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	Ottoman Empire was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result August 15, 2025 Good article nominee Listed May 4, 2007 Peer review Reviewed August 6, 2007 Good article reassessment Delisted December 17, 2008 Peer review Reviewed This article was on the Article Collaboration and Improvement Drive for the week of April 2, 2006. Current status: Delisted good article

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Archives

Please do not edit archived pages. If you want to react to a statement made in an archived discussion, please make a new header on THIS page. Baristarim 05:13, 24 November 2006 (UTC) Archives: Archived on June 20, 2004 Archived on May 7, 2006 Archived on November 24, 2006 Archived on March 20, 2007 Archived on July 16, 2007 Archived on November 12, 2008

Ottoman posessions in the Atlantic Ocean?

"such as Lanzarote (1585), Madeira (1617), Vestmannaeyjar (1627) and Lundy (1655)" please I have never heard of an invasion of the Ottomans in the Island of Madeira nor on Lanzarote, please verify the source of this statements !!

Talk Page Archive

Request moved from To Do list

There are various capitalization errors that need fixing. Many of the titles only have the first word capitalized. In the section titled "Decline and modernization" (which itself could be fixed), the last paragraph has the words "ottoman empire" uncapitalized. This is obviously not right for a proper noun. Someone who can should either fix this sentence or, actually, it seems that it could be excised completely without detracting from the article.

Since this page is semi-protected, my formal request is:

{{editsemiprotected}}

• Please change "ottoman empire" to "Ottoman Empire" in the section titled "Decline and modernization".
• Please update section title "Expansion and apogee" to "Expansion and Apogee".
• Please update section title "Revolts and revival" to "Revolts and Revival".
• Please update section title "Stagnation and reform" to "Stagnation and Reform".
• Please update section title "Decline and modernization" to "Decline and Modernization".

--Jayson Vantuyl (talk) 05:39, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

In the case of the first request, I actually ended up removing those two sentences at the end of the paragraph: they were fairly incoherent and seemed unnecessary. As for the four other requests,  Not done - I suggest you see WP:MOSHEAD, that's simply the way titles are capitalised on Misplaced Pages. Thanks! ~ mazca 20:31, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I see. I was confused by Ottoman Army (and others) below, not realizing that they were proper nouns made it all appear inconsistent. The Manual of Style shall be my new best friend. Thanks.--Jayson Vantuyl (talk) 14:18, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

                                 OTTOMAN FLAG IS FALSE!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.162.138.18 (talk) 21:17, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Genocide Anyone?

I just think Talat Pasha ordering the mass murder of 1.5 million Armenians in 1915 (making it the first genocide of the 20th century) is an important fact about the Ottoman/Turkish Empire.

Should we include Otranato (Italy) into the ottoman map?

Otranto was first invaded by the Turks in 1480 (although it only stayed under Turkish control for 1 year). It was then invaded yet again by Ottoman admiral Barbarossa in 1537. We should therefore include this in the map. Any other thoughts? Thetruthonly (talk) 15:51, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I guess Otranto is not suitable to be called an Ottoman dependency because it stayed under imperial rule for such a short time. Remember, the world was not this fast back then. When you lose some territory, you had to wait a year to be ready for another fight.Deliogul (talk) 00:33, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

The R.of Turkey did not succeed the Ottoman Emp.

The Ottoman Empire was not "succeeded by the Republic of Turkey". The Republic was the last region to emerge as an independent state from the empire and this meant the end of the empire - a little Serbia was the last state to emerge out of Yugoslavia, and this meant the end of Yugoslavia. Unlike the Empire, the Republic did not take up the califate, it became secular and the land of the Tukrs. It is a fact that there are emotional ties between the two and this can lead to misleading conclusions, but, with all due respect to the memory of Ataturk and the modern Turkish state, there was no succession. I suggest we edit accordingly that phrase in the introduction. Politis (talk) 12:32, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

OR, anyone? I can hardly imagine this is the mainstream position in scholarship. I'm not an expert, and I can only counter your OR with mine at this point, but it seems to me that the contemporaries very much did see the new Turkey as a continuation of the old. It certainly was considered as continuing the same international rights and obligations under international law. And it did inherit not only the symbols (flag etc.) but also the name, at least that used abroad: Turkey. Just compare the texts of the Treaties of Sèvres (with the Ottoman government) and that of Lausanne. Both treaties call the country Turkey. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:26, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Fut Perf, Turkey in fact succeceded the Ottoman Empire , to claim it didn't its like saying the German Empire was NOT suceeded by the Weimar republic.

Just one question, didn't the empire (as traditionally viewed by historians) start in 1453 with the capture of Constantinople? i think we should switch the date, 1299 seems like artifically enlarging the life span of the Empire.--EuroHistoryTeacher (talk) 22:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

1- So you are accepting that Ottoman Sultans were actually Kayzer-i Rums. Just joking. The first ruler that was called Sultan was Murad Hüdavendigar. It was back in mid 14th century. Also, we can say that the Battle of Kosovo of 1389 must be enough for cherishing the rise of the empire, if the assumed titles of rulers don’t impress you.

2- As far as I know, Turkish Republic officially succeeded the empire. It is not about opinions of scholars but about diplomatic stuff. Also, we must keep in mind that Caliphate was legally present under the republic, until it was abolished with the Kemalist reforms in 1924. Deliogul (talk) 00:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, it is an interesting question. How far can a modern nation state be the successor of an empire. Is Greece the successor of the Eastern Roman Empire/Greek Empire/Byzantium? Is England the successor of the British empire? Is Italy the successor of the Roman Empire? Thanks all for your food for thought. Politis (talk) 12:39, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I fail to see how the Ottoman Empire was "in many way an Islamic successor to the Byzantine Empire." True, the Ottomans conquered the Byzantines-however Ottomans were not Roman/Byzantine in any way in the form of religion/culture. User:Stephantom1

I have some sympathy with Politis' position on this but mainstream opinion confers the status of successor state upon the Republic of Turkey. siarach (talk) 02:44, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

As for England and the British Empire - England isn't even a country anymore than is Languedoc or Texas. Any analogy using the UK/British Empire is inappropriate. While the UK preceeded the Empire and was its founding state the Commonwealth is the continuation of the empire with the UK forming only a member state along with other nations which formerly made up the Empire. siarach (talk) 02:47, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I also agree with Stephantom. While the Ottoman Empire controlled broadly the same territories that were once under Byzantine dominion (when the eastern roman empire was at its greatest extent) and might have absorbed some of the administrative structure the idea that this somehow makes it a successor state isn't valid imo. siarach (talk) 02:52, 21 February 2009 (UTC) In fact, as some other people seem to agree with me, I'm thinking about removing it for the points stated above-that is unless anyone can prove that the Ottoman Empire was 'in many respects' an Islamic successor to the Byzantine Empire. What do people think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stephantom1 (talk • contribs) 19:56, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Constantinople

• The final and official replacement of Constantinople by Istanbul did not take place until 1930., "Istanbul and the Civilization of the Ottoman Empire", by Bernard Lewis, p. x

• The capital of the Ottoman Empire was originally called Constantinople.....and did not officially adopt the name Istanbul until 1930, "New Encyclopedia of Islam", by Cyril Glasse, p.229

• ...Constantinople was not officially renamed until 1930..., "Daily Life in Ancient and Modern Istanbul", by Robert Bator, p.33

• Istanbul was only adopted as the city's official name in 1930...., "Osman's Dream", by Caroline Finkel, p. 57

So much for "one hundred years ago". --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:45, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

It happened this way probably because Ottoman Sultans succeeded the throne of Roman Caesars via conquering the heart of the once mighty empire. It was not like "change this, change that". The dynasty used to give utmost respect to this heritage. Deliogul (talk) 00:54, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

The "change of a name" is only one perspective in this issue. The names of the cities changes with time. It is not unique to Istanbul. Misplaced Pages uses the current name in these articles. Good Example is New York City. We do not see different articles created for every name used by NY city, or Istanbul. On the other hand, Constantinople is not just a name of the city. It is a historical state centered around the city. There is an article devoted for it at the Misplaced Pages. User:Kansas Bear takes the problem only from one perspective. I wonder if he is aware that by constantly changing the references to the city (article Istanbul) to "Constantinople," he is creating an illusion that the "state Constantinople" is Istanbul. He is constantly creating "REDIRECT" from the word "Constantinople" in the articles to the page "Istanbul." Many of my friends surprised when they click on the "Constantinople" link and find themselves in the city of Istanbul. In the past, to my friends, I had to explain the difference between these two entities. I just want to give a friendly reminder, being correct on one perspective is not being totally right. Misplaced Pages avoid redirects as a rule. If the Article name is Istanbul, we should keep the links as Istanbul. User:Kansas Bear should argue over changing the name of Istanbul to "Constantinopole." By the way what would happen if I act like Kansas Bear but replace "Constantinople ("City of Constantine") " to "Kostantiniyye." Which one has the highest authority? It is better to use what Misplaced Pages used in the article created for the city. --Deniz Gokturk (talk) 16:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't the article link to Istanbul, and just say that prior to 1930 the city was known internationally as Constantinople? Ultimately, we're talking about the same exact place, so the debate is a bit silly. Bombay is a really good example of how to deal with the change of a city name. Ultimately, we should obviously merge the article on Constantinople into Istanbul, and make it open just like Mumbai does. Hiberniantears (talk) 16:54, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

It is Easier Said Than Done. Currently there are two articles and three different ways for the same entity. I guess the first breakdown was between Turks and Greeks. They divide the city historically at the onset of the Fall of Constantinople (1453). Second breakdown occurred by the perspective of User:Kansas Bear. He links the article Istanbul between 1453 to 1930 using the name Constantinople. If you ask them, they come up with righteous reasons. They do not give away from their perspective and stubborn to others. This needs a Misplaced Pages size arbitration. --Deniz Gokturk (talk) 18:22, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

The city was officially and in daily parlance called Constantinople until Ataturk founded the Turkish Republic. Also, it was referred to by Greek and Turkish speakers as, Is tin Poli or Istabmbol/Stambol. The term 'Constantinople' spans both the Eastern Roman/Greek/Byzantine Empire, as well as the Ottomon/Turkish Empire. It is as 'Turkish' as it is 'Greek'; there is a fast growing acceptance of that reality amongst both peoples - just as they accepted in the past. Politis (talk) 11:29, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

What do you say Politis, is it a Greek Comedy to have two different articles for the same entity. I do not bother to ask your perspective on using different names depending on the articles, and creating stupid redirects. I guess, if you could see the problem created by this "war on names", you would not say "reality amongst both peoples." I'm having my tea looking at people preying at the historical sites at Istanbul. I guess my realities shaped by the present time. Not by historical arguments, or texts from Bible. The article Mumbai lives in the present time, not in the historical Bombay. What does this tell about you? Living in the present or past? My point is, give the deserved respect to past, but keep it in present, one article one united culture of the city, working all together rather than keeping two small article domains to each national perspective. --Deniz Gokturk (talk) 19:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Military Section

The article Military of the Ottoman Empire is a sub article on this topic which was already split up. The content of this section in this article should be an appropriate length for a "summary style." The text in this article is too big to far an WP:Summary Style. It is a major copy of the "Military of the Ottoman Empire," rather than a summary. It does not consider to balance other parts in the main page. A major negative point for/as a summary section; it does have subheadings of its own, which it should not have. As so, falling into being developing content by itself rather than the summary of the content already developed in the Military of the Ottoman Empire. This content has many issues such as being a POV fork (developing arguments rather than summarizing (becoming a spin-off)). — Cemil Yilburak (talk) 05:01, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

You didn't even bother to move the deleted information to the main article Military of the Ottoman Empire before deleting them from the Ottoman Empire article with the pretext of "summary editing". Many details have been lost. 85.153.24.5 (talk) 14:17, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Do not bite me. I wanted to do the best. Instead of attacking me on the personal level, help me to fix what is missing on the Military of the Ottoman Empire we can improve that article. I spend hours to give a balanced WP:Summary edit on this article. If you tell me what is missing on the , I will be happy to work with you to IMPROVE both articles. — Cemil Yilburak (talk) 15:35, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Is user:Shiham K really the User:Flavius Belisarius? I used the history search tool and find out that the edit controversial text by User:Flavius Belisarius matches the same text that user user:Shiham K is constantly reverting to. Cemil Yilburak (talk) 02:19, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Capital

Capital:

Söğüt (1299–1326) Bursa (1326–1365) Edirne (1365–1453) Constantinople (1453–1922)

What is Constantinople? I think this is İstanbul since 1453. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.97.129.241 (talk) 19:51, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Rise of the Ottoman Empire

Who wants to help me expand Rise of the Ottoman Empire? It's in need of referencing (big time) and its sections don't cover enough for the article. Master&Expert (Talk) 00:20, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

WHY THE CAPITAL IS CONSTANTINOPLE?

these things are rude, city of the name is Istanbul, we live in istanbul and we say there as istanbul - not constantinople, when will you get it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.228.220.223 (talk) 23:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Istanbul wasn't around until 1930. The Ottoman Empire was dead by 1922. When will people blinded by nationalism such as yourselves get it?Gabr-el 05:56, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Convention of Constantinople - an example of a Turkish and International usage of the city's name pre-1930. Gabr-el 05:57, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

User:Gabr-el, please do not call it 'nationalism'... because we do not see the old name of New York- New Amsterdam-written in articles before 1667 do we? Or places of Greece which had Turkish names (e.g. Selanik) written in all those articles. In fact it is those who still believe today’s Istanbul to be Constantinople who are being nationalistic but I’m sure you wont agree with my point of view... since at wikipedia Turkish people are always wrong. Turco85 (Talk) 16:05, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

It was officially renamed to its modern Turkish name Istanbul in 1930 with the Turkish Postal Service Law, as part of Atatürk's national reforms. It would help if these people knew their own history!!! --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:09, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

It would also help if my opponents did not try to drag in the race card here. If Turks want to believe that their nation is the best nation in the world, that's perfectly fine and up to them. If they want to reinvent their history, go ahead, but not on Misplaced Pages. Why would we write down Greek cities in Turkish? That's completely irrelevant. They haven't lost their Greek names under the Ottoman Empire, the Greeks did not call them by the Turkish names. Your New York - New Amsterdam example is so flawed and irrelevant - this is about a city that was called Constantinople from 330 to 1930. New Amsterdam is not valid when discussing the city from the time of its renaming. We don't call it New Amsterdam in most articles because most articles about New Amsterdam are post-Dutch rule, when it was called New York!! You have proven yourself to be both a poor logician and a poor historian.Gabr-el 16:17, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Did I say that it is wrong that Constantinople is written in the article? No I did not. I only responded because you are calling people nationalists which is, in my view, inappropriate. I am not your ‘opponent’…but this comment has once again shown how aggressive users are towards the Turkish wikipedians... this is not the first time I observe this and it will certainly not be the last. Turco85 (Talk) 17:16, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I said he was blinded by nationalism, whats your point? I have nothing against Turkish Wikipedians; do not accuse me of being racist against Turks by saying I am aggressive towards them. The line above is very nationalistic. That is all I said. This issue has been done to death. Gabr-el 17:45, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

But you also questioned my academic knowledge. If you do not want to be perceived as aggressive, then please be a bit more respectful. Turco85 (Talk) 17:51, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

It seems to be getting somewhat better on WP, Turco, but you are correct, the depth of prejudice against Turks is so deep and so unconscious that the Turk-haters are able to run around and do pretty much what they want. I can't think of another ethnic group that is as mistreated on WP. For example, think of Kansas Bear's sentence above, "It would help if these people knew their own history!!!"--and try to imagine that he addressed that sentence to an African-American--the rush of good editors denouncing him would be overwhelming. But when he says this to a Turk, no one speaks up.--Anthon.Eff (talk) 18:02, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

So is this the reason you edit wikipedia? So you can indirectly call someone a racist? You want to talk about race, why don't you address the NUMEROUS times I've been called an Armenian, Kurd, or Iranian? How about checking the 3 times my page has been vandalized and check where those IP addresses lead. Who should I address when the evidence states: "It was officially renamed to its modern Turkish name Istanbul in 1930 with the Turkish Postal Service Law, as part of Atatürk's national reforms.", Dorothy and Toto? Since I use references, most people find that upsetting, so I'm anti-Turk(another label attached to me) and a racist. Pity no one EVER cares to check my page where I clearly show my ancestry(since it's of such great importance), which I should know since I've done the genealogy! Don't cry to me if people don't know their own history. --Kansas Bear (talk) 19:48, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

If you hate Turks, why not just admit it? Apparently it's perfectly acceptable to hate Turks on WP. If you don't hate Turks, why not make a big effort and try to treat them with respect--maybe even write something NPOV about Turkey once in a while. Your choice. --Anthon.Eff (talk) 02:21, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Really? Let me guess, there's a Genocide going on in Misplaced Pages, in the form of numerous blocks on Turkish Wikipedians? This whole anti-Turk issue is something of your making; look at the way you are trying to court Turco, and how you present an allegation that wikipedia is anti-Turkish. At the end of the day, me and Kansas bear are defending the truth, which is that Istanbul was never the capital of the Empire, just as New Amsterdam was never the capital of the United States during the War of Independence (because neither correspond to the correct time frame). Witnesses to the fact that you are attacking us for defending the truth, regardless if its presented in a manner that is a little sensitive to yourselves. Gabr-el 18:20, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Zenith

when was the empire at it's greatest extent? say, prior to the outbreak of the First World War it would also help if you could provide a map? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.235.132.219 (talk) 22:44, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

• Delisted good articles
• Old requests for peer review
• All unassessed articles
• B-Class Turkey articles
• Top-importance Turkey articles
• All WikiProject Turkey pages
• Misplaced Pages pages with to-do lists