moore", but he still used the name "Chris Masters" on some events. He has wrestled in some main events and has actually achieved a small amount of popularity. On a relevant note, he also appeared with his "Chris Masters" name and gimmick during an episode of some Nickelodeon TV Show. I believe it is a strong argument to say that "Chris Masters" is his most common name. Raaggio 05:52, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Support I don't see a problem with this move he's used the name for five years.--Steam Iron 09:05, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Support  MPJ -DK  13:16, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Support Sephiroth storm (talk) 20:06, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Support --WillC 20:23, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Support C23 C23's talk
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Terry Gerin → Rhino (wrestler)

 Done

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

No opposition. Went ahead with the move. Raaggio 01:28, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Rhino wrestled for three years under this name in the final three years of ECW. After that, he debuted in WWE where he used a variation of his name (Rhyno) for four more years. He gained notability by winning the US Championship, Hardcore Championship, Tag Team Championship and competing for the World Heavyweight Championship. After being released in 2005 and competing at One Night Stand, Rhino debuted in TNA where he has been contracted for the past five years. In the past five years, he has used the name "Rhino" and has had many notable feuds and championship main events. "Rhino" is obviously his common name. The qualifier should not be an issue (WP:QUALIFIER) because Rhino is the most common name. The issue is similar to Eric Young (wrestler). Raaggio 05:52, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Support  MPJ -DK  13:16, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Support Sephiroth storm (talk) 20:06, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Support--C23 C23's talk 16:01, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Jason Reso → Christian (wrestler) or Christian Cage

 Done

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The clear consensus is to change Jason Reso to Christian (wrestler). Closed.--C23 C23's talk 22:46, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

When Christian began wrestling in 1995, he utilized the name "Christian Cage". However, when he debuted in the WWE in 1998, he shortened his name to "Christian". Christian became a very popular wrestler winning various championships and competing numerous times in WWE main events. Although his gimmick changed a few times, Reso always maintained "Christian" as his ring name. Even after quitting the WWE in 2005, he moved on to TNA and continued using the name (with the "Cage" surname). For the next four years, he became one of TNA's top main-eventers under the "Christian Cage" moniker winning two world championships. He jumped ship to the WWE in 2009, dropped the surname once again, and became the headliner of ECW with two ECW title reigns on his resumé. I think it is obvious that Christian is the most common name. Due to naming conventions, a qualifier is necessary if we would rename the article "Christian" (like Eric Young (wrestler) and the aforementioned Rhino), but I think the best compromise is moving the article to "Christian Cage" which is not exactly the most common ring name, but it includes the most common one in its title (similar to Bob Holly). Raaggio 05:52, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Probably should stay where it is or moved to William Reso. His common name is up in the air. Christian and Christian Cage are both equally known these days.--WillC 08:16, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
I have to agree with WillC on this one--Steam Iron 09:05, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Like MPJ-DK stated, "Christian" is the most common name end of story. Christian Cage was used for four years in TNA while Christian was used during his mainstream run in WWE from 1998-2005 (8 years) and from 2009 forward. Also, because Cage was just a surname, he was popularly being referred to as Christian during his TNA run. Raaggio 03:18, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Support Christian (wrestler). People may pretend that his time in TNA got him as known as Christian Cage than Christian despite his much longer time in the WWE with more world wide exposure, but it's just not true.  MPJ -DK  13:16, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Have people forgot not only during his 4 years in TNA was he using Cage, but he was also working on indy promotions and had a few appearences in Japan as Christian Cage? His return to WWE has been over looked and most forgot he was even there because he was on ECW. Also, a google search of Christian Cage and one of Christian Wrestler only is apart by 20,000. Common name is rather close.--WillC 05:24, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
People forget nothing, a few additional indy appearances does not make it more common. IT's either the name he's worked under for like a decade in the biggest promotion in the world, with shows and tours world wide, TV ratings leader and top PPV seller - or it's the name he used for four years in a promotion that were happy to get as high ratings as WWE's third brand ECW. Also you cannot really use the name search for much, you had "Christian Cage" vs. "Christian wrestling", the first search term is not specific enough plus it would actually also include every single reference to "Christian" anywhere there was a cage match mentioned at all. Sorry but since both Christian and Cage are common terms a google search does nothing.  MPJ -DK  06:03, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Yes WWE is the largest promotion, but Cage worked in England, Japan, Canada, and the US as Cage. TNA also aired in several countries all over the world. Common name would be established by published articles on the subject. Not the belief in what a person remembers someone as. Looking at Christian Cage searched results, not one single article on the first page says anything about a cage match or anything unrelated to Christian Cage. The search in general on Christian would bring up all sorts of subjects. Most pro wrestling writers still refer to Cage as Cage. Obviously, Cage's highest accolades were in TNA with two world championship reigns, a stable, several main event matches, and a DVD released on his wrestling career. Though, it isn't about what happened under the ring name, it matters how well published they have been under that name. Per common name, Google should be used to help determine a common name. Search results were under the exact titles that are being discussed. Christian Cage and Christian Wrestler..minus the parenthesis.--WillC 07:01, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
You do not use a qualifier in the google test, Will. Raaggio 15:19, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

He's worked in England, Japan, Canada and the US while working for the WWE as well - for longer time too. As for "how well published", the first 8 years of Christian he was published as that, then four years at TNA where he was Christian Cage or Christian and now two years again as Christian potentially with references to how he used to be known as Christian Cage. Prove how he's consistently referred to as Christian Cage after returning to WWE please because I believe that's flat out wrong. Search for "Christian Cage Wrestling" gives 217.000 hits, "Christian Wrestling" gives 1.310.000 more than four times as much.  MPJ -DK  07:32, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Can't we agree on using "Christian Cage" as his name? Note that it includes the name "Christian" in it. Therefore, it really represents both ring names. Raaggio 15:19, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm in favour of that. Tony2Times (talk) 19:08, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
I cannot support Christian Cage. I wish I could, but unfortunatly, WWE has a larger fan base, and he was known as Christian in WWE. In addition he was known there for a longer time. Finally, it is unlikely for his tenure in WWE that he will become known as Christian Cage, therefore, the recognition of CC is unlikely to overturn recognition of the name Christian. Sephiroth storm (talk) 20:06, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Looking at it from a wider range, we can say, most know him as Christian and as Cage, because for the past few years mainstream fans heard about him in TNA besides the casuals and the children. The names are about equal since Christian is just a breakoff of Christian Cage, since he was originally supposed to use that in WWE and at last minute chose to remove the Cage part. However, to remain fair it should stay where it is or be moved to his real first name William Reso. It is all heresy on common name if it can't be proved.--WillC 20:22, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
You keep insisting that he's as known as Cage but cannot prove it, now you're saying the opposite can't be proven either. Neither Jay Reso nor William Reso is the name he's most known as, but frankly in the end it's about which name he's listed as and which is just a redirect so I officially change my vote to "not caring" any more.  MPJ -DK  20:26, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
He's gone by Christian for almost a decade or so in the WWF/WWE. Those years outweigh any number of years spent in TNA. –Turian (talk) 20:43, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Support Per Above. Also, Christian is known mostly as Christian we're not saying he's not known by some as Christian Cage we just think that's he's known more as Christian.--C23 C23's talk 15:52, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Around 2 million in the US alone watched him as Cage in TNA. Around the same have watched him as Christian since he returned to WWE on ECW. I don't think that is some. He has appeared in two world-wide promotions under two names. To establish a common name would be difficult and most likely breaking of a neutral point of view.--WillC 20:49, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
Its not breaking WP:NPOV when we say WWE is more notable than TNA. Its just the fact of the matter. Raaggio 00:12, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Yeah... if you think TNA is more notable... you might want to check that info. –Turian (talk) 00:14, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
So now you're saying that TNA gets the same ratings as the WWE? He's been a long time mainstay on Raw & Smackdown and even you cannot claim that the ratings are about the same - sure TNA and ECW were close in ratings, though ECW more often than not won, let's not even begin to talk PPV buys or the fact that in the 8 years before he went to TNA he appeared on shows that were multiple times higher rated than even the best ever TNA rating. It's not "not-neutral" to look at the ratings since ratings means "number of people who watch" and thus "number of people who see him wrestle as Christian".  MPJ -DK  00:33, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

If it is so easy to show that Reso is more known as Christian. Then actually show it. Don't give heresy and show bias which is easily seen during this discussion with the constant put downs of TNA and anything not WWE from this project. All I've heard is "because", and not here is the evidence.--WillC 01:03, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with notbility of TNA and WWE. This has to do with how known each name is. To establish a common name, the name has to be clearly justified. With two wide names being used by Cage. Neither can be clearly called the common name without being bias.--WillC 01:05, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Do a quick search. Most TNA ratings have a share of 1-2, while WWE has rating shares from 3-4. It is not bias; I don't even know why you are using that word. Your bias of TNA is evident. –Turian (talk) 01:07, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
If I was bias of TNA, then the last episode I watched wouldn't have been 4 weeks ago and I would be going for a move to Cage rather than keeping it where it is. The nelson rating system is flawed you do know that? More people are actually watching the shows than are counted. And plus you have to incorporate the viewers from other countries, such as India which the system does not do because it is American based. I see the bias, there has always been a bias around here. If it isn't WWE, then it doesn't matter. MPJ has seen that with Mexican wrestling. I've seen it with TNA and indy wrestling. I can see it with your comments. But yet, still no one has shown anything to establish a common name other than ratings. When you have forgotten internet wrestling sites, etc. Just looking at a google search of the names being discussed, you can see the names are very close is published articles. Thus, a clear common name can not be establish. To choose any name is more popular, would automatically declare a bias since it isn't proven.--WillC 01:51, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I am so biased everything I saw and use as a source is biased, including TV rating shares. I must be making this stuff up! –Turian (talk) 01:56, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Will, WP:DRAMA would like to see you in his office. Raaggio 02:07, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
I just want the article to follow the right guidelines. ThinkBlue and I spent a good amount of time trying to get it to GA, so I kind of have this "editor's bond" with the article if you will.--WillC 03:36, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
I understand, the guideline that needs to be implemented here is WP:UCN. No one is disputing that "Christian Cage" is not a common name for him, but the most common name is "Christian". Regardless of his time in TNA, Christian has been more time in WWE. Also, he currently is in WWE, and has been for more than a year. Most people will now him as Christian without Cage even if TNA viewers remember the surname. I understand where you are coming from, but the fact of the matter is that "Christian" is more common than "Christian Cage". Like I stated above, I'm in favor of whichever, because they're very similar titles. But regardless I'm not going to ignore the fact that "Christian" alone is the most adequate title. Raaggio 03:55, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
And I can see the idea of Christian being the most common name since WWE is the largest promotion in the world. However, we are talking about two world-wide promotions and one wrestler have two different names in each one where he has had big accomplishments in both. It would be better to just keep it where it is currently at until it is widely clear there is a common name. Lets say, when Cage wins the WWE or WH Titles. Then it would be common sense to suggest such a thing.--WillC 05:08, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
We both know Vince is to hard-headed to ever let that happen. We might try other consensus-seeking alternatives, but we cannot leave him under "Jason Reso". It is definitely not his most common name and heck, we don't even know if thats his real name. I think Christian Cage is a great solution due to the title including both of his primary ring names. However, others don't agree. In response, I have to firmly state my belief that "Christian Cage" is second to "Christian" which is his most common name. Raaggio 05:27, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
His real name is William Jason Reso, stated in all sorts of material. His friends just call him Jason. We are forced to keep it where it is or move it to William if we can't clearly prove a common name. I would agree with the Cage idea, but remaining in a more neutral role on the article title would be better. If it must be moved to one of them, I would say Cage due to your suggestion and the fact that his original ring name was Cage and WWE just wanted to break off the Cage for his gimmick.--WillC 06:00, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
That is a falsehood. There is no guideline that says that we must "keep it where it is" if we can't find a common name. WP:UCN says if there are more than one name that might be considered common, that we must achieve a WP:CONSENSUS among the community. This is what we are trying to do right now. Raaggio 20:39, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

You are totally right, it's complete guesswork that Christian has been with the WWE for 10 years, total rumor that he has spent most of those 10 years on Raw or Smackdown, utter supposition that those two shows have crushed TNA in various ratings ever since TNA begun and nothing but speculation that even the ECW shows consistently outdrew TNA. Let's not forget the figment of all of our imaginations that the WWE PPV buyrates are much higher than TNA's PPVs. You're right we're just pulling this stuff from our asses without any proof - after all it's not a very commonly known fact that Christian wrestled for the WWE before TNA even existed or that the WWE is indeed the world's largest wrestling organization with more international tours and more international exposure than any other wrestling organisation. I think it's horrible that we assume that ratings = number of people that watch, even if there generally are "More people watching than the ratings indicate" then we are such no-goodnicks for assuming that if TNA's ratings are actually higher than the ratings so are the WWE's and thus the numbers are actually comparable. Oh wait... what part of the argument for Christian is NOT a fact? Time in the promotion? Ratings?? Buy rates? International exposure? please tell me how that's all "hearsay" and does not in fact support the "most known as" argument?.  MPJ -DK  06:10, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

And as for your "Internet search" thing - compare "christian cage wrestler" and "christian wrestler" to get a fair view of things. Also would you like me to find sources that say that the WWE have higher ratings or am I biased in suggesting such things? Everything that's been said by the "Christian (wrestler)" group are commonly known facts while your TNA bias has led you to argue that TNA can compete with the WWE ratings and buyrate wise, something which is not common sense.  MPJ -DK  06:16, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Will, you have it right on your page that you like TNA more than WWE and now you come along trying to prove TNA has better ratings so you can get the page to stay the same because you don't want him known as Christian when it is obvious that Christian is the most commonly used name and i'll give you proof. Christian worked for WWE for 7 years (1998-2005) under Christian before he went to TNA for 4 years (2005-2009) under Christian Cage and now he's back in WWE and he's been here for about a year that makes 8 years under Christian 4 under Christian Cage. Besides a few years in an un-noteable wrestling organization where he wrestled under Christian Cage. And about the ratings you've never heard on ECW or anywhere else that TNA almost tied ECW a few times but ECW came out on top and obviously ECW had lower viewers than that of Smackdown and Raw so obviously WWE would have better ratings than TNA so with a longer time under Christian and using it under the world's most viewed wrestling promotion it is pretty obvious that Christian is the most common name for him.--C23 C23's talk 14:27, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I am pretty sure consensus can be called on this one. Change it to 'Christian (wrestler)'. –Turian (talk) 20:41, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree, consensus is not the same as 100% agreement after all.  MPJ -DK  22:17, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Move it. We know that a millions watched TNA, we don't know how many knew Reso, that they watched his segments or didn't know him first a Christian. We are making a logical, and overall unbiased judgment that the common name is Christian.Sephiroth storm (talk) 22:42, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Oleg Prudius → Vladimir Kozlov

 Done

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Because there seems to be a consensus here among 7 different users then I will go ahead with the move. Raaggio 20:22, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Prudius debuted on WWE television in early 2007 in a non-wrestling role under the name "Vladimir Kozlov", but was taken off TV for a little over a year until his wrestling debut on Smackdown. During this year, he used the "Vladimir Kozlov" name in WWE's developmental territories where he wrestled in many of its main events. Shortly after his debut, he became one of the top heels of his brand and even challenging Triple H for the WWE Championship. He was then became part of a big faction and had some notable feuds upon being drafted to ECW. After ECW's closure, Kozlov was drafted to Raw and has not done anything of notability. However, in my opinion, 3 years with the same ring name and on WWE's 3 different brands is definitely enough to be considered the most common name. Raaggio 05:52, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with this one ether--Steam Iron 09:05, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Support  MPJ -DK  13:16, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
How many people known him as Oleg Prudius? Most pro wrestler articles are title under the names they are known by. For instance, if you asked some of the WWE fans who Matt Sydal is, they couldn't tell you. But if you said Evan Bourne, then they would know who you are talking about. Mr. C.C.I didn't do it! 16:26, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
I believe that is the point...? –Turian (talk) 16:28, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Support Sephiroth storm (talk) 20:06, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Support Per above.--WillC 20:17, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I'm having trouble moving over the redirect. In need of assistance. Raaggio 03:46, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
Contact an admin. The admin will have to delete the Kozlov page and merge the histories.--WillC 04:11, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
For some reason, they are taking years to respond. Raaggio 20:45, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
I would have just asked Nikki to do it.--WillC 02:48, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
I did, but she apparently hasn't seen it or hasn't had the time to do it. RaaGgio (talk) 03:49, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

They have finally responded to both Chris Masters and Vladimir Kozlov and they have been moved.--C23 C23's talk 13:35, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Sheamus O'Shaunessy → Sheamus

 Done

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Consensus achieved with 5 different users, so I'll go ahead and carry out the move. Raaggio 20:40, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

This one isn't really much of a big deal, but on WWE television it is constantly noted that Sheamus "does not have a last name" and therefore having this non-notable fictional surname attached to his ring-name is counterproductive. Sheamus did utilize this name during his developmental run, but his run on ECW and Raw are much more notable and although a short time has passed since his debut, he has accomplished much (WWE Championship, match with Triple H at WrestleMania, feuds with Randy Orton and John Cena, etc.). I think it would be better to have the article under "Sheamus". Raaggio 05:52, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree on this on its obvious that he is known more as Sheamus then Sheamus O'Shaunessy--Steam Iron 09:05, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Support  MPJ -DK  13:16, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Support per commonname. Sephiroth storm (talk) 20:06, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Support Per above.--WillC 20:16, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Paul Wight → The Big Show (wrestler)

Has used the name The Big Show for all but a few weeks of his 9 years in WWE previously known as The Giant for 3 years in WCW but I don't think a lot of people would go to an event and say "Hey, there's the Giant".--C23 C23's talk 14:05, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Support I don't see a problem with this hes been know as the big show for quite some time now.--Steam Iron 17:49, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Oppose All of his movie credits and some of his TV credits are under "Paul Wight". Also, he has wrestled under Paul "The Great" Wight. Noticing that Wight is notable enough to be the title, let us avoid the qualifier and leave it where it is at. Raaggio 20:39, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Of course credits would be in his real name.--C23 C23's talk 20:48, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily, some wrestlers do get credited under their wrestling names (The Rock and I'm pretty sure Hulk Hogan). But I think the biggest thing against Show having his name changed would be the five years he spent as The Giant during WCW's most watched period, including time as a World Champion, so I Oppose. Tony2Times (talk) 21:50, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Oppose as he has only been known as The Big Show while in the WWE.   ArcAngel   (talk) (review) 17:54, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Mike Mizanin → The Miz (wrestler)

Has used this name since he went to OVW 6 years ago and before used it as his nickname not known as any thing else except the Calgary Kid for 1 match.--C23 C23's talk 14:09, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

  • Oppose- He debuted in WWE under "Mike Mizanin" and at the time "The Miz" was just a nickname. He was on The Real World, on 5 differentReal World/Road Rules Challenge, on Fear Factor and on Battle of the Network Reality Stars under his real name. He actually won 2 of the Challenge series and won Fear Factor also. Both "Mike Mizanin" and "The Miz" are notable, but I think the priority goes with Mizanin because its his real name. Raaggio 20:39, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose given that his real name seems to be his more common moniker.   ArcAngel   (talk) (review) 17:51, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Glenn Jacobs → Kane (wrestler)

He has used the name Kane since 1997 and for the whole time it was in the WWE so I don't think people would call him Glenn Jacobs.--C23 C23's talk 14:14, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Oppose- There is another man, Lane Huffman who is a retired professional wrestler billed under the name Kane. Raaggio 20:39, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes but he only wrestled under that name for a few weeks this Kane has wrestled with it for 11 years.--C23 C23's talk 20:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Support for the reasons given by Curtis23. I'd like to point out that in Jacobs' only major film role, See No Evil, he is credited either as Kane or Glenn "Kane" Jacobs. As far as the argument that Stevie Ray wrestled briefly as Kane, I doubt anybody would read "Kane, the wrestler" and think it might mean Stevie Ray. It probably warrants a disambig link on Jacobs' page if it's moved to Kane (wrestler), but the association isn't nearly strong enough to prevent such a move. Jeff Silvers (talk) 21:23, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Support, Huffman can get a tophat as it's only two people so no disambig needed. Mr Jacobs has been Kane for 13 years, has held a World Title for sadly one glorious day, was a top carder during the first year of Attitude Era upturn and has been there ever since which by far outshines his real name and his two former gimmicks. Tony2Times (talk) 23:16, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
top hat? Raaggio 23:29, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
I don't know what it's called but I thought I recalled someone calling it that. Those notes in italics at the beginning of an article that say "If you were searching for the wrestler who used the ring name Kane in World Championship Wrestling, see Lane Huffman."Tony2Times (talk) 17:49, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
I think you mean {{about}}. So something like: This page is about the WWE wrestler. For the WCW wrestler, see Lane Huffman.
In any case, I Support the move. –Turian (talk) 17:56, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Known under several other names, and, as already mentioned, there is another wrestler known as Kane. That would necessitate additional clarification in the qualifier—"Kane (WWE wrestler)" or something to that extent—at that point, I believe that there is a more natural way of identifying the subject—by his real name, or at the very least, by the misspelling that Misplaced Pages erroneously claims to be his real name. GaryColemanFan (talk) 04:49, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

  • SupportThere is no doubt though that Kane is the name he's most known as, has worked under the longest and is identified as. Should Hulk Hogan not be listed at such because he wrestled as "Sterling Golden"? Don't think so, neither does WP:COMMON. As for Stevie Ray working as Kane for a bit and this "needs additional clarification" - that's bunk, it can be solved with a hat note. Stevie Ray wrestled as Kane for like six months maybe at the beginning of his WCW career, it'd be plenty with a hat note. MPJ -DK  05:10, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - truth be told he was known as other names before his Kane persona, but Isaac Ynakem DDS and Fake Diesel are really the closest to his common name and they obviously aren't going to be his article title. Afro (Blah Blah Here) 18:25, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Response No, it is certainly not "bunk". This very issue has been discussed on Misplaced Pages many times, and the consensus seems to be that a specific qualifier is required when a generic one would apply to more than one article. For example, there have been multiple movies named "Avatar". As you know, the most recent one is obviously the most successful and the one that most people would be searching for if they type in "Avatar (film)" or something similar. However, that is a redirect to a section of the "Avatar" disambiguation page because each Avatar film has a specific qualifier—Avatar (2009 film) for the most recent, which is not given preferential treatment over Avatar (2004 film), despite the facts that most readers will not have seen the latter and that the latter was released under a different name in several large markets. In a case like this, and with Kane (wrestler), one is certainly more well known, but Misplaced Pages policy on naming conventions supercedes a WP:PW-wide "IDONTLIKEIT" vote. GaryColemanFan (talk) 00:35, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
There are two Brad Pitts, and the actor takes the article title because he is more famous and more well known. Just because something has a similar name does not mean that a disambiguation is necessary. A few months with a stint is not enough to force a disambiguation. IDONTLIKEIT and neither does Misplaced Pages. Funny, huh? –Turian (talk) 01:02, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Yet another response: Yes, there are two Brad Pitts. Please note that one is an actor, and the other is a boxer. Therefore, your example is fundamentally flawed. If they were both actors, the example would work, but it would disprove what you are saying. Let's run with that idea...if both were actors, you could not give the lesser-known Brad Pitt the article title "Brad Pitt (actor)", since that would apply to both. Likewise, you could not give the more famous Brad Pitt the article title "Brad Pitt (actor)". At that point, just as with the "Kane (wrestler)" problem, further clarification would be necessary in the qualifier. Perhaps one would be "Brad Pitt (American actor)" and the other would be "Brad Pitt (Kenyan actor)". If both were American, a different form of clarification would be necessary. Perhaps "Brad Pitt (born 1963)" and "Brad Pitt (born 1981)". In the case at hand "Kane (WWE wrestler)" would be the most logical choice, as Jacobs spent his entire time as Kane with WWF/WWE, and Huffman was only Kane in WCW. GaryColemanFan (talk) 01:42, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Huffman is most notable under that name. Jacobs is most notable under Kane. There is no other point to really even bring up. –Turian (talk) 01:49, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Ok Gary I added a possible move as Kane (WWE wrestler). Is that ok with you?--The guy dubbed Curtis23 Curtis23's talk 00:49, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

  • 'Support' the move for Kane (wrestler) as Turian noted and Huffman can keep his article name. On a side note... why does it have to be OK with Gary? If the project is fine with it then Close and Move Away! 02:05, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
  • "Comment- I reopened the discussion. We can't go around closing discussions when opposition is clearly visible. I for one agree with Gary. Per WP:DISAMBIGUATION, if "an article title could refer to several things" than further disambiguation is necessary. This automatically rules out "Kane (wrestler)" as a possible name. RaaGgio (talk) 03:24, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
  • The "There are two wrestlers known as Kane so it needs to be more specific" IS bunk, Stevie Ray was Kane for a very short time as part of Harlem Heat's first six to eight months in WCW, a hat note is more than sufficient - the "WWE Wrestler" would only be necessary if the other article shared a name, it does not - a hat note is more than sufficient and it allows the article to be at the much simpler name "Kane (wrestler)" with a note on top for the 1 in 3 million who may be looking for Stevie Ray after waking up from a 17-year long coma. Also see WP:DISAMBIGUATION, third point under "Deciding to disambiguate" it states "The page at Michael Dobbs is about the primary topic, and there is only one other use. The other use is linked directly using a hatnote; no disambiguation page is needed." and in the example the articles actually share names, this isn't even the case here. So I'm sorry but throwing the "Disambig" rules around actually supports the "Kane (wrestler)" with a hat note supporters.  MPJ -DK  03:46, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
    • Then we're good. Just because two users oppose this doesn't mean a consensus can't be determined, especially when the opposition clearly is the minority. No one ever 100% agrees with everthing... and yet we still get a consensus. Done. 04:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Taryn Terrell → Tiffany (wrestler)

She used her real name just for the Diva Search and in OVW and those only lasted 1 year and she has used the name Tiffany on ECW and Smackdown for 2 years but since she used her real name only in OVW I don't think I would here people calling her by her real name.--C23 C23's talk 14:17, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

I would wait on this one just a little bit longer seeing as shes only been with WWE for 2 years let her get a little more work under the belt before we move the page.--Steam Iron 17:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Oppose - Apparently unbeknownst to the nominator, she was a Playboy model under her real name and also did other photo shoots with other companies. Definitely notable under her real name, and probably even more notable than "Tiffany". Raaggio 20:39, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Oppose based on her activities outside of the WWE.   ArcAngel   (talk) (review) 17:53, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Angel Williams → Angelina Love

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

With a consensus of 6 editors I think we can make this move.--C23 C23's talk 13:38, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

While we are at it, might as well move this due to common name. Won the Knockout Title in TNA three times. Only competed in one major promotion, that being TNA, in a major role. Simple common name move.--WillC 04:09, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

  • Support. She is not known in mainstream under any other name. Although it is just speculation, she did say she something on the lines that she'll be in TNA for the next 5 years so she will most likely keep the name. Raaggio 12:10, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Support--C23 C23's talk 13:19, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Adam Copeland → Edge (wrestler)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

With no opposition and a consensus among 4 editors I think we can make this move--C23 C23's talk 13:41, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

While wrestling under the name Sexton Haedcastle for some time in his Early Career he wasn't in a noteable company and therefore more people would no him for the name he's used for 12 years in the WWE, Edge.--C23 C23's talk 13:32, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Support has been Edge for as long as I can remember.--Steam Iron 17:51, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Support - Yeah, Edge is obviously his common name. Raaggio 20:53, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Support Tony2Times (talk) 17:56, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Nelson Erazo → Homicide (wrestler)

The bulk of his career has been as Homicide. He was the first FIP World Heavyweight Champion and one-half of the first PWG World Tag Team Champions as Homicide. He has also worked in ROH, PWG, FIP, TNA, etc as Homicide. Held the NWA and TNA World Tag, TNA X Division, and the ROH World Championship as Homicide. Simple common name move.--WillC 01:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Chris Parks → Abyss (wrestler)

Held the NWA World Tag and NWA World Heavyweight under Abyss, and been using it in TNA and other promotions for several years now. Common name move.--WillC 14:41, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

  • Mild Support, he apparently wrestled for 7 years before TNA under a variety of names. If someone showed me evidence suggesting he was at all notable for any of this work I might oppose or go neutral, in lieu of that I support. (and is there really no reliable source for his birth date?) Tony2Times (talk) 17:04, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Support Is see Tony's oint but TNA is the most noteable company he's been in.--The guy dubbed Curtis23 Curtis23's talk 22:14, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Shawn Hernandez → Hernandez (wrestler)

Held the TNA Tag and NWA Tag under Hernandez. Competed for the TNA Title as Hernandez. Working in other promotions as Hernandez. Simple common name move.--WillC 14:41, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Common name is common name. I would say Finlay though is up in the air though. WCW and some of WWE as Fit Finlay, while just Finlay recently in WWE.--WillC 17:43, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Scott Levy → Raven (wrestler)

Must I explain this one? Out of all of his ring names, this one has been used in TNA, ROH, WWE/F, WCW, ECW, NWA, etc. Common name clearly imo.

  • Support Despite time as Scotty Flamingo and the like he became Raven just before the late '90s boom. Wrestled in America's Big Five companies under that name winning titles everywhere sans ROH under the moniker. Tony2Times (talk) 18:07, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Shantelle Malawski → Taylor Wilde

Simple common name move, two time Knockout Champion and one time knockout tag champion. Been in TNA for about two years now.--WillC 14:41, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Support Well as a 3-time champion in TNA I think she can be moved.--The guy dubbed Curtis23 Curtis23's talk 22:20, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Jessica Kresa → ODB (wrestler) or O.D.B.

Worked in several promotions as ODB, and is a 3 time knockout champion. Simple common name move again.--WillC 14:41, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I'd say ODB (wrestler) as ODB could just as easily, in fact more likely, mean Ol' Dirty Bastard. Also, most of the time I've seen the acronym without full stops. Tony2Times (talk) 15:16, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
Support- Like Raven, there is no doubt this is her common name after using the ring name in various promotions. RaaGgio (talk) 15:31, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Rey Mysterio, Jr. → Rey Mysterio and Rey Misterio, Sr. → Rey Misterio

They both have different names (although the difference is just the "i/y") so I believe they can be named accordingly. A hat-note to each other's article is suffice I believe. They are already placed so there is no need for the "Sr." and "Jr." RaaGgio (talk) 21:58, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Support as above. I thought about Rey Mysterio but wasn't sure if I should put it up so thanks.--The guy dubbed Curtis23 Curtis23's talk 22:24, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Oppose: To many different spellings of Jr.'s name. He at one point wrestled as Rey Misterio I do believe and won the WCW Cruiserweight Championship.--WillC 22:27, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
That's why I didn;t put it up.--The guy dubbed Curtis23 Curtis23's talk 22:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Yes, but "Rey Mysterio" his WP:COMMONNAME. And even if it weren't, a hatnote would suffice for distinguishing the pages. RaaGgio (talk) 22:36, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Yes, the name is his common name. But he has several spells and gained fame under each one. If anything, I feel it should be at his actual name.--WillC 01:27, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
Per WP:COMMONNAME, the article title should be "Rey Mysterio". What guideline are you referencing when you think it should be at the birthname? RaaGgio (talk) 03:10, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm saying spellings. They are all pronounced the same way. But each spelling has its own notability.--WillC 04:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
How can you object to Morrison being renamed because of his two and a bit years as Johnny Nitro but be for this when Rey spent 12 years using the Jr moniker, including five years during the wrestling boom of the late '90s on Nitro? Tony2Times (talk) 08:31, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
I know he wrestled under the Jr. moniker, but how can you disagree that "Rey Mysterio" is his WP:COMMONNAME? He used the Jr. moniker in WCW and ECW, but has wrestled for the past 9 years as "Rey Mysterio" where he won the Royal Rumble and World Heavyweight Championship. Surely, it is his common name. And per WP:COMMONNAME, if a common name can be established in a consensus, then the article should be named by it. RaaGgio (talk) 05:29, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
I disagree with it because he wrestled in ECW and half his time in WCW as Rey Misterio, Jr and the other half in WCW as Rey Mysterio, Jr before going to WWE and wrestling as Rey Mysterio. I don't know whether you're mistaken or you just didn't articulate it well/I'm not reading it properly, but it comes across as if you think he wrestled in ECW and WCW as Rey Mysterio by the way. Tony2Times (talk) 08:45, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
(Reworded my last statement) Tony, I know he wrestled a lot under Rey Mysterio, Jr. and Rey Misterio, Jr., but for the past 9 years, he has been "Rey Mysterio". In those 9 years, he has gotten his career's highest accomplishments (Royal Rumble, World Heavyweight Championship, Intercontinental Championship). It is quite obvious that the most notable name is "Rey Mysterio" and it is obviously his Most Common Name. RaaGgio (talk) 12:21, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
He debuted on SmackDown late July 2002 so he's been Rey Mysterio for only seven and a half years, but even then I don't know if recentism should effect an encyclopedia. During the wrestling boom when it was at its pinnacle in the '80s and he was one of the major stars of WCW's popular cruiserweight division he was Jr, not to mention his lasting legacy in ECW and the five years in AAA and some appearances in Japan with WAR. Tony2Times (talk) 13:42, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
And you honestly believe that his stints in ECW and AAA plus his tenure in WCW's Cruiserweight division are more notable then his 7 and a half years in the globally broadcasted biggest wrestling company of the world where he won their top prize, main evented their biggest event, won one of their highest honors and won several of their prestigious titles? I feel like its pretty concrete that the most notable part of his career is in WWE plus the fact that most people know him as "Rey Mysterio" RaaGgio (talk) 14:34, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
No I'm saying that (according to Cagematch.de) his 115 appearances on Mexican national TV with AAA, 245 internationally televised appearances in WCW during the biggest boom period and most watched era of wrestling amounting along with 9 ECW matches make him just as notable as Jr as his 356 internationally televised appearances during the industry's subsequent downturn without the Jr suffix. Tony2Times (talk) 17:25, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

John Hennigan → John Morrison

He's better known under that name. --68.45.16.61 (talk) 23:50, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Triple Crown Championship & Grand Slam Championship Merger (continued)

I created a prototype for the merger of the two articles here: User:Raaggio/Triple Crown (professional wrestling). What do you guys think? Raaggio 22:32, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

That would do fine, but article name I'm not so sure of. Triple Crown and Grand Slam Championship seems kind of awkward. I think the key tables should go first before the champions table, like in today's FLs.--WillC 22:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
I think we can do without most of the color scheming, but I'll place the key at the beginning as you wanted to. Personally, I dislike the whole color scheming all together. Is all that trivial information really notable? Does it really matter which brand someone belonged to when they achieved the Triple Crown? Raaggio 22:47, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
If the brand extension was followed to the letter it would be notable. But since it has lost significance since then, probably not.--WillC 22:52, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Then what could we do about the color scheming in the tables? Raaggio 01:50, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
Remove it.--WillC 02:40, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
I don't think the branding is notable in anyway. If the titles never moved across maybe, but even they do so it's not like there's a SmackDown Triple Crown and Raw Triple Crown. Tony2Times (talk) 02:50, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

So guys, what do we do about the article title? Do we leave it at "Triple Crown Championship", should I move it to "Triple Crown (professional wrestling)" or are there any suggestions? Raaggio 12:12, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

"Triple Crown Championship" is fine. By definition a Grand Slam Champion is also a Triple Crown Champion, so I don't think it would be necessary to have it in the article name (it'd be like having an article called "New World Order and The Outsiders"). Jeff Silvers (talk) 04:10, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
We do have the articles New World Order (professional wrestling) and The Outsiders (professional wrestling).--WillC 02:44, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

WWE Raw episode number on the infobox

I added a template in WWE Raw that would update the number weekly. Does that cause a problem or is it okay? Raaggio 04:21, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm cool with that, that template will help alot of our articles.--WillC 05:09, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm just saying two words "dog show" - according to the counter Raw has never been preempted even once since 1993? I do believe the USA network has done it in the past. Just saying that this may not be accurate.  MPJ -DK  05:46, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
I think that's been taken care of. The show's start date was January 11 while the template's start date is May 24, essentially excluding any week when the show was pre-empted and giving us the correct value. If another occasion happens in the future, all we'd have to do is adjust the template's start date to May 31, etc. --  Θakster   09:32, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
I have just realised a potential problem with using an automated template though. The template adds another episode to the count right on midnight of the Monday rather than the actual airtime hours later, which goes against WP:CRYSTAL in that it assumes an episode would be aired that night no matter what, when a last minute cancellation could very happen. --  Θakster   10:41, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Crap, I also forgot that Misplaced Pages uses UTC so Raw technically ends at 3:00am Tuesday. I will change the template to change on Tuesday, but there are still three hours of apparent WP:CBALL violation. Hmmm what to do... what to do Raaggio 01:37, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
This is an occassion where we should ignore the rule.--WillC 03:53, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Yeah I think ignoring the rule would be best; is there no code to allow you to choose a specific time of day when it changes? Tony2Times (talk) 12:25, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
I searched for it thoroughly. If it exists, it is buried in the deep vowels of Misplaced Pages. RaaGgio (talk) 15:54, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Just in case we don't find one, I've just made a modified version of Template:Age in weeks in my sandbox, which includes time. So for instance typing in {{User:Oakster/Sandbox 3|month1=05|day1=25|year1=1993|hour1=01|minute1=00}} should give at an hour before tonight's Raw start 880 and an hour after Raw's start 881. Now all I need is a decent name for the template for general use within Misplaced Pages. --  Θakster   19:43, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
I think Template:Age in weeks2 would suffice. RaaGgio (talk) 03:12, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
Okay, it's at Template:Age in weeks 2 then. Hope this helps. --  Θakster   08:34, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Million Dollar Championship reactivation

Edits to Ted DiBiase, Jr., Million Dollar Championship, and List of current champions in World Wrestling Entertainment that reflect Ted, Jr.'s status as the current Million Dollar Champion (as of April 5) have been reverted on the basis that he might just be appearing with the belt as a prop. That said, Jerry Lawler actually referred to DiBiase as the current champion on that edition of Raw; he listed the previous champions (Ted, Sr., Austin, and Virgil), then said "and now, Ted DiBiase". Given the "unsanctioned" nature of the Million Dollar Championship it's unlikely we'll see a title history appear on WWE.com, so isn't a WWE employee actually calling DiBiase the champion a good enough reference? Jeff Silvers (talk) 21:15, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Jeff and was gonna make the same point. It's an unsanctioned championship so WWE won't list him as champion, they don't list Austin or Virgil either and the commentators said he was the holder of it. Tony2Times (talk) 22:58, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
"show off his father's Million Dollar Championship, which he brought with him to the ring" Really doesn't sound like WWE consider him to be the champion to me. Also, I looked up that segment on youtube again to remind myself of what the commentators said. Neither Cole nor Lawler said he was the current champion - they both said he got the championship from his father and went on to list the other champions. Jr never called himself the champion either. I've searched all the reliable sources for Raw results and they all just say he brought the belt out to the ring and cut a promo on his dad. No mention of him being the Million Dollar Champion. We can't add it without a source. Saying he's the champion is pure WP:OR and speculation on our part. In my opinion the obvious thing to do is wait and see if the situation is clarified next week on Raw. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 23:41, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
You have me convinced. :D RaaGgio (talk) 02:39, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
unsanctioned? Really? The company has to agree for a title belt to appear on their broadcast. It isn't owned by WWE persay, but it certainly isn't a non-recognized title by WWE. Unsanctioned titles don't really exist. It is just a storyline.--WillC 03:49, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
It's just a storyline. –Turian (talk) 03:50, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
So is anyone winning any championship in wrestling and in storyline this championship is unsanctioned. Just like the Intergender Tag Team Championship wasn't really unsanctioned by ROH but in storyline it was and guess what: it isn't on their title history. Tony2Times (talk) 06:42, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Ted Junior's WWE bio is now listing the Million Dollar Championship as a career highlight; is this sufficient to source articles with? Tony2Times (talk) 10:30, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Whoa, in my opinion, yes. But I want to know what Nici has to say first. RaaGgio (talk) 22:20, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Yeah I wanted to hear from Nici too, save on reverts. Tony2Times (talk) 23:35, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
So is thing active or what? 01:43, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I say it is active. If he is credited with a reign in his bio on WWE.com. Then that would make it official.--WillC 02:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Well I was hoping to hear from Nici but she might forget she posted her so I'm gonna go ahead and start sourcing it, hope no-one minds. Tony2Times (talk) 08:58, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm cool with it, I already updated the table.--WillC 09:01, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Timeline of all PPV events

Is the time line really needed Timeline of all PPV events Is sloppy and hard to read is it really necessary.--Steam Iron 05:03, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Not really. I feel it would be better in a list of all WWE PPVs. The table can be redone. I believe it was placed in there by a novice user or ip. List of WWE pay-per-view events really should be turned into a prose article imo.--WillC 05:06, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
What do you mean?--Steam Iron 05:08, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
That we create a List of WWE monthly pay-per-view events and move the above article to World Wrestling Entertainment pay-per-view event titles. Then turn the above article into an article about the history of ppvs, and not a schedule. An actual article, rather than a list. The timeline can be placed in the new list. See the rough draft of what I'm talking about being done with TNA: Total Nonstop Action Wrestling pay-per-view event titles and List of TNA monthly pay-per-view events.--WillC 21:24, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
That could be a good idea so one would be about the monthly events then the next one would be about all the ppv's WWE has ever held right?--Steam Iron 22:08, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
If the first one is an article, the second one is unnecessary, IMO. RaaGgio (talk) 22:22, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Not exactly, the second is alot like an episode list that tv shows have. Instead swtiched with PPVs, while the main article is history of event titles. See TNA Bound for Glory for an example to a degree.--WillC 23:42, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
Still seems like a list to me; just one full of list cruft. RaaGgio (talk) 02:35, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
If a list of that nature is listcruft, then that means that plenty of lists over events and episodes would have been deleted for the same reason. Also, the list can be completed and fully sourced so right there establishes a bit of notability. List of WWE pay-per-view events would classify as listcruft and any lists of held events in any title article would aswell. The only difference, is that the proposed list would list every PPV event ever held by WWE.--WillC 04:02, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

List of People who have held more than one World Heavyweight Title in Professional Wrestling‎

Yeah, this was created a while ago. I've tried to redirect it but a user keeps reverting saying a discussion is needed so instead of edit war, here we are. Now imo this is obviously listcruft and not notable. Should we redirect, delete, or keep the article?--WillC 13:47, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

We decided a while back with the huge List of World Heavyweight Champions tally type of list, that these were cruft and never could be fully accurate. Afro (Blah Blah Here) 14:06, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
Crufty list where we'll never be able to agree on the criteria for inclusion - what is a "world champion" in wrestling after all? Delete, delete and delete.  MPJ -DK  18:19, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Prod it--Steam Iron 19:18, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Prodded. –Turian (talk) 19:33, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
This should be speedied... Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of multiple world heavyweight champions in professional wrestling (2nd nomination) 20:34, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Took care of it. 20:46, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Championships & accomplishments

I have a question about the following section. I have seen that the tag teams have a normal section, but a tag team breaks the section, because we have wroten the month and the year when the wrestler won and lose the championship. You can see the New World Order's section. Why the article has antoher section?--HHH Pedrigree (talk) 22:22, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I think someone tried this as an attempt to stop people adding all title reigns to stables, making it clear that they had to come from a certain time frame. Personally, I quite like it like that for a stable but I think consensus is not to do that as The Hardyz and DX have had theirs changed since being like that. Tony2Times (talk) 01:50, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Lucha Libre AAA: Héroes del Ring

The information about the game is in this link. Information has been updated.

--XOTERS (talk) 01:05, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Titled Defences

I was planning on making a new page called List of ____ Championship Matches. I'v googled it and there is nowhere on the internet that actually has a full list of all title matches. I thought maybe if I made it then someone would delete because it too much like the list of world champions page. So I thought either I do the new page or, the title of the other page is changed to list of ____ champions and defences. I would then add to the page. I'll do a page for all the title. Just wanted to make sure it was ok before I go through all the trouble. JasarDaConqueror (talk) 11:34, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

  • the problem is that, as you said yourself, there is nowhere on the net with a full list of all title matches, which means it's near impossible to determine if the list is complete or not - after all how do you prove a negative? How do you prove that no other title matches took place than the ones you list?? I think you are dangerously close to WP:LISTCRUFT territory, if not actually in it. That being said - if you make a list in your own userspace and show the list full sourced with reliable sources then maybe. Frankly this is an impossible task to do for "all the titles", do you know how many there are? and how few reliable sources cover wrestling in enough detail for such a list?  MPJ -DK  11:43, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Another problem is for WWF/E, WCW and TNA at least, and maybe for the latter days of AWA and WCCW but I'm not sure, is the debate about whether house show/non televised defences count or not. The title matches at house shows almost never play into storylines so it feels like they should be discounted, but then it has been known for titles to change hands at non-televised events so they can't be entirely ignored. Maybe for ROH, IWGP and GHC Titles which keep track of every title defence it would work, but definitely not every title. I also don't know if it would look that good either. Tony2Times (talk) 12:19, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Ok, it'll save me the time anyway. JasarDaConqueror (talk) 15:29, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Active members list

It's the time of year to do a survey to determine which members of WP:PW are actively editing. I'll create a message to be sent to all the members and have a bot send it out. RaaGgio (talk) 16:00, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

How does that work, a certain number of edits omung PW articles will keep them on the list? Sephiroth storm (talk) 21:32, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
No, a message is sent to each member and they confirm their membership by placing themselves on this list. RaaGgio (talk) 22:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Would you mind putting a template of the message here first?--The guy dubbed Curtis23 Curtis23's talk 23:26, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Once upon a time, WP:PW had a portal...

Why have we stopped updating the portal? I remember a few years ago when we were discussing to make a portal and some people like Naha objected due to the portal "eventually being abandoned by the project". I guess we all deserve a big "I told you so". RaaGgio (talk) 02:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Nici usually updates it. She and I had plans to make it featured, but we never got around to it. Now that I think about it, maybe I'll try to make it featured.--WillC 02:28, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Can GAs be selected articles also? RaaGgio (talk) 05:56, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Probably, I'll look into it.--WillC 19:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Our Featured Topic

Our featured topic, List of current champions in World Wrestling Entertainment' title is misleading. Its title infers that the encompassing articles would be the bios of the champions themselves. Instead, it encompasses the championship histories. I think a change is needed. Any thoughts? RaaGgio (talk) 06:05, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

The Newsletter

Just a quick survey here. Who actually of the project reads the biweekly newsletter? RaaGgio (talk) 12:21, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

I Do.--Steam Iron 18:37, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
I work on and read it regularly.--WillC 18:52, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Oh okay, just asking because I added a notice for the Active members list, but if people don't actually read the newsletter, they won't see it. RaaGgio (talk) 21:50, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
I tend to read it, I normally have already read the information but there's usually one thing each issue I haven't seen. Tony2Times (talk) 23:37, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

SmackDown moving to Syfy

According to the LA Times . 03:15, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Woo, I'll finally get to see it; here in Puerto Rico, there's no MyTV. Add it to the article, LA Times is a WP:RS. RaaGgio (talk) 03:32, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe WWE can steal me back from TNA now, after they destroyed the Knockouts division, among other things, I have very little inclination to watch. (This goes to notability). Sephiroth storm (talk) 22:33, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Non-Move and non-WWE related

Well I thought it was time for something that was not related to moving articles and not related to the WWE... so the the four of you that are still reading after that ;) I have begun expanding the January 4 Dome Show article with the table format for results and actually doing more than just listing the results. I started with the 1997 event cause I found a Power Slam magazine covering it and had lots of input and I plan on expanding others as well. But there are 19 shows all together, I was hoping that maybe someone else would pitch in with the article? Maybe a "common non-WWE collaboration" type of thing.  MPJ -DK  07:39, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm game, the last two events have featured TNA, so their Global Impact! DVD may have some usful information.--WillC 04:08, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced living people articles

This list is now active. There are currently 110 Unreferenced Professional wrestling articles. Regards, SunCreator 21:02, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Can we nominate...

... List of WWE Divas Champions for FL so we can complete the featured topic? RaaGgio (talk) 05:34, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

No, it has to be at least 10 champions. I would have nominated it already if it was doable.--WillC 17:22, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Why does it have to be at least 10 champions? RaaGgio (talk) 22:19, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Team LayCool, should it exist?

Team Lay-Cool was created a while back, firstly I don't know if it's worthy of an article but I can see both sides of the argument so if anyone else feels more strongly than speak and be heard. Secondly, if we do keep it it needs some subediting en masse for almost every issue you could think of from grammar to references. Tony2Times (talk) 13:37, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

I tagged it with CSD7 and CSD10. No indication of important, and duplicate of existing articles. There isn't much information to significantly differentiate from Michelle McCool and Layla El. If they stay together post-draft, they might have enough information in a few months. However, until then, it should be prodded. RaaGgio (talk) 14:43, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Yeah my thoughts are similar. Tony2Times (talk) 17:29, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Active members list

Guys, add yourselves to the "Active members" list. It will eventually appear in the newsletter for all the others who don't participate much at WP:PW. RaaGgio (talk) 22:21, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

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