Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 07:21, 26 March 2008

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Old messages are at

• User talk:Giano II/archive 1 (2004)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 2 (2005)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 3 (2005)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 4 (2006)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 5 (2006)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 6 (2007)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 7 (2007)
• User talk:Giano II/archive 8 (2008)

Essay: A few thoughts on writing Featured Articles

Protection at Vintagekits

Just letting you know I've fully protected User:Vintagekits for three days. Since the talk page in this case probably isn't an ideal location for discussion, I started a thread at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard#Brief protection at User:Vintagekits. Will leave everybody I see as involved in the dispute the same message. Feel free to comment. :) – Luna Santin (talk) 09:56, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

The talk page is far from ideal, it's protected. Giano (talk) 10:04, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Are

you on some kind of probation? --Damifb (talk) 16:41, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure you will find all you need to know on my user page. Yes, I am, but I regard the Arbcom as incompetent, spiteful and vengeful and altogether rather stupid, so I am ignoring it; and if you want to see further damage done by this apology for an Arbcom see here if they had one scrap of moral fibre between them, at least half would have resigned by now. It seems they don't. Giano (talk) 22:34, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

• and as I said their poor judgement only leads to this sort of ridiculous disruptive waste of time , , but of course that is their determined intention. They really do need to be replaced. Giano (talk) 09:53, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

and two very accurate explanations of our Arbcoms miserable, pathetic and failed logic is here Giano (talk) 22:54, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

London, or London, England

Perhaps you want to talk it out on the talk page instead of calling it trolling. No Wikipedian should call a well made edit "daft", especially not one on civility parole. I have thick skin, but I hate to think that you might treat other Wikipedians with such contempt.

I don't think it is a good idea to assume the reader knows the subject before they have read it. Sometimes people look things up in the encyclopedia because they are ignorant of a fact. _(1 == 2) 22:48, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I suppose you will argue next that in 1789 the guillotine was errected in Paris, Illinois? London is London! Giano (talk) 23:04, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Don't be silly... everybody knows it was Paris, Texas. *Dan T.* (talk) 23:13, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

That isn't the point. IMO location by country should always be a priority in any article, and letting our readers (many of whom are hopefully uneducated third world children) know that is absolutely necessary and I wouldn't expect guillotine not to mention France in the opening either. Thanks, SqueakBox 23:16, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

• It is an Americanism to keep announcing precise geographical locations after every town, and it is certainly not needed after London, in a page referring to its great fire. Do we say in Europe "Washington, America"? - No we do not, so in a page about a major European city we credit the reader with minor intelligence. Giano (talk) 23:21, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

But we - the rest of the world - do tend to say Washington, D.C., though. Rockpocket 04:50, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Ah Rockpocket, exrending your fields of interest I see. I had no idea you were interested in incendiary history. Giano (talk) 09:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I call them when I see them, Giano, and your talk page is such fun to read. As it happens, I agree with you that London, England is not really required (why not London, Britain or London, United Kingdom?) Our readers may be ignorant, but if they don't know where it is, surely they can just click on the damn thing and all will be revealed in the very first line. Rockpocket 17:36, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

It is fun to read isn't it - I quite fall of my chair with mirth some evenings. Giano (talk) 17:42, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

So "mirth" is what they are calling it these days. Rockpocket 17:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Well I don't agree, and I certainly don't think that if it is an American concept that that makes any difference. Do not underestimate the level of ignorance in the world, there is nothing more irritating that any article that fails to locate itself geographically, and I for one will keep editing to repair this wherever I find it. Mistaking one London for another is simply not the poiont. Thanks, SqueakBox 23:30, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, isn't that why we do all that wiki-linking? So someone can click on "London" and find out all about where exactly London is? Isn't that one of the things that makes us different from a dead-trees encyclopedia? Oops, how presumptive of me. Risker (talk) 23:29, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, we get more precise than that, geographically speaking... we've got templates to add precise geographical coordinates so that you specify the latitude and longitude of the place you're referring to, to six decimal places if you want. That proves to be very useful for things like the new software for the iPhone that shows you WP articles relevant to your current location, as well as Google Earth's layer that shows clickable purple balls at spots that have an article on them. It's because of gadgets like that that I've become obsessed lately with getting those geo-coordinates in every article that they possibly make sense in... which in turn has gotten me out of the wikidrama rut I've been in for the last year or so and back to actually doing something useful to improve the encyclopedia. *Dan T.* (talk) 23:52, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

...and, seeing tonight's 60 Minutes piece on the Svalbard Global Seed Vault made me want to find its exact coordinates to get them in the article, but I see somebody's done it already... how accurate is the location given there? Will it be sufficient to let future archaeologists find it after some global catastrophe, if they have a dump of the Misplaced Pages article? *Dan T.* (talk) 00:12, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

London. Or in American, "London, period". ¶ I read: there is nothing more irritating that any article that fails to locate itself geographically There's no accounting for irritation: for me, what's most irritating is misinformation, and the likelihood that anything and everything in Misplaced Pages could well be wrong. ¶ As for talk of geographical coordinates to six decimal places, I do understand how this could be useful for "smart" bombing and so forth (and conceivably articles on specific buildings), but I look forward to its use for such entities as London (or "London, Britain" or whatever) as this will supply me with an extension of the (presumably unintended) amusement I derive from city populations specified to the nearest person. -- Hoary (talk) 09:33, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I would have thought it perfectly obvious when linking to the fire of a medieval city, presided over by Charles II of England which is linked to singularly as London that one actually meant "the London", not some other obscure town no one has ever heard of, let alone been to called London, Arkansas. Anyway the problem now seems tobe solved, hopefully to the satisfaction of out more geographically and historically confused American cousins. Giano (talk) 09:44, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Not a good way to read an encyclopedia though, having to click on a link to find out where London is. BTW the UK didn't exist in 1666. Thanks, SqueakBox 17:41, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

That is very true Squeeky, but London most certainly did. Giano (talk) 17:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

You know, it's ironic that there is another city called London not 200 km from where I sit, but here in Canada (and Europe, and Australasia, and Asia) when we say "London" we mean the one where the fire happened. When we want to talk about our local London and there is any chance the meaning would be ambiguous, we add modifiers. Risker (talk) 17:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

It seems to me we had very much this same discussion at Talk:Syracuse/Archive_1 and Talk:Syracuse/Archive_2, in which Syracuse had to be "Syracuse, Sicily" because otherwise the groundlings would assume Syracuse, New York, it was strenuously asserted. And I a New Yorker, too. Imagine how humiliating. --Wetman (talk) 20:30, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Ah Mr Wetman, but has that sorted the annomalies? I assume you are referring to Sarausa, Pruvincia di Sarausa, shame I never saw that debate earlier, because where else would Syracusa be, but Sicilia, Italia.

This proves my point, methinks, hbecause I certainly had never heard of Syracus in Italy or elsewhere till just now. Thanks, SqueakBox 21:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

An pray where did you imagine the first American to name a town Syracuse had found the name? I assume you had heard of London? (the large town in England)? Is geography not taught in American schools? Giano (talk) 21:25, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea what they teach in American schools. I grew up ooh 25 miles from the origianl London, so I do know where it is, but the point is not confusing Syracuse or London with somewhere in North America but that I didn't know where any Syracuse was and I imagine I am writing for people who may not know where any London's are (especially when you consider that these articles maybe being translated into multiple languages). I am motivated to write for the ignorant not the already knwoledgeable23:54, 24 March 2008 (UTC). Thanks, SqueakBox

These geographic clauses following each plave name rather dfeat the pont of the blue link, I strongly feel that the original place names should be allowed to stand alone. However, don't worry, I'm not about to make a campaign of it, I have a much bigger fish to fry at the moment. Giano (talk) 00:05, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Arbcom?

Interested in your views on Arbcom. They made a ruling in a case I was involved in - that terminology cannot be applied to a historical event unless the exact terminology was used at the time of the event (despite the terminology not existing back then) - even if the event meets precisely the modern definition of such terminology. This you may or may not find interesting; though I guess you are forbidden to comment by the geniuses above at Arbcom. Sarah777 (talk) 23:01, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Had a quick look, too late at night for my small brain to grasp, give it to me in a nutshell, and I'll take a look in the morning. Giano (talk) 23:18, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Had a quick look - List of monarchs in the British Isles sounds like something straight from Narnia, or that boring book with the hobbits. In spite of this Sceptred Isle being famously sceptered, I feel its monarchs and their relations are very well covered, and will survive without any help from me. Giano (talk) 11:31, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Nuance and understanding are not at the fore of ArbCom membership. Being selected is. Imagine the fun the people editing James I of England would have if they could not say "homosexual" because the word did not exist until the 19th century and the category did not exist until the 20th. It appears now there is a fishing expedition at user talk:Geogre to try to find some charge. Apparently, there is some kind of odd game of semantics making the rounds. Looks like he's ninety percent gone from Misplaced Pages out of boredom or disgust, and some people are mistaking that for weakness or disfavor. Utgard Loki (talk) 17:02, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

John254...

I understand why you could be upset at john, but this is a little disapointing. I saw it as some kind of threat - you should know that taking things elsewhere isn't what we do here. I personally have a lot of respect for you and I honestly thought you were way above this - just take a step back and think about things for a minute. Ryan Postlethwaite 23:20, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

You have absolutely no respect for me at all so don't be so bloody hypocritical. By elsewhere I mean of course IRC, isn't that where you and all your buddies and the Arbs hang out, and where if we want to discover the truth concerning Misplaced Pages we are all forced to go these days? You see Ryan, I will get to the bottom of this, the very bottom, and if one way draws a blank, I shall go in another direction. I know the truth, all I have to do is prove it. Giano (talk) 23:25, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Palladian vs Rococco architecture

I was reading this evening and came across a reprint of a copper engraving of the Winter Palace. My first impression was that it was vaguely palladian in its style — the pillars, the portico-like entrance, the long narrow building — but it appears from our article on the palace that I was wrong, and it is rococo (not one of our better articles, I'm afraid - very disorganized and somewhat confusing), which in turn appears to be an offshoot of baroque architecture. Having "followed the links" further, I agree that Winter Palace more closely resembles Sanssouci, particularly in its ornamentation. What, besides the ornamentation, differentiates rococo architecture from palladianism? I have a feeling I am missing something rather major here that simply isn't clear in the articles. Risker (talk) 03:40, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of which, the Winter Palace article is in such a dire shape. If Giano and Ghirla would ever be able to put aside some time and bring it to a decent condition. Maybe Ghirla would even consider a comeback, even a temporary one :( But seriously, I would help with Russian sources if Giano would be willing to work on the article and Ghirla would not join. But I know they are both busy enough. So, no pressure. --Irpen 05:44, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking of doing a re-write of it ages ago - I's worked very well with Ghirlandajo in the past, but I suspect like me he won't want to. Especially, as it now seems pages are FARC'd if the author/s does not want to include erronious fact just so thay can have a cite . Giano (talk) 07:14, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh for pity's sake. The reference sources were crummy and not all of them were available for those working to ref the article; it won't be an issue for any articles you write today, because you're doing the inline referencing as you go now. Heck, I'd be happy if you just cleaned up Rococo so that it was understandable. Rewriting the Winter Palace article would be fantastic, though - something to keep you busy until Husond gets his hands on the Pena Palace books. Risker (talk) 07:41, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Ah! I'd come here to ask that - is everything on hold until then? Giano that exploded cutaway is very pretty and interesting, but not very good for extracting floor plates from. --Joopercoopers (talk) 12:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

• Think of Palladianism as a square plain fruit cake - Baroque as a round fruit cake with frosting and a few sugar roses - and Rococo as a round strawberry souflee disguised as a wedding cake. Giano (talk) 13:01, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid if we can now only use references available to all 5 million editors, and every page has to be written by a committee in agreement on each fact then the future looks pretty bleak. Furthermore, I don't need keeping busy, I have a very omportant research job on go the moment. Giano (talk) 08:01, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Kannada literature

Hi Giano, remember me from my last FAC? Well now I have the above article in FAC. Tony1 objected to the prose and Taxman wanted more info on certian issues (which I am working on). If you are available, I think your experience will help in better organizing, presenting and polishing this article. If you are busy, can you point me to someone who could help me. I left messages for users: Awadewit and Willow, but with no luck. thanks.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 21:43, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Whoo hoo hooo, if Tony1 is being bloody on the prose, I shall take to the hills, but I'll have a look, but to be quite honest Kannada literaure...I don't suppose by any slim chance it's a mispelling of Canada? - No I thought not. Giano (talk) 22:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks.:)Dineshkannambadi (talk) 22:48, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

No Doc!

No Doc, like so many in that channel, you misunderstand - I'm only nterested in those who are ex-admins and non-admins in the channel. Thanks for the info though. ,ost kind. Giano (talk) 23:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe anyone has researched the list you're after, however if you check the access list against the admin log, you'll get there.--Doc 23:56, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

You are behind the times, Ryan is coughing the names as we speak - well almost. Giano (talk) 23:58, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Please see here

You have been blocked for 31 hours for repeated incivility at User_talk:FloNight and other locations in breach of the recent Arbitration ruling.

Please see Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement for details.

FT2  02:16, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

And you think this will keep my logs and questions under wraps - Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear. Giano (talk) 07:07, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) No, but it may reduce incivility on the wiki, which is necessary and appropriate, and which I ask you deeply to consider. Nobody - arbitrator, admin commenting, or bystander, has asked you to change views. The issue here is that the areas the community has strong agreement on, include civility. That's less about what you wish to say, than how you say it. Having strong views, is okay. Having questions (as you describe) - if asked appropriately and with good faith in your wording, and without gaming the system and trying to test the envelope, is self-evidently okay. But incivility - explicit, implied, or subtle - is not okay. FT2  07:21, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I have copied the #wikipedia-en-admins access list into your userspace. See User:Giano II/access list. Everyone on that list has access to the channel. Just to give one example entry:

• -ChanServ- 20 5 Betacommand 3h 19m 55s

This is the entry for user:Betacommand. The number immediately preceeding his name (5, in this case) is his access level -- the higher the number, the more things he can do. 5 is required to get into the channel (or, more precisely, to invite yourself into the channel). The time code following the name is the amount of time, in days/hours/minutes/seconds, since that user logged into the channel. Raul654 (talk) 07:21, 26 March 2008 (UTC)