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:::::I don't think it's worthy of inclusion at all, per ]. So what if an openly gay gossip blogger, who likes to doodle the word "HO" on women's photos, said she was a dumb b___h? Later, he said he was thinking the c word. Should we put his error in the article? -- ] 23:18, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::I don't think it's worthy of inclusion at all, per ]. So what if an openly gay gossip blogger, who likes to doodle the word "HO" on women's photos, said she was a dumb b___h? Later, he said he was thinking the c word. Should we put his error in the article? -- ] 23:18, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::If we eliminate the participation of Hilton, we'd have to eliminate most of the article, as Prejean's fame beyond yet-another-state-pagaent-winner lies in the interactions with Hilton and the public reactions thereto. --] (]) 00:07, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
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Someone just deleted the Perez Hilton quote calling Carrie Prejean a "dumb bitch", citing concerns over WP:BLP and WP:NPOV.
Per WP:BLP: Criticism and praise of the subject should be represented if it is relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to take sides
It is hard to claim that the Hilton statement is not key to the subject's notability; it was key in turning her from just another non-winner of a pagaent into a cause celebre.
The use of the quote does not appear to take sides; it is clearly attributed to one of the players in the incident, and can be seen at least as much as reflecting negatively on Hilton as on Prejean.
I will be restoring the quote, and adding a second source to firm up the reliability (not that there's anything wrong with ABC News as a source, but both times they run the quote, the censor it, as either "dumb b----" or "dumb b**ch". --Nat Gertler (talk) 14:33, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
I tweaked it. I don't think the information content is materially lessened if we don't fully quote him. It's a matter of degree. Hilton said many things about Prejean but we don't have to include the actual words to capture the event. This is a BLP after all.Mattnad (talk) 16:38, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes, the information content is materially lessened if we censor this, the heart of his statement and the heart of what he was being criticized for - criticism that receives substantial coverage here. To expend effort describing what was said when what was said is much clearer representation seems pointless. By merely describing it as a "derogatory term" does not make it clear in what ways or on what levels it was derogatory;under that, he could have just been making fun of her name, rather than insulting her intelligence and invoking a term that many would consider sexist. --Nat Gertler (talk) 18:43, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
I've read the section in the article. There's nothing in there about Hilton's sexism or reactions to his comments on her intelligence. Most of the commentary / writing is around the politics of same-sex marriage and comments from selected stakeholders about the topic of Prejean's point of view on the subject. I suppose a few readers could misinterpret "derogatory name" to mean Hilton was making fun of her name, so we could substitute "derogatory term" to be more precise. But in the end, I'm not quite seeing the value to the article based on notability. I'd argue it's more relevant (if at all) to Hilton's article since it says more about his hostility to women than Prejean.Mattnad (talk) 19:28, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes, but the reaction to the comments needs context to make sense - reacting to specificity and harshness of what was said. If we were saying that Perez's comments were accurate, or if we were calling her that ourselves and sourcing it to Perez's rant, then we'd have a BLP concerns... but we aren't. Far from it, we're showing that that descriptor of her got condemnation. As such, I'm missing what purpose being vague over being precise has. As for notability, googling "Perez Hilton" and "Dumb bitch" gets over 13000 google hits, including news sources in the US, UK, Australia; searching "Perez Hilton", "dumb", and "Prejean" (to find sites that might have used an edited version of the second word) gets close to 200,000. It seems to have been noted. -Nat Gertler (talk) 21:01, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
I don't think it's worthy of inclusion at all, per WP:IINFO. So what if an openly gay gossip blogger, who likes to doodle the word "HO" on women's photos, said she was a dumb b___h? Later, he said he was thinking the c word. Should we put his error in the article? -- Rico23:18, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
If we eliminate the participation of Hilton, we'd have to eliminate most of the article, as Prejean's fame beyond yet-another-state-pagaent-winner lies in the interactions with Hilton and the public reactions thereto. --Nat Gertler (talk) 00:07, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
