Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 21:52, 5 December 2008

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Misplaced Pages User pages policies vs FREE SPEECH protected by First Amendment to the US Constitution

In USA Misplaced Pages is registered as public organization. Does this mean that Misplaced Pages User pages policies should comply with rights (such as FREE SPEECH) protected by US Constitution ? Apovolot (talk) 00:40, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Would this have anything to do with this by any chance? – iridescent 00:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes (in part) and particularly with the following comment there, which raised my curiosity level: "Changed my vote (above) to regular Delete due to the relentless campaign by User:Apovolot, who uses arguments like 'free speech' that are not to be found in Misplaced Pages policy. EdJohnston 03:11, 1 December 2008 (UTC)" Apovolot (talk) 00:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

... the short answer to your question is "No", and I suggest you read the First Amendment. It's a classic, but often misunderstood, sometimes for comic effect. --Rodhullandemu 00:47, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Still no, I'm afraid. The first amendment covers us inasmuch as the state can't censor our articles, but Arbcom isn't a government and Jimbo isn't a president. As an independent organisation, we're bound by those rules we choose to be bound by ourselves. – iridescent 00:55, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Dear Rodhullandemu - should I consider your reply as rendering of legal opinion ? Apovolot (talk) 00:57, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Of course. I am a lawyer. You are not, otherwise you wouldn't make such a basic mistake as ot the scope of the First Amendment. --Rodhullandemu 01:17, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law..." It says nothing about private websites, which Misplaced Pages is. The Wikimedia Foundation, which owns Misplaced Pages, has the right to say that anything may not be included, for any reason. They have allowed the community as a whole to decide the exact details, and thus we have WP:USERPAGE. A good essay to read regarding this is WP:FREE. J.delanoy_adds 01:07, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Besides the legal aspect of the issue, there is also a moral one: Should Misplaced Pages User pages policies try by free intent to comply with FREE SPEECH protected by US Constitution ? Apovolot (talk) 01:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

That question does not, as far as I know, have a definitive answer, since the decision has been largely left up to the community to decide. You could try starting a discussion at WT:USERPAGE, but I can practically guarantee you that you will get nowhere. J.delanoy_adds 01:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

This reply sounds like deja vu to me ... I think I have heard something like this before ? ... Oh yes: "Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated". Apovolot (talk) 01:44, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Or "You're using our server, you follow our rules" might be a less hyperbolic way to put it… – iridescent 01:49, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, isn't "our server, our rules" logic just serves as easy escape from facing moral issues question ? Apovolot (talk) 01:56, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

No. Our server = "What we want" is the only issue. No morals involved. – iridescent 02:03, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that anyone from Misplaced Pages will readily admit that Misplaced Pages's collective "What we want" is in contradiction with articles of US Constitution ? Apovolot (talk) 02:10, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Many, many people have told you that what Misplaced Pages disallows on its own servers is not covered by the Constitution. If you don't believe us, that is your problem. What are you going to do? Sue them for controlling what is placed on their own property? Go ahead. I'll bring the popcorn. J.delanoy_adds 02:15, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Or to put it more simply, would you allow me to come over to your house with a Magic Marker and scribble on the walls? By your logic, I would be exercising my "Constitutional rights". Please stop this; you're starting to cross the line that separates "commentary" from "disruption". – iridescent 02:17, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Most users from outside the U.S. certainly won't care. The issue of free speech may or may not be of concern, but not the extent to which Misplaced Pages's policies about the concept do or don't align with the U.S. constitution. I can't even imagine that many American users will be much troubled. And then there is the small point that what the U.S. constitution says about free speech has nothing to do with the rules of a non-governmental association. ៛ Bielle (talk) 02:20, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not an experiment in free speech. Misplaced Pages has a narrowly defined mission: It exists to be an encyclopedia and nothing else. Merely because anyone is allowed to contribute to that mission does not mean that anything goes. If content is so beyond the scope of creating an encylopedia, it must go. There is no moral conflict. The moral conflict would be if we allowed the mission of Misplaced Pages to be degraded by people taking advantage of the open nature of the software to pervert Misplaced Pages to their own means. We have one goal; building an encyclopedia. Any deviation from that goal represents a moral bad. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Free speech can be abused (like those cases of blasphemy and certain articles in Encyclopedia Dramatica), so no. Misplaced Pages may be a dictatorship of some sort, frankly speaking (although it is also made as a democracy), but it is for the better, rather than allowing users to attack or bash at people on their userspaces. Blake Gripling (talk) 04:20, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

This discussion (on this page, which in fact represents the *face* of Misplaced Pages) clearly shows to any *outsider* that Misplaced Pages, which I am sure was created with the noble goal of spreading the Knowledge and Truth, has eroded into "Borg-like" police state collective of brain-washed zealous fanatics, who prefer to blindly follow the "rules" instead of using their personal moral judgment. An amazed outsider will see in this discussion all vestiges of very unappealing, uncharismatic dictatorship without Human Face ... This is what happens when noble goals are pursued using wrong methods ! Apovolot (talk) 11:10, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Apovolot, stop the trolling and get to your point already. It is clear that you wanted to use Misplaced Pages to advertise or whatever, well, guess what. I'm going to be blunt here. Misplaced Pages is not for anyone to advertise anything. Have you read numerous encylopedias in your life? If so, look closely at the content(and I mean the paper/book ones, not anything online). Do you see ads anywhere? No? I didn't think so. We're here to write an encylopedia. We have rules here to keep the content neutral, and to keep others from using the space we are using to write an encyclopedia, to advertise their new cure-all tonic. We are not here to provide free ad-space. We are here to write an encyclopedia which will be completely neutral in tone. We are not here to provide free webspace for anyone. You want free webspace? Go to Yahoo or Google, I'm pretty sure they have something available in that regard, but also, they have rules. Terms of Service, if you will. I'm pretty sure that you, like most internet users, have seen that link to the ToS regarding any webservice of any sort. Here's the short story for you: Misplaced Pages is not governed by the US, nor the UN, nor any other nation or country. It is governed by the laws and rules layed out in the ToS, the policies created to help the ongoing, endless construction. If you can't follow our rules then find somewhere else to edit, just make sure it isn't here.— Dædαlus /_Improve 11:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

There has been a deletion discussion, as is our policy. The result of that deletion discussion was, delete. To be a member of wikipedia's community is to be bound by our policies and processes. The process was followed, the result was delete, and there's not much else to discuss in my opinion. Misplaced Pages is a mix of firm rules and community mores. We have deletion discussions when the issue is not clear, to get a gut-check from a variety of contributors. The mores have spoken. Why clutter up Jimbo's page with this? At best, the next step would be deletion review. That's the process. WLU (t) (c) 18:19, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Has anyone taken a look at International Law? Because the United Stated is joined to the United Nations, it has to follow some international laws. Is there any International laws allowing free speech? Techman224 21:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

A treaty cannot trump the US Constitution. The US Constitution guarantees freedom of speech (and, thus, the right of the Wikimedia Foundation to use their own server to say what they want to say and not say what they don't want to say). A treaty infringing on that right is unconstitutional. --B (talk) 21:49, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

The Wikimedia Foundation does not say anything that is on their servers, they are simply a provider of a forum that others use. Individual American's have the constitutional guarantee of free speech; however, a treaty can (and in some cases does) limit speech where there is a compelling government interest. See the Treaty Clause which lends considerable legal effect to treaties, including trumping US law where there is a conflict (for full treaties not legislative agreements or executive agreements). --Trödel 22:07, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

You have no freedom of speech on somebody else's web server. Period. The WMF can at its sole pleasure allow or disallow your speech here for any reason or for no reason. --B (talk) 22:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Again - you are uninformed, if the Foundation began to exercise editorial control over the information on Misplaced Pages it would lose the protections afforded it as a provider under US law. Therefore, the Foundation does not do so and the platform they provide becomes a forum for free speech where each individual is responsible for their own comments. Thus the WMF can not be sued for libel but the poster of the information can be. You should read Online service provider law and section 230 of the Communications Decency Act before you respond. --Trödel 22:29, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

As amusing as this is, it has nothing to do with either the original complaint - someone's user page was deleted - or the direct question I answered - what about international law. In any event, it's not a question of a user's rights being infringed. --B (talk) 22:44, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah, but it does have everything to do with the original complaint. The complainant is asking Jimbo Wales to restore his page (i.e. edit the content) contrary to the wishes of the wikipedia community - which determined that it should be deleted in an MfD. If Jimbo did so, and his actions were deemed to have been done as a "WMF trustee" there would be consequences for the WMF as a "provider". Thus, this forum is the wrong place for this request. It should be in deletion review (as has already been suggested). Or the writer should use Google Sites or some other way to "publish" his material. Although one has the right of Free Speech, one does not have the right to require any forum (meaning locations, websites, public places, televisions stations, etc.) to carry ones speech. He can carry on his speech just fine elsewhere. It is clear that the community decided against carrying this material. The irony is that this complaint is likely to move community opinion against carrying this material rather than to influence it to support an undeletion. --Trödel 23:00, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Trodel, I think it may be you that is uninformed - at least insofar as understanding the separate implications of any free speech protections and the section 230 status of the Wikimedia Foundation. The original poster seemed to posit a 'right to free speech' - using the American constitution as a basis for that right. That is simply not true - there is no constitutional right to free speech on private property not your own, or right to freedom from limitations on speech in a private context. Obviously there is some complexity in terms of the definition of "private property", but generally speaking... rights guaranteed in the US constitution are written to prevent (or require) government action only. The Section 230 status is something apart. The Wikimedia Foundation does not directly publish or endorse any content, it provides the hosting service (and myriad other non-content services). The Misplaced Pages community, on the other hand, is empowered to control the content of the Misplaced Pages project. Editors on Misplaced Pages have the privilege of editing as long as that privelege is not revoked by the "agents" of the community (administrators). There is no legal right at stake. Avruch 23:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I apologize for being so sloppy.

There are two issues (1) whether there is a free speech right to have your stuff included on Misplaced Pages, (2) the assertion that one shouldn't complain because the Wikimedia Foundation has the free speech right to include whatever they want on their servers.

I was responding to (2) "A treaty cannot trump the US Constitution. The US Constitution guarantees freedom of speech (and, thus, the right of the Wikimedia Foundation to use their own server to say what they want to say and not say what they don't want to say)." This is not a good argument, in my mind of why the info should not be included. I responded poorly - I was taking issue with two things - (a) that treaties have no authority to modify US law - the conflict of laws question when a treaty is in conflict with the US Constitution is a difficult one, and (b) that the WMF is deciding what to include on a case by case basis - they are not.

Yes the WMF owns the servers and can decide what they want to do with them. They have decided to be a "provider" and set up rules that allows what can and can not be included - defining a community - however they do not make individual content decisions - they leave that up to the community. Thus there is no "right" to have your stuff on Misplaced Pages - as you clearly state, "there is no constitutional right to free speech on private property not your own, or right to freedom from limitations on speech in a private context."

As you more eloquently explain, "The Misplaced Pages community, on the other hand, is empowered to control the content of the Misplaced Pages project. Editors on Misplaced Pages have the privilege of editing as long as that privelege is not revoked by the "agents" of the community (administrators). There is no legal right at stake."

Thanks for your clarification --Trödel 01:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the responses above, but I think it's simpler than that: the OP has a constitutional right to free speech, but the Wikimedia Foundation has no corresponding obligation to host it for him at the Foundation's expense, and that would not change whatever Jimbo did either as an individual or acting ex' officio. Consider: one may claim free speech in writing a slogan on a wall, but the right to free speech is not infringed if the owner subsequently chooses to remove the writing. Nor is the right to free speech infringed if a newspaper chooses not to print a letter even if it contains protected speech. I am sure there are other, better analogies too. Historically, demands to have Misplaced Pages host content not in line with its mission on the basis of the First Amendment have proven spectacularly unpersuasive. Guy (Help!) 20:52, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Apovolot, I hope you realize that the First Amendment in the United States protects citizens from the government, not from other individuals or entities. Kingturtle (talk) 21:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

America.... yeah.... America... rings a bell... you had a little election recently or something? ..... I'm sure I've heard of it..... maybe not. Could have been Armenia on second thoughts..... Yeah - that was it!!! *sigh* When will America realise there is life beyond their borders? Not soon apparently. Pedro :  Chat  22:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, in fairness, the Wikimedia Foundation is a United States corporation based in California. So, if the original poster was correct that something on English Misplaced Pages violated the law in the United States that would certainly be a serious problem. Moot, of course, since the original poster was wrong.

JzG - not sure your summary is entirely accurate. Or it is, but perhaps not in the way you mean - anyone can claim any right they like, but that doesn't mean it applies. "Protected speech" refers to speech that the government cannot suppress (i.e., almost all speech in its many forms). If government property or regulations are not involved, then the assertion of a right has no meaning and can be freely ignored. Avruch 22:49, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Regarding something...

I recently recieved an email from somebody, requesting that this page be deleted because it reveals unwanted personal information. Can you delete it please, to resolve the problem? Thanks. -- 92.9.247.207 (talk) 20:00, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I think anyone would need a lot more than you've stated here. First, how have you been emailed if you don't have an account? Second, that is a complex but inconclusive SSP report from which it appears nothing has followed. Third, this is not the sort of thing that Jimbo usually gets involved in. If it's a problem, why not ask here? --Rodhullandemu 21:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Support deletion. Please delete the page. It really does offend him. -- 92.17.56.95 (talk) 17:00, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Nope, sorry, why doesn't he say that himself? Are there are WP:BLP concerns? Why doesn't he, or you, nominate for deletion? I see you've courtesy blanked the page. This is not proper process, but I will copy this to WP:AN for you. --Rodhullandemu 17:10, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Transition to CC-BY-SA

What is going on on the front to move Misplaced Pages to CC-BY-SA? As the GFDL 1.3 does not allow the transition to CC-BY-SA of GFDL material from external sources added after November 1, 2008, every day that passes makes more work to find and remove any integrated text if and when the transition takes place. Even if there are other issues that must be seen to before the transition can officially take place MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning can be changed immediately to say "You irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the terms o the GFDL and CC-BY-SA". This will make it that when the transition does take place only November (and three days of December) would have to be reviewed for external GFDL contributions. To me, this seems like a no-brainer, and I'd make the change myself, but I'm afraid I'd be lynched. Jon513 (talk) 23:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I see no need for the change - the GFDL allows migration to CC-BY-SA (as of version 1.3) so by licensing under the GFDL, they are agreeing to license it under CC-BY-SA. Dendodge Talk 23:18, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I recommend emailing Erik Moeller; I believe he is in charge at the Foundation of the migration discussion. I confess that due to my recent work on other issues, I have lost the plot on the transition and I don't quite know where we stand.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 00:05, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

This particular issue was discussed in detail on the WikiEn-L mailing list. As it turns out, the volume of material added under normal circumstances that would be excluded by the terms of GFDL 1.3 is extremely small (it is not new material that is GFDL, but material that was previously released somewhere else that was licensed GFDL). The point of the provision was to prevent the wholesale addition of GFDL content once the transition to CC-BY-SA was announced with the express purpose of converting the license of that material. Otherwise, Dendodge is right - requiring people to dual license new material is unnecessary, since the text of the GFDL allows migration to GFDL 1.3 and the text of GFDL 1.3 allows migration to CC-BY-SA. Avruch 22:54, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

HPJoker complaint

HPJoker got temp banned a day or so ago for Uncivility. Earlier today he got his ban extended to an indefinite ban and has proof that it was not him "avoided" his ban with another IP. The IP he was using at 20:22, 2 December 2008 was 161.97.198.130. This is an IP for Fairview High School. He used an IP Tracer to find the location of the IP that added insults to Atlantabravz talk page while Joker was at school. The tracer said that it was a New York City IP. He explains it on the bottom of his talk page. He wishes that with this evidence that he can get the indef ban taken off. FYI the IP Tracer he used was this, just in case you want to try the IPs. It's basically...

161.97.198.130 A Fairview IP Address

74.50.119.142 IP address mistaken to be HPJoker

76.120.0.210 HPJoker's real IP address

Try out those IPs in the tracer above if you want to. You can reply on HPJoker's Talk Page. Thank you. 24.37.32.193 (talk) 03:28, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't be the right person to deal with something like this. Any admin should be able to help you.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 13:20, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Could you recommend one? This is Joker again using another school IP address. I've been close with jj and he is on a wikibreak, so he can't exactly help me out. Blueboy96 is convinced that the New York IP is mine, which of course it is not as I reside in Boulder, Colorado. I write an MLB off season news thing on my userpage and would like to get back to it. I just feel like that justice should be served and since you're the head man and are kind enough to take time out of your day to reply to these messages, I was wondering if you could do something about it. I don't know for sure, but Blueboy probably has my user and talk page on his watchlist. I have left several messages on my talk page asking to talk to him and he won't respond. 161.97.198.68 (talk) 17:05, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I go to Fairview! 75.166.85.36 (talk) 17:50, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, how do you know HPJoker to be making this appeal for him? MBisanz 18:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Joker again. I don't know who that is. So he/she can't exactly make an appeal for me. 161.97.198.79 (talk) 19:44, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

This sounds like something that requires CheckUser assistance.--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 06:04, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Joker once again at school. Go ahead fine with me. I just want that IP that is from New York to be traced by an admin like I did above so I can prove my innocence. The 72 hours are up and I am eager to get back to my free agency news on my user page. 161.97.199.39 (talk) 15:53, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

74.50.119.142 is an anonymizing proxy service, so any IP check findings would be inconclusive. Further discussion on user talk:HPJoker, please. Thatcher 18:53, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Talk:2008 Canadian political dispute

Hi Jimbo, I'm not asking for your intervention or anything, just wanted to point you to one of the most trenchant and rapidly-evolving discussions and associated articles in Canadian Misplaced Pages history.....as in a long-ago post here, my main observation is about the vibrancy and resilience of Misplaced Pages's community in patrolling for untruth and propaganda and "information war". I've been accused of blogging on this page, and granted I am a long-winded and sometimes colourfully-tongued bastard, but it's because there have been so many attempts to distort facts and misrepresent them and also to give equal weight to lies as if they were "balance" to the truth. This article and the associated debate are something to be proud of in Misplaced Pages-culture terms; a demonstration of the utility of Misplaced Pages in building a record of public events/debate as a function of a democratic society; Misplaced Pages takes a lot of heat in media jokes/put-downs but at times like this it's breathtaking in its cogency and communal/consensual nature. Get yourself a coffee (I recommend tossing some whiskey in it instead of cream, it's a long read) and sit yourself down to the whole page, and keep an eye on it as the day evolves - "it ain't over 'til it's over, and we haven't even met the fat lady yet" - the "crisis" is on hold at this very moment as the decision we've all been speculating/debating on that page is pending - by the minute. Don't expect to understand the crisis; we, as Canadians, don't really either - we're trying to sort it out, which is what the talkpage is a reflection of. Some aspects of what's going on are very disturbing, as has the degree by which partisan Cyber warfare has become all too evident across a whole swathe of Canadian Misplaced Pages articles....we can be frustrated about it; as far as Misplaced Pages's role in it, you should be proud....Skookum1 (talk) 16:08, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Citability

Hey Jimbo I am unaware as to the politics of wikipedia at this time but I was wondering if you could take a look at this; I truly believe it could fundamentally change wikipedia.--GlasGhost (talk) 20:17, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I recommend that you look at the Flagged Revisions extension which has been recently adopted in German Misplaced Pages and which I think will be adopted in English and most other languages over the next year. It may be in some ways usable for what you are proposing.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 23:42, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Whilst I think this is a great step forward, a comment made here raises a red flag; that editor claims that it can take up to three weeks for changes to a flagged revision to cause a new version to become publicly viewable. That's OK for articles with slow, and minor, changes; unfortunately, we do seem to tolerate a culture of allowing articles to reflect current events, when that is better dealt with by Wikinews. One day, if I ever have the spare time, I will do a thorough search through the database for "currently" and "as of now", and other meaningless terms, and cull them without mercy. That's not the way an encyclopedia should be written. Sadly, even doing that will not remove that particular problem because of the myriad ways of reportage. Meanwhile, I don't know how many active editors there are on de:wiki and how much effort is being directed towards flagged revisions; but I hope that when we get it on en:wiki, there is a move to recruit editors to look after it. When I started here, I cut my teeth on new page patrol and the wikification project- reviewing flagged revisions would be a similarly useful experience-gathering exercise for new, good editors. --Rodhullandemu 00:04, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I was unaware of the flagged revisions maybe I should post there, thank you. --GlasGhost (talk) 20:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

CheckUser

Looks like you re-granted yourself CheckUser two weeks ago and still haven't "returned" the bit. Are you planning on keeping it going forward? (Just general curiosity. :-) Cheers. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:18, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Second time you've asked this recently; is there any reason why Jimbo's retention would be a problem? --Rodhullandemu 00:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I'll stop asking when he answers. ;-) The retention is unusual; in the past, his CU access has only been temporary, and I'm simply curious if there has been a change in trend or it was simply an oversight. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:48, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

The last time Jimbo temporarily enabled himself with CheckUser and then unenabled I commented that if he were able to do so then it would be more transparent if he retained the flag; he has the capability to use the tool as and when it is required, so why not be listed as such. It isn't as if he will be then expected to be available to run CU's upon request, there are enough requests on this page for dispute resolutions, sanctions of editors/sysops, and such that he either does not respond to redirects to a more appropriate venue - CU enquiries can be dealt with similarly. In other words, I think he should retain the tools and be noted as doing so. LessHeard vanU (talk) 13:34, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Keeping it this time was because I had a feeling I was going to need to do a few more; as it turned out, I didn't. It's more or less irrelevant since I can get it whenever I want it. The point is, I mostly don't want it. There are other people better situated to do checkuser work, and it wouldn't make sense for me to start doing it often. However there are some special cases where I think I'd better take a look for myself.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:42, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Just a thought,

but do you consider this an acceptable reason for opposing an rfa? PXK /_C 03:15, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it is likely that Jimbo would (or reasonably could) do anything about it. If you really think it is an issue, I would suggest asking a bureaucrat, since they are effectively in charge of RFAs. J.delanoy_adds 04:17, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Just to answer the question, I very much do think that's an acceptable reason to oppose an RfA.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:38, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok Jimbo, all I wanted to know. PXK /_C 14:39, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

So people can't say what they think now? It's just an opinion and userpages usually contain all sorts of opinions. -- Mentisock 16:15, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Of course people can say what they think. And other people can note that being openly partisan is in many ways inconsistent with being a Misplaced Pages admin, and likely to cause trouble, and choose to oppose on that basis. (Or, if they think that being openly partisan is a good thing, they can choose to support on that basis.)--Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:37, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Even though I agree with that userbox, I don't broadcast it across the internet - I try to hide it (something which, by typing this, I have failed at). If a user is willing to shout their beliefs on their userpage, they cannot be trusted not to adhere to those beliefs while editing articles. Dendodge Talk 16:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Question re:Arbcom appointments

I have a quick question, just for curiosity's sake. When you're examining the final tallies from ACE2008, do you place more weight on the standings when sorted by net support, %support, raw support (eg. support without considering oppose numbers), or some combination? _D.D.J.Jameson 15:51, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I have traditionally looked at %support, and looked at the others carefully to see if they indicate anything particularly interesting or alarming. Another thing I have always looked at is %support by admins because if there is a major deviation between admin support and more general support, this could indicate a number of different kinds of problems. (For example: an external campaign by an activist group attempting to influence the election. For example: a rift between admins and some significant constituency of non-admin users.) As people often say "voting is evil" so what I am looking for is a consensus. And I'm most interested in a consensus of the thoughtful.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:35, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Do you ever foresee yourself appointing a non-admin who garners a significant amount of support to the committee, or is non-admin status a deal breaker in your mind? To be candid, I ask because in my time here, I've grown to love this project, and would love to some day stand for election. However, I don't have a ton of interest in seeking the tools, so I was wondering if non-admin status was a deal breaker to the final arbiter of who is appointed to the committee. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Regards, _D.D.J.Jameson 20:51, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

It is not likely to happen, and it would give me pause, but only pause. I don't see any reason why not.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:02, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Would it give you pause simply because of the initial level of implied community trust that an RfA offers, or for some other reason? I'm very glad to notice, though, that you're not closed to the possibility, as one never knows which way this project's winds might blow. Thanks again for your time, as I know you must be an incredibly busy person. _D.D.J.Jameson 21:07, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

It would just be pretty unusual, I think. I'd be curious why it happened. There are plenty of good reasons possible.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:19, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Interesting, thanks. I'm curious how you arrive at % support among administrators,since voters don't identify themselves by status.Woonpton (talk) 20:48, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Usually someone calculates this for me. It's really easy to find out if someone is an admin or not, so it is easy to compute this. Just FYI, traditionally there have only been extremely minor variations.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:02, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I would imagine whoever does it uses some faster version of importScript('User:Splarka/sysopdectector.js');

, script that detects if particular account has a certain userrights flag. MBisanz 21:04, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

It is disappointing that votes of users who concentrate on content and who have no desire to be administrators, may not be weighed equally with the vote of administrators. I hope that is not the result of your decision process. If it may be, I urge you to consider the implications of that and the message it sends, and rethink your views. Kablammo (talk) 21:32, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Question

In the website Uncyclopedia,I've found an user called Jimbo wales,is that really you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.12.50.155 (talk) 17:30, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I am user Jimbo Wales at Uncyclopedia.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:05, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Peter Damian

Hello, this is a courtesy post to let you know I've initiated a motion at RFAR to ask Arbcom to look at allowing user:Peter Damian to edit mainspace whilst abiding by the rest of the restrictions he agreed with User:Thatcher. kind regards --Joopercoopers (talk) 21:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)